As far as I recollect, approximately 30 persons were present at this meeting. I can remember the following: Ministerialdirigent Mettgenberg, Ministerialrat Joel, Oberregierungsrat Dr. Hans Hoyer, Ministerialrat Mielke, second Generalreferent Dr. Karl Westphal, Ministerialrat Ammon, Ministerialdirigent Dr. Fritz Grau and Ministerialrat Rietzsch.
I do not know who called the meeting, as I received the request to attend through official channels. The purpose of the meeting was a lecture on euthanasia killing of insane persons. The lecture was given by a representative of Dr. Karl Brandt. I am of the opinion that it was Brack who was to explain the problem to us.
He informed us that a Fuehrer decree had been issued according to which mercy-killing could be performed on persons affected with incurable mental diseases, with the exception of the war-wounded and. persons who had become insane as a result of air attacks. Among the group of persons who were excluded from mercy-killing, foreigners and Jews were certainly not mentioned. He stated furthermore that all measures against any misuse had been taken:
1) The various mental institutions (lunatic asylums) had to make a list of the persons affected with incurable mental diseases, and send this last to Berlin, "2) A commission of physicians would then visit the various mental institutions in order to examine the patients in question, "3) Only then there would an order from Berlin be given.
He did not explain the idea in any more detail, saying that these patients were to be transferred to institutions where the killing would be performed.
"At the end he showed us a large number of pictures showing individual patients before and after the killing, in order to demonstrate the moral justification of this program, as well as the fact that death was painless."
The affidavit goes on, but that is all that we wish to read at this time. Vie offer the Document NO-2253 as Exhibit 419. We will offer it to the Secretary-General as soon as defense counsel completed the examination of it.
THE PRESIDENT: The document will be received in evidence; and we will take our usual 13 minute recess.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the court room will please find their seats. The Tribunal is again in session.
MR. KING: I have been informed that the admission of NO 2253 as Exhibit 419 did not come through on the sound track. I wounder, therefore, if we could have it admitted again.
THE PRESIDENT: Exhibit No. 419 being document NO 2253, is admitted in evidence.
MR. KING: A few days ago the Document KG 457 which appears in Book 3-H was offered and accepted into evidence as Exhibit 20. That was on April 2. It appears that the document as offered was not complete, and we would at this time offer the remainder of that document. I am in doubt as to how we should have that numbered as an exhibit. It would seem to me that we should call it 201-A, if that is agreeable with the Court.
THE PRESIDENT: That would seem to be the logical way to handle it.
MR. KING: For the benefit of defense counsel who may not have the document before them, this is in connection with the Kaminska case and merely completes the case of the defendant of that case.
After defense counsel have examined the document to their satisfaction, we will offer the document NG 457 as Exhibit 201-A.
There apparently being no objection on their part, we now hand it up to the Secretary General.
THE PRESIDENT: It will be admitted in evidence.
MR. KING: The next document, which will become Exhibit 420 when received in evidence, is the document NG 179. This document consists of a number of separate documents, none of which we wish to read, and we will only briefly summarize the content of the entire document.
THE PRESIDENT: With what document book shall we identify that?
MR. KING: Excuse me. I did mean to point that out, too. May we suggest that that be placed as the last document in Book 5-A, as the last document in Book 5-A.
The document NG 179 concerns a trial which never, in fact, was held, of one Gruenspan. In 1939 the German ambassador to Franco was found murdered, apparently by gunshot wound, which apparently came from the real. In 1942 plans were made for a demonstration trial of the alleged murderer of vom Rath, one Gruenspan. The first document, or the first portion of document 179 is an outline of what is conceived to be a proper form of this demonstration trial of Gruenspan. There follows on Pages 4, 5, and 6 an outline of each day's program, which was to consume a week of the trial. The following few pages also concern the manner in which the trial should be held, and the final portion of the document is a statement as to the reasons why the trial should not be held.
We, as I said at the outset, do not wish to read extensively from this document, but we do point out to the Court that the Gruenspan case represents a trial which was to be conducted as a demonstration to show how world Jewry was operating against the tenets of National Socialism, and, then how that trial was postponed because of certain facts which it was feared the defendant Gruenspan might bring out if he took the stand. This trial was to have been an extraordinary session of the People's Court to be held in Paris, and at one time, as is evident from the document, Thierack was to preside at that trial.
We offer the document NG 179 as Prosecution Exhibit 420.
THE PRESIDENT: The document will be received in evidence.
MR. WOOLEYHAN: The prosecution calls as witness, one Henty Einstein.
JUDGE BLAIR: Do you take the American oath?
WITNESS: Yes, sir.
JUDGE BLAIR: Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give in this case will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
WITNESS: I do.
HENRY EINSTEIN
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. WOOLEYHAN:
Q. Witness, will you please tell the court your full name?
A. Henry Einstein.
Q. Where are you employed, Mr. Einstein?
A. I am employed in the Office of the U.S. Chief of Counsel for War Crimes.
Q. Here in Nurnberg?
A. Yes.
Q. How long have you been working here in Nurnberg for the Office of the U.S. Chief of Counsel for War Crimes?
A. I have worked for the OCC since October 1945.
Q. Since October 1945, when you say you commenced working here, was any portion of that work done in the International Military Tribunal?
A. Yes. Until the conclusion of the International Military Tribunal in October 1946, I worked for that organization,
Q. And since when you have worked for the Office of U.S. Chief of counsel for War Crimes?
A. Yes.
Q. In what capacity have you performed this work that you have just described?
A. I have always been a research analyst.
Q. In the course of your work as a research analyst since October 1945, here in Nurnberg, have you ever had occasion to do research work concerning concentration camps?
A. Yes.
Q. In the course of that research did you have occasion to ascertain the geographical locations of concentration camps?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you please stand up and face the wall map?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, witness, on that map of Europe represented on the wall, do you see any red dots which we assume represent the location of certain concentration camps. Do yon see any concentration camps that are located outside the German Reich? That is, outside of Germany.
A. Yes.
Q. Would you please point out as many as you can -- concentration camps that are outside of Germany. Name them, and designate the geographic location of each, and point as you do so, please. Start in any order that you like, as you see them there.
A. On the left side of -
Q. One moment, Mr, Einstein, please. For the purposes of the record, perhaps you should explain at the time you point to the geographical area to which you point.
A. On the left side of the chart, near the top, Hertogen Bosch, in the Netherlands, near the Belgian-Dutch frontier.
On the left bottom of the chart you have Natzweiler, in the French province of Alsace, slightly southwest of Strassbourg.
Here, you have Mauthausen, located in Austria, province of Upper Austria, slightly southeast of Linz.
Over here, you have Auschwitz, and various branch camps.
Auschwitz is in the vicinity of Cracow, in Poland, near the Czechoslovak-Polish frontier.
Over here, you have Majdanek, located in Galicia, which is a section of Poland.
Over here, you have Treblinka, southeast of Warsaw - therefore in Poland - east of Warsaw.
MR. WOOLEYHAN: Mr. Einstein, southeast of Warsaw....It is in Poland, is it not?
WITNESS: Yes, in Poland.
Then we have two camps north on this chart, which at present belong to the boundaries of Poland.
Up here, Stutthof, slightly east of Danzig.
And Gross Rosen, in Silesia, presently belonging to the boundaries of Poland.
MR. WOOLEYHAN: Mr. Einstein, from your research on the subject of concentration camps, do you see any concentration camp on that nap that you have just described, as far as its location is concerned, that is incorrectly located..... Generally?
WITNESS: No.
MR. WOOLEYHAN: Does the Tribunal have further questions?
THE PRESIDENT: For the purposes of the record, I think you should name those camps shown on the map which are within the German Reich.
MR. WOOLEYHAN: Yes. Witness, would you do that please?
WITNESS: Yes. Near the German-Czechoslovak frontier, east of Nurnberg, you have Flossenbuerg.
Slightly northwest of Munich, half way between Augsburg and Munich, you have Dachau.
Slightly east of Erfurt, province of Thuringia, you have Buchenwald.
South of Brunswick, Province of Lower Saxony, you have NOrdhausen, also called the Harz Region.
Near the German-Luxembourg frontier, you have Hinzert.
East of Dortmund, Province of Westphalia, you have Nieder hagen.
Slightly northeast of Hannover, you have Bergen-Belsen.
Slightly southeast of Hamburg, you have Neuengamme.
North of Berlin, and southwest of Stettin, in the Province of Pommerania, you have Ravensbruck.
And also north of Berlin, you have Sachsenhausen, Province of Brandenburg.
THE PRESIDENT: One more question, if I may.
You have referred to the Gross Rosen being in Silesia. Whatever may happen to the outer boundaries, the possible changes, that camp was in the Reich one?
WITNESS: That was in the Reich.
THE PRESIDENT: And the same is true of Stutthof?
WITNESS: Yes, Stutthof, East Persia.
MR. WOOLEYHAN: The prosecution has no further questions, your honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Has the counsel any further questions?
BY DR. KARL HAENSEN (for defendant Joel):
Q. Witness, do you know who made up this map... who drew this map?
A. I believe this chart was prepared by the American prosecution.
Q. And when was it made up?
A. I do not know the exact month; however, it was during the I.M.T. trial.
Q. That is, after 1945?
A. Well, after the beginning of the trial; or, I would say, in connection with the preparation of the trial.
BY DR. SCHILF (for defendants Klemm and Mettgenberg):
Only one question, in order to clarify the geographic situation.
Q. Witness, first you were asked which camps were outside of Germany. I would like to ask you to define the term "Germany" which you used in this question. "Outside of Germany" - that means, in regard to which borders of Germany? You were thus speaking when you began: Hertogenbosch, Natzweiler -- and then you went over to the East. You said these were the camps which were outside of Germany. Which borders of Germany determined---- at what time were you thinking of?
A. The German frontier of 1939. The beginning of the war. -- I have to correct myself. I would say, before the annexation of Austria, in 1938.
Q. And for the later time, could you describe the geographical situation a little bit more precisely?
A. After the annexation of Austria all the concentration camps located in Austria were, of course, not beyond the boundaries of Germany. After the annexation of Austria the concentration camps located in Austria formerly in that sphere, were in the boundaries of the German Reich.
Q. Can you tell me how it was about Natzweiler? What was this location?
A. Natzweiler, located in Alsace. Alsace was annexed by Germany after the Germany-French campaign.
Q. And how about Auschwitz?
A. Auschwitz is located in Poland. After the Eastern campaign Germany annexed parts of Poland, which became the German Generalgouvernment, and Auschwitz falls within those boundaries.
Q. Would you please repeat. The interpreter could not hear you?
A. Auschwitz is located in Poland. About one-half of Poland was annexed by Germany, incorporated into Germany, after the Eastern campaign, after the Polish campaign, and Auschwitz falls within the boundaries of the so-called "Generalgouvernment."
Q The same applies also to Majdanek, does it, or is that an exception?
A I believe the same goes for Majdanek.
Q Witness, a final question. On this chart, or map, the borders are marked in black. Can you tell me at what time these borders were in effect?
A Before the annexation of Austria, 1938.
DR. SCHILF: Thank you very much.
MR. WOOLEYHAN: No further questions, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness may be excused.
(witness excused)
MR. WOOLEYHAN: Your Honor, the Prosecution has nothing further to offer today. May we request an adjournment at this time?
THE PRESIDENT: We will adjourn at this time until tomorrow morning at 9:30 o'clock.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will adjourn until 2 May 1947 at the hour of 9:30 in the morning.
(Whereupon the Tribunal adjourned until 2 May 1947 at 0930 hours.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America, against Josef Alstoetter, et al., defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 1 May 1947, 0930 - 1630, Justice Carrington T. Marshall, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal No. III.
Military Tribunal No. III is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the court.
THE PRESIDENT: Marshal, you will please ascertain if all of the defendants are present in the court.
THE MARSHAL: May it please your Honors, all the defendants are present in the court room with the exception of the defendant Engert, who is absent due to illness.
THE PRESIDENT: The defendant Engert has been temporarily excused at his own request. The proper notation will be made.
MR. KING: May we ask the court to turn to the Document Book 9-B. Document Book 9-B, as was 9-A, is further addressed to Count IV of the Indictment. All of the documents physically in 9-B, as it has been circulated, pertain to either SS or SD activities of some of the defendants charged under Count IV. He should say a word to distinguish the records which are here presented from those presented in Document Book 9-A. The Personnel Records in 9-A were from the Personnel Section of the Ministry of Justice, while the personnel records presented here in 9-B are from the personnel files of the SS, who maintain their own personnel records' section. That is a partial answer, I think, to Dr. Haensel's query the other day as to where the balance of Joel's personal correspondence might be. It isn't a complete answer, but it is a partial answer.
The first document in Book 9-B, NG-748, will become, when formally offered, Exhibit 421. There are numerous letters of promotion from one position to another in this first document -- the SS records of the defendant Alstoetter -- and many of these, in fact most of them, we will not read or especially refer to.
We do point out on page 6, that on June 21, 1944, there is to be found what is perhaps the final promotion which the defendant Alstoetter received, and that was to SS-Oberfuehrer, in a statement which is signed by Himmler. There are also in these records letters which were sent to or received from the subject of the personnel record. We call the court's attention to page 17, a portion of a record from the personnel file in which we find it stated that the defendant Alstoetter was discharged from the Wehrmacht on 25 January 1943, because of his indispensability status, and that he was appointed Ministerial Director in the Reich Ministry of Justice on 1 February '43.
Then on page 28, we find what appears to be, at least the latter six years of promotions in the SS -- nine promotions in all -- starting out in 1938, the last one being on the 21st of June 1944. Then on page 29, we find a personnel questionnaire which the defendant himself has filled out and signed. We find on Page 36, a letter from Himmler recommending the promotion to Obersturmbannfuehrer as of April 20, 1943. The first paragraph may be of some interest to us. It states briefly his Wehrmacht record in this war -- in the second war -- and also stating that he is Ministerial Director of the Reich Ministry of Justice, and in charge of the Civil Suit Section there.
On page 42, we find a letter addressed from Alstoetter to Himmler and he says in part in this letter -- this is dated May 25, 1940:
"For 14 days I have had the good fortune to have been able to take part in our advance through Holland and Belgium as commander of a company belonging to an Infantry regiment, and to have a direct part in these great events.
"If I can contribute my small part towards helping our Fuehrer to accomplish his great task for the benefit of our nation, this causes me particular joy and satisfaction, especially in my capacity as SS Officer.
The morale and conduct of my unit are remarkable and we are fully confident that we shall accomplish the tasks assigned to us and emerge victorious from the decisive battle which still lies ahead. It is the pride of each man to be able to justify the trust of our Fuehrer, who has placed us in responsible posts by utter fulfillment of our duty and complete devotion to our cause."
There are other letters, which we will not read excerpts of at this time. We offer the entire document, NG-748, as Exhibit 421. I am mistaken as to the exhibit number; it is Exhibit 420 rather than 421.
THE PRESIDENT: I think you are mistaken. It should be 421, according to my records.
MR. KING: According to your records, Your Honor, what was 420?
THE PRESIDENT: That was NG-179.
MR. KING: It is 421. To again state it: we offer the Document NG-748 as Exhibit 421.
THE PRESIDENT: The document will be received in evidence.
MR. KING: As Exhibit 422, we introduce at this time the document NG-749, which document is the SS record of the defendant Engert. On page 53 of the English text, we find the record of Engert's service career in the SS dating from what appears to be the first promotion in 1935 through what appears to be the last promotion in 1944.
THE PRESIDENT: What page did you say?
MR. KING: On page 53 in the English text.
JUDGE BRAND: The exhibit starts on page 48?
MR. KING: It starts on page 49. There are a number of personal letters passing between Engert and Himmler, some of which we wish to read at this time. On page 58 of the English text, we find the letter from Engert to Himmler dated the 31st of December 1935. Engert writes: 2979 "I thank you, Reichsfuehrer, for the Christmas Candlestick and the accompanying lines.
The spirit permeating the SS is the guarantee that the Fuehrer's work is safeguarded. May that spirit, by tireless struggle, become the common property of the greater part of our people.
"Beyond that; may I, as one old party comrade to another, express my and my family's heartiest wishes for the New Year, to you and yours.
"The work of all of us, as before, shall only serve the Fuehrer and thus the movement and thereby, again our people.
"Heil to the Fuehrer, but woe to all his conscious and unconscious adversaries."
On page 59 tho personal questionnaire which was filled out, presumably, and actually signed by Engert.
On page 63 we find a short biographical sketch which Engert himself has written. I would like to read a portion of that beginning with the last paragraph on the bottom of page 63 in the English text: "In the Field I was also employed among other things as Educational Officer in 1917 and 18. At the beginning of 1920 I started my political activities by giving lectures with slides about the Dictate of Versailles. At the end of 1920 I joined tho NSDAP, and founded in Scheinfeld the first and oldest group of the Party in Mittelfranken. I received my first membership card on 15 April 1921 with the No. 3262. I met the Fuehrer already in 1920, I was repeatedly permitted to be together with him in personal conversation. In 1923 I was ready to march with the Scheinfeld Local Group. In September 1924 I visited the Fuehrer in Landsberg, and spent half an hour with him. Shortly afterwards I collected in my district 700 signatures to a petition to release tho Fuehrer, addressed to the Bavarian Government of that time. I did not join the "Voelkischer Block," but I propagated the idea of National Socialism in many meetings even after the Party had been forbidden. Moreover, with the approval of the Fuehrer, I worked in the Reich Chief Office for Home Service, and sopke at meetings. I again joined the Party at the end of 1926, my now membership card bears the number 57,331, and is dated 2 March 1927. In February 1928 I had the pleasure of twice receiving the Fuehrer and Party member Rudolf Hess in my home in Amberg; on occasion of the second visit the Fuehrer stayed at my home for several hours." We do not, of course, wish to read the rest of the letter against time.
We turn to page 79 and notice in the second column the cable which appears there of what appears to be a rather complete statement of his party activity. We find, among other things, that he was a frequent visitor to Nurnberg during the Party congresses held here.
On page 84... we return first to page 85 in the English text. This is a letter dated April 7, 1944, from Engert to Himmler. He states, "On occasion of our consultation I wanted to ask you, 1) to offer me an opportunity for ideological lectures (full time or part time) either at officer candidate schools (Junkerschulen), in the Waffen SS, in the camps or to racial Germans, etc.
2) to employ me in your counter-intelligence service;
3) to employ me in the Security Service (SD) (full time or half time). I have the qualifications of point 1, because I have made speeches for our movement since 1920; Reich spokesman of the NSDAP. As to the suggest tions of 2 and 3: In the course of my six years' activity at the People's Court I became acquainted with the designs and methods of the enemies of the state. The events which became known to me made me furthermore realize the necessity that the good old National Socialists have to rally closer and closer round the Fuehrer."
On page 84 we find a letter dated 4 June 1944 from Himmler to Engert which is fact accepts Engert's offer to act in the counter-intelligence and security service in his spare time.
On page 91 you will find a request to Engert to be issued a new SS uniform because of one he has been using to address in when he went out as Reich ordered is badly threadbare, and he needs a now one very urgently.
The letter on page 93 is a letter from Engert to Himmler following Himmler's gift to him on his birthday of a book. The final sentence in that letter we would like to read. Engert states: it is dated 1942 -October 14, 1942: "I believe the best way to maintain the loyalty sworn to the SS and to return my best thanks to you, will be by contributing, in whatever position I may be, my share to ensure that such virtues are never buried again."
On page 97 we find a letter from Engert to Himmler. This is dated 7 September 1940. We would like to call the Court's attention to the first paragraph in which Engert says, "You made me hope to be employed in your offices in case of longer duration of the war. As, in my opinion, the war perhaps will still last a longer time, I repeat my former request. I can justify it all the more, as I could only be employed in the Army as station commander, or commander of a prisoner camp, and for the next months the work in my senate shows a considerable decrease of political criminal cases."
Then on page 96 a letter from Himmler -- I am sorry, that is not a letter from Himmler. It is a letter to Dr. Thierack from the Chief of the SS Personnel Main Office in which the writer says," The Vice President of the People's Court, SS Oberfuehrer Karl Engert, SS No. 274, 658 has applied in a letter to the Reich Fuehrer SS to be assigned to the SS for the duration of the war. The Reich Fuehrer SS is prepared to grant this request."
Then on page 95 the reply of Thierack to the Chief of tho SS Personnel Main Office in which he states that the People's Court is extremely overburdened and overdone with work due to the enlargement of the Reich territory, so that a number of judges had to be transferred to the People's Court again, and he said it is difficult situation and I can not spare such a proven man as my vice president.
Page 101 in the English text, in an earlier letter from Engert to Himmler, in which he asks that he be transferred to the office of the president of the Munich Court of Appeals, which he understands will soon become available, and then he points out that another candidate who was also in line for the job became, a man by the name of Duerr, a member of the Party only after the seizure of power. Furthermore, again in contrast to Duerr, he said, "I believe I went through the entire practical judicial career holding the office of a Director of District Court and President at District Courts."
The letter on page 100 is tho reply, stating that the Fuehrer has been consulted on the matter, and it has been decided that Engert will stay in his then present position.
We find on page 105 a letter from Engert to the Staff of the Standarte in Regensburg, in which he says, "A closer connection between the secret state police and the Reich Ministry of Justice has proved necessary. For this reason I am to join the Staff of the Reich Leadership (Reichsfuehrung) of the SS in the service of the secret state police as a liaison agent. Therefore, I regret having to ask for my release from tho SA."
That is all of this particular document which we wish to call particularly to the Court's attention at this time, and we therefore, offer the document NG-749 as Prosecutor's Exhibit No. 422.
THE PRESIDENT: The document will be received in evidence.
MR. KING: The next document which we offer -- or introduce at this time is NG-747, which is a SS record of the defendant Joel, and will be when introduced and offered the next Prosecutor's Exhibit, No. 423.