We too should like that very much. Up to now, however, it has not been possible that the GL get them. He has had no influence at all on it. In our office we have no undivided technic, but the technic has been neglected all along the line, and it has not been possible to do that as yet. The question must be discussed with the Quartermaster-General. These I see considerable difficulties." That is what he wanted.
On page 54 of the German original:
"Saur: Gentlemen, today we are taking up again the discussion of problems in a range that I consider too extensive. he are having here an administrative discussion. It is the business of the staff member for labor deployment to prepare and present such problems. It is a shame that we have to make suggestions to the staff member for labor, instead of his doing it on his own initiative."
You can see by this record they don't only have various decisions but a lot of talk which had no bearing to those particular meetings. Then I shall proceed to the next exhibit, that is, NOKW no. 365. This will become Exhibit No. 15. This is the Jaegerstab Discussion on 12 April 1944. That is the page following the one I just read. I shall now read shortly a report of the Jaegerstab Discussion, presided over by Hauptdienstleiter Saur, and later on by Fieldnarshal Milch. On 12 April 1944, page 51 of the original, the last line.
"Saur: Please tell this to Schmelter. We are in an incrediable situation as a result of lack of man-power. Here we are in the middle of the month already, and the 10,000 people distributed according to red slips have not arrived yet. A way must be found to assure priority for red slip matters over all other allocations. Tell Herr Schmelter to contact Gauleiter Sauckel still today. Going further than t at, the discontinuation, transfer or concentration of every other type of production must be brought about by us at once.
"Schaaf: The 4,000 people from Kahla".
That proves that the great figures which Saur mentioned all the time were not fulfilled, not even 10,000 people to be delivered. This is only on paper, that is all.
I shall now skip a few sentences.
"Lance: Schmelter's people complain particularly because they have no means of making pressure demands to Sauckel which will also be complied with."
This proves the Jaegerstab did not have any influence on Sauckel.
"Saur: Fialdmarchal, the best thing would be for you to approach Sauckel yourself since he is the man in charge of labor assignment.
"Milch: I shall tell him that the 10,000 red slips were not covered."
That is all Milch agrees to. He tells Sauckel he did not keep his promise. I shall now proceed to the following page. It is Exhibit NOKW 334. This will become Exhibit Number 16. This is the Jaegerstab Discussion of the 25th of April, 1944. This page 65.
"Shorthand Report on Jaegerstab Discussion on the 25th of April, 1944, presided over by Fieldmarshal Milch."
"Herr Saur does not appear until towards the end of the meeting.
"Wegener: I have a question for Schelter: Has the question of the transfer of West European workers been settled?"
I would like to say who Schmelter was. He was with the Rearmament Ministry and will be called as a witness.
"Werner: On this I can say that especially for Bavarian Motor Works, matters are particularly difficult because we can transfer only Russians and concentration camp inmates, and the staff used for supervision consists mostly of Belgians and Frenchmen."
Your Honors, these people were not abused because, naturally, they were allies, that is, they were allies in their hearts.
I shall now proceed to the following page.
"Kreutz: Mueller declared at one time, and he believed he could do it, the that he would try and shift a part of the head personnel within the concern.
"Schaede: If you bring the French key personnel to Lorraine I can g guarantee you that they would have fun away within the shortest possible time. That must be told to the firm. Even now they do not return from their vacation."
Your Honors, if foreign workers can have vacations, then, of course, you cannot say they were slaves. They were free people. According to their contract, they were entitled to their vacation.
"Milch: It will work only if were place these people into barracks. It is true we cannot treat them as prisoners of war; the outward appearance must be different, but in actual practice that is just what it must be.
"Schaeder: I merely wanted to suggest to the firms to take along as few French people as possible so that they would not lose them altogether but would rather follow the system of Mueller.
"Milch: Exactly. And if then there are still some left one can say that this will be limited in terms of time, perhaps to several months, and that in return certain advantages will be granted to them because they will be subject to certain deprivation of their freedom."
Your Honors, the Prosecution read passages of this. He spoke about putting them in barracks. That was just a precautionary measure. Milch then mentioned that it was only a limited measure, and that it should be discussed with the people. He thought they should get certain privileges. I can say to someone who is free, that I will put him in barracks and say that he will be free or that he will have certain other privileges. He agrees to that. That is not a matter of slave treatment.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Bergold, this has reference to the French workers only, does it now?
DR.BERGOLD: Yes, My Lord. I can always prove only part of that I shall now proceed.
I want to skip a few statements on this page. I shall proceed to the following page where Milch explains his attitude a little more clearly. I refer to Page 67 of Your Honors' Document Book.
"Milch: As early as today at noon, we may face the situation that BMWAllach is completely destroyed and that we have to get out. Then we cannot deal with things such as 200 or 300 French people who cannot come to Lorraine. That must be explained to the Fuehrer once more. Otherwise, I see no possibility for carrying through our assignment.
"Personally, I am firmly convinced after the conversations with the Fuehrer that he will then consent provided it is being done in a sensible way. The people must not sit together with the population and they must not be able to conspire. Nor should they have sufficient freedom of movement to be able to pass the green border line. Both of these things must be prevented.
"In compensation for these restrictions we can, on the other hand, give these people something and make them happy, be it even with cigarettes only."
The next Exhibit is Speer Exhibit Number 34. This will become Exhibit Number 17 in my Document Book. I shall give one copy to the Secretary General. It is a certified copy of the exhibit which was introduced at the case before the International Military Tribunal by the Defendant Speer. It reads as follows:
"The Fuehrer "Fuehrer's Headquarters "21 April 1944 "To the Reich Minister for Armaments and bar Production and Head of the Todt Organization, Reich Minister Speer.
"I delegate Ministerialdirektor Dorsch, Chief of the Todt Central Office, to carry out the erection of the 6 fighter production buildings ordered by me, while retaining his other functions in your sphere of work.
"You are to be responsible for taking care of all prerequisites necessary for the speedy erection of these buildings and you are particularly to effect the best possible coordination with the other war essential buildings, if necessary referring to me for a decision.
"Adolf Hitler."
This copy was certified by D.I.W. Goode, Captain and George N. Garrett, 2nd Lieutenant, Infantry.
This proves that the Fuehrer himself ordered those large construction works, the execution of which is charged to the Defendant.
Although I mentioned before that the Jaegerstab was of the opinion that it could only build one factory, the order was given by Hitler to build six. That was a.n impossible number. He delegated this duty to Mr. Dorsch. That man had his orders from the Fuehrer and not from the Jaegerstab, which, of course, was no longer responsible for his activities.
I shall now proceed to the next exhibit number. It is NOKW 389. This will become Exhibit 18. This is the Jaegerstab, Fighter Staff Conference on 2 May 1944 at the Reich Air Ministry. This is page 69 of Your Honors' Document Book. This is part of the statement made by Milch.
"Milch: First of all, I should like to express our thanks and recognition for the April results to all the gentlemen of the Jaegerstab, the the members of our Central Committees and the Industrial Council, the gentlemen of the Office of the GL and our industries.
I think Herr Saur has already said the same. I would like to mention Herr Saur personally, as we owe a tremendous amount to his particular initiative and energy."
This statement will be understood when a witness will be interrogated. They have talked about the importance of the Witness Saur and the Defendant Milch; that is to prove that the leading man in the Jaegerstab was Mr. Saur.
The next passage refers to the exhibit introduced by the Prosecution concerning sabotage in an air armament factory where Russians started a fire and thus caused a revolution. Because of this revolution, people were shot, which of course is a process which would lead to death in every other country. When prisoners of war strike, it leads to death. The Prosecution had these passages.
"Schaeder: Apart from enemy action, there is one very unpleasant matter.
"Milch: The case is not to be considered as typical, but it is bitter."
This shows that Milch did not draw his own conclusion like Mr. Saur did and that particularly referred to what was introduced by the Prosecution. He said this was a single case and that it does not have to be mentioned here.
I shall now come to the following Exhibit which is NOKW 362. It will become Exhibit Number 19. It is on Page 70, Your Honors. This is the Jaegerstab Conference of the 2nd and 3rd of May, 1944.
That is the next page. This concerns a Fighter Staff Conference about the 5th trip of "Operation Hubertus." This trip was also introduced by the Prosecution and the views of these workers in their particular ore works was mentioned there.
Milch was not present there. He did participate in the trip; however, he did not participate in all the conferences. I shall now read on Page 107.
"Milch: Now I should like to suggest that we should go on to our separate committees according to plan. We will meet here again at 2015 (or 8:15) for our final discussion."
That follows the single discussions which were introduced by the prosecution where Milch was not present. Now on Page 108:
"Saur: Now for the final discussions."
On Page 115: "Saur: Field Marshal, the individual conferences arc over.
"Milch: Gauleiter! Gentlemen! I would like to thank you for having pieced yourselves at our disposal here and hope that you will support our work. I close with the German salute."
This shows that Milch only arrived at the end.
We will now proceed to the following exhibit, which is OKW-1390. This will become Exhibit No. 20, Page 17 of Your Honors' book, concerning the Fighter Staff Conference on the 4th of May 1944. That is on the following page. This again concerns that revolution which was started by the Russians.
"Shorthand Minutes of the Fighter Staff Conference of the 4th of May 1944"; on pages 13 and. 14 of the original.
"Milch: Has the Erla question been cleared up, what is really smashed up there?
"Lange: I have the report here. It only means a fortnight's interruption. Then everything will be running again. The report says that no surfaces have been lost. Only the single parts are burnt.
"Saur: That must be closely investigated. In view of the weakness of the leadership at Erla, either the Central Committee or the Special Committee will have to clarify the situation.
"Lange: The report is of general significance. The measures worked well because a bigger disaster was prevented. The Russians wanted to start this fire so as to kill the guards.
Then they wanted to go to the village and start a massacre. It's rather similar to what was established at Conradi where the 1,000 Russian officers are. As a result, I had a search made and we took everything away from the Russians. But it is necessary that all the camps are thoroughly searched.
"Saur: Who made the report?
"Lange: Works delegate Ruodel."
Page 14: "Milch: I do not quite understand. Has the material for 200 surfaces been completely lost; i.e. have 200 surfaces been put out of action because of this affair?"
This is a very serious result where there were lots of plans to kill the guards and. to cause a massacre in the village; thereupon, if they should want to make an example out of them and some of the prisoners were shot, this is nothing in particular, and I think that would happen in any other country where PW's would commit such revolt.
I shall now proceed to the following exhibit number, and shall point out that Milch had nothing to do with that matter. Of course, that will come out when I interrogate him. Exhibit Ho. NOKW-443. This is Exhibit Ho. 21, concerning the Fighter Staff Conference of the 5th of May 1544 and it is on Page 73 of Your Honors' Document Book. It's on the following page of the one we just read.
"Stenographic minutes of the Fighter Staff Conference, on Friday, 5 lay 1944.
"Schmelter: I was supposed to report yet on the employment of labor in the penal institutions. The Minister of Justice has not yet forwarded the complete list of workers available in the penal institutions. I have made another inquiry. Dr. Schmelter has appointed Attorney Marl as special official in charge. He is the liaison to the Reich Ministry of Justice."
I shall now skip a few sentences and shall proceed where Hayno speaks:
"Such conversations have taken place. They do not get us anywhere. The thing we need is a listing of all localities showing now large a number of prisoners are yet available there. When we must see whether they are required there.
Herr Schmelter planned to concentrate then professional workers in those spots. There are only two to three percent professional workers in all among all prisoners. That is too little."
Your Honors, in all vicilized. countries, also in Germany, penal prisoners have to work. How one carries on such a penal plan was carried out in Germany where the concentration camp inmates worked late in Germany. This happened within the frame of the law which existed in Germany. There was nothing in particular. This work of concentration camp inmates cannot he considered slave work.
I shall now proceed to the following exhibit, No. NOKW-361, which will become Exhibit Ho. 22. It's the Fighter Staff Conference of the 8th to 10th of Hay 1944. This is on Page 74 of Your Honors' Document Book.
"Stenographic Minutes on the 6th Trip of the 'Undertaking Hubertus' from 8 to 10 May 1944." This is from Page 15 of the original.
"Milch: When shortly thereafter His Highness, the Regent, made his visit to Headquarters, the Fuehrer asked me to come to see him at a very late hour at night and ordered me to establish now immediate contacts with the Hungarian Government in order to fortify on the broadest possible basis the opportunity which now exists to an even greater extent to expand and to secure the capacity of Hungarian armament too for the common aims in the field of aviation."
Your Honors, the prosecution also presented this speech and the Prosecution thought that one could conclude that this was slave labor. This passage, however, shows that this was an agreement between the German and the Hungarian Governments which at the time was the legal government, and ordered to expand that particular armament of Hungary. What the Prosecution has introduced docs not prove that this is slave labor.
I shall now proceed to the next document, NOKW-336. This will become Exhibit No. 23. This is the Jaegerstab Conference of Friday, the 26th of Hay 1944. (Minister Speer and Field Marshal Milch entering.)
"Milch: I welcome our Minister Speer for the first time in the circle of the Fighter Staff and would like to express my special happiness and at the same time yours that you, dear Speer, are again with us, well, cheerful and in the old creative- spirit.
"This machinery, created by your orders, accomplished excellent things in the three months of its existence. It has made special efforts to bring the production of fighters and all that goes with them to a high level." This proves that the Fighter Staff apparatus was built by Speer, so to say.
I shall now proceed to Page 75 of the original. There seems to be a mistake made by my secretary. The name of the person speaking was omitted here. It is Mr. Schmelter who is speaking.
"The reports of the board of examiners show that a larger number could be deducted from the plants belonging to the Luftwaffe if one succeeds to establish joint direction for the department of plane constructions, the technical plant groups and companies.
"Field Marshal Misch: The quarter-master-general to whom all are subordinated. No one is subordinate to me."
Your Honors, I would like to mention here that these records here have some very funny expressions. It should read: "Therefore, it was impossible to get more workers." The next sentence will show that where it says that, "To deduct workers would only be possible if there was one leadership." Therefore, it should say, "Under three leaderships it is impossible; under one leadership it is possible." Therefore if we are to prove that these records contain millions of mistakes, it cannot be proven.
I shall now continue to the next page--the continuation of the age which I shall introduce. It is a continuation of he Prosecution's Exhibit where the defendant is charged that he had to see it that he foreign laborers also had to work for 32 hours and that he mentioned that they were shirking. This on only be understood, however, if were the whole thing. I would like to add the following part which as omitted by the Prosecution. Schmelter mentions of those people who are working around, here, 'Probably they are working in factories where they don't have to work for 72 hours.
"Milch: Then one can equalize. Isn't it possible, to avoid injus tice toward our workers, to have our other plants work too, not all of them for 72 hours, but perhaps up to 64 hours?
That should suffice if all would do it.
"Schmelter: I prepared already for the conference on the chiefs of the various offices, the suggestion that working hours in civilian production plants working only 48 hours.
"Field Marshal Milch: Then one Can equalize and we need not work all the time for 72 hours."
Milch wanted to prove the contrary. He wanted to read that not all the workers had to work for less than 72 hours; in other words, it was not an inhumane proposition, but a humane one, and it induced him to do the contrary which was done by the fact that the Prosecution omitted this latter part.
I shall now proceed to the following exhibit number. It is NOKW-359, which will become Exhibit No. 24, concerning the Fighter Staff of the 27th of June 1944, and it is on page 77 of Your Honors' Document Book, the following page after the one I just read. This refers to an exhibit number of the prosecution where it is mentioned if the Anglo-American terror fliers should not be put to work and Schmelter wanted that. However, I wish to mention the fact that Milch was not present at that particular conference so that he had nothing to do with it. However, I will tell you why the general attitude of Milch is important for the German Government. I shall now read the last part of this page.
"Schmelter: There is one little point I have still to mention. Once I pointed out that we have a considerable number of English and American terror aviators in Luftwaffe camps who are not to be employed."
Your Honors, in Germany Englishmen and Americans were not used for work. They were absolutely unemployed in German camps. In other words, it is not true that Milch and all the other defendants wanted slave laborers at any price; they differentiated between the two, and I shall prove during the examination of Milch that among the Englishmen and the Americans and the French and the Russians there were exceptions, and I shall prove why they had differences among the four. In short, we had no contact with the Russians. The French were released prisoners of war who had been released only on the condition that they would work.
I shall now proceed to a now exhibit number. This is a report of General George C. Marshall, concerning the warfare of the United states of America from 1 June 1943 to 1945. This will become Exhibit Number 25. This report which is in the hands of the American Government. I would like to have judicial notice taken of this. The report is on Page 11 of my document book. On page 11 we have the title page of this report, "Diennial Report of General George C. Marshall, Chief of Staff of the United States Army, July 1, 1943 to June 30 1945, to tho Secretary of Mar."
"The country had bonefitted from the utilization of the labor of these prisoners of war. Our critical manpower shortage had been relieved by 62,075 prisoner working days; the U.S. Treasury had been enriched by 35,196,800 paid by private contractors for this labor. In addition, their use on military installations had an estimated value of $108,825,469."
Your Honors, I am proving with that that even the United States used prisoners of war on military installations.
I shall now proceed to the following exhibit number. This is the house rules for the prisoners detained in the the Nuremberg Palace of Justice.
This will become Exhibit No. 26. It is on Page 13 of Your Honors' Document Book. I would like to introduce this exhibit because a statement made by Milch in the Jaegerstab was introduced by the Prosecution wherein 587A Milch explained that where Italians try to escape from the transports they should be shot at without 587B warning.
These Italians were military internees. That is, they were the sort of soldiers who were captured by the German army who had turned against the German Wehrmacht and against the Fascist regime, and, therefore, as in all States, were considered PW's and were made PW's. The order to shoot without warning was mentioned a.s being very ruthless. I shall read the rule concerning prisoners detained in this house:
"House Rules for Prisoners:
"A. Internees: The term 'internee' in those house rules means every person who is held in prison here and from whom no personal work or other service is demanded.
"B. Prisoners: The term 'prisoner' includes all persons detained here.
"C. Prisoners of War: The term 'prisoner of war' includes all doctors, clergymen and working personnel detained here for the operation of the prison."
That is to say, even in this particular prison the prisoners have to work, and the internees do not have to work.
I shall continue. I shall skip over the other rules, and I shall appreciate it if you would read Number 4 on the following page:
THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment.
DR. BERGOLD: Number 4: "No internee shall make an attempt to escape. In case of an attempt to escape, they will be knocked down or shot down. The guard will call 'stop' if time permits."
I merely want to show you that it is absolutely clear and naturral that one has to shoot after prisoners of war and that sometimes one does not even say "Stop" because there is no time for that. When, in the course of a military transport in the Alps, certain prisoners tried to escape, then, of course, they shot after them. That is not an inhumane act.
I shall proceed now to the following exhibit, which is an Extract from the Numberger Nachrichter of the 15 January 1947. This is Exhibit No. 27. It is a newspaper that appears here in Nuremberg. This is an article on a report of the Associated Press, "Where do German Prisoners of War Work in France?" That is on Page 16 of the German original, page 15 of Your Honors' document book:
"Extract from the Nurnberger Nachrichter, Newspaper for North Bavaria, 3rd Year/ No. 4 15 January 1947.
"Where do German Prisoners of War work in France?
"A survey of the French Ministry of Population from October 1946 showed the distribution of the German prisoners of war and the different branches of French economy as follows:"
I shall now refer to the second number, "coal mines, other mines and quarries, 62,000." the Prosecution introduced a number of exhibits concerning the employment of prisoners of war in coal mines. Their introduction can only mean to me that in their opinion.
This was inhuman; slave work. That, of course, is a mistake of the Prosecution. Prisoners of war may be employed in cool minus. This can be clearly seen from this special report of the French Government that German prisoners of war were used in the coal mines of France.
I shall, furthermore, refer to the sixth lino: "Mine clearing work, 30,200 people". These, of course, are very dangerous things because in those particular areas there are lots of mines, and it is a very dangerous task to remove those mines.
May it please the Tribunal, I have now finished my own document book. However, there is one more document in her which I would like to introduce later on, in the next few days, if I got another document back in the next few days which was not ready because I only got the necessary evidence from your government a few days ago; that is, Saturday. I would like to take the liberty no. -- or if the Tri bunal wishes to take a short recess -
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will take its customary short recess.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will recess for fifteen minutes.
(A recess was taken)
MARSHAL: All persons in the Court, please find your seats. Tribunal Number II is again in session.
DR. BERGOLD: Your Honors, I should, first of all, like to make a request. Because of a heart difficulty, since early years, I have not been in a physical condition that permits me to stand for a long time. I become faint under those circumstances. Would the Tribunal permit me to sit down while continuing my case?
THE PRESIDENT: Of course, Dr. Bergold.
DR. BERGOLD: Thank you very much.
Your Honors, I shall read now from the document books submitted by the prosecution. The prosecution read none that do not appear to me important for my case. I do not know the page numbers for the English Document Book; consequently, I shall refer to the exhibit number of the prosecution, and I hope that this will expedite the work of the Court. First, I should like to read from Exhibit No. 3 of the prosecution. I shall read from that, a few passages -- from Document Book 1-A, yes. This is the so-called "Schmundt Protocol" of the 23rd of May, 1939, the first item in Book 1-A. I shall read from page 10 of the German Document Book that I received. It is the paragraph in which Hitler concerns himself with the conducting of the war and lists a number of statistics. I should like to read number four. I'm going to begin with number four, which concerns a matter of cooperation between the army and the air force. Number four, the paragraphs of the underlined words, "Conduct of the War - The Waging of the War", page 6 of the English book, top of the page. The paragraph reads, number four, page 6 of the English original:
"Once the army, in cooperation with the air force and navy, has taken the most important positions, industrial production will cease to flow into the bottomlesspits of the army's battles and can be diverted to benefit the air force and navy."
Six or seven paragraphs later, on the next page, I should like to read another small paragraph. It begins with the words: -- six paragraphs later.
Yes, immediately subsequent to the underlined sentence in the middle of the page "The Plan Demands."
1. A correct estimate of weapons and their effectiveness, e.g., (a) Battleship or aircraft carrier, which is the more effective?
Individually or considered as a whole? The aircraft carrier is the better protection for a convoy.
(b) Is air attack more important on a factory than on a battleship? Where are bottlenecks in production located?"
DR. BERGOLD: I continue. Over to the next page, to the last page of the document, beginning with the word "Secrecy", at the top of page 7, the second full paragraph:
"Secrecy is the decisive requirement for success. Our subject must be kept secret even from Italy or Japan. The breakthrough to the Maginot line is still a possibility for Italy and must be studied. The Fuehrer considers that such a breakthrough is possible."
Then, on the same page, the last paragraph, "Working principles":
"Working principles:
1. No one must be admitted who is not concerned.
2. No one may know more than it is necessary for him to know.
3. When must the person concerned know, at latest? No one may know of a matter earlier than is necessary for him to know of it.
At the request of Field Marshal Goering, the Fuehrer decrees that:
(a) The various services shall decide what construction is to be undertaken.
(b) There shall be no alterations in the shipbuilding program.
(c) The armaments programs are to be considered with regards to 1943 or 19-4."
DR. BERGOLD: Your Honor, I shall later attempt to prove that this statement on the part of Hitler was not made at all by Hitler. And that, in other words, the Schmundt Protocol is a sort of fortification.
I come now to Exhibit No. 7. 3005 PS is the document number; 26 August 1941; in the English Document Book; It is addressed "To the Presidents of Regional Labor Exchange Offices, concerning the use of Russian PW's. I shall read from page 23 with reference to this letter of 14 August 1941 and I shall read only the part at the very beginning of this letter from The Reich Minister of Labor, Berlin, addressed to the Presidents of Regional Labor Exchange Offices (including Nuernberg Branch Office). It will be seen from this letter that these regulations were not known to Milch and could not be known by him because they were not addressed to him.