I mentioned all that to the Secretary General. Thereupon at that time, I was granted permission to bring the witness to Nurnberg. After I had stated all that exactly.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal has approved this witness?
DR. BERGOLD: Yes. Yes, after I had made that announcement that he was in Muenster Camp.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, we have already arranged for tomorrow's program taking the depositions of several witnesses. Do you have anybody ready now to call on Thursday morning?
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, indeed. Herr Oberst Brauchitsch, and I could also get the witness, General Warlimont, but I would have to speak to the latter two; these witnesses however have been transferred to Nurnberg by the prosecution as witnesses or defendants and therefore I'd like to speak to them, in the presence of a commissioner.
THE PRESIDENT: You could do that tomorrow.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes; I could do it tomorrow, but tomorrow I have my session here.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, your session shouldn't take all day.
DR. BERGOLD: No, I don't think so; not all day. I believe we will be through in the morning.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, then in the afternoon you could consult those witnesses.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, I could if the prosecution would be kind enough to give me permission to do so.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, will you notify the prosecution then of the witnesses which you plan to call on Thursday?
DR. BERGOLD: Yes; the witness, General Velmi, -
THE PRESIDENT: I think you should give them this notice in writing.
DR. BERGOLD: Very well, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal, then, in session, will recess until Thursday morning at 9:30, the day after tomorrow.
We will recess at this time.
THE MARSHAL: This Tribunal is in recess until 0930, Thursday morning, the 20th of February.
(The Tribunal recessed until 20 February 1947, at 0930 hours.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the Matter of the United States of America against Erhard Milch, defendant, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 20 February 1947, O940 to 1630 hours, Justice Toms presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal II.
Military Tribunal II is now in session. God save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the court.
DR. BERGOLD (Counsel for defendant Milch): Your Honors, I ask permission to call the witness Brauchitsch.
THE PRESIDENT: The Marshal will bring the witness Brauchitsch ts the courtroom.
BERNDT VON BRAUCHITSCH, took the stand and testified as follows:
JUDGE SPEIGHT: Witness, raise your right hand and repeat after me: I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
JUDGE SPEIGHT: You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. BERGOLD:
Q Witness, please state your first and last names.
A I am named Berndt von Brauchitsch.
Q When were you born?
A 30 September 1911.
Q What was your last position?
A I was first military adjutant, Chief Adjutant, in the Luftwaffe.
Q And from when did you occupy that position?
A From 1940 to the conclusion of the war.
Q Where were you before 1940?
A Before 1940 I was commander of a Stuka group on the Western Front, and theretofore I was Ordnance Officer with the OKL.
Q Do you know Milch?
A Yes, I know him.
Q Can you identify him here in the court?
(The witness indicated.)
DR. BERGOLD: I ask that the record show that the witness identified the defendant.
THE PRESIDENT: The record will so show.
BY DR. BERGOLD:
Q Witness, do you know from what time on Milch was GL?
A Field Marshal Milch was GL, or he took over that job after the death of Colonel General Udet.
Q Witness, do you know how workers were recruited within the air armaments industry?
A I know that on the part of the Luftwaffe there was no connection in the matter of worker recruitment; rather, workers were requested through Offices.
Q What did the Luftwaffe do on its own in the worker question, or had the Luftwaffe nothing to do with if
AAs far as I know, the Luftwaffe took care of purely statistical matters in the worker question within the organization of the GL, but it had nothing to do with the finding or recruiting of workers.
Q Is it not true that workers for industry were recruited by the Armaments Inspectorate?
A How the workers got from the Labor Offices to industry and what the details were, I can not say.
Q Are the armaments Inspectorates subordinate to the Luftwaffe?
A No, the Armaments Inspectorates were subordinate to the OKW.
Q To whom were the workers in Germany subordinate in their recruiting and their care and supervision?
A Orginally the Ministry of Labor, and then later, at a time which I can not state specifically, Sauckel, who took over this job directly from Hitler and was immediately subordinate to and reported directly to Hitler. 1272
Q Is it not true that according to the existing regulations Sauckel was formally subordinate to Goering under the Four Year Plan?
A It is possible that formally he was subordinate to the Four Year Plan, but in practice he received his orders directly from Hitler and passed them on accordingly.
Q Do you know who ordered the use of concentration camp inmates?
A Since the Luftwaffe had nothing to do with preparing and finding manpower, this decision could only have been made outside and must have been done by Sauckel's office.
Q Is it not correct that such use traces back to Hitler and Himmler?
A I hold it to be quite possible that this decision -- or rather, I consider it absolutely certain that that is where the decision was made.
Q Did the GL have an opportunity in regard to workers assigned by to him by the Labor Offices to refuse them, or did he have to take what was offered?
A The GL had no influence on the finding of workers or on the use of them; rather, he had to take the workers who were assigned to him for the tasks of his industry. That is to say, they were not given to him as GL but were given to the industry.
Q Do you know that Milch made efforts to have as many German workers as possible?
A I know that the fight for German workers played an enormous role and that everyone made efforts to keep German workers. I also know in this connection that there was a struggle with the OKW to keep workers who were to be inducted as soldiers and, after they were unsuccessful in this endeavor, to have them made Luftwaffe soldiers and then to be transferred back to industry. I seem to remember a number of roughly 40,000 who were involved in this matter, and there were also soldiers from the Luftwaffe who were assigned to industry.
Q Witness, what observations did you make regarding the treatment of foreign workers?
A I can say but little on this subject. I know that when the High Commander visited industry, he spoke to workers, asked them about their troubles and their needs. There were many foreign workers among this group, because Germans and foreigners worked together and were not separated at the work benches, but I do not remember any complaints, except one case which I remember when a Czech student said that he would prefer to keep on studying rather than to work at the work bench, whereupon Goering told him that that would take a while but that he would examine that particular question.
Q Were steps taken then?
A Since this was a civilian matter, I can say nothing on the subject for certain.
Q Witness, were acts of sabotage frequent in the air armaments industry?
A Sabotage in the air armaments industry was very infrequent. I remember no really important case, except for little, minor matters that came up from time to time, such as a hammer being missing or being left under the hood of an airplane, or something of that sort. Really essential cases of sabotage or whole series of acts of sabotage did not occur.
Q. Witness, do you know what the attitude was, on the part of the high officials, namely, in regard to the question whether the workers liked or did not like to work?
A. The opinion was that the few cases of sabotage were proof to the fact that the workers were doing their work willingly, and it was repeatedly ascertained that the work was done very satisfactorily.
Q. Witness, can you tell us whether and to what extent Milch had to carry out work as Goering's deputy?
A. Until 1937 the offices of the Luftwaffe were directly under Field Marshal Milch. From 1937 on, the matter was reorganized, the General Staff, the GL, the Luftwaffe Personnel Office, wore separated, and these offices were immediately subordinated to the Chief of the OKL personally. I remember that the question came up regarding who was the Chief of the OKL's deputy when he was on vacation, and he stated specifically that the oldest and highest ranking officer in the organization of the OKL did not want to take over this deputization, but had refused it, and, that is to say, the GL should remain competent for matters of the GL and the Chief of the OKL for OKL matters and the personnel manager should remain competent for personnel matters, and so on.
Q. Did you know that after 1937 -- did you know of any order after 1937 according to which Milch was to take over the deputization for Goering?
A. No; I know of no such case--rather, I do know that the Reichsmarshal refused to have any such total representation, very strenuously.
Q. Why was that?
A. That is somewhat beyond me. There were technical and personal differences frequently between Milch and Goering. The reasons for that may have been that the Chief of the OKL did not want to entrust Milch with the Central Command.
Q. Can you state, or are you not in a position to state that relations became tense as early as 1937 or 1938?
A. As I said before, I do remember the change in the organization, and the channels of command, when certain offices were put directly under the Chief 1275 a of the OKL.
This could have been the reason why the opinions of the two gentlemen did not entirely correspond, from then on.
Q. Do you know that Goering once said that it was not important to him that Milch take over the activity of General Inspector?
A. I do recall such a remark on the occasion of a conference in East Prussia, where the GL made suggestions regarding changes in the way the air arms should be used. A discussion followed in rather sharp terms, and Goering said at that time that he was not really interested in having Milch function as General Inspector.
Q. Is it true that there were continual difficulties between the two men on the question of the aircraft production program?
A. In this field, there were considerable troubles during the war in the Luftwaffe. Do you want me to tell you the time, the situation at Udet's time, or the program situation under Milch?
Q. First, please, the situation under Milch.
A. Field Marshal Milch was, after 1941, after the beginning of the Russian campaign, and the two-front war had become a reality, of the opinion, and said so in writing and orally, several times, and told Goering several times in 1942 and 1943, that the essential condition for maintaining the strength of the nation with regard to economic and political leadership was the protection of the home country; that, moreover, the soldier on the front shall have the possibility and the certainty of knowing that his relatives at home are in safety. Consequently, he demanded the predominance of the fighter production to the production of bombers. All sorts of fighters, day and night fighters, anti-aircraft, radar and so on -- all of these should be under one direction, the production and development of these weapons, and that was his attitude until this suggestion or attitude met with unconquerable opposition, until 1943 that is, until the defensive war began to decline. In these discussions which often became very spirited, Milch expressed his opinion very sharply and clearly to Goering because he was responsible for this job; ho also made demands for material and personnel for anti-aircraft defense in order to meet the demands that Hitler made on him.
On the other hand, however, these demands could not 1276a be met because there were always additional and different orders from the Fuehrer.
In early December 1943, the High Commander took over Milch's attitude that fighter production should be more predominant over border production, but, despite all the support of all the Luftwaffe offices, it was not possible to break the Fuehrer's opposition to this, and to bring him to the point of view that fighter production should occupy the first rank, with all the necessary accessories.
Q. Do you know at what point in the armaments program the fighter production program stood until 1943?
A. In contrast to the allied forces -- in Germany, the fighter production stood in seventh place -- except for the production of crankshafts and after 1942 of radar.
Q. Witness, hereafter, speak considerably slower. Witness, I return to the question of Milch's relations with Goering. Do you know that, in the spring of 1944, there was a basic discussion which then led to a break between the two men?
A. In the spring of 1944, the fighter staff was built, on which occasion there were arguments which extended from the spring of 1944 into the summer of 1944, and led to the result that Milch was excluded from the entire fighter program so far as production was concerned, and simply continued to exercise his functions as General Inspector in the GL.
Q. Witness, do you know whether Milch could go to Hitler without Goering's permission?
A. I know that no Luftwaffe officer could report to Hitler without the permission of the OKL.
Q. When you say "High Commander", you mean "Goering"?
A. Yes.
Q. I simply want that to be clearly shown on the record, because that is not the common understanding.
A. Whenever I say "High Commander of the Luftwaffe", I mean Goering.
Q. Witness, do you know that in 1944, Milch had been given wide plenipotentiary powers from Goering?
A. Such plenipotentiary powers in 1944 would have been impossible, because at that time the armament of the Luftwaffe was in the hands of the fighter staff, and, thus, in the hands of the Ministry for Armaments.
BY DR. BERGOLD: Your Honor, from Document 2C, I desire to bring up Document No. KW 247. I do not have the exhibit number, but it is on page 99 of the document book.
Q. please look at this authorization which had been given in June of 1944; do you remember also having seen such an authorization of plenipotentiary powers through work in the office, and are you certain that such authorization was given in 1944?
A. Whether or not such plenipotentiary powers were given previously to that, I do not know, but I do not believe so.
Q. Do you know that Milch before the beginning of the Russian War protested vigorously against any extension of such war, and that he also appealed to Goering?
A. I do remember a remark in April or May of 1941, at which time General Milch had a talk with Goering in order to point out that waging war against Russia could not be carried out, and 1278 A he asked him to bring up this point with the Fuehrer.
Q. Witness, do you remember who ordered the Luftwaffe underground factories for the Luftwaffe industry?
A. After the attacks, on the Luftwaffe industry increased in 1943, and in also 1944, Goering demanded frequently that the Luftwaffe factories should be transferred to underground installations.
Q. Witness, do you know whether Milch himself could pass the death penalty on members of the Luftwaffe?
A. From the questions asked me by Luftwaffe officers and Air Fleet Chiefs, Goering, only, had the right to pass death penalties, and he refused to give up that right to the Luftwaffe chiefs, on the ground that that was strictly his own prerogative, as Head of the Luftwaffe; namely, the right to decide on the life or death of Luftwaffe soldiers. Even in the case where an air fleet chief requested it, he refused. When Milch asked it, he still refused. So that he, alone, in the Luftwaffe, was in a position to impose or pass upon anybody the death penalty.
Q. Did Milch ever have any opportunity to pass the death penalty on prisoners of war, inmates of concentration camps, or foreign workers?
A. Sentence, if passed, confirmed by the Luftwaffe Court, was approved solely by Goering.
Q. Witness, can you tell me when the basic Fuehrer Order No. 1. regarding secrecy was issued?
A. In December or January of 1941, two flyers were brought down in Belgium. On the basis of this occurrence, the Fuehrer issued an order that every office could be only informed or even talk only about those matters necessary for the fulfillment of its plans, and that, as late as possible. This was in the beginning of 1940. Yes, that is when it was.
BY THE PRESIDENT: In the document that you just read from, Exhibit 99, No. KW 247, does the "Reich-Marshal of Greater Germany" refer to "Goering"?
BY DR. BERGOLD: Yes, sir; there was only one Reichmarshal in Germany that was of general higher rank than Field Marshal.
BY THE PRESIDENT: I understand that the document is not signed and I wanted it made clear on the record.
BY DR. BERGOLD: Yes, thank you.
Q. Witness, can you tell me of the relationship between Goering and Udet. Here previously there was something inquired regarding it, and I want to know what the reason was for a certain severance of relations that took place between Goering and Udet?
A. The relationship between Udet and Goering relations were very friendly; but when Udet took over the job of Inspector General of the GL, this position was made immediately subordinate to him, so that Udet reported directly to Goering. These were private reports. In the spring of 1941, the Chief under the General Staff of the Luftwaffe, General Jeschenek, found a discrepancy between the numbers that the GL announced and the quartermasterGeneral took over. Then there were discussions on the subject, I recall very well because they fell within the period of the Jugo-Slavian Campaign. This discussion was to clarify the first of the differences, on the one hand, and, on the other band, why the programs that had been set, were being generally changed. We called these programs "Sliding programs". For this reason, there were certain difficulties between the Chief of the General Staff and Udet, because it was a great nuisance and trouble to find these mistakes. These were the reasons a certain change of relationship took place between Goering and Udet. And I believe in the late summer of 1941, Field Marshal Milch was commissioned to take part as adviser of Udet in the production program. Udet seemed to become more and more uncertain, and was also in a bad state of health. All of the armament matters that did not come off very well under him, he cried to bring into order.
While, on the other hand, he understood the impossibility of carrying out this program, on the other hand, he incurred the mistrust of, and became personna non grata with Goering, and this lead to the fact that in November of 1941, he shot himself.
DR. BERGOLD: I have no further questions.
1280 a) BY MR. DENNEY:
Q. Did you ever attend any of the meetings of the Jaegerstab?
A. Personally I never took part in any.
Q. Did you ever go to any meetings of the Central Planning Board?
A. No, never.
Q. Did you ever go to any meetings of the GL (General Luftfengmeister?
A. Only once.
Q. What did they talk about at that one meeting that you went to?
A. I cannot remember any details of just what they debated about at that time. I only know that production questions were talked over with all the competent officers and engineers but I cannot remember any of the detail.
Q. Do you remember when that meeting was?
A. 1943, I think.
Q. Did you hear mention anything about slave labor or farm workers?
A. I remember no discussion of such questions. I do remember discussion on production problems and program schedule and so on, but I cannot remember any details of that conference.
Q. You did not hear them say anything about concentration camp workers working for the aircraft industry?
A. From this discussion I remember nothing. I myself only know there were two concentration camps, Oranienburg and Dachau.
Q. Those were the two concentration camps you ever knew about, that of Oranienburg and Dachau?
A. Those are the only ones I ever know about, yes.
Q. You did not find out about any of the rest of these until after the war was over?
A. The names were are now familiar with were not familiar to me at all previously.
Q. So that prior to the German capitulation in the spring 1945 the only two concentration camps you ever heard about were Dachau and Oranienburg?
A. Yes, that is true.
1281 A
Q. Did you know what they did with people in the concentration camps?
A. No, I did not know of it.
Q. You assumed that everybody that was ever sent to a concentration camp, and the only two you knew about, Dachau and Oranienburg, was properly condemned after a proper judicial process by a proper German court?
A. The rest of the situation was this: We thought that people who had been condemned were sentenced by regular courts and were taken to concentration camps.
Q. You never knew anything about any foreigners being sent to concentration camps?
A. No, I don't know of any.
Q. Then you are sure that all people who went to concentration camps were criminals, undesirable people?
A. Yes.
Q. You were Goering's adjutant from 1940 until the end of the war, weren't you?
A. Yes.
Q. Did the occasion ever arise when somebody would come to Goering and say, "Please get my friend out of a concentration camp."?
A. No, that did not happen. I only know that people would come to me to intervene for people who had been arrested by the Gestapo.
Q. Well, what happened to the people who were sentenced by the Gestapo? Where did they go?
A. That I cannot tell you. I know that there was a Gestapo prison in the Prinzregentenstrasse in Berlin - Prinz Albrechtstrasse, rather.
Q. Whatever was the one street or other does not make any difference, but you knew they had a prison there?
A. Yes, that I knew.
Q. So far as you knew, you never made any inquiries about the concentration camps and you did not know what the Gestapo was doing?
A. No, that was not known to me either but in one case I mentioned the name was cleared up and the man was set free.