Q. What were the tasks of the German troops in Croatia?
A. The Croatian government in order to maintain law, order and security in the country, had to be supported and the country had to be protected against possible invasion.
THE PRESIDENT: We will take our morning recess at this time.
THE MARSHAL: The court will be in recess until eleven-fifteen.
(A recess was taken).
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Courtroom will please find their seats.
The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed, Dr. Gawlik.
DIRECT EXAMINATION - Continued BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. When did you arrive in Croatia, General Dehner?
A. In August 1943.
Q. How long were you in Croatia altogether?
A. Altogether I was in Croatia for about five months.
Q. During this period were you continuously in Croatia?
A. Shortly after I arrived I had to go for a few days to Berlin on official business, and following this I took leave which had been promised to me for sometime. Therefore, from the 28th of August 1943 until the 26th of September 1943 I was absent. Then I was in Croatia again until December, in January I was absent again. Then I remained in Croatia until I went into Hungary on the 18th of March 1944.
Q. As evidence for the absence of General Dehner I submit Dehner Document No. 1 as Dehner Exhibit No. 9, from Dehner Document Book I, Pages 1 to 3. This is an excerpt from the Army Pay Book, which is an official document. On Page 3 of the Document Book it can be seen as to when General Dehner was absent. In this connection I submit further Dehner Document No. 16, from Dehner Document Book III, as Dehner Exhibit No. 10. This document is contained in Dehner Document Book III, Pages 27 to 49. In this connection I would like to draw the attention of the Tribunal to the entry for the 28th of August 1943, Pages 29 to 30, in Document Book III. That is the entry:
"Commanding General leaves for Berlin to report to the Chief of Army Equipment and Commander of Army Replacement and Training."
Before this period -- August 1943 -- were you ever in the Balkans, and did you know the conditions there?
A. No, I was never in the Balkans previously, and I did not know the conditions there.
Q. What were the tasks of the LXIXth Reserve Corps?
A. In addition to the training of the reserve divisions to maintain peace, order, and security in the Corps territory, especially in connection with the vital Zagreb-Belgrade railway, and to combat the bands which appeared. (THE WITNESS POINTS TO THE WALL MAP DIRECTLY BEHIND THE WITNESS STAND): This is the railway line. Here is Zagreb, and there is a one-track railway south of the Save and another onetract railway line north of the Save. Then they join here at Novka. From here the railway continues with a double track via Brod (B-R-O-D), via Vinkovci (V-I-N-K-I-V-C-I). And from here it runs via Ruma to Indija and then Belgrade. From this main station the sub-railway stations go towards the south from here, and this main railway line continues through Serbia as far as Greece, as we heard a few days ago.
Q. To support these statements by General Dehner I would like to draw the attention of the Tribunal to the document which I have already presented as Dehner Exhibit No. 10, which is Dehner Document No. 16, in Dehner Document Book III, Page 33. It is the entry dated the 20th of September 1943. Here it states: "In accordance with Army Teletype No. 527/43 secret of 20 September 1943 --" It is Page 33, Your Honors, in Dehner Document Book III.
It has just been pointed out to me that it shows the 20th of September 1943, not 1947, as is stated in the English Document Book. Of course it is not possible for it to be 1947. It should be 1943.
"In accordance with Army Teletype No. 527/43 secret of 20 September 1943, Corps Headquarters is immediately entrusted henceforth with security of the main lines Zagreb-Belgrade, Indija-Neusatz and Vinkovci - Osijek. The units of the 173 and 187 Reserve Divisions are to be used actively for protection of the line if construction is seriously hampered."
I have submitted this excerpt as evidence to show that the LXIXth Corps did not have the entire executive power in Croatia, but that it had only these very limited tasks.
Q. General, to which tasks did you dedicate your main work?
A. To the larger and smaller tactical operations and the training.
Q. How large, approximately, was the extent of the Corps area?
A. The Corps area was bordered in the North by the then Northern frontier of Croatia along the Drave, as far as the Danube, and from there along the Danube as far as Belgrade. The Southern limit of the Corps area was the Save which ran approximately parallel to the river which I have just mentioned, and the Eastern frontier was near Belgrade. The West was bordered by a line from DubreseloVaristin; and in addition, later, this area was added. The frontiers were extended from time to time, a comparative stretch from Zagreb to Belgrade of 450 kilometers--that is about a stretch from here to Berlin, plus another 50 kilometers, and the width was about 50 to 80 kilometers-that is a distance from about here to Wuerzburg.
Q. Where were the Corps headquarters?
A. The Corps headquarters in September was in Brod, then in Bukovar until the 2nd of February, 1944, and then in Zagreb until the Corps left for Hungary on the 18th of March, 1944.
Q. Which troops were subordinate to you, General?
A. Subordinate to me were the 187th Reserve Division, then the 173rd Reserve Division which left in February 1944, then the 1st Cossack Division from the 5th of October until the 25th of November with two brigades, from the 25th November until the 20th of December with only one brigade. Then there were further subordinate to me but only for purposes of training the Light Infantry Reserve Regiment 1, towards the end the 367th Infantry Division which at the beginning was in the process of being set up.
Further during the course of the five months in which I was in the Balkans, there were some other divisions who were merely transferred there for the purpose of being freshened up.
Q. In this connection, I submit the memorandum of the prosecution in which it states on page 74 of the German and Page 74 of the English that the 7th SS Division Prinz Eugen was also subordinate to you.
THE PRESIDENT: To what Document Book do you refer?
DR. GAWLIK: Your Honor, it isn't a Document Book; it is a memorandum which the prosecution has submitted a short time ago. In this, it is maintained-this was a new assertion which hadn't been produced before,--that the 7th SS Division Prinz Eugen was subordinate to the 69th Reserve Corps. The 69th Reserve Corps is therefore responsible for all the deeds committed by the SS Division.
THE PRESIDENT: What I am trying to ascertain is where can we find it? Is it in the law brief--or-
DR. GAWLIK: Yes, it is in the law brief, page 74 of the German and page 74 of the English.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. General, was the 7th SS Mountain Division ever subordinate to the 69th Reserve Corps?
A. No, never. I cannot understand at all how such an assertion could have been made by the prosecution. This assertion by the prosecution contradicts its own statements in the basic information where as far as I know there is a map according to which the 7th SS Mountain Division Prinz Eugen was subordinate to the headquarters of the 5th Mountain Corps. That is, to the Higher Flex.
Q. Where were the staff quarters of the division subordinate to you?
A. The staff quarters of the 187th Reserve Division were in September 1943 in Zagreb and then it was transferred to Brod, remained in Brod until the withdrawal in the middle of March, 1944. The staff headquarters of the 173rd Division were first of all in Bukovar in September 1943 and then was transferred to Ruma, remained there until the second of February, 1944, and on this date it left the Corps area. The 1st Cossack Division was unloaded here in this area in October--that is in the East, and then was transferred all through the Corps area from the East to the West and through this, of course, kept on changing its quarters and was finally settled down with its staff headquarters in Zagreb.
Q. Where were the divisions assigned, General?
A. The divisions were assigned as follows: I will go from the right to the left. The 173rd Reserve Division in the Eastern part approximately as far as this line--that is East of Brod. The 187th Reserve Division from here as far as approximately this district. The 367th Reserve Division near Zagreb Northeast and North of Zagreb. The Cossack Division when, when going from East to West had to carry out various tactical operations, finally received a sector on the railroad.
Q. What was the combat value of the subordinate units?
A. The Reserve Divisions had approximately a strength of about ten or twelve thousand men. That is a little less than the normal war strength of an active division and in comparison the Cossack Division was considerably stronger. That is about 22,000 to 25,000 men. The greater part of the men of the reserve divisions was completely trained and capable of fulfilling all demands which were made on them. The fact that a part of the NCO's and men of these reserve divisions were rather older was in comparison to the civilian population only a favorable fact, and meant in no way a weakening of their fighting value.
The 367th Infantry Division was an active infantry division with modern equipment.
Q. What was the equipment of the subordinate units?
A. The equipment of the troops was modern weapons and their supply was permanently assured.
Q. What was the compilation of your Corps staff?
A. The Corps staff was as regards personnel weaker than that of an active Corps staff. The Chief of Staff and the Ia were older officers. In addition - apart from the Commanding General, all the officers in the staff were reserve officers.
Q. What were the tasks of the Corps staff?
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
A The Corps staff was primarily a tactical staff. It had to deal with all tactical operations and planning. Since I as Commanding General was not the supreme judicial authority, my Corps staff also was lacking in a judicial department.
Q Apart from the sphere of work of an active Corps staff in the war, did you have other tasks?
A Yes, there was the extensive sphere of work of training; in this respect I was subordinate to the Chief of Army Equipment.
Q And what were the results of this?
A The amount of work of the Corps staff was considerably greater than that of an active Corps staff. The Corps was continuously called in to undertake tactical operations and in addition it had to carry on training. This considerable amount of work with the rather small amount of personnel on the staff could only be done by calling in all the forces available and by working continuously day and night.
Q Witness, how great on an average was the distance between the Corps staff and the divisional headquarters?
A The approximate - the average distance-one can't talk about average distances because there were very great differences--was from 75 kilometers to 300 kilometers. When the Corps, for instance, was in Bukovar, the distance to the divisional staff of the 187th Reserve Division was 75 kilometers. When the Corps was in Zagreb, the distance to the divisional staff of the 173rd Reserve Division was 300 kilometers. That is a distance from about here to Cologne.
Q What were the communications like?
A Communications were unfortunately not very extensive and could not be relied upon very much. The telephone lines along the main railroad were frequently interrupted by sabotage acts of the partisans. There was no underground cable. The radio, as a result of the mountainous country, functioned badly, especially at night. The courier communications etc, with the railroad or with convoy was frequently Court No. V, Case No. VII.
interrupted by sabotage acts on the part of the partisans and sometimes was even made impossible.
Q How did you try to overcome these difficulties, General?
A I tried to get to the troops as often as possible. About half of the time I was on the Balkans I spent either with the troops or moving in order to get to the troops.
Q What were the departments of the staff?
A The staff had the operational department with the Ia, Ic, the 1st and 2nd ADC, the so-called quartermaster department with the quartermaster, with the 2nd ADC, the transport officer, the officer for weapons and equipment, then the adjutant's office with the IIa, the commandant of the staff quarters, the Corps superintendent's office to which the quartermaster's department was attached with the Corps superintendent, the IVa, the pay master, the Corps doctor with the Corps chemist, the Corps veterinary surgeon; but as I repeat there was no judicial department.
Q What were the tasks of these departments?
A The operational department had to deal with tactics and training. The quartermaster department dealt with supply. The personnel department dealt with appointments, promotion, decorations, etc. The Corps superintendent's office dealt with economic, clothing, and calculations, etc. The Corps doctor had to do with the medical welfare and the Corps veterinary surgeon had to look after the horses, shoeing of the horses, etc.
Q What was your activity in detail or, in other words, General, what did you do in particular as regards all these tasks?
A Mainly I was concerned with the direction and the supervision, the evaluation of all tactical operations, with the supervision and the inspection of the training of the troops, then as was usual numerous decisions had to be taken about and orders had to be issued and discussions and conferences which arose from the assignment of the troops and corresponding to the tasks they had to fulfill.
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
Q Would you describe to the Tribunal an average day?
A One cannot talk about an average working day, because as a result of the inspections and journeys which had to be taken almost continuously. I repeat, as a result of the inspection trips and all kinds of trips, every day was different. When I was absent when the reports accumulated, the reports about the fighting and all the other correspondence, which came in, in such cases then it was almost impossible for me to read every single report personally. The la, deputizing for the chief of staff, then went through all the reports, combat reports, etc., and reported them orally often in the presence of the Adc, who had all the various maps, etc. The preparation, the execution and evaluation of the smaller and larger operations were my main worries and in addition, of course, there was the reconnaissance of the terrain with the air corps or the convoy. The continuous discussions with commanders and then the detailing of the troops, they were of course reserve divisions, had to receive special attention. These activities took quite a lot of time and it was no wonder than in the time in between the various trips, the A.D.C., the Lc, the quartermaster, the doctor and the veterinarian surgeon were also trying to see me.
Q Who dealt with the incoming reports from the division?
A The incoming reports from the division were received by the A.D.C. He submitted them to the la and he then submitted them to the chief of staff.
Q What kind of reports came into the Corps?
A There were telephone reports, written reports, so-called teletype and radio reports.
Q And how were they dealt with?
A The written reports, that is the non-secret reports, were opened in the registry and were submitted to the chief of staff, who then marked them off for the people they concerned. The telephone reports and teletype reports were, as I said, submitted to the la by Court No. V, Case No. VII.
the OI, that is the A.D.C. and then to the chief of staff, who then usually reported orally to me and made a summary for me when I returned back to the staff after an absence.
Q Were these reports also submitted to you and read by you?
A This was only very rarely the case and in this case I always initialed them with a (D) and with the date.
Q Were all the teletypes and the daily reports submitted here all known to you formally?
A Many, many of these documents I saw here for the first time and particularly those documents which concern the period before and after my presence in the Balkans and which concern certain other areas than the Croatian area. I must admit that here for the first time, through the submission of the documents, I had a complete picture of the events in the area there, such as I had never had before.
Q Can you remember particularly the daily reports in detail?
AAmongst all the incidents which took place in that area, I most certainly cannot remember the daily reports in detail.
Q Were you informed about the fact that they came in?
A No, only about those which were important to the Commanding General.
Q General, how can it be seen whether a document was submitted to you?
AAs I have already said on principle, I initialled every document with the date and with my initial and the experts were told that every document not signed by me was to be given back to me so that I could do this.
Q And what does it mean if a document does not bear your initial?
A This means I did not see the document.
Q How and by whom were the out-going reports to the army drawn up?
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
A The la, supported by the A.D.C., drew them up on the basis of the reports which came in from the division, that is the morning reports and the daily reports, these so-called daily reports, which we called morning reports. Then these, since they had to go by teletype, radio or by Morse, were compiled very briefly, as briefly as possible as can be seen from the drafts and then these documents were submitted to the chief of staff. He took these documents and perhaps crossed out something or added something and then gave them to communications, who passed them on to the army. If any kind of a decision had to be taken before hand, then of course this task was carried out by me if I were there and important daily reports were submitted to me. Of course large and very important reports had to be sent up very briefly. The superior officers were always urging that they should be sent off in time and we were always in a very great hurry in order to pass the reports on in time, because there was sabotage threatening the whole time and the telephone lines could at any time be broken off for a short period or for a longer period.
Q In order to make it quite clear, General, were all the out-going reports submitted to you for information?
A No, there were reports which were not submitted to me. For instance when I was absent, when troop movements were underway or if reports were not terribly important, I did not have to know about them particularly.
Q What were the tasks for your chief of staff?
THE PRESIDENT: Pardon me, that will probably necessitate a long answer. We will take our morning recess at this time.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will be in recess until 1:30 o'clock.
(A recess was taken until 1330 hours.)
(Following recess)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. General, which were the tasks of your chief of staff?
A. As superior of the members of the staff, he had to look after the staff and to make sure that all work was carried out smoothly. He was the first advisor of the commanding general in military fields and when the commanding general was absent, he was his deputy in current matters and in urgent cases.
Q. What were the tasks of your la?
A. The la was the man who dealt with all tactical questions and with all questions of training.
Q. That were the tasks of your quartermaster department?
A. It was the task of this department to take care of the supplies.
Q. And what were the tasks of your lc?
A. The lc worked on enemy information and enemy situation news.
Q. To what extent did the departments of your staff work independently and to what extent were they supervised by you or your chief of staff?
A. The individual departments were independent in small unimportant matters. They could receive long distance calls independently and answer them if those telephone calls were of no particular importance. Important matters of course had to be referred back to the chief of staff. This had to be done before these matters were dealt with as well as for signature after they had been dealt with. I myself had no occasion nor the duty to supervise the individual departments. I relied on the chief of staff. Through regular channels within the staff it was achieved that the corps staff worked uniformly and information and directives were given in a uniform manner.
Q. Who was in charge of the war diary on your staff?
A. The war diary was kept by the A.D.C. of the operational department.
Q. I now show you from document book 16 of the prosecution on page 2 of the English text and page 4 of the German text, document N.O.K.W. 648 which is exhibit 574 of the prosecution. This is the war diary of your corps; what does your signature mean under the 30th of September, 1943?
A. That means that the war diary was on that day submitted to me, that I saw it, that I checked the note of the chief of staff, saying that he had read it, and that I had checked it, and that this war diary was correct up to the last day of the month. If possible and if the necessary time was available, it can also mean that I took one or the other spot checks.
Q. Who was responsible for examining and checking the war diary?
A. The chief of staff.
Q. Did you sign the war diary every month, General?
A. The documents submitted show me that this did not happen every month. I cannot give you any reasons why this was so. Possibly it was overlooked, it is also possible that I happened to be absent or that the man in charge had put a few communications aside in order to await the conclusion of certain operations, and so it might be that in the end it was altogether forgotten to submit it to me.
Q. What can you tell us generally about the incorrectness and in exactness of the entries in war diaries and in Daily reports?
A. It is possible that here and there in the daily reports, as well as in the entries in the war diary, errors occurred or that expressions were used which were not adequate and satisfactory. This is somewhat connected with the uncertainties and the whole character of a war even under entirely normal war conditions, but it is the case all the more so taking into consideration the uncertain conditions in the Balkans. These vast areas and then particularly the very few means of communication, the poor and inadequate radio connections, the lack of all cable communications, the frequent sabotage acts of the partisans, all these facts together may explain this fault. A further source of errors and unclear expressions was the brief formulation of communications and telegrams which could not be avoided.
This was often caused by constant interruptions.
The short time, which was available between the individual sabotage acts, had to be used immediately to send through a report quickly.
Q. Can you give us any more reasons for the incorrectness and unclearness of the entries in the war diaries and in the reports?
A. Yes, the staff consisted for the most part of reserve officers, older reserve officers. They were by no means on the same level as they had been at the beginning of the war. Their training had not been as good as that of the active officers. This applied particularly to the reserve division. The staff of the Corps consisted, with the exception of the commander, of reserve officers only. A problem child for us was also the Cossack division, in that respect there were constant inquiries, because of unclear and incomplete reports, which led to misunderstandings quite frequently, but these could be explained by bad translation from the Russian language into the German language. There was one constant complaint that the Cossack division did not have enough interpreters. Most members of the Cossack divisions were illiterate.
A further instance which frequently led to unclear reports was the overburdened radio channel which was only supposed to be used during tactical operations, however, on frequent occasions it had to be used because the telephone lines were disrupted. As I stated before they did not function in the mountain area and furthermore the instruments were old types. Then there is one further reason: the personnel of the Corps was over-worked. As I mentioned before the staff did not have enough personnel, and apart from its tactical tasks, it also had to do with the training questions.
Q. Were the events of the day always entered into the war diary immediately on the same day?
A. No, I believe I touched upon this earlier on quite frequently several days were dealt with together, as can be seen from the documents.
Q. That brings me to a different chapter. Could the units subordinated to you carry out operations independently?
A. Yes, the units subordinated to me could do this.
Q. Were you the solely responsible man in the corps area?
A. No, the main responsibility was borne primarily by the Croatian government which held and exercised executive powers and this government was the responsible agency for the ordering and carrying out of reprisal measures. I had the limited task to support the Croatian government in the maintenance of law, order and security.
Then there were other responsible agencies within the corps area such as the police. The administrative sub area headquarters in the normal course of events had nothing to do with the corps and within their own sector they were responsible to their own superior.
DR. GAWLIK: In this connection I would like to draw the attention of the Tribunal to a document submitted by me as Exhibit 10. It is Dehner Document No. 16 on page 29 in Dehner Document Book III. That is an excerpt from the war diary where, under the 25th of August 1943, it is stated that in Croatia the fight against the bandits is rendered more difficult by the fact that the corps is operating in a so-called friendly state.
Q. What was the situation you found, General, when you arrived in that country?
A. The situation was somewhat confused and confusing.
One needed a certain amount of time to find one's way around in this chaos. Croatia was an independent sovereign state which was being built up at that time and likewise the Croatian armed forces, 3 corps strong, were about to be built up.
Concerning the band situation, there were numerous small partisan groups or band groups which, for the most part, appeared as house partisans in the district north and south of the Save district in small villages. The partisans were mostly to be found in the mountainous area north or south of the railroad from Zagreb to Belgrade. They concentrated for the most part in the mountains which were inaccessible terrain. In these mountains here, in the Majevica Mountains, which was a difficult terrain, the bands congregated and then in small groups, mostly at night time, they tried to cross the Save in this district here where a certain strong point was of specific importance for the partisans.
(Indicating on a map) This was Jamina near the Save Holz and around there were inaccessible jungles and swamps and the partisans then moved over to this district near the Pozega and from here they frequently in individual groups invaded the Di Mountains north of Brod. From there they would move over the Babuk Mountains with the band infested area Pozega, P o z e g a ; then they crossed the area of the Moslavacka, M o s l a v a c k a, and there they reached the mountains, the so-called Kalnik Mountains, K a l n i k Mountains. From there again they would move over to the area of the neighboring corps as we have already heard, which was General Leyser's area. There were the Kozara Mountains and the Samarica and this the circle of the band movement, either way around. (Indicating on a map)
Q. What types of partisans were there in the corps area?
A. There were Tito's followers. They were the Communist partisans and then there were very few so-called Cetnik followers. They were Mihajlovic followers and we have already heard of them. They were the so-called National Serbs. The Cetniks themselves hardly appeared in the corps area at all.
Q. What was Tito's attitude toward the exiled government in London which had been recognized by the Allies?
A. Tito was in opposition to this government.
Q. How do you know? Where do you derive this knowledge?
A. I gathered this from official reports and from Ic reports.
Q. What was the relation between Tito and the Cetniks?
A. There was a hostile attitude but, as I have already mentioned, in the corps area the latter hardly appeared at all.
Q. Which was the group with which the corps had to deal particularly and which was the group which was the actual enemy of Germany?
A. Those were the Tito followers.
DR. GAWLIK: As proof for the fact that these Tito followers were not only the enemy of Germany but also the enemy of the Croatian population, I have chosen Document No. 16 which has been submitted as Dehner Exhibit 10 and in this connection I would like to direct the Tribunal's attention to Document Book III, to page 28 of this document book.
In particular I would like to concern myself with the entry of the 25th of August 1943. It says there:
"For the first time a report has come in according to which residents have repelled Communist bandits 16 and 17 kilometers off Pozega."
This same applies to the entry on page 29 of this document book under the date of the 28th of August 1943.
"187th Reserve Division reports a large number of attacks which clearly indicate that the bandits are systematically preparing for some large scale operations. They are organizing raids on motor trucks in order to motorize part of their formations and besides remove large quantities of grain; cattle, fodder and food after raids on farms."
I would further like to direct the attention of the Tribunal to page 35 of this same document book where we find an entry of the 26th of September 1943 where it is stated that:
"It looks as if the criminal elements are beginning now without having any direct connection with the bands to plunder and rob on their own responsibility. Among other things, numerous cases of plunder and levying of war contributions in the country carried out by the individual armed bandits were consequently reported by the rural police headquarters from the Vukovar area.