Most interesting of all is the last number, namely, the number of employed females. Before the war there were 14,030,000; In May 1942 only 13,900,000. This number has now, 31 May 1943, again reached 14,270,000. This means that 240,000 German women have been willing to work more during the war than in peacetime. Included among these are still very many women working only half a day and very many working for the Wehrmacht. However, there has been a complete failure in the mobilization of German women for work and armament. We need only point out that the USA has 5,500,000 more women working than in peacetime, and that in England the situation is proportionately the same. You must indeed admit that the captured Russian officer is right, to whom opportunity was given to look around in Germany, and who answered, when he was asked what struck him most, that in Russia the war was being carried on by 100 per cent of the population, but in Germany not even by 40 per cent. Effort and work of a propagandistic nature has not been lacking; the fault therefore does not lie here. I believe that the volunteer method simply does not work here. In England an additional 250,000 women are being compulsorily inducted into war production. There, in other words, they have moved gradually from the mild to the compulsory method and the people accept it without question.
KEHRL: In England, of 17,200,000 women between the ages of 14 and 65, 10,400,000 work, which is 61 per cent, work either a whole or half day; in Germany, of 31,000,000, 14,300,000 work, which is 46 per cent. In other words 15 per cent more women are employed in England.
MILCH: Page 4 gives the statistics of the General Army Office on workers draft-deferred as essential; to be sure, as of 1 October 1943, these statistics have probably undergone essential changes in the meantime. The individual annual classes are of interest. Of the annual classes after 1901 only 3,400,000 are still to be regarded as draft-deferred as essential. Of these only circa 1,000,000 are in the armaments industry. Heavy employment of these draft-deferred as essential is to be found first of all in agriculture and also in the crafts, trades, transportation, and administration; and, of course, also in mining.
KEHRL: A rather large part of those employed in administration are employed by the SS, because this includes the police and the Reich Labor Service.
GANZENMUELLER: In the transportation sector all these railroad workers are included who are employed in the occupied eastern and western territories and are to be regarded as soldiers.
MILCH: According to that, the figures should be differentiated.
BACKE: According to tho nearest statistics only 250,000 men of the annual classes 1906 and younger are classified as draft-deferred as essential.
MILCH: I do not want to express any criticism of agriculture but merely elucidate the actual state of affairs. The Wehrmacht says that theoretically all who are mentioned on this page should become soldiers; but in reality a great part of them are already doing military service. Page 5 presents the national economic manpower balance, a very interesting comilation. The status as of 31 May 1939 is reckoned as 100. According to that, agriculture has remained at the same strenght, with 100 per cent. On the other hand, forestry and lumbering have declined as of 31 May 1943 to 81 percent.
BACKE: In part, agriculture does some lumbering work, for instance in the transportation of lumber.
MILCH: Of all the various departments, forestry has given up most for military service. Amazingly enough, armaments and war production have declined from 100 per cent to 89 per cent. At the same time, industry moved from 100 before the war to 91 in the middle of 1942, and to 101 in the middle of 1943. The handicrafts declined very radically, likewise the power-industry. Transportation rose from 100 to 109, because as you know, we have to provide transportation for the whole world.
(GANZENMUELLER: The Russian railways are included in this.)
MICH: Conditions in distribution, that is, trade, foreign trade, banks, and insurance, tho number sank from 100 to 67. Now, does this percentage represent the actual employment in these departments, or should not the personnel still be regarded as to high?
Now come governmental and Wehrmacht administration Government administration sank from 100 to 89, but Wehrmacht administration rose from 100 to 213 %.
BOSCH: This includes the female day labor, but not what belongs to the troops, nor the female anti-air-craft labor. On the other hand, those employed in administration are included. Nurses are not included.
MILCH: In other words, no staff personnel. Before the war the number of staffs was small, and communications ware taken care of mostly by men. During the war the number of staffs increased measurably. Nevertheless this question must be examined again. At the moment enormous transfers of personnel are taking place within the Wehrmacht. Thus the Luftwaffe has so far withdrawn 250,000 men, draft-deferred as essential, from its own supply of 1,800,000, and has mobilized them for infantry service at the fronts. Likewise, enormous numbers of staffs have been dissolved or are in the process of being dissolved. At the moment, 30 per cent of all our staffs are being dissolved. Moreover, there exists a basic order that every part not at the front must give up 25 per cent of its personnel far this purpose. The Ministry has been reduced to the peace-time status:
Anyway, I have always considered a small staff good, and a good one as capable of working. The technical personnel is the heaviest burden on our administrative machinery. That is the armaments engineers and the architects. These are to be turned over, not to the front, but to industry where there is a lack of skilled personnel which can only be filled in this way. In six years if this trend continues; there won't be any more technical personnel at all.
"The next number; which I do not understand, is the medical service which has risen to 118% or 630,000 men. That must include the nurses.
"From the audience: Yes, everyone in the country who is in hospitals, etc.)
"Domestic servants are an interesting point, the number of whom has declined from 1,100,000 before the war only to 1,025,000 or in other words to 90%. It seems to me that this number is much too high, however. This still included 950,000 Germans and only the ridiculous remainder are foreign women.
"Page 6 shows the employment of women and only native German women. The calculation is based on the data of the Reich Statistics Office.
"There follow the figures according to the compilation. The number in Wehrmacht Administration has risen from 105 before the war to 500;000 on 31 May 1943; that is, 476%. Considerable amounts of manpower could still be mobilized from here for the armament industry and agriculture.
"Bosch: In East Prussia the number of those employed is only 110;000; in the Wehrmacht Administration it is 69,000.
"Mich: In transportation the number has risen from 100 to 350%, which is to be explained by the fact that very many men have been replaced by women.
"Kehrl: Despite the fact that work on the Reichsbahn is difficult, a greet number of women, thanks to correct propaganda, have applied for it.
"Ganzenmueller: That includes the women street car conductors. We have about 200,000 in the Reichsbahn itself.
"Mich: There is nothing to say about page 7, I to III. Then page 8 is interesting.
The participation of Wehrmacht manufacture in armaments and war production. Of the 12,200,000 employed in industry, only 65% are engaged in Wehrmacht deliveries, and if the trades only 35% work for the Wehrmacht. If we take both of these together, only 55% in industry and the trades work for armaments. So the Russian was not so wrong wit his 40%.
"Now here is a compilation that shows the manpower balance for the first quarter of 1944; namely, the amounts of manpower and their distribution. Let me ask the GBA to elucidate the balance, so that those with requirements may be able to react to the figures.
"Berk: Let me first make a few remarks on page 3. According to it, the total manpower balance as of 31 May 1939 in 38,580,000 and as of 31 May 1943 is 35,900,000. This includes also those who are self-employed, whereas we otherwise give only the figures of those employed by others. The Field Marshal pointed out that the total number of persons employed has declined considerable, namely by nearly 3,000,000. It is to be noticed in this connection that since 31 May 1939, very considerable withdrawals have taken place, to- it, nearly 10,000,000. The supply of native Germans demonstrates that clearly; 38,280,000 as of 31 May 1939, as against 29, 730,000 now. It must be observed here that the total number of persons employed has not declined to the same extent as the new employment has.
Actually it has, so far as persons employed by others are concerned, increased since the Plenipotentiary General began his activities, namely by circa 3,000,000.
"KEHRL: After one year of the plenipotentiary-general's activities we have an increase of 1,000,000; namely from 34,900,000 to 35,900,000."
THE INTERPRETER: Your Honor, there is a page in the English text that Dr. Bergold is not reading. He is now on Page 30 at the passage marked "Milch".
DR. BERGOLD: I shall read what I did omit. This is on Page 29, in the middle.
"Kehrl: After one year of the Plenipotentiary-General's activities we have had an increase of l,000,000; namely, from 34,900,000 to 35,900,000.
"Bosch: On page 1 are to be found only the allocations by the GBA and the discharges according to the payroll statistics. There are still many goes in this. On page 3 we have the actual state of employment, so that here we find the clear balance of 1,000,000 plus. But it is not more.
"Berk: The manpower balance includes also those who are self-employed, and this is the reason for the erroneous picture. It is noteworthy that despite the considerable withdrawals the number of persons employed by others has increased through the very large accretion from foreign countries. Page 5, female employment, the comparison does not present a clear picture, since the main increase in female employment is not indicated here. The decree on mandatory registration which the GBA issued on 14 January on the basis of the Fuehrer's edict will not become practically effective before the months of June and July. 1,650,000 women have been added. This figure does not appear in the manpower balance. In the meantime some of the women have left, so that at the present moment the numerical balance is not entirely clear. To be sure, we have more precise figures, but I do not have them with me, because I was sent to this conference only at the last minute. As you know, the Fuehrer exercises for biological reasons the greatest restraint in this question of female employment. In addition, in sectors that are not definitely essential for the war, very essential decreases have taken place. The question of the domestic servants is being considered in detail in our office, namely with the fact in view that now, because of the bombing attacks, households have had to crowd together.
At the proper time Gauleiter Sauckel will explain this himself.
Page 1 does not present a clear picture insofar as it is stated in sections 2 and 3 that with the cooperation of the Employment Offices 9,780,000 are employed, and according to the compulsory labor registration statistics, 6,820,000 have been discharged, so that an excess of now employment of theoretically 2,960,000 has been calculated. Now, the Employment Offices do not play a part in every individual hiring or firing. Thus, for example, farm hands are taken on today and leave tomorrow. And again the comparison of these figures does not provide an unobjectionable picture of what really happens. Many persons are also transferred and discharged several times, for example the unloaders of freight, and they probably appear in these figures several times.
"Wilch: What I have said should not be construed as a criticism of the GBA's work; on the contrary, we are all grateful for what has been done. I consider the figures, incomplete as they may be, a great step forward in our discussions. The earlier statistics were even less precise and fewer in number, and because of this, criticism was expressed that was not based on facts.
"Our efforts are directed, in joint conferences with the GBA, toward limiting our demands to what is really necessary, in order to make it easier for the GBA, and indeed to make it possible at all, to fulfill them."
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Bergold, may I interrupt please? This is a very long document.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: What do you hope it will prove?
DR. BERGOLD: I wish to prove through this, the way in which this very important work was carried out at these meetings. It has been established that the numbers are not correct because they did not include the fluctuations. This has a bearing on the question of whether or not any such enslavement would be carried on here. The Prosecution presented a pretty one-sided picture of the activity of the Defendant. We can achieve a clear picture only if we view the total picture of his activities. If individual pages are quoted, we cannot. These minutes demonstrate how these figures were tossed back and forth. I wish to establish, your Honors, that you must be presented with a complete picture of the manner in which these meetings functioned. These meetings were simply discussions and no more.
THE PRESIDENT: It is your point that even if forced labor were discussed, many other things were discussed at greater length?
DR. BERGOLD: No. The total question of employment for Germany was discussed, not simply the employment of foreign labor. The employment of German labor was discussed to a much greater extent.
THE PRESIDENT: That is the point which I am making. Even though forced labor was discussed, it was only a part of the total problem of labor from all sources?
DR. BERGOLD: One moment please; you will see from these minutes that these gentlemen were not concerned with forcing these people to work, but singly in finding out how many were needed and where they could be found. I shall later deal with the question of the extent to which the defendant was aware of whether or not they were brought in under compulsion. As far as speaking of foreign workers, they simply discussed what was absolutely necessary and what is not; there was no discussion of compulsory labor.
THE PRESIDENT: That is a good deal like claiming that two men who are planning to commit a robbery, they also discussed philosophy. Incidental subjects could be discussed which do not seen to be of any interest. The only question is whether they discussed anything criminal.
DR. BERGOLD: You cannot decide whether it was a crime unless you have the total picture of the discussion. Then you can see what position the discussion of criminal activity occupied. The way this matter was presented by the prosecution was completely incorrect.
JUDGE MUSSMANO: If I choose certain things from the total picture, I can create almost any impression I would like to create?
THE PRESIDENT: It is not a question of contents; it is a question of degree or proportion. Is that what you mean?
DR. BERGOLD: Your Honors, to be sure, but I wish to point out of what slight importance those pages that the Prosecution emphasized occupied as a whole. They did not spend time discussing how they could compel people to work for them; but they said if they could not get along with the Germans solely, then they would make use of foreigners.
JUDGE MUSSMANO: You are referring to one particular meeting. You are saying that at this particular meeting, the subject of slave labor was given very little prominence. That is one meeting. Do you intend to argue that this meeting is a pattern and typical of all meetings? Are you saying that this meeting is typical of all meetings?
DR. BERGQLD: Yes. It is a typical example of all such meetings; only at a very few of these meetings did they discuss the employment of forced labor. I believe only two in tote. The second was the other one which we spoke of this morning in the year 1944.
THE PRESIDENT: Does the fact that an alleged criminal plan was only a small part of the total plan, make it any less criminal?
DR. BERGOLD: Mr. President, I wish to prove that there was no discussion of any criminal plan. They simply said, "We will get so and so many forces from Sauckel and we shall distribute then."
That is all that was said. It was simply a question of allocating the forces that were provided by Sauckel.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal is supposed to give you every reasonable latitude. Probably you should be allowed to read the rest of this document. The inference to be drawn from it is not altogether persuasive.
JUDGE MUSSMANO: Are you using up a great deal of time in the reading of this document to establish something which might be indicated just as well with a few short declarations as to what is contained in all these minutes?
DR. BERGOLD: I asked this morning, Your Honor, that I be permitted to present my case in connection with my witnesses. I told you this morning, that if I did present it now, it would be torn from the context, and would be much more difficult for you to grasp. Everything that I am now saying will be illuminated by witnesses. That is what I suggested this morning in our discussion. I am quite aware that, at the moment, the reason I am pursuing this course, may not be entirely clear to the Tribunal. It is literally true that I am appearing to stand on one leg, so to speak.
JUDGE MUSSMANO: The presence of the witnesses would not change the fact that you arc reading a document which may be of one hour's duration merely to state negatively that nothing criminal was taken up throughout that long meeting.
DR. BERGOLD: Mr. President, the Prosecution also read a number of passages from this document. When this document is seen totally, these passages will take on a different meaning, not as terrible any more as when they are torn from the context. It was the Prosecution which laid such emphasis on this document. I shall make an effort to shorten my reading of it as much as possible.
THE PRESIDENT: In view of the fact that the Prosecution read from part of this document, the Tribunal is not disposed to prevent your reading the rest of it. What value it has, still remains to be determined.
DR. BERGOLD: I will continue reading about six lines from the begin ning of Milch's speech on Page 30.
"Our efforts are directed, in joint conferences with the GBA, toward limiting our demands to what is really necessary, in order to make it easier for the GBA, and indeed to make it possible at all to fulfill them. We of the Central Planning cannot do that at all."
This alone, gentlemen, proves if I nay make a remark here that these men got together and said it was impossible to get an accurate estimate of the manpower needs by sampling a few large concerns; you can see with what sense of responsibility this was done. You also see from this statement that the recruitment and provision of these workers was not a matter to be taken up by the Central Planning but exclusively by GBA.
"It is regrettable that the figures are drawn up as of 31 May, and in certain fields, e.g. female employment, they present a false picture. When we receive the figures for 31 May 1944, the total number of female workers will again decline. We for our part, can only check on the figures through sample tests of individual large concerns. We did this in the Junkers-Konzern and have ascertained that it has not even been able to keep the women it had before the war. In other concerns, on the other hand, the number of women increased. Local conditions determine this to some extent. Actually, however, the number of women who are today available for the war economy is not up to the level of what other countries are accomplishing and what we also must accomplish. There are still reserves which Sauckel could still activate. I am thinking particularly of soldiers' wives, who receive an allotment and consequently are not interested in going to work. That is particularly relevant in agriculture."
Gentlemen, that proves that the large numbers Sauckel always claimed, and which were the basis for the judgment on slave labor, were not correct numbers. The Central Planning has ascertained that these numbers were fallacious.
I now turn to Page 31, your Honor.
"MILCH: There is still another problem. Very many bombed out and evacuated women have streamed to country towns, and the question of how they can be drawn into employment has also not yet been settled. The relations between the evacuees and their hosts would be measurably improved if the country people see that the evacuees in the country are not just walking around in fur coats and lipstick, but are also doing something.
No national community spirit will develop from the situation as it is now."
I read that simply so you can see that Milch was concerned with how many Germans they could employ before they employed foreign labor. Their point of departure was not slave labor, but simply some way of meeting the extreme necessity for workers. He also tried, first of all, to find German workers to meet the requirements.
Now I will turn to Page 33 of the English document.
"I don't think that makes any sense. Sixty thousand foreigners, who always entered agriculture seasonally, could be deducted from the 400,000. We should really have the people by the middle of March because otherwise the farmers won't plant potatoes if they don't know whether or not the potatoes will later be grubbed up and gathered. In the first quarter, we shall get back 200,000 men. But we have an agreement with forestry that certain contingents shall remain there longer so far as we don't need the people. So until 31 March we need 200,000 men. In other words, half of our requirement."
Your Honors, you see foreign workers were always employed in Germany. Sixty thousand came into agriculture alone. This proves that the famous statistics of Sauckel, to which the Prosecution referred, namely that 200,000 or so were compelled to work, were an error. Sixty thousand always came to Germany voluntarily to work in agriculture. They were foreign workers.
I continue reading:
"KEHRL: In our presentation of the figures we took our point of departure from the fact that in the first quarter the needs were covered by the people who were returning, so that, if agriculture gets back the 200,000 men and also the seasonal workers, there would be a need for the entire year of 150,000 men.
"BERK: So far as the Hungarians are concerned, other factors play a role. Previously they always arrived, so that we can count on their returning now as well in the same numbers. It is a question of foreign exchange and money. The exchange conditions in the Southeastern region are such that they offer no inducement for foreign workers to come to the Reich. Gauleiter Sauckel has brought up this question with Ribbentrop and asked him to examine the possibility of introducing a more favorable rate of exchange for those sending their wages home. This has not yet been settled."
Your Honors, it was always said, Hungarians wore brought to Germany under compulsion. Here you can see that they came voluntarily. They were expected. There was only one difficulty, namely, how could they send their wages back to Hungary. That was the problem mentioned here. It occurred to no one that there should be compulsory or slave labor. All of this is to be seen from these pages I am reading in this document.
I will read now from Page 16 of the original document, and Page 34 of the English copy. I will leave out the first two paragraphs.
"WAEGER: We have an immediate need of 544,000 men. This need was not just arrived at random, but was determined in agreement with the Employment Offices and armaments offices. Actually, we have received so far only an allotment in the month of January of 13,500 men." Your Honors, you can see from that, that the high numbers which are always mentioned like 4 million etc. etc. were nothing but wishful thinking. "We had agreed with the GBA to place the red cards on another basis. There is no point in handing out 200 red cards when it is clear from the start that they cannot be filled. We had agreed on 27,000 red cards, which were given out for the month of January. But actually, only 13,500 came in for armaments. It is, of course, intolerable for the armaments industry if only half the red cards are covered. In addition, there is the following: according to the statements of the GBA a total of 160,000 have been assigned to industrial war production; but actually we have received only 13,500."
Again, Your Honor, you see what sort of numbers are being dealt with. They are purely fictitious numbers. Of course, if you add all these numbers together, you arrive at a large number. That figure is irrelevant.
"What is the reason for this? In my opinion, the reason is that all the transfers which the Ringe and committees made with us are designated by the GBA as actual allotments. I cannot accept this under my circumstances. That is not an allotment, but a transfer. I can only count on the labor forces which are actually newly allotted to me, either, as previously, the allotment of 100,000 men who are lent to us for a quarter year by agriculture, or in some other way-- men, in other words, who do not belong in the armaments sector. But if transfers take place from one armaments sector to another, that is never an allotment. I should be thankful if the GBA could see to it that a clear distinction is drawn here; for above all it must make a strange impression when the higher offices hear about it, to say; you received an allotment of 160,000 men, where as in reality, we only received 13,500. That would lead to our being told; you are completely saturated with workers in the armament industry and don't know what to do with your manpower. Your demands are altogether exaggerated. Moreover, the normal fluctuation has so far not been reduced. We calculate it at 200,000 men per month. That is an established concept, which so far has not been questioned.
"MILCH: They are included in the 544,000?
"WAEGER: Yes.
"BERK: Is that for the quarter year?
"WAEGER: No, right away.
"KEHRL: Assuming that get the 544,000 tomorrow morning, would you then need some more by 1 April?
"WAEGER: These are my immediate requirements, which I can make accommodate in February right away. It has been objected that if I got the 544,000 men, I could not accommodate them. But that is not true; we could take care of them somehow. The main thing is that I get them. But I am convinced that I shall not. I must report my requirements of men as they actually are, and, as I said, the number 544,000 was worked out in close cooperation with the Employment Offices.
"KEHRL: If we should say, for the sake of argument, that we were in a position to provide 544,000 men tomorrow morning, and you distribute them in accordance with the demands in question, what needs would there still be in your opinion, before 1 April; or would the requirements then have been covered until 1 April; it will still be three weeks, as you know, before they are assigned?
"WAEGER: By no means. There remain only the month of March and the rest of February. I believe that by that time I shall need at least that many again. The monthly fluctuation alone is 200,000, which has to be covered somehow. Then the labor forces for agriculture disappear again, 100,000 men whom we received."
Your Honors, you can see here how numbers were always dealt with, but really without any sound foundation for the manipulation of the numbers. The information was that it might be; however in reality, it was not.
I continue on Page 19 of the original, but still on Page 35 of the English copy.
"BERK: I must take issue with what General Waeger has said. The immediate requirement of 540,000 is correct. Then a procedure for ascertaining the requirements was agreed on between us and the armaments Ministry, and these are figures which are jointly ascertained. But so far as the statements regarding the allotment on only 35,000 labor forces in January are concerned, it is impossible to regard only the newly assigned manpower as allotment. Otherwise, There should we be? You would have to say in each case: General, for practical purposes the 544,000 can only be covered by new manpower, or at least by manpower that comes from other sectors, by combing out commerce, etc. To be sure, a lack arises in another place. That is to be attributed, among other things, to the lack of raw materials, to a change in program, and to shifts within the industry from one sector to another. Obviously this process draws the people along with it. But that must indubitably be regarded as an allotment. I must here seriously dispute the figure 13,500."
You can see again such a number of workers were to be derived from German industry.
"MILCH: You are absolutely right with the word "allotment." The other is additional requirements. That is the number that Waeger wants, labor stocks, or whatever you want to call it. If we discriminate between the two, we are perfectly agreed. The allotments are a coverage of lacks that arises somewhere or other, though, to be sure, this coverage creates a now lack somewhere else. So far as that occurs within armaments itself, it must in turn be covered by allotments somehow. What we want to be able to say is: I need a labor stock of 540,000, and in addition, for the quarter, replacements for the normal fluctuation, which is given as 200,000 per month.
"WAEGER: The labor forces that have to be returned to agriculture, which disappear because their contracts are up.
"MILCH: Only that art is to be called fluctuation which actually leaves the armament sector as a whole, because of death, induction, termination of contracts with foreigners, etc.
"BERK: You think, Field Marshal, that these who change over from armaments to other sectors must also be considered as part of fluctuation?
"MILCH: As actual loss! The word "fluctuation includes so many different processes that they cannot be covered by one word. General Waeger says: What you allot to me in this manner is not an increase for me; it is transferred from Plant A to Plant B and remains within my sector as a whole. But this too, is a sort of fluctuation. In the second place, I lose men because they are drafted, etc. These men should also be replaced. I believe that, the 200,000 men only come under the concept "fluctuation," which was my second concept, not under the first, from Plant A to Plant B. Your allotments, Landrat, consist first of all in those who transfer from Plant A to Plant B, and secondly in those who leave the armaments sector altogether, either by separation from the industry altogether or by transferring to entirely different economic sectors. Over and above this, General Waeger says, he has new requirements, which he estimates at 544,000. In this way such enormous figures come about." 552 Here the large numbers spoken about are simply bookkeeping numbers.
No one at the meeting understands how they could be accrued.
WAEGER: The monthly fluctuation is actually included in the 544,000. But this is the amount which we can absorb in this month immediately, if they are assigned to us by the Central Planning."
I will break off here and go to the bottom of Page 37.
"MILCH: Could not the Planning Office, the GBA, and you, General Waeger, clarify this question of the concepts that we must coin here, in order to make the situation clear, so that we can readily see what "allotment" is or "additional requirements" or "labor stocks" or "fluctuation," etc.? If that is clarified, we have a firm basis for our discussions. I recall the conference with the Reich Marshal on the Obersalzberg, at which several ministers were present and which broke down and came to nothing because of such want of clearness. The statistics would have to be drawn up so as to show that such and such is coverage of missing labor supplies, and such and such is new labor stocks.
"BERK: Gauleiter Sauckel was induced by that well-known conference on the Obersalzberg to draw up statistics, beginning with 1 January, which precisely show the reasons for the fluctuation and are perfectly clearly broken down as to death, incapacitation, termination of contract, breach of contract, transfer, induction, etc.
"WILCH: The statistics would have to include the loafers, too.
"BERK: It will not be possible to determine that statistically." The word "fluctuate" is being brought in without any regard to the slacker. The word "slacker" was simply mentioned, and they said something had to be done about that. Then the matter was dropped. In other words, nothing happened.
DR. BERGOLD: They said something will have to be done about this, and the matter was dropped. In other words, nothing happened at all.
"MILCH: A list of these slackers should be given to Himmler. He would make them work all right. This is very important from the point of view of the people's education, and besides, it has an intimidating effect on others who would like to slack also.
BERK: This point also will be cleared up by the statistics, which by the way, are already being kept, and which are adjusted with the Central Committee and the competent agency.
KEHRL: By this improvement of the basic figures is restricted only to the decreases. A corresponding method should also be chosen for the allotments. I could imagine that actually figures and concepts are arrived at which all speak the same language.
MILCH: It is important that these clear concepts be established, not only for us but also to the gentlemen higher up. I want to tear out by the roots the fluctuation, which in part is natural and in part bad. But we can only do that when we have absolutely clear conditions and figures. Therefore, my request is to consider loafing in the same way as illness, etc."
You see, the purpose of that question of this treaty was simply to have a true conception of the statistics, and it makes a striking or shocking statement of what had to be put on it, in order to find some way of encumbering the records statistically. Continuing:
"Gauleiter Sauckel is justly proud that his Gau Thuringia has a very low sickness rate. Sauckel had already worked on that in peacetime, and educated the people there accordingly. In other Gaus this question did not receive such attention. We must differentiate between Germans and foreigners, men and women. The reasons for the higher sickness rate should be examined. Perhaps the food supply has an unfavorable effect. In other localities perhaps the doctors are too lenient. They must receive the necessary instructions. In other places education through propaganda is necessary, so that the importance of this work is always demonstrated to the people. The Propaganda Ministry can help us especially here, and has already achieved great results wherever it took a hand."
The problem again is how he can keep the requirements at an economic level, and how can these people be fed, and so on.
I'll skip again. Page 35 of the original, which is page 43 of the English Document Book:
"ALPERS: Especially in the rural districts we again and again experience the fact that in basic production, in agriculture and forestry, we are lacking everything. We have no boots for our people in the mountains. Without these boots the people are not in a position to work. On the other hand one sees repeatedly that large organizations, the Wehrmacht, Labor Service, OT, etc., are equipped with everything. We have no support in any way. I only wish to remind you that at Christmas for the first time the farmers received a liquor ration.
MILCH: That is the same even in armaments. In one and the same plant, if a man works on armor he continually receives food packages; if he does twice as much work an airplanes, he receives nothing at all. What Hayler and Alpers say is absolutely correct. Such wishes are justified. All these questions should be compiled and brought to a reasonable denominator."
Your Honor may concede that the defendant Milch tried again and again to do the very best he could for the workers. He is not a strain -- or strict slave driver.
THE PRESIDENT: We will take a short recess, Dr. Bergold.
THE MARSHAL: This Tribunal will recess fifteen minutes.
(Recess)
DR. BERGOLD: If it please the tribunal, I continue on page 47 of the original, page 43 of the English document book:
"Milch: That does not prevent us from combining all these matters here. The question of what demands can later be filled depends on what can be produced at all. Your work here is the most difficult, namely, the procurement of the people. That is more difficult that the distribution later on. If one knows what he gets, then he knows also what he can distribute. These various things must be regulated from a central viewpoint. We need everything. We can not wage a war without armament, nor without soldiers. So along that line, an adjustment has to be made later in accordance with the Fuehrer Order. We do not need to do that today."
Gentlemen, this shows you the meaning of the meeting. One wanted to determine what it looked like. It all depended on what was really coming up. This was talk back and forth, but no decisions were taken. There was only an attempt to have a clarification so as to know in one's own mind and to make the decision as to what the situation was like.
I then continue on the following page, Page 48 of tho original, Page 45 of the English document book:
"Doubts have already been expressed that the high requirements announced can be covered in that amount. Before I give you a survey of the quota which can be expected in the first quarter, perhaps also in the entire year, I ask you to permit me to present our plans briefly. The starting point for it was a conference with the Fuehrer on 4 January 1944. In this conference the demands were established at a total of 4,050,000. It was determined as fellows:--"
Your Honors, that is the figure which is contained in the compilations that we saw in the document shown in the photostatic copy.
"It was determined as follows:
"2,500,000 were intended for the maintenance of the employment stability and for covering the fluctuations. 1,300,000 was given by Reich Minister Speer as the requirement of armaments. This amounts to 3,800,000. 250,000 are expected by the Fuehrer for industrial relocation and for the construction of air raid shelters and air raid protection measures. This amounts to a total of 4,050,000. This figure is also established in the transcript which Reich Minister Lammers has sent to the departments concerned."