DR. HOFFMAN: I have no further questions.
BY DR. STEIN (for Defendant Eirenschmalz) Q Witness, this morning you testified that frequently Dr. Kammler was in the camp?
A Yes.
Q Do you know that Dr. Kammler was in charge of special purpose tasks?
A Yes.
Q Special tasks in reference to the Camp Dora, as the effect of the big weapons. The visit of Dr. Kammler, did it mean in the camp he came there so that Dr. Kammler could be convinced on the production of the weapons, or did he want to inspect the construction there?
A Kammler came to inspect on all the matters, that is construction projects, and increase of production, the industrial production of armaments, and Kammler also concerned himself with the housings and the general condition of life for the prisoners.
Q Do I understand you correctly if you say that these construction projects, we could understand the construction of new buildings?
A Yes.
Q And not perhaps the condition of the earlier existing buildings?
A Yes, the first question is correct, yes.
Q Did Dr. Kammler come alone or was he in company with his colleagues, of his committees?
A Kammler mostly came with a small staff.
Q Were they always the same gentlemen?
A As far as I know, yes.
Q Can you identify on the dock one of the defendants who came with Kammler to Dora, together with Kammler?
A No, no Q You further testified that with reference to the sanitary arrangements the conditions were very bad ones?
A Yes.
Q I ask you now, to change these conditions, did you care about that so that you reported to any worthy authority that these had to be changed, these circumstances, and what happened?
A The improvements which I succeeded in doing in the camp I did, exceptionally by evading my authorities.
'xcO)/x (To register profanity)
Q. And for the reason?
A. Because I was forced to act in this way, because of my opinion as to the necessities of these improvements, as I already said before.
Q. I turn to the management of the camp.
A. I applied to the directors of these factories who gave money in a far-reaching manner, by the help of which I bought drugs and so on. Where there had been 300 beds, they were increased to a thousand six hundred. I hoped that by the help of the management of the plant, to further construction of the housing in the camp, it would be carried through and made these improvements by excluding my direct superiors, since these improvements were necessary.
Q. Witness, who was in charge, and what size was this camp from the beginning? Do you know that?
A. Originally not more than ten thousand inmates.
Q. Do you want to say also that for those ten thousand the existing construction and installations were not sufficient?
A. When the construction was developing further on in the summer it was between ten thousand inmates.
Q. Would that be sufficient housing?
A. I would not call it sufficient, but it might have been possible but by the influx of other inmates these new installations were rendered insufficient.
Q. For this purpose did you have a special building management in the camp itself, where you could refer?
A. There was in the place a so-called SS Fuehrungstab. This staff was in charge of this construction, but firstly there was the tunnel building, and secondly the building of barracks for the whole layout of the camp.
Q. You would like to say that the SS was solely responsible for this construction?
A. I cannot answer this question by saying yes or no, for the reason this staff only worked out plans or put them in operation, which went direct to Bobermin.
Q. Then you saw the insufficiencies did you report them to the staff?
A. Yes.
Q. What action did the staff take?
A. This staff had a discussion and pointed out the difficulties which we were coming to in the execution of this work in the camp, as it was always stressed again and again that firstly the construction projects were in the first line.
Q. Was this difficulty also in the lack of material?
A. Materials were sufficient and I, myself, I saw things there which ordinarily you could not find in the Reich any more, which I explained the construction project in the Reich itself was so very necessary as far as the Reich was concerned.
Q. Who was in charge of this administration of material?
A. The administration of this material was in charge of several private firms which were there put to work.
Q. And these private firms, did you support them by your own means, as you said before, when you went with your difficulties to the staff?
A. No, these firms, but there was a management of the Mittelwerk.
DR. STEIN: I have no further questions.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY DR. RATZ:
Q. Witness, you testified before that the gold from the teeth of deceased prisoners was sent to the Office D-III. I would like to ask you, is that an assumption of yours or can you say of a certainty?
A. I already testified that it was an assumption of mine.
Q. On what do you base this assumption?
A. Because the direction, on dental treatment, of all things concerned with the dentistry, came from there.
Q. I would like to show you a document which was submitted yesterday. Affidavit of Barnewald, the administration leader of Buchenwald, page 106 in the German document book. (Document 2149) You talked about the gold removed from the prisoners and said that gold from the prisoners was given back to me monthly by the dentist and I sent it every six months to Burger to D-IV. The first order which I received was concerning the treatment of these gold, came from D-IV, at that time from Hanschel, in 1940 or 1941.
I should like to ask whether your assumption may be perhaps an error.
A. I did say that was an assumption and that this declaration might be correct.
Q. A further question: You know the Defendant Hermann Pook personally. Is it correct that the Defendant Pook was once in Nordhausen, to got proper accommodations for the dentistry station?
A. I cannot personally remember that I saw Pook in Nordhausen.
DR. RATZ: Thank you.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. In direct examination you testified that Dora was a plant of the Mittelwerke, Limited, is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Further, you mentioned the directors.
A. Yes.
Q. Who were they?
A. Firstly there was economic director, Bertsch.
Q. Did he belong to the WVHA?
A. No.
Q. Do you know who was in charge of the shares of the Mittelwerke?
A. No.
Q. If I tell you that they belonged to the Chef H. Rust, former Reichminister Speer, can you then tell us about it?
A. No.
Q. Is it correct that this Mittelwerke, Limited, was a private enterprise which had nothing to do with the WVHA?
A. That is correct.
Q. Is it then correct to say that you, if you look at the chart-
A. Can I have a look at it, please?
(The witness left the stand and walked up close to the chart on the wall.)
Q. -- That Mittelwerke, Limited, were in no connection with the Amts Gruppe W -- that is the last number?
A. Yes, I can see that.
DR. GAWLIK: No further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Is there any further cross-examination by any of the Counsel.
(There was none.)
Apparently not. Is there any redirect?
MR. McHANEY: I have one or two short questions, if the Tribunal please.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. McHANEY:
Q. Witness, you said you complained quite often about food and clothing for the prisoners. Did there come a time that Burger of Amt IV came to Dora?
a. Yes, he talked to me.
Q. And did he tell you to stop complaining about the food and clothing conditions in Dora, because Tschentscher and Pohl stated there would be no additional food and clothing for Dora?
A. Yes, that is correct.
THE PRESIDENT: If there are no further questions, the witness may be removed.
(Witness excused.)
MR. HART: May it please the Tribunal, I offer a series of documents, contained in Prosecutions Document Book 5. At page 1 of the Document Book, I offer Document NO-1259. This is a Lieberhenschel circular letter to the concentration camp commanders, concerning reports.
The letter concerns reports to be made on the arrivals or transfers of Soviet Russian prisoners of war, and reports in the cases of their death. It is stated these reports only concern prisoners of war behind barbed wire in camps for protective custody; that the reports do not concern Soviet Russian prisoners of war who were to be brought to other SS Prisoner of War Labor Camps then being set up. Exhibit number one hundred -
SECRETARY-GENERAL: One hundred eighteen was the first one.
MR. HART: Excuse me, that is Exhibit No. 118. Do your Honors have document NO-391?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
MR. HART: That page three of the document book I offer as document NO-391, as Exhibit No. 119. I should like to read that document. It is a letter from Muller, the Chief of Security police, dated November 9, 1941.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: What page is that on?
MR. HART: It is on page 3 in the first book, your Honor. There was a document 391 which is not the correct document. When I asked your Honors if you had it, I referred to a new document which is to be distributed to Defense Counsel. I will withdraw the offering of this document at the present time because I see that your Honors do not have a correct copy of it.
THE PRESIDENT: The document which we have is a letter from Dr. Lammers.
MR HART: Yes; that is not correct. I withdraw the offer of document NO-391 at this time. May I reserve Exhibit No. 119 for that document, later on?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
MR. HART: At page 8 of the document book -
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a moment. (Delay because of excess moise over earphones) Mr. Hart, if you will attempt to raise your voice a little bit, we may be able to hear you without the earphones.
MR. HART: At page 8 of the document book, I offer document NO-2138 as Exhibit 120. This is an order of the Security Police regarding the screening of Russian prisoners of war so that those dangerous to the armament industry would not be allocated to use as laborers in the armament industry. I should like to read the last paragraph. It is stated that, "The Political troop commissars and political commissars are to be transferred to the Mauthausen concentration camp. The inspector of the concentration camps has been informed accordingly."
At page 11 of the document book I offer Document No. 2318, as Exhibit No. 121. This is a letter from the defendant Pohl to -- It is a circular letter distributed to Amtsgruppen A, B. C. D. and W-- to all offices of the SS Economic and Administrative Branches, and to all branch offices. I should like to read it. "For actual reasons, I herewith order that every leader of a branch office of the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office who is provided with prisoners or prisoners of war for the execution of work is jointly responsible for the prevention of escape, robbery and acts of sabotage..."
At page 13 of the document book I offer Document NO-1246 as Exhibit No. 122. This is a Liebehenschel directive concerning the making of simple reports in the case of the death of Russian prisoners of War, Jews, and others. I should like to reserve Exhibit No. 123 for the later offering of document No. 299-PS.
At page 17 of the document book I offer Exhibit No. NO-1932. -I should have said Document No. 1932, as Exhibit No. 124. This is a report of the Twelfth Army Group and also the First Army concerning conditions in the Sachsenhausen Concentration Camp, and the execution there of 80 American and British flyers, and some 26,000 Russian prisoners of war. In the copy of that document which I have, your Honors, on the first page it is stated that this is an "Unofficial Copy." That copy I have is apparently a Press copy but the one before the Court in the document book does not contain that statement.
At page 41 of the document book I offer document 2104 as Exhibit No. 124. This is submitted to show a list of prisoners transferred to Wewelsburg. At page 42 of the document book I offer document NO-1945 as Exhibit No. 126. This exhibit consists of various correspondence and communications concerning the transfer of concentration camp prisoners from one camp to another.
At page 55 -
THE PRESIDENT: Forty-eight is the next document.
MR. HART: Yes. At page 50 of the document book I offer document No. NO-1017.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Hart, you have skipped -
MR. HART: Yes, I did so purposefully because they are almost identical. I am not offering NO-1505. This exhibit concerns the transfer of Russian civilians in terms of numbers.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: That was 127.-
MR. HART: I beg your pardon?
JUDGE PHILLIPS: Exhibit 127?
MR. HART: That is 127: thank you, your Honor. At page 52 of the document book I offer document No. 3677 as Exhibit No. 128. This is a letter from the Chief of Office D-11 to concentration camp commanders. It reads: "The Reichsfuehrer-SS wishes all concentration camps situated within the Reich territory to be cleared of Jews. All Jews within these concentration camps are therefore to be transferred to Auschwitz or Lublin."
"Please report the number of the Jewish inmates in those concentration camps to me by the 9th of this month and state in particular if any of these prisoners are being employed in assignments not permitting an immediate transfer."
"Signed Maurer, The Chief of Office D-II."
At page 53 of Document Book I offer Document No. NO-1935 as Exhibit No. 129. This is a letter from Maurer the Chief of D-II to the commander of Buchenwald Concentration Camp, relaying a teletype message from the Commander of Auschwitz Concentration Camp, which I should like to read:
"From among the prisoners shipped from Buchenwald 18 died by 4 December, 1942. 3 more prisoners are in the prisoners' infirmary because of various ailments. 22 out of the 129 remaining are physically feeble, 3 are foot sore with inflammations and swellings, 1 has lost his left arm, 1 has a deformed wrist, 3 have chilblains on their fingers. From among the prisoners shipped 100 are fit for work - 2/3. 2 per cent are really skilled building workers. Your comment is invited."
At page 54 of the Document Book I offer document No. 2100 as Prosecutions Exhibit No. 130. This I believe to be an answer to the complaint raised by the Auschwitz camp command in the document which I have just read. Exhibit No. 130 refers to a total of 163 prisoners, whereas Exhibit No. 129 refers to a total of 150. Other exhibits to be presented by the Prosecution will show that in cases of such transports it was customary to send more prisoners than had been ordered in order to make allowances for those who would die or become disabled during the transportation. I should like to read the last paragraph of the letter which constitutes Exhibit No. 130:
"The transport from CC Buchenwald to the CC Auschwitz takes three or four days. It is unavoidable that prisoners should fall ill during this transport, especially in view of the anyhow not very strong constitution of Russian civilian workers, who represented the bulk of the shipment. According to orders by the Commander of the Buchenwald Concentration Camp, SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Pister, only fit and healthy prisoners are to be transferred to other camps. This order is strictly adhered to by the camp physicians."
At page 56 of the Document Book I offer Document No. 1938 as Prosecution Exhibit No. 131. This is a telegram to the concentration camp Buchenwald from Paris referring to a transport of 1,000 prisoners from camp Compiegne in France to Buchenwald.
These prisoners are re*****************************."
At page 57 of the Document Book I offer Document NO-1937, as Prosecution Exhibit No. 132. This is a telegram from Auschwitz to Buchenwald regarding the transfer of inmates pursuant to orders from WVHA.
Documents Nos. NO-1551 and NO- 1558 have been offered in Book IV. They are not re-offered here.
At page 60 of the Document Book I offer Document No. NO-1561, as Prosecution Exhibit No. 133. This is a Maurer letter concerning the treatment of Nacht und Nebel Inmates - prisoners at Camp Natzweiler.
At page 62 of the Document Book I offer Document No. NO-2109, as Prosecution Exhibit No. 134. These are telegrams from the allocation officer in Buchenwald to Amtsgruppe-D regarding the transport of female prisoners.
At page 63 of the Document Book I offer Document No. 508 as Prosecution Exhibit No. 135. This is an affidavit of Gerhard Schiedlausky, who was a physician at the Mauthausen concentration camp. He was referred to in court this morning by the witness Dr. Kahr, in describing the condition in Mauthausen, Ravensbrueck and Natzweiler.
At page 86 of the Document Book I offer Document No. NO-1581, as Prosecution Exhibit No. 136. This is an affidavit by Georg Rammler, who was formerly employed by the Economic Administrative Main Office in Berlin, and who describes the condition in the concentration camp.
At page 90 of the Document Book I offer Document No. NO-1544, which is a letter from the defendant Pohl to the concentration camp commanders urging them to make loafing prisoners work.
At page 91 of the Document Book - - - I withdraw that. At page 96 of the Document Book I offer Document No. 2189-PS as Prosecution Exhibit No. 138.
I believe I neglected to say that Document NO-1544 should be Prosecution Exhibit No. 137.
Prosecution Exhibit No. 138 is a letter from the chief of the Amtsgruppe-D to the concentration camp commandant regarding the Pohl order of prisoners for beating.
DR. SEIDL: Dr. Seidl for the defendant Pohl. May it please the Tribunal, the document which the Prosecutor just wanted to submit is not in the document book given to us. Therefore, I should like to ask the Prosecution that this document be submitted later and at a time when a copy has been put at the disposal of the defense counsel.
THE PRESIDENT: It is time for adjournment.
THE MARSHAL: This Tribunal is in recess until 1330 this afternoon.
( The Tribunal recessed until 1330 hours, 10 April)
AFTERNOON SESSION.
( The hearing reconvened at 1300 hours, 10 April 1947.
THE MARSHAL: All persons in the court please take your seats.
Tribunal No. 2 is again in session.
MR. HART: As I understand Your Honor's ruling at the last hour Prosecution's Exhibit 138 had been admitted, subject to the right of Dr. Seidl or other, defense counsel to raise objections when they are supplied with the German copy.
THE PRESIDENT: That is correct.
MR. HART: Page 103 of the Document Book -- I offer Document No. 3678-PS as Exhibit No. 139.
THE PRESIDENT: What is Document No-2187?
MR HART: That is not offer at this time, if Your Honor please. Exhibit 138 orders and reports concerning Naval prisoners and the corporal punishment of prisoners. At page 110 of the Document Book, I offer Document No. NO-1556 as Exhibit No. 140. This is a letter from Maurer directing that prisoners guilty of acts sabotage be hanged and that the hanging be brought to attention prominently of members of the work gang to which the prisoners in question belonged. At page 111 of the Document No, -256 as Exhibit 141 DR, SEIDL (Attorney for Defendant Oswald Pohl): I would like to suggest, now your Honor -- I would like to request that document no.
NO-256, which is the affidavit of Pister, be admitted with one reservation that, according to the ruling of the Tribunal, that this witness be also braought before this Tribunal for cross-examination.
THE PRESIDENT: The ruling heretofore made by the Tribunal will apply also to this affidavit MR, HART:
At page 117 of the Document Book, I offer Document No. No-2166.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: When you referred to Page 111, Exhibit 141, did you finish with that?
MR HART: Excuse me, Your Honor, that is the affidavit of Hermann Pister, a former commandant of Mauthausen concentration Camp.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Could you gave us a little bit more, a sentence or two of what it talks about?
MR. HART: This affidavit specifically concerns the penalties, particularly the death penalties, of prisoners in concentration camps, It states that for the most part that was in the jurisdiction of the camp commanders and also itemizes the different types of punishment, the plain arrest, medium arrest, and the severe arrest, outlining the different methods of punishment. At page 117 of the Document Book I offer Document No-2166 as Exhibit No, 142. This is a letter of the inspectors of concentration camps to camp commanders concerning labor allocation. I wish to point out that this is dated in February, 1942, and refers to an order of the Main Office, Budget and Buildings in 1940 concerning for the wages of prisoners. With reference to such accountings, the 1 last two lines of the letter state, "The clearing has to be applied for at the SS Economic and Administrative Office."
Court No. 11 - Case No. 4 At page 122 of the Document Book, referring to document number 2146 -- Do Your honors have a copy of the document following the description in the index?
In the original document book there was some mistake made so that the original document put in the book was the wrong document, but I how have the correct document here, and I understand that Defense Counsel have received correct copies.
THE PRESIDENT: The document which appears in our document books is an unsigned letter dated 18 February 1942 to a person named Huetting.
MR. HART: That is the wrong document, Your Honor. I have the correct document hero. May I submit it to Your Honors now?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, please.
MR. HART: I understand that Defense Counsel -- I have not been correctly informed , Your Honors. The Defense Counsels do not have a copy of that document. Shall I submit it in evidence now, subject to the same arrangement as in the case of the -
THE PRESIDENT: They do have it.
DR. SEIDL: Your Honors, in this document book there is another document 2146. This is a letter of the Administrative Office of the concentration camp Auschwitz of 25 March 1942.
THE PRESIDENT: All right. They already have it.
MR. HART: I then offer Document 2146 as Exhibit Number 145. This is a letter from the Chief of the Administration of the concentration camp Auschwitz to Amtsgruppe D-4 concerning the provision of food for concentration camp prisoners at Auschwitz. The writer of the letter states that there are 27,000 prisoners to be fed and that, considering the large number of prisoners and the primitive Court No. II - Case No. 4 kitchen installations at Auschwitz, it will be necessary to make provision for the feeding of these prisoners otherwise than the previsions then at hand.
At page 123 of the document book I offer document number 2132-NO as Exhibit 144. This is a decree by the Reich Minister of Food ordering a reduction in the feed rations to concentration camp prisoners.
At page 125 of the document book -- I withdraw that, if Your Honors please.
At page 127 of the document book I offer document number 311-PS as Exhibit 143. This is a memorandum by the Bavarian State Food Office concerning a reduction in the food rations for prisoners of war.
At page 129 of the document book I offer document number 1201 as Exhibit 146. This is an affidavit of Max Pauly, the former commander of the concentration camp Neuengamme, concerning particularly rations to concentration camps, living conditions, heat and clothing, the provisions for medical care, and the channels through which orders were received for executions of prisoners. Sometimes this was through the RSHA, and sometimes the orders came entirely from Amtsgruppe D.
At page 135 of the document book I offer document number 2428-PS, as Exhibit 147. This is the sworn testimony of a Dr. Mis, M-I-S, a former concentration camp inmate, who was a doctor -- is a doctor, concerning -
DR. SEIDL: Your Honor, the document which has just been submitted by the Prosecution is not in our document book. Therefore, I would appreciate it if this exhibit would be accepted only for the time being, reserving to ourselves the right to come back to it some time later.
Court No. II - Case No. 4
THE PRESIDENT: It will be admitted only if the defendants are furnished with a copy in German.
MR. HART: That, then, is Prosecution Exhibit 147, subject to His Honor's ruling.
At page 143 of the document book I offer document number 1530 as Exhibit Number 148.
DR. HAENSEL (For the defendant Loerner): Your Honors, with reference to this document I would like to make a remark. This is a letter addressed to various and different camp commanders without the usual incoming stamp, but with the remark, "By registered mail". The document contains on page 2 an empty space. I am of the impression that this is just a draft of a letter and that it was not sent off that way.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Do these dots disturb you?
DR. HAENSEL: Yes, it is a case in point.
THE PRESIDENT: Can I see the document, please?
Under the certificate which accompanies the exhibit and which indicates the source of the exhibit, it is admissible. Who signed this document? It does not appear in the document book who signed it.
MR. HART: I think, if Your Honor will notice, the original is signed. The signature is Liebehentschel.
This document NO-1530 I offer as Exhibit 148. It consists of two letters. The first is a Liebehentschel letter to the camp commanders concerning the supply of clothing for concentration camp inmates. I should like to read the last paragraph of the letter:
"As the Office B II of the Economic and Administrative Main Office informs us, approximately --" That is an abbreviation "appr" as it appears in my copy. "--appr ---sets/coats were already delivered to the camp there.
Court No. II - Case No. 4 The receipt of further sets is to be reported here, also the stock of civilian clothing already on hand, by the 1st of every month."
The second letter is also from Liebehentschel to the camp commanders. Both of those letter are dated an February of 1943. Copies of the letters were sent to Offices II and III of Amtsgruppe D. The second letter reads:
"With the consent of the Chief of Office Group B it is ordered that clothing belonging to Polish and Russian prisoners in concentration carps will be used as prisoners' working clothing where the prisoners' clothing provided by the cap is not sufficient.
"After thorough disinfection this civilian clothing will be specially marked by colored signs and prisoners badges as laid down in the camp rules."
At page 145 of the document book, I offer document Number 1166-PS. If Your Honors please, I should like to offer this document in replacement of Prosecution Exhibit No. 113. Both documents refer to the same subject matter, but the one I now offer is mere -
JUDGE SPEIGHT: You want to strike out the former 113 and just make this one 113?
MR. HART: Yes, if Your Honors please, 113 is to be found on page 108 of the Document Book IV.
At page 149.
JUDGE SPEIGHT: Just a moment, before you leave 145. Where is this report from as to the number of prisoners on hand on January 8 1944. Where are these prisoners located?
MR. HART: I take it, Your Honor, that the report speaks of prisoners generally in all the camps.
Court No. II - Case No. 4
JUDGE SPEIGHT: All right.
MR. HART: At page 149 of the document book I offer document number NO-2341 as Exhibit number 149.
DR. SEIDL: I raise an objection to the admission of this document NO 2341. From the context of this document it can be soon that this was drawn up within the general framework. The photostatic copy of the original shows that it has at least 29 signors, and the context of the two sentences which are mentioned in here also shows that these things are drawn entirely out of the entire context. The document, furthermore, is not signed, but shows only a typewritten signature. Therefore, I make application to admit the document only if the Prosecution shows not only the photostatic copy but the original of the document.
THE PRESIDENT: Does the Prosecution have this entire document?
MR. HART: If Your Honors please, I should like to withdraw that at this time.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
MR. HART: At page 150 of the document book, the document first entered in the document book is different from the description in the index in the English document book. I understand that the German copies in the books delivered to the Defense Counsel are correct copies. I should like now to submit the correct copies to the Tribunal.
DR. SEIDL: We Defense Counsel unfortunately also have only one part of the document, the document NO 1235. It says, "with reference to the ordinances drawn up above, we send you this for immediate knowledge and to expedite matter." In this document book there is no such ordinance, and it is quite obvious that the document as suck is not clear.