It is equally urgent that the following steps of the Buna synthesis be corrected by an immediate increase in staff, which can he done by February or March 1944.
"d) As, on principle the chemical industry has too little iron at its disposal, it was decided about 2 months ago, that, owing to the situation with regard to iron the annual Buna output of the Buna-Works in Upper Silesia must be reduced from 30,000 to 20,000 tons that is to say by one third.
"In view of the coming situation, the works in Auschwitz should be run to the full extent envisaged in the old planning and treated as 'Grade I Prierit.
"Only in this way does it seem possible that German rubber production will not collapse entirely owing to increase air-raids.
"Besides, the general plenipotentiary for special matters regarding chemical production considers it necessary to establish in the East a new unit with a production capacity of about 20,000 tons of Buna yearly.
"The Reich Marshal has ordered the Central Planning to examine without delay the requests listed here and providing they are necessary, to take all measures required to carry them out immediately. The Reich Marshal awaits a report that steps have been taken.
"The Personal Advisor of the Reich Marshal of greater Germany Dr. Ing.
Goernnert "Ministerialrat."
MR. DENNEY: We offer this in evidence as Exhibit 126, if your Honor please, and will furnish the necessary copy to the Defense.
Q. Do you recall receiving that message?
A. After hearing it read here in Court, yes, I remember it now.
Q. Your memory has been refreshed?
A. Yes, it has been refreshed.
MR. DENNEY: I hand the witness document No. 268, and ask that a copy be handed to the Defense and the Interpreter.
(Reading) (letter to Milch read in error)
DR. BERGOLD: One minute! I have received a much different copy.
MR. DENNEY: "The Reich Marshal of Greater Germany Plemipotentiary for the Four Year Plan the State Secretary, Berlin, 9 June 1943.
Dear Reichsminister Speer, It has been suggested in the Central Planning (Zentral Planning) to grant cards for additional and extra rations for workers doing heavy and heaviest work to new laborers of a firm only if the labor office (Arbeitsamt) approves the employment. The cards for additional and extra rations should be witheld during the first four weeks from all new laborers - who are otherwise entitled to get the extra rations - if the laborers are hired by individual firms in an illegal way. This should be done in order to decrease undesirable fluctuation. After thorough examination of the suggestion by the Reich Ministry of Food and the Plenipotentiary for the Allocation of Labor it is clear that it is absolutely forbidden to employ new workers without reference to the Labor Offices. In cases in the heads of a firm disregard this prohibition, the order to withhold the two ration cards (which are of course issued by the firm) will also be ignored.
It does not pay, therefore, to issue a new decree.
I have had an investigation as to how the distribution of the cards, extra rations is practically handled in the firm Rheinmetall-Borsig in Tegel. This firm makes us to a large extent of the decree of the Reich Mimister of Food on 7 April 1942 which decree stipulates the possibility to withhold cards for additional rations from malingers. I enclose a report about the findings. In principle, the additional food ration is not granted to new 684a personnel before at least two weeks have expired.
The firm regards the decree as an essential expedient for the struggle against the various disturbances in the allocation of labor.
On basis of these findings I believe that we can attain the end at what we aim (as far as this is possible by a decree) by referring the execution of the firm connected to the existing decree of the Reich Minister of Food.
I have transmitted a copy of this letter to General Feldmarschall Milch. Heil Hitler! Yours (Signed) Koerner, Copy to Reichsminister Speer."
MR. DENNEY: We offer this as Exhibit No. 127.
DR. BERGOLD: May it please the Court, with respect to the admission the letter of the Reich Marshall in evidence, I object to this. It says at the end of the letter "Not official." I therefore make the suggestion to the counsel for the Office of the Chief of War Crimes, that this is not an official copy. It is not apparent that what the letter says is true. If the document is sought to be used I ask that only an official copy be used so that I can be certain that the contents are correct.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Bergold's objection seems to go to the authenticity of the document.
MR. DENNEY: Yes, I believe so.
DR. BERGOLD: I om objecting because it is not official. It is definitely called "Not official."
MR. DENNEY: If Your Honor please, the document I have of course bears no such notation. I will examine the original (Examines document). I certainly concede that it appears on Dr. Bergold's copy. I am referring now to the letter from Koerner to Speer. I did not know what. Dr. Bergold referred to, until I saw it on the copy, printed in German.
May we have the copy that the Secretary-General has, please?
THE PRESIDENT: Are you ready to proceed, Mr. Denney?
MR. DENNEY: I am just endeavoring to get the numbers straightened out just getting the numbers so it will be clear, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
MR. DENNEY: We have here the photostatic original which I will show witness. Show that to the witness.
(Document shown to witness.)
685 a
Q Witness, you have been handed the original of the letter of June 9, 1943, from you to Milch, together with the letter of the same date, from you to Speer?
A Yes.
Q Do you recognize those?
A Yes, I do.
Q Those are your documents?
A Yes. The signature under the letter to Milch is my signature.
Q And please examine the pages one and two in your hand; is that a copy of the letter which you received?
A That appears to be a copy of the letter, in any case, as it is attached to my letter to Milch, it would appear to be in order. As to the signature confirmation, I can not find the signature confirmation on this copy.
Q No, there was no signature on the copy which we captured, they were captured in that fashion.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness, however, admits the genuineness of the document, so that seems to negate your objection, Dr. Bergold.
DR. BERGOLD: I admit that the document -- I did not hear the witness call the enclosure. My objection goes only to the enclosure, not to the first page. And the reason is, because my copy says "Not an official copy." The witness should be able to tell me whether he declared the enclosure correct and authentic.
THE WITNESS: I car describe the letter to Milch, as completely correct. The enclosure not. I can only assume that it is the correct enclosure to this.
MR. DENNEY: The witness says that he assumes it is a correct enclosure. That is the way the documents were captured.
DR. BERGOLD: It is only an assumption of the witness. I ask the right to examine into the fact as to whether this assumption is correct.
MR. DENNEY: I submit counsel can question the witness on it whenever he wishes to.
THE WITNESS: May I say something, briefly, on the first document, which I was handed.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, go ahead.
THE WITNESS: This is a teletype copy of a letter by the Reichsmarshal on the basis of a subordinate, to the Reichsminister, with reference to the Plan for Chemical Production with reference to taking official measures in the field of Buna Production. This teletype letter says quite clearly that a measure was taken -- was as much to do as necessary-by Goering, as the letter of the Four Year Plan, on the basis -- in regard to the Chemical Works which had been bombed very heavily in several air raids. The document shows clearly, as a special matter -- that a special contingent of iron should be supplied, so that an adjustment for the loss could be created. That Goering, as the head of the Four Year Plan, should address himself to the Central Planning Board, which was looking after the Production of raw materials; and also, in such exceptional cases to dispose of a threat, as a matter of course.
MR. DENNEY: I submit that the document speaks for itself, and it is not, therefore, necessary for me to direct your Honor's attention to the part of the document which also speaks of Labor. It is also not necessary to call your Honor's attention to the fact that all of these papers were captured in the files, in the papers, of the Defendant Milch.
Q. Witness, how many meetings of the Central Planning Board were held
Q. How many meetings of the Central Planning Board were held?
A. I cannot say this - how many.
Q. Well, were there a hundred?
A. I don't think so.
Q. Were there fifty?
A. I do not want to commit myself to a figure. In any case I was always told in these interrogations that all documents of all meetings were in the hands of the prosecution.
Q. You answer the questions, witness. How often did the Central Planning Board meet, starting with its creation in 1942?
A. In figures my memory is letting me down. One thing is certain, that every three months one meeting was held, of the Central Planning Board, which dealt with the distribution of all materials. Apart from those regular meetings there were other meetings on the questions of raw materials and the figure of those meetings I no longer recall. Apart from that, as is well known and as was said often before today, there were other meetings which had a purely informative character.
Q. Well, do you remember the Jaegerstab?
A. No, I had nothing to do with Jaegerstab.
Q. You never attended their meetings?
A. No, not one meeting.
Q. Did you ever hear of the Jaegerstab mentioned in Central Planning?
A. I could not say this off-hand. The term "Jaegerstab" was used so often in 1944 that I no longer know where it was used.
Q. Well, the Jaegerstab only existed from March 1944 until August 1944?
A. As far as I can recall, yes.
Q. You were at the 55th meeting of the Central Planning Board on March 1, 1944. Do you remember who presided at that meeting?
A. I cannot say that precisely. It was either Milch or Speer; one of the two.
Q. Well, for your information, Milch presided.
A. That may well be so.
Q. I tell you. it's so. We have the minutes.
A. Yes.
Q. In Document Book 3-A, page 1, about the last eight lines in the first paragraph, appearing on page 1768 of the German original. Sauckel spoke at that meeting. Were yea present?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. "In the previous years I was able to satisfy the demands, at least with regard to the number of laborers, but this year I am no longer able to guarantee them in advance. Increase I can deliver only a small number, I should be glad if those arriving would be distributed by percentage, within the framework of your program. Of course, I shall readily agree if I am now told by the Board, 'Now we have to change the program. Now this or that is more urgent.' It goes without saying that we will satisfy the demands, whatever they may be, to the best of our ability, with due regard to the war situation. So much about figures."
Then, on page 1969 of the original - it's on Page of the English Document Book - it's the beginning of the full paragraph, to the left of which appear the figures 1770: "At that time I was very much concerned: We discovered a decrease in the amount of labor employed. Today I am able to report that we stooped that decrease. According to most accurate statistics, which I had ordered, we have today again including foreign workers and prisoners of war the same number of 29.1 millions which we had in September. But we have added nothing since that time. Thus we dispatched to the Reich in these two months no more than 4,500 Frenchmen which amounts to nothing. From Italy only 7,000 civilians arrived. This, although from 1.12 until today I have had no hour, no Sunday, and no night for myself."
Then, continuing to the last full paragraph on the same page, the paragraph to the left of which appear the figures 1771: "The most abominable point made by my adversaries is their claim that no executive had been provided within these areas in order to recruit in a sensible manner the Frenchmen, Belgians, and Italians and to dispatch them to work. Thereupon I even proceeded to employ and train a whole batch of French male and female agents who for good pay, just as was done in olden times for "shanghaiing", went hunting for men and made them drunk by using liquor as well as words, in order to dispatch them to Germany.
Moreover I changed some able men with founding a special labor supply executive of our own, and this they did by training and arming with the help of the higher SS and Police Fuehrer a number of natives, but I still have to ask the Munitions Ministry for arms for the use of these men."
Turning now to page 5 of the English document Book, about eight lines from the top of the paragraph, to the left of which appears the figure 1776, and it starts out in the middle of the page, both ways: "On the other hand". It's the beginning of a sentence. It's one full sentence above the sentence where the period -- the figures 5 and 6 appear, and the name "Laval".
"On the other hand, I have grounds for hoping that I shall be just able to wiggle through, first by using my old corps of agent and my labor executive, and secondly by relying upon the measures which I was lucky enough to succeed in obtaining from the French Government. In a discussion lasting 5-6 hours I have exerted from M. Laval the concession that the death penalty will be threatened for officials endeavoring to sabotage the flow of labor supply and certain other measures. Believe me, this was very difficult. It required a hard struggle to get this through. But I succeeded, and now in France, Germans ought to take really severe measures, in case the French Government does not do so."
And then, down a few lines, there's a sentence that ends with the word "France" and the next sentence starts "There is only one solution". the words "Buergermeister" and "Prefect" appear in this. "There is only one solution: the German authorities have to cooperate with each other, and if the Frenchmen despite all their premises do not act, then we Germans must make an example of one case and by reason of this law, if necessary, put the Prefect or Buergermeister against the wall, if he does not comply with the rules. Otherwise no Frenchman at all will be dispatched to Germany."
And then, turning over to page 7, Sauckel still speaking, there is a sentence that appears just before the notation to the left in the middle of the paragraph, 1780:
"Therefore I have to continue to go to France, Belgium, Helland, and Italy, and there will be a time again when I shall go to Poland and extract workers there as fit and as many of them as I can get." And then, at the bottom, the last sentence of the same paragraph: "How the labor is to be distributed will then have to be decided according to the needs of the whole of German industry, and I shall always be prepared to keep the closest contact with you all, gentlemen, and to charge the labor exchanges and the district labor exchanges with intimately collaborating with you. Everything is functioning if such collaboration exists."
Do you recall Herr Sauckel's speech at that meeting, witness?
A. I cannot recall those details today, of course. As you held the documents of that meeting, I assume that these statements were really made. But it becomes quite clear from these remarks by Sauckel that here he attempted to justify his point of view.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Denny, ask the witness what he means by that. BY MR. DENNY:
Q. What do you mean by your last statement, wetness, that here Sauckel attempted to justify his point of view?
A. I said already this morning that Speer was not in agreement with the whole method used by Sauckel and that was the reason why the relations between Sauckel said Speer often had elements of tension. As Speer had called this meeting together, even though it was presided ever by Milch, and Speer was unavailable at the time and had to do something more important, it was only done in order to convict Sauckel of the wrong methods which he used. If these statements read by you - these statements of Sauckel read by you - have been made, one can see from the way he produced them, one can see that he wanted to defend his method of doing work.
Q. By his method, you mean "shanghaiing", getting them drunk, standing Buergermesiters up against walls, con cluding agreements with Laval and his kind, extracting laborers from Poland, going to Holland, Italy, and Belgium; is that what you refer to, witness?
A I do not know whether Sauckel used these methods. If he did according to what you read, it was quite certain things were said only to have that he used any method to bring labor to Germany.
Q You say Speer had something more important to do on 12 March 1944? What was Speer doing on 12 March 1944 that was more important than finding out whether or not 4,050,000 workers that had been asked for by Hitler were going to be forth coming from the GBA?
A I cannot answer your question. You should ask Speer.
Q You're on the stand, witness. I am asking you -- you said he had something important to do. What was it?
A I said that perhaps he had something more important to do.
Q Perhaps? Don't you know that Speer was sick? He had been sick since January and was sick until April of '44?
A That is possible. I don't know that today.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Mr. Denney, I notice that the name Milch appears opposite Page 1798 in Sauckel's speech and presumably 1780. Do you submit that Milch was present at the time of the Sauckel speeck?
MR. DENNEY: If Your Honor please, in the opening statement, Sauckel starts, "Field Marshal, Gentlemen."
BY MR. DENNEY:
Q You were interrogated on the 12th of December 1946 by Mr. Myers and a Warrant Officer Carter of the British Wac. Do you recall that?
A Yes.
Q Were you asked those questions and did you make these answers: Question: But you know, for certain of course, that many foreigners worked in Germany?
"A Naturally; that is clear."
Q Could you estimate how many?
A I know the figures gradually which I have learned from all the reports, about five to six million.
"Question: How high do you estimate the number of people who came voluntarily?
"Answer: That goes into the millions, for certain.
"Question: One, two, three?
"Answer: That I would not like to fix. Certainly it runs into millions; whether it was 30 or 10 percent, I do not know. You must ask the people who are responsible. Until 1942, everyone was here on a voluntarybasis; and then, there were one and one-half million foreign workers in Germany."
Do you recall those questions and these answers, witness:
A. Yes, I recall these statements.
Q. You were at the fifth Meeting of the Central Planning Board held in Berlin on 27 April 1942 together with Speer, the defendant, and some others --two others --State Secretary Mr. Schulze-Fiolitz, Minister of Munitions, and Minister von Bermann of the Four-Year Plan. You received a copy of the results of that meeting. Paragraph One of the Results states --and I might add that there were only eight copies on the direction list -- Paragraph One states: "The Central Planning in the Four-Year Plan (Order of the Reich Marshal of the Greater German Reich of April 22, 1912 VP 6707 g) is a task of leadership. It is only concerned with principles and superior matters. It gives definite decisions and controls the execution of its orders. Central Planning is not concerned with anonymous institutions which are difficult to supervise, but with fully responsible individual persons who are free to choose their own methods and collaborators inasfar as there are no directives given by Control Planning."
Do you recall that statement, witness:
A. I cannot recall it from the reading of this. I should read through it again.
(Witness is handed the document)
Q. If Your Honor please, I have indicated that that was the Fifth Meeting. It should have been the First Meeting. I am advised it was repeated in the Fifth as well.
DR. BERGOLD: The recital is attached to the record of the Fifth Meeting. That might have started the confusion.
MR. DENNY: In any event, the witness was present in both meetings.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
BY MR. DENNY:
Q. Do you remember seeing that, witness?
A. I cannot quite recall the things, but as I am reading now, I assume, and it becomes quite clear to me, that this was a statement made by Speer during the first meeting of the Central Planning Board.
Q. Excuse me, Your Honors, for just a minute.
I hand the witness the German copy of the Defense Document Book in the trial before the International Military Tribunal; it being a copy of the defendant Speer's document Book. I am sorry, Dr. Bergold, I don't have the English copy and the German copy. However, I am sure that the witness will correct me if I read improperly.
Q I hand you a copy of tho Defense Document Book in the trial before the International Military Tribunal. It is a copy of Defendant Speer's Document Book. I am sorry I do not have more copies. I have only one English copy and one German copy. I am sure the Witness will correct me if I read improperly. This is dated Berlin, 1942, 22 April, and is an excerpt from a newspaper. It is the decree signed by Goering establishing the Central planning Board. The newspaper excerpt bears the date 25 April 1942.
"With a view of assuring priority of armaments as ordered by Hitler and to summarize all the demands which are thus made on the total economy during the war as well as to bring about a balance by safeguarding the food and raw materials and production opportunities of the economy, I order:
"1. A 'Central Planning' shall be set up within a framework of the Four Year Plan. It is to be directly subordinated to me.
"2. The direction of the 'Central Planning' is undertaken jointly by the Reich Minister Speer, and Field Marshal General Milch and State Secretary Koerner.
"3. The 'Central Planning' encompasses the sphere of the entire economy and has among others, the following tasks:
"a) the decision about the necessity of execution or new plans or continuation of already existent plans "b) the decision about creating new or developing existing places of production of raw materials "c) the distribution of the existent raw materials, especially of iron and metals among all places requiring them "d) the inclusion of coal of energy in production "e) the voting on demands of the total economy and of the transportation system.
"4. Insofar as I have not reserved for myself the decision in particular cases, the 'Central Planning' decides finally in its own competence by virtue of the power invested in me.
"5. The 'Central Planning' issues the necessary executory regulations.
"6. The powers given to the General Plenipotentiary for Armament tasks in the Four Year Plan as per my decree of 1 March 1942 are not affected by this order."
This is signed "Hermann Goering."
A In the copy which I have, the Distribution of labor as not mentioned at all. The five points mentioned here show clearly what tasks the Central Planning Board had which were all tasks concerned with the distribution of raw materials. It was obvious that if those who needed iron or coal and could not be supplied, now planning could not be undertaken, and existing planning could not be carried on. It all comes to the definite task of distributing raw materials. All five points show clearly and definitely how measures are decided toward that end.
DR. BERGOLD: I would like to see the copy which the witness has, so that, if necessary, I can raise an objection to the reading by who Prosecution.
This information appeared in a newspaper, but it was not a public newspaper. I object to the manner in which Dr. Denney has read this document. In the German original there is no reference to the Distribution of labor.
DR. DENNEY: If your Honor please, I never used the words "distribution of labor" in my reading of the document.
DR. BERGOLD: That is how it was translated for us.
THE PRESIDENT: If it is a question of discrepency between the original and the translated version, that can easily be resolved.
DR. DENNEY: If your Honor pleas, it is our contention that the powers given in this are broad enough to include labor, but I probably did get some help from the interpreters. "Distribution of labor" does not appear any place in the translation which I read.
So far as Dr. Bergold's objection to the document is concerned, I call the Court's attention to the fact that it is an exhibit in the case "United States against Hermann Goering, et al," and as such the Court will take judicial notice of it.
DR. BERGOLD: I withdraw my objection. The German word for labor is "arbeit" and I had to rely on what was translated for me.
THE PRESIDENT: Much ado about nothing. No one claims it refers to the distribution of labor.
DR. BERGOLD: Only the interpreters.
Q Witness, you were at the 56th meeting of the Central Manning Board which took place on 4 April 1944. The results of that meeting appear in Prosecution's English Document Book Number 4 as Exhibit 48-D. It is Page 94 and Page 95 of the English Document Book. It is the paragraph starting off "Fighting Staff" or "Jaegerstab." It is about the biggest paragraph on that page. It is the second or third page of the results of the 56th meeting.
"The Fighting Staff to got a quota of 550 million, including 15O million definitely pledged from the reserve and the air administration is to have a quota of 200 million. Both are to be checked against each other.
Do you remember that reference to the Fighting Staff at the 56th meeting of the Central Planning Board which mas held early in April?
A That, of course, I cannot recall.
DR. BERGOLD: May I help you?
MR. DENNEY: No thank you. Thank you very much.
THE PRESIDENT: It is almost recess time. Would you like to take a recess at this time?
MR. DENNEY: If your Honor please.
THE PRESIDENT: The court will take a short recess.
(A recess was taken).
THE MARSHALL: The Tribunal is again in session.
MR. DENNEY: Your Honors please. Witness, I ask you how many meetings of the Central Planning Board you attended and you said you couldn't remember.
A I can't remember the exact number. An any case, I was present in most of the sessions.
Q Well, there were sixty meetings and you attended all by the 44th, 46th, 48th and the 55th.
A Yes, indeed.
Q What was your attitude on the exploitation of occupied territory?
A I already mentioned that before the International military Tribunal No. 1 and I answered these questions during cross examination.
MR. DENNEY: If your Honor please, I have the right to test the witness's power of recollection.
DR. BERGOLD: I would like to object. As far as I know during the meeting of the International Military Tribunal, should a cross examiner refer exclusively to questions which are put by either the defense counsel or the prosecution in this trial against Milch on the question of the exploitation of occupied territory in regard to foodstuffs, etc., this question is not material to the trial. I would appreciate therefore if Mr. Denney could tell me how this matter is connected with the defendant Milch?
MR. DENNEY: If your Honor please, I have already stated that I have a right to test the witness's power to recollect.
DR. BERGOLD: With this particular possibility one could introduce any kind of material into a cross-examination. I am of the opinion that the test of memory could be carried out in a different way, that is, particularly by reference to the material and the minutes or the Court.
MR. DENNY: Well, if your honors please, I will withdraw the question.
BY DR. DENNEY:
Q Did you see a decree of Speer signed 16 September 1943 which had to do with the functions of the Central Planning Office within the Central Planning Board?
A No, I can't remember that. If I could be presented with the letter, then of course I might remember.
MR. DENNEY: We will get to that. English Document Book 2-A, Page 38 Document number 1510. Do you have a German copy, Dr. Bergold, that can be shown to the witness?
Dr. BERGOLD: Yes. sir.
MR. DENNEY: I believe it as on page -- if four Honors please, in the German document book it appears that the document is not complete and with the Court's permission, if Dr. Bergold had no objection -- we did the same thing with him this morning -- I will read this and then we will furnish him with the page.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, I agree.
MR. DENNEY: This is dated 16 September 1943, and I will read it only in part. It is signed by Speer.
"The Planning Office will have to submit to central Planning for decision the proposed assignment for manpower to the individual big sectors of employment, trade economy on war work, traffic, foodstuff , etc. It also has to evaluate statistically the carrying through of the assignment."
Now one last question.
Q You worked very closely with Georing in the early years and less closely during the war years?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q You stated at the first trial that your opinion of Georing was that he was the last big man of the Renaissance, the last great example of a man from the Renaissance period. Is that still your opinion of him?
A If I ever make a statement and that as my opinion, I stick to it.
MR. DENNEY: Yea may inquire.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
DR. BERGOLD: May it please the Tribunal, I take the liberty now to inquire.
