here. I further more know myself that special research was already being furthered and supervised by other agencies, and that furthermore the necessities of the war were limited te a certain number.
Q. In the chart, Exhibit No. 1, you described the proportion of your activity for the Reich Commissioner; you kept it more or less oven. You say here it was about 15 percent of your daily work; was it not so that from time to time the activity was much greater or was it always as you have drawn it here, did your work in the clinic continue fully?
A. Of course the work in the clinic comes to a full extent. Of course, it has happened once in a while that I was unable to come to Berlin for several days, that I had some special work elsewhere. This description is for the average of a week, but you cannot concentrate that on one individual day.
Q. But, on the whole, it was like that?
A. Yes, on the whole it was like that.
Q. And you said that three or four of your assistants worked on these questions; does this chart refer to the activities of your assistants and did they also work at the clinic?
A. They also worked at the clinic, but on week days I was in Berlin almost every day and at least two or three of my men stayed in Berlin, but they returned in the evening.
Q. Was the clinic in Berlin?
A. Yes, at the clinic. In the evening we returned to Belitz and then general discussions took place; this was in mostly in the evening.
Q. Now, were there any written official instructions for this activity issued by the Commissioner General?
A. No, I told Brandt of my opinion and he left me alone in the execution. I had drafted for myself such a service regulation on one occasion, but I did not like the wording because for the formulation of such regulations I lacked the administrative juristic experience and so that draft never went beyond it being placed in my desk drawer.
Q. This draft is perhaps not important. I should like to ask you if you know the decree, the decree of September, 1943? This decree mentioned medical science and research and your office was called the Office for Science and Research. At that time, from the time of your appointment on, did you consider yourself as a sort of dictator in the field of science and research?
A. No, I never did that. First of all every legal basis was lacking for this and all orders from Brandt to me were lacking and also, of course, any personal tendency for that was lacking too.
Q. And you did not consider the decree in that sense either?
A. No, I did not understand it to be in this way. In my opinion, only one person can want to be a dictator and that is one who does not have the slightest idea about real science. You cannot tell anybody on that kind of work to reach a certain goal in regard to research. You may stimulate or suggest to him that he do something of that kind and if he complies with the suggestion, then you can further lend a helping hand in a material field, but my motives I have already explained.
I can add in this respect that my work was carried out in the face of quite a number of difficulties. I was not able to give any orders at all. I had to try to gain the confidence of the people step by step. I had to try to gain influence. Even in a state system and with a dictatorship, it is still impossible to become a scientific dictator, because the basis of all scientific progress lies in the critics, also in criticism toward things which one already thinks had been proved. Such an attitude excludes any subordination or mental subordination under a dictator.
A. Could you not at least appear as a promoter of research, did you not have a free hand financially, did you not have large funds at your disposal?
A. No, we did not have one cent for anything of this kind.
Q. Karl Brandt in an interrogatien said and a record of this interrogation has been submitted by the prosecution here, it is Document No. 1730, Prosecution Exhibit 441. Karl Brandt said that you had a part in discussions concerning the economic aspects what was that about?
A. This was the limitation of the production of medical equipment and medicine, which I have already previously mentioned, but in this respect I obtained statements by people acquainted with the matter about the complete of questions with which they were dealing. Perhaps this could be explained best by means of an example. If perhaps because of the lack of material, only a part of the Sanisil was still available, then I turned to a number of persons acquainted with the matter and I described the situation to them. I requested them to inform me from the medical point of view what drugs were by all means necessary, which ones were desirable and which ones were not necessary and then the answers which I received were the basis for my negotiations with the pharmaceutical industries, however, it was not so that these clinical requests always had to be filled and complied with. It happened frequently that for example a drug, which we had described as dispensable, that this drug could be produced very easily, because it had accumulated as a by-product of some other product.
In such a case, the clinical interests had to stay behind the interests of production. Of course, this was a compromise, but nothing else could be done in time of war. A similar problem existed with regard to x-ray equipment, surgical instruments, etc.
Q. But your contribution was always from the medical side?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, there was a period of time when, in addition to what you have said, you tried to get a picture of the specialized, the practical research, which was being carried on; when was that and what was the cause of this?
A. That was in the middle of the summer of 1944. At the time the Ministry for Armament and War Production wanted to discontinue the entire scientific research, because they wanted to save personnel and material. I considered this unjustified and at least I tried to prevent this in the most important fields and therefore I turned to the Medical Inspector of the branches of the Wehrmacht, to the Reich Research Council and also to the Reich Office for the Extension of Economy. I requested these agencies to inform me of what research was still being carried out.
Q. Then you went to all agencies, which to your knowledge had research institutions, etc? I mean also the universities belong there too?
A. Self-evident, including, the universities. If in time of war same really wanted to engage seriously in research, then he, not for the reason of scientific research itself, but really for pressing war requirements, he had to receive a research assignment in order to obtain the necessary research material. May I perhaps explain here why a research assignment was always necessary?
Q. Speak a little slower, please.
A. Actually now if a scientist occupied himself with some problem or other, he get together with his students on the matter in his clinic or institute. In time or war, he had to have a certain paper. In Germany, whn he was told by some agency, the Reich Research Council or the Research Office for the Extension of Economy or some ministral agency, that he was occupying himself with this or that special field of researched.
The progress of such a research assignment was that if he wanted to obtain some apparatus or other equipment or test tubes, he went there with his research assignment. For example to obtain test tubes, he had to receive a directive from the competent economic agency so that he was able to obtain this equipment. Furthermore, if one of the agencies who could conscript personnel in Germany and that was not only the Wehrmacht, but that also was the police and some other agencies, desired to conscript personnel, he could say that he had the research assignment and further that the people could not be conscripted as these people were needed because they had one, two or three research assignments to carry out. That is why these research assignments were requested in time of war.
Q. And you knew the agencies which could issue such research assignments?
A. Well, today I must say that I did not know all of them.
Q. But at that time you went to such agencies?
A. Yes.
Q. And your own office was not one of such agencies?
A. No, we were unable to do that.
Q. Did you approach these offices in writing?
A. Yes.
Q. How did such a letter at that time read?
A. I cannot remember the exact wording.
Q. Did you issue an order?
A. No.
Q. Did you get answers?
A. Yes, of course, answers arrived.
Q. What did they write?
A. We were informed - it would be best for me to give an example of how these answers were given. I shall give you an example as it is contained in a document in the files here. It was called Research Assignment of suchind-such a number, Schemilski, Innsbruck, Galvanic Narcosis. That is an example which is contained in the documents. Then a certain priority; sometimes also the evaluation of the assignment. Well, perhaps it was states he received 1,000 or 4,000 marks for expenses incurred.
Q. You say that the priority, the degree of urgency, was also indicated? Would you please explain briefly what that is?
A. The word "Dringlichkeitsstufe" (priority) must be given two meanings. At one time it was a technical term on the war economic field, which stated that the person in question, as I have already stated, was given material assistance. This priority was determined by the war economic agency by Dr. Grau, but I did not have anything to do with that. However, the were "Dringlichkeitsstufe" (priority) ...
Q. May I interrupt you a moment? You said very precisely, "Indic tions of the priority."
Then it said something there - Priority One, Two, Three, Four. The numbers were given; I know that. All I want to find out if that the assignments themselves issued by the various institutions in themselves hid a different value, a different urgency. If I am correctly inform this was indicated by a number, and if you say here that the priority was indicated then you mean this number, is that right?
A. Yes, that is correct, because this formerly economic number was also given a certain number.
Q. I was of the opinion that this number, this priority number, was assigned by the agency which gave the assignment, but from what you have just said, I am beginning to doubt. It seems that the assignment was given by an institution and that this priority, this preference, was given by another agency.
A. The priority was determined by the war economic agency. If other agencies were also able to determine such a priority, that I do not know. However, I have only seen these priority ratings but it is also possible the the Reich Office for the Extension of the Economy was able to do that, but I am not exactly informed on the subject.
Q. What did you do with the information about research assignments which you received from the various institutions?
A. The answers which I received were compiled into a research card index and then one of my collaborators, Dr. Christnesen, took care of it. This card index was to help me to give information to questions which might arise and, furthermore, I wanted to be able to give documentary evidence to the armament industry that I would is able under certain circumstances to recognize if any dual work was being done at two different places.
Q. Was it so that from this time on everyone doing research work in Germany first had to inquire of you or report to you?
A. No, nobody had to consult us and nobody had to submit any reports to us. Practically, I have only received reports about the results of research. I received them semi-annually from the Reich Research Council cause it issued a printed booklet which contained short reports - about so long reports - and this booklet did not only contain information about medicine but also about the other fields of physics and technique and whatever existed, and I have never turned for such requests to the individual scientists because I would have considered this an unproductive extension of what we used to call in a derogatory manner "paper warfare".
Q. Then you did not issue any such order to these agencies?
A. No.
Q. On the basis of this knowledge did you interfere in any research. For example, did you stop any research assignment?
A. No, I did not do that. I did not have any authority to do that. To the agencies which were interested I gave the information that the Ministry for Armament wanted to intervene, and we discussed what fields we would classify as necessary or which were urgent in some way. And in this sense I had something to do with the priority or the urgency. It was so that we classified a dozen fields or there may have been three or four more which, in spite of the situation, we still considered necessary for research. And these one dozen subjects I submitted to the Ministry for Armament and also the other agencies which were interested.
Q. This subject is somewhat difficult. You have stated that for judging an assignment from the joint of view of war economy it was decisive to determine the priority which was set by a number?
A. Yes.
Q. A number was placed on the assignment?
A. Yes.
Q. You have said that only other agencies could issue this priority?
A. Yes.
Q. And if you say now that you advocated - that you supported an assignment because of its urgency, then, if I understand you correctly, this was only done by exerting influence on the competent agencies?
A. Yes, that is the correct way to express it. And perhaps another example would be appropriate. In this list of the 12, 14, or 15 urgent fields it was not explicitly stated that the research of Mr. Mueller on some subject was urgent and several hundreds of assignments may have been given in this field.
What I described as urgent was not limited to an assignment for one person which was laid down on paper but only to a larger field which merit with science.
Q. I believe I have understood you how. This was a natter of general influence which you exercised as a scientist. You have just said that certain fields were more important than others but the decisions as to which individual assignment was important was made by others?
A. Yes, that is right.
Q. This priority number was issued by other agencies?
A. Yes, that is right.
Q. And, the person working in a certain field, he needed this priority number in order to accomplish anything?
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. Do you remember whether Lost experiments were ever mentioned?
A. I cannot answer this question clearly under oath here with yes or no but since during the war we always had to count on the use of chemical warfare agents my belief is that this field was listed under perhaps a dozen subjects.
Q. But if I understand you correctly, this was done in the same form as you have just said, as a general subject?
A. Only as a general subject.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary General will note for the record the absence of defendant Oberheuser, excused since the afternoon recess on account of her illness. The Tribunal will now recess until 9:30 tomorrow morning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 21 February 1947 at 0930 hours.)
Official transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America, against Karl Brandt, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 21 February 1947, 0930, Justice Beals presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Court Room will please find their seats.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal 1.
Military Tribunal 1 is now in session. God save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Marshal, will you ascertain that the defendants are all present in court.
THE MARSHAL: May it please your Honors, all defendants are present in the court.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary-General will note for the record the presence of all the defendants in court. Counsel may proceed.
PAUL ROSTOCK -- (Resumed) DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
DR. PRIBILIA: (Counsel for the Defendant Rostock): May it please the Tribunal, first of all I would like to try to answer the question of the Tribunal which refers to Document 3, Exhibit 3. It is this decree ordering secrecy which wont to every military and also the civilian agency which occupied themselves with classified material during the war. This decree was already presented before the International Military Tribunal but as far as I could determine nobody knew the date of it oven at that time. Now, by accident, testimony was presented yesterday in the Milch trial by the witness General Felmy. This gentleman has testified under oath that the decree was dated the 12th January 1940. Now, I do not know exactly what my attitude should be, whether that information is sufficient or if the Tribunal desires that I should submit an excerpt of the record, or if the Tribunal want to take judicial notice of this testimony.
THE PRESIDENT: Has the prosecution any objection to stipulating that the evidence in tho trial before Tribunal No. 2 referred to by counsel is correct or approximately correct?
MR. MC HANEY: If the Tribunal please, of course I cannot stipulate that the information is correct, I just don't have any idea when the decree was issued. I will, of course, stipulate that Dr. Pribilla has given us a correct paraphrasing of the testimony in Military Tribunal 2.
THE PRESIDENT: The record will show the remarks of Counsel for the prosecution. Counsel may proceed.
BY DR. PRIBIILA:
Q Yesterday you had answered the questions which I asked you so far, that you had explained in what manner you come about to touch on the special research problems in Germany and that you began to start a card index file on the subject. You had further stated that this card index file was to serve the purpose of defending research against all intervention. You had further stated in that form you received the notification, and that they were only in the form of a short notice of the agency issuing the assignments of the scientist, not perhaps the priority of number under which those assignments were issued. I am not asking you if turns preliminary work had any effect whatsoever. Did such an interference or an intervention take place, that is an intervention of the part of the armament industry or any other state agency? Did they intervene in the medical research activity?
A No, such an intervention did not take place. The development of the war also went over this decree by the Ministry for Armament. You will have to imagine the situation as it existed in Germany in 1944--all communications were being hampered and in every way things had to be improvised, quite a few decrees were never excuted at that time, there just remained empty words on paper.
Q In spite of this did you continue and maintain tho card index file once you had started it?
A Yes, we had agreed with tho other agencies that they were to inform me about research assignments which had been newly issued.
Q Did happen because you gave a corresponding order or directive?
A No, that was what I would like to call a gentleman's agreement.
Q Well, you said although this activity was never carried out you continued and collected the research subjects. I think that you did this as a preventitive measure, so to speak?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q The other agencies who issued research assignments, did they have to obtain your concent if they wanted to issue another research assignment after the time you had already started your card index?
A No, they did not have to consult me at all. Only when such a research assignment had already been issued, then I was informed of that fact. The research counsel did this in approximately three months intervals from a list which contained all the statements which I have mentioned here yesterday. And, we had an agreement with the Chief of the Medical Service of the Luftwaffe that I world receive a copy of all assignments when issued. I think General Wuerfler has also testified to that fact yesterday or the day before yesterday.
Q Do I understand you correctly that these reports went to you after with assignment had been issued?
A Yes, I was informed subsequently.
Q Professor, have you ever received any notification from which you could deduct that experiments were carried out on human beings?
A No, I have never received any such notification. And, now if I had all my files available here and the card file index, which I have already mentioned, which was confiscated at Liebensteim by an American unit, and my defense counsel has already asked that they be furnished to me several weeks ago; then I could also submit documentary evidence.
Q On 25 August 1944, a now decree was issued. It appointed the defend, Brandt Reich Commissioner. This document is document NO-082, that is Prosecution's Exhibit 7. This decree also mentions for the first time the right to issue instructions. Did this decree change anything in your previous activities.
A No, no change occurred, I have already explained yesterday that I do not think much of instructions in the field of research.
And, when the organization began to disintegrate already in 1944, it had already progressed so far that we could not work according to the plan any more.
Q Were the medical and scientific societies subordinated to you?
A No, the medical societies were subordinated to the ministry of Inter Furthermore, during the last few years of the war these societies were having their winter sleep, so to speak. They had not been placed in that position through their own free-will, but through a decree which was issued by the Propaganda Ministry which prohibited any meetings or conferences as far as they were not only of a purely local nature. I know that on the Allied side many meetings and conferences were being held. They were also held on an international basis, and with reference to that fact, I have tried on several occasions to cause the Ministry for Propaganda to withdraw the decree which it had previously issued. However, I was not successful in doing this. However, if by medical societies, for example, you mean the Ahnen Society, and its contents with the SS, then I must say that I heard of this society for the first time here in Numberg.
Q Do you know anything at all about research assignments which were carried out within the framework of the SS organization?
A On the occasion of the questions which I have mentioned yesterday, the Reich Physician and SS informed me of three or four research assignments which I cannot remember in detail any more. In any case, I had the impression at that time that no remarkable research was being carried out on the part of the SS. However, I must say today that Grawitz, without any doubt, tried to prevent me from gaining any insight into his field and he also succeeded in doing this.
Q Now, you spoke of the answer of the SS with regard to year question about the research subjects?
A Yes.
Q Now, can you give us another one of the subjects which was mentioned by the SS at that time?
A I can remember the one subject, if I remember correctly, about the history of homosexuality.
However, it may also be the method of treatment, I cannot remember that exactly any more today.
Q However, do I understand you to the effect that there was nothing amongst these subjects that seemed to be very important to you at that time.
A No, it did not seem to be very important to me.
Q Did you find out anything about the fact that the research work was carried out by the SS in the various concentration camps?
A No, I have not found out anything about it.
Q Did you find cut anything about the experiments on human beings on the part of the SS?
A I never found out anything about that either.
Q At the time, did you again ask the SS, when in answer to your inquiry, you were given these very unimportant subjects?
A No, I have not made any additional inquiries.
Q Why did you fail to do so?
A There was no special reason for me to do it, and furthermore I had been told by Brandt that the time when the decrees were issued, which we have so frequently mentioned here, through the General Commissioner, that Hitler he told him at the time, in the presence of Himmler, that he had told him quite clearly that the SS--that he was not concerned with the SS, and that these decrees did not refer to the field competence of the SS.
Q Did you, on a scientific basis, have any connections and contacts with the Institutes of the SS?
A No.
Q Before 1943 did you have any contacts with the Reich Research Counsel
A No.
Q Do you know what contacts Brandt had with the Reich Research Counsel
A I know that on the occasion of the reorganization of this Committed I believe that this was in the year 1942, Brandt had been called into the Presidial Counsel of the Reich Research Counsel.
Q At the end of 1943 when you began your work, did you at that time establish contact to the Reich Research Counsel?
A For every member of the Presidial Counsel, a deputy had to be appoin ed, and since this position was not occupied on the staff of Brandt, no appoin ed me as his deputy early in 1944.
Q Were you paid as a result of this appointment?
A No.
Q Did the Presidial Counsel hold any meetings or conferences, and did you attend these conferences and represent Brandt there?
A I did not know anything about such a conference, then, in any case, I have not attended such a meeting, and furthermore, I never receiver any invitation to attend one.
Q Do you know anything about a service regulation, about this Reich Research Counsel?
A I never saw any such service regulation.
Q For everything that was discussed in the Reich Research Counsel or which you received in the form of reports, was there any specific secrecy imposed?
A The Reich Research Counsel, just like any other thing in German-in order to use a slang expression, there was a certain craziness far secrecy. Even the most unimportant matters were classified as secret, and perhaps I could describe to you an incident which I know from my activity as Dean of the Medical Faculty in Berlin. It may have been in the year of 1942 or 1943 and those questionnaires were sent to all the university teachers by the Reich Research Counsel and we all had to fill in every extensive card indexes and these cards contained personnel statements, as this also was usually published in the literature and scientific indexes, just as it is something in the nature of the English "Who's Who", and furthermore had to be listed in it the scientific publications which had already been printed, and also a of these things could be found the list of Pathologists, surgery, etc. and everybody in Germany was able to buy such books in any book store; although these index cards contained nothing but these statements they were classified as top secret.
Q Where did you obtain knowledge of the research and the other activities the Reich Research Counsel. Did you receive any reports?
AApproximately every six months the Reich Research Counsel issued a printed booklet which contained short reports about the research work which had been concluded and which had been financed by the Reich Research Counsel. These booklets did not only contain reports from the field of medicine, that actually occupied a very small part of the booklet, but it also dealt with all other fields, with technical matters, physics, and agricultural cultivation problems and so on. All these things were contained in the booklet, and these reports also were classified as top secret.
Q. Could you see from these reports that anywhere in Germany experiments had been carried out on human beings?
A. No never.
Q. Besides these printed reports, did you yourself receive any special reports?
A. No, I never received such reports.
Q. Did the members of this presidial council have any authority to issue instructions, or did they have to supervise the business management of the Reich Research Council?
A. No. The special branch heads in the Reich Research Council were subordinated directly to Goering.
Q. Where did you not that information?
A. I was told by the first acting president in the Reich Research Council Herr Menzel and he told me that quite clearly. Dr. Blome confirmed tors fact to me here also.
Q. Who was in charge of the management of the Reich Research Council? For example, who issued the research assignments?
A. The research assignments were issued by the specialist branch head or the plenipotentiaries or the commissioners for special projects; and in the field of medicine there were the scientists, who dealt with research, of epidemics and cancer.
Q. Where did you obtain this knowledge?
A. I also know that from President Menzel.
Q. As it was previously mentioned, Fr. Menzel was the manager in the Reich Research Council?
A. Menzel was the deputy president, if I remember correctly. He was acting president council.
Q. What was the position of the presidial council?
A. I assumed that the presidial council was a representative matter. However, I cannot tell you that exactly because I have never actually partici pated in this capacity. Perhaps it was a fictional organization like the Prussian State Council of which I read in the press last year, where it was stated that they had never held any meeting.
Q. The prosecution has presented a document here which contains the correspondence between the acting manager of the Reich Research Council Menzel on one hand and the Reich physician SS on the other hand. This is Document 002-PS, Prosecution Exhibit 40. From this correspondence, which to place between the acting manager of the Reich Research Council Mr. Grawitz * the Reich physician SS, the prosecution has reached the conclusion that you had been informed about the fact that experiments on human beings had been mentioned in this letter. What can you say in this connection?
A. I can say that I saw this correspondence for the first time here when it was presented by the prosecution and then that it originated in the year 1942 or 1943. At that time I didn't have anything whatsoever to be with the Reich Research Council. It was my experience in the year 1944. I should say that similar correspondence never has been presented to me.
Q. Did you yourself issue any research assignments to the Reich Research Council, or did you order that research assignments?
A. If the words "initialed" and "ordered" are used and if they are taken as synonymous with the word "requested", then yes.
I have already mentioned that I wanted to further research in the field of tissue culture; and for that reason I approached the medical branch head in the Reich Research Council with the request that research assignments be issue to five or six men -- and including women as well -- and that they be given research assignments in this field so that the people who had preciously occupied themselves with the field could again resume their work.
For example. I also further suggested that two other experienced pathologists should write the history or the German Society for Pathology. Howe in all these cases I did not act on behalf of the Reich Research Council, but in my capacity as a chief of an agency with the General Commissioner. approached another agency with a request of the Reich Research Council for suggestion.
Q. Was it known that the Reich Research Council had to comply with this request or could it have refused the request?
A. It did not need to comply with it; it could also refuse.
Q. That was a suggestion?
A. Yes, that was only a suggestion.
Q. The witness Prof. Gutzeit has testified before this Tribunal that you had made written inquiries to him with regard to medicine and also with regard to a certain tissue treatment against typhus, consisting of the use of baths. Now, the witness was unable to remember of a certainty if you had made these inquiries from your Office for Science and Research or if you had made these inquiries to him on behalf of the Reich Research Council. Howe the witness has admitted that he was not exactly informed about your position in the various agencies. Can you give us an explanation on that subject?
A. Yes, I can do that. Without any doubt Dr. Gutzeit has mixed up the two agencies, namely the Office for Science and Research, and the Reich Research Council. I can remember these inquiries very well; and I address them to Gutzeit from my agency which the Reich Commissioners on one occasion according to the previously mentioned action for the reduction of the production of medicine. The other occasion was the suggestion which had been addressed to me from some there agency about the treatment of typhus, using some measure like baths which were to be increased in heat.
Q. Then, if I understand you correctly, that was an inquiry which you had directed to him as a scientist?
A. Yes.
Q. The prosecution has presented here the record of an interrogation Karl Brandt. It is Document NO-1730, that is, Prosecution Exhibit 441. There the words were used that you had taken up your assignment in camp with the Reich Research Council; and the prosecution has concluded from them that you had some official influence on the Reich Research Council. Can give us any explanation on that subject?
A. As I have already state, we wanted to have this discussion about dectronic microscopy and penicillin. Technical difficulties prevailed which were caused by the decree of the Propaganda Ministry which I have just mentioned. This decree prohibited the holding of any meetings. For this reason I turner to Mr. Menzel in his capacity as Reich Research Council and asked his advice. Mr. Menzel advised me that we should not call any meetings or conferences but that we should have an official discussion. An official discussion had not been prohibited in this decree by the Ministry for Propaganda; and that is exactly what we did. Furthermore, I have also stated that I wanted to keep the German scientists informed about the new discoveries abroad; and in order to do this I had to approach the people that were to obtain the foreign literature. In his matter I also asked Menzel's aid in the Reich Research Council. It was also in this case that my agency I had to approach another agency in the Reich Research Council with this request; and I did not do anything nor did I initiate any measures on half of the Reich Research Council.