He told me, Everything that has happened to you is a military secret. You are not to discuss it with anybody. If you fail to do so, you know what the consequences will be for you. You are 1470 a intelligent enough to know that.
Of course, I fully realized that I had to keep quiet about that.
"On one occasion I had discussed these experiences with one of my comrades. One of the nurses found out about this and he came to see me and he asked me if I was already tired of living because I was talking about such matters. But, in the way these experiments were conducted, I do not need to add anything to it.
Q. How long was it before you recovered from the effects of these freezing experiments?
A. It took a long time. I also have had several -- I have had a rather weak heart and I have also had severe headaches, and I also get cramps in my foot very often.
Q. Do you still suffer from the effects of this experiment?
A. I still have a weak heart. For example, I am unable to walk very quickly now, and I also have to sweat very much. Exactly these are the results, but in many cases I have had these afflictions ever since.
Q. Were you in good physical condition before you were subject to the malaria and freezing experiments.
A. Since the time of this starvation I weighed 57 kilograms in Dachau, When I came to the camp I weighed about one hundred kilograms. I lost about one-half of my weight. In the beginning, I was weighed, and I was inbed for about a week. And then my weight went down to 47 kilo.
Q. How much do you weigh now?
A. I cannot tell you exactly. I have not weighed myself lately, but I think at this time I weighed fifty-five kilograms.
Q. Do you **** *** you were rewarmed in these freezing experiments?
A. I was warmed with these lamps, but I heard later that people were rewarmed by women.
Q. Do you know approximately how many inmates were subjected to the freezing experiments?
A. I cannot tell you anything about this because it was kept so secret, and because I was in there quite individually and I was quite single During this experiment.
"Q. Do you know whether anyone died as a result of this experiment?
"A. I cannot give you any information about that either. I have not seen anybody. But it was said in camp that quite a number of people died there during this experiment.
"Q. Do you know anything about the low-pressure experiments that were carried oat in Dachau?
"A. Only that I heard that such experiments were conducted out there with hermetically-sealed apparatus.
"Q. You have no personal Knowledge about these things?
"A. No. Nobody was admitted there. It was also kept very secret.
"Q. Now what about the dry freezing experiments?
"A. Also these experiments, however, during this time occurred out there; and it was also said that people were left lying, there in the frost and to freeze, but as I have already said, I have not seen it, but I have heard of it. But all of that is supposed to have done in the same Aviation Experimental Station."
Your Honors, please, that concludes that part of the testi mony which we would like to submit. The other matters are not relevant. They have to do with facts on other issues, and that concludes the documents which we nave available at this time. We may have two witnesses later this afternoon; I am not sure. I haven't talked to them yet. They were supposed to arrive at one-thirty. They were not here when I came over to court, and although it will be taking them out of order, I thought, perhaps, it might save the Court's time in we did put them on now. As I say, I don't know that they are here. They are coming from some distance, and I haven't had an opportunity to find out since coming to court.
***1472***
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the members of the Tribunal will be a vailable for the rest of the afternoon, and the Tribunal will reconvene if your witnesses do become available.
If you will let us know, we will immediately reconvene.
1472 a The witness for the Defense, Vorwald, is expected sometime today, and it is hoped he will be available to testify in the morning.
Do you have some further documents, Dr. Bergold?
DR. BERGOLD: Not at the present moment.
THE PRESIDENT: Are there some more in the process of translation?
DR. BERGOLD: They are still being translated. There are some supplements. They will not take very long to read, ten or fifteen minutes, perhaps.
I have had then in German for some time but the English translation hasn't reached me yet.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Denney, did you find out anything about the English translation of these documents?
MR. DENNEY: No, sir. I didn't inquire about those.
THE PRESIDENT: I believe you said you were going to do that.
MR. DENNEY: Well, if I did, Your Honor, I forgot. I will - the only thing I have asked about were Raeder, Neurath, Speer and this ...
THE PRESIDENT: Well, will you inquire about the English translations of the documents that Dr. Bergold refers to?
MR. DENNEY: Yes, I will, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: So that they can be introduced possibly tomorrow?
MR. DENNEY: Yes, Your Honor, I shall.
THE PRESIDENT: The Court will not recess for the day, but it is simply pro tem, and we will reconvene any time you advise us that you are ready with the other witnesses. If that doesn't happen before five o'clock, we will assume that it won't happen thereafter.
MR. DENNEY: Very well, Your Honor.
DR. BERGOLD: I have a request to make, Your Honors. May I ask to give the defendant a copy of the record of the Central Planning Board meeting of 16 February? That is in connection with the big chart which was handed in.
THE PRESIDENT: In connection with what?
DR. BERGOLD: With the trial of the 4.5 million workers.
THE PRESIDENT: You mean ...
DR. BERGOLD: That chart contained pencil notes by the defendant. It is a photostatic copy, a great big document with pencilled notes by the defendant.
MR. DENNEY: Are you referring to the document that we brought the original of down?
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, that is the document.
MR. DENNEY: I don't know what he wanted. I was thinking of a wall chart.
I don't have any wall chart or anything like that.
DR. BERGOLD: No. No. No. No. It is a list of workers. It is a list of workers and the defendant made personal pencil notes on them.
MR. DENNEY: Where Milch made notes in red pencil on them?
DR. BERGOLD: Yes. Yes.
MR. DENNEY: Well, we will be very glad to do anything that you want with it. What do you want, Doctor? Do you want me to get it for you?
DR. BERGOLD: No. I want to submit the fifty-third meeting of the Central Planning Beard so that he can compare his notes with the record of the meeting of the Central Planning Beard.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, you want the original exhibit?
DR. BERGOLD: No. No. It is a photostatic copy, sir.
JUDGE MUSSMANO: Mr. Denney, does he refer to that chart which you introduced in the very early stages of your presentation of the slave labor case? The photostatic copy of the chart?
MR. DENNEY: Yes.
JUDGE MUSSMANO: All he desires is that you procure such a copy and let him have it.
MR. DENNEY: Well, we gave him a copy of it. The trouble with the photostatic part is that the defendant's notes are in red pencil and red pencil doesn't photostat, if Your Honor please.
DR. BERGOLD: This refers to the fifty-third meeting of the Central Planning Board, and that fifty-third meeting of the Central Planning Board, I have the stenographic report, and the defendant would like to read that record cf the fifty-third meeting in order to prepare his own interrogation, because on the basis of that conference he can explain the figures off that list.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you want the English translation?
MR. DENNEY: No. No. No. No. He has the German right here.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes.
MR. DENNEY: All he has to do is give it to him.
DR. BERGOLD: But I must have the Court's permission to give this document to the defendant Milch.
Lt. Garrett says I can't do it otherwise.
MR. DENNEY: Certainly we have no objection to showing the defendant anything.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, regardless of what Lt. Garrett says, show the defendant anything that you have. Is that what you want?
DR. BERGOLD: Yes. Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Go ahead. Before I am subjected to another deep sea experiment, is there anything further?
MR. DENNEY: If Your Honors please, we have nothing further at this time.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, we will retire to dry land and await your summoning
THE MARSHAL: This Tribunal is in recess until such time as they reconvene today.
(A recess was taken.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America, against Erhard Milch, defendant, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 5 March 1947, 1100, Justice Tems, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats. The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal 2.
Military Tribunal is now in session. God save the United States of America and his honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the courtroom.
DR. BERGOLD: May it please this Tribunal, first of all I would like to introduce my supplements to my Document Book Number 1.
As the first supplement I should like to introduce Exhibit Number 47. This is an excerpt from the Proclamation Number 2 of the Allied Control Council. This in itself is a legal clause which has been released by the Control Council for the German people, and therefore I would appreciate it if judicial notice be taken of it. I shall read that proclamation. This is Section VI, Paragraph 19, letter a.
"The German authorities will carry out, for the benefit of a he Unit id Nations, such measures of restitution, reinstatement, restoration, reparation, reconstruction, relief and rehabilitation as the Allied Representatives may prescribe. For these purposes the German authorities will effect or recure the surrender of transfer of such property, assets, rights, titles and interests, effect such deliveries and carry out such repair, building and construction work, whether in Germany or elsewhere, and will provide such transport, plant, equipment and materials of all kind, labor, personnel and specialists and other services, for use in Germany or elsewhere, as the Allied Representatives may direct."
What can be seen from this decree I will show in my final plea. I shall prove that although the Hague Convention was also decreed here, that labor, on orders of the Allies, was put or had to be put at the disposal of the Allies outside of Germany by the Germans. I would like to introduce now Exhibit 48. This is an excerpt from the speech of Hermann Goering on 1 February 1943, at the Aviation Ministry speaking to the working class in Germany.
"Reich edition of the 'Frankfurter Zeitung' of 3 February 1943, 87th year, No. 61 to 62, page number 4". I shall now read from the speech of the Reich Marshal.
"And now, my comrades, whether Field Marshal or raw recruit, I wish you all to weigh for a moment in your mind in what situation our Fuehrer was when, with the political instinct of a genius, he clearly recognized this deadly peril. Certainly, there were some weak-kneed people who said: the Union of Soviet Republics has three, four, five times as many armored vehicles, ten times as many airplanes as we have. The Union of Soviet Republics has just for the first time permitted German engineers to visit her arms factories. They are the biggest we can imagine. Therefore for Heaven's sake, do not touch her, do not irritate her. Such is always the attitude of cowards and it is not for nothing that the ostrich is called the Bird of Cowardice. And thus there were also at that time people in Germany who imitated the ostrich. That this burying-the-head-in-the-sand would me an the destruction of Germany, they did not want to see or hear."
The examination of the defendant will show that this passage here was addressed at the defendant, let us say. He was called a weakling.
I shall now proceed to Exhibit Number 49. This is an excerpt from the decision of the people's Commissars Court of the USSR of 1-7-41, Number 1798 to 80406. This decree has already been introduced before the International Military Tribunal by the Russian delegation itself. It reads as follows: "Decree about Prisoners of War. IV. Regulations about Work by Prisoners of War." I shall read now Paragraph 20.
"Prisoners of war of non-commissioned rank and private soldiers may be used for work in industry and agriculture in USSR inside and outside the Camp, in accordance with the special regulations which have been worked out by the "... we have a few abbreviations here, and we probably don't know what they mean. They probably come from the chief of the prisoners of war and they have been worked out by him, "Officers and prisoners of equal rank may only be used for work with this own consent."
Now I shall read Paragraph 25. "It is forbidden to utilize the manpower of the prisoners of war a) in the zone of hostilities, b) for personal needs of the administrative bodies, and for personal needs of other prisoners of war (as orderlies)."
This, according to my opinion, shows that the Soviet Union permitted PW labor to the full extent, with one single restriction; namely that at the front. In other words, at the front and for personal use of the administration the prisoners could not be used. Apart from that in the Soviet Union in this war, after this regulation, there was no restriction whatso ever to employ the labor of PW's.
I shall read as Milch Exhibit Number 50, excerpts from the exhibit USA 57 which was introduced by the prosecution in IMT, Document Number 1760-PS, which is the affidavit of Mr. George S. Messersmith.
I shall read from Page 1:
"Gerorg S. Messersmith, being first duly sworn, deposes and says:
"Immediately after the access to power of the National Socialist Party in the beginning of 1933, all sorts of steps of an arbitrary character were taken by the new Government and by its various agencies and dependencies which affected the rights of American citizens and property and owing to my official position as Consul General my duty was primarily to protect American Citizens and their property."
The defendant, when he is a witness, will give further details to that effect.
Then I should like to read further, Number 2: "General Milch was not a Nazi before the Party came into power in 1933. He had been head of the Deutsche Luft Hansa, the principal German air-transportation company, which had lines all over Germany and to various parts of Europe and even the Far East. He was an extraordinarily capable man; and Goering brought him in as his principal assistant in the Air Ministry and raised him to the rank of General in order to carry through his determination to build up the German Air Force as rapidly as possible."
Then another page: "I recall specifically that General Milch was one of those who spoke frankly that these outrages in Austria were being directed by the Nazi Party, and expressed his concern with respect thereto and his disagreement with his definite policy of the Party."
Then as the last exhibit, or as the last document, I should like to introduce as affidavit of the witness Richter. May it please your Honors, this man has already been examined here in this Court. However I did not know that he could make this statement; and therefore he was not asked about it. I have here an affidavit. I have learned that there was a similar case in Tribunal Number I where Tribunal Number I had decided that in spite of the examination of the witness an affidavit could still be brought in afterwards. On the assumption that such a ruling of the Tribunal Number I also applies to you, I should like to introduce this affidavit now; and I'll appreciate it if you could permit it.
MR. DENNEY: If your Honors please, so far as the contents of the affidavit are concerned, I have no objection to their being admitted.
However, in spite of the ruling of Tribunal Number I, I do think that this Tribunal and other tribunals should proceed with caution in allowing witnesses who come here to testify after having been cross examined, then to make and submit affidavits because, as your Honors certainly are aware, of a witness can come to the stand, fail to testify on a given subject, and not be cross examined on that subject for any one of a number of reasons and then be allowed to make an affidavit for the counsel who has called him as his witness, it seems to me that we are going a little bit far.
As I say, in this case I have no objection. I'll concede that Milch did this; and I see no reason to introduce the affidavit. I'll be very glad to make a concession on the record that Richter would say, if he were called, that Milch asked Goering not to appoint him, Milch, as Under Secretary of State or as State Secretary in the Air Ministry in 1933; and I also will concede that Richter, if recalled by Dr. Bergold, would testify that Milch sent in a resignation in 1937.
With these concessions, I submit that the affidavit is not necessary and hence inadmissible.
THE PRESIDENT: In view of the concession made on the record by Mr. Denney, the admission of this exhibit seems to be unnecessary. It is not to be considered that the admission, even without objection, of this testimony shall be a precedent for any future offers. In other words, this is not apolicy-making ruling in this Tribunal.
DR. BERGOLD: May it please your Honors, then I am through with the introduction of my exhibits; and Mr. Denney may have my place now.
MR. DENNEY: If it please your Honors, may the Marshal bring in the witness Roland Ferrier.
THE RESIDENT: The Marshal will bring the witness to the Courtroom.
ROLAND FERRIER, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
THE PRESIDENT: Witness, you swear to speak without hate or fear; to say the truth, all the truth, and only the truth? Raise your hand and say, "I swear it."
THE WITNESS: I swear.
THE PRESIDENT: You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DENNEY:
Q What is your name?
A Roland Ferrier.
Q That is spelled F-e-r-r-i-e-r?
A Yes.
Q When were you born?
A The 5th of July 1922.
Q Where did you go to school?
AAt Montrauban.
Q Spelled M-o-n-t-r-a-u-b-a-n?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q When did you finish your schooling?
A I was not yet twenty years old when I finished school, about nineteen and a couple of months.
Q So it was sometime in 1941?
A Yes, sir.
Q What did you do then?
AAt that time I passed a contest and entered the banks.
Q What bank was that?
A 20 Credit Lyonnais.
Q That's spelled C-r-e-d-i-t L-y-o-n-n-a-i-s?
A Yes, that's correct.
Q. How long did you work there?
A. Six months.
Q. And then what did you do?
A. I was then mobilized to work at the Youths Organization, a short term, which was an organization which was a Youths workshop, which replaced the Army mobilization during the period of German occupation in France.
Q. How long did you remain there?
A. I stayed there from the 1st of July 1942 up to the 1st of March 1943.
Q. And then what did you do?
A. At that time I was released from the Youths Camp, I must add, where we took a few days longer than usual when we were retained, and we never knew why.
Q. What did you do when you left the Youths Camp?
A. At that time I was released, I went home and I started to work again, add then it was about the 8th or 9th of March, I figure it was about the 9th of March, and I received a composition which was brought to my place by the police according to which I had to come somewhere for a visit.
Q. And this work where you were then was done at the bank?
A. Yes, I started to work again at the bank.
Q. What did you do at the bank?
A. I was at that time under-chief---assistant chief of the Control Services of the Bank.
Q. You did not make airplanes in your bank, did you?
A. No, never.
Q. You went to have this visit as a result of this summons which you had received?
A. Yes, I did, because we had no precision whatsoever as to what kind of a visit that was to be.
Q. What happened when you went for this examination?
A. At that time when we came to the barracks, we were when we came to make the visit brought into some barracks, and nobody told us anything about the visit, and we were kept there under the supervision of French police, or else of some corps of French policemen, or militia, but it was not the French militia, not really called as militia, but some police that had been created as part of the Vichy Regime.
Q. Then what happened to you?
A. At that time our parents were informed and they came along to bring us some clothing and food in order to enable us to take a train which was part of the transport to take us to some destination, and we had to leave during the evening.
Q. How long were you on this train?
A. We were then about five and one-half days on this train until we reached our destination. We stopped at Paris for one day in order to change trains, but on this occasion we were always under the control and the constant watch of the SS.
Q. Then did your train go to the east?
A. Yes, we passed then by Landau, Stuttgart, Nurnberg, Munich, Salzburg, and Vienna.
Q. Were you guarded on that train?
A. We were always guarded by -- while we were on the train by what we called Gendarmes, who were the German policemen. They were always armed.
Q. How did you eat on that trip?
A. We received at Landau one-hundred grams of bread, and a piece of wurst, which is a German kind of sausage, and it was at that time I first saw this kind of sausage, and we also received one sandwich for two of us at Nurnberg.
Q. And that is all you received to eat?
A. That is all we received to eat during the trip, but, of course, we had some food which we had brought along to keep us in the first week.
Q. You mean the food your family had given you?
A. Yes, of course.
Q How many people were in this train with you?
AAbout twelve-hundred to twelve-hundred and fifty.
Q And in what kind of car did you ride?
A The old French cars.
Q Were there any sleeping cars?
A No.
Q Any porters?
A No, not during the first transport, anyhow.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: How many cars were in that train, Mr. Denney?
MR. DENNEY: Sir?
JUDGE MUSMANNO: How many cars were in that train?
BY MR. DENNEY:
Q How many cars were in that train?
A I never counted them. I never saw this kind of a thing during the trip.
Q How many people were in the car in which you were?
A I could not say how many persons were actually in the car in which I travelled, but I can say that in our compartment which was a compartment for eight persons normally, we were eleven, and we had to put our suitcases outside in the corridor, and I know that people were standing in these corridors, too.
Q Where did you leave the train?
A This train went as far as Strassow. Excuse me, I'll have to rectify that. We went to Vienna, and there we changed trains, and we then took another train, which was about in the same condition, and which must have probably brought other workers to Vienna, and this other train lead us to Strassow, which was about twenty-five to thirty miles from Vienna.
Q And you got to Strassow on approximately what day?
A It must have been at about the 17th or 18th of March.
Q And how long did you remain in Strassow?
AAbout ten days.
Q Will you tell us and the Tribunal of the conditions that you had which prevailed in Strassow?
A The Strassow camp was a camp for Russian Political Deportees. As soon as we arrived at Strassow they put us into barracks, and we were about two-hundred to two-hundred fifty in the barracks. I must say that everybody tried to get some accommodations as well as he could, but I knew that our barracks was a barracks which was originally meant for forty persons, and we were at least two-hundred in this barracks.
Q. What did you sleep on in the barracks?
A. These barracks had some wooden constructions - military beds, but of course, as we were 200 in a barrack meant for 40 persons, it was altogether impossible to properly use this kind of wooden beds. I personally had taken some tins and some junk and I slept on that kind of thing.
Q. You slept on cans, did you?
A. Yes.
Q. And did they give you anything to clean the barracks with?
A. No, never.
A. How did you clean the barracks?
A. With my feet or otherwise with my hands. Everybody did what he could.
Q. How did you eat in Strassow?
A. I must say that the food was simply disasterous, as soon as I came down there. We had to stand in a queue for sometimes eight hours, not only for food but also for roll calls, and that always was in the open air, and it was very cold down there. We had temperatures down to minus 28 degrees Centigrade.
Q. How many times a day did you eat?
A. It always depended on the number of persons who were in the camp at the moment, but I may say that we had food twice a day, but there were no regular hours for that. Of course, they used the simplest method. We got a piece of bread and a cup of hot water, that is they called coffee.
Q. Do you recall sitting in barracks and looking out the windows?
A. Yes.
A. What did you see?
A. I have to give one more precision with regard to the food because I would like to tell this to the Tribunal.
Q. Go right ahead.
A. When we had a regular number of prisoners in the camp, we had our Harvard beets, together with 50 grams of bread - red beets - but as soon as the number of persons in the camp increased, became too high, then they immediately dropped this and we did not get it.
Q. How many people were in the camp normally?
A. The average was perhaps 3000.
Q. You have mentioned Russians. Were there people of any other nationalities in the camp?
A. Yes, Serbians, Croats, Czechoslovakians, and Poles. I think that was about all. Their number, of course, varied.
Q. Now, to get back to what you could see when you were sitting in the barracks.
A. Yes. The very day after we arrived, at sunrise, we were struck by the fact that we saw many Ukrainians going and coming, as we looked through the windows. These Ukrainians all carried stretchers and on these stretchers there was something. We could not quite see what it was. They came up to the barbed wire, somebody opened it, and they went through, and then they threw the contents of the stretcher into a hole, or whatever it was, and started making a prayer. We were at first very much puzzled as to what this meant. Afterwards we found out that these Ukrainians buried their own dead every day.
Q. Do you recall something that was said to you by one of the guards when you protested about the food there?
A. Yes. I remember that one day when we had been in a queue for four hours - I must say first of all that we had mostly old German policemen to guard us. Sometimes there were some young ones. On that day when we had been in the queue for four hours, I protested violently because we did not get any food and at that time one of these old German policemen came up to me and told me in pretty bad French that he had been a prisoner of war in France during the first World War and that he was going to make us pay for that.
His prediction proved to be quite correct. Somebody paid for it. It was not I, but one of the next days - the next day or the next but one there was a queue again and we were waiting and we did not get any food and the whole queue started to protest. I don't know whether these Germans got frightened or not but, anyhow, they started shooting into the crowd and six or seven - I don't know how many - of my comrades were shot.