A. This came to my knowledge through a liaison man between the Party Chancellory and the OKW. He was present at that time during discussions regarding these student companies and was with the OKW from whom he received these directives and whom he had to influence him, but he was the liaison man between the Party Chancellory and the OKW.
THE PRESIDENT: Has counsel for the Defendant Handloser any further questions?
DR. NELTE: No, thank you, not at the moment.
THE PRESIDENT: Defense counsel may now cross-examine Defendant Handloser as a witness. Are there any questions on behalf of any defense counsel?
BY DR. FRITZ FLEMMING: (Defense counsel for Defendant Doachim Mrugowsky.)
Q. As the highest ranking representative of the Wehrmacht here, I should like to ask you what influence does any military assignment in military life have and what responsibility. However, at first I should like to ask you what the responsibility as regarding the superior and subordinate should mean? Is the following correct; the superior in personal and organizational matters and also in technical matters has the right to issue orders to the subordinate; is that correct?
A. I should like to refer you to the fact that I mentioned before that we have to differentiate between the military and technical superiors.
Q. What kind of superiors are you speaking of when you say technical superiors?
A. With regard to the technical superiors, there were two possibilities; either he was superior in every respect, as I read to you before, where he at the same time is the troop commander and at that time he becomes the superior in all matters. On the other hand, he may only be a technical superior and in that case he is only a superior in matters that refer to medical matters.
Q. Now, if any subordinate was assigned to a different agency, would the following be correct; the superior who was superior up to that tine remained as such, that is in a personal regard. The superior of the new agency, on the other hand, had the right to issue orders in technical matters?
A. Yes, that may well be correct.
A. Could a situation arise in questions of military competency that a superior had the right to issue directives to a subordinate, who war not directly subordinate to him?
A. Yes, that happened too.
Q. "That influence did these relationships have - the superiors in relationship to responsibility; is it correct that whoever issued an order had to assume responsibility for whatever he ordered and that whoever carried out the order had to assume responsibility for what he was doing?
A. That is correct.
Q. Then, I should like to ask a question with reference to another sphere; for what reason was the participation of the Waffen SS necessary during the meeting of the consulting physicians?
A. The Waffen SS, ever since the beginning of the war, was participating with the Wehrmacht and committed to the Wehrmacht and in an ever increasing amount the entire services, including the medical service, had to establish contacts, of course, fighting shoulder to shoulder with other branches of the Wehrmacht and of course were living under the same conditions and were complying with the same directives. That is why it was necessary that even at the time, when there were only a few divisions committed, that these medical officers had contact with the entire leadership and received knowledge and reports about the principles, which were valid for the entire system and that is in particular reference to gygiene.
Q. Thank you, I have no further questions.
MR. McHANEY: I would like to have the record show that the questions, which have just been put to the witness, have been put by Dr. Flemming for the Defendant Mrugowsky.
THE PRESIDENT: The record will so show.
BY DR. HEINZ FRITZ: (Defense Counsel for Defendant Gerhard Rose.)
Q. Witness, did you know the Defendant Rose before the 8th of May, I945?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you at any time speak to the defendant Rose about any of the counts as charged by the prosecution before May 8th, 1945 or did you have any written or other communications directly or indirectly with him?
A. No.
Q. Did you at any time see the Defendant Rose participate in any conferences where the counts as charged in the indictment were discussed or reported?
A. No.
Q. Apart from whether the date or the contents of the conferences, mentioned in the Ding Diary of the 29th of December, 1941, are correct or not, I should like you to tell me whether the Defendant Rose at any time took part in a typhus meeting where you or Secretary of State Conti attended too?
A. No.
Q. Is the Defendant Rose, as far as you know; or rather was the Defendant Rose considered as a specialist for typhus vaccine?
A. No, Rose in the first instance was a troop hygienist.
Q. Did you ask the Defendant Rose to give you his counsel about the investigation of the typhus vaccine?
A. No.
Q. Is it correct to say, if I assume accordingly, that Rose was not consulted by you in typhus vaccine matters, because he was not a specialist in that field, although you, yourself, as Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service, would have had the possibility to ask him had you wanted to do so?
A. Yes, that is correct. Rose did not belong to the center, which I would have turned to in regard to these questions.
Q. And now another question; you were already speaking about the tasks of the consulting physicians with the armed forces. I should like you to give me some information about the special physicians and the consulting physicians with the Medical Inspectorate of the Armed Forces Branch. Were these consulting specialists of the Medical Inspectorate the superiors in any respect of the consulting physicians at any leading medical agency and by that I mean the army group physician the district command physicians, the air fleet physicians, etc.?
A. No, they were in no way superiors.
Q. According to the principles which were valid with the German Wehrmacht, would a consulting specialist or medical inspector ever be considered as responsible fur whatever another consulting physician in his sphere did or did not do?
A. No, that is out of the question.
Q. Could you give me the reasons why one desisted from making the consulting physicians with the Medical Inspectorates superiors of the consulting physicians at lower echelons?
A. That would have been quite impossible and would not have been correct. These consulting physicians had completely different ages. They were in different age groups. They were naturally assigned from different Parts of Germany and the principle was always followed that they be assigned to such army groups that were in the same home territory, so you have to consider that, and if you also consider the differences of rank it could be quite possible that an older and recognized physician, although he may have a lower rank from the beginning, that he would be confronted with a younger physician who started his career in the Army earlier and therefore had a higher rank. This in itself would have presented us with impossible situations which would have defeated the special purpose which we had in mind with these consulting physicians.
Q. What personal knowledge did you gain about the activity of the defendant Rose during the working meetings of the consulting physicians?
A. Mr. Rose held many lectures. These lectures were listened to with great interest and were finally concluded with the last lecture in the year of 1944 which was made during the last meeting, about the effects on the human body of -
Q. The defendant Rose during the entire war was the consulting hygienist and tropical medical expert with the Medical Inspectorate, or rather, with the chief of the Medical Service of the Luftwaffe. In this capacity he got into contact with you and members of your office. Would you please say something about the way he was considered materially and professionally by you and your agency?
A. Rose was considered as an extremely experienced specialist in his field, who combined great scientific knowledge with practical abilities. I knowledge was always considered to be very high, respected. His statements were always to the point and especially critical.
Q. Another question. Were the military authorities and tasks; that is to say, the executive authorities and the power of command of a consulting scientist who had become Generalarzt of the reserve, incompliance with such that one would have to expect with any man who holds such a rank; that is to say, an active Generalarzt?
A. At first, I have to say that the general position of all generals was the same. There was no difference at all. What you are really referring to are the authorities and the power of command which he had and in that connection I have to say that the consulting physicians had no power of command and no authority to issue orders. In addition, I have to say that if an active Generalarzt was a consulting physician the question of whether he was active or not active plays no part at all. It is the position which counts, and during the entire war there was no necessity to give any special power of command to these consulting physicians.
Q. Do you remember that during the autumn of 1944 the SD wanted to introduce proceedings against Professor Rose because of treason, since Prorfessor Rose held lectures in the neutral countries abroad, Switzerland and Turkey, wherein he described the progress in detail which was made in Germany in the field of combat of typhus and malaria?
A. Yes, I remember that.
Q. Do you further know that professor Rose explained his attitude by saying that according to his opinion the results of medical research in was well as in peace should benefit the entire society, just in the same way as the individual physician was obliged to make no difference in his work between friend or foe?
A. Yes, I know that.
Q. Did you know what consequences Professor Rose had to expect resulting from his attitude, and did you cover him with the authority of your agency?
A. Yes, I did that in agreement with the medical chief of the Luftwaffe as far as I remember.
Q. What would Professor Rose have had to expect had he not been covered by you and his superiors at the airforce?
A. He would have to expect that some political measures would be taken against him.
Of course I cannot say what kind of measure.
Q. My last question. You were testifying earlier that you attended the hepatitis meeting in Breslau in the year of 1944. Was Professor Rose there?
A. No.
DR. FRITZ: Thank you. Mr. President, I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: I would like to advise Dr. Nelte, attorney for the defendant Handloser, that I have had some information just handed to me that the witnesses, Dr. Wolfgang Schmidt-Bruecken and Hans Hartleben, are not now available in Nuernberg. Counsel might inquire at the Defense Information Center and possibly obtain more information than I have available here.
The Tribunal will now recess until 1:30 o'clock this afternoon.
(A recess was taken until 1330 hours.)
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1330 hours, 13 February 1947).
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: In regard to the application of Defendant Rudolf Brandt for an excuse, The Tribunal directs that the Secretary-General inform the commander of the prison that he should instruct the prison surgeon to examine the Defendant, Rudolf Brandt, concerning his physical condition and report to the Tribunal so that the Tribunal then may determine its future action. As the Tribunal will not be in session after this afternoon until Tuesday morning, there will be adequate time for the examination and the report.
The Defendant, Rudolf Brandt, may be excused from attendance at the request of his Counsel for this afternoon session.
Is there any further cross-examination of Defendant Handloser by any Defense Counsel? There being none, the Prosecution may cross-examine.
SIEGFRIED HANDLOSER - Resumed CROSS*EXAMINATION BY MR. MC HANEY:
MR. MC HANEY: May it please the Tribunal:
Q General, as I understand it, you admit that by virtue of your position as army physician and army medical inspector, you had complete command and control over the Army Medical Service, the Sanitaetsdienst and the Sanitaetswesen, is that right?
A Yes. I was the head of the medical system of the army and the superior of the entire medical personnel.
Q And that control covered the period January, 1941, to September, 1944?
A Yes.
Q I take it, therefore, that you must assume responsibility for all official activities of the Army medical Service during that period?
I have already stated that I dornot have any doubts about the fact that I have tolbear the responsibility for whatever I have ordered through a general order or by means of a decree.
Q What was this institute for typhus and virus research at Lemberg which you testified was under the control of the OKH?
A Yes. It was subordinated to the Medical Inspectorate of the High Command of the Army.
Q Well, was that the vaccine production plant of the Behring Works at Lemberg?
A No. As far as I am informed, the Institute of the OKH at Krakow or at Lemberg did not have anything to do with the institute for the Behring Works. In any case, I have not been informed of anything else.
Q Did this Institute for Typhus and Virus Research at Lemberg for the OKH produce typhus vaccine?
A They produced the well-known typhus vaccine from the intestines of lice according to the Weigl method.
Q Under whose control and jurisdiction was the vaccine production plant of the Behring Works?
A I cannot say that exactly. I only know one thing about the Behring Works, that the name of Dr. Haas was mentioned in that connection.
Q Did the typhus institute of the OKH at Lemberg and at Krakow do any research work on the efficacy of typhus vaccines, or was their work simply restricted to vaccine production?
A The Weigl Vaccine which was produced by the Institute had already existed several years before the outbreak of the war, and as I have already stated in yesterday's session, it was produced on a large-scale in various countries, and it was tested in various countries with regard to its effectiveness and its compatibility. Therefore, a testing of this vaccine was not necessary anymore.
Q Well, your answer there is, then, that these two typhus institute of the OKH restricted their activities to vaccine production, is that right?
A Yes. I do not know what other possibility can be seen besides production, because the typhus institute at Krakow or at Lemberg, as far as I know, tried to find yet another vaccine. First of all, it was the task to carry out and increase with all possible means the production of the vaccine, and as far as I remember, it has also made experiments on animals in order to be able to cut down the percentage of the vaccine and thus to obtain a larger amount.
Q Did you ever visit the Institute OKH at Limberg?
A In 1939 I visited the Institute at Krakow, and in 1941 or 1942 I have also visited the Institute at Limberg. On the occasion of the visit to Limberg I also talked to Dr. Weigl, himself, who was the man who had introduced the vaccine.
Q In other words, Weigl was working at Limberg in 1941, when you visited there?
A Yes, he was working in the Institute.
Q Who was the Commander of the Institute?
A Prof. Dr. Eyer, a high staff medical officer who had received special training in this procedure.
Q He was also the Commanding Officer of the Institute at Krakow; is that right?
A Yes.
Q Now, General, you testified on direct examination that after being appointed Chief of the Medical Service of the Wehrmacht on 28 July 1942, it was one of your duties to provide uniform and coordinated measures in the field of Health Guidance, research, and combating of epidemics, and all medical measures which required a uniform ruling among the Wehrmacht; is that right?
AA uniform coordination and coordination was one of my assignments or measures.
Q And, that applied to the field of health guidance, research, the combating of epidemics, and all medical measures which required a uniform ruling; is that right?
AA similar text is contained in my official instructions, as to the performance of my duties.
Q And, your tasks also covered the evaluation of medical experiences and medical matters of the recruiting system, of the welfare and maintenance of prisoners of war?
A Yes, but I want to point out that what you are reading now, that is from the official instructions for my duties of the year 1944.
Q Now, General, I want you to pay close attention to my questions end we will get along a little faster. The first question I put to you was, your tasks after you were first appointed on 28 July l942, and I asked you with respect to that, if it was not your duty to provide uniform and coordinated measures in the field of health guidance, research, and the combating of epidemics, and all medical measures which required uniform ruling. Now, give me an answer, yes or no?
A The decree of 1942, this is not contained-
Q (Interposing) General, we all understand it is not in the decree of 1942, or I would not be asking you the question. The fact is there was a service regulation issued on 28 July 1942, which the Prosecution has not yet put into evidence, and I am asking you some questions about your duties as contained in that service regulation, and I will ask you to give an answer now to the question I put to you.
A The tasks of the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service generally referred to, what you have mentioned, the coordination of those--also in view of these sections of the medical service which could not be coordinated at all.
Q And, that covered health guidance, did it not?
A Well, this question is very difficult to answer. When I issue an order, then that indicated already that by some means I shall see that these measures are carried out.
Q And, your tasks in the field of having coordinated measures also covered the combating of epidemics; did it not?
A Yes.
Q And, scientific research?
A Yes, scientific research has been repeatedly discussed here, and it has been described, and it has been stated how this has to be understood. Now, one must differentiate on the subject.
Q And, the service regulations of 28 July 1942, also stated that it was your job to have coordinated the evaluation of medical experiments and medical matters of the recruiting system; did it not?
A That may be, yes.
Q And, it also covered the welfare and maintenance of prisoners of war; did it not?
A Yes.
Q Now, General, as you have already observed, the duties which I have just been interrogating you about, which were contained in the service regulations of 28 July 1942, issued to you by Fieldmarshal Keitel, are some of the same duties that are contained in the service regulations of 7 August 1944.
A I am not able to confirm that because I have personally asked for this service regulation, and as far as I am informed, my Defense Counsel has tried to, by all means, to produce this regulation in the official Army communications of 1942, and in the Army guidance sheets. They have been repeatedly requested and we were unable to find any service regulations contained in them.
Q Well, General, we are mutually distressed that you do not have them in front of you, but in spite of that, I am going to ask you a few more questions about it. It must be a matter of considerable information, which you have, since you were operating under that service regulation for a little more than two years. I have had placed before you the service regulations of 7 August 1944; that is Document No. 0227, Prosecution's Exhibit 6, and I just briefly want to go ever it with you, to see exactly how much difference there was between these service regulations of 28 July 1942, which you do not have, and these service regulations which you do have of 7 August 1944.
DR. NELTE: Mr. President, may it please the Tribunal, I request a ruling of the Tribunal, if it is admissible, that the service regulations of 1944 are present in the service regulations of 1942, if the service regulations of 1942 are not given to the defendant. If there is a comparison to be drawn between those two service regulations, then he, as defendant, cannot support himself on that alone. What the Prosecution is reading to him is contained in the service regulations of 1944, but he must also be given the opportunity to examine that and to point out the practical differences, which perhaps cannot be recognized from the text alone, especially with regard to the authority.
MR. McHANEY: If the Tribunal pleases, I must object to having the cross examination interrupted in this manner. I have nothing else to say about Dr. Nelte's objections on this part. There certainly cannot be any objections to my putting these questions to the witness.
THE PRESIDENT: The Counsel for the defendant may interpose any objection that he desires to interpose. The Tribunal will ask the Prosecution if it has available the regulations of 1942, which have been referred to?
MR. McHANEY: We do not, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: If the witness is unfamiliar with the regulations that are not before him, he may say so, but the objection as made by the Defense Counsel will be overruled.
BY MR. McHANEY:
Q General, I did not tell you that we had these service regulations, and if you jumped to that conclusion by some of the questions I put to you, why that is your own responsibility on the testimony that you are about to give. In any event, we are interested in knowing what was in these service regulations of 28 July 1942. Let us look at the one of 7 August 1944, which is before you, look under Part 2 where it says "Duties". The first paragraph reads: "The Chief of the Medical Service of the Wehrmacht is the adviser of the Chief of the High Command of the Wehrmacht in all questions concerning the medical service of the Wehrmacht and of its health guidance." Was that same paragraph in the regulations of 28 July 1942?
A I cannot tell you that. I cannot remember the exact text of the service regulations.
Q General, we understand that you couldn't sit down and dictate this service regulation of 28 July 1942; but isn't it a fact that you were the adviser of Keitel after 28 July 1942 on medical questions? Isn't that right?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q Isn't that all that this first paragraph says?
A The first paragraph states; "The chief of the medical service is the adviser of the chief of the OKW in all questions pertaining to the service of the Wehrmacht and the other organizations." That is the text as it is already contained in the service regulation of 1938 or 1940 for the army medical inspector.
Q Now, General, we aren't interested in what was contained in that one. We are just interested in the one of 28 July 1942; and I take it that substantially the same paragraph was in that one. Is that right?
A Since a similar paragraph is also contained in the regulation for the special consultant of the OKW it is probable that it is provided for in the similar text in the regulation of 1942.
Q Very well, let's look at Paragraph 2. That says: "The chief of the medical services of the Wehrmacht will direct the total medical services of the Wehrmacht as far as the special field is concerned with regard for the military instructions of the chief of the high command of the armed forces and the general rules of the Fuehrer's commissioner general or medical and health department." That same paragraph was in the service regulation of 28 July 1942, wasn't it?
A I am unable to give you an exact statement on that.
Q Was the same paragraph in substance in the service regulation of July 1942?
A I cannot say how many paragraphs were contained in the service regulation; how they were ordered; and what they contained individually.
Q General, doesn't the Fuehrer decree itself require you to take certain instructions in the special field from Karl Brandt? Isn't he authorized to intervene in a responsible manner by that decree?
A In the directive by the Fuehrer of 1942, as far as I know, it is stated that the general commissioner of the Fuehrer is authorized to decide that he has to be informed about fundamental things from the army medical service; that he is authorized to include himself; that he is allowed to intervene.
That is what is contained in the Fuehrer decree which we have here.
Q Let's go on to the third paragraph, General. The first part reads: "The chief of the medical services of the Wehrmacht will inform the Fuehrer's commissioner general about major events in the field of the medical services of the Wehrmacht." That was required by the service regulation of 28 July 1942, wasn't it?
A I cannot say that with certainty. It is possible that this statement is contained in my memory from perhaps this regulation. It is quite possible that the text originates from this. That is the directive of 1944.
Q Weren't you required by the Fuehrer decree of 28 July 1942 to report to Brandt on basic or fundamental events?
A Well, I would have to ask you to hand over the decree to me. I cannot state that without it.
Q But, General, you've seen this decree I guess a dozen times already and you operated under it for about four years. Did you as a matter of fact report to Karl Brandt on fundamental events in the medical service after 28 July of '42? Can you tell us about that?
AAbout matters pertaining to the medical field I cannot remember any specific case. They were mostly cases which pertained to the status of the military physicians or which dealt with special emergency conditions, or it was a request for some support or aid with vehicles or airplanes.
Q Let's go on to the next paragraph, Paragraph 3. It says: "You will represent the Wehrmacht to the civilian authorities in mutual medical affairs and will protect their interests in connection with the health measures of the civilian administrative authorities." Wasn't that contained in substance in the service regulation of 28 July 1942?
A I cannot say that. It is understood that the task of the chief of the medical service toward the civilian authorities is. I would like to say that it is a certainty.
Q But you would like to say that it was contained in there? Is that right?
A I cannot say that. I have to state again that it is after a long time here when we discussed these questions for the first time in the discussion about basic documents which I would like to have. I came here without any documents at all; and then I requested the Fuehrer decree of 1942. If there were any additional explanations for it or not, I personally stated on the subject that something should still be available in writing. I know for certain that Dr. Nelte has obtained the army regulation sheet; but I can remember when he told us that there is nothing on the subject contained in it. I told him that I would read it over myself perhaps since he was unable to find it. Actually, it was not listed in the table of contents; and I have looked through the sheets for this particular sheet. Then there is the further documentary sheet about general army communications. Dr. Nelte obtained this sheet also, and nothing was contained in it. So that I myself became suspicious. Then Dr. Nelte wrote to somebody else and he received the information that this must be contained in the army regulations, either on sheets A, B, or C. Then we again read over the army sheet of regulations; and we did not find anything whatsoever in Parts A, B, and C.
Q Now, General, this is all very sad that you haven't been able to find all these documents that you'd like to have; but both the defense and the prosecution are laboring under some of those same difficulties. I am just trying to get a little information from you here about what you were doing as chief of the medical services of the Wehrmacht; and I assume that since you held that job for about four years, you have some vague recollection about what you were doing and what you were supposed to do. One of the questions is just exactly what changes took place after this service regulation of 7 August 1944. I have a very vague suspicion that your duties and your powers weren't broadened to any substantial extent at all; and I am now trying to find out wherein lies the difference between your duties and responsibilities as of 28 July 1942 and as of 7 August 1944.
Now, if you don't know and can't tell us what these differences were, will you just go ahead and state right now that you don't know, and then we can move on to some other topic.
A I have already stated here that it is clearly indicated by the Fuehrer decress that the main difference lies in that I was granted an authority to issue orders; and the second is a separation of the previous personal union between the medical inspector.
Q Now, General, we understand this separation; and I'm of the opinion that was really the reason that this second Fuehrer decree was issued and that was substantially the only reason; but you say that in addition you got some power to issue orders. I suppose that is contained in Part I of this service regulation. Will you look at that and tell us wherein this additional power was given to you?
A It is stated under Number I in the last sentence of Paragraph 1 of the Fuehrer decree: "He is authorized to issue orders in all specific questions within his field of competence." In the decree under Article 2 in the service regulation approved by the Fuehrer it is stated under Paragraph 2, II, "The authority who, according to Paragraph 1, that is, is the authority in question, also refers to the army medical inspector, the chief of the navy medical service, the chief of the medical service of the Luftwaffe, the chief of the medical service of the Waffen SS, and the medical chiefs of the organizations and services employed within the framework of the Wehrmacht, while they are acting in the area of command of the Wehrmacht." Therefore, that is in Paragraph 2 the explanation of the authority given in Paragraph 1 of the Fuehrer decree.
Q You didn't have any power to issue orders to Hippke and Schroeder before 7 August, 1944, is that what you want to say?
A Before 1944 I did not have authority to issue orders.
Q Before 7 August, 1944?
A Yes.
Q Well did you have any power to issue general instructions which would be binding upon Hippke and Schroeder?
AAfter the decree of 1944 I was able to do that.
Q We are not talking about the period now after the service regulation and the Fuehrer Decree of 7 August, 1944. We are both agreed that from and after that time you could issue orders. I am now inquiring about your authority before that time, and I asked you if you could issue general instructions to Hippke and Schroeder which would be binding on them?
A In the field of material coordination and from the necessity which arose for a simple case within the Medical Service and its coordination, I was able to issue an order in cases of this kind, because otherwise I would have been unable to carry out such a coordination. However, the branches of the Wehrmacht and the Medical Chiefs were able to object to these orders and I did not have the authority to issue directives, authority to issue these directives in the form of an order, and that is what is the main thing in the military field.
Q Before August 1944 you did have power to issue directives, but you say you did not have any power to issue orders, is that right?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q Could you go to Keitel and have him pass down an order for you to Hippke and Schroeder?
A Yes, to a certain extent Keitel was able to issue such a directive. That is also the case with regard to mutual measures, like, for example, the protecting of troops against the winter and similar cases.
Q We understand your special field, General, and nobody is insisting you had the power to issue an order to Hippke having nothing to do with the medical service or your so-called special field. We are just limiting ourselves to the special field. Now, doctor, Hippke has testified before another Tribunal here and he was - I am reading from the English transcript, of the 7 February, 1947, in the action "United States vs.
Erhard Milch", page 765, Hippke was asked:
"What was your official connection with General Oberstabsarzt Handloser of the Medical Department of the Wehrmacht?"
And Hippke replied:
"When the Medical Department of the Wehrmacht was created it was sought to combine all questions that concerned any of the three branches of the Army, and he was my superior as Medical General. Handloser who had previously been on an equal basis with me as medical inspector for the army, now when he also took on the new task, he became my superior."
And then the further question was put to Hippke:
"Well, could he give you orders? What do you mean by the word "superior"?"
And I know you will be surprised to hear that Hippke answered:
"Yes, he could give me orders and establish a policy."
Now, was Hippke not telling the exact truth when he said you could issue orders to him? You know Hippke went out on the 1st of January, 1944, and that was seven months before this second Fuehrer decree was issued. What do you have to say about Hippke's testimony?
A In connection with his testimony I want to say that If Hippke claims that I had authority to issue orders and if he has described me as his superior then I am unable to understand that, because then it would have been completely unnecessary to expressly demand in 1944 that I be given authority to issue orders in a particular manner, and Admiral Doenitz would still be able to remember this exactly, that in accordance with my previous experiences, I could only recall carry out my assignments if I was to become his superior, and the Gross Admiral, in spite of all efforts by Keitel, disapproved this, and with a lot of difficulty in 1944, he finally succeeded in obtaining for me the authority to issue orders. All of this would have been unnecessary if I had been given authority to issue orders already in 1942.
Q Well it still would have been necessary because you left your job as Army Medical Inspectorate, you know, so that it is quite natural they would issue a new service regulation. Was there any difference between the Army Medical Inspector and the Chief of the Medical Service of the Army?
A No, but between the Army Medical Inspector and the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service.
Q What was the difference?
A The Army Medical Inspector was the head of the Army Medical Service.
Q General I understand, at least I think I understand, they were both heads of their respective medical services, but I am curious to know why there was this verbal difference between the Chief of the Medical Service of the Luftwaffe, and the Army Medical Inspector. Is there any reason for this or is it just old practice?
A The Army Medical Inspector, whose office was already in existence before the Luftwaffe was established, has always had this title, because the army was organized in this manner. It was organized to the extent that all of the branches had their own inspector. There was an Inspector of the Infantry, of the Artillery, and also an Army Medical Inspector. In the course of the years this could not be changed in spite of the title, although the title did not apply.
Q With respect to your medical duties as Chief of the Medical Service of the Wehrmacht, was Karl Brandt your technical superior?
A I have already stated yesterday or the day before that Brandt was not my superior.
Q Well why did you make such a statement in your affidavit, General? Were you imposed upon by one of these interrogators?
I have also stated here in the brief history of my life, as I have called it here, this contained many mistakes, and in the end and also some part of the draft when it was presented to me, it contained the following sentence. "Professor Brandt was my military and my medical superior", that is approximately what was stated there, and then I stated in that connection, that is incorrect, and I have crossed out the word "military" and then by mistake the "superior" remains with regard to the medical field and I have corrected that here.
Q Well General, I have heard what you have testified, but I am at a loss to get any sense from the testimony. You admit you struck out some language in the same sentence, why didn't you strike the whole line out?