A. I cannot give you the details of the orders which I gave these sub-area administrative HQs, I can only repeat that what was known as the Felber order, I passed on to the administrative sub-area HQs in October, with the provise that I reserve the right for all decisions. That order was then overtaken by what was called the Loehr order of 7 October which was exhibit 379, which I could not recall myself.
Q. But the Felber order to which you refer did not come to you until late October, 1943, did it?
A. I cannot give you the precise date, but I said that it reached us by the end of October or beginning of November.
Q. Were these administrative sub-area HQs subordinate to you between the end of August and the end of October, 1943?
A. The sub-area administrative HQs arrived after September, the last one I believe arrived in December or thereabouts.
Q. How many were subordinate to you during the interim period between August and October.
A. Well, I cannot give you the exact figures, but I know for instance that the Joannina one arrived only on 9 November, the one in Larissa arrived later still and the Chalkis a little earlier. The majority of the sub-area administrative HQs were there by the beginning of November.
Q. Did you ever hear of any reprisal measures being carried out by those sub-area administrative HQs, which were in existence at that time?
A. I know of no cases at the moment.
Q. They did have the authority, did they not, to carry out reprisal measures?
A. I had reserved the right to make decisions by the so-called Felmer order.
Q. I am speaking of the period prior to the Felmer order.
A. I see. I cannot say with certainty how it was handled then.
Q. Would you look, General, at document book 15, page 97 in the German and page 69 in the English. This is an order of General Loehr, dated 22 August 1943 to the Commanding General and Commander, Serbia and you will note at the bottom of the first paragraph he states: "The revolts and unrest which are constantly flaring up in the Southeast area makes it necessary for the local territorial office Administrative Subarea Headquarters or Town Headquarters to be in a position, if necessary, to apply severest reprisal measures immediately." Did that command of General Loehr have any meaning for the Administrative Sub-area Headquarters that were under your supervision prior to the Felber order?
A. Mr. Fenstermacher, had you read more of this order it would have become clear that in this order and the reprisal measures concerned consisted in imposing collective files. The order is addressed to the Commanding General Serbia and the distribution list merely shows that I, who was in charge of Southern Greece, merely received a copy for my information. What steps, if any, I took in consequence I cannot say today.
Q. You will note, General Speidel, that the sentence following the one I read seems to indicate that severest reprisal measures include are not limited to, the imposition of fines. Could reprisal measures in that context include the execution of hostages as well as the imposition of fines?
A. Speaking quite generally, yes. Reprisal measures include executions and the imposition of fines, but here we were exclusively concerned with the imposition of fines.
Q Did these Administrative Sub-area Headquarters that were subordinate to you have anything to do with the administration or control of hostage camps in the various areas in which they were situated?
A I don't know whether hostage camps were established at all. An order once reached us to establish hostage camps, but from some reports of mine, I have read, I find that this order was not carried out because it was not possible for guards. Whether or where hostage camps were established, I am not able to say and I do not recollect anything about it.
Q Would you look General Speidel at document book 17 at page 85 in the German and page 117 in the English. This is your report as Military Commander Greece, dated 18 December 1943 and on page 87 of the German and on page 120 of the English you talk about counter measures and you mention the erection of hostage camps in various cities. Were these camps within the administration of your sub-area headquarters?
A I am afraid I cannot tell you, Mr. Fenstermacher, but I may recall here that I have taken counter measures in this paragraph in order to explain that the measures listed therein were not always to be regarded as measures taken by the Military Commander, because further down on the same page it says that the erection of hostage camps must not be carried out because we have no guards at our disposal. If the counter measures include all the measures I took myself, then you would have to conclude that I was in charge of watching the railroad, that I took the measures against Greek hospitals, but I already contradicted that.
Q You talk in page 87 of the German and 120 of the English about new erection of hostage camps being discontinued, apparently because you did not have sufficient forces at your disposal to do so. Is it true that if you had sufficient forces at your disposal, your units and your subordinate troops would have been in charge of the construction of such camps?
A What I would have done under certain conditions, I cannot tell you. If I had the order and the possibility to do so, I would have carried it out.
Q Isn't it true, General Speidel, that no reprisal measures could have been carried out by the troops before they had first cleared the matter through the Sub-area Administrative Headquarters?
A You are referring now to the so-called Loehr order of 22 December, 1943, exhibit 379?
Q Yes, that is in document book 16, page 98 of the German and page 47 of the English.
A This is the new regulation on hostage measures of 23 December, 1943. I said about this before that unfortunately I do not remember this order because it was issued when I was ill, but that it was merely passed on to me is quite clear to me. In paragraph 3 on the second page it says that reprisal measures are to be carried out by a divisional commander by arrangement with the Sub-Area Administration Headquarters concerned. To what extent this cooperation really existed is beyond my knowledge and I do not recollect it. It says in the next sentence that if no agreement can be reached, the territorial commander competent will decide, which would have been me, but I do not recollect a single case where an application of that sort reached me, because that application would have drawn my attention to this order and it would have then refreshed my memory.
Q Wasn't this the way it operated, General Speidel, in case of an attack upon a troop unit and the death of German soldiers, the unit involved call the Sub-Area Administrative Headquarters Commander and decided what reprisal measures if any would be carried out and then the Administrative Sub-Area Headquarters took care of executing the hostages and if it needed assistance for the execution squads, it asked that an execution squad be assigned from the unit.
Isn't that the way the procedure at least was outlined in the Loehr order?
A The Loehr order did not order that. You really cannot construe that from it. It really was like this, which may be seen from all the reports. In the area where there was fighting against the bands, the troops made their own reprisal measures by attacking back and the Subarea Headquarters was informed about it if they were lucky enough and had good connections and then they passed it on. The Sub-Area Headquarters was not an execution squad, it was an administrative agency.
Q Look, General, on page 99 of the German and page 49 of the English, in the paragraph where General Loehr states that all reprisal measures are to be ordered by the competent field commanders and that the unit is to support the Administrative Sub-Area HQs in carrying them out. Doesn't that mean that the Sub-Area HQs were the execution squad?
A I am afraid I have not found that passage yet, I am sorry.
Q It should be on page 99 of the German.
A In what paragraph please?
Q The paragraph beginning: "All other reprisal measures, for example for German Civilians, etc....."
A Yes, if I may say so it does not say those reprisal measures, it says all other reprisal measures which is something entirely different. First of all we have reprisal measures by the troops and then it simply says, "All other reprisal measures, for example for German Civilians, persons employed by the occupying powers, the troops have to support the Administrative Sub-Area Headquarters." In other words, a clear-cut difference is made between measures taken by the troops and those taken by the Administrative Sub-Area Headquarters and all other matters which are confined to a small radius, the SubHeadquarters has to carry them out and rely on troops for the support.
Q In the paragraph preceding the one I read there, it states, General Speidel, that reprisal measures for losses in the air corps, navy, police and the Organization Todt are to be ordered principally by the territorial commanders.
You were a territorial commander, were you not?
A Quite true, it says so but in actual fact I never did so because I apparently did not know all the details of this order and because no such applications reached me.
Q According to this order, you would have the order as territorial commander for your reprisal measures for losses of police would you not?
A Losses of police of course means German police. Inasmuch as they were not suffered during band fighting, because the area of Boeotia where band fighting occurred these measures, were taken, for the pacifying of the country by the Higher SS and Police Leader, otherwise measures taken by the police in this case would mean measures by other police during their duty.
Q Now look at the paragraph below the one I have just referred to, where it states that "The organs of the SS and Hoeh.Pol. Fuehrer and counter intelligence detachments are likewise to be followed in all hostage cases." That means the Area Sub-HQS units there was to select the hostages supported by the units and then later carried out?
THE INTERPRETER: Could you repeat, Mr. Fenstermacher, the interpreter did not follow.
Q Does this mean that the units of Schimana would simply select the hostages which the Administration Sub-Area or military submitted by the units involved then carried out?
A It cannot mean that, but what it meant at the time I cannot say because it did not come into effect. It says if necessary the organs of the SS are to be called in. I cannot recall a single case where I called in the SS in order to select reprisal prisoners. Quite apart from that, I myself never carried out any reprisal measures in which I had need of the SS.
Q Would you look now at document book No. 20 at page 66 in the German and page 94 in the English. This is from an activity report of the 117th Jaeger Division, which at this time was subordinate to the LXVLLL Corps and stationed on the Peloponnes. You will note in paragraph V there is reference to an apparent dispute between the Administration Sub-Area HQs and the troop units with regard to which of those two units had the authority to carry out reprisal measures. There is also reference, General Speidel, to the effect that the execution of reprisal measures has come to naught, because the sub-area headquarters complained on the basis of a decree of the Military Commander Greece and the authority for carrying out such measures. Can you recall the decree of yours which is referred to there?
A No, I do not remember any such decree. Some order must have been given that is one of those which I don't know. I myself read this passage on direct examination in order to show that in the Peloponnes command, decisions had been established in the beginning and that an order had been issued does not mean that the Sub-area Headquarters would carry out reprisal measures.
Q Was it usual for the Administrative Sub-Area HQs to have disputes with the troops regarding who would carry out reprisal measures or was this situation on the Peloponnes somewhat exceptional?
A This is the only case which I have found here in the documents.
Q But you cannot recall any other incidents where there were disputes between the Administrative Sub-Area Headquarters and the troop units?
A I cannot recollect any details. It is entirely possible that disputes arose, but I cannot recall any.
Q Isn't it true, General, that you and your Administrative Sub-area Headquarters were very jealous about your authority to carry out reprisal measures and insisted on it on many occasions.
A That is entirely wrong, Mr. Fenstermach, I had to insist on the fact that my rights as a General were not curtailed and that the Administrative Sub-Area HQS could go on doing their work, but as for reprisal measures they are not important in this context at all unless in the opposite sense of the word, because in the carrying out of reprisal measures no one chose them and we thought they were an inevitable and unpleasant duty in the war.
Q In this paragraph 5 of the activity report of the 117th Jaeger Division, it talks about long drawn-out negotiations after which the the administrative subarea headquarters was persuaded to transfer to the division its obligations and duties regarding reprisal measures. It would not appear that the subarea headquarters were reluctant to give up its right to execute hostages and take such other reprisal steps.
A Mr. Fenstermacher, I was not present when they had these conversations and I cannot say how intense the dispute became.
Q Will you look now, General, at your document book No. 5 at page 50? This is one of your orders dated the 28th of November 1943 and you state in the second paragraph, paragraph 2, that if the troop issued orders or instructs contrary to those of the military commander Greece representations have to be made to the troop immediately; should the latter insist on the carrying out of these orders a report must be submitted to the Military Commander Greece.
Isn't that an indication that you wanted your administrative subarea headquarters to -
A Mr. Fenstermacher, where does it say this? This paragraph is concerned with reprisal measures. If I give you an example for this paragraph -- if, for instance, I issued the order that land must not be sold out and it is sold out all the same, then this order applies.
Q There is no limitation mentioned here regarding the type of orders which the troop might issue, General Speidel.
DR. WEISSGERBER: I object here, your Honors. This document has not been offered by me.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I believe that Dr. Weissgerber is correct in that, your Honors. I withdraw my question.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: Very well.
A Nevertheless, I am quite happy to say that such basic -
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: I take it the witness chooses to answer notwithstanding the objection.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I didn't quite understand, your Honor.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: I take it the witness chooses to answer in any event.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: It is agreeable to me if it is agreeable to Dr. Weissberger.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: Very well.
A If I issue so basic order an order, not all possible events can be enumerated which might crop up in these cases. They might be disputes in the economic field, disputes in the field of billeting or anything else. It may be anything among the many fields in administration. There is no possibility given here to discuss from here the fact that reprisal measures are being referred to.
Q Would you look now, General Speidel, at Document Book XIX at page 150 in the German and page 139 in the English? This is an order of General Stettner the Commander of the 1st Mountain Division, dated 25 October 1943 in which reference is made to a 50 to 1 reprisal quota.
In sub-paragraph "a" of paragraph "1" of that order it refers to a retaliation quota of 50 to 1 in case a member of the German Wehrmacht is killed in a territory considered pacified. The areas of your administrative subarea headquarters were considered pacified territory, were they not?
AAs a general rule, you could describe the immediate vicinity of the subarea headquarters as pacified. This was not a fixed term. It fluctuated pending the situation.
Q General Stettner goes on to say that if that reprisal quota is to be applied in a territory considered pacified application must be made to you or at least through you as military commander Greece.
Isn't that an indication, General Speidel, that the troop units operating in the area of your administrative subarea headquarters would also have to consult your administrative subarea headquarters commander before they would apply this retaliation quota?
A Mr. Fenstermacher, it was this order which I discussed in such detail on direct examination. I am not quite clear myself how the divisional commander of the 1st Mountain Division, with whom I had no point of contact, took it on himself to give orders of this sort. I also proved at the same time that the subarea headquarters which you just mentioned in his area was established only after the period of time when this order was issued.
There is only one other explanation possible which is that division had brought this order from its old area which is Serbia, which was the Felber order which was valid before and it was only in October, by the end of October, that I passed it on to the subarea headquarters.
Q Would you turn again to the Loehr order in Document Book 16 at page 99 of the German, rather 100 of the German and page 50 of the English. If the administrative subarea headquarters were not responsible for the execution of the hostages, it was at least their duty to publish their announcements regarding the execution of hostages and such other reprisal measures that were taken, was it not, General?
A It says there in paragraph "E"; "Every reprisal measure must be publicized." As I said on direct examination, publicising a reprisal measure was carried out by the man in charge of the subarea headquarters in Athens. I have known in this connection that these things were merely publicized and that did not mean that the measure was carried out and that is how the subarea headquarters in Athens complied with that order.
Q Did the administrative subarea headquarters in Larissa and Messolunghi and some of the other places you mentioned also publish reprisal measures when they had been carried out by the troops within their area to your knowledge?
A I am afraid I don't know, Mr. Fenstermacher.
Q You only know about the case in which the administrative subarea headquarters in Athens published certain reprisal measures which is contained in this document.
A Because that case was contained in the document; otherwise, I wouldn't have known it.
Q Now, you will note on page 99 of the German, still on the Loehr order, page 48 of the English, General Loehr states that no reprisals are to be carried out unless damage is done. He says that in paragraph 2 on page 99 of the German and page 48 of the English. Is that an indication that at the time -
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Withdrawn.
Q Is that an indication by General Loehr in December 1943 that when you, General Speidel, in January 1943 executed 19 hostages, although no damage had been done, that was rather an error on your part?
Do you follow my question? It is somewhat involved, I admit.
A It was involved but I did follow you, Mr. Fenstermacher. I also have understood the error on which the question is based. You say that no damage had been done in the case of my reprisal measure in January 1943. I should like to call to mind here that a ship had been damaged to the extent that it had to be beached and could no longer be used for supply traffic which I would call doing damage.
Q Would you look now at Document Book XVIII at page 1 in both the English and the German. This is an order of General Felber as military commander Southeast dated the 1st of January 1944. He states in paragraph 4 of that order on page 2 of both the English and the German that "troops and police have to comply with requests to carry out reprisal measures, losses suffered that generally by the troops will be avenged by them, that the police will provide execution detachment to avenge its own losses and, in addition, all attacks on protected non-military persons and objects.
In the first paragraph of that order he states that the Commanders of the Administrative Subarea Headquarters are competent to order reprisals.
I don't suppose you know whether or not the situation in Serbia and the relationship between Felber and his relationship with the administrative subarea headquarters were the same as those which prevailed in Greece between you and your administrative subarea headquarter.
A There was a fundamental difference, inasmuch as in Serbia troops and subarea headquarters were unified in one hand whereas in Greece the troops and the subarea headquarters were two totally separate, agencies. It was, therefore, much easier in Serbia and much simpler to reach an agreement between the two measures.
Q Now, I would like to take up, General Speidel, some of the reports which came to you from your administrative subarea headquarters units.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: Mr. Fenstermacher, I think we will take our recess at this time.
THE MARSHAL: The court will be in recess until fifteen-fifteen.
(A recess was taken.)
(AFTER RECESS)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: You may proceed, Mr. Fenstermacher.
CROSS EXAMINATION GENERAL SPEIDEL BY MR. FENSTERMACHER (continued):
Q. General Speidel, regarding the authority of your administrative sub-area headquarters, and you as Military Commander Greece to order reprisal measures, I would like you to look at this document which was introduced by the Prosecution during the cross-examination of General Felmy. It is exhibit 629. These are excerpts from the War Diary of Army Group E, during March, 1944. Would you look at page 7 of both the German and the English document, under, "Measures of Reprisal"? Do you have it, General?
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: Page 7, Mr. Fenstermacher?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Yes, I believe when we offered it, Your Honor, we asked that it be marked from pages 1 through page 9.
PRESIDING JUSTICE BURKE: That is correct. It is paginated at the top in any event.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Yes at the top; this would be on page 7 at the top and 7 at the bottom.
Q. In this entry, under "Measures of Reprisal" it states that the Shock Division on the Island of Rhodes, requests clarification regarding what offices of the Military Administration the Commander is to contact if he wishes to carry out reprisal measures according to instructions of Army Group E. The entry mentions that the Chief of the Army Administration with its seat in Rhodes, is subordinated to the Chief of the Army Administration at Military Commander Greece, and continues in the Greek part of the area of command there is only one branch office of the local headquarters 817, Athens, which is also subordinated to the Chief of the Military Administration with the Commander in Chief Greece. It seems expedient not to have the ordering of reprisals or of measures of reprisal depend upon an agreement with an office on the mainland, but to provide an office of the military situated in the Command are itself.
Did the Commander on Rhodes have to first consult with you, as Military Commander, Greece, before he could order reprisal measures?
A. I had nothing to do whatsoever with the commander of Rhodes. Rhodes was an island in the Dodekanes, the Italian occupied part of the Peloponnes, and was therefore not under my jurisdiction.
The Greek mainland part of the shock troops Rhodes are mentioned here. I would deduce from this, although I do not know for sure, that some of the Greek Islands belonged to the area and that apparently on one of these islands a representative of the Military Government was stationed in order to take care of administrative measures there. I am not sure of this fact, but I gathered it from the document.
In this case we are concerned with an inquiry about the shock troops Rhodes, possibly on the basis of the previously mentioned Loehr order.
They ask who they should approach in order to comply with the request that in certain cases a sub area administrative headquarters would have to participate in the measure. That is the content of this inquiry which is not available here in the original but just as a note in the War Diary of Army Group E. What decision was made subsequent to this request, I do not know. Probably a decision was arrived at rather late, because the inquiry is dated 20 April 1944. In my opinion, therefore, this inquiry does not tell us anything at all. At least it does not tell us anything about my organization. It is a request to clarify what agency the Commander of Rhodes should approach in order to comply with the Loehr order.
Q. Then there is mention of an agreement with an office on the mainland regarding the ordering of measures of reprisal; does that refer to your office as Military Commander, Greece?
A. Do you mean the very last sentence?
Q. Yes, that is the one I mean.
A. It seems expedient not to make the ordering of reprisal measures dependent upon the agreement of an office in the mainland, but to make the Military Authority in the locality concerned responsible for this ordering.
I take it from this sentence that the Military Commander of Rhodes thinks it is not expedient that he has to refer to an office on the mainland in such cases, which could refer either to the administrative sub area headquarters of Athens or the Military Commander Greece, because the distances were too great and the communication lines too difficult.
He is of the opinion that some agency should be named easier approachable to come to an agreement on the basis of this order. This is what I am reading from the file note of Army Group E.
Q. Did you, as Military Commander Greece, or your administrative sub area headquarters, have authority to take reprisal measures for the death of Greek executives, that is Greeks who worked in or with German offices?
A. I cannot tell you that exactly at the moment. I cannot tell you what provisions were made in this event. It is quite possible.
Q. Would you look, General, at Document Book 18, at page 21 in the German, and page 18 in the English; this is a report of General Felber, as Military Commander Southeast, for the 12th of February, 1944, and under Military Commander Greece, he refers to the execution of 25 communist reprisal prisoners, as revenge for the murder of Greek executives. You were on leave at the time, but you remember having left instructions at your office to retaliate for the murder of Greek executives by executing Communist reprisal prisoners?
A. I am only now understanding your question which you put before. You are referring to Greek police, but I refer to something entirely different. I referred to reprisal measures taken for any greek officials, mayors or people of that standing, and I said that I did not know about reprisal measures in such instances.
Here, however, we are concerned with reprisal measures for police organs, executive police organs of the Greek government, and these would comprise Greek police, Greek gendarmerie and the Greek Evzone units.
To come back to your question, before I left, I did not leave behind any orders or regulations of this kind because that was a question to be decided by the Higher SS and Police Leader under his own responsibility.
Q. You mean the office of the Military Commander had no authority to order reprisal measures for the murder of Greek officials? That was Schimana's jurisdiction?
A. Are you now referring to Greek police organs or any kind of Greek authority? We have to make a distinction between those.
Q. I am referring here now to Greek executives. I take it by that we mean labor officials or mayors. I am limiting m question to refer only to executives such as mayors or labor officials of the Greek government and not police.
A. As to Mayors and other state agencies, I can only repeat what I said before. I do not know any longer whether provisions were made in the Felber order for instance according to which Greek executive organs like mayors, etc. fell under the reprisal measures, retaliation by reprisal measures, but to the best of my knowledge it is provided in the Loehr order.
Q. So you would say then that your Deputy who was serving for you while you were on leave, at the time of this report of 12 February 1944, of General Felber, which refers to the execution of 25 reprisal prisoners as revenge for the murder of Greek executives, - was done in accordance with instructions which your Deputy had when he took over your office?
A Mr. Fenstermacher, I would like to point out a misunderstanding under which we find ourselves at the moment. We are talking at cross purposes. Under executive organs here we have to understand Greek policemen, and this report here refers to a second report on page 53 of this same document, where it states very clearly that as reprisal for murder, our wounding of Greek police, Evzone members and Gendarmerie members, the Higher SS and Police leaders on the 10th of February shot hostages, - 25 hostages in Athens.
This is the same case which we find here in this document, so that the other possibility of mayors and of state officials, does no longer exist.
Q Would you look then at this document, General, NOKW 1838, this is offered as Prosecution's Exhibit 630, Your Honor, would you turn General, to page 6 of both the German and English, of the mimeographed copy, - if you have the original, it is on page 12 of the original document, - those are excerpts from your War Diary as Military Commander Greece, and I am particularly concerned now with the entry in the War Diary for the 30th of January, 1944. It states here that as reprisal measure for the murder of Minister Kulywas by Communists, 50 Communist hostages were shot on 29 January by order of the Military Commander in Greece".
Was Minister Kulywas who is referred to here, a member of the Greek government?
A I did not know him, but I assume if it says here, Minister Kulywas was murdered, I assume that he was a member of the Cabinet. At the same time, however, I would like to point out that at that time I was not in Greece.
Q What I am wondering is whether or not this reprisal measure was ordered in accordance with instructions or orders which were in existence at your office at the time your Deputy took over for you?
A Mr. Fenstermacher, I cannot tell you today what orders were of importance, and decisive for my deputy; in order to say that I would have to have all of the orders, and I have not got them.
Q Were there, General, orders for the execution of reprisal measures for members of the Greek government in existence in your office as Military Commander Greece?
A I cannot remember that for that special case I issued an order, because I did not even have to give a written order, because the only person I could address it to would be myself, because if I had decided to take such measures, I would have been the person to carry them out.
Q Do you think your deputy took this reprisal measure on his own initiative?
A I cannot say that, Mr. Fenstermacher.
I cannot judge the motives and decisions of other persons, after four years.
Q Did your chief of staff tell you about this incident when you returned from being ill in Germany?
A I cannot remember that either.
Q Now would you turn to page 24 of the original which you have, page 11 in both the English and the German, to the entry in your War Diary for the 3rd of April, 1944, it states there:
"As reprisal measures for the attack on the head of the Greek Labor Office in Trikkata, 4 Communists were shot."
Do you know about that incident?
A No, I know nothing about it. Of course, I read about it in the documents but it is in no way apparent who ordered the measure, who ordered this reprisal measure. This seems to be one of the many reports of the administrative area headquarters which were passed on as 1 C reports.
One cannot draw any conclusions from such a report.
Q Where is Trikkala?
A Trikalla is located in Thrace, and should be to the north that is between Larissa and Salonika.
Q Now, general, is it not quite apparent that there was no tactical operation concerned here, so that any troop execution squad is not involved?
Isn't it also apparent that since the man who was murdered was not a police official that an execution of reprisal measures by Schimana was not involved?
A I can not believe that it was Schimana who ordered it. I would not know what he had to do in Trikkla, but Trikkala is mentioned in the band combat reports of the Commander Salonika Aegean again and again at that particular period of time as a constant source of unrest and in connection with band operations they repeatedly talk of reprisal measures so it seems to me by no means impossible that such a measure was taken in this particular connection. At least from this brief notice from the certificate in a 1-C report we cannot gather who ordered the measure.
Q When you got information to the effect that reprisal measures were being carried out in the area of your 7th administrative sub areas headquarters did you usually check to determine whether they were carried out by the troops or whether they were carried out by your headquarters?
A I was in no position to check all of these individual reports. First of all it would depend on which of these reports I saw at all, of which I was aware. On direct examination I stated that currently the situation was reported to me, that I was told of the places of surprise attacks, of unrest here and there, and from such reports I would gain a survey of the situation. Reports which did not concern the Military Commander in his own area were passed on automatically. Therefore I cannot tell you today whether this particular report was submitted to me or not, and whether at the time I deemed it necessary to make investigations on that. That, I believe is, to be quite honest, asking too much, that I should know this today.
Q Do you believe, general, that in the case of all of these reprisal measures which were taken in or about the areas of your 7 administrative sub area headquarters, that in each of those cases your administrative sub-area headquarters had to give its consent to the troops or to Schimana before those reprisal measures could be executed?