If that is agreeable with lour Honors, then, I will jut read tho first page, the first two pages rather, because there is a recital in tho first document with reference to those that follow.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: You may, of course, read any part of it you see fit to road.
This certificate is made for the purpose of showing the authority of certain of the personnel of the Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes to administer oaths and properly to attest those affidavits which will be offered in evidence before the Military Tribunal for Case 7 in the United States v. Wilhelm List et al.
Pursuant to Executive Order 9547, 2 May 1945, attached her to as "Tab A", Executive Order 9679, 16 January 1946, attached hereto as "Tab B". Memorandum No. 15 of Office of Chief of Counsel, 29 March 1946, attached hereto as "Tab C", General Order No. 301 of the Military Governor, 24 October 1946, attached hereto as "Tab D", and letter, USFET, 24 October 1946,: Appointment of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, attached hereto as "Tab E", I am authorized, and have been since 29 March 1946, to prepare and prosecute charges of atrocities and war crimes against leaders of the European Axis powers and their accessories.
In discharge of the responsibilities conferred on me by the abovementioned orders and instructions, I have authorized and detailed members of my staff who are engaged with me in the preparation and prosecution of cases, including attorneys, interrogators, and other investigators and agents of the Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, to conduct interrogations and investigations and in the course of such interrogations and investigations to administer oaths.
Among those whom I have authorized to conduct interrogations and investigations and to administer oaths, with the effective date of their authorization, are the following personnel of Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes:
FRED KAUFMANN, U.S. Civilian, AGO Identification No. A-441649 Chief, Interrogation Branch, Evidence Division, Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, authorized 9 July 1946.
OTTO KREILSHEIM, U.S. Civilian, AGO Identification No. A-445900, Interrogator, Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, authorized 4 October 1946.
WALTER E. RAPP, U.S. Civilian, AGO Identification No. D-416367, Director, Evidence Division, Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, authorized 26 May 1946.
HENRY SACHS, U.S. Civilian, AGO Identification No. A-441698, Research Analyst, Office of Chief of Counsel for War Crimes, authorized 15 July 1946.
(signed) TELFORD TAYLOR, 22 August 1947 Brigadier General, US, Army Chief of Counsel for War Crimes
MR. DENNEY: At tho time the Greek film was shown tho certificate from Dr. Dimitsas was not available, and I now have the certificate and hand it to the Secretary General.
Dr. Fritsch has now returned from the Pohl case, and that concludes tho matters which we had with reference to miscellaneous matters, and Mr. Rapp will now continue with tho presentation of the evidence involving the Norwegian case.
MR. RAPP: If Your Honors will recall, yesterday, in connection with Document Book 23 there was some question as to the Jurat of some of tho documents which were marked for identification only. We are now submitting the necessary certifications, and as I shall come to each document I shall at that time make some comments which may be necessary. Norway No. 1, --- Norway No. I which has been marked Exhibit 511-A for identification, we will not present at this time. We just leave it as 511-A, and we will not further present it at this time.
Norway II, which has been marked for identification as Exhibit 512-A, and Norway V, which has been marked 516-A, and Norway XI, which has been marked as Exhibit 520-A, and Norway XII, which has been marked Exhibit 521-A,-I have given defense counsel a certificate pertaining to these documents. I promised this particular certificate to defense counsel last night. I didn't got it off of the mimeograph machine until about 12:30 this morning. I couldn't find defense counsel at that time any more, so I gave it to him at tho first opportunity this morning, and in view of the fact that we could not got together last night defense counsel informed mo this morning that ho would have to have until noon today before I can put in those documents which arc covered in connection with this certificate.
So I am now passing out to the ether defense counsels merely in order to keep their document book, up, although they have no connection with the Norwegian case, copies of this certificate, and after the noon recess I shall come back to this certificate and read the documents pertaining thereto into the record.
This particular document which I am having reference to now should be marked Exhibit 515-A, until such time as we present it as a document after the noon recess, so we mark it now for identification as Exhibit 515-A. This, Your Honors, is to be marked 515-A for identification.
I shall now pass out copies in English to the Honorable Tribunal, to the Assistant Secretary General, to the interpreters, the translators, and copies in German to the defense counsel and also copies to the court reporters.
If your Honors turn now, please, to page 17 of the English document book, and page 19 of the German document book, as your Honors will notice this particular document is offered in excerpt only. The original document appears in Norwegian. We have only translated the excerpt part into the English and the German language. I have meanwhile informed defense counsel that before the day is over I ill also furnish to him that part which is not being offered in evidence by the prosecution in tho German language, so that ho may avail himself of such translation if he wishes to do so, and defense counsel told me that was agreeable to him.
Defense counsel calls to my attention that the previous certificate which I have submitted to your Honors for identification, marked 515-A, docs not cover Norway document 5, which I had just reference to.
That of course, is correct and I was merely referring to one part, and this previous certificate, which, of course, has no bearing on that what I have just told the Court. As far as this document Norway 5 is concerned, which has been marked for identification as Exhibit 516-A, I should like now to submit this document to your Honors as Prosecution Exhibit 516, with the understanding that I will furnish defense counsel tonight that part which was not offered by us in evidence, but for his information.
DR. FRITSCH: Your Honors, I object to the submission of Norway 5 as an exhibit, for the same reasons which were discussed yesterday in reference to these documents. This is a report of the town engineer of Hammerfest, which in no wry moots the demands made by the rules of procedure regarding evidence. This is likewise not a document which has its origin in the investigations of a Government commission. Rather, it is a personal report of a private individual.
MR. RAPP: Your Honors, I was just about to hand to defense counsel the Jurat of this particular document we are submitting into evidence, and it is perfectly obvious that the document is all that that defense counsel says it is not, and I am just about ready to hand that to defense counsel. It was marked yesterday for identification as Document 516-A, and we arc submitting it now as document. The certificate that was in there yesterday was not withdrawn. It was still marked for identification, and we are putting it back as suck today, and I was just about to pass out to defense counsel and the court copies of the jurat. This particular document, Your Honor, of course, bears no particular document number, since it is in the original folder marked at present as Exhibit 516-A.
DR. FRITSCH: Your Honor, I don't want to protest against not keeping to the time limit of 24 -hours in this case, but I would like to ask mr. Rapp to use the same procedure as regards this document as in the other cases, and to discuss these matters in a final manner this afternoon. I have just only come into the possession of this Jurat, as your Honors have seen.
MR. RAPP: Your Honor, I appreciate defense counsel's concession on this particular instance. However, I believe there is a little difference on the other document. We had withdrawn the identification, and we were re-submitting it, and I had promised him to do that last night and I was unable to comply. This particular jurat has never been withdrawn, in other words, the document remains for identification with the Secretary General.
DR. FRITSCH: Your Honor, at any rate this is a supplement which to document 516-A submitted yesterday. This supplement has only boon submitted just now, and I believe it is only fair if in this case, the same procedure is adopted as with the other document.
JUDGE CARTER: The questions involved in this certificate seem to be similar to those in the other certificates. We think the position of counsel well taken, and it should at least go over until the afternoon recess.
MR. RAPP: Very well, Your Honor, The next document I am having reference to is Norway IX, which Your Honors will find on page 33. It is on page 36 of the German defense counsels' book. Norway IX was marked as 518-A -- 518-A, and in compliance with the desires of defense counsel I am now merely passing out the jurat and we shall return to it after the noon recess.
DR. FRITSCH: Your Honor, I would not object if in the case of this document we would already discuss the entire objection to this document. I don't believe that the confirmation of the signature of this document is very essential. This is an indictment originating in Norway. However, indictments in my view cannot be admitted as evidence. For this reason alone I believe this exhibit can not be admitted, and I am therefore taking care to object already at this juncture against its admission.
MR. RAPP: Your Honor, we submit that this particular document Norway IX is an official report of the representative of the Norwegian government to the United Nations War Crimes Commission in London, and was prepared during the war, and concluded toward the end of the War. We are submitting it under the rules of Ordnance No. VII, as an official Government report, and the Tribunal in admitting this particular piece of evidence is, of course, at their own discretion if they decide to give it any weight or how much of it they want to allocate to it, but I believe that it is in the nature of an official government report which was submitted to the United Nations War Crimes Commission.
DP. FRITSCH: Your Honor, may I point out that this document is super-scribed "Accusations", and thus it outwardly conform with the form of an indictment.
JUDGE CARTER: It is the opinion of the Tribunal that it is properly admissible in evidence. The fact it might contain such statements will not prevent it from being used. However, we are in agreement, no doubt, that the accusations don't have very much probative value before this Tribunal. I think probably if it is established that it is a document of the War Crimes Commission of the Norwegian Government that it will have to be admitted for what it is worth.
I think on that issue we will have to overrule the objection.
DR. FRITSCH: Your Honor, may I reserve stating my point of view until the time after the expiration of the limit for the document submitted today.
MR. RAPP: If the Court pleases, I should like to request the Marshal be requested to summon the witness Trygve Schance, S-c-h-a-n-c-e. Trygve, T-r-y-g-v-e, is his first name: Trygve Schance.
JUDGE CARTER: The Marshal is instructed to summon the witness.
Does the witness speak English?
MR. RAPP: The witness does not speak English, Your Honor.
JUDGE CARTER: The witness will be sworn.
I solemnly swear that the testimony I will give in the case on trial will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
JUDGE CARTER: You may sit down.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. RAPP:
Q What is your full name, witness?
A Trygve Schance. That is, T-r-y-g-v-e S-c-h-a-n-c-e.
MR. RAPP: May I inquire from the interpreter how it is intending to conduct this interpretation. In other words, are you going from Norwegian into the German or from Norwegian into the English, or viceversa.
INTERPRETER SCHAPF: I don't care, whichever way you prefer it. I can talk either English or German.
MR. RAPP: All right. I suggest I examine the witness in the German language, and you answer and translate in the German language, and the interpreters then can put it into English. I believe that will be more convenient all the way around.
Q When were you born, witness?
A 15 April 1907.
Q And where were you born, witness?
A In S-k-j-a-n-e-f-a, N-a-m-v-i-k.
Q Have you any family, witness?
A Yes, a wife and two children.
Q What is your profession, witness?
A I am police director in Polmak.
Q What was your schooling?
A Elementary school, secondary school, and I took a training course in the Civil Air Defense. I took a police training course in general mechanics. That is all.
Q Since when have you been director of Police in Polmak?
A I have been in Polmak since February 1, 1945.
Q In which part of Norway is the town of Polmak situated?
INTERPRETER SCHARF: Is the witness supposed to use the map?
MR. RAPP: Yes, if he can do so.
A Polmak is situated near the Finish frontier, that is the interior part of Finnmark.
BY MR. RAPP:
Q Thank you. Witness, what did you do before you became chief of police in Polmak?
A I was police sergeant-major in Vardoe.
Q Witness, where is the little town of Vardoe? You needn't point it out on the map.
A It is on the coast on the eastern part of Finnmark.
Q And how long were you there? Since when?
A I had taken up my position in Vardoe on the 15th of June 1935.
Q And witness, if I have understood you correctly, you left on the first of February 1945 pud went to Polmak from there, is that correct?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q During the time of the occupation were you in that little town of Vardoe?
A Yes, at that time I was in Vardoe.
Q Witness, what was your task as an inhabitant of the town of Vardoe during the time of the occupation? What did you do?
A I had to deal with criminal matters since I was a police official.
Q Witness, can you give us some more details briefly? It is a rather large concept, criminal matters.
A I had to deal with theft and violations of the law on the part of the civilian population.
Q Witness, was the town of Vardoe during the time you stayed there destroyed in connection with the war?
A When the Germans retreated, we calculated that between 80 to 85 per cent of the town had been destroyed.
Q When did the Germans withdraw, witness?
A They left Vardoe the first days of November 1944.
Q Was it the first time that you heard of a retreat or had seen a retreat?
A I was not in Vardoe at the time the retreat was taking place.
Q Where were you, witness?
A I was in Skajanes (spelling) S-k-j-a-n-e-s.
Q Would you like to point out to us now on the map, Vardoe and Skjanes?
A (Indicating) It is on the west side of the Tana Fjord.
Q How did you learn of the retreat in Skjanes?
A On the 30th of October 1944, I talked over the telephone with my mother-in-law. She is living in Finnkonckeila (spelling) F-i-n-nk-o-n-c-k-e-i-l-a. She told me that on the same day a. German detachment had. been in the town of Finnkonckeila, and I must add. here that no other German troops were in Finnkonckeila. These Germans told the population that the little town was to be burned and. that the population was to be evacuated in boats. The population had decided in the meantime not to go away. They did not want to evacuate the town, and they began at once to leave for the mountains. The Children's Home had been transferred to Finnkonckeila from Vardoe at some previous date, there were 23 children from the ages of 1 to 15 years, and we had 4 women looking after these children. My mother-in-law wanted to know whether I could possibly help to take these children from Finnkonckeila to a safer place, and I answered that I would do that. Eleven young men apart from myself accompanied me. They also were prepared to go to Finnkonckeila across the mountains in order to do that. At 6 o'clock in the morning on the 31st of October, we began our trip and went to Finnkonckeila. We arrived in Finnkonckeila at about 2 or 3 o'clock in the afternoon. The population had already tone into the mountains overlooking the village. A German detachment had arrived in Finnkonckeila in a motorboat and stayed near the village.
I saw that boxes of dynamite were taken from the boats to shore and also cans with gasoline.
I went down into the little town and one of my comrades accompanied me. It was my intention to obtain clothing which I had previously sent to the house of my mother-in-law, and so it happened that I struck up a conversation with the leader of this German detachment. It was a German lieutenant. I asked him whether it was true that this town was to be burned. He answered, "Yes, this place is to be blown up. This is not only to happen here, but in the whole of Finnmark." And he added that the population was to be sent to the south in small boats. I asked him then what would happen if the population should decide to go to the mountains. He answered that afterwards a detachment would arrive which has the task of fetching the population.
He said those who should refuse to come along would be arrested and would be taken into German captivity, and they would also risk being shot. We were told that we had to leave the place at once because the blowing up and burning down was to begin at once. We went back to the camp then which the people had in the mountains. The other ten who had been with me had begin to make preparations in order to take the children away with them over the rocks. At about half-past three in the afternoon, they began their detonations and the burning down of the houses. There were three fish processing factories, producing all kinds of fish products, these three installations were blown up as the first with dynamite. And the Germans went from house to house with their cans of gasoline. They went into the houses, remained there for a moment, then came out again, smashed the windows with the buts of their rifles, and a moment or two later the houses began to go up in flames. The procedure of the Germans was quite systematical, that is to say, they went from house to house.
I was sitting up above the village and looked at what was going on until about 5 o'clock in the afternoon. At five o'clock, the whole place which is situated in a gorge was a sea of flames. Two houses were some distance from the village, and those two houses were not in flames when I left. It is at that time we began our retreat to Skjanes with the children. We had a very strenuous trip with these children. The smallest had to be carried on our backs. The way back took us 18 hours. We arrived at Skjanes at 12 o'clock noon, on the 1st of November 1944.
The children were very badly dressed, only thin shoes, and they were badly equipped for such a trip. We lodged the children in the school building of Skjanes. In the evening of the same day, that is on the first of November 1944 at about 11 or 11:30 at night, a German landing craft arrived in Skjanes. A number of German soldiers and marines disembarked from this boat. The first thing they did was that they put fire to the warehouse in Skjanes.
Soldiers were posted around the village, and others went and told the population that they would have to be on the landing craft within, at the latest, one hour. The leader of this detachment was a German lieutenant. This officer went to the school building in which the children were, and he ordered that all these children should instantly be brought to the boat. The superintendent of these children's home came running to my house which is situated about three or four hundred yards from the school, and they asked me to try to intervene with the Germans so that the children would not have to be taken to the boat. I went along with them and talked to the lieutenant. He said that his order was that he was to collect these people and my objections and my pleas not to do this were of no interest to him. He said exactly the same regarding what was to happen as the lieutenant with whom I had talked in Finnkonkeila, and he also said that those who possibly remained behind would either be made prisoners of war of the Germans or could possibly also be shot on the spot. This conversation took place on the stairs outside of the school building in which the children were lodged.
It was night and the children were in their beds, and the officer ordered that his soldiers should at once start taking the children to the ship. I saw that the children were taken out of their beds without any opportunity of putting on clothes, and they were taken to the ship as they were without any further ado. The bigger children were usually successful in putting on some of their clothes, and they were also taken to the ship. I then saw that I could do nothing here. I left this house and went back to the house in which I lived, and where my wife, my mother, and my children were living. I was stopped by the German lieutenant when I was going back, and he told me to stop, turn back, and go to the boat. I pointed out to the lieutenant that I was in my pajamas and that I only had an overcoat, apart from that, and slippers. And I also told him that he should give me an opportunity to prepare myself better for such a trip, and that also I had a family after which I had to look.
He ordered a soldier to take me to the boat at once. I pointed out to him that he himself had posted sentries around the village which were to see to it that the whole population was to board the ships, and I thought If there were such sentries around the village there would not be any harm if I could go back to the house and prepare myself for the trip and for my family. Thereupon he gave me permission to do that. I went back to my house, and the soldier who had been there said the same, that an hour at the latest we should be on the boat, and that we should prepare ourselves for that.
During the time that remained to us we succeeded in leaving our house and getting into the mountains. Later it appeared that the rest of the population had done the same -- that is, had taken to the mountains.
I want to know your attention to the fact that the country around SKjanes is very rough. It is very easy to hide one's self there and to get away from the place.
This ship of which I have spoken previously left in about one hour had only the children were on that boat and the people who had looked after the children.
MR. RAPP: Witness, the Judge wants to say something.
PRESIDENT JUDGE CARTER: We will take our morning recess at this time.
(A recess was taken)
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will be seated.
The Tribunal is again in session.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: You may proceed.
BY MR. RAPP:
Q Would you please carry on with your report?
AAs I have already said, we went into the mountain in order to escape from the German forced evacuation. I would like to point out here that the places which I mentioned before such as Skajanes, Finnkonjkeila, et cetera, were on the Nurfen Peninsula and there are no road communications there.
The next day it was the 2nd of November an armed fishing boat came to Skjanes, a kind of auxiliary war ship. Germans landed from the ship and then they started to burn down houses and the village. The civilian population was then in the mountains in the neighboring district. Since we saw that the Germans were starting to bum down the village, we tried to come as near to the village as possible in order to see what was going on.
The same thing happened which happened in Finnkonjkeila. Explosive stuff such as gasoline was taken into the houses. The windows were broken and soon after this the houses burst into flames.
Those domestic animals which the population were not able to bring into safety were taken by the Germans. Some of them were slaughtered on the spot. Others were taken on to the ship.
As I have already said, we collected in the mountains and after all we had there a camp in which we were collected. None of us had more with us except that which we carried on our bodies and we were gathered there together. We were altogether 130 people. The eldest was 86 years old. The youngest was a girl 4 days old. This little girl and the mother of this child we had taken on a stretcher into the mountains shortly before the buring started.
For three days we stayed out in the open and in the meantime we tried to erect some kind of houses. We build a kind of house which we call up there a "Gamme". That is a house made from turf.
After these three days we succeeded in building sufficient houses and to develop these houses sufficiently in order to get into them. We had very little to eat and we had very few clothes.
What we had to eat was mostly cattle which we slaughtered, cattle which we had saved from the Germans. We were there in the mountains for 17 days. In the first days, while we we re there, we saw continuously, German ships coming from and going into the Fjord, and German aircraft which flew over our heads. We had no communications with other villages, neither telephones nor roads.
We knew that Finnkonjkeila had been burned to the ground. We had seen the sea of flames in Berlevaag. We sent small patrols of two or three men to Gamvik, and Mehamn to see what was happening there, and we discovered there that these villages were completely destroyed, that they had been blown up and burned down, and that the population had been compulsorily evacuated to the south.
From the 17th of November, a German motor boat came from Batsfjord, and we discovered there how conditions further east in Finnmark were. I went with the motorboat when it went back east, and came in this way as far as Vardoe.
Q Witness, one moment please. Was it a German or Norwegian motorboat?
A It was a Norwegian motor boat.
Q Thank you very much.
A In that way I got to Vardoe, where I worked. After all, I had a job. I got there on the 19th of November. My job was to collect information about the population which had remained behind, so that we could help them. It turned out that we had a few Norwegian motor boats left, boats which we had succeeded in saving. So far as it was possible, to use these motor boats to transport the people who were still in the open, we did this, but it must be remembered that the German control had to be avoided.
In addition my job was to interrogate people who came from West Finnmark. It turned out that there also a few motor boats had been saved. As soon as it became a little quieter there, - as soon as there weren't so many German ships there, these boats, -- those motorboats, - started out to eastern Finnmark. There were also boats coming from Lofoten.