A. As to operations I was in no position to pass any judgments because I was not responsible for operations. Therefore, I could not give him any restrictive directives, because I had no opportunity to do this.
However, you did not read the preceding sentence which follows the second sentence. You only said, inasmuch as he does not receive any orders from the Military Commander, but the decisive part is the preceding sentence where it says that directives and instructions for his tasks he will receive from the Reich Fuehrer SS, and within the scope of these tasks he is in a position to carry them out independently and then comes the annexation, and the next little sentence.
Q. In the second sentence you were permitted to override and restrict the policies and directives which Schimana received from Himmler, were you not?
A. I applied this sentence in the one case which I related on direct examination when I said that the setting up of indigenous units was the concern of the Higher SS and Police Leader, but I dealt with the total program because the extent of this program concerned the security of the occupation power.
I did not apply these restricting directions in any case, nor did I think I was entitled to do so, because I very carefully avoided interfering in matters of the Reichsfuehrer SS. That would have been a hopeless undertaking in that particular case because the contrast Wehrmacht SS existed, it was my opinion and attitude to leave the competencies of both spheres entirely divided because only one or the other part can be held responsible. If the Reichsfuehrer SS orders something, and I interfere in these orders I become co-responsible for a measure which I had not caused, and to which I might possibly be strongly opposed. I was, therefore, in favor of a strict separation of spheres of competency; particularly so in this case.
Q. Before we talk about what you actually did do, General, I think we ought to get it quite clear what you were authorized to do. Is it not true that from reading this order of procedure, you as Military Commander were restricted in only two ways. First, you were restricted in the sense that you were only a conduit for tactical orders which came from Army Group E to Schimana, and secondly, you were restricted in the sense of the second paragraph under Paragraph 5, in that you were authorized to employ units of the Ordungs police only with the permission of Schimana, and that except for those two limitations upon your power, Schimana was subordinate to you in police matters, and you could give him directives which take precedence over other directives and even directives which would restrict him from carrying out previous directives which he had received from Himmler.
A. No, Mr. Fenstermacher, here our opinions are divergent. I would like to read the decisive sentence again to which I refer, and that is paragraph 7 where it says the Higher SS and Police Leader receives policies and directives for the execution of these duties, i.e., police matters, from the Reichsfuehrer SS and Chief of German Police, and he will carry them out independently.
I would like to stress this last word, "independently". In order to make my own attitude quite clear and in order to contrast it with yours, I would like you to allow me to clarify my own opinion again, and this opinion refers to what rights I had under this service regulation. I had the authority, (a) to commit the forces of the Higher SS and Police Leader in band combat, if one can call it commitment, by assigning him an area and in this area he had to work independently on his own responsibility.
Even this possibility did no longer exist for me, as I have pointed out on direct examination, because I did not dispose over any area, and therefore Army Group E took over this task of assigning an area. The second task was the carrying out of the security measures which were dated prior to this task of fighting the bands, i.e., those measures which fell within the scope of the two months I discussed earlier on this morning.
Thirdly, he was subordinate to me as every other unit in Greece, be it police or Wehrmacht Unit, in a territorial respect.
By this I mean the troops were bound to my directives, where territorial demands and instructions by me were concerned, and I have stated in great detail, which these territorial instructions were. This comprised my task and I adhered to it.
Q. Do you believe the subordination mentioned in paragraph 2 is related only to the conduit relationship which you had between Army Group E and Schimana, outlined in paragraph 4, and the territorial subordination which all other units in your area of command had to you?
A. Yes, indeed.
Q. Your task, General Speidel, was to maintain public order and security in your area of your command, was it not?
A. That was my task, among other things. It was the task of all German elements in Greece; that was the task concern of the tactical leadership; the task of the Military Commander, and it was the task of the Higher SS and Police Leader. Everybody had this task within the framework of his sphere of duty.
Q. The maintenance of public order and security for a person who has no troops which he is able to command, by way of tactical operations against the partisans, is essentially a police task, is it not?
A. It is a police task, if one has police forces subordinated for this task. However, I did not have these police forces subordinated to me. As I explained before, they were subordinate to the Higher SS and Police Leader. In the final analysis I only had the field gendarmerie as police forces at my disposal, the field gendarmerie that was with the administrative sub-area headquarters, by way of indirect subordination.
Q. Could this be the meaning of the assignment of the Police and SS Leader to Greece, namely that of General Speidel was assigned the task of maintaining public order and security, which is essentially a police task, he must therefore have assigned to him police forces, and so we shall therefore assign to him the police forces under General Schimana to which we have just referred?
A. That would be a very natural explanation if conditions in the German Reich had been normal ones which they were not in actual fact. If a Military Commander in any country receives police forces for his disposal, then of course they ought to have been subordinate to him, but in the Third Reich that was not a matter of course, because the Reichsfuehrer SS had a dominating position on the highest level. He was more powerful than the OKW, and was very jealously concerned about the fact that the units under him retained their independence if they were employed, -- if they were committed in any occupied territory.
Mr. Fenstermacher, I would like to say in this connection what I believe I have stressed before, that I was one of those Military leaders who personally looked after everything they were responsible for. If I had considered myself responsible for these things, you may be sure that I would have concerned myself with it because I concerned myself with everything but only to the extent that this was necessary according to the extent of my responsibility.
Q I take it, General, that if Schimana rather than you had the German police subordinate to him, he also had the Greek police subordinate to him?
A The Greek police were exclusively subordinate to Schimana. He, or rather his predecessor, Strob, had received this assignment from the Reichsfuehrer SS. It was his task to organize and train the Greek police and to establish indigenous units. I was never the person who gave him an order to do this.
I might submit evidence for this statement in a public announcement of the Higher SS and Police Leader where he announces this intention to the Greek population, and that was a proclamation made without my knowledge, let alone my consent. It was therefore an exclusive task of the Higher SS and Police leader which had been invested in him by the Reichsfuehrer SS. I will admit for a man thinking along the normal organizational lines, it is difficult to understand these things that to a certain extent you have to believe me who had to work under these conditions.
Q If the Greek police were not subordinate to you in Athens, I do not suppose the Greek police were subordinate to the various subarea headquarters which were subordinate to you out in the areas distant from Athens. You mentioned seven of them, I believe.
A Yes, there were 7 administrative sub-area headquarters, and one higher sub-area administrator headquarters and an orderly connection between the sub-area administrative headquarters, and the indigenous units of the Higher SS and Police Leader did not exist to the best of my knowledge.
Q Did administrative sub-area headquarters have the Greek police operating in these areas under their command and jurisdiction?
A Whether I had Greek police there?
Q No, I am asking whether your seven sub-area headquarters had Greek police subordinate to them?
A The Greek police was officially subordinated by order of procedure or directives.
I would assume that they worked together on a local basis but the Greek police were exclusively subordinate to the Higher SS and Police Leader, and this by the Greek Government. The sub-area administrative headquarters had their own executive agencies.
Q Would you turn now, General, to your own document, book No. 3, at page 39?
A Yes.
Q These are the service regulations which you issued to your administrative sub area headquarters on the 16th of October 1943, that is to say, only 5 days after you yourself received the order of procedure governing the relationship between you and General Schimana. Will you turn to page 41 in paragraph 5? There you state-
DR. WEISSGERBER: Your Honor, I object to the reference to this document, because I have not yet offered this document in evidence in the case for Speidel.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: My book shows that this has been introduced as Exhibit 16, Your Honor.
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: My book shows it also bears the Exhibit number 16.
DR. WEISSGERBER: Your Honor, I beg your pardon in that case.
BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q You state there, General Speidel, in paragraph 5, that your various administrative sub area headquarters commander will supervise within this area, the entire civilian administration, including the Greek administrative inpertorates and police authorities?
A Yes, that is correct, and I can explain it, Mr. Fenstermacher.
First of all this provisional order of procedure is merely a provisional one as the term states, which was for the moment issued without any particular experience, so that a basis could be established for the work to be carried out.
And now let's turn to paragraph 5. It says there that the sub-area administrative headquarters were to supervise the whole of this civilian administration, tis for the purpose that the administration could be maintained, and could be on the basis of a legal order.
It says here that Greek administrative police forces are to be concerned here, and this term is further explained. It is to be subdivided into Army-
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: I think it will be necessary for you to repeat part of that. You may proceed.
A I said, the sub area and administrative headquarters were to supervise the civilian administration and part of the civilian administration was the so-called administrative police, and this administrative police is subdivided in this particular paragraph as traffic, aliens, sickness, trade, fire, hunt, and field police and all of these forces of the purely civilian administration. So far I always understood, by police troops ready for police assignments at the disposal of the Greek Government, the so-called Evzones battalions and other police units which were committed for the maintenance of law and order.
The ones mentioned here are purely administrative agencies of the local administration, and the two complexes have nothing to do with each other.
Q Suppose one of the members of the Greek traffic police, or aliens police, mentioned here, had been shot, would your administrative sub-area headquarters authorize the execution of retaliation measures in reprisal for such an attack?
A No, it would not have been entitled to do that, because as I stated on direct examination, the ordering of reprisal measures were reserved for my own person, so that the sub-area administrative headquarters could not commit any hasty acts.
Q Would you turn now, General Speidel, to page 40 of Speidel Book No. 3. You state there that units of the SS Higher and Police Leader stationed within the area of the administrative sub area headquarters are bound to assist those administrative sub area headquarters upon request. By the words, "bound to assist" do you mean that if the administrative sub-area headquarters insisted upon the help of the police under the SS leader, that the SS police would have to come to their assistance from a mandatory and compulsory standpoint?
A Mr. Fenstermacher, when I incorporated this document into my own document book, I knew very well that you would ask me about that particular part. This passage represents to me a proof of the fact that a relation of subordination did not exist between the sub area administrative headquarters and the organization of the Higher SS and Police leaders. The very sentences on this page which you quoted, prove that they co-existed independently of each other, or otherwise it would have been mentioned here that they became subordinate, but at the sub-area headquarters would have been subordinate to the Higher SS and Police Leader.
In actual practice it was thus that a unified administrative organization was not possible in the occupied areas because the Police force insisted on its independence, and so the strange picture, resulted that in the area of a sub area administrative headquarters, there is an agency of the Higher SS and Police Leader, and that is the so-called base.
What it is supposed to do and what its tasks were, how strong it was, I cannot tell you, and their words, "bound to assist" mean the following:
If unrest occurs, if the sub area administrative headquarters would be attacked or raided, then of course the police unit is bound to help and to assist. To the best of my knowledge, there was no cooperation, no working together, only working next to each other.
In the second paragraph of this document, you can read the sentence, the already mentioned police units work together. This is a fixed term, a technical term in German military language and describes cooperation as if it was most casual. That is everywhere, where with the best will in the world, there can be no clear organization or channel of command. Then one avoids the proper regulation with the vague words, "should work together".
Q Suppose, General Speidel, that a Greek mayor or a Greek who was employed for the Germans in the area of one of your seven administrative area headquarters had been murdered, and your administrative sub area headquarters did not have the manpower to carry out reprisal measures. By virtue of the authority you gave your field headquarters in this paragraph, couldn't they ask and demand the help of the SS units in their area to carry out such reprisal measures and that such SS units had to, -- were compelled to assist them in that connection?
A If I had ordered a sub area administrative headquarters to carry out reprisal measures, then they would on principle have to refer to the nearest unit for the carrying out of this measure, and those police units were not an actual troop unit. They were administrative units, and I can therefore not tell you exactly what is meant by this term, because I have never seen such a strong point of police units.
Q.- Let's take the relationship between the Sub-Area Administrative Headquarters. If, for example, one of your Sub-Area Administrative Headquarters -- say the one in Larissa -- had reprisal measures to carry out, they could ask an demand the assistance of the SS units in the course of carrying out such reprisal measures. If the Sub-Area Administrative Headquarters had that relationship between the SS units in their area why was that not the same relationship which you and Schimana had in Athens, namely, because that you didn't have enough troops or forces subordinate to you to carry out reprisal measures you would have had to ask Schimana's assistance.
A.- Mr. Fenstermacher, when you put this question you started from the wrong assumption. You said if the Sub-area Administrative Headquarters Larissa had needed any help the police would have been under an obligation to give this assistance. I did not put it that way. My answer before was that in such cases the Sub-area Administrative Headquarters would refer to the nearest troop units. I don't even know whether a police unit was stationed in Larissa. Such a headquarters or strong point was there, but I would feel inclined to doubt that there were any troops connection with it because the 18th Police Regiment was committed for tactical purposes. In this respect your question was not quite correct.
Q.- Don't you say, in Paragraph 1 of this order of the 16th of October 1943 to your Sub-area Administrative Headquarters, which follows just five days after the receipt of the order of procedure for Schimana, which you received on the 11th of October, that the SS units are bound to assist the Sub-area Administrative Headquarters on the latter's request? If that was the relationship between the Sub-area Administrative Headquarters and the SS units in this area, wasn't there a parallel relationship between you and Schimana in the City of Athens?
A.- There were two errors contained in this question, Mr. Fenstermacher. You are referring to the order of procedure which I had already received in September, not only four days before I issued this Service Regulation.
It was issued on the 15th of September; when it reached me I can't tell you. I know what you are referring to when you mention the 11th of October, but that is merely the passing on of the order by the Commander in Chief Southeast to the leading Field Director, but it is not addressed to me.
Q.- Do you believe you received the order on the 11th of September?
A.- Yes, that's what I wanted to say. I received it much earlier. The second error is that this is not a troop which could be used for assistance because the Police Regiment, which was the only actual troop in the area, had been tactically committed. Try as I may, I cannot define for you how strong such a police headquarters in a province was, because I just don't know. If operations take place any where, if there are any difficulties, unrests, insurrections, I don't think I can expect, even if the conditions and situations are not quite clear, that one unit will not assist another if people are attacked and massacred.
Q.- General Speidel, you referred on direct-examination to three occasions on which you pardoned certain persons who were in the prisons in Athens. They are all found in your Document Book No. III. Wasn't the pardoning of persons committed of crimes a police function?
A.- The pardoning is not a police function. It is the right of the Military Judicial. Those were perpetrators who had committed crimes or offenses against the German Armed Forces, and for that reason were sentenced to a certain punishment by my court, and I, as judicial, had confirmed this sentence, and the persons concerned were in the prison in Athens. It was my right and authority to pardon them. This is a judicial right, but not a police right.
Q.- Most of those persons in the prison were placed there after arrest by German or Greek or perhaps Italian police were they not?
A.- Not by the German police -- by the German agency or Field Police.
We must make a difference here -- not the SS, but the Field Police or Field Gendarmerie.
Q.- Were they subordinate to Schimana?
A.- They had nothing to do with Schimana.
Q.- If Schimana was in control of both German and Greek police would he not have been concerned with the question of who was arrested and for what crimes, and who was put in the prisons and who was pardoned?
A.- Schimana had, concerning all questions of a judicial type which touched on the interests of the Armed Forces, nothing to do whatsoever. I was the judicial in the Greek area where the interests of the Wehrmacht were concerned, and I did not allow anybody to interfere in this right, nor was, at any time, an attempt made to do this.
Q.- You stated, General Speidel, that you knew nothing about the concentration camp Chaidari I believe.
A.- I said that I knew that a police camp or prison did exist. What it looked like, where it was located, I did not know. I know of the fact that it existed, particularly so because in various instances I made representations to Schimana in order to liberate a number of people whom he had arrested. But I, as well as everybody else -- let us say the Greek Prime Minister, or the German envoy -- could come to him only making a request and tell him, "I would like to talk for a certain person," with the idea that he could perhaps do something about it. But I was in no position to give him orders in this purely police sphere of tasks. Just as little could orders be given by a deputy commanding general in Germany to a Higher SS and Police Leader. There could be no orders of this sort. That would be the parallel to it.
Q.- Weren't these persons who were pardoned confined in Chaidari?
A.- The prisoners were all accommodated in the so-called "prison", which was a modern Greek jail, and German soldiers were also kept in prisons. This prison was under me and under my responsibility. I inspected it on several occasions and found it in order, which again proved that I concerned myself with anything with which I was held responsible.
And the men in charge of the prison made regular oral reports to me about the conditions there -- the food situation, etc.
Q.- Didn't Prime Minister Rhallis, who, as one of your affiants stated, make protestations to you about Chaidari or any other concentration camp?
A.- It is correct that Rhallis came to see me regularly. I would like to say at least once a week, in view of one close cooperation. However, I cannot remember one single case where he mentioned Chaidari or even complained about conditions there. Rhallis knew far too well that in such questions, if he had complaints, he would have had to turn to the Higher SS and Police Leader immediately. In this particular sphere he worked together with him directly and immediately. Rhallis, as Minister of the Interior, was also responsible for Greek police units.
Q.- Weren't there any other concentrations in or near Athens that you knew about?
A.- I don't know of any.
Q.- Would you look at Page 85 of your Document Book No. III, General Speidel? There Constantin Logothetopoulos, who I believe you said was the Prime Minister of Greece preceding Rhallis, states that you gave a lecture at Deggendorf Concentration Camp.
A.- Yes.
Q.- Where is the Deggendorf Concentration Camp?
A.- That was an American Concentration Camp, in Natternberg, which I mentioned yesterday. And Prime Minister Logothetopoulos was in this concentration camp, and I was there together with him.
Q.- You called it a prison. He calls it a concentration camp. They were both the same?
A.- Well, yes, he called it that. I didn't write this affidavit.
Q.- Do you know now, General Speidel, that the concentration camp at Chaidari was only eight kilometers from the City of Athens?
A.- I know where Chaidari is situated on the map, and I know quite well how it happened that I knew where Chaidari was because I did archaeological research there. But perhaps I might recall the affidavit of the Commandant of the Sub-area Administrative Headquarters in Athens who confirmed that it was only July 1944 when he learned of the camp in Chaidari, a man who ought to have known the area around Athens bettor than I did.
Q.- Returning now for a minute to the question of whether any police troops were subordinate to you, would you turn to your Document Book I, to Page 11?
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: I think, Mr. Fenstermacher, if you simply wish to identify it at this time that will be all right, but we will not proceed with any inquiry with respect to it until after the noon recess.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Very well, Your Honor.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: The Tribunal will stand in recess until 1:30 this afternoon.
(The Tribunal recessed at 1215 to resume at 0130).
AFTERNOON SESSION
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Courtroom will please be seated.
The Tribunal is again in session.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: Mr. Fenstermacher, before you resume the cross-examination the Tribunal is prepared to submit its decision on the matter of the application for the Defendant von Weichs, with regard to a deposition.
The Chief of Counsel for War Crimes has moved the Tribunal for an order to require the defendant Maxmillian von Weichs, a defendant in the case at bar, to submit his testimony by deposition in lieu of his personal appearance as a witness.
The motion is based on the following facts: On 6 October 1947, the defendant von Weichs became ill and, on motion of his counsel, he was permitted to absent himself from the trial for the purpose of obtaining hospitalization. This was done with an understanding made in open court that it was to be without prejudice to either the prosecution or the defense. The defendant has remained in the hospital continuously since 6 October 1947 and it has been ascertained that he will not be able to appear in court in his own behalf before the present trial is concluded. We find further that said defendant is mentally competent to testify and to give testimony in the form of a deposition. The record discloses that defendant von Weichs was present in court during the presentation of the prosecution's case in chief and has been confronted by all witnesses.
In ruling upon the motion presented the Tribunal will assume that the purpose of the motion is to require the defendant von Weichs to continue as a defendant even though he is unable to be present in court because of physical disability and to be required to submit his testimony by deposition if he desires to become a witness.
Article 12 of the Charter annexed to the London Agreement of 8 August 1945 provides that proceedings against a person charged with a war crime may be had in Ms absence if he has not been found or if the Tribunal finds it necessary in the interests of justice to conduct the hearing in his absence.
We are of the opinion that the interests of justice do not require that the defendant von Weichs be required to submit his testimony by deposition to avoid a suspension of the present proceeding as to him. The Charter, Control Council Law No. 10 and the established rules of procedure contemplate that each defendant shall receive a fair and impartial trial. One of the most fundamental concepts of such in a criminal trial is the right to appear personally in court and answer the charges made against him. If illness intervenes and makes it impossible for a defendant to appear only the most cogent reasons necessary to the interests of justice would authorize a denial of that right. When flight or contumacy prevent his appearance, an altogether different question is presented.
Whether this defendant is tried now or at some future time is of no particular moment insofar as the interests of justice are concerned. The defenses submitted by other defendants are in no manner jeopardized nor is the prosecution's case made any less effective. The right of the defendant to appear in his own behalf appears to be paramount to any necessity based on the interests of justice here shown. For the reasons stated, the motion will be overruled.
You may proceed, Mr. Fenstermacher.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Thank you, Your Honor.
WILHELM SPEIDEL - Resumed CROSS-EXAMINATION - Continued BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q General Speidel, before the luncheon recess we were discussing the question of whether you had any police troops subordinate to you, either directly or by way of Schimana. And were were looking particularly at your own Document Book No. I, at Page 11. In Paragraph 2 of that affidavit of General Winter's, who was, at that time, Chief of Staff of Army Group E -- that is at the time when you were Military Commander of Greece.
He states that the Commander in Chief of Army Group E could give tactical directives to the Military Commander Greece. That is, he could issue orders affecting the forces under the command of the Military Commander Greece, mostly police and other troops.
Do you know why General Winter is there attributing to you command of police and other troops?
A Well, that's quite obvious, Mr. Fenstermacher, but it can only be understood in connection with what he says afterwards in this paragraph. It is quite obvious here that he speaks of the first period of time which, as I said before, lasted from approximately the end of August until the end of November 1943. That was the period of time when the Police Regiment 18 was first alone, and, then including the Higher SS and Police Leader, was put at my disposal for security tasks as specified to safeguard the roads leading from the north into the area. Then we come to a second period of time, which is mentioned on Page 12. It says there in Paragraph 4: "In order to guarantee a rational commitment of all forces and assure a unified tactical command, the Commander in Chief of Army Group E may use his powers in assigning a regular area to tho Higher SS and Police Loader and his Police Alpine Regiment 18, in which he and his forces alone were responsible for the security of the strategic communications. In return the Military Commander Greece was released from responsibility for the tactical securing of the strategic communications outside of this designated area."
This shows clearly the two different periods of time. First, carrying out of security tasks by the Military Commander with the police forces under his command; the second period of time, chronologically speaking, the use made of the Higher SS and Police Leader with the same police forces within the scope of band warfare waged with Army Group E.
Q General Winter goes on to say in Paragraph 3 that the Higher SS and Police Leader in Greece was subordinate personally to you. What does "personally subordination" involve?
A In the Service Regulation the term "personally subordinate" is not used. What a "personal subordination" means I'm not quite sure myself. Personal subordination can only exist if and when the man concerned is subordinate in disciplinary matters, but this is included here from the beginning because a Higher SS and Police Leader is not subordinate in disciplinary matters to a Wehrmacht general.
Q Well, do you believe General Winter is in error then in stating that Schimana was "personally subordinate" to you in that affidavit?
A I don't know what he wanted to say by that term.
Q Isn't it true, General Speidel, that Felber in Serbia, as Military Commander Serbia, had the same relationship to the Higher SS and Police Leader in Serbia Meyssner that you had in Greece with Schimana?
A I'm not in a position to judge that because I do not know the details of the channels of command there, nor did I know the Service Relation issued to the Higher SS and Police Loader in Serbia. I was not in a position to make comparisons.
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
Q. Is there any reason for you to believe that when both you and Felber were Military Commanders and when both in Greece and in Serbia, there were higher Police and SS Leaders assigned, that there was a different relationship of subordination in Greece than there was in Serbia?
A. I could not judge that at the time, because I knew nothing of the channels of subordination there. I had to rely on what I had at my disposal and that was the service regulation which, as I would like to emphasize again, was not a service regulation for the Military Commander but it read "Service Regulation to the Higher SS and Police Leader."
Q. Would you look at Document Book 17 at page 56 in the German and page 74 in the English? This is an order by Felber as Military Commander Southeast dated 23 October 1943 to the Senior SS and Police Leader for Serbia who at that time, I believe, was Meyssner and he orders in this order to Meyssner that in retaliation for the death of eight German and Bulgarian Wehrmacht and Police members that the Senior SS and Police Fuehrer is charged with carrying out the execution of certain reprisal measures which are ordered. Do you say that you did not have the same authority to give orders to the Higher SS and Police Leader in Greece, that Felber had in Serbia?
A. From what we have heard about Serbia so far, I have deduced and I also deduce the same from this document, that in Serbia a different opinion concerning collaboration prevailed. I myself never conceived the idea, as is expressed here, to give a directive of that sort to the Higher SS and Police Leader to carry out reprisal measures.
Q. If Himmler, as Reichfuehrer of the SS in Germany, was so jealous of his power and if the various Higher Police and SS Leaders in the occupying countries were so jealous of their prerogatives, how are you able to explain, from your general knowledge I mean, that Felber was able to give specific orders to Meyssner for the carrying out of reprisal measures?
A. It would be necessary to know here what personal and local arrangements had been made there concerning this question, which I am unable to judge.
Q. You mean that under certain conditions, Wehrmacht Commanders do have the authority to give orders for the carrying out of reprisal measures or the retaliation of police losses to the Higher SS and Police Leaders in the occupied countries?
A. All I can say is that I did not handle it that way; and if the Higher SS and Police Leader Serbia would not have agreed to this practice, had he referred for instance to a directive by the Reichsfuehrer SS, it would have been conceivable that he would have said "I am not doing this" but in this particular case apparently both spheres of interest coincided and that is how this regulation came about.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honors please, there are three references that I picked out in the documents which indicate that Felber was authorized to issue orders to the Higher Police and SS Leader for Serbia. I think I need not go into them with General Speidel but perhaps your Honors would wish to note them. They are in Document Book 18 at pages 3, 6 and 50 of the English.
BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q. Would you look now, General Speidel, at Document Book 17 at pages 124 in the English and I believe at page 89 or 90 in the German? This is the standard order of procedure for you as Military Commander Greece which came down from the OKW on the 21st of December, 1943. Here under paragraph 1-B, which is on page 125 of the English, you as Territorial Commander, are being assigned certain tasks; one of them is said to be the maintenance of order.