Q Did you always report to your Chief Genzken whenever Grawitz called upon you officially as Chief Hygienist?
A No, these additional tasks were not in Dr. Genzken's field of work. Grawitz had reserved two fields for himself, that was planning and research; and Dr. Genzken always tried to deal only with those matters which corresponded to his position in the Waffen SS; and on the other hand Grawitz always endeavored to assert his whole competency for planning and research. For this reason, Dr. Genzken generally refused to have any knowledge of such things which concerned Grawitz because they were none of his business. On the other hand Grawitz was very careful that no one should interfere with him.
Q Was there a great deal of work in general when Grawitz called upon you directly?
A No, I have already said that there were individual cases called for by special circumstances.
Q Did Grawitz inform you about his work?
A No.
Q Before the 1st of September, 1943; before the reorganization of the Medical Service of the Waffen SS, did you participate in conferences in the staff of Grawitz? What was discussed there, how often did such conferences take place?
A Grawitz had a very uncertain position in respect to his Chief generally. He was not able to get on good terms with him. I knew that for about two years Himmler did not use his services at all as Reichs Physician. Therefore, he tried at every possible opportunity to get in Himmler's good graces again. Therefore, he wanted to concentrate his medical service more strictly than it was at the time. He had many other main offices which were under him. I believe it was at the beginning of 1943 he had conferences in his staff with these chief doctors. These conferences usually took place once a week, and those specialists from the staff of Dr. Genzken who were frequently called upon by him to deal with specialized tasks had to take part in these discussions.
Very soon we quit attending these conferences. We thought up excuses so that we would out have to go because those conferences were without any practical value and merely impaired us in carrying out our other duties.
Q In this connection I submit to the Tribunal the affidavit of Mrs. Gerda Krueger, the former secretary in the Medical Office of the Waffen-SS. This is document Mrugowski No. 45. It is on page 9 of the Document Book. I offer it as Exhibit Mrugowsky No. 2. Mrs. Gerda Krueger makes the following affidavit. First there is the customary introduction which I shall not read. Then she says:
"From 1939 to the surrender in 1945, I worked as a secretary to the office chief of the Medical Office of the Waffen-SS, Dr. Karl Blumenreuther.
"I know that since about 1942 weekly conferences between the office chiefs and the Reich Physician SS, Dr. Grawitz, were held in the latter's office. These conferences were, during the first weeks, also regularly attended by my chief Dr. Blumenreuther. Later on he only sent his adjutant, SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Rudolphi, as Dr. Blumenreuther did not regard these discussions as serious and essential ones but rather as a loss of time.
"The gentlemen often joked in my presence about the uninteresting agenda of these conferences and made also angry utterances on that subject. Finally even the adjutant, with the consent of the Blumenreuther, stayed away from these conferences altogether.
"From the conversations of Rudolphi I learned that often quite insignificant matters and sometimes only personal affairs were discussed. Also, it appears that many private things were discussed there."
And then she tells of an episode. I needn't read that.
Q Effective the first of September 1943 the Medical Service of the Waffen SS was reorganized. What was your relationship of subordinate after this reorganization?
AAfter the reorganization of the Medical Service of the SS I had two positions. First I was Chief of the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen-SS as I had been before. And, secondly, I was expert for Hygiene on Grawitz's staff. That was an office in which as such I had the title of Chief Hygienis
Q Which of the two was your main position?
A Most of my work, as before, was in my institute, when the reorganization was ordered, Grawitz called me and Dr. Blumenreuther, who was also to be on his staff, and he told us that on Himmler's orders we were to leave the staff of the Operational Main Office Fuhrungshauptamt and be transferred to his staff.
He ordered that Blumenreuther was to become a full member of his staff, and he was given a room in his office. I, on the other hand, was to stay in my institute because I was to continue my scientific work, and, in addition, I was to carry out the business of Hygienist on his staff. I was only loosely attached to his staff - those were his words.
AAbout 25 kilometres.
Q Did the office of the Chief Hygienist have its own personnel?
A No. The work was done by the personnel of the Hygiene Institute.
Q How often did you see Grawitz to report to him?
AAbout once every week or once every two weeks for one-half hour to an hour.
Q Mr. President, at this point I intended to submit Document Mrugowsky No. 26 but it is in Document Book 1-A and the English translation is not yet available. Therefore, I shall reserve the right to submit this document later
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel may submit the document later on when the book is ready.
Q What were the duties of the Chief Hygienist?
A It was Grawitz's intention that all questions of hygiene and epidemic control, as well as other medical questions which he had to deal with as Reic Physician-SS, should be handled centrally by his staff. But this intention was not carried out because the necessary organization was lacking. Grawitz had only the right to issue instructions to the doctors, and he had no military right to issue orders. He could merely make suggestions. He could say you must treat this disease with such and such treat. But if the order had any effects outside of medicine he was no longer able to issue the order, but the order had to be issued by the competent military commander. As Chief Hygienis I had the same capacity that I had on the staff of the Operational Main Office. I dealt with the questions that came up but I did not have any right to issue orders.
Q What individual problems did you deal with as chief Hygienist?
A In the one and one-half years that the office existed really only two major problems were handled. First, the distribution of disinfectants to the medical offices of the SS. Because of the air war, which had increased in intensity, German industry was no longer able to supply the necessary drugs for epidemic control in sufficient quantities. The things in which there existed the greatest scarcity were rationed by the State and each organization, that is Wehrmache or SS, Police, or Labor Service, etc., was given a certain allotment with which had to suffice. The distribution was done by my staff. The requisitions came in from the unit doctors to my staff and delivery was made by the Central Medical Depot of the Waffen-SS. The second big problem was the effort to attain central direction of epidemic control in all branches of the SS and in the Police. The necessary prerequisite had to be attained first. The first thing necessary was obligation to report contagious diseases in all branches of the SS and Police uniformly. Such an obligation to report had hitherto existed only according to State regulation: within the Waffen-SS and the Police. It also evicted theoretically for the concentration camps but these figures were kept secret and were not passed or so that I, as a hygienist, did not learn about them and could not introduce any foresighted planning for epidemic control. Therefore I issued a corresponding order, discussed it, among others, with the chief doctor of the concentration camps, who agreed at first; but, after introduction of many changes, he resumed his duty of secrecy and he took the point of view that he was not able to give the figures of prisoners suffering from epidemic to an agency which did not belong to the concentration camp itself. Therefore, the whole measure in effect was ineffective and I was in no position to intervene.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will now be in recess.
THE MARSHALL: Persons in the Courtroom will please find their seats.
The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. SEIDL: (Counsel for the Defendant Oberheuser): Mr. President, the Defendant Oberheuser asks the Tribunal, in view of her state of health, to be released this afternoon from appearing in court. A medical certificate will be submitted by the prison physician.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, counsel, you are convinced that she should be excused, are you?
DR. SEIDL: Yes, Your Honor, I am.
THE PRESIDENT: Upon filing the medical certificate the Defendant Oberheuser will be excused from attendance before the Tribunal during this afternoon's session at the request of her counsel, it appearing that her absence from the Tribunal this afternoon will not prejudice her case.
JOACHIM MRUCOWSKY - Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION - (Continued) BY DR. FLEMMING.Mr. President, the Defendant Mrugowsky made statements just preceding the recess regarding the question of his individual tasks as hygienist.
He then stated that the allocation of the disinfectant and decontamination age was in His charge. In this connection I submit affidavit of Jurt Georg Lange. It is on Page 11 of both the German and the English document books. I should like to submit it as Mrugowsky Exhibit No. 3. It reads as follows and I shall again leave out the introduction:
"On the 24th of August, 1944, upon request by the Chief Hygienist, Prof. Dr. Mrugowsky ... "
THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment, counsel, until the Tribunal ascertains just where you are beginning.
DR. SEIDL: On Page 11, the third paragraph.
THE PRESIDENT: I have the place now. Proceed.
BY DR. SEIDL:
"On 24 August 1944, upon request by the Chief Hygienist, Professor Dr. Mrugowsky, I was transferred from the field hospital of the Death-head Division to the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen-SS at Berl in-Schlachtensee, The immediate reason for this transfer was my activity since 1942 as a disinfector with a combat unit, using a motorized steam-sterilization, disinfection and delousing train designed by the Hygiene Institute in collaboration with the firm, B. J. Goedecker, Munich.
I the Hygiene Intitute I was employed as a clerk with the department for Sanitary Technique. The department Sanitary Technique worked on the design and construction of sterilization, disinfection and delousing combines and drinking water supply apparatuses, as well as delivery of same to combat units of the Waffen SS. The department was also in charge of administration, maintenance and operation of the institute motor pool. Another job of the department was the supply of antiseptics to the concentration camps. The distribution of Zyklon-B was not carried out by me but by the then Untersturmfuehrer Faber, after approval by the department chief. The allocations began approximately at the end of 1944 to the beginning of 1945. According to my knowledge, there were only extremely insignificant quantities of Zyklon-B available. (Difficulties in production caused by bombing.) The allocation of Zyklon was in each individual case decided upon by the Chief Hygienist. As substitutes, other chemicals for delousing -- as for instance sulphur preparations, (Diametan), were supplied. In many instances the demands for Zyklon could not be met at all.
"As to extermination of human beings in the concentration camps, I have heard nothing of this during the time of my employment with the Hygiene Institute. I learned of it only from the Belsen film, after my arrest. I never heard the extermination of human beings in the concentration camps being discussed in the Hygiene Institute, neither officially nor in private, and consequently I could have no idea that Zyklon-B was being supplied for the purpose of extermination of human beings. Antiseptics were always ordered by, and supplied to, the post physicians of the concentration camps. As far as I know, antiseptics were not supplied to the command posts of the concentration camps. Estimates regarding the quantities of Zyklon required were based on Doetzer's manual on decontamination, disinfection and delousing.
"Antiseptics like 'Gix', 'Gesarol,' 'DDT', and 'Lausetod', were available only in small quantities, or in some cases not at all. I personal only know that, out of the antiseptics mentioned above, 'Lauseted' was available in small quantities, and that it was to be used very economically. I have not heard of antiseptics being used for any other purpose than delousing against epidemics, decontamination and disinfection.
"Examining of disinfectors was carried out in disinfector training school of the Waffen SS at Oranienburg near Berlin.
"Motorized sterilization and delousing units with crews were also made available to the concentration camps upon requisition. Decontamination equipment, like Degesch chambers, hot-air chambers, and various implements, were partly available in the concentration camps.
"The actual disinfection was carried out by trained disinfectors, who were either requisitioned by, or permanently assigned to, the concentration camps. They always received their orders from the camp physicians in charge I have not heard of prisoners being ordered to carry out disinfection by themselves. Disinfectors, working with highly poisonous gasses, had to pass a training course and the final examination of the disinfectors' school, and had to have on official poison license.
"Requisitions for antiseptics were generally made monthly, but delivery was also made outside the regular supply, if ordered by the Chief Hygienist.
"The distribution center for this was the Central Medical Depot of Waffen SS, Berlin-Lichtenberg. " (Signed) "Kurt Georg Lange" and signature certified, in camp Meuemgamme.
The next two documents, Mr. President, Mrugowsky 55 and Mrugowsky 58, on pages 14 and 16 of the document book, I simply submit, to be identified. I included them in consideration of charges that were made against the defedant in previous interrogations but I do not consider it necessary now to read them into the record -- No. 55 and No. 58, on pages 14 and 16.-- I submit to as Exhibits Mrugowsky 4 and 5.
Now from an affidavit which is in document book 1-A, on page 170, I should like to read a brief passage into the record.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal has not yet received Document Book 1-A.
DR. FLEMMING: I know that, but I simply want to read, half a page into the record.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, Counsel.
DR. FLEMMING: This is an affidavit of the Chief of the Medical office of the Waffen SS, Dr. Karl Blumenreuther. He says:
THE PRESIDENT: Will you assign that an exhibit number now? If you are reading it into the record it should have an exhibit number.
DR. FLEMMING: I had planned to give it a number later, when I read the entire affidavit into the record, but it is perhaps more practical if I give it a number now. It is Mrugowsky No. 26.
THE PRESIDENT: It appears it would be better to avoid further confusion in the records later by giving this document an exhibit number now so that it may be identified if counsel desires to read it now and then come back to the same number, remembering the same number when it is offered and read in full.
DR. FLEMMING: Very well. This is Mrugowski Document Number 26. It is to be found in the German document book on Page 167; and I submit it as Mrugowsky Exhibit Number 6. Number 8 in this affidavit reads: "The allotment of the disinfectant Zyklon B through Mrugowsky's office took place in such a way that the local Standort doctors made their requests quarterly on regular forms. The delivery took place through the Central Medical Office, rather the Central Medical warehouse, after a previous conference had established what the amount was to be, in view of the available supplies. This regulation existed, so far as I know, from the year 1943 on. Previously the requests had been made through Lolling's office."
Number 10 reads: "Regarding the delivery of Prussic acid for exterminating human beings in concentration camps, I knew nothing. I consider it quite out of the question that Mrugowsky was given prussic acid for that purpose."
BY DR. FLEMMING:
Q. Witness, you just testified that you drew up a regulation for the concentration camps regarding the reporting of the outbreak of epidemics but that you were not successful in this. Did you then have no opportunity of taking steps on the basis of your position as highest hygienist or of influencing Grawitz? Grawitz was the medical superior of the doctors in the concentration camps.
A. To be sure Grawitz was the technical superior of the doctors in the concentration camps; but as such he could only give instructions in the medical sphere but not in matters of organization. In all statistical questions, the number of inmates or the number of sick inmates, did not belong in the medical but in the organizational field in which Grawitz had no influence whatsoever.
Q. What other tasks did you have as chief hygienist?
A. With the letterhead of chief hygienist all those letters were written which concerned the institutes which previously had been subordinate to Office 16. They concerned the procurement of materials, or transfers of personnel, or technical use of personnel, or professional instructions, or such matters. All of this belonged within the sphere of competence of the chief hygienist. However, that was only a relatively unimportant activity. The entire filing system of this office comprised, during this year and a half, two folders for ordinary letters and one small file for secret letters.
Q. In what way was your activity as chief hygienist different from your previous activity in Office 16 of the Fuehrung Main Office?
A. Activity in the Office 16 was more extensive, because the entire procurement for the Waffen-SS was the main job of this office; and Office 16 kept this job after the reorganization, whereas on the other hand the larger tasks, that had been planned as the tasks of the chief hygienist, were not given to him.
Q. What was your activity in the Hygiene Institute? First of all what was the size of this Institute?
A. The Institute, starting off on a small scale, developed into a rather large institute, which at the end of the war contained twentyfive scientists of the most varied fields and two hundred additional personnel in toto. The tasks, that it embraced also grew. The originally purely practical job of epidemic control was supplemented later by research tasks in varied fields. I set it as my goal not only to take care of the practical matters of epidemic control but to study and to search, into the biology of man as a whole from the medical point of view.
From this there resulted of necessity a number of professional departments which generally are not to be found in such a medical institute or hygiene institute. The individual research assignments resulted from practical experience.
The scope was as follows: The oldest department was that for bacteriology and virology. It, as a medical research office, examined incoming material for bacteria. This material came from the hospitals, field hospitals, and so forth. A second department was the Department for Medical Zoology, which was run by three zoologists. It was formed because of the necessity of combatting the insects that can communicate contagious diseases; and these insects, as in the case of other animals, have to be subjected to more exact research. Consequently, this struck the physician as a special problem that had to be dealt with. To this department belonged also a farm of poisonous snakes which were to serve as research material into the specific characteristics of the poisons of European and Near Eastern poisonous snakes and to apply them therapeutically.
A third department was that for hygienic technique. An engineer was in charge; it concerned itself with the construction of portable or motorized decontamination units for the purpose of delousing the troops. These units were set up with the divisions, particularly on the Eastern Front, and in part also in concentration camps to combat the spread of lice. They were operated mostly with hot air or steam. As I said, this department was also in charge of the Department for Antiseptics.
A fourth department was the Chemical Department, which was run at the end by six trained chemists. They had all been specially trained for their special tasks in this department; and this department had two assignments.
First, it had to test the water for the various units to see if it was safe. But the much larger one was the second one. We wanted to develop a vaccine against stomach typhpoid, and we had to ascertain just what its specific quota of bacteriological vaccine material should be, to immunize the human being, extensive knowledge of bacteriological chemistry, was a pre-requisite so that considerable work was to be done in this field.
Another department concerned itself with Geology, connected with finding water for the local units, -
Q. I believe you can be a little more brief?
A. There was another department for Climatology, which concerned itself with the question of climate, and, finally, there was a Statistical department which in particular concerned itself with research assignments, and with the problem of predicting epidemics, and to find a proctical solution to this problem. Finally, came the already known department for typhus and virus research, which was concerned with the production of a new typhus vaccine for the use of the SS. There was a large library a large amount of animals and various technical apparatus to complete the Institute.
DR. FLEMMING: I should like to correct a mistake in the translation in a previous question, the witness said, the field of activity of the Chief Hygienist filled only a few file volumes, and he spoke of two folders for tele graph matters. This was not translated as two folders but as two "employees" In other words, what is concerned, is not with the person in charge of the file, but the size of the actual file, there were two files.
BY DR. FLEMMING:
Q. Now how did you supervise the working departments, and how did you take part in it yourself?
A. The work was assigned by me to the department chiefs, and , of course with many suggestions for the work. Once a week, I made many visits to the various departments of the Institute. From time to time conferred with the competent departmental chiefs, and could always tell how much work a department was doing by the amount of material that was used, and this could be seen from their monthly requirements.
Q. What was your own work day in the Institute?
A. I worked from 9:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m., or even later in the Institute.
Q. Did you in addition do any private work?
A. In the Institute I had my own bacteriological laboratory in which I worked. At home, mainly at night, I wrote my scientific papers.
DR. FLEMMING: I submit to the Court the affidavit of the defendant Mrugowsky to be found on page 1 of the Document Book, offered as Mrugowsky's Exhibit No.7. The affidavit reads, after the usual introduction, where I shall now begin with the second paragraph. "The following scientific works by myself, and by co-workers at the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS, have been compiled by me according to my best knowledge and belief. The list is not complete. It contains merely the more important works. Since I had no data for the majority of them, and therefore had to rely on my memory, it is possible that the titles for the works mentioned by me are not literally correct in all details, and that years and places of publication are not exact. However I can assert that the works enumerated deal with the subjects as mentioned and that they are by the authors named by me."
Than on pages 2 to 7 there follows a list of these works.
BY DR. FLEMMING?
Q. Will you please tell the Tribunal again that you really wrote the works, and published the works that are listed here as your own?
A. Yes
Q. Was research work carried out by the Institute?
A. Yes, I already named part of it. Others concerned themselves with more detailed problems in the individual departments, with the production of maps that showed the spread of contagious diseases, bacteriological problems, chemical problems and so forth.
Q. According to what standpoints did you choose the leaders of the Institute under you?
A. From beginning of there on there was an order that applied to the whole of the Waffen SS that all physicians who had training in bacteriology and hygiene should automatically communicate with me, and were transferred to me.
This was necessary because at the beginning of the war there were only two bacteriologists in the whole Waffen SS, and, of course, those two were not sufficient to meet the tasks that arose as the result of the war in the East. Those appointed as Institute directors, or departmental chiefs, were so appointed on technical grounds, and on the basis cf their previous experience, and training.
DR. FLEMMING: Before I continue with my interrogation, of the witness, I should like to submit to the Court the Hippocratic Oath, that has so often been mentioned in this trial and has never been read in court. It seems to me that the text of this oath should be read in order that it be understood. Further, that such an oath is not an oath in the same sense as that of an oath sworn to before the court, or by an official. The oath is in Mrugowsky's Document No. 35 on page 19 of the Document Book, and should like to offer it as Mrugowsky's Exhibit No. 8.
The oath reads as follows:
"I swear by Apolle, the Physician, by Ascraepius (?) and Hygeia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods and goddesses, to carry out the following oath and obligation according to my ability and judgment:
To respect my teacher who taught me this art just as I do my parents; jointly with my life, if necessary, to share my goods with him; to look upon his children as my brothers, to teach them this art if they so desire without reward or written promise; to impart share of the precepts and instructions pertaining to the science to my sons and the sons of the master what taught me, and the disciples who belong to the guild and have taken oath of the Physicians' Law, but only to these alone.
I will prescribe the regimen for the good of my patients according to my ability and judgment, and keep away everything that may harm or injure them. To none shall I give a deadly poison, not even on request, nor give advice to that effect. Nor will I give to a woman the means of destroying growing life within her. I will keep my life pure and pious just as my art. I shall not even make a cut for gall stones in men, but I will leave this operation to those who practise this."
In this paragraph there are two insertions that do not belong to the oath itself, but which were made by him from whose version this wording of the oath originates. These are the words after "to perform a cut which destroys potency", and at the end of the paragraph "who practise this", the stone remove I continue now with my reading of the text:
"Every house I enter I shall enter only for the good of the patients, keeping myself away from all intentional ill-doing, and especially from acts of lust on the bodies of women and men, be they free or slaves. All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession, or outside of my profession in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be talked, about, I will keep secret by regarding this as a holy secret. If I carry out and keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men for all times; but if I swerve from it, or violate it, may the reverse be my lot."
As an indication that this oath of Hippocrates is no oath that has been delivered to us from antiquity with a firmly established text, I have on page 21 of the document book, under the same exhibit number, reproduced the form of the oath used in France, which differs considerably from the text just read. It reads:
"This is the Hippocratic Oath, as taken at the Faculty of Medicine in Paris: In presence of the masters of our school and of my beloved codisciples and before the image of Hippocrates, I promise and swear herewith that I will be faithful to the rules of honor and probity in the practice of medicine. I will assist the poor without fee, and never will I charge for my work a higher fee than it deserces. As a guest in other people's houses, I will not let my eyes perceive what is going on there; my tongue will not reveal the secrets which are confided to me, and I will do nothing in my profession which corrupts the morals and favors crime. Out of respect and gratitude toward my masters, I will pass on to their children all that I have learned from the fathers. May men esteem me if I keep my promise, and may I be covered with shame and despised by my colleagues if I fail."
That is the French version.
MR. HARDY: Your Honor, would it be possible for me to see the original exhibit ?
DR. FLEMMING: The German original is in a library book which I could not give to the Tribunal for good. I ask that we follow the same procedure as was followed in the case of Dr. Sauter; namely, that a certified true copy, certified by me, be accepted in lieu of the original.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel will exhibit the book to the Prosecution. After the Prosecution has examined it, a certified copy may be substituted.
MR. HARDY: Thank you, Your Honor. I have examined it, Your Honor, and I am satisfied.
BY DR. FLEMMING:
Q. Witness, did you take this oath of Hippocrates?
A. No.
Q. From the way in which the oath is mentioned here, one could reach the conclusion that it is the professional oath of the physician.
Is that the case?
A. The oath of Hippocrates has for many centuries not been considered an oath in the legal sense of the term, like the oath that an official takes or the oath that a witness takes. Throughout my entire period of study and in my period of training, this oath was never submitted to no, and only a very few among my large circle of doctor friends became acquainted with this oath at the time when they were receiving their doctorates. Even in the case of the universities where that was customary, that was not an oath but simply the basis for a certain form of an obligation in which the physician would be instructed in his duties as a doctor.
Q. You have concerned yourself with the question of medical ethics and have published a book before the beginning of the war on this subject. I submit an excerpt from this book to the Court as Mrugowsky Document 36. It is on page 22 of the document book. I should like to offer it as Mrugowsky Exhibit Number 9. The defendant has only one copy of this book itself. Consequently, I ask permission to show the book to the Prosecution and then to submit a certified copy in lieu of the original. From this document number 36 I should like to read only a few passages. First, page 23:
"The task of the physician has always been the same, to heal the sick and to return them to life, with efficiency restored. One would think that this defined the task clearly and for all time. But if we look into the history of medical science, we see that the interpretation of this task has found anything but universal agreement. It is true that there has always been unanimity about the final aim, but for this reason the views as to its achievement differed.
"Each generation has its own attitude towards the problems of life which never recur with the same complete exactitude. From century to century, from decade to decade, even from day to day knowledge advances, and there is always something regarded as a foregone conclusion by the younger generation which was still a problem for the older. There is a continuous crumbling from the rock of the unknown, and every new germ of knowledge appears to the younger generation as a star snatched from the infinite firmament of eternal divinity.
Youth would not be youth if it did not leap with a smile over the restricting doubts of its elders; it would be without strength if it did not experience the unique, newly born feeling which is innate in every rising generation and which alone gives it creative power. Each generation was once young and ready to storm the heavens; the, as the decades passed, it became more slow and more deliberate, and the great problems of life always repeated themselves, although never exactly, always a little more advanced in accordance with the progress of knowledge and method. But the questions themselves--"
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, it is now about time for the noon recess. Can you give me the date? I notice that this was written by Dr. Hufeland and edited with an introduction by the defendant Mrugowsky. Can you tell me the date of this publication?
THE WITNESS: 1939.
THE PRESIDENT: How much of this document do you propose to read into the record, Counsel?
DR. FLEMMING: I wished to read the first paragraph on the next page, an the last, and of page 24 the first four lines, from the next page the first three lines, and then on page seven of the document, I intended to read all of that, and a small piece from page S.
THE PRESIDENT: It seems to me that; reading so extensively into the record, if the Tribunal has this before it in this form, is rather unnecessary and takes up time for no particularly good purpose. Counsel may read a few of the extracts but should choose the more important ones and not read as many as were contemplated according to his recent statement.
The Tribunal is now recessed until 1:30.
(A recess was taken until 1330 hours.)
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1330 hours, 26 March 1947.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
MR. HARDY: May it Please the Tribunal, during the presentation -
THE PRESIDENT: Just a minute, Mr. Hardy. The Secretary General will file for the record a medical certificate in regard to the defendant Oberhauser's condition. Proceed.
MR. HARDY: During the presentation of the defense thus far to date of the other defendants it has been more or less the practice to put in the documentary evidence during the course of the examination of the defendant, but it has been true that most of the defense counsel have limited that to documents which are important for the purpose of the examination. I should request that Dr. Flemming refrain from trying to introduce all of his documentary evidence during the course of his examination. The purpose of the examination is to ask pointed Questions, facts, to the defendant and to save his documentary evidence to be introduced separately, inasmuch as in some instances it is absolutely unconnected with the testimony of the defendant and I think it would be more expeditious than the manner in which he is beginning to follow now taking document after document in his document book. I request the Tribunal to rule on the suggestion of the prosecution.
DR. FLEMMING: Mr. President, I am only going to submit documents as they refer to the count of the prosecution and as I am asking defendant Mrugowsky regarding that document. I would consider it in that case to be more expedient to submit this document during the examination rather than submitting document after document after the examination, which would be completely out of its context.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, documents which tend to elucidate the testimony of the witness may be offered during his examination but only if they are particularly pertinent to the matters on which the witness is being interrogated. Documents of a general nature should be reserved until after the testimony of the witness is completed, but when counsel deems it of importance to present certain documents during the examination he may do so JOACHIM MRUGOWSKY - Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) BY DR. FLEMMING: