SPEER: It would be advisable to make the draft of women somewhat cleaner in the press.
FIELD MARSHAL MILCH: That would primarily have to be placed in the foreground. In this respect the question is whether I will receive the accounts from our industry in time. The matter is bound to be settled some time. There will be no deception. People who want to deceive, also deceive now, whether they have this personnel or not, whether their accounts are up to date or not. The other people are decent. The mass has not engaged in deception. Whether we are a little backward in checking prices will not be very important. The most important thing is to work. He know what is produced abroad, having now received their figures. The Russian actually makes 2000 aircraft a month in the way of front-line craft. This figure is far higher than ours. This must not be forgotten. We must get to the assembly line and produce quite other figures."
This document is to show that Field Marshal Milch was very much endeavoring to leave the French workers in France with their own firms, and to transfer actually only their orders, which the International Military Tribunal has counted as exonerating circumstances in the case of Speer, as that was productive work; so far as Milch is concerned we want to point out that he did the very same thing for the aircraft industry, and this is the basis upon which he endorsed a reasonable arrangement. It also shows that the man always had in mind the reasonable economical thing. Finally the document proves that individual remarks which in themselves were of no significance, flowers of speech which did not lead to any result, as for instance, in the getting of continuances, which is shown by the last words of Speer and of Milch in the marginal note. I will also show that the word used was not at all what it was implied to be, but that it was Goering, and that because he had difficulties with Goering the minutes were changed. In turn again I show this passage was taken out from the document because at that time serious difficulties arose between him and Goering.
I now turn to page 124, Page 54 of the original, 2nd paragraph. Extract of Shorthand report of the 39th Meeting of the Central Planning Board on the subject Food Situation and Armament Industry held on Friday 23 April 1943, 9:30 AM, Exhibit No. 9, and at page 20a of the English Document Book. I read, "Extract of Shorthand Report of the 38th meeting of the Central Planning Board on the subject Food Situation and Armament Industry held on Friday 23 April 1943, 9:30 AM in the Festival Barack near the zoo, Jebenstrasse, second paragraph, page 54, reading: page 20b of the Document Book:
"MILCH: I am convinced that there are more Russian prisoners of war. At that time 4,000,000 were captured. A large part of them died, however, the number of those who are still living is higher than we are told now. We reckon here with hundred thousand Russian prisoners of wan in the agriculture. Altogether, we have 300,000 of them in the Reich. During the first World War, I had 200 Italian prisoners of war with me. These prisoners were to be turned over however, we kept ours by reporting them dead in order to keep them. And these people also wanted to stay, in spite of the fact that we told them that they would be reported dead even to their families. We dragged these prisoners around with us till the end of the war. This proves that the assertions that have been made regarding the number of employed Russians arc wrong.
KEHRL: If the food supplies of the labor brought in from abroad are taken from the German rations then, while we think that we are very rich for having these people, the German rations are in reality reduced, and the decrease in the working capacity of our own workers does more harm than the good done my the new people. This proves that they were not starved but were fed at the expense of the German people.
SPEER: But from the figures of this incoming labor we have to deduct those who leave the country because of expired foreign agreements, and the others which we lose because of cases of death or illness. On the whole the increase of labor in our total professional war economy is not at all so very important.
This again proves that the agreements were made voluntarily, because they were terminated and the workers had to return home.
"(interpolation: The more labor we fetch from the East, the more this total figure will increase.)
BACKE: But there is a limit, too, in the number of men we can absorb. At that time we were told that one million was to be taken into the country, from the East. Now we have already got several millions.
MILCH: You can not count that way. Before all these measures in the second year of the war, the Air Force had 1.8 million men and today it has less than two million. The whole air armament which is a considerable part of the total war armament, that is, in the course of the war, or in the last 2½ years of the war, has not even increased by 10 percent. In reality the total increase in this field amounts to about 125,000 to 150,000 men. We are always looking for those people. That is our main problem."
This man told of this agreement, the fact all were voluntary, because they were issued in accordance with that and they are no longer valid. The figures were raised more as pertains to the reference of Backe, "But there is a limit, too, in the number of men we can absorb. At that time we were told that one million workers be taken into the country from the East. Now we have already got severed millions."
If the Court please, this is supposed to show the demands were so gigantic that the aircraft production was started early: because one of the most important things was obtained, and people were not drafted at random.
I now pass to our page 124, a document in the Speer minutes of the 50th Conference of the Central Planning meeting held 22 November 1943. This will be Exhibit No. 10, and at page 21 of the English Document Book. "Extract of the Shorthand Record of the Central Planning concerning Energy on 22 November 1943", page 63 of the original:
"KEHRL: I would appreciate our discussing the boiler-wagon question first. Here I have a request to the Field Marshal. We have asked the Luftwaffe to deliver boiler-wagons to us. They gave us 1000 wagons last year. They now have given us 600 wagons. We had requested 2000. Now it is practically thus that everything we could not transport resulted in the total 532-a loss for the effective fuel-supply.
During the month of November 23 we had, considering what we could have had, a deficit of approximately 100 to 120,000 tons -- really a disastrous loss. Could you not, Field Marshal, take an appropriate decision"?
It continues at --
FIELD MARSHAL MILCH: An enormous amount of barrels are being made.
SPEER: The number of 250,000 will diminish in the future because of lack of tin material.
FIELD MARSHAL MILCH: During the winter no barrel will be returned. They will disappear in the stoves.
BIESE: As long as the war will last in the East, the largest amount of the new production of barrels will go to the front.
FIELD MARSHAL MILCH: I see that also in our place. We manufacture smaller barrels, and use an enormous amount. One should say to the soldiers: "If you do not return the barrels, you shall not get any fuel any more."
I went to show by this that, while we was opposed to the number, he did not reply in that there were so many meetings, and so much was talked about -- there were so many proposals, that he did not do anything about it. I want also to show how much he was ready at first, to make statements, in his proposal that the soldiers were not to be given any more barrels; if they did not give back any barrels, they they were not to get the fuel any more. Nobody could reduce the consumption, but it showed that he made utterances which nobody seriously because in war time nobody can refuse the troops fuel which they need. But it was simply the nature of this man, to make exaggerated statements without meaning them seriously.
I now come to the minutes, on page 124, meeting cf the 53rd Conference of the Central Planning. This is a long document, it is thirty-five pages long and before the recess I will say we will not finish.
However, I should like to read it in one stretch, so that the Tribunal might have an idea what was being discussed in one such meeting in the Central Planning Board, that one does not simply deal with the slave labor program but that it 533-a involves certain possible remarks at random.
I would suggest now a recess so I may at this time be able to read it altogether after the recess.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal plans to recess at 12:20 today in any event, and to resume the session at 2:30 P.M. If it will conform with your convenience we may recess now and resume at 2:30 this afternoon.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, very much so. Thank you.
THE MARSHAL: This Tribunal will recess until 2:30 this afternoon.
(thereupon noon recess was taken to 1430 hours.)
(The hearing reconvened at 1430 hours, 27 January 1947.)
BY DR. BERGOLD (Continued):
May it please the Tribunal, before I continue with the reading of my document, I should like to return to Exhibit No. 4, and ask you please to turn to it once more. This is number eighteen. After this meeting I discovered that the Chief of the Luftwaffe was to build so-called American bombers, which were to be built by Messerschmitt to bomb American cities, and in this case you can see what difficulty was encountered here by me. All of these documents I have been presenting to you, I have not been able to talk over with my client. I had to leave these documents at the Information Center, and then, according to my own judgment, I had to scrutinize these documents alone, without being able to turn to my client. I had to copy them, and it was only after they had been copied that the defendant could see them. You can readily see what sort of difficulty confronted me under such circumstances. The very first thing a defense lawyer should do is to show such documents to his client; that of course, I am not able to do. I simply want to point that out to you. Had I been able to take these documents from the Information Center, then I could have talked it over with my client immediately. However, I had to copy them, have them mimeographed, and only then could I talk them over with my client. That is merely an example of what I have to contend with.
I will continue now with our page 124, the Minutes of the 53rd Conference, on 16 February, 1944. This will be Exhibit No. 11, This is a very extensive document. It is document of a meeting concerning labor employment. It is a meeting concerning labor employment on the basis of which in the year 1944 the allocation of labor requirements in the amount of four and a half million workers was published; and this document was shown to you by the Prosecution with the defendant's personal initials on it. You will see from this that the question of foreign workers occupies only a relatively small part of the total statements of this 53rd meeting, and that people always asked themselves whether these workers were really available or whether they were being deceived by Sauckel.
Permit me to begin now, extract from the Minutes of the 53rd Conference, on the 16th of February, 1944.
Page 1 of the original:
DR. JANICKE/C
535 A
MILCH: Good day, gentlemen. We of the Central Planning, in conjunction with the GBA, should like to discuss in this circle of these most in need of manpower, the question how the personnel needs can be met in this year or in the next quarter. We are very thankful to the GBA for his work in this field and that he has given us the chance of talking it over among ourselves. I am particularly grateful for his preparation of the statistics which all you gentlemen have received and which Sauckel had managed to refuse at that time. That's the reason for our gratefulness.
So far as this material is concerned let me draw your attention to a few points.
First, page 1: New Employment and Separations. In the four quarters here described, namely from the last quarter of 1942 to the third quarter of 1943, we had a demand for about 30 million workers, which was designated as requirement. This figure corresponds to the total number of all employed in Germany and, looking at it absolutely, we see that our needs represent something impossible. If, however, we examine it more closely we observe that the balance, that is, what was received in one quarter, was always carried forward for the next quarter. It is interesting that altogether 9,780,000 requests were made. Over against this stands a decrease through discharges, according to the compulsory labor registration statistics, of 6,800,000; so there accordingly remains a surplus of new employment of circa 3,000,000. But several things must still be deducted from this number; those that have died, total invalids, and various others. It would be interesting if later you, President Kehrl, would speak about this matter briefly.
The second page shows the allocations of labor forces made by the Labor Offices from 1 October 1942 until 1 October 1943. From it one sees that agriculture was well taken care of with 1,800,000, and, after armaments and war production, received the largest allocation of the total of 9,700,000.
It is remarkable that domestic services received the very large increase of 810,000.
Page three, which shows the total balance of labor forces, makes clear that before the war we had a total number of 38,500,000 persons employed whereas we now have 36,000,000, that is about 2,600,000 less. This matter is also important for the Ministry of Agriculture in their consideration of the question how these workers are fed.
Most interesting of all is the last number, namely, the number of employed females. Before the war there were 14,030,000; In May 1942 only 13,900,000. This number has now, 31 May 1943, again reached 14,270,000. This means that 240,000 German women have been willing to work more during the war than in peacetime. Included among these are still very many women working only half a day and very many working for the Wehrmacht. However, there has been a complete failure in the mobilization of German women for work and armament. We need only point out that the USA has 5,500,000 more women working than in peacetime, and that in England the situation is proportionately the same. You must indeed admit that the captured Russian officer is right, to whom opportunity was given to look around in Germany, and who answered, when he was asked what struck him most, that in Russia the war was being carried on by 100 per cent of the population, but in Germany not even by 40 per cent. Effort and work of a propagandistic nature has not been lacking; the fault therefore does not lie here. I believe that the volunteer method simply does not work here. In England an additional 250,000 women are being compulsorily inducted into war production. There, in other words, they have moved gradually from the mild to the compulsory method and the people accept it without question.
KEHRL: In England, of 17,200,000 women between the ages of 14 and 65, 10,400,000 work, which is 61 per cent, work either a whole or half day; in Germany, of 31,000,000, 14,300,000 work, which is 46 per cent. In other words 15 per cent more women are employed in England.
MILCH: Page 4 gives the statistics of the General Army Office on workers draft-deferred as essential; to be sure, as of 1 October 1943, these statistics have probably undergone essential changes in the meantime. The individual annual classes are of interest. Of the annual classes after 1901 only 3,400,000 are still to be regarded as draft-deferred as essential. Of these only circa 1,000,000 are in the armaments industry. Heavy employment of these draft-deferred as essential is to be found first of all in agriculture and also in the crafts, trades, transportation, and administration; and, of course, also in mining.
KEHRL: A rather large part of those employed in administration are employed by the SS, because this includes the police and the Reich Labor Service.
GANZENMUELLER: In the transportation sector all these railroad workers are included who are employed in the occupied eastern and western territories and are to be regarded as soldiers.
MILCH: According to that, the figures should be differentiated.
BACKE: According to tho nearest statistics only 250,000 men of the annual classes 1906 and younger are classified as draft-deferred as essential.
MILCH: I do not want to express any criticism of agriculture but merely elucidate the actual state of affairs. The Wehrmacht says that theoretically all who are mentioned on this page should become soldiers; but in reality a great part of them are already doing military service. Page 5 presents the national economic manpower balance, a very interesting comilation. The status as of 31 May 1939 is reckoned as 100. According to that, agriculture has remained at the same strenght, with 100 per cent. On the other hand, forestry and lumbering have declined as of 31 May 1943 to 81 percent.
BACKE: In part, agriculture does some lumbering work, for instance in the transportation of lumber.
MILCH: Of all the various departments, forestry has given up most for military service. Amazingly enough, armaments and war production have declined from 100 per cent to 89 per cent. At the same time, industry moved from 100 before the war to 91 in the middle of 1942, and to 101 in the middle of 1943. The handicrafts declined very radically, likewise the power-industry. Transportation rose from 100 to 109, because as you know, we have to provide transportation for the whole world.
(GANZENMUELLER: The Russian railways are included in this.)
MICH: Conditions in distribution, that is, trade, foreign trade, banks, and insurance, tho number sank from 100 to 67. Now, does this percentage represent the actual employment in these departments, or should not the personnel still be regarded as to high?
Now come governmental and Wehrmacht administration Government administration sank from 100 to 89, but Wehrmacht administration rose from 100 to 213 %.
BOSCH: This includes the female day labor, but not what belongs to the troops, nor the female anti-air-craft labor. On the other hand, those employed in administration are included. Nurses are not included.
MILCH: In other words, no staff personnel. Before the war the number of staffs was small, and communications ware taken care of mostly by men. During the war the number of staffs increased measurably. Nevertheless this question must be examined again. At the moment enormous transfers of personnel are taking place within the Wehrmacht. Thus the Luftwaffe has so far withdrawn 250,000 men, draft-deferred as essential, from its own supply of 1,800,000, and has mobilized them for infantry service at the fronts. Likewise, enormous numbers of staffs have been dissolved or are in the process of being dissolved. At the moment, 30 per cent of all our staffs are being dissolved. Moreover, there exists a basic order that every part not at the front must give up 25 per cent of its personnel far this purpose. The Ministry has been reduced to the peace-time status:
Anyway, I have always considered a small staff good, and a good one as capable of working. The technical personnel is the heaviest burden on our administrative machinery. That is the armaments engineers and the architects. These are to be turned over, not to the front, but to industry where there is a lack of skilled personnel which can only be filled in this way. In six years if this trend continues; there won't be any more technical personnel at all.
"The next number; which I do not understand, is the medical service which has risen to 118% or 630,000 men. That must include the nurses.
"From the audience: Yes, everyone in the country who is in hospitals, etc.)
"Domestic servants are an interesting point, the number of whom has declined from 1,100,000 before the war only to 1,025,000 or in other words to 90%. It seems to me that this number is much too high, however. This still included 950,000 Germans and only the ridiculous remainder are foreign women.
"Page 6 shows the employment of women and only native German women. The calculation is based on the data of the Reich Statistics Office.
"There follow the figures according to the compilation. The number in Wehrmacht Administration has risen from 105 before the war to 500;000 on 31 May 1943; that is, 476%. Considerable amounts of manpower could still be mobilized from here for the armament industry and agriculture.
"Bosch: In East Prussia the number of those employed is only 110;000; in the Wehrmacht Administration it is 69,000.
"Mich: In transportation the number has risen from 100 to 350%, which is to be explained by the fact that very many men have been replaced by women.
"Kehrl: Despite the fact that work on the Reichsbahn is difficult, a greet number of women, thanks to correct propaganda, have applied for it.
"Ganzenmueller: That includes the women street car conductors. We have about 200,000 in the Reichsbahn itself.
"Mich: There is nothing to say about page 7, I to III. Then page 8 is interesting.
The participation of Wehrmacht manufacture in armaments and war production. Of the 12,200,000 employed in industry, only 65% are engaged in Wehrmacht deliveries, and if the trades only 35% work for the Wehrmacht. If we take both of these together, only 55% in industry and the trades work for armaments. So the Russian was not so wrong wit his 40%.
"Now here is a compilation that shows the manpower balance for the first quarter of 1944; namely, the amounts of manpower and their distribution. Let me ask the GBA to elucidate the balance, so that those with requirements may be able to react to the figures.
"Berk: Let me first make a few remarks on page 3. According to it, the total manpower balance as of 31 May 1939 in 38,580,000 and as of 31 May 1943 is 35,900,000. This includes also those who are self-employed, whereas we otherwise give only the figures of those employed by others. The Field Marshal pointed out that the total number of persons employed has declined considerable, namely by nearly 3,000,000. It is to be noticed in this connection that since 31 May 1939, very considerable withdrawals have taken place, to- it, nearly 10,000,000. The supply of native Germans demonstrates that clearly; 38,280,000 as of 31 May 1939, as against 29, 730,000 now. It must be observed here that the total number of persons employed has not declined to the same extent as the new employment has.
Actually it has, so far as persons employed by others are concerned, increased since the Plenipotentiary General began his activities, namely by circa 3,000,000.
"KEHRL: After one year of the plenipotentiary-general's activities we have an increase of 1,000,000; namely from 34,900,000 to 35,900,000."
THE INTERPRETER: Your Honor, there is a page in the English text that Dr. Bergold is not reading. He is now on Page 30 at the passage marked "Milch".
DR. BERGOLD: I shall read what I did omit. This is on Page 29, in the middle.
"Kehrl: After one year of the Plenipotentiary-General's activities we have had an increase of l,000,000; namely, from 34,900,000 to 35,900,000.
"Bosch: On page 1 are to be found only the allocations by the GBA and the discharges according to the payroll statistics. There are still many goes in this. On page 3 we have the actual state of employment, so that here we find the clear balance of 1,000,000 plus. But it is not more.
"Berk: The manpower balance includes also those who are self-employed, and this is the reason for the erroneous picture. It is noteworthy that despite the considerable withdrawals the number of persons employed by others has increased through the very large accretion from foreign countries. Page 5, female employment, the comparison does not present a clear picture, since the main increase in female employment is not indicated here. The decree on mandatory registration which the GBA issued on 14 January on the basis of the Fuehrer's edict will not become practically effective before the months of June and July. 1,650,000 women have been added. This figure does not appear in the manpower balance. In the meantime some of the women have left, so that at the present moment the numerical balance is not entirely clear. To be sure, we have more precise figures, but I do not have them with me, because I was sent to this conference only at the last minute. As you know, the Fuehrer exercises for biological reasons the greatest restraint in this question of female employment. In addition, in sectors that are not definitely essential for the war, very essential decreases have taken place. The question of the domestic servants is being considered in detail in our office, namely with the fact in view that now, because of the bombing attacks, households have had to crowd together.
At the proper time Gauleiter Sauckel will explain this himself.
Page 1 does not present a clear picture insofar as it is stated in sections 2 and 3 that with the cooperation of the Employment Offices 9,780,000 are employed, and according to the compulsory labor registration statistics, 6,820,000 have been discharged, so that an excess of now employment of theoretically 2,960,000 has been calculated. Now, the Employment Offices do not play a part in every individual hiring or firing. Thus, for example, farm hands are taken on today and leave tomorrow. And again the comparison of these figures does not provide an unobjectionable picture of what really happens. Many persons are also transferred and discharged several times, for example the unloaders of freight, and they probably appear in these figures several times.
"Wilch: What I have said should not be construed as a criticism of the GBA's work; on the contrary, we are all grateful for what has been done. I consider the figures, incomplete as they may be, a great step forward in our discussions. The earlier statistics were even less precise and fewer in number, and because of this, criticism was expressed that was not based on facts.
"Our efforts are directed, in joint conferences with the GBA, toward limiting our demands to what is really necessary, in order to make it easier for the GBA, and indeed to make it possible at all, to fulfill them."
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Bergold, may I interrupt please? This is a very long document.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: What do you hope it will prove?
DR. BERGOLD: I wish to prove through this, the way in which this very important work was carried out at these meetings. It has been established that the numbers are not correct because they did not include the fluctuations. This has a bearing on the question of whether or not any such enslavement would be carried on here. The Prosecution presented a pretty one-sided picture of the activity of the Defendant. We can achieve a clear picture only if we view the total picture of his activities. If individual pages are quoted, we cannot. These minutes demonstrate how these figures were tossed back and forth. I wish to establish, your Honors, that you must be presented with a complete picture of the manner in which these meetings functioned. These meetings were simply discussions and no more.
THE PRESIDENT: It is your point that even if forced labor were discussed, many other things were discussed at greater length?
DR. BERGOLD: No. The total question of employment for Germany was discussed, not simply the employment of foreign labor. The employment of German labor was discussed to a much greater extent.
THE PRESIDENT: That is the point which I am making. Even though forced labor was discussed, it was only a part of the total problem of labor from all sources?
DR. BERGOLD: One moment please; you will see from these minutes that these gentlemen were not concerned with forcing these people to work, but singly in finding out how many were needed and where they could be found. I shall later deal with the question of the extent to which the defendant was aware of whether or not they were brought in under compulsion. As far as speaking of foreign workers, they simply discussed what was absolutely necessary and what is not; there was no discussion of compulsory labor.
THE PRESIDENT: That is a good deal like claiming that two men who are planning to commit a robbery, they also discussed philosophy. Incidental subjects could be discussed which do not seen to be of any interest. The only question is whether they discussed anything criminal.
DR. BERGOLD: You cannot decide whether it was a crime unless you have the total picture of the discussion. Then you can see what position the discussion of criminal activity occupied. The way this matter was presented by the prosecution was completely incorrect.
JUDGE MUSSMANO: If I choose certain things from the total picture, I can create almost any impression I would like to create?
THE PRESIDENT: It is not a question of contents; it is a question of degree or proportion. Is that what you mean?
DR. BERGOLD: Your Honors, to be sure, but I wish to point out of what slight importance those pages that the Prosecution emphasized occupied as a whole. They did not spend time discussing how they could compel people to work for them; but they said if they could not get along with the Germans solely, then they would make use of foreigners.
JUDGE MUSSMANO: You are referring to one particular meeting. You are saying that at this particular meeting, the subject of slave labor was given very little prominence. That is one meeting. Do you intend to argue that this meeting is a pattern and typical of all meetings? Are you saying that this meeting is typical of all meetings?
DR. BERGQLD: Yes. It is a typical example of all such meetings; only at a very few of these meetings did they discuss the employment of forced labor. I believe only two in tote. The second was the other one which we spoke of this morning in the year 1944.
THE PRESIDENT: Does the fact that an alleged criminal plan was only a small part of the total plan, make it any less criminal?
DR. BERGOLD: Mr. President, I wish to prove that there was no discussion of any criminal plan. They simply said, "We will get so and so many forces from Sauckel and we shall distribute then."
That is all that was said. It was simply a question of allocating the forces that were provided by Sauckel.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal is supposed to give you every reasonable latitude. Probably you should be allowed to read the rest of this document. The inference to be drawn from it is not altogether persuasive.
JUDGE MUSSMANO: Are you using up a great deal of time in the reading of this document to establish something which might be indicated just as well with a few short declarations as to what is contained in all these minutes?
DR. BERGOLD: I asked this morning, Your Honor, that I be permitted to present my case in connection with my witnesses. I told you this morning, that if I did present it now, it would be torn from the context, and would be much more difficult for you to grasp. Everything that I am now saying will be illuminated by witnesses. That is what I suggested this morning in our discussion. I am quite aware that, at the moment, the reason I am pursuing this course, may not be entirely clear to the Tribunal. It is literally true that I am appearing to stand on one leg, so to speak.
JUDGE MUSSMANO: The presence of the witnesses would not change the fact that you arc reading a document which may be of one hour's duration merely to state negatively that nothing criminal was taken up throughout that long meeting.
DR. BERGOLD: Mr. President, the Prosecution also read a number of passages from this document. When this document is seen totally, these passages will take on a different meaning, not as terrible any more as when they are torn from the context. It was the Prosecution which laid such emphasis on this document. I shall make an effort to shorten my reading of it as much as possible.
THE PRESIDENT: In view of the fact that the Prosecution read from part of this document, the Tribunal is not disposed to prevent your reading the rest of it. What value it has, still remains to be determined.
DR. BERGOLD: I will continue reading about six lines from the begin ning of Milch's speech on Page 30.