Shorthand Minutes of the
54th Conference of the Central Planning Board
Subject: Labor Supply
on Wednesday, March 1st, 1944, 10 o'clock at the Ministry for Air Transport
Sauckel: Field Marshal, Gentlemen, it goes without saying that we shall satisfy as far as possible the demands agreed upon by the Central Planning Board. In this connection I wish to state that I call such deliveries as can be made by the Plenipotentiary for Labor "possible" by stressing every nerve of his organization. Already on January 4th I had to report to the Fuehrer with the
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greatest regret that for the first time I was not in a position to guarantee delivery of the grand total of 4,050,000 men then calculated in the Fuehrer's Headquarters for the year 1944. In the presence of the Fuehrer I emphasized this several times. In the previous years I was able to satisfy the demands, at least with regard to the number of laborers, but this year I am no longer able to guarantee them in advance. In case I can deliver only a small number, I should be glad if those arriving would be distributed by percentage within the framework of your program. Of course I shall readily agree if I am now told by the Board: Now we have to change the program; now this or that is more urgent. It goes without saying that we will satisfy the demands whatever they may be, to the best of our ability, with due regard to the war situation. So much about figures!
We have no reason to contest the figures as such, for we ask nothing for ourselves. We are not even able to do anything with the laborers we collect; we only put them at the disposal of industry. I only wish to make some general statements and ask for your indulgence.
In autumn of last year the supply program, inasmuch as it concerns supply from abroad was frustrated to a very great extent; I need not give the reasons in this circle; we have talked enough about them, but I have to state: The program has been smashed. People in France, Belgium, and Holland thought that labor was no longer to be directed from these countries to Germany because the work now had to be done within these countries themselves. For months—sometimes I visited these countries twice within a month—I have been called a fool who against all reason travelled around in these countries in order to extract labor. This went so far, I assure you, that all prefectures in France had general orders not to satisfy my demands since even the German authorities quarreled over whether or not Sauckel was a fool.
If one's work is smashed in such a way, repair is very very difficult. Now for the first time I have been reproached by officers stationed in the East, vhich was very hard on me, that it was the Plenipotentiary for Labor who did not extract enough men from the East during the last year and thus was responsible if now our soldiers had to fight against the same men whom I should have taken away; for these had become an essential part of the Russian divisions. Thus I have been reproached several times by front officers; and I wish to protest here and now. For the East last year was barred to me. In large areas I was forbidden to take anything from agriculture. I was told: You don't get any
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men since we have to organize agriculture here, the Donets area too was barred to me, and I was not allowed ii, extract anything. I had to struggle hard for every individual man whom I wished to extract from the East. Therefore I wish to state expressly here and now that the reproaches made by the front that the men whom I did not extract now fight on the side of the enemy are unjust, since I was entirely kept orit of these areas. Such was the situation at the end of the year.
At that time I was very much concerned: we discovered a decrease in the amount of labor employed. Today I am able to report that we stopped that decrease. According to most accurate statistics, which I had ordered, we have today again including foreign workers and prisoners of war, the same number of 29.1 millions which we had in September. But we have added nothing since that time. Thus we dispatched to the Reich in those two months no more than 4,500 Frenchmen which amounts to nothing. From Italy only 7,000 civilians arrived. This, although from 1.12 until today I have had no hour, no Sunday, and no night for myself. I have visited all these countries and travelled through the whole Reich. My work was terribly difficult, but not for the reason that no more workers are to be found. I wish to state expressly, in France and in Italy there are still rflen galore. The situation in Italy is nothing but a European scandal, the same applies to a certain extent to France. Gentlemen, the French work badly and support themselves at the expense of the work done by the German soldier and laborer, even at the expense of the German food supply, and the'same applies to Italy. I found out during my last stay that the food supply of the northern Italians cannot suffer any comparison with that of the southern Italians. The northern Italians, viz. as far to the south as Rome are so well nourished that they need not work; they are nourished quite differently from the German nation by their Father in Heaven without having to work for their bread. The labor reserves exist but the means of touching them have been smashed.
The most abominable point made by my adversaries is their claim that no executive had been provided within these areas in order to recruit in a sensible manner the Frenchmen, Belgians, and Italians and to dispatch them to work. Thereupon I even proceeded to employ and train a whole batch of French male and female agents who for good pay just'as was done in olden times for "shanghaiing" went hunting for men. and made them drunk by using liquor as well as words, in order to dispatch them to Germany. Moreover I charged some able men with founding a
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special labor supply executive of our own, and this they did by training and arming with the help of the Higher SS & Police Fuehrer a number of natives, but I still have to ask the Munitions Ministry for arms for the use of these men. For during last year alone several dozens of very able labor executive officers have been shot dead. All these means I have to apply, grotesque as it sounds, to refute the allegation there was no executive to bring labor to Germany from these countries.
I have to tell you, Field Marshal, after repeated inquiry: There is no longer a genuine German direction of labor. I have just issued the well known proclamation which the Fuehrer himself had inspired, corrected, and adapted concerning voluntary honorary service. What success this step will have, I don't know yet; it will be very little. But I shall enlarge this voluntary honorary service. The Fuehrer wishes it to be administered exclusively by the Women's Service. Therefore I shall go tomorrow and see the Women's Service and the Women District Leaders of the Women's Service of Germany, in order to insist on the most extensive recruitment by the Women's Service of women above the ages of 45 and 50 years. Something will be attained in that way. There are quite good beginnings in some of the districts. But recruitment must be continuous and uninterrupted, and such things need some time before they run smoothly. Out of the German labor reservoir, however, 60,000 new laborers have been found in the first two months of the year, and the start as a whole has functioned better than I expected. The grand total so far is 262,000. Of these from the East alone there are 112,000. Thus the satisfactory statement can be made that the authorities in charge of what remains of the occupied areas have acknowledged the fact that better results are expected if the available labor is used in Germany than if it is used abroad. The supply of these 112,000 new Eastern workers, mainly men, has made it possible for us to hope for the arrival within the first two months of 262,000 workers.
Then some words about the question of women's labor. I have asked one of my assistants to give you later a survey comparing the English regulations on the national service of women with the German ones. It is perfectly correct to state that England, even if we take into account the difference in the total number available, does not use as many of her women as we do. One ought to abstain therefore from the reproach which is still made against me, that we didn't do enough with regard to the use of women's labor. On January 4th I told the Fuehrer expressly and repeat-
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edly; if he gave me the power to recruit laborers a la Stalin, 1 should be able to put at his disposal perhaps a million more women. The Fuehrer brusquely and repeatedly refused this. He used the expression that our German long-legged slender women could not be compared with the "kurz-stampfeten" [Austrian dialect term for short-legged, used in a derogatory sense] and healthy Russian women. I for my part also wish to warn against setting too much hope on the usefulness of these women. But I wish to ask you to be sure that I am doing everything in order to put to work everybody who is fit for work, as far as I am able to do within the framework of the Fuehrer's permission, and this by exercising some soft moral pressure as well. In the same way I have directed all my assistants to examine continuously the results of the action of January of last year concerning the duty to register and to make sure that the labor exchanges continuously find out and call up the women whose children grow beyond the age in question, and the girls who reach the age groups in question. Thus we do everything possible. * * *
In order to enable me to reach these numbers, two conditions must be fulfilled. First it is indispensable that all authorities which administer the occupied countries must recognize the necessity of fulfilling the demand for labor in the Reich. This so far is not the case everywh6re. Especially the protected factories in the occupied countries make my work very difficult. According to reports received within the last days these protected factories are to a great part filled to capacity, and still labor is sucked up into these areas. This strong suction very much obstructs our desire to dispatch labor to the Reich. I wish to emphasize that I never opposed the use of French labor in factories which had been transferred from Germany to France. I am still sound of mind, and as recently as last summer I charged Mr, Hildebrandt with an inquiry in France which had the following result: It would be easy to extract from French medium and small factories (80% of all French factories are small enterprises with only 36-40 working hours)—1 million laborers for use in the transferred factories, 'and 1 million more for dispatch to Germany. To use 1 million within France should be quite possible unless the protected factories in France artificially suck up the labor completely and unless their number is continually increased, as happens according to my reports especially in Belgium, and unless new categories of works are continually declared protected, so that finally no labor is left which I may use in Germany. I wish here and now to repeat my thesis: A French workman, if treated in the right way, does double the amount of work in Germany, that he
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would do in France, and he has here twice the value he has in France.
I want to state clearly and fearlessly : The exaggerated use of the idea of protected factories in connection with the labor supply from France in my submission implies a grave danger for the German labor supply. If we cannot come to the decision that my assistants, together with the armament authorities, are to comb-out every factory, this fountain of labor too in the future will remain blocked for the use of Germany, and in this case the program described to me by the Fuehrer may well be frustrated. The same applies to Italy. In either country there are enough laborers, even enough skilled workers; only we must have enough courage to step into the French plants. What really happens in France, I do not know. That a smaller amount of work is done during enemy operations in France, like in every occupied country, than is done in Germany seems to me evident. If I am to fulfill the demands which you present to me, you must be prepared to agree with me and my assistants, that the term "protected factory" is to be restricted in France to what is really necessary and feasible by reasonable men, and the protected factories are not, as the Frenchmen think, protected against any extraction of labor from them for use in Germany. It is indeed very difficult for me to be presented to French eyes ¿s a German of whom they may say: Sauckel is here stopped from acting for German armament! The term "protected factory" means in France nothing but that the factory is protected against Sauckel! This is what the Frenchmen think, and they cannot be blamed for it; for they are Frenchmen and before their eyes the Germans disagree in their opinions and actions. To what degree the creation of protected works is expedient and necessary at all is not for me to decide. I can only state how the effect of creating them touches the work expected to be done by me. On the other hand, I have grounds for hoping that I shall be just able to wriggle through, first by using my old corps of agents and my labor executive, and secondly by relying upon the measures which I was lucky enough to succeed in obtaining from the French Government. In a discussion lasting 5-6 hours I have exerted from M. Laval the concession that the death penalty will be threatened for officials endeavoring to sabotage the flow of labor supply and certain other measures. Believe me, this was very difficult. It required a hard struggle to get this through. But I succeeded and now in France Germans ought to take really severe measures, in case the French Government does not do so. Don't take it amiss, I and my assistants in fact have sometimes seen things happen in France that I
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was forced to ask: Is there no respect any more in France for the German lieutenant with his 10 men? For months every word I spoke was countered by the answer: But what do you mean, Mr. Gauleiter, you know there is no executive at our disposal; we are not able to take action in France! This I have been answered over and over again. How, then, am I to regulate the labor supply with regard to France. There is only one solution: The German authorities have to cooperate with each other, and if the Frenchmen despite all their promises do not act, then we Germans must make an example of one case, and by reason of this law if necessary put Prefect or Mayor against the wall, if he does not comply with the rules; otherwise no Frenchman at all will be dispatched to Germany. During the last quarter the belief in a German victory and in all propaganda statements which we were still able to make, has sunk below zero, and today it is still the same. I rather expect the new French ministers, especially Henriot, will act ruthlessly; they are very willing and I have a good impression of them. The question is only how far they will be able to impress their will on the subordinated authorities. Such is the situation in France. . In Italy the situation is exactly the same, perhaps rather worse. We have no executive, we are told, and the Italian nation is morally so hopelessly corrupted that only pure force gives any hope for success. '
Moreover, I am insulted, and this grieves me most, by the statement that I was responsible for the European partisan nuisance. Even German authorities reproached me thus, although they were the last ones who have the right to make such statements. I wish to protest against this slander, and I can prove that it is not I who is responsible. 'From the General District of Kiev, and this from the town itself and the near surroundings I extracted 100,000 men for labor, and in Kiev there were no partisans. The Kiev district was the quietest of all. In 1942 and 1943 I hardly extracted one man from the Minsk District, and was not able to do so, since I was to a great extent barred from this district. The Minsk district, however, was the chief partisan area, and even a Gauleiter has been murdered there. If there had been no measures of labor supply, many more partisans would be in action than there are now; for there would be many more unemployed among the foreign nations. These countries are indeed not able -to exist unless they produce the things which Europe wants from them, and since the planning of production for the whole of Europe is done exclusively and solely by Germany, all these nations are indebted to Germany alone and to nobody else for the fact that they have bread and work. The measures increasing the
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labor supply for Germany and the occupied countries therefore has the effect of giving useful work to gangs of unemployed men. If this had not been done, the gangs would have become partisans. Furthermore, partisan warfare has appeared in every Eastern revolution for centuries and Stalin did nothing but incorporate into his strategic plans in a masterly way the assistance offered by partisans of the Polish, Ukrainian, and other areas known from history. Similar considerations apply to France. I have been answered that such things never had happened in France, that it was nothing but a consequence of German labor measures that these bands made their appearance there. To which I can only reply that those who say so obviously forget the whole of France's history, e.g. what happened in the 1870-71 war. Then too franc-tireurs operated in France. Even if there were no labor measures, the English would drop arms from their planes and would certainly find unemployed willing to pick them up.
Indeed, we too commit mistakes, this is only human. I only intended to acquaint you, Air Marshal, with the actual difficulties used by enemy and German authorities alike to oppose the German labor measures. It goes without saying that the ideal solution would consist in transferring the whole of manufacturing in these countries, and, as the saying goes, in bringing the work to the workers.
Numerous German authorities, even such as had no connections with economics and labor supply, inquired of me: Why do you fetch these people to Germany at all? You make trouble for this area and render our existence there more difficult. To which I can only reply, it is my duty to insist on it that labor supply comes from abroad. There is no longer a German labor supply. That the latter is exhausted I already proved by my ill-famed manifesto of April of last year. But I am not able to transfer the German soil to France. Nor can I transfer the German traffic to France nor the German mines. Nor can I transfer > German armament works which still have to release part of their workers, if fit for war service, nor their machines. Here alone 2,500,000 men are in question as has been calculated in the Fuehrer conference. This is the flower of German workers who go to the front and must go there. I have always been one of those who say: if only energetic measures are applied in fetching labor from abroad, then we want to release in God's name everybody from armaments work whom wd can, in order to strengthen our companies. The 1st and 7th Armored Divisions are frequently mentioned in the War Report. I can only tell you that the number
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of soldiers killed in battle in some Thuringian villages has surpassed for some time already the number of soldiers killed in the World War, by twice that amount. This I mention in my capacity as Gauleiter. It is for this reason that we have to do our duty. The best kind of German men, and men in the prime of life, have to go to the front, and German women of more than 50 years of age cannot replace them. Therefore I have to continue to go to France, Belgium, Holland and Italy, and there will be a time again when I shall go to Poland and extract workers there as fit and as many of them as I can get. In this circle I only wish to urge that you spread it around that I am not quite the insane fellow I have been said to be during the last quarter of a year. Even the Fuehrer has-been told so. It goes without saying that just this slander has had the effect that I was unable to deliver in the last quarter at least l1/^ million workers whom I would have been able to deliver as long ago as last year, had the atmospheric conditions been better. It was due to that "artificial atmospheric screen", that they did not arrive. I am aware that they simply have to arrive this year. My duty to the Fuehrer, the Reich Marshal, Minister Speer, and towards you, gentlemen, and to agriculture is apparent, and I shall fulfill it. A start has been made, and as many as 262,000 new workers have arrived, and I hope and am convinced to be able to deliver the bulk of the order. How the labor is to be distributed will then have to be decided according to the needs of the whole of German industry, and I shall always be prepared to keep the closest contact with you, Gentlemen, and to charge the labor exchanges and the district labor exchanges with intimately collaborating with you. Everything is functioning if such collaboration exists.
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Milch: I now proceed to the important -question where we will Still be able to get greater amounts of laborers from you, and without a doubt the answer is, from abroad. I have asked Mr. S'chieber to make a short appearance here in order to give his opinion on Italy. I agree with your statement, Gauleiter, that it is only the bad organization of our work abroad which is responsible for the fact that you can't do your job. Too many people meddle in your work. If someone tells you, there is no executive in France and Italy, I consider it an impudence, a foolish and stupid lie uttered by people who either are unable to think or consciously state an untruth. This kind of person is not interested in giving a clear lead in this respect and in analyzing the situation, probably because he is not smart enough.' In this
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way, however, your work is rendered more difficult or frustrated] and all armament work at the same time. For we have it before our eyes what close relations exist between the situation in the occupied countries and that in the armaments industry. A more foolish policy can hardly be conceived. In case the invasion of France begins and succeeds only to a certain degree, then we shall experience a rising by partisans such as we have never experienced either in the Balkans or in the East, not because this would have happened in any case, but only because we made it possible by not dealing with them in the right manner. Four whole age groups have grown up in France, men between 18 and 23 years of age, who are therefore at that age when young people moved by patriotism of seduced by other people are ready to do anything which satisfies their personal hatred against us—and of course they hate us. These men ought to have been called up in age groups and dispatched to Germany; for they present the greatest danger which threatens us in case of invasion. I am firmly convinced and have said so several times; if invasion starts, sabotage of all railways, works, and supply bases will be a daily occurrence and then it will be really the case that our forces are no longer available to survey, the execution of our orders within the country, but they will have to fight at the front, thereby leaving in their rear the much more dangerous enemy who destroys their communications, etc.
If one had shown the mailed fist and a clear executive intention, a churchyard peace would reign in the rear of the front at the moment the uproar starts. This I have emphasized so frequently, but still nothing is happening, I am afraid. For if one intends to start to shoot at that moment, it will be too late for it; then we have no longer the men at our disposal to kill off the partisans. In the same way, we are aware of the fact that their supply of arms in the west is rather ample since the English are dropping them from planes. I consider it an idiotic statement if you, Gauleiter, are accused of having made these men into partisans. As soon as you arrive, the men run away to protect themselves from being sent to Germany. Then they are away, and since they do not know how to exist, they automatically fall into the hands of the partisan leaders; but this is not the consequence of the fact that you wish to fetch them, but of the fact that your opposite number, the executive, is not able to prevent their escape. You simply cannot act differently. The main crux of the problem is the fact that your work is made so extremely difficult, and this is why you cannot deliver the 4,050,000 workers. As long as it is feasible for these men to get away and not
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be caught by the executive, as long as the men are able not to return ^rom leave and not to be found out on the other side, I do not think Party Comrade Sauckel, that you will have a decisive success through employing your special corps. The men even then will be whisked away unless quite another authority and power is on the watch, and this can only be the army itself. The army alone can exercise effective executive authority. If some say they cannot do this kind of work, this is incorrect for within France there are Training Forces stationed in every hole and corner town and every place which could at all be used for this work. If this would be done in time, the partisan nuisance would not emerge, just as it would not have done in the East if one had only acted in time. Once I had this task at Stalingrad. At Taganrog there were then 65,000 men of the Army, and at the front one lieutenant and 6 men were actually available for each km, and they would have been only too glad if they had 20-30 for their assistance. In the rear there were a great mass of men who had retreated in time and squatted down in the villages, and who now were available neither for fighting at the front nor for fighting the partisans. I am aware that I am placing myself in opposition to my own side, but I have seen such things happen everywhere, and can find no remedy but that the army should assert itself ruthlessly. You, Gauleiter Sauckel, the Reich Marshal, and the Central Planning Board ought to report on this question to the Fuehrer, and then he ought to decide at the same time on the duties of the Military Commanders. There ought to be orders of such lucidity that they could not be misunderstood, and it is then that things will be in order. It never can be too late to do so, but these duties and this work will be more difficult to perform with every passing day. The same applies to Italy as well.
Schieber: The Gauleiter some time ago discussed this question in detail with General Leiers, and they succeeded in reaching quite a comprehensive agreement. In my opinion there are still a considerable number of people in Italy who could be extracted there, especially if it is possible, which is not for me to decide, to increase vastly the method, so much recommended by your collaborators of transferring whole firms. It was only a few days ago that 200 to 400 men were transferred together with very little difficulty. I am favoring this method especially for the reason that in my opinion it will nip in the bud any tendency to take to the woods and to become partisans. Where the Plenipotentiary for Labor transfers the entire personnel of a firm, this personnel is being transferred as an entity; this also pre-
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supposes the existence of some human solidarity between the members of that entity. The Gauleiter will meet even more difficulties in the transfer of these Italians than he has to overcome in France because the Italians have extraordinarily strong family ties. We notice this fact more all the time. One has to meet these difficulties half-way. On the whole we of the production branch in Italy are quite agreeable to extract laborers from Italy. Our collaboration with your offices is functioning without friction. We attach special importance to our desire that these workers for whom we no longer have work in Italy, ought not to be left to loaf about for too long, but ought to be caught and sent to Germany. Outside the protected factories, too, there still remains in Italy a relatively vast reservoir of labor, and if this reservoir is drawn upon in the way arranged by the Plenipotentiary for Labor by the people from the armaments authority, and by our special commissioner, if especially the problem of transfer of wages is solved, I consider the transfer of a nice amount of labor from Italy as being quite possible. I should be glad, however, if right from the beginning any discussion by offices concerned or not concerned with it, about the possible consequences of the action should be prohibited; such a discussion could only disturb the peaceful development of production in Italy.
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Sauckel: I wish to insist on combing out the protected factories in the future also, for the protected factories are working like''a suction pump; and since it is known everywhere in Italy and France that every worker if he works in a protected factory is protected against any attempt of mine to extract him, it is only too natural that the men are pouring into these factories. How ' difficult my task becomes thereby is proved by the following fact. I intended to extract from Italy a million workers within the quarter ending May 30th. Hardly 7,00(X arrived in the two months which expired so far. This is indeed the difficulty. Thé bulk enters the protected factories, and only the chaff remains for my purpose to send them to Germany. At least I hope to accomplish that with regard to larger enterprises as the number of protected factories is restricted in Italy, i.e. the number of protected factories will not be further increased.
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Sauckel: This indeed is the decisive question, the one we are dealing with now. If half of the program for 4 million workers to be brought to Germany (this means 2 million) cannot be ful-
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157 -filled, the employment of labor in Germany will fall off this year. The more useful workers, however, are in France, and of course in Italy too, employed in the protected factories. Therefore if I am not to touch the protected factories which are situated in these countries, this will have the effect that the less valuable workers instead of the more valuable type will arrive in Germany. And here we have to ponder about what is in fact more important and expedient. If we give up using these people in Germany, where we effectively rule the factories, where moreover we keep to a different labor discipline and reach better labor results than in France proper, then we give up the valuable kind, and then I shall only be able to transport to Germany the less valuable kind of people who still can be found on the streets of France or Italy, or people like waiters, hairdressers, small folk from tailor shops etc.
Milch: What is the percentage of protected factories in Italy compared with the whole of Italian labor?
Schieber: I think 14% but I have not got the figures here.
Milch: Would not the following method be better? We could take under German administration the entire food supply for the Italians and tell them: Only he gets any food who either works in a protected factory or goes to Germany.
Sauckel: True, the French worker in France is better nourished than the German worker is in Germany; and the Italian worker too, even if he does not work at all, is better nourished in the part of Italy occupied by us than if he works in Germany. This is why I asked the German food authorities over and over again to improve also the food of the German worker introducing the "factory sandwich". When I am in Paris of course I go to Maxim's. There one can experience miracles of nourishment. He still thinks that in these countries only very rich men, who can go to Maxim's are well provided with food. Thereupon I sent my assistants to the Paris suburbs, to the estaminets and lunch restaurants and was told that the Frenchmen who eat there did not feel the shortage caused by the war to any degree , comparable with what our nation has to experience. The average French citizen too can still buy everything he wishes.
(Interruption: This is still more so in small places!) Yes. Moreover, the Frenchman can pay for what he can get. Therefore he has no reason for wishing to go to Germany in order to get better food.
This unfortunately is the case.
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Milch: Is there nothing we can do? True, we might not be able to control the distribution to the customer, but we ought to be able to intervene at an earlier stage of distribution.
Koemer: We have requested from France really immense amounts of food; these requests have always been fulfilled; often after some pressure, but they have been fulfilled.
Milch: But there is a simple remedy: let us cease supplying the troops from Germany, but tell them to provide the food for themselves from France. Then in a few weeks they will have everything eaten up, and then we can start distributing the food to the Frenchmen.
Koemer: In France there still is for the time being a rationing system. The Frenchman had his ration card on which he receives the minimum. The rest he provides in other ways, partly by receiving food parcels which we cannot touch at all. Every year we increased our food demands to the French Government who always satisfied them, though very frequently yielding to pressure, and in proportion to the harvest results, were they good or bad. In Italy the situation is that food is not rationed at all. The Italian can buy and eat what he wants, and since an Italian has always money and deals in the black market, he is in much better situation than our German worker who practically has nothing but what he gets on his card.
Milch: But don't we even send food to Italy?
Koemer: We are exchanging certain goods.
Sauckel: Moreover we are now at the point that the families of French and Italian workers are no longer in a better position owing to the money transfer if their bread-winning members are working in Germany than if they remain abroad; now nothing remains to induce them to go to Germany.
Milch: And the second question is this: Will it be possible at all to. catch and transfer the 80% who are not employed in protected factories considering the lack of a so-called executive and divergence of opinions with regard to that problem. Wouldn't you be in a position with the political and organization conditions in France being what they are to transfer as much as about 10-15% who are the most valuable out of this 80%.
Sauckel: I simply have to extract them.
Milch: But are you able to?
Sauckel: Today I can't promise anything. Today I can only do my duty.
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Milch: What I mean is, whether or not all your attempts to get this 80% must necessarily fail, by reason of the several adverse facts: first that there is nothing which could induce the men to go to Germany; secondly, that the men expect Germany to be defeated within a measurable space of time; thirdly, that they cling~d;o their family and country; fourth, that they are work-shy anyway, since they are able to exist without working for their bread and anyway look upon this time as a transitional stage which they will be able to survive. And on our side the fact that the Army does not assist you, and that the German authorities disagree with' each other, which fact the Frenchmen ably use for their advantage.
SuMe&eL'This is no longer correct since my last visit. All German authorities, the Military Commander, Field Marshal Rund-stedt, Field Marshal Sperrle assisted my task with fervor.
Kehrl: May I explain in brief the opinion of my Minister? Otherwise the impression might be created that the measures taken by Minister Speer had been unclear or unreasonable and I do wish to prevent this from happening. Seen from our viewpoint the situation is as follows: Up to the beginning of 1943 manufacturing for the use of Germany was done in France only to a relatively modest extent, since generally only such work was transferred for which German capacity did not suffice; these were some few individual products, and moreover some basic industries. During all this time a great number of Frenchmen were recruited and voluntarily went to Germany.
(Sauckel: Not only voluntarily, some were recruited forcibly.) The calling-up started after the recruitment did no longer yield enough results.
$auclce: Out of the 5 million foreign workers who arrived in Germany, not even 200,000 came voluntarily. '
Kehrl: Let us forget for the moment whether or not some slight pressure was used. Formally, at least, they were volunteers. After this recruitment did no longer yield satisfactory results, we started calling-up according to age groups, and with regard to the first age group the success was rather good. Up to 80% of the age group were caught and sent to Germany. This started about June of last year. Following developments in the Russian war and the hopes raised thereby in the Western nations, the results of this calling-up of age groups became considerably worse, as can be proved by the figures noted; vis. the men tried to dodge this call-up for transport to Germany, partly by simply not registering at all, partly by not arriving for the transport or by leaving
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the transport on its way. When they found out through these first attempts that the German executive either was not able, or was not willing to catch these shirkers and__ either to imprison them or take them forcibly to Germany, the readiness to obey the call-ups sank to a minimum: Therefore relatively small percentages were caught in the individual countries. On the other hand, these men moved by the fear the German executive might after all be able to catch them, did not enter French, Belgian, or Dutch factories, but took to the mountains where they found company and assistance from the small partisan groups existing there.
Secret
Stenographic report of the 58th discussion of the
Central Planning Subject: Coal
on Thursday, 25 May 1944, 1600 hours Berlin, Pariser Platz 4
Dr. Koppert/Lm.
25.5.44. '
Pleiger: Will you please look at the diagram No. 3, it shows the whole personnel in the pit-coal mines. There you can see at what time we began using foreign labor. That was at the end of 1941. Furthermore, you can see how, consequently, the use of German labor declined and the share of the eastern workers and the Russian Ps/W rose. On the top is added a further large proportion of Italians. But if you take the next diagram on the number of scheduled personnel and the number of actual personnel you can see clearly how steeply the curve drops; the same with lignite. It would be necessary to find here some means of improvement. If you note that 800,000 Russians Ps/W are working at places in Germany where Italians could be used just as well, it would be possible to transfer from among those 800,000 Ps/W about 150-320,000 people to the mines. Italians are of no use in the mines; the Italians cannot stand it, they are physically not strong enough, it won't even work if strong arm methods ' are used. The Russians, however, are developing1 excellently. In any case such a solution should be tried. If the situations in the West deteriorates, if we can do no more in Belgium and the North of France we shall be able to overcome the difficulties in Lor-
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raine and Luxembourg only by a very big increase in the direction of labor to the Ruhr Region.
Kehrl: I believe there are 2 possibilities to solve the difficulties. Contrary to Pleiger, I believe that we cannot do entirely without the Italians* and especially because we can procure, trained Italian miners. We have stopped practically all mining in central Italy because we have no transportation for the material anyhow. As far as the Italians there who worked as miners are concerned, they should be transferred and used sensibly in our mining industry, because the physical strain in Germany is not substantially different from that in Italy.' We could free at least
20,000 miners. Perhaps one could adjust the proportion between lignite and pit-coal by transferring miners accordingly. Of course, we would then have to X-ray the Ps/W. By an exchange system something could be achieved.
* * * * * * *
Kehrl: Will you please look at page 29 of the report. You can see from it how the reduction which represents a considerable amount, has been worked out. The reductions are: among the Germans 4^%, among the foreigners 5%, and among the recruited.
Pleiger: Those are Bulgarians, Hungarians, Belgians, etc. They do not stay put as a matter of course. It is impossible to make them stay.
Kehrl: They go away their time expires. Among the eastern Ps/W workers one reckons with a loss of 20% of the total, among Immi (?) with a 40% loss.
Pleiger: Among the eastern workers the loss has increased so much because we received these people from the land. They were with farmers before they were sent to the mines. When they came from the farmers each of them had a package containing sausage, bacon and bread, etc. In this way the farmers thought they would return to them. In fact, the result was staggering in favor of agriculture. The people simply cannot be kept in the mines in the long run. If they have once been on the land, they leave us again. This tendency is to be noted all along the line, in the Ruhr even worse than in the Upper Silesian region.
Rohland: Is there no possibility of sending all foreign fugitives to educational camps for 2-3 months? About 30 to 40,000 people per month would be involved. These are quite consider-
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able figures. The result of the education is fantastic. I have the firm conviction that these people could be used in the mines.
Speer: We shall consider that later.
* * * * * * +
Speer: Now, the labor problem in Germany. I believe it is still possible to transfer some from the western territories. The Fuehrer stated only recently he wishes to dissolve these foreign volunteers as he had the impression that the army groups were carting around with them a lot of ballast. Therefore, if we cannot settle this matter ourselves, we shall have to call a meeting with the Fuehrer to clear up the coal situation. Keitel and Zeitz-ler will be invited to attend in order to determine the number of Russians from the rear army territories who can be sent to us. However, I see another possibility ; we might organize another drive to screen out workers for the mines from the Russian Ps/W in the Reich. But this possibility is none too promising.
* * * * * * *
Speer: We have come to an arrangement with the Reichs-fuehrer SS as soon as possible so that Ps/W he picks up are made available for our purposes. The Reichsfuehrer SS gets from 30 to 40,000 men per month. First of all, they have to be divided up. From what classes do these people come, anyhow? There certainly is a certain percentage of miners among these people who are picked up. Thèse few thousand men have to go to the mines automatically. Certainly, some educational work has to be done. The men should be put into the factories as convicts. But they have to return to the factoriès where they were before. Furthermore, we could perhaps bring the people from agriculture to the mines. A great number leave, and the people do not go to the mines, but go home.
Dr. Jaenicke/ .
Secret State Secret
36th Conference
of the
Central Planning
concerning: Plan for 1943/44 regarding coal economy on Thursday, 22 April 1943, 1550 hours at the Festival Hall at the Zoo, Jebenstr.
Speer: Throughout the winter we have seen that in the last instance it is coal which provides the basis for all plans we wish
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to execute in other respects, and most of you are also aware of our intention to increase the manufacture of iron. Here also it will again be coal which in the last instance will tip the scales, whether or not we shall be able to accomplish this increase of iron production. Seen from the Central planning, we are of the opinion that the demand for coal as well as the demand for iron ought to be coordinated in a separate plan, and that this plan ought to receive about the same degree of urgency as the Krauch-plan, and that with regard to labor, the conditions required for the execution of that plan must be established. Perhaps Mr. Timm will be able to state how he expects the question of the miners to be developed; unfortunately the miners cannot be taken from the German reservoir, in their place we shall have to use very strong foreigners.
Timm: At the moment, 69,000 men are needed for hauling that coal. We want to cover this by finding within the Reich 23,000 men, viz. healthy prisoners of war, etc. who are especially suitable for mining—and by dispatching 50,000 Poles from the General Government. Out of these about 30,000 men have been supplied up to April 24th, so that about 39,000 men are still outstanding for January to April. The demand for May has been reported to us as being 35,700. The difficulties existed especially with regard to recruitment in the General Government, since in every district surrounding Germany there is an extraordinary resistance to recruitment. In all countries we have to change over more or less to registering the men by age groups and to conscripting them in age groups. They do appear for registering as such, but as soon as transport is available, they do not come back so that the dispatch of the men has become more or less a , question for the police. Especially in Poland the situation at the moment is extraordinarily serious. It is well known that vehement battles occurred just because of these actions. The resistance against the administration established by us, is very strong. Quite a number of our men have been exposed to increased dangers, and it was just in the last two or three weeks that some of them were shot dead, e.g. the Head of the Labor Office at Warsaw who was shot in his office, and yesterday another man again. This is how matters stand presently, and the recruiting itself even if done with the best will remain extremely difficult unless police reinforcements are at hand.
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It was expected that at the end of the month 50,000 men should have arrived from the General Government. Unfortunately this could not be done. Only 3-4,000 men of them have arrived, and
8,000 more are on the way, so that the gap is rather considerable.
Speer: Of those men one can indeed only absorb a portion each month.
Sogemeier: We have provided a plan for stages: April 26,000, May 30,000, June 30,000, July 50,000, and September 56,000. If the men arrive in these stages and numbers, we should be able to reach the 290 millions of tons, provided that no miners are otherwise called up. '
Speer: Are these additional labor supplies? Are these numbers which you wish to build up ? ,
Timm: Yes, they include the losses which we expect!
(Milch: Yes, including the 70,000!)
Speer: I take it that the losses are included in these numbers?
Timm: Yes, this is not building-up, but distribution, if I understand rightly. As said before, we hope to dispatch within the next month 50,000 men from the General Government. Including the men shifted from other districts there will be 73,000 which should cover the first two months. It would be very difficult for us to increase the number in the next two months, since we have to provide agriculture with the remaining requirements which are due within the next two months, whereas in the months beginning with June the need of agricultural labor can be satisfied much easier by measures taken inside Germany. In the harvest months German labor can be called up for assistance. Only during the season for the harvesting of root vegetables is the situation difficult.
After what General Commissioner Sauckel found out in the East during his now completed tour of inspection, it would be possible to dispose of more Russian labor again in the ensuing months. How many of them will be men, can at the moment hardly be guessed, since it is the army especially who wish to release from the East women, but to keep the men there, because they are needed for all kinds of urgent work.
Speer: May I propose an inquiry on the question as to what Russian laborers are used at the moment as auxiliary laborers in the armament factories, in essential war business or otherwise; this should be done separately from these who in the meantime have learned a trade. We can indirectly exchange auxiliary in-
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dustry workers with Russian women, and we will be able in this way to provide the mining industry with Russian prisoners of war who now do clearing up labor in the court-yards.
Timm: I would also propose such indirect exchange for the essential industry as well.
Speer: The towns also were provided some time ago with Rus- . sian Ps/W for sweeping roads, etc.
Timm: Not many will be found there. If we look for greater numbers of Ps/W, we shall find them repairing tracks at the railways, and it will not be easy to extract them there, since they need grown-up and vigorous men.
(Speer: But the Russian women do that kind of work!)
Ganzenmueller: We need the men, and it is out of the question to extract men from there. We use them now as railway guards also, and we have to do this, since no other people are available.
Timm: Then we are going to draw up a statement showing where Russian prisoners of war and civilians are still used anywhere in the industry, except those who are employed after having gone through training. .
Speer: Including also agriculture. Trained people cannot be extracted. I should object at once in my capacity as General Commissioner for Armaments, if now trained men would be extracted again from the armament factories. The works manager will go slowly mad if he has to train new people over and over again. But to extract in order to send them to the mines. But their employers must receive other laborers in exchange.
Rohland: This would be impossible for the foundries. We need
35,000 additional women, whom we could employ at once, but we do not get them. We have already assented to the exchange of 35,000 eastern laborers, but we must get them as soon as the mining industry gets its men. This is understood.
*******
Sogemeier: This labor demand applies solely to pit-coal. As to lignite, we need an additional 25,000 men in the course of the next months.
Speer: This is exactly the same in the other mining industries including ore. '
Kehrl: 85% are needed for coal pits, the remaining mining industry ought to get additions in proportion.
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Speer: You should add up the numbers. We cannot approach the Reich Marshal with numbers for a single industry.
Timm: Altogether it amounts to 7Q,000 for coal and 14,000 for the remaining mines, potassium included.
Speer: We do it this way: Kehrl collects the demands for labor necessary to complete the coal-and-iron-plan and communicates the numbers to Sauckel. Probably there will be a conference at the Reich Marshal's in the next week, and an answer from Sauckel should have arrived by then. The question of recruitment for the-armaments industry will be solved together with Weger.
Kehrl: I wish to urge that the allotments to the mines should not be made dependent on the recruitment of men abroad. We were completely frustrated these last three months because this principle had been applied. We ended December with a deficit of
25,000, and we never get replacements. The number must be made up by men from Germany.
Speer: No, nothing doing!
Kehrl: We are completely stuck. I wish to point out that for a year now we feed the mining industry with promises only, and always are we pressed by the pits. They have received only half of the amount they were promised last year.
Speer: That they were only put off is not true. It was something too which they got in the meantime. Let us not hide our candle under the bushel !
Kehrl: If all is said and done, we are in such a precarious situation that trouble is certain if one considers the ever increased-program of the armaments industry. No we have drawn the: plan for May. This plan cannot in fact be executed, since the 1st of May is a holiday. The other day already we did not know how we could make it right. 800,000 T of coal fall out by reason of observing the 1st May. Compared with such numbers we are not served by a slow increase in haulage. The mines must receive their allotment in one stroke.
Speer: Out of the question! If Sauckel is able to promise the amount which he tries to get,—
Timm: He quite expressly stated he cannot promise to dispatch
50,000 men from the General Government.
Speer: But Russia has to be added to it!
Timm: Owing to the military events the influx which we had up to December has stopped at once. We received^ formerly 10™
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12,000 men in the three last months 60,000 altogether. This is how the number has gone down.
Kehrl: We now have to touch the reserve which we cannot miss on the other side. Pleiger some time ago wired Sauekel, and reports like that from the Foundry East also came from-other works.
Speer: This has been clarified already by an ordinance and a letter from me to Sauekel; from the coal pits, the foundries and the Ivan-program as such no labor will be extracted, and from the age groups only the auxiliary laborers who can be taken at the spot from the 3^1 age groups in question.
Kehrl: In this case the labor again will be taken from agriculture.
Speer: In relation to the whole of the population the number employed by the "Mountain Foundry East" is immaterial.
Timm: The Gauleiter returned this morning after he spent 7 days on the other side, and told me on the telephone he had spoken there with all competent authorities and they promised him to deliver until August a number not far below 1 million, consisting of men and women. Nobody can predict how many will be men.
Kehrl: The far greater number will be women.
Speer: These women we can use in the Reich. There are a great number of Russian Ps/W and laborers who are employed at places where they need not be employed. There can be an exchange. The only thing is to do this with unskilled workers, and not to take the workers from the industry where they were trained with difficulty.
* * * * * * *
Kehrl: Where we are late in completion of a task, or where we lose an opportunity, we can make up for it. But any coal which we cannot haul at once, is definitely lost for use in this war. This is why we cannot do enough to force the allotment to the pits.
Speer: But not by forcible actions in smashing what we toilsomely built.
(Kehrl: We need not do that!) You ought to add the conscripted labor. '
Timm: We must endeavour to get German men for working at the coal-face.
Kehrl: We subsist on foreigners who live in Germany.
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Timm: These men are concentrated within a very small area. Otherwise there might be trouble in this sector.
Speer: There is a specified statement showing in what sectors the Russian Ps/W have been distributed, and this statement is quite interesting. It shows that the armaments industry only received 30%. I always complained about this.
Timm: The highest percentage of Ps/W are Frenchmen, and one ought not to forget, that it is difficult to employ them at the coal-face. The number of Russians living within the Reich is small.
Rohland: In the mines one should exclusively use eastern people, not western ones.
Speer: The western men collapse!
Sogemeier: May I point out how much we are on the way down? In comparison with the end of February, before the start of the SE-action, we lost every day 40,000 T of pit-coal, only because we did not get replacements for the allotment promised to us; we were supposed to have our losses replaced in the proportion of 2 for 0. The proportion is still 1 for 1.
Speer: I have been given a note according to which the mines received in the first quarter of 1943, therefore at the same time when the call-ups took place, an additional 18,000 men.
Sogemeier: At the beginning of the year we had still to receive out of earlier demands about 26,000 men. To that number there are to be added 26,000 men owing to the SE-action, if we take a proportion of 1 for 1. The Central Planning had promised us in March 15,000 men for use in a planned increase of haulage. Altogether we received only 18,000 men. This means* that in fact we had not even the remainder of the request for the preceding year, and moreover that we had not yet received replacements for the SE-action in proportion of 1 for 1. Now Field Marshal Keitel wants to know whether the mining industry was in a position to release another 14,000 men. In our present situation this is entirely out of the question. If we lose another 14,000 men they could be taken only from the most vigourous age( groups of the coal face workers. It is easy to calculate to what extent the haulage would go down in such a case. We urgently ask to protect us from further calling-up in the mining industry. ,
Speer: At least it cannot be undertaken until replacement labor is available in such a way that they all have been trained. It cannot be done at a moment's notice.
Kehrl: Before August we cannot discuss such a thing. A de-R-124
crease of 40,000 tons a day means a yearly deficit of 14 million tons. '
Speer: Timm will find out in collaboration with Weger and the District Economic Offices [Landeswritschaftsaemter] where Russians suitable for mining are still employed as auxiliary laborers. They will be exchanged man for man against Russian women or other replacements received by us and suitable for their work, and the Russians will be turned over to the mining industry. It would only be preferable to make a preliminary examination of these men, since of the people engaged we always found only one half of them to be really suitable. The pre-examination of these men in the factories should set a stricter standard. After the final numbers have been found out and discussed with. Timm, a detailed statement has to be prepared for use in the Reich Marshal's conference.
Sogemeier: May I put a question connected with this matter? Russians are still being combed-out from the mining industry who had been more or less trained metal-workers. This leads to difficulties, since Russian prisoners of war, when they learn of this fact, come forward at once and state they had been metal workers.
Speer: The intention was to comb out these Russians solely for use in the industry which services the needs of the mining industry. This is clearly stated with regard to the mines. In that case you surely have no objections? .
Sogemeier: No, if the industry which serves the mines, is receiving them, I do not object.
Kehrl: In case of doubt the serving industry is not getting them! As soon as they are discovered, the Russians are snatched away for more urgent work. For instance, we have experienced that people while being on their way to us, have been redirected when they had arrived in Cologne. Only a certain percentage of them arrives as a rule, a rather high percentage is taken away for different use.
'Speer: But the number of men released as metal workers is established. Therefore, it must be possible to find out how many of these men have arrived at the serving industry. You are able to find that out, Mr. Sogemeier. We on our part had agreed with Sauckel that they are to be extracted solely for the serving industry. This was in compliance with Pleiger's express request to that effect.
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Speer: In any case we ought to force the com production with all our power. I now have here a statement on the distribution of the Soviet prisoners. There are 368,000 altogether. Of these are:
101,000 in agriculture, 94,000 in the mining industry—who are not available in any case,—15,000 in the building materials industry, 26,000 in iron and metal production where they cannot be extracted either, 29,000 in the manufacture of iron, steel, and metal goods, 63,000 in the manufacture of machines, boilers, and cars, and similar appliances, which means in armaments industry and 10,000 in the chemical industry. Agriculture thus has received by far the most of them, and the men employed there could in the course of time be exchanged for women. The 90,000 Russian Ps/W employed in the whole of the armaments industry are for the greatest part skilled men. If you can extract 8-10,000 men from there, it would already be the limi c.
Kehrl: Would it not be possible to add Serbians, etc.?
Sogemeier: We ought not to mix too much.
Rohland: For God's sake, no Serbians! We had very bad experiences with mixing.
Speer: We distribute by starting from a production of 290 million tons which is quite considerable. If the conditions on which such a production can be reached cannot be fulfilled this will influence the supply of household coal to a very great extent. This we ought to point out to Sauckel, viz. that the psychological effect on the population will be a considerable one in case he cannot provide the necessary labor.
Meinberg: Especially since the transports or laborers always arrive lyi months later than promised; for this means a loss of 10% production intended to be accomplished by the additional laborers. In that case the 290 million tons can never be reached, but 280 million at the most. The delay alone in supplying the labor has that effect.
Speer: What are your proposals for our furtner action, Kehrl ?
Kehrl: If the labor supply is secured by appropriate measures we have no problem as to its distribution. This problem of distribution, however, is insoluble, if we have to distribute the labor for a production of less than 295 million tons, i. e., if we produce less than 282 million tons. According to what Timm just said and what we have discussed, we shall not reach our goal. He wants to take 22,000 men from inner Germany, moreover 10,000 Russians Ps/W, altogether 32,000. To supply the rest, we wait for God in Heaven and the Government General. Judging by our earlier ex-
171
perience we shall not get them. The gentlemen of the Government General had 'to cancel the recruitment owing to the danger for their lives, since they were unable to recruit at all in certain areas. The least we have to reckon with are therefore great delays, and each delay means great loss of production because there is less hauling.
Timm: All these numbers are estimates, and nobody can guarantee their correctness. I made a point of mentioning the difficulties. But I am enough of an optimist to believe that we shall be able to attain these numbers. I also said we hope to supply in May the outstanding labor from the Government General despite all the difficulties. If one estimates pessimistically one never arrives at a conclusion.
Kehrl: Our risk with regard to coal, however, is too great. All honor to the optimist, but it seems out of the question that we could get as much as we need. We cannot afford to take a risk in this matter.
Speer: Who is in a position to give you a guarantee for a 100 % certainty ? ,
Kehrl: We have to employ the men who are already in this country. This is the only possible guarantee.
{Speer: Absolutely out of the question.)
In relation to the number of men already working for us the
20,000 to 30,000 men whom we wish to extract are a very small number. They are of decisive importance for the entire industry. We employ altogether 24 million men. If we extract 25,000 directly from our people, this does mean nothing for the manufactures, but would decisively benefit the whole of industry.
Speer: Out of the question!
Schieber: In my opinion the Commissioner General for Labor ought to proceed in the following manner: action to bring about the immediate release of at least 30,000 laborers from agriculture who will be supplied to the coal mines. In exchange, agriculture which is anyway in urgent need of additional female labor, receives any female labor who arrive. In my opinion the mines today can be supplied only from the sole real reserve of vigorous foreign men which we still have, viz. from agriculture. These men are also well fed and able to do real work.
Speer: Everything depends on the amount of the influx from abroad.
Schieber: If anyway nothing arrives, the mines certainly will get nothing.
Timm: Gauleiter Sauckel is perfectly convinced that the transports will be on their way within a short time. Now the front has been consolidated at last.
Schieber: We ought to be grateful that the weather has allowed the farmer to keep things going in some way despite the little labor being available to him. For the farmer, the coal supply is just as important as for the whole of the armaments industry. When we discuss tomorrow the nitrogen problem we shall see the same: our first need is coal.
Koerner: On the 1st of April we had in agriculture a deficit of about 600,000 laborers. It had been planned to cover it by supplying labor from the east, mainly women. These laborers will first have to be supplied until other laborers are released from agriculture. We are just entering the season where the heaviest work in the fields has to be done, for which many laborers are necessary. Much labor is needed for the hoeing of the fruits, and it is to be hoped that this year the harvest can be started early which would be rendered much more difficult if an exchange of labor would have to take place.
Kehrl: Relatively considered, agriculture is much better provided with labor than the mines. They are still able to undertake improvements which they could not have undertaken in peace-time. We of the mines, on the other hand, have to fight for 20 to 30,000 men. It should not be possible to raise this number out of the 24 millions? The mines are in a bad position because they can use only certain categories of workers. They are fed with hopes of the men promised from the Government General or of Russians. But if these men do not arrive?
Sogemeier: The 30,000 men are but replacements for the men extracted by the SE-action. If we get them we can just haul 260 million tons, in the best possible case, 275 tons. Therefore, we need more men than the 38,000.
Kehrl: I meant this number in an additional sense: added 30,000 men to those expected from the Government General.
Speer: How is the situation in the Protectorate, Mr. Timm? Can we not extract anything from there ?
Timm: Discussions on this question had been planned, but were cancelled because of the intended shifting of orders'for manufacture in the Protectorate.
693261—47—12
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Speer': Despite this shifting, the manpower reservoir is still of such size that some could be extracted. Apart from this, we are not in a position to shift orders at wish, but we are already hampered by the power question.
Timm: This is exactly what we expected. But the discussions planned to take place in Prague, have been cancelled.
Speer: The local authorities always maintain that nothing can be released.
Timm: We wanted the discussions in Prague, since we had examined the position and found out that there are far too many skilled workers in some places and that many workers could be extracted. But subsequently we were told by the Ministry, the conference was cancelled because the shifting made it necessary to employ all available labor.
Weger: General Daluege and Gauleiter Sauckel especially wished that you, Mr. Minister, took part in the conference. I agree with Timm, and told Hoersekamp that I do not doubt he could release labor from the General Government despite the shifting because the power question will not be solved in the Protectorate until next year and the year after. Until that time he cannot even use so much labor. Therefore he ought to release some in any case.
Milch: We ought to except certain areas of the Protectorate to which the orders are being directed, and extract nothing there until a surplus is found out subsequently. For the time being it cannot be ascertained. There are enough other areas of the Protectorate which are not affected by the industry plan and some labor could be extracted from them at once. We ought to name the places which are excepted from our action.
Timm: In this the authorities on the other side ought to participate ; they are in the best position to tell the places from where nothing must be extracted.
Milch: If one proceeds as I proposed, and Timm agreed to it, no damage can be done. This ought to be done in any case. For the rest I completely agree: we must now supply the mines with labor. The greatest part of labor which we can supply from the East will indeed be women. But the eastern women are quite accustomed to agricultural work, and especially to the type of work which has to be done these coming weeks, the hoeing and transplanting of turnips etc. The women are quite suitable for this. One thing has to be considered: first you must supply agrift-124
culture with the Women, then you can extract the men, laborer
for laborer. It is not the right thing if first the men are taken away and the farmers are left without labor for 4 to 6 weeks. If the women arrive after such time they arrive too late.
Speer: Beyond this we are prepared to release from all parts of the war economy, in exchange for women, any Russian Ps/W or other Russian who is employed as auxiliary laborer.
The Commissioner for the Four-Year Plan Central Planning
Berlin W 8, 24th Une 1943 3 Leipziger Strasse
Z.P. U8
24 copies 17th copy
State Top Secret
Results of the 42nd session of the Central Planning Board, on the 23rd June 1943. 16 hrs.
Coal situation
The man-power situation in the coal mining industry, particularly in the hard coal mining industry, is still unsatisfactory, and necessitates an extension of the measures decided upon at the 36th session of the Central Planning Board, held on the 22nd April 1943.
The intensive discussion yielded as the most expedient solution the use of Russian prisoners of war to fill the existing vacancies. The more homogeneous character of the shifts will bring about the necessary higher output resulting both from an increased capacity of such shifts and particularly from a restriction of fluctuations.
1. The present drive, which is to be carried out throughout the German economy proper, aims both at freeing Russian labor, fit for work in the mining industry and actually not employed as semi-skilled workmen, and at replacing it by additionally imported labor consisting of Eastern workers, Poles, etc. Thus, about 50,000 workmen are expected to be made available up to the end of July 1943. This drive is to be accelerated.
Furthermore as an immediate measure it should be suggested to the Fuehrer—RVK [Reichvereinigung Kohle, Reich Coal Association] and GBA [Generalbevollmaechtigter fuer den Arbeit-
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seinsatz, Plenipotentiary General for Labor] submitting the necessary figures for the statement to the Fuehrer, that 200,000 Russian prisoners fit for the heaviest work be made available from the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS through the intermediary of the Chiefs of the Army Groups [Heeresgruppenchefts]. The prisoners will be selected on the spot by medical officers of the mining industry and officials of the office of the Plenipotentiary General for Labor Control (GBA) will take charge of them there and then. Provisions are to be made for an extension of this program in order to satisfy any demand for man power, which will have accumulated up to the end of the year 1943.
The man power needed by the mining transport industry [Bég-bau-Zubringer-Industrie] and by the iron producing industry [Eisenschaffende Industrie] may be supplied from that same source provided that the necessities of the coal mining industry have previously been adjusted. -The performance of the Soviet Russians so employed is to be raised by a premium system [Praemien-system]. For this purpose, the ban on pay restrictions is to be lifted and the manager [Betriebsfuehrer] be allowed to distribute amongst the workmen, according to his duty and discretion, RM1.—per head per day as premium for particular services rendered.
Furthermore, care will be taken, that workmen can exchange these premiums, which will be paid out in camp money [Lagergeld] for goods. It is intended to put at their disposal various provisions (e.g, sunflower seeds, etc.) beer, tobacco, cigarettes and cigars, small items for daily use, etc.
The Reich Ministry of Food [Rem-Reichs-Ernaehrungs-Minis-trium] in conjunction with the Reich Association "Coal" [RV "Kohle"] and the Reich Ministry of Economic Affairs [RWM-Reichs Wirtschafts-Ministerium] will clarify the question whether further improvement can be granted as far as rations are concerned.
2. Equally in occupied countries, labor is to be tied more securely to the various factories by means of the distribution of additional ration cards as premium for good services. This refers in particular to the Government General and the occupied territories in the east [Ostgebiete]. The output demanded of the Government General is to be fixed at the proposed amount, and the additional rations for armament workers may then be rated accordingly. Dr. Gramsch
[typewritten signature]
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Present:
Reichsminister Speer Generalfeldmarschall Milch Staatsrat Schieber
Oberburgmeister Liebei
Major General Waeger
Dr. Ing. Groener
Praesident Kehrl
* Min. Dir. Gramsch Min. Dirig. Timm
Staatsrat Pleiger Dr. Sogemeier Dr. Rosenkranz
Reich Ministry for Armament and Ammunition Reich Ministry for Armament and Ammunition Reich Ministry for Armament and Ammunition Reich Ministry for Armament and Ammunition Reich Ministry of Economic Affairs Four Year Plan Office of the Plenipotentiary General for Labor Control [GBA]
Reich Association "Coal" [RVK]
Reich Association "Coal" [RVK]
Reich Association "Coal" [RVK]
Stenographic Transcript of the
53rd Conference of the Central Planning
Concerning Supply of Labor on February 16, 1944 10 o'clock in the Reich Air Ministry
(Present: Milch (for Central Planning), Dehrle, Berk, etc.)
Milch: The armament industry employs foreign workmen to a large extent : according to the latest figures—40 %. The new directions by the Plenipotentiary General for Manpower are mostly foreigners and we lost a lot of German personnel which was called up. Specially the air industry being a young industry employs a great many young people who should be called up. This will be very difficult as is easily seen if one deducts those working for experimental stations. "Tn mass production the foreign
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workers by far prevail. It is about 95% and higher. Our best new engine is made 88% by Russian prisoners of war and the other 12% by German men and women. 50-60 Ju 52's which we now regard only as, transport planes are made per month. Only 6-8 German men are working on this machine: The rest are Ukrainian women who have beaten all the records of trained workers:
* * * * $ * *
Milch: The list of the shirkers should be entrusted to Himmler's trustworthy hands who will make them work all right. This is very important for educating people and has also a deterrent effect on such others who would likewise feel inclined to shirk.
* * « « * * * «.
Milch:
* * * * * * *
It is, therefore not possible to exploit fully all the foreigners unless we compel them by piece work or we have the possibility of taking measures against foreigners who are not doing their bit. But if the foreman lays hands on a prisoner of war or smacks him there is at once a terrible row, the man is put into prison etc. There are sufficient officials in Germany who think it their most important duty to stand up for human rights instead of war production. I am also for human rights. But if a Frenchman says: "You fellows will all be hanged and the chief of the factory will be beheaded first" and if then the chief says "I am going to hit him" then he is in a mess. He is not protected, but the "poor fellow" who said that to him is protected. I have told my engineers "I am going to punish you if you don't hit such a man; the more you do in this respect the more I shall praise you. I shall see to it that nothing happens to you". This is not yet sufficiently known. I cannot talk to all factory-leaders. I should like to see the man who stays my arm because I can settle accounts with everybody who stays my arm. If the little factory-leader does that he is put into a concentration camp and runs the risk of losing the prisoners of war. In one case two Russian officers took off with an airplane but crashed. I ordered that these two men be hanged at once. They were hanged or shot yesterday. I left that to the SS. I expressed the wish to have them hanged in the factory for others to see.
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State Top Secret Stenographic Notes of the
22nd Conference of the
Central Planning
Concerning the Direction of Labor on Monday 2 November 1942 at 1200 hours in the Air Ministry.
"Milch: I believe that agriculture must get its labor quota. Assuming we could have given agriculture 100,000 more men, we would now have 100,000 more men who would be more or less well fed, while actually the human material which we receive generally—above all the Ps/W—are not in good enough condition for work"
Secret .
Stenographic Transcript of the . 23rd Conference of the
Central Planning
concerning Iron Quotas
Held on 3 November 1942, 1600 hours in the Reich Ministry for Armament and Munitions, Berlin, Pariser Platz 3
*******
Speer: Well, through the industry, we could deceive the French by telling them that we would release for their use all prisoners of war who are rolling mill workers and smelters if they would only give us the names.
Rohland: We have established our own office in Paris. I see, you mean, the French should report the smelters who are prisoners of war in Germany.
Milch: I would simply say you get two men in exchange for one of these.
Speer: The French firms know exactly which prisoners of war are smelters. Unofficially, you should create the impression that they would be released. They give the names and then we have them. Do that.
Rohland: That is an idea!
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Secret.
Top State Secret!
Shorthand Minutes of the .
. 33rd Conference of the Central Planning Board concerning: Labor Supply-on February 16th, 1943 at 16 hrs. at the Reich Ministry for Armament and Munitions.
Pariser Platz, Berlin
Timm: I should like to say something about the labor supply possibilities. Perhaps you will permit me to emphasize the negative side a little. The greatest difficulties result from the fact that the supply of labor outstanding could not be fully dispatched from the East, but came in in ever diminishing numbers. One may say that they have almost become completely exhausted. Eastern laborers during the last six weeks arrived only in smaller numbers than in former times, so that they can hardly be included to an appreciable amount on the credit side of the supply account. In any case their numbers are small. The foremost reason is that in former months most transports were dispatched from the Ukraine while the main recruitment areas were those which in the meantime had become operational areas, or even were no longer in our hands. The forecasts we made applied to a large extent to the transport of people from the Caucasus district, the Kuban, from areas like Stalingrad etc. These possibilities no longer exist. We have prepared measures which should enable us to draw more Eastern workers again during the following months. I venture to think that we should be able, on a conservative calculation, to transfer during the month of March between
150,000 and 200,000 laborers from the East to the West.
(Speer: Including or exchanging those needed for agriculture?) Including those needed for agriculture. But in my opinion it will be necessary to apply much pressure, since just those districts are concerned which have been pacified to a certain extent, and for the same reason will not be very much inclined to release labor. This is calculated on the assumption that some labor has to be released also from the eastern and northern parts of the East.
The second area, capable of releasing a considerable amount of labor is the Government General, and,that for the January estimate which has been drawn up with particular caution as I again wish to emphasize. We expect that the figures will rather be surpassed than not reached. I think we can expect a number of
40,000, of which, it is true, a part will have to be given to agri-
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culture, if we intend no more than to cover the losaes which we had to inflict last autumn.
Beyond this it ought to be possible in my opinion, to employ within the Reich, and especially for the mining industry, part of the Polish Building Service. I venture to think one ought to enlarge this organization in such a way that more age groups than so far are called up for it, since this procedure is functioning. The younger age groups which in fact are especially suited for mining could be dispatched to the Reich. In this case the supervisors who are provided for the greatest part by the Building Service, will be needed only in very small numbers in the Reich.
The next area would be the Protectorate on which I cannot make a final statement today. We have been promised for the month of March about 10,000 laborers. But I am of the opinion that some loosening-up is possible. The Commissioner will soon in a personal visit take in hand the possibility of this loosening-up.
France is included in the account with 100,000 laborers for March. Messages which I received permit us to hope that this number will be increased in the middle of March. Belgium is included with 40,000, Holland with 30,000, Slovakia with 20,000, who, it is true, are exclusively suited for agriculture, since their share of individual workers has been completely delivered. This item consists exclusively of agricultural laborers, owing to a State treaty. For the remaining part of the foreign areas I included another 10,000. This amounts altogether to 400,000 laborers who should arrive in March. One might be entitled to add for the last month altogether 10,000 prisoners of war. These are men to be drawn from the East. It can be expected that this number might under certain conditions be surpassed, since the High Command intends especially for operational reasons, to take the prisoners of war back to the Reich, particularly from the areas threatened by the enemy. A former item concerns the fluctuation of labor which certainly amounts to about 100,000 laborers. Then there are items which at the moment cannot be estimated: the yield from the threatened areas and from the "Stoppage-action". Here I cannot venture to name final figures, but I hope to be able to do so next month.
Sauckel: Of course we regret very much that last autumn we were unable to recruit as much as we would have liked in the areas which now are again in enemy hands. This is partly due to the fact that we were not assisted in the degree we had expected. Moreover we were not able to effect the removal of the civil population which had been planned. These events are an urgent re-
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minder of the fact that it is necessary to employ foreign laborers at once and in great numbers in Germany proper and in the actual armaments industry. You may be certain that we wish to achieve this. We have not the slightest interest in creating difficulties for an armaments office, even for those working for German interest abroad, by taking labor away from them to an unreasonable extent. But on this occasion I should like to ask you to try and understand our procedure. We Germans surely have sent to the front between 50 and 75°/o of our. skilled workers. A part of them has been killed while the nations subjugated by us need no longer shed their blood. Thus they can preserve their entire capacity with regard to skilled workers, inasmuch as they have not been transferred to Germany which is the case only for a much smaller percentage than all of us supposed, and in fact they, do use them partly for manufacturing things which are not in the least important for the German war economy. If we proceed energetically against this abuse, I ask you to give me credit for so much reason that I do not intend to damage the foreign interests of the German armaments industry. The quality of the foreign worker is such that it cannot be compared with that of the German worker. But even then I intend to create a similar proportion between skilled and workers trained, for their job, as it exists in Germany by force of tradition, since it has come about that we had to sepd men to the front in much larger numbers than we requested France or any other country to do. Moreover we shajl endeavour increasingly to bring about on a generous scale the adaptation of the French, Polish, and Czech workers. I do not see for the moment any necessity for limiting the use of foreign labor. The only thing I ask for is that we understand each other, so that the immense difficulties and friction between the respective authorities disappear and the program drawn up by us will by no means be frustrated by such things.
There are without a doubt still enough men in France, Holland, Belgium, the Protectorate, and the Government General to meet our labor demands for the next months. I confess that I expect more success from such a procedure with respect to heavier work or for work where shifts of 10 or more hours are customary, than from relying on the use of German women and men exclusively. We shall have better success by proceeding this way provided the foreign workers still obey, which remains a risk we always run, than by using weaker German women and girls as labor in places of very important armament work, where foreigners may be used for security reasons.
182
The situation in France is this; after I and my assistants had succeeded after difficult discussions in inducing Laval to introduce the Service Act this act has now j?een enlarged, owing to our pressure so that already yesterday three French age groups have been called up. We are now therefore legally and with the assistance of the French government entitled to recruit laborers in France from three age groups, whom we can use in French factories in the future, but of whom we may choose some for our use in Germany and send them to Germany. I think in France the ice is now broken. According to reports received they now have begun to think about a possible break through by the Bolsheviks and the dangers which thereby threaten Europe. The resistance which the French Government has hitherto shown, is diminishing. Within the next days I shall go to France in order to set the whole thing into motion, so that the losses in the East may be somewhat balanced by increasing recruitment and calling-up in France. *
If we receive comprehensive lists in time, we shall, I think, be able to cover all demands by dispatching in March 800,000 laborers.
Speer: Recruitment abroad as such is supported by us. We only fear very much that the skilled workers extracted from the occupied countries do not always reach the appropriate factories in Germany. It might certainly be better if we acted in such a way that the parent firms of Germany which work with the French and Czech factories would comb out the foreign works more than before for their own use.
Sauckel: We made an agreement with Field Marshal Milch. You will get the factories which are urgently needed for your airplane motors, etc.; these will be completely safeguarded. In the same way I promised Grand Admiral Doenitz today that the U-Boat repair firms proper are absolutely safeguarded. We shall even be able to provide our own armament factories on French soil with labor extracted from French factories, in the main from the unoccupied territory where there still are metal works which have their full complement of skilled workers without even having been touched so far.
Hildebrandt: May I point out at this point that we have to put up with the loss of the Italian workers this year. This, according to present discussions, concerns 300,000 men altogether, or 15 to 20,000 a month. If we deduct the first installment, the remaining ones to a great part are just highly skilled metal workers.
ft-124
Sauckel: This is a request of the Fuehrer, but he has not yet finally decided.
Hildebrandt: But we ljave been told to be prepared to lose these men. (
Speer: We ourselves quite support the combing-out abroad. On the other hand we must be entitled—and this was agreed— to exclude or prefer particular kinds of work, e.g. the armour factories. In France we are more and more turning towards giving up finishing processes, and stressing the sub-contracting. It is the foundries and similar works, e.g. for the use of the aluminum industry, which we wish to use to capacity. We could force the production of Opel, so that in this case Peugeot who manufacture the forged parts for Opel, the parent firm, might demand more labor for this while the rest of their workers would be taken over by Opel. ,
- # % £ sjs tfc *
Milch:-With regard to France there is in France an industry which manufactures complete aeroplane motors and spare parts. We have transferred to France the manufacture of everything which can be made there without impairing secrecy. These are training planes, transport planes, etc. However since we wish to make better use of these possibilities we have transferred to a great extent the manufacturing of parts. The complete product must be kept secret from the French; but in every secret appliance there are only a few parts which in fact are to be kept secret. The bulk is made up of the other parts; their manufacture has been transferred to France to a great extent, in the same manner we have started the employment of many construction engineers there. Today there is continuous work in France for several thousand construction engineers. The industry which works in France for our benefit, needs today 20,000 men who must be provided by us, in order to fulfill the program. The production lags far behind the program agreed upon. While we fulfill in Germany the whole of the program, it is being met in France by only 30%. True, it is now on the increase since we intervened during the last weeks and months. On principle we have kept the State out of this collaboration with French industry, and have had the German firms deal with the French (firms). They are called sponsor firms so that now this system works. This system has not been completed everywhere, but it is on the way all over, and we have had rather good results. We are often told we have almost the whole of Europe at our disposal.
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But the production which we receive from France is insignificant, except for army cars. The whole potential French production is not used by us so far, but only a small percentage. If we were not forced to produce in France, since many facilities, rooms, machines, etc., cannot be transferred to Germany, if the housing of workers were not so difficult, etc., then we might prefer to transfer everything to Germany and let all work be done here. But we would have too great losses in production apart from the restiveness of the men. Yesterday we made an agreement. I am very grateful that this matter will now be put right on the spot by you, Gauleiter Sauckel, together with General Von Der Heyde and Colonel Brueckner. It is most difficult to get French laborers to Germany. These things cannot be decided or regulated by authorities, but only a sponsor firm has the necessary means of finding out about it. I therefore propose to make use of sponsor firms, especially since in France the system of sub-contracting is very much developed. Behind a factory which organizes the whole business, as far as is known from the outside, there are in fact other factories employed in preparation and semi-fabrication. But our sponsor firms would be able to comb-out these sub-contractors as well. We ought to charge our people with combing out all these firms and to find out what men work for our program. Who does not will be snatched by us.
4c 4c > 4c 4c 4: 4c 4c
Of course a front exists somewhere in the East. This front will be held for a certain time. The only thing which the Russians inherit, if we evacuate an area is the population. The question is whether we had not better make it a rule to take the population back first as far as 100 km. to the rear of the front. All the civil population will be taken back 100 km. behind the front. There are no trenches now for which labor would be needed.
Timm: We tried to take the population of Kharkov back. But the officer commanding the fortress of Kharkov requested 90-
120,000 people only for the construction of field works so that we had to provide even complete railway trains.
Weger: They were even undertaking demolitions.
Milch: But this is done by the Engineers. Any hope of getting prisoners of war from the East, hardly exists today.
Sauckel: If any prisoners are taken there, they will be needed.
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Milch: We have made a request for an order that a certain percentage of men in the A. A. Artillery must be Russians.
50,000 will be taken altogether; 30,000 are already employed as gunners. This is an amusing thing that Russians must work the guns. The last 20,000 are still outstanding. Yesterday I received a letter from the Army High Command, in which they say they could release not a single man, they themselves have not enough. Thus this measure will not be successful for us.
[Extracts on the Subject of Deportations and Forced Labor From Speer's Minutes of his Meetings with Hitler]
Fuehrer-Protokolle 1942 19th August 1942.
[Page 514]
Record of conferences with the ^
Fuehrer on 10, 11 and 12 August 1942
42. Gauleiter Sauckel promises to make Russian labor available for the fulfillment of the iron and coal program and reports that—if required—he can supply a further million Russian laborers for the German armament industry up to and including Oct. 1942. So far, he has already supplied 1 million for industry and
700,000 for agriculture. In this connection the Fuehrer states that the problem of providing labor can be solved in all cases and to any extent; he authorizes Gauleiter Sauckel to take all measures required.
He would agree to any necessary compulsion [Zwangsmassnahmen] in the East as well as in the West if this question could not be solved on a voluntary basis.
Signed: Speer
i i
*******
Fuehrer-Protokolle 1942
[Pages 477-478] Berlin, 29 Sept. 1942
Minutes of conferences with
the Fuehrer on September 20th, 21st and 22 1942
13-14
36. I pointed out to the Fuehrer that, apart from an insignificant amount of work, no possibility exists of organizing armament-production in the concentration camps, because
1.
2.
the machine tools required are missing there are no suitable premises.
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Both these assets would be available in the armaments industry, if use would be made of them by a second shift.
The Fuehrer agrees to my proposal, that the numerous factories set up outside towns for ARP reasons, should release their workers for supplementing the second shift in town factories and should in return be supplied with labor from the concentration camps—also two shifts. 1
I pointed out to the Fuehrer the difficulties which I expect to encounter if Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler should be able, as he requests, to exercise authoritative influence over these factories. The Fuehrer, too, does not consider such an influence necessary.
The Fuehrer however agrees that Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler should draw advantages from making his prisoners available; he should get equipment for his division.
I suggest to give him a share in kind (war equipment) in ratio to the working-hours done by his prisoners. A 3-5% share is discussed, the equipment also being calculated according to working hours. The Fuehrer would agree to such a solution.
The Fuehrer is prepared to order the additional delivery of this equipment and weapons to the SS, according to list submitted to him. '
Signed: Speer
* * * * * * #
[Pages 252-253]
STATE TOP SECRET
Berlin 10 July 1943
Discussion with the Fuehrer 8 July 1943
17. The Fuehrer laid down in the coal discussion that 70,000 Russian prisoners of war fit for mining work should be sent each month to the mines. He also pointed out that an approximate minimum of 150,000-200,000 fit Russian prisoners of war must be earmarked for the mines in order to obtain the required number of men suitable for this work.
If the Russian prisoners of war cannot be released by the Army, the male population in the partisan infested areas should without distinction be proclaimed prisoners of war and sent off to the mines.
The Fuehrer ordered at the same time that these prisoners of
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war who are not fit for the mines should immediately be placed in the iron industry, in manufacturing and supply industries and in the armament industry.
The Fuehrer further ordered that he should receive a monthly report giving
A. the total number of Russian prisoners of war.
B. the number of Russian prisoners of war fit for mining,
who have been made available for the mines and a report addressed to Field Marshal Keitel as to why the remainder could not be used.
The joint report of Sauckel and Pleiger is also to be sent to me.
Signed: Speer
* * * * * * * [Page 168]
Ministeramt (Minister's Office)
Records of the discussions in the Fuehrer Headquarters on the 6th and 7th December 1943
22. Reported to the Fuehrer on a proposal worked out by Dr. Carl, relating to "Aktion Russland" (Action Russia) and left detailed data to him for examination. The Fuehrer points out again that my suggestion was good, that only a surprise-action is worthwhile and that subdivision into three separate actions, as proposed by the Luftwaffe, does not appear suitable.
Signed: Speer
$ $ jfc * jfc #
[Page 139]
State Top Secret
Points from the Conference (Saur) with the Fuehrer on the 5th March 1944, jointly with General Field Marschall Milch, General der Flieger Bodenschat2, Oberst Von Below
Berlin, 6th March 1944
18. "Told the Fuehrer of the Reich Marshal's wish for the further utilization of the production power of prisoners of war by giving the direction of the Stalags to the S.S. with the exception of the English and Americans. The Fuehrer considers the proposal good and has asked Colonel Von Below to arrange mat-to accordingly." Prepared fcy gaur
Seen by Speer
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[Page 132]
Minutes of Discussions with the Fuehrer on 6th and 7th Avril 19 U
State Secret
Berlin, 9th April 1944.
The Director of the Technical Office TA Ch S/Kr.
,17. "Suggested to thé Fuehrer that, due to lack of builders and equipment, the second big building project should not be set up in German territory, but in close vicinity to the border on suitable soil (preferable on gravel base and with transport facilities) on French, Belgian or Dutch territory. The Fuehrer agrees to this suggestion if the works could be set up behind a fortified zone. For the suggestion of setting this plant up in French territory speaks mainly the fact that it would be much easier to procure the necessary workers. Nevertheless, the Fuehrer asks an attempt be made to set up the second works in a safer area, namely in the Protectorate. If it should prove impossible there too, to get hold of the necessary workers, the Fuehrer himself will contact the Reichsfuehrer 'SS' and will give an order that the required 100,000 men are to be made available by bringing in Jews from Hungary. Stressing the fact that the building organization of the [Industriegemeinsohaft Schlesien] was a failure, the Fuehrer demands that these works must be built by the O.T. exclusively and that the workers should be made available by the Reichsfuehrer 'SS'. He wants to hold a meeting shortly in order to discuss details with all the men concerned.
Signed: Speer
693561—47—13
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[Extracts *
on the Subject of Deportations and Forced Labor from Speer's Minutes on
Meetings of "Central Planning"]
Reichsminister Speer Minister's Office
Berlin, 24 July 1942 Dr. Goe/W
SECRET
Report on the 11th Conference of the "Central Planning'
22nd July 1942
Present :
Reichsminister Speer General Field Marshal Milch State Secretary Koerner Commercial Advisor Roechling Dr. Rohland
Dr. Von Bohlen u. Halbach Dr. Langen Bergass A.D. Sohl Gauleiter Sauckel
on the
4 State Secretary Backe General Director Pleiger Dr. Fischer
Major General V. Gablenz
Herr Kranefuss
Ministerial Director Gramsch
Ministerial Advisor V. Normann
Dr. Schieber
Dr. Stellwaag
Major Wagner
Major General Becht
Lieutenant Colonel V. Nicolai
Reich Iron
Association
Association
Association
Association
Commissioner for Labor Control
Reich Food Ministry Reich Coal Association Reich Coal Association Reich Air. Ministry Reich Air Ministry 4 Years Plan 4 Years Plan Reich Ministry for Armaments & Munitions Reich Ministry for Armaments & Munitions Reich Ministry for Armaments & Munitions Reich Ministry for Armaments &, Munitions
190
ft— 124
Ministerial Advisor Dr. Wissmann
Herr Schlieker Dr. Goerner
Reich Ministry for Armaments & Munitions
Reich Ministry for Armaments & Munitions
Reich Ministry for Armaments & Munitions
At the conference following on the 10th meeting—the provisions for the increased iron production were discussed.
Assurance of Food Supplies.
A net influx of one million foreign workers is estimated. This figure has not been achieved in the previous months. Even with an intake of more than one million in the coming months the million-boundary will not be overstepped in view of current departures. For this food supply is assured. How far an improvement of the food supplies positions can be made possible through sharper grasp of the production outside Germany * * *
[every?] day a train load of the forces working in the east [will be] directed to the coal mines until the figure of 6,000 is achieved. Prisoners of war are being obtained, at present, from camps in the Government General. 51,000 prisoners of war in the SenneCamp. In the district east of the Government General there are
74,000 prisoners of war available. Up till now an elimination quota of 50% of unemployable people has been reckoned with in the allocations to coal mining. It is considered necessary that not too high demands should be placed on the choice of prisoners of war. The Miners' Union Doctors are to be informed that a different standard is to be laid down for the prisoners of war than for German miners.
For the consecutive order in which the prisoners of war are to be put to work, it will be laid down, that before the metal workers are chosen, the coal mining in the first place and requirements for the loading and unloading-commands in the second place are to be considered.
General Field Marshal Milch undertakes to accelerate the procuring of the Russian prisoners of war from the camps.
Signed: Dr. Eng. Goerner [Typewritten]
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The Trustee for the Four Years Plan .
Berlin, 30th October 1942.
Central Planning SECRET
Z.P. 6.
Results of the 17th meeting of Central Planning on October 28, 1942, 9.30 a.m.
Increase of Coal Production
1. Allocation of Labor.
Coal production in the Ruhr district has increased to 390,000 tons per day. Any further increase depends on whether the requirements for labor are being met. About 104,000 men are required. Furthermore, 7,800 men—originally 16-17,000, requirements having been brought down by rationalization—are needed for the supplying industry, 6,800 of these for the machine industry. 5,000 more unskilled workers are furthermore required to secure the transport of mine-timber which is essential for reason of variety [Sortimmentsgruenden].
The intake capacity of the mining industry for the month of November is 44,000 prisoners of war of which 25,000 are for the Ruhr district, and 12,600 Eastern workers, 7,500 of whom are for the Ruhr district. Total requirements so far amount to 191,000 laborers of whom 90,700 were wanted by the Ruhr district. Up to October 24th a total of 123,000 was allocated. These numbers are still to be checked up by the Transport Committee (R(eichs) V(erkehrs) K(ommission)) and Mr. Sauckel.
According to the Commissioner of Labor (G(eneral) B(eauft-ragter der) A(rbeit)) the following number of prisoners of war is at present at hand.
Within the Reich on the way and in camp............. 30,000
Remainder of prisoners of war (outstanding from a total of 150,000 and promised up to the beginning of December) ............................................ 60,000
At camps in the General Government.................. 15,000
Of these up to December 1st the following can be regarded as available:
Within the Reich.................................... 15,000
Of the remainder of prisoners of war................ 10,000
From the General Government......................... 7,500
total about 32,000
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Therefore, as compared to the required 44,000 there is a deficit of about 12,000. Moreover, 10,000 civilian laborers from the East can be put up by exchanges from the agricultural sector which is
2,000 less than required so that the November deficit amounts to 14,000 and, in comparison with the total requirements of the mining industry of 104,000, there is a deficit of 62,000. The deficit increases by the loss figures of prisoners of war the number of which is still to be ascertained by the Commissioner of Labor.
The mining industry is in a position to use any amount of Eastern labor instead of prisoners of war. Therefore, it is to get preference at the combing out of the agricultural sector. There is no objection to a temporary accommodation of Eastern labor at prisoner of war camps (without barbed wire, etc.).
The requirements of the supply industry are to be met by the Red Label method [Rotzettelverfahren]. Constructors [Konstrukteure] are to be provided by canvassing at the French prisoner of war camps for officers.
(typed signature) Dr. Steffler * * * * * * *
Present:
Reichsminister Speer .Generalfeldmarschall Milch Staatssekretaer Koerner
Staatsrat Schieber RM. f.B.u.Mun.
Gen. Maj. Becht RM. f.B.u.Mun.
Oberstltn. v. Nichoai RM. f.B.u.Mun.
Herr Schlieker RM. f.B.u.Mun.
Oberberghauptmann Gabel RWM
Oberst Dr. Krull , RWM
Oberbergrat Otto RWM
Staatssekretaer Ganzenmueller RVM~
Staatsrat Meinberg RVM .
Min. Dir. Gramsch V.P.
Min. Rat Steffler V.P.
Min. Dirig. Timm GBA
Oberreg. Rat Hildebrandt GBA
Gen. Dir. Pleiger . RV Kohle
Dr. Sogemeier RV Kohle
Dr. Fischer RV Kohle
Dir. Winkaus Beauftr.f.d. Bergbaubedarf.
193
State Secret
Stenographic Transcript of the
17th Conference , of the
Central Planning
Concerning: Requirements for the increase of Coal Production held on 28 October 1942, 0930 hours at the Reich Ministry for Armament and Munitions, Berlin, Pariser Platz 3 Dr. Eggeling/Sgt.
Hildebrand: Our promises were made on the .basis of the 150>-000 prisoners of war whom Fieldmarshall Keitel had promised us for this purpose. Of these 60,000 are still missing. Several departments are passing the buck in this matter. General Wagner, the chief of supply, called on me and told me they could not supply them now and wanted time until January. They are now promised for the beginning of December.
As for the quality of the now incoming transports, apparently a weeding out already takes place in the East. The good workers among the prisoners of war are kept back and only those of inferior quality are passed on so that I cannot estimate the value of these 60,000 as high. I think we shall be able to use hardly 60% in mining.
There are, furthermore, 15,000 men in the P/W camps in the General Government. They are all right and will come as soon as the 30,000 have been expedited. Gauleiter Sauckel promised Mr. Pleiger for the coal-industry 10,000 civilian Russians who would be freed by re-directions of labor in agriculture. This was discussed yesterday with Dr. Fischer. There 10,000 men, we think, will be at the disposal of the coal industry in about a fortnight. The total will, therefore, be 115,000. We have, however, to allow for certain reductions according to the physical conditions of the men.
The recruiting of suitable civilian workers over there is very much hampered because we were repeatedly told that our recruiting personnel should give up the whole department Stalino or the Don-Donetz area because the men there were all needed. That a small number of workers from the East would remain because, at present, most of the civilian workers come just from these districts, few from others. In the new territories, among these the Caucasus district, it is still very difficult to come near but the first transports are arriving already.
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Pleiger: I have seen that with my own eyes. I have seen the new prisoners building the briquette-factory near Stalino. I have noticed that those from the Stalino district are first of all deprived of their overcoats and clothing by the Rumanians and Italians. And if one sees these figures—they are too weak to pass even a brick. They are completely down. It can serve no purpose if we send them to a resthome even before we can employ them on the coal surface.
Speer: You must not complain that the Fuehrer has taken away the grain basis from these districts.
Pleiger: No, I state only facts. They demand the coal from us.
Speer: In any case, it is quite possible to replace those prisoners of war who do not come by civilian workers from the East.
Winkhaus: At once, provided that they do not exceed 12,600. If they should be more we would have to prepare camps, remove the barbed wire, etc.
Speer: What about the mixed working. You cannot let Rus-' sian prisoners of war work side by side with civilian workers.
Winkhaus: We need not keep them so separate any more to-day.
Fischer: There is still this question. Yesterday we had a call from Austria: they could, of course, adapt Ps/W camps to civilian camps. The coal industry could overcome this question. The workers, however, make difficulties when we put the workers from the East in stables. But if Central Planning sponsors the use of civilian workers from the East then I think we could solve this problem.
Speer: Temporarily, in the long run we must find for them better accommodation than that for Ps/W.
We can, therefore, expect 32,560 Ps/W. Then we have a need of 12,000 civilian workers from the East as mentioned before and
12.000 mentioned now, i.e., a total of 24,000 for the mine proper in November less 10,000 from agriculture. That is a deficit of
14.000 plus 7,500 for industry.
* * * * * * *
State Secret
Stenographic Transcript of the
21st Conference of the
Central Planning
concerning Supply and Direction of Labor held on 30 October 1942, afteriioon at the Reich Ministry of Armament and Munition, Berlin, Pariser Platz 3
195
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Dr. Doerr Bucholz/C
[In the discussion of the labor situation in which Speer, Sauckel, Milch and Timm participated] :
Speer: We must also discuss the slackers. Ley has ascertained that the sicklist decreased to one fourth or one fifth in factories where doctors are on the staff who are examining the sick men. There is nothing to be said against SS and Police taking drastic steps and putting those known as slackers into concentration camps. There is no alternative. Let it happen several times .and the news will soon go around.
* * * * * * *
Sauckel: We talked of taking the waiters out of the restaurants in Germany. But in this respect we have absolutely an .abundance in France, the General Government and the Protectorate. - As long as we have not skimmed that off, we could not take the responsibility towards the German people for such a measure. Again a cable of the Foreign Minister has burst into my recent negotiations in France stating that under no circumstances should the Laval Ministry be put into peril. The Fuehrer has said: If the French show no good will, then I shall re-take the 800,000 French Ps/W. If they show good will, then the French wives can follow their husbands to Germany and work there. Of course, he said, I have an interest that Laval remains in power. The Laval Ministry will remain, it depends only on us. And Laval cannot go back after he has reproduced in his speech and spoken before the French passages which he has taken verbally out of my appeal. Only Petain could bring him to fall. I wish to draw your attention to the fact, however, that in France there is a surplus of young men all of whom we could use in Germany. If we expect our people to accept severest restrictions then we cannot admit such luxuries in Paris as e.g. small restaurants with bands of 25 musicians and two waiters per table. I am firmly convinced: If we are brutal also against the others then we can extract quite a considerable number of men out of the General Government—I sent an efficient man, President Struwe, over there—and of the Protectorate. This need not interfere with the armament industry over there. There is, therefore, no fear that the demand could not be met.
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The Commissioner for the 4 Years Plan, Berlin 31st October 1942
. SECRET
Central Planning Z.P.10
Results of the 21st session of the Central Planning (board) on the 30th Oct. 1942 Labor Allocation November 1942
2. Supply. The October program including 300,000 men has been carried out; during November 400,000 have to be provided. The transfer from agriculture involving 200,000 is excluded, so that altogether 600,000 will be available (the transfer from agriculture to forestry (50,000) and the assignment of domestic personnel (140,000) will be separately accounted for).
Concerning the position of prisoners of war, it was decided that the army is not to dispose of units of prisoners of war, which were put into the Todt Organization as whole units. In future, the GBA [Generalbevollmaechtigte fuer den Arbeitsein-satz—Plenipotentiary General for Labor Control] will take care of the prisoners of war from the moment they enter a stalag. The cooperation between the GBA and the Todt Organization is to be organized by discussions between Timm—Dr. Fraenck— Schmelter—Brugmann. The prohibition of recruiting of manpower in the area to the left bank of the river Don is to be applied less vigorously [Staatssekretaer Koerner]. The Fuehrer's decree concerning the prohibition in force in the Caucasus area is to be taken to mean that Gauleiter Sauckel has the order to ensure priority of the man power claim of agriculture and the crude oil exploitation in this region.
Finally, the GBA (Plenipotentiary General for Labor Control) points out that large man power reserves still exist in France, in the General Government and in the Protectorate, which must be utilized before more stringent measures are taken inside the Reich itself. An energetic combing out process will be carried out inside these regions. A further important reserve exists in the possibility of increasing the capacity for work, which may be expected particularly as a result of a better treatment of the Russians.
Present:
Secretary of State Speer General Field Marshal Milch Secretary of State Koerner Gauleiter Sauckel GBA Ministerialdirigent Timm GBA
Dr. Stef^er
19T
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Ministerialrat Letsch GBA
Ober-Regierungsrat Hildebrant GBA ,
Staatrat Schiber-Reichs Ministry for Armament and Munitions -Major Gen. Waeger-Reichs Ministry for Armament and Munitions .
Lt. Col. von Nicolai-Reichs Ministry for Armament and Munitions
Dr. Ing. Goerner-Reichs Ministry for Armament and Munitions .
Dr. Mommsen-Reichs Ministry for Armament and Munitions
Dipl. Kfm. Teuscher-Reichs Ministry for Armament and Munitions
Ministerial Director Grammsch V. P. (Voraus Personal— Advance Echelon)
Ministerial Rat Steffler V. P. '
Colonel Engineer Sellschopp RIM (Reich Air Ministry)
Colonel Rueckner (Reich Air Ministry)
and Lt. Col. Betz (Reich Air Ministry)