Q Well, now, Doctor, let us not be childish about this thin. Hoven, Mrugowsky, Ding, and the diary substantiate the fact that this typhus station at Buchenwald was established by virtue of your orders. and I am going to road again, and you have read it Grhaps a thousand times in the last few weeks; I am Ding to real again from the Ding diary, which has been introduce as Prosecution's Exhibit -- Document No. 265, which is Exhibit No. 237, and it says: "By order of the Surgeon General of the Waffen-SS, SS Gruppenfuehrer and Generalleutenant of the Waffen-SS, Dr. Genzken, the bither to existing spotted fever research station the concentration camp Buchenwal *** *es the Department for spotted fever and virus research. The head of the department will be SS-Stunmannfuehrer Dr. Ding During his a sense, the station medical officer of the Waffen SS Meisar, SS Hauptsturufuehrer Have will supervise the production of vaccines. The chief of the acdemic and administrative head quarters, SS Oberru**enfuehrer and Lt. General of the Waffen SS Pohl, orders the extension of the block of stone buldings.
"SS Sturphannfuehrer Dr. Ding is appointed at the same time as chief department and for Special visions in AT XVI (Hygiene), of the group department (Kints ruppe) D (medical affairs of the Waffen SS) if the SS aim headquarters."
That was the appointment of **, at this time as Chief Department 16, which you had direct central of. ** interferenrce by Grawitz; that was under your immediate subornation Department 16 that was not reorganized until we must. This took place on the 9th may of January accerting to Ding's diary, obviously his took place a little world; r, perhaps their three weeks earlier. You state now, Dr. Ding was not your subordinate in 1943, when he was conducting those experiments. Mrgowsky Ding was your subordinate?
A There are several matters contained here which I have to clarify. It was not the office of Department 16, it was Mrgowsky and there was never a man in other of 16, and this is also shown by the affidavit which I have the. Furthermore, it cannot the stated that an order was given to establish that station.
That was only a place in block 50 for the new production establish which was to be created there. And then the date of january, I have already objected to this morning. I want to clarify that because the Ding diary has been presented at the same those, so that this cafe is already incorrect; and therefore the name was already given at a later period of time when Mrugowsky reported the production of 30,000 portions. That the experimental station which has already existed for a long time. It is shown according to the statement of Hoven, Hoven states quite already in one spot, and perhaps I have it before me -- and he states approximately the initiative for giving it the name for Section for typhus and virus research, this originated with Dr. Ding. There was not an order, an order was not given. It was a suggestion of Ding's to which Genzken gave his approval. These are statements which Hoven made, which I have just mentioned. Therefore, if I may summarize: If what is contained in the diary is derrest, then it must be stated that I only have the approval for change of the starting out. That is, Pohl gave the permission for the recent construction and from the report of 1943, it is shown that the construction of this station lasted until 15 August, and then because of the lack of machinery, which halted this production establishment in Block 50 until December. It was at a period of time when this establishment had already come under the agency of Grawitz, and it was not subordinated anymore to me.
Q well, now, Doctor, you state that was the only thing, and -
A (Interposing) That was a very clear description. That was a very clear description out I have never given an order for any research
Q Now, you state that Haven said on stand that this name initiated with Ding, asked your decision to use the name. Did you deny that Ding asked your decision to use the name -
A (Interposing) That is quite possible, some, agreement may have been reached about that, but this suggestion was made or as Koven stated, that be made this suggestion and I gave approval; that may be possible. It is quite possible.
Q How would he need your approval?
A Or it might have been reported over Mrugowsky, I didn't know. I cannot remember that anymore.
Q Why would he need your approval. You tell us now when Ding rent to the experimental research station he was no 1 or subordinate to you. What would he did asking you if you could name such a thing for it he was you subordinate.
A. Well, this production establishment which had been planned that in block 50 it Should start as department of the Hygiene Institute, an its operation was postponed, from august 1943, and that is clearly showed by statement of Koven. They only moved in block 50 in the while of must.
Q. Well, now, block 46 in the Buchewald Concentration Camp was set up in 1941, was it not according to Ding's diary, January 1942 as a matter of fret?
A Yes in the spring of 1942 probably.
A Under the command of Dr. Mrugowsky.
A No under the command of Mr. Ding and an order of Dr. Grawitz, as already Kagen has stated. It is stated in the Kagen testimony subordinate to Grawitz.
Q. How Did Ding report to-
A (Interposing) As iI have seen here from the files, the report if they went ever Mrgowsky, and some of them went directly, according to the testimony, they were passed on the Reich Physician SS. He could report to Himmler in accordance with Kogen and Balioewsky, who stated indirectly that he had a special interest in this arrangement, and that he had reported on it, and that he wanted to know everything which was required in this connection.
Q Didn't Mrugowsky report-
A (Interposing) And, I never received any scientific report from the experimental station. I never seen them and I never received them. I stated that quite clearly in the several questions in my preliminary interrogation.
Q Did Mrugowsky report to you? He said he did.
A He did it in the spring of 1943 when it could be seen what the results of the production of Typhus vaccine would be. Altogether, there were 40,000 portions, and 10,000 were intended for the concentration camps, and 30,000 portions were to be for the Waffen SS.
Q Now, let me read to you Mrugowsky: affidavit, the one in which your Defense counsel introduced his supplement to this morning, which did not change it in immediate. The Date was change but not the substance. That was Prosecution's Exhibit No. 423, and offered as Exhibit No. 262. In the second paragraph Mrugowsky states:
"By reason of my position as Chief Hygiene Officer of the Waffen SS and Chief of AMT XVI in the SS operational main Office and later of the Office III in the staff of the Reich physician SS and police, I obtained well knowledge of the position and activities of Dr. karl Genzken and of the position and work of Dr. Edward Ding who was the Chief of the Department for Spotted Fever and Virus Research at the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS at the Buchenwald Concentration Camp. Several times I received reports to which charts were attached from Dr. Ding indicating the results of the experiments carried out there an I reported on those matters to Dr. Ganzken, an occasion which shall be described later. I visited the wave named department in the Buchenwal concentration camp several times. Supervision of the research and the manufacture of several fever vaccine carried out there was part of my scope of duties.
"Due to position I gained complete knowledge of the official connection between Dr. Genzken and Ding. Therefore, I am able to make this statement on that subject.
"Genzken was my immediate superior from 1940 until September 1, 1943 At that time a reorganization of the SS Medical Service was carried out and I was placed directly under Dr. Grawitz, then Reich Physician SS and Police.
In the beginning of 1942 --"
The amendment now states it should be 1943, according to the affidavit put in this morning, -
"Dr. Genzken ordered the foundation of the Department for Spotted Fever and Virus Research at the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS in the Buchenwal Concentration Camp and appointed Dr. Ding as Chief of this department. As I was at that time Chief of AXT XVI Hygiene in the SS Operational main Office, I was the immediate superior of Dr. Ding."
Now, will you go back to that sentence. "As I w.s at that time," prior to your setting up that production station, "Chief of the AMT XVI, I was the immediate superior of Dr. Ding." Indicating that he was the superior of Dr. Ding at the experimental research station, which existed, for nearly a year before the production station, and Mrugowsky was your subordinate. Now, I will be on to paragraph 5 of that affidavit:
"Dr. Genzken knew as a matter of course, that the Institute was founded, for the purpose of providing the Waffen SS with an efficient vaccine against spotted fever. On the Department for Spotted Fever and Virus research at Buchenwal, Medical experiments on inmates of the Buchenwald Concentration Camp were carried out by Dr. Ding in order to determine the effect of various spotted fever vaccines.
"In April 1943 I made an report to Dr. Genzken on the results of experiments not productions, experiments carried cut this far.
In this report u gave the necessary explanations and showed Dr. Genzken some charts which were sent to me by Dr. Ding's office, and which indicated the fever and pulse curves, the dates of the vaccination and artificial infection, the death rates, duplications which arose, etc. One cf the experimental series shown in the charts was carried cut on people who were only infected out not vaccinated in -order to find cut the potency of the vaccines used in other eases."
Q New, Doctor, this report that Dr. Mrugrowsky made to you, was it not obvious from the report that experimentations were made on human beings?
A No.
A No, various things can he said in that connection and I would like to hear Professor Mrugowsky in this connection when he acts to the witness stand. I was charged with, block 50, block 46 as Chief of the Production Facilities and I have stated that it can only have been information which was brief and did not go into- detail and I am only surprised that he reported these 30,000 portions to me, and that he reported to me about the vaccine, and that the vaccine which was being produced for the SS was the best. In the meantime I have thought of this discussion and it certainly must have been very brief. I believe that I can remember that both of us were standing at the time. I would like to hear Dr. Mrugowsky when he takes the witness stand. I can only emphasize once more that if this had been a detailed discussion then I would have had an idea about the big figures of the experimental series, and as far as I remember 16 experimental series were made for typhus and 13 of another kind with a total of 29. Furthermore, the big figures of the experimental subjects which almost reached a thousand and the big number of fatalities which comes approximately to 210, and I can state here under oath that I did not know anything about what was going on. I did not knew that Hovan was Ding's deputy. I did not know that Ding and Us institute worked together with foreign scientists and I have only received knowledge about this from a certain Dr. Eyer and finally Dr. Kogan's personality is such that 1 can say something about these tilings, above all I want to state under oath those arc things which only came to my knowledge here in the Palace of Justice, and it is exactly the sane thing with the infections which were earned out. I did not hear anything about them from Mrugowsky.
Q How do you deny that mrugowsky showed you the fever charts and curves and reports as he stated here in his affidavit?
A I have already stated that in an interrogation that I cannot remember any documents. A I have already stated the conversation was very brief and we were both standing and that can oily have boon in the days when, as I have already stated this morning, I was returned from the front at Leningrad when I had gall colic at Reiga and when I only returned to my agency for a short period in order to settle work which had accumulated.
Then I was being treated as a result of my gall colic. That i what 1 have to take into consideration in that connection, what I have stated under oath.
Q But you don't deny that Mrugowsky showed you those fever curves and charts? You don't deny that, do you?
A I have just stated that I cannot remember - I cannot remember that he had any documents with him, but I cannot answer in the affirmative and 1 do not deny it.
Q Didn't you state in an interrogation last October that you thought you could vaguely remember a conversation you had with Mrugowsky, and that the fever curves did not indicate to you that people were artificially infected. Didn't you say that last October in an interrogation here in Nurnberg?
A It was as follows: When I was told. I did not have to give my testimony without first consulting my defense counsel, and at that time without a defense counsel I was confronted by Mrugowsky. We actually were not confronted with each other but we had our backs to each other. I was behind Mrugowsky so that I was even unable to see his face and Mrugowsky did not have the word but the interrogator took the word from Mrugowsky and they told me those things in a similar manner as you are telling them to me now and he told me, among other things, when I said I cannot remember that I was informed about the fact infections are made, and he stated if you don't want to call your comrade here a liar, we will follow up this matter to where it will state that I wasn't calling Mrugowsky a liar. I regarded Mrugowsky as a man I had worked with for many years and I couldn't imagine that he should have said anything which should not be correct. That was on the 23rd of September and n Hie 12th of October, after I had thought ever the patter, I honestly remembered it, and I had a severe struggle with myself, because they said in the oath nothing is to be with held and nothing should be added, and then finally I wrote down a statement and I made a statement that it was quite possible that I had said it without the serialogical character becoming clear be, because I had net received any educational training in these fields.
However, without having the knowledge which I have new and since perhaps at that time when I thought Mrgowsky would have to know if lie had stated that, that I do not maintain any mere now he knows that information which I have obtained from these 1,000 experimental subjects, and that is that 560 of them were infected and 250 dead.
Q Well, doctor -
AAnd even the figures 46 and 30 did not mean anything to me. I actually was not informed. I did not have any knowledge of those things. I.have only heard of them for the first time here in the Palace of Justice, and I am quite sure that we were standing at the time, and I request that Professor Mrugowsky be asked about this subject here in the witness box so that the picture will be clear.
Q Isn't it quite obvious to you that people had typhus and that they were experimenting with these vaccines? How do you suppose these people contracted typhus?
A I have already stated that this morning I thought there was an entomologist solution, the fact that typhus should occur in as big a camp as Buchenwald, it seemed to me that the information that typhus had broken out as a result of an epidemic, and I thought that observations wore being made on persons who had. been vaccinated and persons who had not been immunized on the occasion of an epidemic. As I have already stated, I did not have any bacteriological or soriological training and I did not think people were being infected in order to test medicine. I did not reach that conclusion and I have already stated that in an interrogation, and then finally I began to understand it when 1. was told that in the interrogation by Mrugowsky, and I have already written it in the written statement which I gave in the year 1942, and I have also told that to Dr. Alexander and I have had two different injuries to my head. That was in 1942 and I bad. functional disturbances and I was unable to associate things too clearly. I believe that sometimes i fail to associate tilings properly, and perhaps it nay have been I failed to understand a report from Dr. Mrugowsky.
Q Doesn't it seen ridiculous to you -
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will be in recess at this time.
(A short recces was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the court room will please find their scats.
The Tribunal is again in session.
**** ****** - Resumed.
CROSS EXAMINATION (Cont'd.)
**** HARDY:
Q Now, Doctor, you have stated that you assumed that a typhus epidemic was raging in the Buchenwald concentration camp, and by that to*on these experimental subjects contracted typhus disease due to this epidemic. New isn't it a little ridiculous to think that medical men of the caliber of Mrugowsky would be commanding a unit where they would experiment with anti-typhus vaccines on **** who already have typhus--what is the value of the experiment?
A There was no necessity for an epidemic to prevail. In large camp, as was tin case in Buchenwal there were currently now diseases and there was always typhus. We thought that a solution could be achieved by taking persons and vaccinating some and not vaccinating others and thereby observe them. I remember that at that it that time I had a bacteriological discussion on that subject and as admitted this morning, I often made changes. I had no further scientific considerations abut that matter since 1 lacked, the education, and it can tell, you no thing about it.
Q Well, let us net argue on that point any further, doctor. I have one further question in regard to typhus. You state the vain of command existing over the Buchenwald Institute was Grawits, Mrugowsky and Ding--is that correct?
A Did you say "series f*ord*rd"
Q I said "the chain of command."
A I see. It went or on Ding, a s Chief of the Experimental Station, to the Reichsarzt-SS.
Q Then you state that in view f Kogan's testimony, Haven's testimony, and the affidavit of Hoven, that is, Document NO 429, which is Prosecution Exhibit 281, where Haven states:
"From my association with Dr. Ding, I understood that the chain of command in the supervision of the 'Spotted Fever Experimental Station' was as follows: Reichsarzt SS Grawitz, Genzken, Mrugowsky, and Ding."
A That was a false assumption. He said "I understand" and that was a false assumption.
Q Then are have Ding assuming this, Hoven assuming it from Ding, Dr. Kegan, the witness, and Mrugowsky" assumed" that was the chain of command. However, you state that was Growitz to Ding and that was all you know about it. Mrugowsky didn't have anything to do with it either?
A Mrugowsky was the expert. He was the so-called hygienic consultant who was asked to give his advice whenever necessary. I testified to that effect before. When seem planning about a new vaccine was started, the Reichsarzt naturally asked Professor Mrugowsky as the Hygienic expert who was at his disposal.
Q And Mrugowsky at that time was your subordinate, hence I assume that you accept responsibility for any activities of Mrugowsky in connection with the Buchenwald experimental stated--is that a correct assumption?
A No, that is not correct; only for his services at the- hygiene institute of the Waffen SS and as a Departmental chief in my office, but not at the experimental station.
Q Well, now, let us go on to an they subject, doctor. The Waffen SS fighting units were subjected to battle conditions. Were many of them wounded?
A The losses were very " read, particularly because it was known that the Waffen SS divisions were always committed at the key point of any battle. That was always customary and therefore the losses were relatively high. I can't give you any exact figures. I only know the figure of the first trial, that from 580,000, only 900 remained alive. That is to say, the losses were something like 400,000 or rather 320,000. Those were the losses as I know them from the first trial. How many dead and hew many injured there were, I can't tell you. I haven't any details available.
Q Well, then, did you have a definite policy established far the care of your wounded soldiers, that is, did you have certain prescribed treatments with various drugs far as gangrene, and battlefield wounds?
A That was the ordinary treatment of any wounded. The wounded were sent to the dressing station, then to the main dressing station to the roar; from there they went to the hospitals and there they were treated on the basis of the principles of surgery.
Q Then the actual preparation for wounds, any drugs ti be used in that course, were of interest to you, weren't they? what I an getting at, Doctor, is that treatment with sulfanilamide would have been f considerable interest to you, wouldn't it?
A Yes. There were two trends prevailing with the a rental surgeons. Some of then were very attached to this way of sulfanilamide treatment. I am particularly thinking of two who started producing themselves in order to be able to blow the sulfanilamide powder into the wound. Then there was another tendency prevailing where sulfanilamide was not used at all. The case was that every physician acted on the basis of his knowledge and conscience, and as I said, before, there were a number of people who were very reticent in using sulfanilamide.
Q. Well, now Fischer has stated in his affidavit, which is Document No. 226, Prosecution Exhibit 234, that the gangrous bacterial cultures for use in the experiments were obtained from the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS. These experiments ware carried out in 1942 and 1943, were they not?
A. Yes, it can be seen from the trials.
Q. The Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS during that period of time was subordinate to Department 16, was it not?
A. Yes.
Q. Department 16 was subordinated to Amtsgruppe D, of which you were Chief was it not?
A. Yes, th t is correct.
Q. Now, these poison bullet experiments and these incendiary bomb experiments, which the prosecution charges against you I have one question to ask; weren't these experiments of deep concern to the Wehrmacht?
A. I always hear about these experiments on the basis of the files presented.
Q. And don't you think those experiments Were of benefit to the Wehrmacht wasn't there a possibility that the Wehrmacht would be interested in incondiar bomb treatment?
A. According to what I saw from the - documents the treatment of phosper incendiary bombs was affected with so-called Madaus remedy, that is a homocophatic remedy, and personally I am very skeptical tower that, and I don't know what it can do for a wound. I don't believe any result was reached and I don't believe this experiment was ever exploited.
Q. Now, didn't you tell one of my interrogators a few months ago, I can't recall on what occasion, that you thought poison bullets and incendiary bomb experiments of interest to the Wehrmacht?
A. I didn't say anything about that. I don't know about it.
Q. Now, Doctor, do you know .anything about the euthanasia program?
A. During the interrogations I said I as other physicians, attended, official conferences during the exhibition of the film. I went there and saw the film, A short time thereafter I met Professor De Grenius, Director of the Psychiatric Clinic in Berlin. I met him at the port where I was active, and we had a discussion about that film, and exchanged views on the various aspects.
At this opportunity Professor De Grenius told me very discretely about the Fuehrer's Decree, and said that a department had. been created in the Reich Chancellory in order to carry out euthanasia. He said that this action was stopped in 1941, because of the interference of the Church, and. that is what I knew about euthanasia.
Q. Well, now, what I am getting at, Doctor, you have testified before you saw,a film, a euthanasia film, was that the same film that was brought up during the interrogation of Professor Leibrandt, is that the film I accused?
A. Yes, I believe, where multi-pleurose came in play as a disease, and in my opinion that was a mistake.
Q. Well, my question to you in that regard, Doctor, is where did the film originate from, who was the author of the film, so to speak, were you able to ascertain that when you saw the film?
A. No, I don't know. I don't know what agency originated the film, and I do not know whether the invitation came from the civilian sector. I cannot toll you.
Q. Thank you. Now, Doctor, you have stated that in Department 15 or Ampt 15, which was subordinated to you as Chief of Amtsgruppe D, that Dr. Blumenreuter was Chief of that Division, th't is Ampt 15; now did. Dr. Blumenreuter ever report to you in regard to sterilization experiments?
A. No.
Q. What was your subordinate doing in sterilization work?
A. I learned from the documents here th t he was approached in order to obtain X-ray apparatus and with or. Blumenreuter the same situation prevailed as in the Institute regarding hygiene. As I said before the hygienic institute was the only institute in the country which was not only subordinated to the Waffen SS, 'out also subordinated to the other SS groups, such as the police, and. that all branches of the SS approached, this department in Berlin and demanded from the supply of apparatus, trucks, and so forth. In the course of his activity in science and research or. Grawitz could approach this pharmaceutical institute and could issue orders to them and could, also invite a circle of collaborators and very easily exclude me. Of course in the documents, here we were concerned with the X-ray exhibit, of which I knew nothing.
Q. Yes, that is Document No. 212, which is Prosecution Exhibit 173; the subject of which is "Discussion of Sterilization of Women at Auswitz Concentration Camp." It is most interesting to note, Doctor, that your immediate subordinate, Chief of Ampt 15 directly under your control, states in a letter which I shall quote, "In addition I should like to make a further request, it was SS Ober Brigadefuehrer Dr. Blumenreuter who finally managed to get me one suitable X-ray installation so that he could carry out that serious method of sterilization as proposed by Viktor Brack." It was signed, by Tauber. What was one of your men doing in the Auschwitz Concentration camp, Doctor?
A. I don't know anything about it. Blumenreuter, for instance, supplied the Volksdertsche Mittelstello, and I received, no knowledge of that, and the supply for the concentration camps originated from there and I received no reports from that, as Chief of the Waffen SS Medical Service.
Q. Did Dr. Hohlfolder have any connection with you H-o-h-l-f-e-l-d-e-r?
A. Dr. Hohlfelder was the commander cf the X-ray unit. It was a very peculiar situation. It sounded like medicine, and would imagine it was subordinated to me, but it wasn't subordinated to me, but to the operation of the main office, and was equipped only to people who had some medical experience. That was the only connection this X-ray unit had with the SS. This X-ray unit we really at the disposal cf Conti, who had to decide where this unit was committed. The task of this unit was to take X-ray photos of certain persons and Conti defined them as the people who were to be compromised. The leader of the action was Professor Wuhlfelder who was professor at Frankfurt University and later went to Posen University. That is all I can tell you about this.
Q. Of course you have noted that the Document No. 246, which offhand I don't knew the prosecution number, which is in connection with the case of tubercular pules, that one of your subordinates, Hohlfelder, was also connection with the activities of Blame and Dreiser. How do you explain the fact that your men were in all those programs, sterilization, TB Poles, typhus...
A. I can tell you Dr. Hohlfelder was not a subordinate. This unit was not subordinated to me. I can give you the testimony f Juettner, who is here in this bulling, to the effect that this X-ray unit was not subordinated to the SS but was directly subordinated to the Chief cf Operation of the head office ordered by Himmler. He was not my subordinate.
Q. bell, now, Doctor, is Karl Dimmer familiar to you. W-i-m-m-e-r?
A. No, I hoard this name here for the first time. I can't remember him before.
Q. New, I want to call your attention to Document No. 194, Prosecution Exhibit 263, where Dr. Wimmer was A be transferred to the Waffen SS, in order to aid Dr. Hirt in his Lest experiments, which is another man coring under your jurisdiction as chief of the Waffen SS in connection.
with Last experiments. What do you knew about freezing experiments, Doctor?
A. With reference to Dr. Wimmer I may say this man came at a time, as f ar as I know from the documents it was May 1943, when I had been at Karlsbad, and he certainly was not present at my office. If a physician was transferred the clerical went through my personnel office and I didn't necessarily receive any knowledge of it, but as far as I remember this letter must have been ar under 1943, at a time when I was caught in Berlin. At any rate, I don't remember Dr. Wimmer as a name of one of my physicians at that time.
Q Now, Doctor, do you also recall prosecution Exhibit 79, which is Document 1612-PS, which I will read to you. This is a letter dated 13 December 1942, it is addressed to the following people: Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Rascher - No. 1; No. 2 - Berlin; No. 3 - Medical Office in SS Fuohrungs hauptamt, which is your office in Berlin; No. 4 - Pohl and No. 5 - Ahnonerb The letter concerns the experiments of Dr. Rascher.
"Enclosed I am sending you a letter cf the Reichfuehrer SS with an order for SS Heuptsturmfuchrer Dr. Rascher. You are requested to duly note and accord needed assistance to Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Rascher in the carrying through cf his experiments."
This is obviously a report by karl Brandt. Here you arc receiving a letter indicating you were fully aware these experiments were being carried cut on prisoners at Dachau. You received the letter?
A I was not the recipient of this letter. As I said before it was the SS Hauptamt, and Mr. McHaney, the ether gentleman, was corrected and said that he meant an agency of the SS. My office was called the Medical Department of the Waffen SS. It definitely was in error that it was the agency cf the Reichs Amt. SS. I never read this letter, nor did I receive it. I heard the name cf Rascher for the first time at the internment camp.
Q This address here is Medical Office in SS-Fuehrungshauptamt, that is the German; that was your office - SS-Fuehrungshauptamt?
A Yes; SS-Fuehrungshauptamt.
Q The last paragraph in the letter, addressed to you, signed by H. Himmler, states: "The procurement of the apparatus needs for all the experiments should be discussed in detail with the office of the Reichsarzt-SS, of SS-Wirtscharftsverwaltungshnuptamt (SS Main Office for Economics and administration) and with ******be. The necessary chemical products, medical supplies and glass ware will be made available by SS-Sanitaetsamt (SS Medical Office) Berlin." It was your office that was engaged in the work cf Rascher at the time you were in complete jurisdiction over it?
A Yes, that came under the subject which I have mentioned; mely that the main medical department on or Blumenruether did not only work for the Waffen SS, but for all ether branches of the SS.
Rascher could order from them whatever he liked on the basis cf his authority.
Q I might also call your attention to Ding's Diary, No. 43, Document No. 538, Prosecution Exhibit 122, under the date of 1 February, 1943. The notation in Ding's diary states: "Department cf Sanitiation of the Waffen SS, SS Brif. Bleumenreuther: procurement cf apparatus, instruments, tools, and chemicals for experiments by SS H'Stuf. Dr. Rascher." Your work was quite significant; Blumenruether was your immediate subordinate in Amt. 15?
I also wish to call your attention to Document No. 647, which was Prosecution Exhibit 124: Subject: "Cooperation with the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS." This is dated 16 December 1942. At th t time the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS was subordinate to you; was it not?
A The Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS was subordinate to me.
Q The letter states: "With reference to my letter of 9 June, 1942, regarding vermin control, a meeting took place first on 21 October 1942 with the participation of SS Standartenfuohrer Dr. Mrugowsky and SS Untersturmfuehrer Dr, Scharlau, Kenscbeckstr, 43/44. Under discussion was the Cooperation not only in the field cf v rain control, but also in the research-sphere of Rascher and with regard to the use of Gastein water in cases of freezing, as well as in various operational field of the Hygiene Institute, as had already been laid 'own in the interview with SS Untersturmfuehrer Dr. Scharlau on 6 November 1941.
"A further meeting took place them at the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS on 20 November 1942 in which SS Standartenfuehrer Dr, Mrugowsky, SS Standartenfuehrer Sievers and Lecturer Dr. May took part. Dr. May promised on that occasion to send in has research plan."
Mrugowsky was your subordinate on 16 December, 1942; was he not?
A What did he premise; I did not hear that last sentence?
Q Mrugowsky was your subordinate on 16 December, 1942; wasn't he?
A Yes, I understood all that, only the last sentence.
Q Your subordinate was concerned with the research of Rascher. The last sentence.