A. That was less important because I explained why I did not report the Kalavrita incident and General LeSuire's connection with it to Higher Headquarters. I did not think it would be successful. I thought it would be more successful to tackle him personally by applying brakes to his energies, that he would first report largo scale reprisal measures to Corps and that, as he had been in charge of his division for only a year at that time, as I see it -- he started commanding the corps in June, when he joined me in the Peleponnesus, I believe, and that that opinion was the correct one was shown in the following period of time because the Kalavrita incident did not repeat itself.
There was nothing that you did to cause the transfer of LeSuire out of your corps area, was there?
A No.
Q On the 16th of July 1944 you stated that General LeSuire was suitable to command a mountain corps. Just three weeks after that, on the 5th of August 1944, he was assigned a corps.
A On the 10th of July, unless I am very much mistaken, he had been transferred to the officers' reserve. That meant he was about to be used elsewhere as from a purely military point of view no objections could be raised against his person. That means -- or at least you could interpret it to that effect -- that now that he had been in charge of the division for a certain period of time he could presumably be entrusted with the command of a corps.
Q In spite of the Kalavrita operation and other reprisal measures that LeSuire took as commander of the 117th Infantry Division, you felt he could be entrusted to command a larger number of troops than he did when he was under your command?
A I said before that I regarded Kalavrita as the excess although 78 German soldiers had been murdered before and I have given you my reason several times, that the other reprisal measures had been caused by the attitude taken by the population. We did not take them voluntarily or arbitrarily. We would have much preferred the population to have remained calm; then we need not have taken any reprisal measures. After all, you mustn't put conditions upside down here. The population had been incited by the British and committed acts of sabotage and we had to take reprisal measures thereupon. The reasons I have given you before.
Q On the 16th of July 1944 you felt that LeSuire could be entrusted with a corps, although previously he had been entrusted only with a division. Is that correct?
A Yes, that was the natural, the next step on the ladder.
Q This National Socialist regulation you talk about, General Felmy; when did that regulation become a part of army regulations, if you know?
A I said before that the Luftwaffe observed it in peacetime. I can say that with certainty because I was with the Luftwaffe at the time; but when it was introduced into army regulations I do not know.
Q You couldn't say whether it was 1943 or 1945?
A 1945? Certainly not, because then I would not have included it. Probably it came out in 1943 or 1944 -- a regulation to that effect, I mean.
Q You note that on the 30th of July 1944 Field Marshal Weichs does not include that statement. Do you suppose the regulation came out after the 30th of August 1944?
AAfter all, I included it on the 1st of March. Therefore, it cannot have been issued after the 30th of July. I having included it in the opinion, it was left to Field Marshal von Weichs whether or not he wanted to stress it once again or whether he wanted to say "not an N.S. officer." I had no influence on what Field Marshal von Weichs wanted to say in the opinion.
At any rate, that regulation must have been in existence on 1 March 1944 for the Army because otherwise I would not have had any reason to make this addition in the opinion but I don't know what the date was.
Q You believe that General Loehr and Field Marshal Weichs must have violated that regulation and not have it included in their statements regarding LeSuire?
A I did not say so, that they violated the regulation but, as it says in the basic opinion. I was the first to give an opinion as the commanding general for a divisional commander, the others could either say he is not a National Socialist officer or they need not do so. I don't know why they didn't. After all, it was said once and unless they deviated in their opinion they need not confirm it. They need not stress it particularly. Therefore, it should be assumed that they shared my opinion.
Q You couldn't join the Party while you were still an officer, could you, General, speaking now about the time prior to your dismissal in January 1940?
AActive officers were not allowed to become members of the Party. In 1945 a loosening up of this regulation is supposed to have happened but I am not aware of it personally.
Q When you were dismissed from the Wehrmacht and had an opportunity to join the party, you did so.
A I did not do so for reasons of opportunism. I explained my reasons. It was possible for a man who was not an active soldier to join the Party. That is quite correct.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I have no further questions, your Honors.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: Any further Questions for the defense?
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW (Counsel for defendant Felmy): May it please the Tribunal, I do not want to talk any more about the Rosenberg detachment because I assume that the Tribunal are now aware of the significance of this club which consisted of five archive experts who had been put into a uniform and I believe it is also quite clear what connection General Felmy had as a disciplinary authority towards that so-called detachment. I have no further questions to ask from General Felmy.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARRIER: Any Questions by the defense counsel? By the Tribunal?
JUDGE BURKE: I have no questions.
THE PRESIDENT: I have none.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: The witness will be excused.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: If the Tribunal please, I would now like to ask for two witnesses to be called who have given an affidavit which I was unable to submit because the affiants live in Nurnberg. With the Court's consent, I should like to call Dr. Guenther Altenburg.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: The marshal will call the witness.
(Guenther Altenburg, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:)
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: The witness will raise his right hand and be sworn.
I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q Will you please look at me, Dr. Altenburg? Please give me your full name?
A Guenther Altenburg. Do you want all my Christian names?
Q No, I think one is quite enough. When were you born?
A 5 June 1894 in Koenigsberg, Prussia.
Q Will you please speak a little more slowly and speak into the microphone? Where are you living now?
A I am in custody here in Nurnberg.
Q Why are you in custody?
A I am here as a witness for two trials: for the trial of the Southeast Generals and for the Foreign Ministry.
Q. Dr. Altenburg, you will recall that on 21 June of this year you gave me an affidavit for General Felmy who is one of the defendant in this trial.
A Yes, I did so.
Q I would like briefly to interrogate you on that affidavit. How do you know General Felmy?
A I know General Felmy from Greece when I was down there as a Minister and Plenipotentiary in Athens. I arrived there by the end of April 1941. General Felmy arrived shortly after me and became Commander in Chief South Greece. He remained for about one year and three months.
Q How long did you remain in Greece as a Minister?
A I remained until 3 November 1943 in Greece although the last six months before my transfer I was frequently absent from Athens.
Q Dr. Altenburg, you represented, as minister Plenipotentiary, the civilian sector at that time, did you not?
A I represented the political interests of the German Reich.
Q I see, and in that capacity you had frequent contact with the civilian population on the one hand and with German military agencies on the other. Is that correct?
A Yes, it is.
Q Now, I have this question to ask you: how did General Felmy act towards the Greek population?
A Both as far as the government was concerned and as far as private individuals were concerned, I never heard anything unfavorable about General Felmy as long as I was down there.
Q Excuse me one moment. Let me ask you another question first. Did you hear at any time during that period of time down in Greece that General Felmy had ordered any reprisal measures?
A When I was down there -- not.
Q Now, will you please tell us about his attitude, the attitude he took towards the Greek population?
A He demonstrated that he was interested in the needs and concerns of the population. For instance, the press attache of the legation would have to report to him from newspapers about what the population was interested in, how it concerned them, what the real needs of the population were. He was deeply interested in gifts of food, gifts of medical supplies. He took part in their distribution. These things were distributed by the commander-in-chief to the population. When complaints were made concerning requisition departments he showed a generous frame of mind. He was in a position to grant a number of alleviations which, of course, were received with gratitude.
Q. Do you mean to say that he complied with the wishes of the Greek population as much as he could?
A. That I can confirm.
Q. Dr. Altenburg, what opinion did you hear about General Felmy on the part of Greek individuals? Did you hear anything about that? In your official position as a Minister you frequently contacted Greek circles, did you not?
A. There were cases, especially for instance in the case of confiscated apartments, where the Greeks first turned to me, and I then passed on these requests, but then later on, once they had known General Felmy more intimately, they would go to him directly, and then would tell me afterward that they had been received in a kindly manner with their requests.
Q. Do you remember the German Heroes Memorial Day there?
A. Yes, that is a matter which I described as typical of Felmy in my affidavit. The Germans always observed the Heroes Memorial Day there every spring, and General Felmy initiated the custom at that time that a wreath be placed on the grave of the Unknown Greek Soldier in the presence of a guard of honor. That became an established tradition. I am also reminded of another matter.
Q. Yes. I suppose you are thinking of the Sunday of Sacrifices?
A. Yes.
Q. I meant to ask you about that.
A. Yes, the Sunday of Sacrifices in October, 1941, when collections were made for the benefit of the Greek Red Cross under the patronage of the Metropolitan area and General Felmy supplied the orchestra, collected money among the troops, and he himself gave a little speech in the biggest cinema of the town, addressed to the guests who had been invited.
Q. Who was Chairman of that concert?
A. The patronage was in the hands of Metropolitan of Athens, Archbishop Damaskinos.
Q. Do you know what archbishop Damaskinos' opinion was of General Felmy?
A. Well, I never heard one unfriendly word uttered by him concerning General Felmy.
Q. Dr. Altenburg, I have only one final question to you. General Felmy in this trial has been indicted for having terrorized and annihilated the Greek population. Do you know anything about that from your own observations or from hearsay?
A. When I was stationed down there, I never heard anything of that sort raised against General Felmy. I do not think the General would have been in a position to do anything of that sort.
Q. Why could he not have done that?
A. As the Commanding General of 3 villages in the neighborhood of Athens and a bit of Pyraeus, Cape Sunion, it scarcely is possible to exterminate the Greek population.
Q. Do you think it would be in his character to do that?
A. No, it would be ridiculous to think that, in my opinion.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: I have no further questions.
PRESIDING JUSTICE CARTER: Are there any questions by Defense Counsel?
DIRECT EXAMINATION WITNESS ALTENBURG BY DR. LATERNSER:If the Tribunal please, I have a few questions to ask this witness on behalf of Field Marshal List.
Q. Dr. Altenburg, how long have you been in custody?
A. I was released in November of last year, and on the 2nd of April of this year I was rearrested.
Q. Do you know why?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If the Court please I object to this. The witness is being brought here primarily to testify to General Felmy's character, and Dr. Laternser has asked permission to interrogate him regarding Field Marshal List. I do not see that this last question has anything to do with either of those.
JUSTICE CARTER: The objection is overruled.
BY DR. LATERNSER:
Q. Dr. Altenburg, you may answer my question.
A. Why I had been rearrested, you mean. I gave an answer to Dr. Mueller-Torgow, namely, that I had been arrested as a witness for those two trials.
Since 2 April I have been rearrested, yes.
Q. And since then you have been in custody without interruption?
A. Yes.
Q. Dr. Altenburg, please answer my questions only after having made a brief pause so that the interpreter can interpret.
How long were you in Greece?
A. From between the end of April, 1941, until November, 1943.
Q. Who, at the beginning of your work, was Commanderin-Chief of the 12th Army in Greece?
A. That was Field Marshal List.
Q. What welfare measures were taken by Field Marshal List while he was serving in Greece for the benefit of the Greek population?
A. As I said, in the case of General Felmy, he took a permanent part in releasing food supplies, medical supplies, and above all for the capital of Athens.
Q. Where were the Medical supplies and food supplies taken from?
A. They came from Army Depots.
Q. Dr. Altenburg, please wait a moment until you answer my question.
Were children fed at that time?
A. Well, that was the most important thing. The wife of Vice Prime Minister Logalopopoulos, who was particularly interested in feeding the children of the city of Athens, and it was for these feeding arrangements, that the Field Marshal released food supplies on several occasions.
Q. In what zone was Athens situated at that time?
A. I think this should be stressed especially. Athens was in the Italian Zone of Occupation, but nevertheless the Field Marshal released supplies from German stores.
Q. What do you know about wheat supplies from Germany?
A. About what supplies from Germany, I can say this. We made every effort together with the Greek population, to supply Athens and the more important cities in Salonika with wheat. That wheat had been promised us, but all of a sudden an order of Ribbentrop's arrived that it was to be discontinued in October. I went to see the Field Marshal at that time.
Q. Would you please give the name also for the record?
A. I went and saw Field Marshal List, and informed him of the telegram which had come in from Berlin. He asked me at once how else he could help me. I told him that it was my intention to fly to Berlin in order to have this decision reversed, if possible, and Field Marshal List immediately offered to give me a letter for this purpose, by virtue of which it would be possible, despite Ribbentrop's order, to get the Food Ministry -- that is to say, Backe -- and the Four Year Plan, which was Koerner -- to release wheat for these supplies.
I must say had I not had List's support for this, I really would not have known where to turn at that moment.
Q. Did the wheat reach Greece?
A. Yes, it did.
Q. And for whose benefit was it used?
A. The benefit of the Greek population, mainly. Mainly the capital of Athens in the Italian Zone of Occupation.
Q. What was the attitude, quite generally, of Field Marshal List toward the Greek population?
A. Well, as should be seen from what I have said so far, he was full of sympathy, kindly. Apart from the food supplies, once when an air field near Athens was to be established -- unless I am must mistaken it was called Ekale.
Q. What was that airfield?
A. That airfield was to be extended and for that purpose a quarter of the town or city was to be eliminated. Prime Minister Zolacoglou went and called on Field Marshal List, and the decision was reversed.
Q. Did you have frequent contact with Greek agencies, and important Greek personalties at that time?
A. All of the time I was permanently in contact with them, that was my field of work.
Q. What opinions were expressed by those men concerning Field Marshal List and his work?
A. It was my impression that Field Marshal List was highly respected, and I think that the examples which I have given should suffice to explain this.
JUSTICE CARTER: The Tribunal will take its afternoon recess at this time.
(Tribunal in recess until fifteen hours.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: You may proceed, Dr. Laternser.
Q. (By Dr. Laternser) I have a very few questions yet to be put to the witness. Dr. Altenburg, we just discussed tho attitude shown by Field Marshal List towards the Greek population. Do you know the case of the three Naval officers who escaped and later on were put before a court martial?
A. At the time, in summer 1941, three Greek naval officers who had been dismissed from prisoner-of-war camps, had tried, against the prohibition existing for Greek prisoners of military rank, to leave the country in a motorboat in order to go to Cairo and there to put themselves at the disposal of the Greek exiled government.
They were found by a motor cruiser and sentenced to death by a German court martial because they had violated the law not to leave the country. I intervened at the time on the request of the families of the Greek soldiers involved and made representations to Field Marshal List who was supposed to confirm tho verdict. List cancelled the verdict.
Q. What happened to the three naval officers?
A. They had to give an assurance to show a loyal attitude to the occupation forces and then they were put at liberty.
Q. That was an action which took place in connection with three Greek naval officers?
A. Yes, they were three Greek naval officers.
Q. What was the attitude shown by Field Marshal List in cases where his own soldiers -- let's say for instance - plundered?
A. I believe it was in June or the beginning of July, 1941, when he told me that he had to pronounce a number of death sentences against German soldiers who had plundered. He said in addition. "Do you believe that's easy for me to do a thing like that? But it was necessary to maintain law and order." That was approximately the contents of his remark to me.
Q. What was the part played by General List with regard to the Jewish question, when you were together with him in Athens?
A. None at all, not for Greece anyway.
Q. Were there any restrictions issued for the Jewish population there?
A. Not to the best of my knowledge.
Q. Then there is one case I'd like to discuss. Do you know that in Crete there was an operation to conquer this island and that on that occasion there were mutilations on German parachutists?
A. According to reports by the troops of which I heard, such things occurred.
Q. What was done as a counter action?
A. Those were people who had been caught by trees when parachuting down.
Q. What was ordered by Goering as a consequence?
A. Goering at the time issued an order to retaliate in the most ruthless manner and we all were shocked by this order.
Q. And what did Field marshal List do as a consequence?
A. Field Marshal List, in connection with General Student, took up an attitude which opposed these orders and then very detailed investigations were started concerning the extent of those atrocities, by order of Field Marshal List. If I remember correctly a very detailed report was submitted by him to higher agencies and this had the result that Goering's order was nipped in the bud.
Q. And what was the consequence of this action taken by Field Marshal List?
A. One can only say that he saved the lives of many thousands of Crete inhabitants because if Goering's order had been put into practice, that would have meant a catastrophe for Crete.
DR. LATERNSER: I thank you. I have no further questions.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. MENZEL (Counsel for defendant Kuntze):
Q. Dr. Altenburg, you will recall that on the 8th of July, 1947 you executed an affidavit for the defendant General Kuntze?
A. Yes, I do remember that.
Q. Through the fact that you personally are present here, this is superseded and I will now put a few questions to you concerning the general situation in the Balkans as well as General Kuntze's attitude. First of all, lot us discuss the general situation. Do you know that in the Balkans at that time the railroad lines were particularly threatened by the Partisans through sabotage acts, et cetera?
A. If I may deal in detail with this for a moment, the facts were that when the troops withdrew, streets, bridges, viaducts, et cetera had been blown up and all usable ships and shipping space in the country before the German troops had invaded the country had been taken back so that it was one of the first tasks to repair the roads and bridges and to build up the viaducts, to repair locomotives and wagons and to put the railroad line which connected Athens with the north back into order, because that was the main supply route and communication line for the civilians as well as for the occupation forces.
There was one large viaduct which was blown up twice during my stay there by the Partisans after it had been repaired, and it was the constant endeavor of the Germans to repair and to rebuild them as soon as possible so that the railroad line could be used again.
Q. You said before, when the troops withdrew. What were the troops you meant?
A. I meant the British and the Greek Troops.
Q. The British and the Greek, I see. And what was the main railroad line in the Balkans?
A. That was the line which I mentioned just now, the line AthensSalonika and from Salonika north to Belgrade.
Q. Was this railway line of a special importance for the civilian population also?
A. Yes, it was, particularly so because the se* route was rendered very uncertain through submarines and a number of our transports were bombed, as for instance, the wheat supplies for Athens on the line Salonika-Athens. The Adriatic Sea also was very insecure and the approaching route through the Adria to Corinth was also endangered. Actually secure, if one leaves out for the moment the possibility of attack by partisans, was only the land route, and this railroad line was the one which was of main importance for the supply of the civilian population as well as for the supply of the occupation troops.
Q. Concerning the line Salonika-Sofia was this one also of decisive importance?
A. No, to the best of my knowledge it was a one-track-line which led via Cerniki. According to what I heard the supplies were sent down from Belgrade to Salonika and were distributes from there.
Q. The supply situation of the civilian population in Greece, for instance was it only endangered in wartime or had it been, to the best of your knowledge, an unfavorable one even before that?
A. I don't understand the question.
Q. Was the situation this, that Greece could supply itself before the war and was only in food difficulties during the war?
A. No, the countryside could always be self-supporting, but Athens and Salonika, the large cities of the country, above all Athens which during the war had about eight hundred thousand inhabitants before the war and during the war 1,300,000 inhabitants, needed, of course, food supplements from outside, considerable food supplements.
Q. Just before you mentioned that after the German troops had invaded the country the supply lines and communication lines were put in order again.
A. That was not only worked at by the Germans but also very considerably so by the Italians as it is well known the Italians are very good at road building.
Q. In this initial period, 1941 and 1942, was at that time the aid from Switzerland and Turkey and Sweden in action?
A. Yes, it was from Turkey. The Red Half Moon sent two ships which brought in beans and other foodstuffs from Turkey, but that was an action which was not of a considerable importance. It was merely to express a friendly relation which existed between Turkey and Greece. The Swedish and Swiss relief work, if I remember the date correctly, started about the fall or winter of 1942-1943. There was a gentleman there first who was sent by Senator Sandstroem, and Senator Sandstroem came to the Balkans in spring 1943, and then the whole action started rolling properly.
Q. Mainly then it was an action in 1943?
A. That is so.
Q. You mentioned just before, that the German armed forces helped the civilian population with food and medical supplies?
A. Yes, and I can confirm that.
Q. Was that help, during the years 1941 and 1942, particularly important because the relief action from Sweden and Switzerland had only started properly in 1943?
A. I would like to put it that way. The situation was that, that every sack of wheat and every sack of beans was of particular importance. It was not only that the foodstuffs were put at the disposal but also the means of transportation, gasoline, et cetera, had to be put at their disposal. Sea planes, for instance, which had to bring supplies to the islands, all these instruments had to be put at the disposal from the Wehrmacht which acted very helpfully in this respect.
Q. What was the case, for instance, if foodstuffs were put at the disposal but the railroad lines were blown up, and therefore the foodstuffs could not be distributes to Athens or wherever else they were needed?
A. There were repeatedly emergency columns put up at the right time when just a sudden shortage occurred at some place, in order to bring in the supplies. In those cases the Wehrmacht put up the necessary vehicles and gasoline.
Q. And what was the situation in the German Armed Forces? Were gasoline and trucks available to such an extent that this additional use played no particular part or was it rather the situation that things were short and had to be saved?
A. To the best of my knowledge gasoline was very short.
Q. It was, was it?
A. Yes, gasoline was very scarce. In any case we had directives to save as much as we possibly could everywhere. On the other band it was of vital importance to get the food distributed and that is why the Armed Forces jumped into the breach.
Q. Now, if you had some information that there were great disruptions on railroad lines, what was the attitude shown then by the Greek population, by the Greek government. Was the Greek government pleased or worried?
A. As could be shown by the situation which prevailed, the government could only be worried. I know that when the one large viaduct which I mentioned before -- unfortunately I don't recall the name -- when a few months after it had first been rebuilt, it was exploded again, everybody was deeply shocked and disturbed because everybody realized that new delays would be the consequence. The Italians were very quick at repairing the viaduct.
Q. Do you know anything of the fact that the German Armed Forces fought malaria in the interests of the civilian population?
A. To the best of my recollection there were two instances when a certain Professor Rodenwald came down to the Balkans and he fought malaria with the civilians as well as with the Armed Forces.
He had to give an expert opinion and to check up on measures which had been and were to be taken to fight the disease. This action was not only restricted to distributing of medical supplies, but also the sources of the illness were destroyed and gasoline was put at the disposal of the troops to destroy the breeding places of these insects and that was how the action was started and carried out.
Q. You mentioned just before that the Greek government frequently brought requests to you and that you went to the German Armed Forces for help and assistance in such cases. Can you tell us something about the frequency? Did it happen once a month or did it happen almost daily?
A. It's very difficult to express this in numbers. It was frequent if you want to put it that way. It took place currently, constantly.
Q. I see.
A. It's the same as, for instance, here or in Munich if houses are being requisitioned for the occupation forces and then there are a thousand questions for which the inhabitants want to stay in the houses, or let us say, there are a thousand questions considering the electric current, the electric supply, the transportation, water supply, all those questions are discussed frequently. The consideration of the interest of the civilian population compared with those of the occupation forces, all those are questions which crop up all the time.
Q. Now, if you consulted the Armed Forces on such frequent occasions, did it occur frequently that your request for assistance was refused?
A. No, I can't say that. I have repeatedly mentioned that I am very grateful for the understanding which I found when I approached the military agencies with requests for the Greek population and in those instances I found understanding and help.
Q Now a few questions, particularly about General Kuntze. Did you at the time know General Kuntze personally?
A Yes. He was Fieldmarshal List's successor in October, 1941. He remained, I believe, about a year or maybe nine months. He remained between nine months and a year.
Q What kind of a person was General Kuntze? Was he a man who flaunted his military power ruthlessly in the faces of those present or was he an objective person?
MR. FENSTERMAHCER: If your Honor please, I believe that the question is improper in form to ask this man's opinion of General Kuntze. I think he might ask what the general reputation of Kuntze was in Greece or in certain circles in which he was familiar with Kuntze.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: The objection will be sustained.
BY DR. MENZEL:
Q How did General Kuntze seem to you personally? Did he seem to you-to be a man whose attitude was a strong one or-
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Your Honor, my objection is the same as it was to the previous question.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: The objection will be sustained. I think it is the feeling of the Tribunal that any facts that this witness might know he can testify to or if he knows anything about his general reputation, why he might testify to that but his personal views are not material here.
BY DR. MENZEL:
Q I shall refrain from asking this question and in conclusion I would like to ask you this. You mentioned before a large viaduct which was blown up twice. Was that the Gorgopotamus Bridge?
A That may be so. I don't want to tie myself down to the name. It was the largest viaduct which had to be crossed by the train.
Q I see.
A It may well be that that was its name but I can't be sure about it.