A. (continued) My main efforts were directed toward the foot and mouth disease where I brought about increased production of vaccines and corrected the lack of a sufficient amount of vaccine. Moreover, I brought it about that in case of appearance of rinderpest, immediate work should be done in production of vaccines and the scientific work in that subject. In the botanic sector, my first efforts were directed toward having chemicals ready to combat insect pests, and the research into new methods of combating such pests. The latter matter was very important on account of the German raw material situation. There was sufficient knowledge already about insect pests. A special institution was working on the problem of the potato bug. There was enough machinery for the extracting of chemicals from the earth. However, I had a new disseminating machine developed which was to combat insect pests from airplanes on a large scale. The work to develop a method for combating a possible artificially effected spread of weeds had not yet been concluded. We spread potato bugs from airplanes in order to ascertain whether or not the potato bug could be dropped from great heights effectively. That, in summary, is the essential aspect of the work that was actually carried out.
Q. Dr. Blome, were these defensive measures, that is preparations for defensive biological warfare, had they progressed so far that Germany was in a position to defend itself in this field had it been necessary? Had this work developed so far?
A. No. Our defensive preparations were insufficient in this field.
Q. You told us before that you had had no conversation with Hitler, and had received no orders from him. From your previous interrogations, it can be seen that you must have had frequent discussions on these questions, in any case with Himmler. The first of these took place in July or August 1943 with Himmler. What was discussed at that time? Please limit yourself to the subject biological defensive warfare.
A. Himmler called me and told me that I had been given a very important job, and for that reason he wanted to give me his support. He had already given his earlier collaborator, Dr. Strasburger, the assignment to get in touch with me. Himmler asked me of my opinion regarding the possibilities of using biological means of warfare, and I explained to him the following: For the plant sector I told him of beetles for potatoes and for sugar beets and rape-seed, the plant from which margerine is developed, and a fungus for wheat. Himmler contradicted me about the latter, but told me, in his opinion, the greater danger was the potato bug. In the animal sector I mentioned the hoof and mouth disease and rinderpest and the hog plague. Himmler, however, thought that these could be combated essentially by vaccination. I told him that on the basis of International agreements the virus that brings about rinderpests and the hog plague could not be kept alive in Europe, and that only after such epidemics broke out could we begin to manufacture the vaccine.
Q. Dr. Blome, you said before that it was always your point of view that biological warfare could only be considered as a defensive measure, that is, if the enemy began against Germany. What was Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler's attitude toward this question?
A. Himmler asked me what my opinion was, and I told him that in view of Germany's geographical situation the consequences of such warfare would be devastating for Germany. If the enemy were well prepared and proceeded rapidly against the animals and plants -Germany's whole food production would be in danger and this would be contrary to promises made at the beginning of the war to the German people. Himmler opposed my point of view at that time regarding the existence of such a danger for Germany, but in later talks with him he admitted that I was one hundred percent right. In the talks in July or August 1943 Himmler brought the subject around to an offensive biological warfare on part of Germany and asked me what I thought of that. I answered that Hitler had frequently ordered that no new offensive preparation should be made in this field, and that in view of Germany's geographical and strategic position such warfare would be an incalculable danger to Germany.
The beginning of such offensive warfare would institute a boomerang that would strike Germany. I pointed out at this occasion that offensive biological warfare was impossible for Germany because we had not yet made sufficient preparations in this field.
Q. Is it correct that in this discussion which you had with Himmler in July or August 1943 regarding the problem of biological warfare, that he interested himself in the question of plagues? If so, why?
A. That is true. When Himmler asked about the dangers in the human sector, I named the various epidemics possible and also mentioned among them the plague. And Himmler explained to me that according to the reports, that had come in, the plague was possibly the greatest danger for Germany, objectively speaking because of the dangerousness of the plague itself, and also because of the psychological repercussions a plague would have in Germany. For centuries the plague had been regarded in Germany as the greatest affliction of mankind. Himmler told me on this occasion; by way of example, of events that had taken place in the Caucasus, that even SS troops had refused to march there when they heard that they were to enter areas infected with the plague. During this talk Himmler told me that we must, by way of human experiments, find an effective vaccine against the plague. He ordered me to think about how this could best be brought about. He told me then that he would offer me space and facilities in a concentration camp and he also told me that they had found a very effective typhus vaccine through experiments in Buchenwald.
Consequently, I should carry out plague experiments in concentration camps to find a good plague vaccine. Because of my spiritual repudiation of this idea I rejected this order. The fact that I did not want to enter the SS and thus be immediately subordinate to Himmler, also played a roll in this, development which otherwise I should hardly have been able to prevent. In order to deflect Himmler from these notion. I pointed out the danger of infection that would arise if experiments were carried out in concentration camps and pointed out the necessity of particularly isolated laboratoriums for such experiments which would have to be specially constructed. Nesselstedt near posen seemed to me to be the appropriate place for this.
Q. Dr. Blome, from your previous answers it has not yet become clear to me how it was that Himmler came to interest himself in this whole problem. Was Himmler in any way competent for matters concerning biological warfare?
A. Certainly he was competent because he was not only chief of the German Police, in charge of all police measures, but from the practical point of view Himmler was also Minister for Health in his capacity as Reich Minister of the Interior which was legally in charge of health matters in Germany. That Himmler concerned himself so intensively with the plague problem is to be traced back to a pathologically exaggerated ambition on the part of Himmler. He wanted to be the one who would be held responsible for the successful combating of any scourge so terrible as the plague. I believe this also is the reason why Himmler so interested himself in cancer research. At any rate, at that conference with him that I mentioned he had me give him a summary survey of the status of cancer research. I stated my opinion about experiments on human beings in connection with cancer research and Himmler told me at that time that he was in favor of human being experiments in view of the importance of the problem. He considered the matter, of course, that for such experiments only common criminals should be used and namely, prisoners who had been condemned to death. Such criminals would, if they survived the experiments, be pardoned without further ado. That at least is what he said. In certain circles, to be sure, efforts had been made to have certain experiments carried out which he had arranged for under Rascher, but he told the office in question unmistakably that he regarded it as high treason to refuse to carry out experiments that were necessary for the war and he referred in this to an order of Hitler's expressing the same point of view. In connection with our discussions of the cancer problem, Himmler mentioned a certain Dr. von Luetzelburg who visited me later and who believed that he had found a means of combatting cancer in the root of a certain Alpine plant.
Q. Dr. Blome, some time later then there were further discussions between you and Himmler? What was the subject of these discussions?
A. The next discussion was roughly a month later. The reason Himmler asked me to visit him this time was that Dr. von Luetzelburg, whom I have just mentioned, together with Dr. Sievers and Rascher, had been sent by him to me. I myself had called Professor Holz to this discussion. It was here a question of testing the efficacy of this so-called Alpine vegetable extract. I and Holz were of the view that first of all this extract should be chemical analyzed and that before this question was clarified I should refrain from passing judgment on this drug. Only after the necessary analysis had been carried out should animal experiments begin. Professor Holz and I were of the same opinion.
MR. HARDY: Mr. President, I am not aware that the prosecution has charged the defendant with cancer research or anything involving cancer experiments that requires such a long explanation as this.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel's statement is correct. There is no charge against the defendant involving cancer experiments. The matter can be touched upon very lightly but a great deal of time should not be taken up in studying the defendant's activities along that line.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, we are confronted here with a difficulty that confronts the other defense counsel also. We have received copies of the indictment and assume that the indictment contains particulars of what the individual defendants are charged with. However, in the course of the trial a series of other problems were brought up; namely, problems that were not even mentioned in the indictment, and we defense counsel were not sure whether the prosecution is also charging the defendants with these other problems.
For this reason, at the beginning of the Blome case and after talking with certain colleagues I brought up the question of what the prosecution intended to make of these further problems and the prosecution stated that all that was brought up in the course of the trial was to be charged against the defendant. That, at least, is how I understood it. Entirely aside from the fact whether or not these points were mentioned in the indictment. Now, I am not a bit sure whether, when I finish my defense tomorrow, the prosecution won't come to me and say: "Here in this cancer research and in other research there were experiments on human beings and, of course, these too should be charged against the defendant."
THE PRESIDENT: The prosecution has closed its case in chief and introduced its evidence. We have now not only the indictment, but the evidence in chief for the prosecution. That contained nothing that I remember concerning any charge concerning cancer research.
DR. SAUTER: Mr President, a number of documents were submitted which concern themselves with cancer research, and if the prosecution does not take the attitude that because of this cancer business and human being experiments in association with them charges should be raised against Dr. Blome, then I do not understand why these documents were presented at all.
HR. HARDY: May it please your Honor, if the prosecution objects to the particular position taken by one defense counsel or another, defense counsel always batters back and forth and consumes the time that he could have used up in taking up that subject. I object to points in this case of Blome and each time the defense counsel comes back with a long argument. I have had the same discussion 46l4 at least four times with Dr. Sauter to my knowledge, and I don't know how many times Mr. McHaney has had it.
I think at this tine we should ask Dr. Sauter to refrain from any more comments along these lines.
THE PRESIDENT: I would ask counsel for the prosecution if at this time he expressly disclaims any theory that the evidence for the prosecution in any way connects this defendant Dr. Blome with any alleged offenses in regard to cancer research?
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, let me say the following in this matter.....
THE PRESIDENT: (Interrupting) Counsel, my question is propounded to counsel for the prosecution and the Tribunal would like to have his answer before hearing you.
MR. HARDY: During the case in chief for the prosecution we, at no time, introduced any evidence pertaining to cancer research and experiments resulting therefrom. We had intended, at first, to introduce such evidence but decided it would not be advisable, and we have, at no time, made a specific charge against the defendant Blome that he experimented or was involved in experiments or cancer research on human beings in a concentration camp.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel for the prosecution having made the statement which he just made and disclaimed any theory upon which this defendant could be charged with any offenses connected with cancer research, that matter is not a necessary, or even a proper subject for discussion save as it might arise incidentally in connection with some other matter.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, let me say one thing. It is very unpleasant to us defense counsel that every few minutes the prosecution comes up to the microphone and objects to the way the defense counsel is handling any specific matter. In this trial and in the IMT process I never remember a case where the defense counsel went up to the American prosecution and told them what they could submit and what they couldn't. I believe I am speaking now for all my colleagues when I say that it should be left to the sense of duty of the defense counsel to decide to what extent he wishes to interrogate his client and that the prosecution should not keep making objections to the way he conducts his case.
We, on our part, have never thought of objecting to the way the prosecution carries out his.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel for either the prosecution or defense may always object to questions which are improper. They may also interpose objections to matters which they may deem entirely immaterial.
The Tribunal will now be in recess until 1:30.
(A recess was taken until 1330 hours; 18 March 1947).
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1300 hours, 18 March 1947.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
MR. HARDY: May it please the Tribunal, the Defendant Rose has submit a request of prosecution in order to aid him in the preparations of his defense, namely, he has requested a statement from the prosecution as to whether or not the prosecution intends to use the subject of the air squadrons for forest protection and of malaria control by airplanes against the Defendant Rose. In addition, he requests as to whether or not the prosecution intends to conclude that Professor Rose participated in the gas experiments and the skeleton collection. The prosecution announces at this time that they have no intentions of furthering either Count against the Defendant Rose.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, does the Tribunal understands that the prosecution has abandoned those charges against the Defendant Rose?
MR. HARDY: In connection with the skeleton collection and last experiments, the Defendant Rose was never charged with them specifically in the indictment.
THE PRESIDENT: I understand that, but any possible charge on those abandoned by the prosecution?
MR. HARDY: Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary -General will note for the record the statement by the prosecution.
Counsel for the Defendant Blome may proceed.
KURT BLOME - Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) BY DR. SAUTER (Counsel for the Defendant Blome):
Q Witness, you have heard that the prosecution has stated that in cancer matters there will be no charge against you; consequently, in your subsequent answers you can always omit the part which refers to cancer. work for the appropriation of defense measures against biological warfare you have said, was done at your institute near Posen, Nesselstadt. Himmler gave you an assistant for this, SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Dr. Gross. The witness Dr. Kesmehl has already testified about this.
I want confirmation from you whether it is true what we have heard from other sources, that this Dr. Gross whom Himmler assigned to you as an assistant is not identical with the Dr. Gross who was at the meeting of consulting physicians at Hohenlychen and is included in the list. You can answer that question, yes or no.
A First, I should like to come back to two points in your question. I understood you correctly, you spoke of work done at the Nesselstadt Institute.
Q Yes.
A But I have explained carefully that up to 1945, when the Russians came to Posen, there was no opportunity to do any work yet, and no work could be done. That by way of correction. In the second place, you mentioned Dr. Kosmehl. Is that not a mistake? As far as I know, Dr. Kosmehl did not know Gross at all.
Q Then it was on some other occasion, at least Dr. Gross has been mentioned several times.
A Dr. Gross was mentioned on a different occasion. In answer to the question whether this Dr. Gross whom Himmler assigned to me attended the meeting of consulting physicians at Hohenlychen, I answer, No.
Q Now, Dr. Blome, in the matter of preparation for defense against biological warfare, in specific the plague problem, did you have any further discussions with Reichsfuehrer Himmler?
A. I spoke of the two discussions with Himmler, one in July or August '43, and the second about four weeks later. Then six months later in February or March of '44, during the visit of Horthy to Hitler, I had to report to Himmler about my work on plague and the problem of biological warfare in general. This discussion took place in Himmler's headquarters near Salzburg. I said that the Sturmbannfuehrer Dr. Gross was collecting the literature, that there were great difficulties for the conception of the buildings and the facilities, and so forth. Orders for equipment and apparatus was very slow, that he could not help me. He said that he had some difficulties. I had to see how I could manage these things by myself. He regretted that the question of biological warfare had not been taken up years ago, and he asked me whether nothing could be done against the English American invasion in the West which was expected, in order to interfere with it or to postpone it.
He was thinking, for example, of grippe or influenza, and he recalled the Spanish Grippe which had made such difficulties for the Germany Army in the First World War. I told Himmler there was no such thing, and the question of the foot and mouth disease epidemic in '44 and '45 was discussed, since according to experience a return of this epidemic can be expected about every five years.
Himmler asked me what had been done against this and I referred to our excellent vaccines, and also the lack of organization on the part of the Reichs Ministry of the Interior, with reference to the protective vaccination which has to be undertaken. The foot and mouth disease was beginning to penetrate into Germany from the West. The question of rinderpest was also discussed. I again referred to the prohibition of the International agreement for Europe, that rinderpest virus could not be kept in European, and that no vaccine could be produced consequently. Himmler said he would try to get rinderpest virus.
Q Then I believe you had a few discussions with Himmler which we not go into in detail. I believe they were more or less to the same effect as the earlier discussions, is that true?
A Essentially, yes. About four weeks after the discussion which I just mentioned, I had another one with Himmler. He called me in because ostensibly biological warfare agents were used in Normandy, but I learned that this news was not true. Then about the beginning of September 1944 I visited Himmler again at his field headquarters in the West, about 40 kilo meters from Saarbruecken. That was the last time.
Q Witness, the Prosecution submitted a document, No. 114, Exhibit 324, a letter from Reichs Physician Grawitz to Himmler. It refers to defendant measures against biological warfare and refers to the compilation which Obergruppenfuhrer Mrugowsky, your co-defendant, may have made about the important scientific materials. It says that at the instigation of Blome, Mrugowsky dealt with the question of defense against biological warfare with the compilation of the most important scientific material and to won which I enclose. End of quotation. In this letter the word "defense" is underlined. Did you know of this letter at the time and did you know about the work done by Dr. Mrugowsky?
A I know about the letter. The only time when Mrugowsky visited me was the delivery of a carbon copy of this letter. The report primarily referred to the necessity of a well organized intelligence service in case biological warfare should be applied against Germany.
Q Now if, in conclusion, we recall all your answers on the problem of biological warfare, can you, Dr. Blome, with a clear conscience, under say that you yourself were thinking always only of defensive measures in biological warfare, that you always repudiated offensive biological warfare and, furthermore, that you did nothing in order to prepare a biological warfare offensive against Russia or other countries? Can you say that on your oath?
A Yes.
Q Doctor, now I remind you, it is supposed to have happened that Himmler asked of you that measures of retaliation in the field of biological warfare were to be undertaken, I believe it was against Russia. What does that mean?
A That is true. Himmler made that request.
Q When was that?
A In 1944.
Q And why?
A I believe it was the second discussion in the Spring of 1944 when he made this request, but this was not specifically against Russia. He spoke quite generally. He said that it would be necessary to prepare measures of retaliation in the event that the enemy should begin biological warfare. I told Himmler at the time that I was in no position, on the basis of my research assignment, to prepare such retaliatory measures. To prepare such retaliatory measures as Himmler had in mind I would have needed a special assignment from the Fuehrer; but I know as well as Himmler, and I told him that Hitler had prohibited all offensive preparations.
Q Witness, now I put to you a testimony in the first Nurnberg trial by a witness, a person who has been mentioned several times in this trial, Professor Dr. Walter Schreiber. This witness, in the session of 26 August 1946, in this room, was examined before the International Military Tribunal. To facilitate matters for the Court, I have included his affidavit and his testimony as Document No. 7 in the Blome Document Book, that is, an extract from it, so that the Court will be able to examine those parts of Schreiber testimony and affidavit in so far as we must refer to them in examining the defendant Dr. Blome. This is Document No. 7 in the Blome Document Book and will be given the Exhibit number Blome No. 11. I ask that this entire document, even the parts which are not read, should be accepted as evidence. Witness, of course you know Professor Schreiber?
A Yes.
Q You know the testimony which he gave on 26 August 1946 before the International Military Tribunal?
A Yes.
Q You know the affidavit which was submitted at that time?
A Yes.
Q In this testimony, the witness, Schreiber, spoke of experiments for the purpose of biological warfare or for the preparation of defense against biological warfare in Posen in your institute. He says, and I quote "I do not know any details about them. I know only that spraying experiments from planes with bacteria emulsion, so-called model experiments, were can out and that experiments with insects and bugs harmful to plants, were carried out. But I am not in a position to give any detailed information because I myself did not participate and do not know the details," End of quotation.
If one reads that in the atmosphere of this courtroom, one might the impression that these were experiments which might be considered as be inhumane or illegal. Can you please explain briefly what kind of experiments these were?
A The statements of Professor Schreiber about the experiments conducted in my institute at Posen are not true. I have already said that in January 1945, when the Russians came to Posen, the institute was not even finished; that at this time there were about 300 workers still working that nothing was ever done at this institute as far as research is concern and no airplane experiments were conducted at Posen. During my whole period in office not a single such airplane experiment was carried out, not even other areas. The experiment which Schreiber mentions was one done before was given my assignment, which Professor Kliewe once told me about, but was not for an offensive purpose and the result of the experiment was absolutely negative.
Q Then, if I understand you correctly, Professor, these are thin which have nothing to do with human experiments such as have been the sub of this trial?
A No, they have nothing in common.
Q Witness, Professor Schreiber in his testimony, and this is also shown by the document, also said that in March 1945 you had to flee from Posen before the Red Army, that you went to see him at Berlin and said to him that you were quite worried that the arrangements for human experiment I emphasize -- arrangements for human experiments which were in the institute in Posen and which were recognizable as such, might very easily be recognized by the Russians; and that you asked Schreiber to see to it that your professor and your plague cultures which you had saved might be able to continue to work at Sachsenburg. That is what Professor Schreiber said. Now in consideration of the significance which the word "plague" has in every instance. I should like to ask-- what do you have to say about this statement of the witness, Schreiber, specifically about these arrangements for human experiments and about the plague cultures?
A. I shall be as brief as possible. It is not true that I visited Shreiber in March 1945. I visited him on the 30th of January 1945. I had learned by accident that under Schreiber's supervision that in 1943 there were laboratories at Sachsenburg to produce plague vaccine. I wanted to send Dr. Gross there with the material we had saved from Posen, because I was looking for a place for him to work. As far as I myself was concerned I did not want to go there. That was out of the question because I had other duties. I had other things to do besides sharing my only laboratory with Dr. Gross. Shreiber's description that I had had to flee from my Institute at Posen, and that I was not able to blow it up, that is not true. I must assume, to give Shreiber the benefit of the doubt, that his memory failed him; and this is indicated by the fact that he confused January with March. I told Shreiber the following about the evacuation of the Institute, and this is what truly happened: It was on a Saturday, about January 18th, when the order to evacuate the Warthe-Gau was given. Unaware of this order on the day before I had gone to Berlin with two cars to get the most important things to safety. On the next day, on Saturday, I returned to Posen. On the way I met numerous groups of refugees. In the afternoon I arrived in Posen. I went immediately to the Chamber of Physicians to find out about the situation. Here I learned in the morning there had been an order issued to evacuate the Warthe-Gau and on the same evening the Gauleitung would leave Posen. I went to the east across the river Warthe to my Institute. I stayed there until Sunday afternoon. I saw to it that my people and part of the materials were removed, and then I was the last German to leave the Institute. During this 24 hours I considered whether I should blow up the stone barracks which had been built for the bacteriological work. Three days before the night, from Thursday to Friday, I had called on the Reich Defense Commissioner Greiser, who had given me the order in no case to let the Institute or the valuable equipment fall into the hands of the Russians. If it should be necessary to evacuate Posen I was to blow everything up.
After serious consideration, however, I decided not to blow it up, in spite of the fact I had plenty of time and opportunity to do so. Even if this had not been the case I could have had it destroyed by Stuka Bombs, by dive bombers. That is the state of affairs, and that is what I told Shreiber.
Q. Witness, what about the plague cultures; I asked you about the plague cultures.
A. I did not save any plague cultures as Shreiber says. I had only one which I had received very shortly before. Shreiber knew that; I had told him so. It was he on the contrary who later, and this was probably in March, gave me a certificate for my associate, Dr. Gross, to the Sachsenburg, that Dr. Gross could collect the various plague cultures which were at Sachsenburg. Shreiber had told me that the various plague strains available in Germany, in Europe, were being bred by him or the Institute. A plague vaccine was to be produced. I cannot understand how Shreiber can say in the same statement, and I quote: "Professor Schuhmann and his Ministerialrat Stantin, and a number of other doctors, scientists, whom he did not know worked at my Institute in Posen. " This Institute was not ready to begin work, which I have already stated. The most noteworthy thing in his testimony here before the Tribunal, Shreiber canceled the fact that he was in charge of epidemic research in Germany. I am convinced with knowledge of this fact the defense counsel would have crossexamined Shreiber much more thoroughly at that time, because it should be obvious, even for a layman, that in the case of any intentional biological warfare the man in charge of epidemic research, -- that is Shreiber would have been in charge. He was the man in Germany in whose hands all threads of epidemic research came together. The name Shreiber has been mentioned often enough in this connection, and in this trial.
Q. Witness, you said you had only one plague culture at this time?
A. Yes.
Q. We laymen understand very little about medicine, or nothing. You must explain to us why you had this one plague culture?
A. To obtain plague vaccines which I would have lacked to produce it, I would have needed plague cultures of course, not just one but quite a number of them, because not every strain of a bacteria is suitable for producing vaccine.
Q. Did this Professor Schreiber, who expressly says that you had plague cultures, did he himself have plague cultures?
A. Yes, I already said so, at Sachsenburg he had a number of cultures, as he explained to me all of those that were available in Germany or in Europe.
Q. You have already said that Dr. Blome, but you did not say they were Schreiber's plague cultures; then Schreiber had plague cultures at Sachsenburg in other words in his institute?
A. Yes, he or the Institute under him. But when he was examined here he did not say anything about that.
Q. Witness, this Professor Schreiber in the question of the application of plague bacteria, he said something, and I should like to hear whether you share his opinion. He said, and I quote from Shreiber's testimony: "Would the use of plague bacteria not involve enormous danger for our own troops?" he was asked, and Schreiber answered, "Yes, not only for the German troops but for the whole German people, for the refugees going from east to west, and plague would have been carried into Germany with great speed." That was the testimony of Schreiber; perhaps you can answer "yes" or "no" whether that was your opinion in regard to this type of bacteriological warfare?
A. Yes.
Q. Then on the subject of biological warfare I have a last question: Witness, in the judgment of the International Military Tribunal it was said among other things, and I quote: "In addition, Soviet prisoners were made the subject of medical experiments of the most horrible and inhumane type.
In July 1943 experiments for the preparation of bacteriological warfare were begun. Soviet prisoners were used for these medical experiments." Then this same judgment of the International Military Tribunal says that in regard to the scattering of a bacterial emulsion from airplanes for the purpose of spoiling the harvest and creating a famine, only preparations were made but it was not carried out, perhaps, the Court says, because of deterioration of the Military situation for Germany. Witness, I should like to hear from you under oath, did you ever hear anything that preparations were made for bacteriological Warfare on the German side, and that Soviet prisoners were used for medical experiments?
A. No, I never heard anything about that. I have tried to find an explanation for this, but I cannot imagine any explanation. I can say here on oath only that in the whole field of biological warfare not a single human experiment was conducted, whether permissible or forbidden in the whole field of biological warfare.
Q. Witness, if what is asserted here is true that medical experiments of the most horrible or inhumane type were conducted, then you on the basis of your position as Plenipotentiary for the preparation of defense measures against biological warfare would you have had to know about that?
A. Normally, yes.
Q. But you did not know about it?
A. No, I heard nothing whatever.
Q. And in the course of this trial you heard nothing which might be proof of the correctness of this assumption?
A. No, no.