Q The same applies also to Majdanek, does it, or is that an exception?
A I believe the same goes for Majdanek.
Q Witness, a final question. On this chart, or map, the borders are marked in black. Can you tell me at what time these borders were in effect?
A Before the annexation of Austria, 1938.
DR. SCHILF: Thank you very much.
MR. WOOLEYHAN: No further questions, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness may be excused.
(witness excused)
MR. WOOLEYHAN: Your Honor, the Prosecution has nothing further to offer today. May we request an adjournment at this time?
THE PRESIDENT: We will adjourn at this time until tomorrow morning at 9:30 o'clock.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will adjourn until 2 May 1947 at the hour of 9:30 in the morning.
(Whereupon the Tribunal adjourned until 2 May 1947 at 0930 hours.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America, against Josef Alstoetter, et al., defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 1 May 1947, 0930 - 1630, Justice Carrington T. Marshall, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal No. III.
Military Tribunal No. III is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the court.
THE PRESIDENT: Marshal, you will please ascertain if all of the defendants are present in the court.
THE MARSHAL: May it please your Honors, all the defendants are present in the court room with the exception of the defendant Engert, who is absent due to illness.
THE PRESIDENT: The defendant Engert has been temporarily excused at his own request. The proper notation will be made.
MR. KING: May we ask the court to turn to the Document Book 9-B. Document Book 9-B, as was 9-A, is further addressed to Count IV of the Indictment. All of the documents physically in 9-B, as it has been circulated, pertain to either SS or SD activities of some of the defendants charged under Count IV. He should say a word to distinguish the records which are here presented from those presented in Document Book 9-A. The Personnel Records in 9-A were from the Personnel Section of the Ministry of Justice, while the personnel records presented here in 9-B are from the personnel files of the SS, who maintain their own personnel records' section. That is a partial answer, I think, to Dr. Haensel's query the other day as to where the balance of Joel's personal correspondence might be. It isn't a complete answer, but it is a partial answer.
The first document in Book 9-B, NG-748, will become, when formally offered, Exhibit 421. There are numerous letters of promotion from one position to another in this first document -- the SS records of the defendant Alstoetter -- and many of these, in fact most of them, we will not read or especially refer to.
We do point out on page 6, that on June 21, 1944, there is to be found what is perhaps the final promotion which the defendant Alstoetter received, and that was to SS-Oberfuehrer, in a statement which is signed by Himmler. There are also in these records letters which were sent to or received from the subject of the personnel record. We call the court's attention to page 17, a portion of a record from the personnel file in which we find it stated that the defendant Alstoetter was discharged from the Wehrmacht on 25 January 1943, because of his indispensability status, and that he was appointed Ministerial Director in the Reich Ministry of Justice on 1 February '43.
Then on page 28, we find what appears to be, at least the latter six years of promotions in the SS -- nine promotions in all -- starting out in 1938, the last one being on the 21st of June 1944. Then on page 29, we find a personnel questionnaire which the defendant himself has filled out and signed. We find on Page 36, a letter from Himmler recommending the promotion to Obersturmbannfuehrer as of April 20, 1943. The first paragraph may be of some interest to us. It states briefly his Wehrmacht record in this war -- in the second war -- and also stating that he is Ministerial Director of the Reich Ministry of Justice, and in charge of the Civil Suit Section there.
On page 42, we find a letter addressed from Alstoetter to Himmler and he says in part in this letter -- this is dated May 25, 1940:
"For 14 days I have had the good fortune to have been able to take part in our advance through Holland and Belgium as commander of a company belonging to an Infantry regiment, and to have a direct part in these great events.
"If I can contribute my small part towards helping our Fuehrer to accomplish his great task for the benefit of our nation, this causes me particular joy and satisfaction, especially in my capacity as SS Officer.
The morale and conduct of my unit are remarkable and we are fully confident that we shall accomplish the tasks assigned to us and emerge victorious from the decisive battle which still lies ahead. It is the pride of each man to be able to justify the trust of our Fuehrer, who has placed us in responsible posts by utter fulfillment of our duty and complete devotion to our cause."
There are other letters, which we will not read excerpts of at this time. We offer the entire document, NG-748, as Exhibit 421. I am mistaken as to the exhibit number; it is Exhibit 420 rather than 421.
THE PRESIDENT: I think you are mistaken. It should be 421, according to my records.
MR. KING: According to your records, Your Honor, what was 420?
THE PRESIDENT: That was NG-179.
MR. KING: It is 421. To again state it: we offer the Document NG-748 as Exhibit 421.
THE PRESIDENT: The document will be received in evidence.
MR. KING: As Exhibit 422, we introduce at this time the document NG-749, which document is the SS record of the defendant Engert. On page 53 of the English text, we find the record of Engert's service career in the SS dating from what appears to be the first promotion in 1935 through what appears to be the last promotion in 1944.
THE PRESIDENT: What page did you say?
MR. KING: On page 53 in the English text.
JUDGE BRAND: The exhibit starts on page 48?
MR. KING: It starts on page 49. There are a number of personal letters passing between Engert and Himmler, some of which we wish to read at this time. On page 58 of the English text, we find the letter from Engert to Himmler dated the 31st of December 1935. Engert writes: 2979 "I thank you, Reichsfuehrer, for the Christmas Candlestick and the accompanying lines.
The spirit permeating the SS is the guarantee that the Fuehrer's work is safeguarded. May that spirit, by tireless struggle, become the common property of the greater part of our people.
"Beyond that; may I, as one old party comrade to another, express my and my family's heartiest wishes for the New Year, to you and yours.
"The work of all of us, as before, shall only serve the Fuehrer and thus the movement and thereby, again our people.
"Heil to the Fuehrer, but woe to all his conscious and unconscious adversaries."
On page 59 tho personal questionnaire which was filled out, presumably, and actually signed by Engert.
On page 63 we find a short biographical sketch which Engert himself has written. I would like to read a portion of that beginning with the last paragraph on the bottom of page 63 in the English text: "In the Field I was also employed among other things as Educational Officer in 1917 and 18. At the beginning of 1920 I started my political activities by giving lectures with slides about the Dictate of Versailles. At the end of 1920 I joined tho NSDAP, and founded in Scheinfeld the first and oldest group of the Party in Mittelfranken. I received my first membership card on 15 April 1921 with the No. 3262. I met the Fuehrer already in 1920, I was repeatedly permitted to be together with him in personal conversation. In 1923 I was ready to march with the Scheinfeld Local Group. In September 1924 I visited the Fuehrer in Landsberg, and spent half an hour with him. Shortly afterwards I collected in my district 700 signatures to a petition to release tho Fuehrer, addressed to the Bavarian Government of that time. I did not join the "Voelkischer Block," but I propagated the idea of National Socialism in many meetings even after the Party had been forbidden. Moreover, with the approval of the Fuehrer, I worked in the Reich Chief Office for Home Service, and sopke at meetings. I again joined the Party at the end of 1926, my now membership card bears the number 57,331, and is dated 2 March 1927. In February 1928 I had the pleasure of twice receiving the Fuehrer and Party member Rudolf Hess in my home in Amberg; on occasion of the second visit the Fuehrer stayed at my home for several hours." We do not, of course, wish to read the rest of the letter against time.
We turn to page 79 and notice in the second column the cable which appears there of what appears to be a rather complete statement of his party activity. We find, among other things, that he was a frequent visitor to Nurnberg during the Party congresses held here.
On page 84... we return first to page 85 in the English text. This is a letter dated April 7, 1944, from Engert to Himmler. He states, "On occasion of our consultation I wanted to ask you, 1) to offer me an opportunity for ideological lectures (full time or part time) either at officer candidate schools (Junkerschulen), in the Waffen SS, in the camps or to racial Germans, etc.
2) to employ me in your counter-intelligence service;
3) to employ me in the Security Service (SD) (full time or half time). I have the qualifications of point 1, because I have made speeches for our movement since 1920; Reich spokesman of the NSDAP. As to the suggest tions of 2 and 3: In the course of my six years' activity at the People's Court I became acquainted with the designs and methods of the enemies of the state. The events which became known to me made me furthermore realize the necessity that the good old National Socialists have to rally closer and closer round the Fuehrer."
On page 84 we find a letter dated 4 June 1944 from Himmler to Engert which is fact accepts Engert's offer to act in the counter-intelligence and security service in his spare time.
On page 91 you will find a request to Engert to be issued a new SS uniform because of one he has been using to address in when he went out as Reich ordered is badly threadbare, and he needs a now one very urgently.
The letter on page 93 is a letter from Engert to Himmler following Himmler's gift to him on his birthday of a book. The final sentence in that letter we would like to read. Engert states: it is dated 1942 -October 14, 1942: "I believe the best way to maintain the loyalty sworn to the SS and to return my best thanks to you, will be by contributing, in whatever position I may be, my share to ensure that such virtues are never buried again."
On page 97 we find a letter from Engert to Himmler. This is dated 7 September 1940. We would like to call the Court's attention to the first paragraph in which Engert says, "You made me hope to be employed in your offices in case of longer duration of the war. As, in my opinion, the war perhaps will still last a longer time, I repeat my former request. I can justify it all the more, as I could only be employed in the Army as station commander, or commander of a prisoner camp, and for the next months the work in my senate shows a considerable decrease of political criminal cases."
Then on page 96 a letter from Himmler -- I am sorry, that is not a letter from Himmler. It is a letter to Dr. Thierack from the Chief of the SS Personnel Main Office in which the writer says," The Vice President of the People's Court, SS Oberfuehrer Karl Engert, SS No. 274, 658 has applied in a letter to the Reich Fuehrer SS to be assigned to the SS for the duration of the war. The Reich Fuehrer SS is prepared to grant this request."
Then on page 95 the reply of Thierack to the Chief of tho SS Personnel Main Office in which he states that the People's Court is extremely overburdened and overdone with work due to the enlargement of the Reich territory, so that a number of judges had to be transferred to the People's Court again, and he said it is difficult situation and I can not spare such a proven man as my vice president.
Page 101 in the English text, in an earlier letter from Engert to Himmler, in which he asks that he be transferred to the office of the president of the Munich Court of Appeals, which he understands will soon become available, and then he points out that another candidate who was also in line for the job became, a man by the name of Duerr, a member of the Party only after the seizure of power. Furthermore, again in contrast to Duerr, he said, "I believe I went through the entire practical judicial career holding the office of a Director of District Court and President at District Courts."
The letter on page 100 is tho reply, stating that the Fuehrer has been consulted on the matter, and it has been decided that Engert will stay in his then present position.
We find on page 105 a letter from Engert to the Staff of the Standarte in Regensburg, in which he says, "A closer connection between the secret state police and the Reich Ministry of Justice has proved necessary. For this reason I am to join the Staff of the Reich Leadership (Reichsfuehrung) of the SS in the service of the secret state police as a liaison agent. Therefore, I regret having to ask for my release from tho SA."
That is all of this particular document which we wish to call particularly to the Court's attention at this time, and we therefore, offer the document NG-749 as Prosecutor's Exhibit No. 422.
THE PRESIDENT: The document will be received in evidence.
MR. KING: The next document which we offer -- or introduce at this time is NG-747, which is a SS record of the defendant Joel, and will be when introduced and offered the next Prosecutor's Exhibit, No. 423.
We find on Page 112 of the English text what is said to be the official career of the defendant Joel, So No. 290890, a total of six promotions in the SS being shown there.
On Page 114 a questionnaire, presumably filled out by the defendant Joel.
On Page 117 there is a short statement, apparently for the SS files, of the defendant Joel's career.
On Page 118 we find statement that it is therefore requested to promote Joel to the rank of SS Sturmbannfuehrer, effective as of 9 November 1943.
On page 119 another note for the personnel files, So records dated 14 December 1942, and it says:
"On 14 December Sturmbannfuehrer Dr. Joel of the ReichSecurity Main Office informed me that SS-Sturmfuehrer Wanninger had been appointed Liaison officer to the Reich Ministry of Justice by the Reich Security Main Office. The Order appointing SS-Sturmbannfuehrer liaison officer to the Reich Ministry of Justice since 1937 has not been rescinded as yet nor has the cancellation been made public."
There is various other promotional and biographical material in this document which we do not call particular attention to at this time, and, therefore, offer the Document NG 747 as Exhibit 423. As soon as Defense Counsel completes examination of the original photostatic copy, it will be handed up to the Secretary General.
THE PRESIDENT: The document will be relieved in evidence.
MR. KING: The next document is NG 716, which will be Exhibit 424 when accepted into evidence. This document is to be found on Page 141 of the English Document Book 9-B. It is the sworn affidavit of one Rosemarie Rothaug, the daughter of the defendant Rothaug.
We will not read at this time very large portions of this document. We do wish to call attention to the last main paragraph on Page 142 of the English text, in which Frl. Rothaug speaks of the habitues of the Blaue Traube:
"Some of the regulars of the Blaue Traube were Regional Inspector Haberkern, who also owned the hotel; SS-Standartenfuehrer Faust; Section Chief Guegel of the German Labor Office; Director of the District Court Oeschey; Senior State Prosecutor Dr. Schroeder; Mr. Friedrich; Mr. Elkar; the Higher SS and Police Leader of the Military Area XIII, Obergruppenfuehrer Dr. Martin; his Adjutant Major Heymer, and my father. Dr. Martin was extremely seldom there.
"What my father's duties were in the Nurnberg Security Office I do not know, but I deduced from his conversation when he was at home on leave that he had something to do with the Reich Security Main Office in Berlin."
JUDGE BRAND: Did you read that correctly? Our English copy says, "What my father's duties were in the Nurnberg Security Police ..."
MR. KING: That's right.
JUDGE BRAND: You read it otherwise.
MR. KING: Did I? I am sorry.
We offer the Document NG 716 as Exhibit 424.
DR. KOESSL (for defendant Rothaug): May it please the Court, in the affidavit of the defendant Rothaug's daughter I find no indication to the effect that it had been called to her attention that she might refuse to testify. According to German law, that would have been necessary. I do not know, to be sure, any rule of the Tribunal that prescribes this waiver. Therefore, I would like to leave it up to the decision of the Tribunal whether this is a reason for returning this affidavit.
MR. KING: May we point out that at the time when this affidavit was given, and presumably now, the affiant was not in detention and therefore was at liberty, if she wished, to consult counsel before she signed the affidavit.
I believe, Your honor, I offered tho document in evidence?
THE PRESIDENT: Is the document under examination?
MR. KING: No. Oh, it has been returned here.
THE PRESIDENT: The document will be received in evidence.
MR. KING: The next document, NG 507, will become when received in evidence Exhibit 425. This is a sworn affidavit by Karl Schroeder.
THE PRESIDENT: It appears that there is some difficulty with the transmission system.
MR. KING: At the risk of being repetitious, let me say that this next document is KG 507, which will be when received in evidence Exhibit 425 and which is to be found on Page 143 of the Document Book 9-B. This is the sworn affidavit of Karl Schroeder, who was former Senior Public Prosecutor in Nurnberg. We wish to call to the attention of the Court the first part of the first main paragraph:
"Dr. Oswald Rothaug, then the presiding Justice of the Special Court, and I were intimate friends, and our families had been on friendly terms for twenty years. I know that Rothaug was very severe, and I should not have liked to be sentenced by him. He was the loading figure at the Court and very much feared. Whenever Rothaug designated the main court room for a session, it was known in advance that the sentence would call for tho death penalty. Rothaug's severity in applying penalties may have been due to the fact that his personal legal connections were identical with those of wide Party circles."
THE PRESIDENT: "Conceptions."
MR. KING: It is "conceptions", yes. "His personal legal conceptions were identical with those of wide party circles. In connection with Rothaug's relations to the SD, I can mention only that he was very well acquainted with an SD collaborator by the name of Eklar, who was active in the Nurnberg Court Building as junior barrister."
We do not wish to Call any more of that document particularly to the attention of the Court, and so we will offer -
JUDGE BRAND: May I ask a question. I was interested in the next sentence; a part of the English translation doesn't seem to be intelligibly translated; would you read that to me?
MR. KING: I believe that should be: "It should be noted in this connection", rather than. "I should not be". I think that makes sense.
THE PRESIDENT: The document will be admitted in evidence.
MR. KING: The next document will be NG-703, and will be, when accepted in evidence, Exhibit 426. This document is not in any document book, but should be placed at the end of Book IX-3. The document is a series of letters passing between the defendant Altstoetter Himmler and other individuals as well. We wish to call attention particularly to a letter which appears on Page 7 of the document as circulated. The defendant Altstoetter has addressed this letter to the Chief of the SS Head Office and to the individual Berger, who is SS Gruppenfuehrer. Beginning with the second line of that letter, Altstoetter writes:
"I thank you very cordially for your congratulations on my promotion to SS Standartenfuehrer and for the presentation of the scull and cross-bone-ring bestowed on me by the Reichsfuehrer-SS.
Both this promotion and the honouring of this decoration with the scull and cross-bone-ring I will take not only as a token of the Reichsfuehrer's most distinct proof of trust in me but also as an incentive for further active proof of my loyalty and for strictest adherence to my duties in my career as an SS man. I am happy to be allowed to march in step under your leadership. Call me whenever you need me, and I shall be ready."
We offer the Document NG-703 as Exhibit 426.
THE PRESIDENT: The document will be received in evidence.
MR. KING: The Court will recall that in connection with General Lehmann's appearance in this court room as a witness, we had some discussion of the Document NG-204 which was identified by General Lehmann and marked for identification as Exhibit 381, its admittance in evidence subject to the processing of the document. That document has now been processed, and we offer it in evidence at this time as Exhibit 381. Before formally sending the document up, I would like to comment just briefly on the present form of the Document NG-204. The witness Lehmann referred only to the letter which is on page three of the document, as circulated, dated 23 June, 1943, from Huelle to Von Ammon. The document proper, However, contains two additional notes, and to avoid offering an incomplete document those other notes have been translated and are included with the document we are offering now as Exhibit 381.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: (Attorney for Defendants Von Ammon and Schlegelberger) May it please the Court, today we received the German translation; we received only this morning the German translation of this document.
At the moment I cannot find out whether sometime ago we already received this document; as far as I remember, we did not get it before. Therefore, I ask to postpone the submission of this document since the twenty-four hour rule has not been complied with, and the contents of the document after all require that there be some discussion with my client.
MR. KING: We would rather reserve comment on this until we have actually seen the receipt which the Defense Information Center signed upon delivery of this document. Unless the Court has some comment, we will reserve ours until the receipt can be delivered to the court room.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: May it please the Tribunal, on principle I would like to remark that the receipt from the Document Center does not mean anything to us. The question is merely when we receive it, and I have just said -- and I think that is sufficient -- that we received that document not before this morning.
MR. KING: Whatever the receipt of the document may mean to Dr. Kubuschok, it certainly means that we have complied with the rules, and that is all we are required to do. If the Defense Information Center does not deliver the document promptly to Dr. Kubuschok, that is a matter between Dr. Kubuschok and the Defense Information Center, and not between Dr. Kubuschok and us.
THE PRESIDENT: At any rate, you want to wait until you have locked at that receipt before you take any action; is that right?
MR. KING: That is right.
JUDGE BRAND: Where do you want that exhibit placed; it wasn't indicated when you had it marked for identification.
MR. KING: That is correct. It should be placed in the Nacht und Nebel book, which is Document Book VI. Perhaps it would be well to place it as the final document in that book. We have not been able to locate the receipt, and rather than argue the point extensively, we will wait until the next session of Court and offer the document at that time.
THE PRESIDENT: You would have to wait until Monday, I think, to comply with the request of Defense Counsel.
MR. KING: Yes, that we are prepared to do.
THE PRESIDENT: In other words, you would have to wait until the Monday session in order to comply with the rule, as requested by Dr. Kubuschok. In the meantime if you find a receipt showing that the Prosecution has complied with the rule, that will create a different situation.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: May it please the Tribunal, I believe that it is necessary to get a clarification abut this rule. The rule was created for the protection of the Defense, so that we actually have twenty--four hours 'time to see the documents, to examine the document. In my opinion, if the rule is interpreted according to its meaning, therefore the only important thing is when the document center undertakes the general distribution of the document to the Defense Counsel.
Defense Counsel cannot bear the brunt of delay in the Document Center.
In my opinion it is entirely irrelevant wither this document 204 was ready yesterday or the day before in the Document Center or whether it was not there. We have no influence upon the method of work in the American office of the Document Center. For us it is mainly important when we receive it. And, if we received it this morning at 9 o'clock it was impossible to examine it extensively.
MR. LAFOLLETTE: Your Honors please, of course, if the receipt shows it did not get down there 24 hours before, we do not know; but, I think Dr. Kuboschok did not hear or otherwise misunderstood what we said. We did not say anything about the Document Center. We said the Defense Center. And, because of the arguments that are coming up, we have asked that an additional receipt be delivered to my office on every document that is delivered to the Defense Center. Normally we have those with us; something has happened on that, perhaps it was not delivered 24 hours in advance. We do not have any control of the Document Center room, nor do we assert one, nor do we have any control over the Defense Information Center. And, the rule obviously requires us to deliver documents 24 hours in advance of their submission at the Defense Center. That is what I am discussing, and I am sure that is what Dr. Kuboschok must have meant to discuss. Of course, we have no control over the operation of the Defense Center. It is under the Secretary General's office, in the first place, and I am certain an attempt is being made to run it well, but the Prosecution does not run the Center.
Now, that we have that matter cleared up, may I address the Court on another matter?
First, I regret that I find it necessary to ask the Court that when it recesses today, it recess to reconvene on Tuesday.
The situation with reference to witnesses is this: We will not call the witness Staud, whom we had anticipated calling this morning. Other witnesses that we want to use must be brought to us; some of them are in the Russian zone, one man was reported operated on when we got there, another man we might want is reported to be in Norway and we are trying to got in contact with him.
With reference to the document situation, when the Court granted us a recess last Thursday noon, we went to work on that. Our list of clean up documents, as we call them, or final list of documents is possibly a little more extensive than we anticipated, but it also happened that it was necessary to move the document room the first part of the week. It is hard enough for the document room to find documents when they are not moved, and obviously they cannot prepare documents and move at the same time. That is an order over which they have no control. So, we find ourselves in the position where we cannot present any further evidence and I do not believe that we will have anything to present on Monday; therefore, I think it would be foolish for me to ask the Court to reconvene on Monday and find it necessary to ask for a recess.
Now, there is another matter which I am bringing up now at the request of Dr. Behiing, and I think, incidentally the desire of Dr. Kuboschok. In a sense, I think this would be an anticipatory ruling, and the Count may act on it as it wishes, after, I am sure, it wants to hear Dr. Behling and possibly Dr. Kuboschok or other Defense Counsel.
Briefly, there is a document, NG 1007, it is an affidavit of Dr. Behling, the affidavit is dated March 1, 1947. Thereafter Dr. Behiing accepted employment as an associate of Dr. Kuboschok. There are certain facts which Dr. Behling and Dr. Kuboschok and I have discussed surrounding the making of this affidavit, and conversely when I had a conversation with Dr. Behling when he first appeared here either on the 12th or 13th of March. I think in this connection it would be better if I permit Dr. Behling to relate the facts first, but normally, in any event, the issue which will be raised would, not arise until we offered the exhibit.
Dr. Behling has done a good deal of work, which he tells me requites about 14 days normally. I obtained travel orders to Berlin, to carry him there for about ten days. The only assurance that I could give him bout this affidavit was that I would hold it until the last piece of evidence, if he was not here, so as to give him as long a time as possible to get back from Berlin.