This letter decidely indicates that the experiments were underway and the loss of Wimmer caused the discontinuance thereof.
Now, turn to Document number NO-194 which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit Number 265. It is a letter from Rudolf Brandt to the SS-Medical Office, regarding Dr. Wimmer, dated 27 May 1943.
"On 30 April 43 the SS-Central Office forwarded a letter of SS-Standartenfuehrer Sievers with the request to bring about the transfer of Dr. Wimmer to the Waffen-SS, in agreement with the competent Luftwaffen-Inspectorate.
"In addition I am forwarding another letter today of the 'Ahnenerbe' society dated 14.5.43. I shall emphasize again that it is the SS-Reichsfuehrer's explicit wish that the transfer be performed as soon as possible, as it would be doubtful otherwise, whether the further war-important experiments of Professor Dr. Hirt, which, due to his state of health, can no longer be carried out by him alone, and could be continued.
"I beg you to inform me without delay what has been done in the matter. By order, signed Brandt."
The next letter is a letter from Rudolf Brandt, Document NO-195, which will be Prosecution Exhibit 266, dated 9 June 1943, and is addressed to the "Personal Consultant (Referent) of the Reichsmarschall. Ministerial Councillor Dr. Goernert."
"Dear Party-Member Goernert, Referring to our telephone conversation of 3.6.1943, I request your support for a very quick re-transfer of stall surgeon Dr. med. habil. Karl Wimmer who was transferred to the XI Air Corps from the Luftwaffe Medical (Sanitation) Training Department VII at the Anatomical Institute of the University of Strasbourg despite the understanding that he was to remain.
"Dr. Wimmer was at the disposal of Professor Dr. Hirt for his warimportant gas experiments. Further details on the experiments could be given to you by SS-Standartenfuehrer Sievers, Berlin-Dahlem, Puecklerstrasse 16.
"Steps are already being taken via the Medical Office to have Dr. Wimmer transferred to the Waffen-SS. I should appreciate your expediting this matter through your support.
Heil Hitler, Brandt."
The next document is Document NO-492-PS which will be offered as Prosecution Exhibit Number 267. The letter is dated 20 September 1944 from, obviously, the office of Rudolf Brandt of the Personal Staff of the Entonological Institute of the Waffen-SS, in care of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Schuetrumpf. Re: Temporary employment of two female assistants of Professor Dr. Hirt, Strasbourg.
"Dear Comrade Schuetrumpf: I herewith confirm the telegram which was sent to you today. Technical female assistants of Waischenfeld for the present sent again to Strasbourg to collect scientific material. Arrival at Cachau will be announced in due time. This is, however, not to be expected before 26 September 1944.
"As the evacuation of the Strasbourg office is not yet concluded for the time being and permanent working material will be packed and made ready for transportation, both helpers will be employed for the time being until 3.9.1944. Heil Hitler,..." and here we have handwritten initials..."SSObersturmfuehrer."
The next letter which is a part of this document NO-492-PS, is a letter from Sievers, a certificate, dated 3 November 1943.
"Department H,..." department Hirt..."Strasbourg, of the institute for Military Scientific Research, by order of the Reich Minister of the Interior, Reichsfuehrer-SS Heinrich Himmler and of the Reich Minister for Aviation Supreme Commander of the Luftwaffe, President of the Reich Council for Research, Herman Goering, is carrying out research tasks of military important, for the accomplishment of which health-damaging poisons have to be used.
"In the course of the researches the collaborators: Dr. Wimmer and Frl. Schmitt have now contracted injuries to their health which according to the opinion of an official doctor can only be removed through an increased supply of fat and milk. In order to prevent the loss of both assistants through further health disorders, persons which we cannot afford losing, a preventative treatment of the occurred injuries is absolutely necessary. For this a special ration of butter and unskimmed milk is necessary without cutting the rations of meat and food-stuffs which are due to them so far.
"In the interest of the defense of the country no indications can be made as to the nature of work which is to be carried out by the Institute for Military Scientific Research. Signed Sievers."
We turn now to Document NO-099 which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit Number 268. This is a report from "The Institute for Military Scientific Research, Department H of the Research and Instruction Society "Ahnenerbe", Strasbourg, Anatomical Institute.
"Proposed Treatment of Poisoning Caused by Lost (By Professor Dr. A. Hirt and Staff Surgeon of the Luftwaffe; Professor (Dozent) Dr. Wimmer, Strasbourg, 1944).
"General Observations: The effect of Lost as a poison gas is immediate and, by causing other pathological reactions within the cells and organs, it damages the entire efficiency or the individual cell as well as that of the organs. The organism stands the best chance of absorbing the damage caused by Lost, if there is a large vitamin reserve in the body. In administering the vitamin treatment after Lost damage has been inflicted, care must be taken that the medicaments are not administered indiscriminately. The vitamin combinations (A,B complex,C) taken orally or vitamin Bl administered intravenously in glucose suspension have proved most effective. Both methods aim at raising the resistance of the reticulo-endothelial system, while simultaneously introducing therapeutic measures to protect the liver which can be further strengthened by food with a high carbohydrate and vitamin content. When definite damage to the organs (liver, cardiac muscles, kidneys) manifests itself, vitamin treatment has to be discontinued and injections of Bl glucose substituted, as the excretion of the surplus quantity of vitamins results in a temporary additional over stimulation of the cells of the excretory organs. In addition the interconnection between the effect of sulfonamide and vitamin B complex should be noted. In the case of pulmonary complications (bronchial pneumonia, pulmonary abscess) which are treated with sulfonamides, the administration of yeast is definitely not indicted.
"The general treatment; as set forth, especially the administration of vitamin Bl glucose, has a salutory effect also on the healing of cutaneous necrosis. In average and serious cases the length of the healing process can be thereby be considerably decreased. Supporting measures to be taken are bandaging the affected limb in splints until the appearance of clean granulation or placing the patient in a suitable recumbent position as well as vigorous, systematic psychotherapy. The psychological influencing of the largely apathetic Lost patient constitutes an essential part of the treatment, due to the possibility of thereby influencing the parasympathetic system (circulation, circulatory system).
"Outline of Treatment: 1. All the directions given for the elimination of the Lost poison are to be followed carefully. Only after elimination of the poison has resulted may Lost patients be treated and accommodated together in closed rooms. (Inhalation of Lost vapors.)
"2. Damp dressings with Rivalol (.1% - .0-5%) and Trypaflavin (.1%) have proved to be a successful treatment of the skin systems (reddening, swelling, blisters) of the first to fourth day. If necessary, ointment dressings (10% codliver oil-tannic ointment, boric acid ointment, etc.) may be applied. With the opening of the blisters, the exposed corium of the skin becomes extremely sensitive to the drying reflex. Introductory treatment; daily bathing with a potassium permanganate solution, constant damp dressings of Rivanol-Tripaflavin solution; later on ointment dressings (5% codliver oil-tannic ointment; boric acid ointment). With the development of cutaneous necrosis and increasing disinfection of the affected pats of the skin, the damp dressings are to be substituted -- if only for nursing reasons-- by ointment dressings after bathing with a potassium permanganate solution at body temperature which are to be changed daily. Usually after the 17th day, the necrotic spots on the skin can be done away with by drying them up or better still by brushing them off (under narcosis if necessary) with a potassium permanganate solution. In this way the local healing process is considerably shortened.
With the beginning of the knitting of the skin granulation stimulating ointment dressings (alternately codliver oil ointment, boric acid ointment, unguentine, etc. are sufficient. Lexer's codliver ointment (only 2 hours painfull) can provide a strong stimulus should gramulation formation be slow and drag itself out.
3. General treatment of average and serious Lost damage begins with administering a vitamin mixture compounded as follows; Vitamine (in the form of Vogane oil (Voganoel) increasing from 4 to 10 drops daily. Vitamin C (Cantan-Cebion tablets) 2 tablets 3 times daily. Yeastpower 3 teaspoonsful daily. One should consider whether a vitamin coumpound of similar preparation if need be with the addition of glucose should be produced for the combat troops. such a powder mixture would have to be administered in increasing quantities as well. In all cases of absorbed Lost damage (liver damage indicated by increased secretion of urobilinogen, in the urine, later icteric skin coloring. cardiac muscle damage with tachycardics, kidney damage with albumen secretion in the urine) treatment with vitamin mixtures is to be discontinued and to be substituted by injections of vitamine B glucose. Injections are to be given slowly, since at the height of Lost damage the veins of tho arms incline to thrombosis. In the latter case glucose has to be administered orally and Vitamine B intramuscularly. There exists the possibility, in every case of considerable Lost damage, of a sudden failure of circulation (frequently between the 17th and 17th day) indicated by a weak response to heard and dirculatory stimulants. Heart stimulants (strophantine coffein, digitalis) and dirculatory stimulants (sympatol, priscol, camphor, cardiazole), have therefore to be administered with care in serious cases. The therapeutic routine valid for all clinical treatment is particularly valid for cases of organic damage.
Here is another report on page 43 of your Honor's document book. It is document NO 085, by August Hirt. which will offered at this time as Prosecution Exhibit No. 269. I suggest that the Tribunal read this, However, I will not read it at this time but I do wish to call your attention to the sentence on the top of page 44 in connection with Lost, where he states that "During the war I examined the effect of yellowcross chemical warfare agent (Lost) on living tissue (not yet published)." And he outlines his various projects in this report and his various researches in flourescent light and researches on normal functions of organs, liver, kidneys, etc.
The next document on page 47 of your Honor's document book No 012 will be offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 270. It is a letter from Karl Brandt, The General Commissioner of the Fuehrer for Sanitation and Health, to Himmler. This is dated 8 March 1944 and reads: "Reich Fuehrer: Enclosed please find the photostatic copy of an order of the Fuehrer which shall only be known to a very limited extent.
"Upon the instruction of the Reich Marshal may I also request you to make this known to only the absolutely essential and loading personalities in your sphere of activity.
"I myself would be grateful if you would induce those men on their part to get in touch with me (Tel. 120050 extension 183) so that, due to the urgency of the given order, I will be able to settle the matter with the greatest expediency. Heil Hitler! (Signed) Karl Brandt (Prof. Brandt). (handwritten marginal notation) For GA Reich Legal Gazette 'Ahnenerbe "Society."
Unfortunately, when we found this document we were unable to find the attached copy of the order of the Fuehrer but with the future documents I will introduce we will indicate to the Tribunal the nature of Fuehrer order.
The next letter is document NO 013, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 271. This is from Rudolf Brandt, dated 10 March 1944, addressed to Dr. Grawitz, Reichsarzt SS and Police SS Gruppenfuehrer. "Enclosed I am sending you a copy of a Fuehrer Decree of 1 March 1944 for your perusal and action.
The Reichsfuehrer SS requests you to get in touch on your own initiative with Professor Brandt (Tel 120050, extension 183) in regard to the urgency of the order given him by the Fuehrer.
Heil Hitler! (signature) R. Brandt."
The next letter, page 49 of your Honor's document book, document No. NO-013b, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 272 is also dated 10 March 1944. It is a letter from Rudolf Brandt to Sievers in the same regard. He says: "Dear Comrade Sievers:
"I sent you in the enclosed copy an order of the Fuehrer of 1 March 1944, with the request to take note and act in the matter. The Reichsfuehrer SS is requesting you to contact Professor Brandt (Telephone: 120050, ext. 183) on account of tho urgency of the instructions given him by the Fuehrer. Heil Hitler."
The next is document NO-013c, which is offered at this time as prosecution Exhibit No. 275. This is 10 March the same date as the other letter, addressed to Chief of the SS Leader Head Office SS Obergruppenfuehrer Juettner: "Obergruppenfuehrer: Enclosed I am sending you a copy of a Fuehrer decree of 1 March 1844 with the request of perusal and action. Heil Hitler! R. Brandt." Now, the answer to this letter, of 10 March 1944, to Rudolf Brandt in this connection. The next document is NO 014, Prosecution Exhibit No. 275, from the SS Gruppenfuehrer and Reichsarzt, Dr. Grawitz, addressed to Rudolf Brandt. "I am confirming the arrival today of your letter of 10 March 44, file No. 1888/44 top secret, sent, according to the receipt, on 14 March 44 with the Fuehrer's secret order attached, and immediately got in touch with Professor Brandt."
We turn new to document No. NO-015, which contains the secret correspondence. Now, this document is introduced as Prosecution Exhibit No. 274; and with the mimeographed copy before your Honors, the date at the top is 11 April 1946, which is obviously a typographical error which should be changed to April 11 1944. This is addressed to Rudolf Brandt by Sievers. "According to instructions I contacted SS Brigadefuehrer, Prof. Dr. Brandt and reported to him on 31 March 1944 at Beelitz about the research activities of SS Hauptsturm fuehrer Prof. Dr. Hirt. On that occasion, I gave him the plans we had cut out by this time by Prof.
Hirt for treatment against L-infections of which I enclose a copy so you can show it to the Reichsfuehrer-SS if necessary.
"Prof. Brandt explained to me that he would be in Strassbourg during the first week in April and would then discuss details with Prof. Hirt and got in touch with me again afterwards. I shall always keep you informed."
Now, we are beginning to see the light as to what this official decree contained. This decree is a decree which gave Karl Brandt the authority to carry out reach in chemical warfare. Therefore, all these matters were of extreme interest to him and, as you see, Brandt stated in his letter that he would be in Strassbourg during the first week in April and he would then discuss the details with Professor Hirt in regard to experiments on human beings in Camp Natzweiler that were being carried out at that time.
The next is document No. NO-016-A, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 276. This is dated 9 June 1944 and is a letter from the Commissioner-General of the Fuehrer on health and medical matters, Karl Brandt, addressed to the Reichsfuehrer SS, Berlin.
"Reichsfuehrer: Prisoners are employed, with best results, in several K factories and in plants producing chemical warfare protection articles. I inspected the camps on several occasions and was, on the whole, favourably impressed by them.
"In this connection, however, I was often informed of the difficulties encountered when accommodating new prisoners. the accommodation and security measures involved, a double or triple, partly electrified fence, quite of ten cause far-reaching difficulties and occasionally great delays. Would it be possible to introduce, in this connection, some improvements? I would be grateful if this question could be examined by one of your experts. Heil Hitler! Your (signature) Karl Brandt."
Here is Brandt and his interest as Plenipotentiary, so to speak, on the chemical warfare, examining the factories producing those chemical warfare production articles, suggesting in his official capacity to the Reichsfuehrer that conditions be renovated in these various camps.
We turn now to document No. NO-016-B, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 277. This is dated June 19, 1944, from defendant Rudolf Brandt, addressed to Pohl of the WVHA. "Dear Obergruppenfuehrer: I would be grateful if you would let me know your opinion on the request of SS Gruppenfuehrer Prof. Dr. Brandt, before I inform the Reichsfuehrer SS of it. I enclose o copy of the letter of SS Gruppenfuehrer Prof. Dr. Brandt. (Signed) Rudolf Brandt.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will now recess until one-thirty o'clock.
(A recess was taken until 1330 hours.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
MR. MCHANEY: May it please the Tribunal, we will read Document No. 016(c) in our presentation, which is on page 55 of the English Document Book, and we offer this Document as Prosecution's Exhibit No. 278. This is a letter from Pohl, Chief of the SS-Economic and Administrative Main Office to the defendant Rudolf Brandt. It is dated 22 June 1933, and it is in response to the letter written by the defendant Karl Brandt with respect to his inspection of certain factories which were manufacturing gas. The letter reads as follows:
"Dear Comrade Dr. Brandt:
"The Reichsfuehrer SS gave me for further action, your letter of June 9th 1944, concerning conditions of prisoners working in several K-factories."
I might say, parenthetically, K-factories mean gas factories.
"Accommodation of prisoners is exclusively the task of contractors, to whom the prisoners are allotted by us. On such occasions, definite obligations are placed upon contractors. Security reasons make their carrying out absolutely imperative.
"The day before yesterday, I asked the Reichsfuehrer SS, when I reported to him, whether I could allow some improvements in this connection. The Reichsfuehrer SS answered in the negative.
"I am ready, notwithstanding. to discuss with contractor concerned individual cases, if desirable.
"I would, therefore, be grateful if you would inform me about the places, where difficulties have arisen.
"Heil Hitler!
"(Signed) Pohl."
There is a note on the bottom as follows:
"NB. Gruppenfuehrer Dr. Brandt has not yet replied", on the "20 July 1944", with the signature "Fauler."
This letter, along with the other one from the defendant Karl Brandt indicates he had, at least, extensive influence and power with respect to chemical warfare problems.
And, this power undoubtedly arose out of further orders which he received in March 1944 concerning gas warfare.
We come on to Document No. 005, which will be Prosecution's Exhibit No. 273. This letter is to Heinrich Himmler, and it concerns a request for concentration camp inmates for experimental purposes in connection with the gas known as N-substance. The letter is dated 22 November 1944, and the originator of the letter has not been determined as the signature is illegible. The subject of the letter is: "Experiments with N-substance."
"Reference: Order of Reich-Leader SS of 15 May 1944.
"To: Reich-Leader SS H. Himmler.
"Reich Leader:
"The Chief of the Technical Office in the SS-Chief Administrative Office, SS-Gruppenfuehrer Schwab, has contacted me in September of this year with the request to furnish him with 2 doctors, who as medical experts were to witness experiments with N-substance, which he was carrying out at the time by order of the Fuehrer. This was above all a matter of the clarification of the question, if N-substance was to be considered for chemical warfare or otherwise.
"For this purpose I have furnished my leading pathologist, SSHauptsturmfuehrer University Teacher Dr. Sachs, as well as the doctor working on ancestrial heritage --"
Which means the Ahnenerbe Society.
"SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer, University Teacher Dr. Ploetner."
The Tribunal will recall, we have here Dr. Ploetner who was mentioned previously in connection with experiments at Dachau, more particularly with the blood coagulation experiments there. And, Dr. Ploetner was the head of Department in the Ahnenerbe Society. The letter continues:
"In accordance with these investigation experiments carried out on 23 September 1944, the necessity Ms now arisen to carry out several experiments on human beings for the final clarification of the physiological effect of N-substance on an through the human skin. Five prisoners are necessary for the execution of these experiments.
It is highly improbable that the experiment will cause any permanent damage.
"In accordance with your order of 15 May 1944, Reich-leader, I have obtained the opinion of SS-Gruppenfuehrer Professor Gebhardt, SS-Gruppenfuehrer Bluecks and SS-Oberfuehrer Panzinger. They read as follows:
"1.) SS Gruppenfuehrer Professor Dr. Gebhardt:
"'I am certainly in agreement with the suggestion, and request that the directions for the supervision of the carrying out be issued directly by the Reich Doctor-SS and the Police.!
"2.) SS-Gruppenfuehrer Gluecks.
"'I have received your letter of 7 November 1944 with regard to the procurement of five prisoners for the experiments which are to be carried out with N-substance.
"'For this purpose I have had five prisoners who have been condemned to death in the Sachsenhausen concentration camp placed in readiness, on whom these experiments can be carried out.'
"3.) SS-Oberfuehrer Panzinger:
"'From the point of view of the criminal police the experiments intended there are to be welcomed. Therefore no misgivings exist against the handing over of prisoners for inoculation.
"'If political prisoners should be considered, the Chief of Office IV, SS-Gruppenfuehrer Mueller, would still have to be consulted, but he will certainly likewise grant permission'".
The letter continues:
"I respectfully request the transmittal of the permission, so that the experiments can be initiated.
"Heil Hitler!
"(illegible signature)."
We see, however, from the letterhead which is the Reich Doctor SS and Police that this letter originated from the office of Doctor Grawitz. Now, of course, we have several defendants in the dock who were in the office of the Reich Doctor SS and Police; among those being the defendants Mrugowsky and Poppendick.
This letter is quite interesting for several reasons, not the least, which is this order of 15 May 1944, which is mentioned here on page 56.
The writer of this letter says: "In accordance with your order, "meaning Himmler's order of 15 May, 1944, "I have obtained the opinion of SS-Gruppenfuehrer Prof. Gebhardt, SS-Gruppenfuehrer Gluecks, and SS-Oberfuehrer Panzinger." Now, it seems that there will be little question but that this order in fact meant that medical experimentation on concentration camp inmates had to be cleared through those three individuals because in the letter itself they are asking permission from Heinrich Himmler to carry out these experiments.
The writer of the letter says. "In accordance with your letter of 15 May 1944 I have gotten the opinions of Gebhardt, Gluecks, and Panzinger."
And who is Gebhardt? He is the defendant in the dock who was the chief surgeon in the office of the deceased Dr. Grawitz. Who was Gluecks? Gluecks was head of Ant D in the Economic and Administrative Office, Main Office of the SS, which had administrative control ever concentration camps. Hence they had to go to him and advise him of medical experiments to be carried out on concentration camp inmates. Who is Panzinger? Panzinger was one of the chief officials in the criminal police; and he is being consulted in this instance because the suggestion is made that they will experiment on criminal prisoners. But it is interesting to note that SS-Oberfuehrer Panzing says if the political prisoners should be considered, then you must go to another agency; you must go to Gruppenfuehrer Mueller, who was one of the distinguished gentlemen in the Gestapo. So we see in this one little document how these matters were handled and cleared before they were carried through.
The document also proves that contrary to using criminal prisoners exclusively, the letter itself shows that political prisoners can be used; but if you wanted them you had to go to Mueller.
This completes the presentation of documents on the Lost experiments for the moment. I would like to go back, however, and call the Court's attention again to the letter on Page 52 of the English document book. That is Document NO-015 and was introduced as Prosecution Exhibit 275. Then we submit that this letter in and of itself brings home criminal information to the defendant Karl Brandt of the experiments which were carried out with Lost gas on living human beings.
You will recall that this Fuehrer order concerning chemical warfare, which was received by the defendant Karl Brandt, was forwarded in copy to Himmler's office, with the request that it be distributed to the necessary agencies in the SS; and it is interesting to note who got the order.
One of the first men to get it was the famous Dr. Grawitz. One of the other gentlemen to get it was the defendant Sievers, leader of the Ahnenerbe Society and its Institute for Military and Scientific Research, which had by 1944, a considerable background of experience in experimentation on living subjects. Who else got it? The Fuehrungshauptamt, headed by Hans Goettner. Why did he get it? He got it for the reason that he was chief of the operational headquarters of the Waffen SS. In other words, it was his agency which directed the fighting troops of the SS in the field; and as such he, of course, was considerably interested in problem of chemical warfare.
So I think it is important to note to whom the Reichsfuchrer considered it important to distribute this Karl Brandt Fuehrer order. But, coming back to Sievers' letter, which is Prosecution Exhibit 275, he reports to Rudolf Brandt that he has been in touch with Karl Brandt and reported to him in the latter part of March, 1944, about the research activities of Prof. Hirt; and, of course, by this date a not inconsiderable number of living human beings had been experimented on and killed by this same Prof. Hirt and his associates in the concentration camps of Sachsenhausen and Natzweiler. Sievers gave Karl Brandt the plans worked out by this time by Prof. Hirt for treatment of Lost infection and Prof. Brandt, that is, Karl Brandt, explained that he would be in Strassburg the first week in April and would then discuss the details with Prof. Hirt.
Of course, the Tribunal will recall that the University of Strassbourg was where Prof. Hirt was engaged or supposed to be engaged in the teaching of students, medical students; and it will be interesting to put the question to Karl Brandt, if and when he takes the stand in this case, as to whether he did in fact go to Strassbourg and if so what he had to say to Prof.
Hirt.
It should also be remembered that the affidavit of he defendant Rudolf Brandt concerning experiments with mustard gas very explicitly and clearly states that experiments on human beings continued after the date when Karl Brandt received the Fuehrer order concerning chemical warfare. I therefore think the proof is clear that the defendant Karl Brandt bears indeed a major share of responsibility in the crimes which were perpetrated during the course of these experiments.
I would like at this time to have the witness Ferdinand Holl called to the stand.
THE PRESIDENT: The Marshal will summon the witness Ferdinand Holl.
FERDINAND HOLL, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
JUDGE SEBRING: The witness will raise his right hand and take the oath, repeating after me:
I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
JUDGE SEBRING: You may sit down.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. McHANEY:
Q. Witness, your name is Ferdinand Holl?
A. Yes.
Q. Your last name is spelled H-o-l-l ?
A. Yes, that's correct.
Q. You were born on 21 December 1900 at Landsweiler-Reden, Kreis Ottweiler?
A. That is correct.
Q. You are a German citizen?
A. I am a German citizen.
Q. And you are at present domiciled at 6 Wilhelmstrasse, in LandsweilerReden?
A. Yes, 6 Wilhelmstrasse at Lansweiller-Reden.
Q. What is your present occupation, Witness?
A. I am now a business manager.
Q. Did you say a business manager?
A. Yes.
Q. What business do you manage, Witness?
A. I am business manager in a cinema.
Q. Now, have you always lived in Germany, Witness?
A. Until my emigration in 1935.
Q. And to what place did you emigrate, Witness?
A. I emigrated to France.
Q. And did you emigrate from the Saar?
A. Yes.
Q. Why did you leave the Saar in 1935?
A. Because of political reasons.
Q. Was it in that year that the Saar was returned to Germany?
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. How long did you stay in France?
A. Until the time I was arrested by the Gestapo at Bordeaux.
Q. And when was that, please, Witness?
A. That was on the 11th of October, 1940.
Q. Will you please tell the Tribunal why you were arrested by the Gestapo?
A. In 1935 I went to France as a political emigrant because I was an anti-nazi. I worked in France as a metal worker until 1940. Then upon the occupation by German troops I was arrested at Bordeaux by the Gestapo. I was taken to Germany into the Buchenwald concentration camp.
Q. When did you arrive in Buchenwald?
A. It must have been approximately in the middle of December, 1940.
Q. Were you a political or criminal prisoner in Buchenwald?
A. I was a political prisoner.
Q. Did you wear the red triangle?
A. I wore the red triangle.
Q. How long did. you stay in Buchenwald?
A. I remained in Buchenwald until March, 1942.
Q. What happened to you then?
A. In 1492 a transport went to Natzweiler in order to construct that camp.
Q. What work did you perform in Natzweiler, Witness?
A. In Natzweiler I worked on stones from the stone pile for about two weeks. Then I went to the hospital. I was then a medical assistant.
Q. Now did you ever hear of the Ahnenerbe Institute or Ahnenerbe Station at the Natzweiler Concentration Camp?
A. This Ahnenerbe Station there was under my supervision.
Q. Well now what do you mean by "it was under your supervision"? Do you mean to say you were all nurses in that part of the hospital under the direction of the Ahnenerbe?
A. In October, 1942, Professor Dr. Hirt came into this camp and in the block which was the hospital, at that time it was divided into two parts. One section was considered as Ahnenerbe and the other one was further treated as a hospital for the inmates. I had this whole block with the Ahnenerbe subordinate to me as the so-called Kapo or Capo of the Ahnenerbe.
Q. In other words, you were something in the nature of a chief nurse in the Ahnenerbe?
A. Yes.
Q. Now did you have any occasion while you were working as a nurse in the Ahnenerbe to witness any experiments carried out on living human beings?
A. Yes, I personally was present.
Q. Will you please explain to the Tribunal exactly what you saw and what happened?
A. In the middle of October when the Ahnenerbe had finished its preparations several inmates were selected by Professor Dr. Hirt who were still in good physical shape and who still were at least looking healthy, and they were brought into this room. There were two rooms all together, and in each room fifteen men were billetted. Then first of all these people were given SS food for approximately two weeks and then the experiments were begun. Then these people were taken to the pathological department and there the first experiments with liquid gas substance were made.
Q. When was this liquid gas experiment made, witness?
A. It was immediately after the Ahnenerbe had been completed.
Q. That would be in October or November, 1942, then?
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. And how many persons were used in this first liquid gas experiment?
A. As I have already previously mentioned there were two rooms and in each room fifteen men were billetted. Therefore, there were thirty persons all together.
Q. Now, witness, were these persons concentration camp inmates?
A. Only.
Q. Do you know whether or not these concentration camp inmates volunteered to be experimented upon?
A. Professor Hirt before selecting these people gave them a lecture and told them that if some of them would volunteer he would speak with Himmler and see that these people would be released. However, in the camp it had become common knowledge that other experiments were being carried out in other camps, so that nobody volunteered. Then these people were just called up.
Q. Were political as well as criminal prisoners among the experimental subjects?
A. Without exception.
Q. And were nationalities other than -- were persons of nationalities other than Germans selected?
A. At that time there were Russians, Poles, Czechs and Germans in the camp.
Q. And were some of these other nationalities included among these experimental subjects?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, will you tell the Tribunal in your own words about this first experiment carried out with liquid gas, just what you saw happen, whether or not any of the experimental subjects died, whether they suffered any pain, etc?
A. In the first experiments, Professor Hirt and the German Luftwaffe Officer who was carrying out the experiments had the prisoners completely undressed and they came into the laboratory one after the other and then I had to hold their arms and they received ten centimeters above the lower arm and there was one drop of the fluid put upon that part of the arm. Then the people who had been treated in such a way had to go into an adjoining room.