A. Mainly, during the attack on the ninth of July 1944 near Chora.
Q. Would you please point this out on the map?
A. It is here. (Indicating on the map.)
Q. In the Southwest part of the Peloponnes?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you please describe this attack?
A. On the first of October, 1943, I was supposed to be transferred as a chaplain, to Army Group F in Belgrade. On the first of October, 1944, I was supposed to be transferred to *elgrade to Army Group F. On the second of June 1944, I returned from my last leave. Until the first of October, 1944, I had four months in which to visit all the troops on the Peloponnes once more before my transfer and to hold services with them. Thereupon, I drew up a plan, a travel plan, according to which it was possible in four months to visit about 50 to 60 thousand soldiers. When I drew up this plan I said to myself that first of all I must go to that place where there was the most danger because at the moment -- if I still had time and If I were lucky-- I would still be able to get there and later on this wouldn't be possible.
On the other hand, regarding the larger troop units, battalions and regiments, and larger units, it was much easier to visit them later on, even if the situation became even more critical. So on my journey to Pylos I went with an armed convoy which was composed of about 11 to 12 trucks and cars and about 70 escorts. I used this convoy which came from Athens and joined it in Tripolis. From Tripolis we went via Kalamata.
Q. Would you please point out this on the map? Perhaps you would point it out on the left map down there, there the Peloponnes is on larger scale.
THE PRESIDENT: For the purposes of the record, it seems to me the witness should indicate the place by some reference to a town or the portion of the country or seacoast or something of that nature. Just to say it is here doesn't help the record any.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. Witness, then would you give us exact names of the route taken by this convoy on the left-hand map?
A. The convoy came from Athens down via Tripolis, Kalamata, Pylos. I wanted to go on via Kyparissia back to Athens.
Q. Where did you join it?
A. I came from Corinth as far as Tripolis with the train; then in Tripolis I joined the convoy and went with it first of all as far as Kalamata and then afterwards on to Pylos. Kalamata is in the South of Greece.
THE PRESIDENT: We will take our noon recess at this time.
(A recess was taken until 1330 hours.)
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1330 hours.)
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Courtroom please take their seats.
The Tribunal is again in session:
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. Before the luncheon recess, we had stopped when you described the truck convoy which I believe you joined in Kalamata. Will you please briefly recapitulate for us and then continue?
A. I did not join the convoy in Kalamata but in Tripolis.
Q. I See.
A. It was an armed convoy coming from Athens and I believe it had the task to supply some units on the Peloponnes with reinforcements. I joined this convoy in Tripolis. We came to Kalamata, around noon, on the 18th of July, 1944. The men in charge of the convoy was a master sergeant by the name of Guse.
Q. Of what troop unit was he a member if you happen to know that?
A. I am afraid I cannot tell you that with any amount of certainty. In Kalamata, master sergeant Guse told no that he had just received a telephone call, possibly with Pylos. I don't know that for sure, and this telephone conversation had revealed that a clash with the partisans could be anticipated.......
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Your Honor, I object to any testimony regarding a telephone conversation between the sergeant and some undisclosed person as being complete hearsay.
THE PRESIDENT: Sustained.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
A. That we should count on a clash with the partisans, -
Q. Will you please leave the contents of the telephone conversation: and continue?
A. In the afternoon, we left Kalamata and in the evening by dusk we arrived in Pylos. On the way from Kalamata to Pylos, we had not seen any partisans nor had we noticed anything suspicious.
In Pylos, I had a conversation with the company chief stationed there and with the garrison commander concerning the service which I was going to hold in Pylos the next day. We remained there overnight until thy 19th. In the morning around eight o'clock, I held a service in the soldiers' club in Pylos. I had asked Master Sergeant Guse, the man in charge of the convoy, to give us an additional one or two days and let us leave a little later because I wanted to visit some other units who were stationed around Pylos. I intended to held some more services, but he was in a great hurry. On the 19th of July, approximately between 11 and 12 o'clock in the morning, we left.
In Pylos, we had been warned a second time and this time by "V-men" so-called confidential agents who were used by the German troops to gain important information about partisan movements etc. These V-men, confidential agents, had warned us against continuing near Chora we could expect a surprise attack. In the morning we left Pylos.
Although the man in charge of our convoy had been warned and although It had become known that the telephone communications had been disrupted,-the telephone wires had been cut, and the telephone poles had been sawed off on the Pylos--Chora road, -- around noon, we arrived at Pylos. I beg your pardon, we arrived at Chora. Chora is situated approximately ten kilometers away from Pylos.
Q. Will you please show it on the map?
A. It is situated between Pylos and Kalamata. I don't think it will be on the map. It is quite an insignificant little village.
Q. I only want to see, roughly, the district.
A. Approximately here.
Q. Near Pylos?
A. Yes, near Pylos. When we entered the village of Chora, the village was empty all people living there. When passing through the village we couldn't see a single soul. Comrades of mine who, together with me, were in the convoy and were captured together with me, and who are alive today, say that they can remember that when we arrived in the village, the church bells rang.
Q. You yourself did not hear that, did you?
A. I cannot remember having heard it. When we had passed through the village and reached the exit-
Q. May I interrupt? How was this convoy organized and what did it consist of? I believe you said this morning it had ten to twelve vehicles.
A. Yes.
Q. What kind of vehicles were they and in what kind of a vehicle did you ride and can you give us some details?
A. They were mainly trucks. I remember that two, at the most three, sedans were there too. In one of these which formed the end of the convoy, Master Sergeant Guse was riding. In another sedan, there was a Lt. Colonel of the Engineers whose name I have forgotten and from Pylos on I rode in his sedan together with him at the top of the convoy.
Q. That was which vehicle?
A. It was the second vehicle counted front the front and at the very top there was a truck with a group of machine gunners which was under the command of an NCO. That was the first truck. Behind that truck came our car which was the car of the Lt. Colonel, in which I rode. Then followed the other vehicles, The escort was allegedly--I am afraid I cannot tell you this exactly---consisting of about 70 soldiers, armed with machine guns, carbines and hand grenades.
Q. What was the district there like, the district right near Chora?
A. The terrain was especially favorable for such surprise attacks.
It was a small path loading over a mountain pass and there were steep hills, no trees, heaps of rocks and stones, and bushes.
Q. And what was the road like?
A. On this spot, where the surprise attack took place, we had just passed a curve.
To the best of my recollection, this curve led over a bridge. For the people attacked there was no possibility of cover at all. Near the exit of the village, we saw some suspicious civilians. There were some men who when the convoy appeared suddenly disappeared completely from the scene.
Q That is why they seemed suspicious to you, because they disappeared, or why?
A Because they ran away; that's why. The convoy stopped immediately. The lieutenant colonel and I begged the man in charge of the convoy, the master sergeant, not to continue at that moment. We explained that it seemed necessary to us to send a reconnaissance squad ahead, somebody to secure the heights or somebody to fire in case of a surprise attack and protect us in this way.
The master sergeant did not listen to our suggestions. In substance he said about the following: he had for sometime been taking convoys through the most dangerous terrains and on frequent occasions he had been shot at while en route but he had never lost as much as a single life. In this case, also, he relied on his lucky stars. He was prepared to give full gas and he was prepared to pass the difficult area as quickly and as fast as possible.
When the first car with the machine gunners and the N.C.O. had passed the second road bend we were fired at. This was a strong fire from all sides without our being able to see the enemy. The convoy was stopped immediately. Where the men in the convoy were still alive they took up their arms and went under cover. The only cover which we could find during this surprise attack were our cars.
The lieutenant colonel asked me, "Where are these people shooting from?" I showed him a hill slope which seemed particularly suspicious to me. The lieutenant colonel took hold of his machine pistol, his driver and his carbine and a fourth passenger had a light machine gun which he put into position, and thus they tried as best they could in this terrain, which was unfavorable for us, to open counter fire.
Soon after that the N.C.O. appeared who had been in charge of the machine gunners on the first truck. He held a weapon in his right hand and shouted, "Everybody is dead at the front. Machine gun to the front," I can!t today tell you how long the skirmish lasted -- possibly an hour.
Q How did the men look who attacked you?
A During this skirmish we had no chance of seeing them but afterwards in captivity I had a chance to look at them thoroughly. They had no unified uniform.
Q Would you please continue now?
A When I realized that this skirmish had no chance of success for us and that the convey was lost I did near the car behind which I had crouched for such a long time, Along a rising slope, possibly about 10 meters distant from this car, was an undergrowth and that's where I hid. It was summer and I was wearing a green tropical uniform and thus I was well camouflaged in this green undergrowth. Thus hidden I waited for the end of this skirmish.
Q Approximately how long did you remain in this hiding place?
A That's difficult to answer today, taking into consideration tho excitement which held me at the time. It might have been a question of several minutes.
Q And what did you do then?
A Then I heard the shouts of the attacking partisans come nearer and nearer. Finally it was so close that I could almost understand tho commando shouts and the individual words. I heard that something which night have been a gun was dragged back and forth somewhere quite close to me and put up in position. Suddenly I heard a strange rustling which caused me to look up very cautiously. I did not want to be found. To my intense horror I saw that the whole of the slope was a sea of flames which was creeping closer to me. How this had come about I don't know.
I jumped out from my hiding place in this undergrowth and crept over the pass, tried to proceed towards the valley and to escape towards a little riverlet down below. I had to pass a large plain, a large meadow, which was completely open and in full view. There were no bushes there. There I encountered the first wounded. They called for help.
Together with one of my comrades who was slightly wounded, I carried the wounded down below.
Q Had the fire ceased in the meantime?
A No, shooting and firing went on. Even today I am surprised that we were not fired at, and were not hit. Down below near the riverlet we had as best as we could, I had on me a knapsack and in the knapsack I had some medical supplies, bandages, dressings and elasteplast. I supplied the wounded with dressings and then stayed near them. If now in retrospect I recall the events I might have had the chance to escape even then, but I believed that it was my duty as a parson not to leave the wounded.
How long we remained in this hiding place I cannot tell you, possibly 20 minutes. Then we were found by the partisans who were really the population of the village who participated in the fighting. Suddenly there stood over me a partisan with a machine pistol which he held in position. Before that I had enough time to reflect that now it would be my task to somehow try to save the wounded and that I in my capacity as a chaplain might be able to do that.
Part of the uniform of a German divisional chaplain was a cross which he were around his neck on a chain and this cross was tucked between the second and third buttonhole inside the jacket and only taken out during services. I took it out immediately and explained to the people that I was a divisional chaplain, a German priest.
Another partisan stopped the first one who threatened me with a machine pistol from shooting me. Then I was undressed, not only down to my undershirt, even right down to the skin. My glasses were taken away from me. My golden watch was stolen. My wedding ring was taken off my finger and then I got rags from them, dirty horrible rags.
Q What were they?
A They were a very short pair of pants smeared all over with blood of corpses. Afterwards it got torn during the march through the mountains. Apart from that, apart from this pair of short pants, my feet and the rest of my body was completely bare.
Q. You did not get any shoes or socks, did you?
A. At first I received a few pairs of old torn shoes given to me by the partisan who took my decent shoes away from me. However, I couldn't walk in these shoes so I had to continue barefoot. Later on we took rags and wrapped them around our feet but they came off again and again and because we had no string or wire to fix them. I demanded immediately to be taken to the officer. I was brought to a so-called officer.
Q. You say a "so-called officer." What do you mean by that?
A. I was in no position to recognize him as such unless a partisan had told me he was an officer. I Wouldn't even have known he was an officer.
Q And why not?
A. Because he were no insignia and, according to his uniform, or rather according to his clothing because he didn't wear any uniform, he was not recognizable as an officer.
Q. Was he recognizable as a soldier at all?
A. No, not that I remember.
Q May I interpolate here? What did the other partisans wear, the ones you negotiated with before you came to see the officer?
A. Before that I had not yet negotiated with the partisans, not before.
Q. I mean, what did those partisans wear that you talked to before?
A. I don't recollect, or rather I do recollect that they were no uniform. They were clothes in so-called "robber's clothing." Many of them were barefooted. Their trousers were in rags. Some of them had one she and the second one was missing. Many of them had no coats. In any case, there was no kind of a uniform way of clothing.
I negotiated with the so-called partisan officer and told him once again that I was a chaplain; I was a divisional chaplain and that it might be within the sphere of my possibilities to prevent reprisal measures which might possibly be taken from the Germans. I tried to in fluence him by telling him that down there in the village of Chora many women and children were living and that they would cry for their menfolk if they were shot; the families would be thrown in a disaster if the village of Chora was set afire.
I said: "I myself know many officers. I also know the commandant of Pylos": I could assure him on my word of honor that nobody would be shot, that not one house in Chora would be blown up or burned down if he would allow me and the wounded to set off in liberty. I did not tell him this once; I told him that several times and I made it very clear to him. He must have understood me.
He pacified me and calmed me down, patted me on the shoulder and smiled. I did not, however, think, nor did I have the impression, that he was in the least interested in my suggestion.
Q Did he give any reasons for his rejecting attitude or didn't he say anything at all?
A. He did not give any reasons whatsoever. As I believe and as I am convinced from reasons which can easily be understood, I am firmly convinced, this man did not even want to prevent reprisal measures taken by the Germans because he and the partisans would see in them the best propaganda.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honors please, that is a conclusion by the witness and I ask his testimony be stricken from the records.
THE PRESIDENT: Objection sustained.
Q Was that the where of your offer or did the offer have any other provisions?
A. At a later time I made yet another offer to the partisans.
Q What do you mean by a later time?
A. A few days later while we marches over the mountains, at that time I did not negotiate with the same so-called partisan officer; I negotiated with other partisans. They were people who also claimed that they were officers but their uniforms did not let me recognize that they were. I made them the following offer. We were 22 prisoners. The 23rd man was a Greek civilian whom I don't want to mention particularly in my description here.
I am only talking about the 22 because I don't want to refer to the 23rd who was a Greek.
I made the offer, or rather the suggestion, that if he would allow me and a mounted partisan to go to Kalamate or to Maecene to the next German position, then I would contact the German agencies in Kalamate and negotiate with them concerning a possible exchange. I suggested that for one of these 22 prisoners of which I was one, for 1, 40 hostages be set free from the hostage camp.
Q. For one German?
A. Yes, for one German set free, 40 hostages set free from the hostage camp. As it seemed to me, they were at first interested in this proposal. Why it finally did not come off, I don't know. During these negotiations we were quartered in a hay stable. Suddenly we started on the march again.
Q. Has that anything to do with the suggestion made by you?
A. No.
Q. Then I would like to interrupt here. What became of the other members of the convoy? Please think back to that time after the surprise attack was over and when you negotiated with the so-called officers. What had happened to the other members of the convoy? You had described that the convoy had consisted of about 70 persons in all.
A. During the skirmish I was only present at one spot of the convoy and, therefore, I could not gain a picture of, nor did I have any insight in the extent of the skirmish. First of all, I and five prisoners were led away. There might have been four. Then we were guarded by sentries and led into the mountains. During this transport I myself was beated so that I had a deep, large wound on my foot which was septic for many weeks.
Q. And why were you beaten?
A. No reason whatsoever.
Q. Will you now please answer?
A. One day -- it was either the second or the third day of our march over the mountains -- we were accommodated in a stable.
In this stable I found other prisoners also.
Q. What kind of a stable was that?
A. I believe I recall that it was a hay stable. Later on we were accommodated very much worse. I remember, for instance, one night -
Q. You mean during the march?
A. Yes, during the march I remember one night we slept in a pig stable and there we had to lie in the dirt and the pigs ran around amongst the prisoners. In this dirt there were stones so one could not sit down even, let alone lie down. Then during the march we slept in schools on narrow benches and in churches. Mostly we had no blankets whatsoever. We were told again and again that they didn't have anything and that's why they couldn't give us anything. The march through the mountains demanded of us considerable physical effort. Great hardships were connected with this march along the climbing and the marching on bare feet on the stony ground of the dried up mountain riverlets, bad food, we were starving and thirsty. Everything was so strenuous and terrible that one of my comrades collapsed several times during the march and I and other prisoners had to carry him.
(Mueller-Torgow)
Q. How long did you have to march each day, - approximately?
A. I did not have my watch because it was taken away from me; from sunrise, -- sometimes even before sunrise, -- until alter dusk.
Q. And how did the march continue, witness?
A. It was particularly hard for us that we had to march barefooted on the stony ground, I remember one instance when we arrived at a village. In this village we were supplied and looked after by a socalled medical orderly; I particularly say a "so-called medical" orderly.
Q. Why do you say that?
A. One of my captured comrades whose name I have forgotten, but I know he came from Moravia, had sore feet and blisters on his feet, and through the marching, stones had dug themselves into his wounds. The so-called medical orderly of the partisans-
JUSTICE BURKE: I wonder if it might be possible to eliminate some of the unnecessary repetitive details?
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: Yes, indeed, Your Honor.
Q. Will you please try to avoid repetitions as much as possible.
A. He tried to get the stones out of the wounds in his feet with a printed instrument, and he did. that with a devilish grin, while he told us at the same time how much one of his relatives had suffered under the Germans. The wounded who was taken care of by him, screamed on top of his lungs, because he could not stand the pain. The consequence of this treatment was that the same man later on could hardly walk at all. The pains were worse than they had even been before. Thus we marched 8 to 10 days approximately. I cannot give you the exact dates. We marched through the mountains, and finally arrived somewhere near Sparta, a little town which is situated in the Taygetos mountains.
Q. What is the name of the little town?
A. Georgici.
Q. Will you please spell it?
A. Georgici. G-e-o-r-g-i-c-i. There in Georgici, we were accom modated in a school room.
This was the same room where the partisan guards stayed. For the first time we received straw there, - plenty of straw. For the first time we received decent food, potatoes boiled in olive oil. Food was adequate, so- that all of us, after the first day of our arrival, hoped that from now on nothing more would happen to us.
The next day, the day after our arrival in Georgici, we were interrogated for a long time. The interpreters in this interrogation were almost all German deserters. In many cases they were soldiers who for criminal reasons, were members of the so-called Probation Battalion, and for criminal reasons they had deserted the troops, - at least in many cases.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I object, Your Honors, that is a conclusion of the witness. Questions of that kind should be qualified first.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: I wanted just now to ask him how he knows that.
THE PRESIDENT: You can qualify the witness.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. Will you tell us please then, witness, how you know these facts?
A. I myself had been interrogated by such people.
Q. I beg your pardon, how do you know that they were criminals?
A. I know that because many of these soldiers which I saw there again, I had seen before on my official trips. I frequently visited the 999th Unit, 5 battalions of which were, to the best of my knowledge, on the Peloponnes.
Q. What was this 999th unit?
A. It consisted of probation units.
Q. And what people were in these units?
A. 20 per cent of them, at the most 30 per cent of them, were people we had been detained for political reasons, 70 per cent of them were men who came from the prisons and penitentiaries as robbers, murderers or for other criminal offenses which they had committed, and who were put on a period of probation and given a chance to do their best during war commitments and thus become useful members of society again.
Q. Did you recognize the people who interrogated you there, or do you know from some other source that they were criminals, and that they had deserted?
A. I know it partly from personal experiences which I made from their own uncautious discussions and conversations. I know of one man whose Christian name was Leo. I don't know his other name, and he very proudly called himself Leonidas with the Greeks.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness has stated that he knows of certain criminal characteristics. It hasn't been questioned yet, and I doubt the necessity of going into the details. It is probably unnecessarily lengthening this examination.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: I only have asked him these questions because of Mr. Fenstermacher's objection. I had not intended to ask him these things.
THE PRESIDENT: So far as the Tribunal is concerned, it is satisfied. do are not interested in the details. Necessarily we must limit the field in which we carry on the examination. No one wants to restrict you, out we cannot go too far afield.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. Will you continue, please, as to what happened to you and to your fellow prisoners?
A. The interrogation, the second day after our arrival in Georgici, lasted about 2 hours. We were assured there that we need not have any fear; that nothing would happen to us. By the way, we were told that earlier. The second day after our arrival in Georgici, toward dusk, suddenly a young partisan officer approached us, gave a few brief commands, and orders to his soldiers, to his partisans.
Q. Was he recognizable as an officer, as you call him?
A. I do not remember that we were any insignia, but I recall that he were a British uniform. He asked me to tell the other prisoners that we would now go on. A brief march of 20 minutes was ahead of us and then we would be getting good food again and could sleep, that they had arrived at the end of their march.
I was just going to interpret these words and tell the others about them, when he and 17 of the 22 prisoners had left the room. One of them whom I had mentioned before, when I said that he had very sore foot and was wounded on his foot, didn't walk. He crept on his hands and knees. I told the partisan then, -- I told the so-called partisan officer, that this man was in no position to continue on his march because his foot were sore.
Again I was assured that he would be put on a mule; that he wouldn't have to walk; he would be able to ride, that I could look out of the window and look for myself, and really there was a mule outside. Five of the 22 prisoners retained behind. I am firmly convinced, and I believe that I have evidence for this, that these 17 men who were led away, were all shot, every one of them.
Q. How do you know?
A. I know that for the following reasons. First, very guardedly, because it was very expedient in my position to be cautious, I learned from the Greek civilian population in the village that they were shot, and even where they were shot in a little forest near Goorgici.
MR FENSTERMACHER: Your Honors this is heresay, and I ask that it be stricken.
THE PRESIDENT: Sustained.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. Please continue.
A. The second reason was -
Q. Let's leave these reasons for a moment. Just give us facts, and your own observations. Just give us the facts.
A. Those are facts. The German partisans whom I met there assured me on repeated occasions that this was so.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Your Honor, I object -
THE PRESIDENT: Will you repeat your statement?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Your Honor I object on the ground that this testimony continues to be hearsay.
THE PRESIDENT: Sustained.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: If it please Your Honors, the witness is only relating what he himself experienced.
THE PRESIDENT: He made a statement that his information was from what he claimed to be German partisans, whom he understood to be German partisans That necessarily will be hearsay. If he has any personal observations, it is he saw anything himself, that might be competent to ask him. Ask him if he saw anything, and what he himself was able to observe. If he has any information -along that line it might be possible it would be competent.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: The witness was merely going to relate facts from which the Tribunal was to draw the conclusions. I believe that was the object he was aiming at. Even if he cannot claim that he himself saw these 17 Germans killed, because he himself did not witness this -
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will adhere to its former ruling. If you have no further showing, I think the Tribunal will have to adhere to its former ruling.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: Then we will close this particular chapter.
Q. Will you please continue and tell us what you experienced as a prisoner of the partisans? Were you ever exchanged or did you remain with the partisans? What happened?
A. One day a representative of the Greek Red Cross appeared in Gegrgici. I was called and to the right of me sat the representative of the Greek Red Cross who was a civilian. Opposite me sat a man in British uniform. Later on I learned that he was a partisan officer, - was supposed to have been a partisan officer.
Q. Your yourself did not know that from your own observations?
A. I only know it from hearsay. I know it from what others told me.
Q. Was he recognizable as an officer, or as a soldier?
A. One could only see that he was better dressed than the other partisans. This partisan, - so-called partisan officer put a pistol cartridge in front of me and asked me whether I know what that was. His second question was, "Do you want to return to the Germans?" and then he said, with a threatening gesture, "I, myself, want to take you to the Germans".
From this I concluded that in this situation I had to be extremely cautious, and therefore, in order not to endanger my life, I waived the exchange.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honors please I ask the witness be instru to testify as to the facts and not as to any conclusions which he arrived at.
THE PRESIDENT: Sustained.
Q. Were you later exchanged, witness?
A. I was not exchanged. Then in August, 1944, the same year, started the withdrawing movement of the German troops. I could hear them from where I was stationed, through detonations and blowing up of bridges, etc. Then followed the last battle between the Elas and the Greek National Units.
Within a very short time, the partisans had succeeded in taking one large town after another. The fight for Kalamata only lasted a few hours.
Q. How do you know that members of Elas fought against Greek Nationals?
A. Because the partisans made regular announcements to the populati