A Mr. Fenstermacher, it was this order which I discussed in such detail on direct examination. I am not quite clear myself how the divisional commander of the 1st Mountain Division, with whom I had no point of contact, took it on himself to give orders of this sort. I also proved at the same time that the subarea headquarters which you just mentioned in his area was established only after the period of time when this order was issued.
There is only one other explanation possible which is that division had brought this order from its old area which is Serbia, which was the Felber order which was valid before and it was only in October, by the end of October, that I passed it on to the subarea headquarters.
Q Would you turn again to the Loehr order in Document Book 16 at page 99 of the German, rather 100 of the German and page 50 of the English. If the administrative subarea headquarters were not responsible for the execution of the hostages, it was at least their duty to publish their announcements regarding the execution of hostages and such other reprisal measures that were taken, was it not, General?
A It says there in paragraph "E"; "Every reprisal measure must be publicized." As I said on direct examination, publicising a reprisal measure was carried out by the man in charge of the subarea headquarters in Athens. I have known in this connection that these things were merely publicized and that did not mean that the measure was carried out and that is how the subarea headquarters in Athens complied with that order.
Q Did the administrative subarea headquarters in Larissa and Messolunghi and some of the other places you mentioned also publish reprisal measures when they had been carried out by the troops within their area to your knowledge?
A I am afraid I don't know, Mr. Fenstermacher.
Q You only know about the case in which the administrative subarea headquarters in Athens published certain reprisal measures which is contained in this document.
A Because that case was contained in the document; otherwise, I wouldn't have known it.
Q Now, you will note on page 99 of the German, still on the Loehr order, page 48 of the English, General Loehr states that no reprisals are to be carried out unless damage is done. He says that in paragraph 2 on page 99 of the German and page 48 of the English. Is that an indication that at the time -
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Withdrawn.
Q Is that an indication by General Loehr in December 1943 that when you, General Speidel, in January 1943 executed 19 hostages, although no damage had been done, that was rather an error on your part?
Do you follow my question? It is somewhat involved, I admit.
A It was involved but I did follow you, Mr. Fenstermacher. I also have understood the error on which the question is based. You say that no damage had been done in the case of my reprisal measure in January 1943. I should like to call to mind here that a ship had been damaged to the extent that it had to be beached and could no longer be used for supply traffic which I would call doing damage.
Q Would you look now at Document Book XVIII at page 1 in both the English and the German. This is an order of General Felber as military commander Southeast dated the 1st of January 1944. He states in paragraph 4 of that order on page 2 of both the English and the German that "troops and police have to comply with requests to carry out reprisal measures, losses suffered that generally by the troops will be avenged by them, that the police will provide execution detachment to avenge its own losses and, in addition, all attacks on protected non-military persons and objects.
In the first paragraph of that order he states that the Commanders of the Administrative Subarea Headquarters are competent to order reprisals.
I don't suppose you know whether or not the situation in Serbia and the relationship between Felber and his relationship with the administrative subarea headquarters were the same as those which prevailed in Greece between you and your administrative subarea headquarter.
A There was a fundamental difference, inasmuch as in Serbia troops and subarea headquarters were unified in one hand whereas in Greece the troops and the subarea headquarters were two totally separate, agencies. It was, therefore, much easier in Serbia and much simpler to reach an agreement between the two measures.
Q Now, I would like to take up, General Speidel, some of the reports which came to you from your administrative subarea headquarters units.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: Mr. Fenstermacher, I think we will take our recess at this time.
THE MARSHAL: The court will be in recess until fifteen-fifteen.
(A recess was taken.)
(AFTER RECESS)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: You may proceed, Mr. Fenstermacher.
CROSS EXAMINATION GENERAL SPEIDEL BY MR. FENSTERMACHER (continued):
Q. General Speidel, regarding the authority of your administrative sub-area headquarters, and you as Military Commander Greece to order reprisal measures, I would like you to look at this document which was introduced by the Prosecution during the cross-examination of General Felmy. It is exhibit 629. These are excerpts from the War Diary of Army Group E, during March, 1944. Would you look at page 7 of both the German and the English document, under, "Measures of Reprisal"? Do you have it, General?
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: Page 7, Mr. Fenstermacher?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Yes, I believe when we offered it, Your Honor, we asked that it be marked from pages 1 through page 9.
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: That is correct. It is paginated at the top in any event.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Yes at the top; this would be on page 7 at the top and 7 at the bottom.
Q. In this entry, under "Measures of Reprisal" it states that the Shock Division on the Island of Rhodes, requests clarification regarding what offices of the Military Administration the Commander is to contact if he wishes to carry out reprisal measures according to instructions of Army Group E. The entry mentions that the Chief of the Army Administration with its seat in Rhodes, is subordinated to the Chief of the Army Administration at Military Commander Greece, and continues in the Greek part of the area of command there is only one branch office of the local headquarters 817, Athens, which is also subordinated to the Chief of the Military Administration with the Commander in Chief Greece. It seems expedient not to have the ordering of reprisals or of measures of reprisal depend upon an agreement with an office on the mainland, but to provide an office of the military situated in the Command are itself.
Did the Commander on Rhodes have to first consult with you, as Military Commander, Greece, before he could order reprisal measures?
A. I had nothing to do whatsoever with the commander of Rhodes. Rhodes was an island in the Dodekanes, the Italian occupied part of the Peloponnes, and was therefore not under my jurisdiction.
The Greek mainland part of the shock troops Rhodes are mentioned here. I would deduce from this, although I do not know for sure, that some of the Greek Islands belonged to the area and that apparently on one of these islands a representative of the Military Government was stationed in order to take care of administrative measures there. I am not sure of this fact, but I gathered it from the document.
In this case we are concerned with an inquiry about the shock troops Rhodes, possibly on the basis of the previously mentioned Loehr order.
They ask who they should approach in order to comply with the request that in certain cases a sub area administrative headquarters would have to participate in the measure. That is the content of this inquiry which is not available here in the original but just as a note in the War Diary of Army Group E. What decision was made subsequent to this request, I do not know. Probably a decision was arrived at rather late, because the inquiry is dated 20 April 1944. In my opinion, therefore, this inquiry does not tell us anything at all. At least it does not tell us anything about my organization. It is a request to clarify what agency the Commander of Rhodes should approach in order to comply with the Loehr order.
Q. Then there is mention of an agreement with an office on the mainland regarding the ordering of measures of reprisal; does that refer to your office as Military Commander, Greece?
A. Do you mean the very last sentence?
Q. Yes, that is the one I mean.
A. It seems expedient not to make the ordering of reprisal measures dependent upon the agreement of an office in the mainland, but to make the Military Authority in the locality concerned responsible for this ordering.
I take it from this sentence that the Military Commander of Rhodes thinks it is not expedient that he has to refer to an office on the mainland in such cases, which could refer either to the administrative sub area headquarters of Athens or the Military Commander Greece, because the distances were too great and the communication lines too difficult.
He is of the opinion that some agency should be named easier approachable to come to an agreement on the basis of this order. This is what I am reading from the file note of Army Group E.
Q. Did you, as Military Commander Greece, or your administrative sub area headquarters, have authority to take reprisal measures for the death of Greek executives, that is Greeks who worked in or with German offices?
A. I cannot tell you that exactly at the moment. I cannot tell you what provisions were made in this event. It is quite possible.
Q. Would you look, General, at Document Book 18, at page 21 in the German, and page 18 in the English; this is a report of General Felber, as Military Commander Southeast, for the 12th of February, 1944, and under Military Commander Greece, he refers to the execution of 25 communist reprisal prisoners, as revenge for the murder of Greek executives. You were on leave at the time, but you remember having left instructions at your office to retaliate for the murder of Greek executives by executing Communist reprisal prisoners?
A. I am only now understanding your question which you put before. You are referring to Greek police, but I refer to something entirely different. I referred to reprisal measures taken for any greek officials, mayors or people of that standing, and I said that I did not know about reprisal measures in such instances.
Here, however, we are concerned with reprisal measures for police organs, executive police organs of the Greek government, and these would comprise Greek police, Greek gendarmerie and the Greek Evzone units.
To come back to your question, before I left, I did not leave behind any orders or regulations of this kind because that was a question to be decided by the Higher SS and Police Leader under his own responsibility.
Q. You mean the office of the Military Commander had no authority to order reprisal measures for the murder of Greek officials? That was Schimana's jurisdiction?
A. Are you now referring to Greek police organs or any kind of Greek authority? We have to make a distinction between those.
Q. I am referring here now to Greek executives. I take it by that we mean labor officials or mayors. I am limiting m question to refer only to executives such as mayors or labor officials of the Greek government and not police.
A. As to Mayors and other state agencies, I can only repeat what I said before. I do not know any longer whether provisions were made in the Felber order for instance according to which Greek executive organs like mayors, etc. fell under the reprisal measures, retaliation by reprisal measures, but to the best of my knowledge it is provided in the Loehr order.
Q. So you would say then that your Deputy who was serving for you while you were on leave, at the time of this report of 12 February 1944, of General Felber, which refers to the execution of 25 reprisal prisoners as revenge for the murder of Greek executives, - was done in accordance with instructions which your Deputy had when he took over your office?
A Mr. Fenstermacher, I would like to point out a misunderstanding under which we find ourselves at the moment. We are talking at cross purposes. Under executive organs here we have to understand Greek policemen, and this report here refers to a second report on page 53 of this same document, where it states very clearly that as reprisal for murder, our wounding of Greek police, Evzone members and Gendarmerie members, the Higher SS and Police leaders on the 10th of February shot hostages, - 25 hostages in Athens.
This is the same case which we find here in this document, so that the other possibility of mayors and of state officials, does no longer exist.
Q Would you look then at this document, General, NOKW 1838, this is offered as Prosecution's Exhibit 630, Your Honor, would you turn General, to page 6 of both the German and English, of the mimeographed copy, - if you have the original, it is on page 12 of the original document, - those are excerpts from your War Diary as Military Commander Greece, and I am particularly concerned now with the entry in the War Diary for the 30th of January, 1944. It states here that as reprisal measure for the murder of Minister Kulywas by Communists, 50 Communist hostages were shot on 29 January by order of the Military Commander in Greece".
Was Minister Kulywas who is referred to here, a member of the Greek government?
A I did not know him, but I assume if it says here, Minister Kulywas was murdered, I assume that he was a member of the Cabinet. At the same time, however, I would like to point out that at that time I was not in Greece.
Q What I am wondering is whether or not this reprisal measure was ordered in accordance with instructions or orders which were in existence at your office at the time your Deputy took over for you?
A Mr. Fenstermacher, I cannot tell you today what orders were of importance, and decisive for my deputy; in order to say that I would have to have all of the orders, and I have not got them.
Q Were there, General, orders for the execution of reprisal measures for members of the Greek government in existence in your office as Military Commander Greece?
A I cannot remember that for that special case I issued an order, because I did not even have to give a written order, because the only person I could address it to would be myself, because if I had decided to take such measures, I would have been the person to carry them out.
Q Do you think your deputy took this reprisal measure on his own initiative?
A I cannot say that, Mr. Fenstermacher.
I cannot judge the motives and decisions of other persons, after four years.
Q Did your chief of staff tell you about this incident when you returned from being ill in Germany?
A I cannot remember that either.
Q Now would you turn to page 24 of the original which you have, page 11 in both the English and the German, to the entry in your War Diary for the 3rd of April, 1944, it states there:
"As reprisal measures for the attack on the head of the Greek Labor Office in Trikkata, 4 Communists were shot."
Do you know about that incident?
A No, I know nothing about it. Of course, I read about it in the documents but it is in no way apparent who ordered the measure, who ordered this reprisal measure. This seems to be one of the many reports of the administrative area headquarters which were passed on as 1 C reports.
One cannot draw any conclusions from such a report.
Q Where is Trikkala?
A Trikalla is located in Thrace, and should be to the north that is between Larissa and Salonika.
Q Now, general, is it not quite apparent that there was no tactical operation concerned here, so that any troop execution squad is not involved?
Isn't it also apparent that since the man who was murdered was not a police official that an execution of reprisal measures by Schimana was not involved?
A I can not believe that it was Schimana who ordered it. I would not know what he had to do in Trikkla, but Trikkala is mentioned in the band combat reports of the Commander Salonika Aegean again and again at that particular period of time as a constant source of unrest and in connection with band operations they repeatedly talk of reprisal measures so it seems to me by no means impossible that such a measure was taken in this particular connection. At least from this brief notice from the certificate in a 1-C report we cannot gather who ordered the measure.
Q When you got information to the effect that reprisal measures were being carried out in the area of your 7th administrative sub areas headquarters did you usually check to determine whether they were carried out by the troops or whether they were carried out by your headquarters?
A I was in no position to check all of these individual reports. First of all it would depend on which of these reports I saw at all, of which I was aware. On direct examination I stated that currently the situation was reported to me, that I was told of the places of surprise attacks, of unrest here and there, and from such reports I would gain a survey of the situation. Reports which did not concern the Military Commander in his own area were passed on automatically. Therefore I cannot tell you today whether this particular report was submitted to me or not, and whether at the time I deemed it necessary to make investigations on that. That, I believe is, to be quite honest, asking too much, that I should know this today.
Q Do you believe, general, that in the case of all of these reprisal measures which were taken in or about the areas of your 7 administrative sub area headquarters, that in each of those cases your administrative sub-area headquarters had to give its consent to the troops or to Schimana before those reprisal measures could be executed?
A In order to put that right immediately, the administrative sub area headquarters did not have to ask for a consent from Schimana on anything. That was quite out of the question, but there is something else which I remember very clearly. That is that I myself felt very calm because I was under the impression that reprisal measures which were ordered in my area of jurisdiction, I would be consulted about, before they were carried out, but I do not remember any such inquiry.
Q Would you turn now to page 19 of this original document which you have, page 9 of both the English and the German. This is an entry in your War Diary for the 10 March 1944, which refers to the execution of 100 active communists from the Salonika and Larrissa hostage camps in reprisal for an attack on an express train in the area of Larissa? Did you know about those two hostage camps at Salonika and Larissa?
A No, I don't remember knowing them. But in connection with this particular incident I would like to say that for, one, it took place during my absence, and two, it is a reprisal measure for a surprise attack on a railroad. The Military Commander for Greece, however, was not concerned with the safeguarding of the railroad lines. This was the concern of the repeatedly mentioned railroad security at Larissa which in turn was subordinate to Commander SalonikaAegean and Army Group E. This then is merely a 1-C report which was passed on.
Furthermore, I compiled all of these reports which you are mentioning here in my Document Book 3, where I made statements about them.
Q If these hostage camps were not under the jurisdiction of your administrative sub area headquarters in Salonika and Larissa, under whose jurisdiction might they have been?
A It may well be that they were subordinate to the area administrative headquarters. I don't know that. It is just possible that they were subject to somebody else. To the best of my knowledge I don't know anything about any hostage camps, but I have to admit that it says so.
Q Now you said on direct examination that you could not recall the reprisal action in retaliation for the murder of Frau Maders. Do you recall that?
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
A. You mean the Mayers incident?
Q. Yes, that is correct.
A. That is an incident which was clarified yesterday I believe. In the document there is one report, according to which the Sub-area Administrative Headquarters Lamia reports that for the murder of Frau Mayer reprisal measures were carried out. At first I assumed on the basis of that report that it was a measure of the Sub-area Administrative Headquarters taken on my direction, but by pure chance I received an affidavit which was presented here yesterday, and, according to which reprisal measures at the time were refused by me. That affidavit only confirmed my personal conviction that at that time I did not order any reprisal measure. But these reprisal measures were carried out, as can be seen from the Ic report; therefore, we can only assume the following: the place where the crime took place is located in the middle of Boeotia. On that particular farm there were, during the whole time, troops of the Higher SS and Police Leader stationed. I can only assume, therefore, that this reprisal measure was carried out in agreement with the Higher SS and Police Leader and that seemed to me to clarify this case.
Q. When you say by agreement with the Higher SS and Police Leader do you mean that the Sub-area Administrative Headquarters consulted the Higher SS and Police Leader, or what do you mean?
A. No, I don't mean in agreement with Sub-area Administrative Headquarters and the Higher SS and Police Leader. I mean in agreement with the local troops and the Higher SS and Police Leader.
Q. The husband of this Frau Mayer -- was he subordinate to you in any way?
A. No, he was not subordinate to me. He was the German administrator of this farm, and this farm, in turn, was under the administration of the Military Administration.
What his relations were to the Military Administration and what his employment was -- whether he was under free contract or not -I don't know, but I do know that he was not a member of the Military Administration. He was a German civilian.
Q. As I recall, the affidavit in that regard, which has not yet been furnished but which Dr. Weissgerber read into the record, the affiant mentions that you were very indignant at this murder of Frau Mayer and that you forbade reprisal measures to be taken. Is that what the affidavit says to your recollection?
A. It doesn't say it quite so strongly, but it does say something similar. I, after all, did not write this affidavit.
Q. If the ordering of reprisal measures in that case was taken in agreement with the Higher SS and Police Leader, then the reference to the fact that you forbade reprisal measures would not be quite accurate would it?
A. I beg your pardon. I didn't say that this was an agreement between the Higher SS and Police Leader and me in this case. I didn't say that at all. I didn't even discuss it with him. That must be an error. An agreement existed in connection with the local troop units and the Higher SS and Police Leader.
Q. If the affiant is correct in this case, then you yourself personally prohibited reprisal measures from being taken. Am I not correct in that?
A. In this particular case apparently, according to the statements of the affiant, I rejected reprisal measures.
Q. Now, would you turn to Page 3 of this Document Book which you have, Page 2 of the English and the German mimeographed copies? The entry for the 7th of December 1943 in your War Diary states: "While going from Wehrmacht station Kopais to Thebes on 7 December the car of the German Director Dr. Mayer was fired on with submachine guns by unknown perpetrators.
The wife of Dr. Mayer was mortally wounded thereby. Reprisal measures are being initiated." And then in the entry in your War Diary three days later on the 10th of December 1943 it states: "As reprisal measure for the murder of Frau Mayer (Wehrmacht station Kopais) the shooting of 10 hostages was carried out."
Does that refresh your recollection in any regard on this incident?
A. No, I'm afraid it does not.
Q. Now, you will note, General Speidel, if you will turn through your War Diary that there are many references to the fact that the Senior SS and Police Leader in Greece executed hostages, or ordered the execution of hostages. You will note that on Page 1 of the English and German, at the bottom, the entry for 30th November 1943, Page 2 of the original document; again on Page 3 of the German and English, Page 6 of the original document, the entry for the 18th of December 1943; again on Page 4 of both the English and the German, Page 7 of the original document, the entry for the 8th of January 1944; and so on.
Isn't it clear that whenever the Higher SS and Police Leader executed hostages or ordered their execution you made a specific reference to that fact in your War Diary, and when those measures were taken on your own initiative or on the initiative of the Sub-area Administrative Headquarters you made no such specific reference?
A. I don't know from what aspect the author of this War Diary has compiled these reports. One has to visualize the situation as follows: The recipient of the reports entered them in the War Diary in the same way in which he received them; that the reports of the Higher SS and Police Leader, which had to be gathered, could be received easiest and quickest is quite obvious because he was stationed in the same town.
Other reports concerning actions of the troops were entered and passed on in this same way, without any further additions. Therefore, the entries in the War Diary can not tell us anything about spheres of responsibility. It is just a registering activity, where the reports were copied verbatim, the way they were received.
Q. Now, a few questions regarding the orders which you issued to your Sub-area Administrative Headquarters. Did you ever issue an order for the execution of hostages at a ratio of 10 to 1?
A. Not that I remember.
Q. But you do know about having issued an order which you had earlier received from Felber regarding the ratio -for the execution of hostages at a ratio of 50 to 1, I believe you said?
A. Yes, indeed; that is correct, but with the reservation which I made at the time.
Q. Were you Sub-area Administrative Headquarters in a position to carry out an order to execute hostages at a ratio of 50 to 1?
I believe you testified that those Sub-area Administrative Headquarters only had sixteen men. How was it physically possible for them to executive such an order?
A. If such an order had to be carried out then the Sub-area Administrative Headquarters would have had to approach the nearest unit and would have had to ask them for assistance, which I believe is expressed in this way in the so-called Loehr Order.
Q. Then, it was possible for your Sub-area Administrative Headquarters to execute this 50 to 1 order which you had issued to them?
A. Under the condition that they had my consent.
Q. I believe you said that you did not examine that 50 to 1 order which you received from Felber, from a legal standpoint. You were particularly concerned with the order's being inadvisable from a psychological standpoint. Am I correct?
A. I believe that is the way I put it, and I did not check this order from the legal standpoint because it was an order from the OKW, and, as such, I assumed a priori that it had been examined from this point of view. I knew that the OKW had a legal department. Also, I was satisfied about the legal aspect of the order because my legal advisor had informed me that reprisal measures as such are admissible under International Law. There were only then those reasons which you mentioned also, but not the legal reasons.
Q. Did your legal advisor tell you that there were no restrictions or limitations upon the taking of reprisal measures?
A. What his statements were in detail I couldn't say today -- after four years. I only remember the decisive fact that he confirmed that there have to be no misgivings concerning International Law in regard to these reprisal measures.
Q. You stated that you yourself had no recollection of the execution of 200 hostages in Athens as part of the total of 325 or 335 hostages executed in reprisal for the attack upon General Krech and his company.
A. Yes, that is correct. Try as I may, I cannot remember it.
Q. If those hostages were executed in Athens couldn't that only have been by units under your command?
A. No, I had no troops.
Q. You had several security battalions I believe.
A. I had one security battalion -- Battalion 596.
Q. General Schimana's 18th SS and Police Regiment was, at that time, in Boeotia on tactical operations was it not?
A. The 18th Police Regiment was ordinarily stationed in Boeotia in order to combat the band activity there.
Q. And the LXVIIIth Corps simply had a staff headquarters in Athens. Its troops were on the Peloponnes so that they could not have executed the 200 hostages?
A. Even if I had wanted to do it I couldn't have done it because I didn't have the forces to carry out this measure, with the exception of the 596th Security Battalion.
Q Might you not give an order to the police to carry out that execution?
A In the situation of that time, where the police units were no longer subordinated to me, I couldn't have given an order. I could have asked, I could have made a request.
Q Then the attack in that case on General Krech occurred in the Peloponnes, 200 hostages were shot in Athens. I don't suppose you have any understanding as to why that occurred?
A I can give no explanation for that. It is a mystery to me and since I do not recollect the incident, I went into it thoroughly on the basis of the documents here and I know now the historical development of this incident.
Q Now regarding the evacuation of the Jews from Athens, which you said was done by the SS, you state that you ordered the confiscation of their fortunes and property and placing them at the disposal of the Greek government in a kind of trustee relationship, is that correct?
A Yes, quite. I didn't say that I had any part in it. I said that the Greek government took it over as a trustee in the interests of those concerned.
Q They did that at your order, did they not?
A Yes. As I stated, I gave this order after a thorough discussion with Minister Neubacher who was the person who suggested this solution. I would like to stress again that I saw this measure as one in the interests of the Jews and not one directed against them. Else, I could have remained passive and just watched the spoliation of Jewish property.
Q Didn't you know that the Jews whose fortunes had been confiscated at your order would never return to Athens?
A That again I have commented on, Mr. Fenstermacher. What you might have possibly known at that time and what we only learned during our captivity in 1945 -- that is facts concerning concentration camps, Auschwitz etc.
-- we had no idea of at that time. How could we have known? You will have to visualize that I had stayed in Rumania and for 20 months had not been in Germany. Also, from grief I had not come to Germany for a period of 20 months. How then could I know such things? They were certainly not transmitted to me in writing.
Q Didn't you know that a few months earlier all the Jews from Saloniki had been evacuated to the East?
A I mentioned on direct examination that it was only after the Athens incident that I learned that the Jews had been deported from Saloniki. It is entirely new to me that they were brought to the East.
Q How was it that the SS permitted you to interfere in their operation to the extent of confiscating the money of the Jews and putting it at the disposal of the Greek government when, as you state, you were unable to interfere in the basic operation concerning their evacuation?
A In that particular case, I did not interfere with any authorities of the SS unless you want to call the plundering an authority of the SS. The situation was such that property had no master and was exposed to looting and plundering, and I took measures against that.
Q Now on the subject of deportation of Greek civilians to Germany for labor, as I understand your direct testimony, you say that it was no concern of yours but that the Greek civilians went to Germany voluntarily rather than by compulsion?
A In any case, that group of people which I mentioned.
Q Now would you look at this document, General Speidel, NOKW-2520?