MR. ROBBINS: I might say that the document which I have in my book is signed, and it is initialed "Th," which stands for "Thierach" who was Minister of Justice at the time, and who succeeded Schegelberger in that position.
DR. SEIDL: In the copy which I have "Th" is missing. However, I can recall that at a previous occasion, I have seen the document, and it is possible that the "Th" stands for "Thierach". But I can not make any statement to that effect of my own knowledge, nor does the witness know anything about the whole matter.
BY DR. SEIDL:
Q I shall now proceed to Document No. 1063-D-PS, in Document Book 12 on page 33 of the German and page 47 of the English Document Books. This document introduced as Prosecution Exhibit No. 340 by the Prosecution. This is a letter from the Chief of the Security Police and the SD to the Security Police Offices on 17 December 1942, and according to the distribution at the beginning of this document, it must be assumed that you have received knowledge of this. I ask you in what manner were you connect with that matter, and what did you do upon reading of this letter?
A I certainly received this letter at the time, because it was sent to me as an informational copy. I did not participate in the working out of this. And I do not recall having done anything in particular about that, because this was a State Police affair, which only had some sort of reference to me when the inmates had been sent to the concentration camp. Prior to that I had nothing to do with it.
Q Then I shall proceed to NO-2031 -- in Document Book 12, on page 55 of the English and page 41 of the German Document Books.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Dr. Seidl, may I interrupt you an instant, as I would like to ask a question of Mr. Robbins. Do you know where this exMinister of Justice is now, is he living?
MR. BOBBINS: No, Your Honor, he is dead. He committed suicide.
BY DR. SEIDL:
Q We shall now proceed to Document NO-2031, in Document Book 12, on page 55 of the English, and on page 41 of the German Document Books. It was introduced as Prosecution's Exhibit No. 341, and it is an order of Himmler, Reichsfuehrer-SS, dated 6 January 1943, with reference to a circular regarding partisan families. What can you say about these documents, and did you become in any connection within this matter?
AAs far as sending people to the concentration camps, that is, people of this circle mentioned here, we complied with this order. In some of the factories we had training workshops. However, I can not tell if children and adolescents were also trained there. I can not recall having seen any. However, I did not visit all the training workshops. I would like to draw the Tribunal's attention to another fact pertaining to this document. The Reichsfuehrer-SS himself makes it clear that also the chief of the concentration camps, and the chief of the concentration camp of WVHA -----
Q You will have to repeat the last sentence. I understand the translation did not come through.
A I said that in this document here I would like to draw the Tribunal's attention to the fact that the Reichsfuehrer-SS himself on the part of the Chief of WVHA, and the Inspectorate of the concentration camps which are particularly mentioned here, proves that Himmler on the basis of their field tasks differentiates between the two.
THE PRESIDENT: You told us yesterday that it was your belief that all the people who were sent into your concentration camps were sent there for violating some regulations. Do you remember that?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
Q Do you think these children that you were planning to bring up in confinement, and to Germanize, do you think they were sent because they violated some regulation?
A This deals with families of partisans in the case of persons who apparently dealt with partisan activity behind the front. I don't know the circumstances myself, because I don't know it from my own knowledge, and I only know them from this letter here.
Q Well, it dealt with people who just would not submit to German domination in their own countries, didn't it?
A Yes.
Q. It dealt with people who had the courage to resist the intrusion of the Germans into their own homeland?
A. Yes.
Q. Including children?
A. Yes. I can see that from this document. I do not know what the individual people, did, and according to which regulations they were prosecuted. I had no influence on sending these people out there, nor did I have any influence on their arrest, or the circle of people arrested.
Q. I know you knew nothing about anything, but do you now believe that these young children were guilty of breaking regulations and for that reason were thrown into concentration camps?
A. I do not know that. Probably the children were taken along because their parents were taken away.
Q. And the wives were taken along because their husband were taken along.
A. That quite possible.
Q. In other words, you were simply deporting whole families and villages.
A. Your Honor, I had nothing -
Q. I know, you know nothing about it.
A. I only know that about it which is here in this document. I did not participate in those things. I did not review any regulations about it, nor can I make any statement about it, other than what it says in the document. I didn't find out anything more about that myself. Children and women also participated in the partisan activities when they were fighting the German troops. That happened, the same way in all countries, and I believe the German women and children would have done the same thing.
Q. All you did was to receive them when somebody else sent them into the camps.
A. I had some sort of a contact with these people when they were in the concentration camps. Prior to that I didn't know anything. Myself, I didn't see these people in the concentration camps. I didn't see any juveniles in the concentration camps themselves, and after all I didn't see all the concentration camps.
Q. Well, it all comes down to this, somebody else captured than and you imprisoned them.
A. I did not imprison them. I couldn't prevent it, Your honor, that they were sent to concentration camps. I did not take one single measure, I did not issue one single order in order to send people to concentration camps.
Q. I know that; I know that. All you did Was to hang on to them after somebody else sent them.
A. I personally could not send them away. I did not stand at the gate and say, "You can go home," because I did not see them when they arrived. What am I to do? I was in Berlin. I didn't know any thing about it.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, well, what is the use.
BY JUDGE MUSSMANO:
Q. Witness, were you the Chief of the SS Main Economic and Administrative Office?
A. Yes.
Q. Well, I am a little perplexed to reconcile the statement in this letter with your statement that you knew nothing about this transaction. Now, Himmler specifically states in this very document, "The Chief of the SS Main Economic and Administrative Office, in agreement with the Chief of the Security Police and SD, suggests the establishment of collective Camps for children and adolescents in Lublin," which would indicate that you were the moving factor. Is that correct or not?
A. No.
Q. Then Himmler erred in that statement? He made a mistake when he stated that?
A. I did not suggest that.
Q. Well then, Himmler was wrong.
A. I did not suggest that. Then Himmler must have been wrong.
BY DR. SEIDL:
Q. I shall now proceed to Document NO-1523, Document Book 12, on page 56 of the English document book, and Page 43 of the German document book. This was introduced by the Prosecution as 343.
THE PRESIDENT: 342.
DR. SEIDL: 342, yes, your Honors, I am sorry.
Q. (By Dr. Seidl): It deals with the assignment of inmates in the armament industry. This is a circular letter of Amt-Chief D, of the 20th of January, 1943, signed by Gluecks, and I shall quote literally from this letter.
"The attached copy is sent for your information. As I have already pointed out, every means must be used to lower the death rate in the camp.
"Full utilization and tasty preparation of the rations at hand, as well as the increased reception of parcels make this perfectly possible.
"I hold the Camp Commandant and the Chief of the Camp Administration personally responsible of the prisoners. In connection with opinions on personnel qualifications to be given by me, I shall in future examine whether the responsible SS leaders have satisfactorily fulfilled their duty in this matter too." End quotation.
I ask you now, Witness, were the concentration camps run on the same line as you were pursuing as Chief of the Main Office in connection with your functions as leader of the labor assignment?
A. Yes.
Q. Then I shall proceed to Document NO-2141, Document Book No. 12, on page 59 of the English and 47 of the German document book. It was introduced as Prosecution Exhibit 344, and it is a letter of the Chief of the Security Police and the SD to the competent agencies of the Security Service, of the 30th of March, 1943, and refers to State Police measures against Russian prisoners of war.
I ask you now, witness, do you know anything about the contents of this letter, and was the inspector of the concentration Camps immediately advised as to that letter?
A. I couldn't tell that today exactly. According to the distribution it was sent to Amtsgruppe D, immediately.
Q. And the order apparently was made from there, the order to the concentration camp commandants; as results from the distributor, Amtsgruppe D was already given twenty copies at the same time, is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. The Prosecution introduced as Exhibit 346 a ordinance of the OKW of the 8th of July, 1943, which deals with labor for the coal mines. This is Document NO-1738, Document Book No. 12, on page 63 of the English. I ask you, witness, do you know anything about this OKW order?
A. I cannot recall exactly. However, it is possible that this decree came to me also. It is addressed to the Reichsfuehrer-SS and Chief of the German Police, it is possible that it was forwarded on.
Q. Then I shall proceed to Document NO-485, which is on page 70 of the English document book, No. 12, and on page 58 of the German document book. It was introduced by the Prosecution as Exhibit 347, and is a letter of the SS and police leader in Lublin to the personal staff of the Reichsfuehrer of the 21st of June, 1943. This letter deals with the seating up of work camps to utilize Jewish labor. Globocnik complains in this letter about the fact that orders are missing or are lacking due to lack of collaboration with the armament inspectorate. I ask you now, witness, what do you know about this matter, and what can you say about the letter itself on the basis of your own knowledge?
A. I know that Globocnik in Lublin and surroundings set up a number of labor camps and installations which he conducted as Monopol enterprises and which later on were incorporated into the Osti, O-s-t-i. I also heard that while taking care of these enterprises he had difficulties which resulted from the somewhat muddled armament conditions in the government in general. I have no further statements in reference to this letter.
Q. Then I shall proceed to document NO-1247 which is on page 88 of the English document book No. 12, and page 88 of the German also. This was introduced as Prosecution Exhibit 349. This is a letter of Office D-I to the Camp commandants on the 20th of August, 1943, and it deals with labor assignments for Jews in the occupied eastern territories. Did you participate in issuing this regulation which is contained in this document?
A. No, I did not participate in this decree.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Did you ever see it before; did you get a copy of it?
A. It is possible that I saw it. However, I couldn't recall exactly.
Q. Well, a copy was sent to the SS main Offices. Did that reach you?
A. It may be possible that I saw it, out generally speaking I have not very much to do, and nothing directly to do with the labor assignment in the eastern territories, because that was for the higher SS and police leader. I was only interrogated later on. However, it can be assumed that I saw it at the time. I am not quite sure about that.
Q. Then I shall proceed to a series of documents which are contained in Document Book No. 11 of the Prosecution. As Exhibit 350 the Prosecution introduced some correspondence which deals with the transfer of prisoners to the Reichsleiter Amann. This is Document NO-567, Document Book No. 13, and it is on page 1 of both the English and German copies.
I ask you, witness, what were the basic reasons for your opinion which can be seen from this document?
A. That, in itself, is a matter of no importance and has only been seized here because it deals with a small kommando. Generally speaking, kommandos of loss than a hundred were not to be set up.
Q. Then I shall proceed to Document NO-2164 in Document Book No. 13, on page 12 of the German and on page 13 of the English document book.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. In this Document 567 you seemed to have a more intimate relation with Maurer than you have indicated in your testimony. You have told us before this that Gluecks and Maurer operated independently of you; that you did not know what they were doing; and that you had no control over them -- or little control -- and that they were responsible to Himmler and to the Secret Police. Isn't that what you said?
A. Your Honor, I always only said that in questions of labor assignments -- that is the question here -- I collaborated with Gluecks and Maurer. That was the only reason why they had been subordinated to me, and that is only where we worked. That was a question of labor assignment.
Q. I see. And this letter No. 567 has to do with labor assignments so you did speak to Maurer about that?
A. Naturally.
BY DR. SEIDL:
Q. Witness, I understand your statements so far as to the effect that Maurer -- apart from Gluecks -- was the only man, generally speaking, with whom you had any direct connection speaking of Amtsrruppe D, and that because Gruppenfuehrer Maurer was in charge of Amtsrruppe D for labor assignment.
Is that correct?
A. Yes. Maurer was the chief of Amt D-2 which was competent for labor assignment.
Q. And that fact, as shown from this document, reveals that you had close connections with him?
A. Yes. He came to see me every Friday, together with Gluecks, and we discussed questions of labor assignment. Standartenfuehrer Maurer, that is.
Q. I shall proceed to Document NO-2164, Document Book No. 13, on page 13 of the English document book, and page 12 of the German.
In connection with this document I ask you, witness, what Clearing Fund are you talking about and what was the purpose of this Clearing Fund?
A. That was a fund within the German Economic Enterprises for damages which did not have to be insured. In other words, a fund for mutual assistance of the branches which were included in the German economic enterprises.
Q. Now I shall proceed to Document NO-19-5, Document Book No. 13, on page 16 of the German, on page 18 of the English document book. It was introduced as Prosecution exhibit 353, and it is a letter which you, yourself, wrote on the 15th of January 1944, to SS-Oberfuehrer Kranefuss; and which deals with the employment of inmates in the chemical industry.
I ask you now, witness, did you take any steps yourself in order to increase the number of inmates due to the increased activity of the chemical industry; and did you approach Himmler with that matter?
A. I took no steps whatsoever in this connection. I only sent those inmates to work who were at our disposal in the concentration camps.
Q. I come now to Document NO-067, Document Book No. 13, on page 21 of the English document book and on page 19 of the German document book. The Prosecution introduced this as Prosecution Exhibit 356.
It is a letter of Himmler's to you in which you are requested to contact Prof. Borsche for the manufacture of some sort of secret weapon.
I ask you now, witness, did you comply with that request? And what happened in the entire matter?
A. Prof. Borsche came to see me. The question was the housing of an engine factory. This housing was to be fixed in some place, in some sort of a tunnel near Longwy. And Borsche wanted to have concentration camp inmates for that industry. However, I believe that this was not put into execution because the installation of that plant could not be realized due to the military situation at that time -in 1944, that is.
Q. Prosecution introduced as Prosecution Exhibit 359 a letter of the 24th of May 1944 which you sent to the Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler dealing with fortifications and the construction of fortifications of the Central Russian Construction Group.
This is Document NO-1623, Document Book No, 13, on page 30 of the German and page 31 of the English document book.
I ask you witness, in connection with this document, did you, yourself, detail the assignment of those construction groups for the fortifications?
A. No. The construction groups in the East were under the economic expert, and their assignment was effective when the front retreated by incorporating them into similar formations. I believe that Front Laborers Formations were also out of there, and also a few other units, which partly were under the Army. I believe that the entire centralization of these forces was done by the commander of the rear and this construction group also belonged to them. I, myself, had nothing to do with this assignment.
Q. I shall then proceed to Document NO-2611 -BY JUDGE PHILLIPS:
Q. If you had nothing to do with this assignment, why did you write this letter and make this report?
A. Well, the construction group -- in other words, the SS Construction Group -- was part of the entire assignment group that belonged to the SS, and I already said that it belonged to the economic expert, and the economic export, in turn, was subordinated to the WVHA.
That is how the report went through the WVHA to Himmler.
Q. Well, you made the report yourself. You signed it, didn't you?
A. Yes, of course, I wrote the report. It is nothing but a special preparation of Amtsgruppe C in the WVHA.
Q. Well, you had supervision of that Amtsgruppe, didn't you?
A. All reports which went through the Amtsgruppen to Himmler had to he signed by me. This applies to this, too.
Q. So you had some authority over it or you wouldn't have had authority to sign the report?
A. Well, I just said that -- I have been saying that all the time: Amtsgruppen C, B, and C were subordinated to me directly.
Q. Well, I understood you to testify that you had nothing to do with it, and had no authority over it, and just denied it all.
A. I only learned about this assignment through that report, and that only insofar as SS units were participating in the assignment itself. In other words, who ordered the assignment, I don't know either because, I have said, at least I assumed at the time, that the commander -
Q. In other words, you just gave reports ever something that you had no authority ever knowing whether the information was correct or not -- you just signed the report and sent it in?
A. That is right.
BY DR. SEIDL:
Q. Exhibit No. NO-2611, Document Book 13, on page 87 of the English and on page 111 of the German. This was introduced as Exhibit 366 and is a letter concerning the assignment of the 5th and 6th SS Construction Brigade while building fortifications and supply installations. From this letter it can be seen that the report itself was made by Kammler.
I ask you, witness, who, generally speaking, ordered such an assignment?
A. Well, when construction brigades in the rear were used, then Himmler, together with the OKW discussed that with Jodl, and Himmler then issued the order for assignment. The assignment then took place under Kammler's leadership -- or under his collaborators. The report itself came from Kammler and went through me to Himmler.
Q. I shall proceed to Document 2144, Document Book No. 13, on page 88 of the English, and page 113 of the German document book. It was introduced as Prosecution Exhibit 368, and it is a letter of the Reichsfuehrer SS in his capacity as commander-in-chief of the Reserve and chief of the armament, to the Lieutenant-General Dr. Kammler, of the 6th of August 1944. In this letter it says, and I shall quote:
"1.) I confer upon you, with responsibility, the carrying through of all preparations for the utilization capacity of the V-2.
"2.) The utilization capacity has to be attained as quickly as possible.
"3.) You have every necessary authority.
"4.) You are subject, in this matter, only to my orders as well as to the orders of the Commander-in-Chief of the reserve and Chief of the Army Armament, SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Juettner.
"5.) I request a weekly report on what has been achieved."
I ask you now, witness, wasn't it a fact that prior to that Gruppenfuehrer Kammler, as chief of the Special staff, was responsible for important construction projects of this field, and what can be seen with reference to this letter and with reference to the competency of the office of which you were in charge? You, yourself, were not mentioned at all in this letter.
A. This document has an entirely different sense. It has nothing to do with the construction development of the "V" weapons, but it refers to an extension of this order, namely, the use of these "V" weapons at the front. It is actually the appointment of Kammler to the commanders of units which were being employed for the use of "V" weapons in the front line.
Q. Then I shall proceed to Document NI-638. It is on page 126 of the German document book and on page 96 of the English. It was introduced as Prosecution Exhibit 372, and discusses a Blitz letter of the Reich Minister for Armament and War Production to a number of agencies, and is dated 9 October 1944. The subject of this letter is "The request and the use of concentration camp inmates". This says here that there is a new regulation about requesting inmates. I ask you now, witness, what were the reasons for the change and how far did you participate in it yourself? You, yourself, received a copy of this letter of the Reichsminister for Armament and War Production, as can be seen from paragraph 6 of the distribution.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
A The suggestion for this new arrangement came from the Reichminister for Armament and War Production himself. With the procedure used so far, certain deficiencies resulted and we had found out that employers received labor one time through the Labor Office and the other time through concentration camps. It was established that from that moment on all requests for concentration inmates had to go through the Labor Office also, so that a double request by the employers could be detected by him and eliminated.
Q The last question, Witness, concerning the entire complex of labor assignments of the concentration camp inmates: The labor assignment of these inmates was the immediate reason for the organizational incorporation of the Inspectorate of Concentration Camps into the WVHA. The evidence in trials which took place, particularly in the trials before the International Military Tribunal have shown that the seizure of labor itself both in Germany and outside of Germany was first of all the task of the Office of Gauleiter Sauckel in his capacity as plenipotentiary General for Labor Assignment. I ask you now, Witness, did you at any time have any meeting with Sauckel in his capacity as Plenipotentiary General for Labor Assignment? Did you have any discussions which referred to the labor assignment of foreign laborers, or, did you at any time have negotiations with Sauckel with reference to the seizure of foreign laborers?
A I did not have one single official discussion with Sauckel, nor did I know that other agencies of the WVHA had discussions with Sauckel. I had no influence on the official procedure of Sauckel's agency, nor was I ever able to find out any happening in the course of which the labor that had been procured by Sauckel's agency had been transferred or turned over to concentration camps. In this connection, that is, with regard to the procurement of labor, there were no connections between myself and Sauckel. We only put those laborers to work who were in the concentration camps where they had been sent by the Gestapo and Secret State Police and all that happened here was a col Court No. II, Case No. 4.laboration with the Ministry of Armament and War Production with which the requests of the employers had been coordinated.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: In other words, you mean to say this, that you didn't have any conferences with Sauckel about the procurement of labor and that any labor that he procured and was subsequently sent to the concentration camp, then you allocated it to industry and other organizations, is that correct?
WITNESS: No, Your Honor, that is not the case. I did not have any contact with the labor that had been provided by Sauckel and the labor that went through Sauckel's agency to Germany was transferred to such camps with which neither I nor my agency had anything to do. I know of no case where Sauckel transferred labor to the concentration camps -- the labor that had come through his agency, nor do I know if there were any labor camps that were immediately under Sauckel's supervision, nor if the laborers were transferred to plants. I had nothing to do with Sauckel's agency, nor did I collaborate with him in any way.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: That is exactly what I said.
WITNESS: Yes, that is correct.
Q Then I shall come to questions which have connection with the SS industries. I am referring to Document Books 14 and 15, which have been introduced by the prosecution -
THE PRESIDENT: Let's start with a nice fresh book at quarter to two.
THE MARSHAL: This Tribunal is in recess until 1345.
(A recess was taken until 1345 hours.)
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1345 hours, 21 May, 1947.)
OSWALD POHL - Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) BY DR. SEIDL:
Q. Witness, I now come to the questions which are connected with the so-called SS industries. What considerations made the SS have its own economic enterprises?
A. The best way to understand this might be if I would divide up these economic enterprises into three groups. The first group originated in the concentration camps; the second group, those which originated outside the concentration camps and which were not connected with them; and the third group are those which were created while the armament drive was on; for the first group, special deliberations did not take place because it was a logical development from the workshops in the camps. The second group were decided on by certain deliberations on the part of Himmler which were in line with his reformist tendencies and ideas; and the third group developed equally logically from Himmler's efforts to have the armament increased where ever possible by taking over or activating enterprises. Actual considerations can be found only in the case of the second group which was part of Himmler's reformist efforts. What he meant by that was his intentions to carry out reforms after the war, in all spheres of life, that is within the SS, both in the way of life and in the field of food, clothing, and above all in dwellings culture.
Q. What were the first enterprises that were founded by the SS administration; who were its heads, and how were you connected yourself with these enterprises?
A. The first enterprises were those which developed from the workshop in concentration camps, and they were economic enterprises in Dachau; they were, above all, large carpenter shops and blacksmith shops, and a bakery and a butcher shop. These, roughly in 1939, were put under the supervision as economic enterprises. Their heads were SS leaders;
I myself, as long as these enterprises were not organized as legal commercial enterprises, its supervisory chief.
Q. From what funds were these first economic enterprises financed?
A. The very first funds of these economic enterprises in Dachau consisted, I should say, of credits of the Party. They were very small funds and they were required to get the thing started, and they were paid back fairly soon. From then onwards, banking funds were increased extensively by Reich funds which were put at their disposal.
Q. Will you give us a brief description of the economic enterprises of the SS after the time of the foundation of German Economic Enterprises Limited, the DWB?
A. Apart from the SS economic enterprises in Dachau, the DEST was created after 1938 and that was situated in Oranienburg, near Berlin. The foundation of that enterprise originated in an agreement between Himmler and Speer. Shortly before the war already, the idea developed to rebuild and extend Berlin. Speer had drawn up some colossal plans and for those plans enormous amounts of stone were required. Between Himmler and Speer, at that period, the plans developed which provided for the establishment of a huge stone quarry, that is, a brick work, near Oranienburg, near the Oranienburg concentration camp. That was in 1938. In the following year, 1939, the German Equipment Works Limited, DAW for short, was founded. That plant was to give the legal commercial pay basis to the Dachau SS enterprises, because the Dachau enterprises and also the workshops which originated, above all, in the Sachsenhausen Oranienburg concentration camp had reached an extent which exceeded by far the requirements for the production in those camps, and, therefore, it was necessary --- it was not possible rather to prevent -for that reason the economic enterprises legal basis had to be given, and so in 1939 the German Equipment Works was founded.
Both were in the following year, in 1940, coordinated as the first branches under a roof company, a holding company, and that was the German Economic Works, Ltd., the DWV.
Q. You say both were coordinated. By "both" you obviously meant Dest and the DAW?
A. Yes. The economic enterprises of the SS were taken into the DWA, and through the DAW joined the DWB. The old name was dropped after that.
Q. What were the intended tasks of the DWB and what position did you yourself take in that holding company?
A. The task of the DWB was to see to it that there was a uniform financial management among the branches which existed up to then, to take over and centrally administer these tasks as far as it was possible, to do statistical matters, taxes, checking, and uniform regulations concerning the appointing of managers and submanagers, mutual financial assistance by making contracts to new central agencies, to take care of auditing, and so forth.
Q. What was your own position within the DWB?
A. I was a trustee and a business manager in the DWB.
Q. How many enterprises did DWB control and administer at various periods?
A. The enterprises after 1940 grew to a larger extent, and in the end they consisted of about 30 or 40 separate enterprises, with the corresponding plants. Above all, Dest and DAW, which had their plant in almost all camps
Q. What were the means by which DWB and its branches under it were financed?
A. In the first years banking credits were used above all. Later on mainly Reich funds.
Q. When were the SS economic enterprises organized in an office group was done in March of 1942. The rations which were essential to be there were of a purely technical nature, and I organized it into an office group in order to be able to survey the various enterprises in the easiest and clearest possible manner, and I gave the housing a form which corresponded with our habits and customs in our own office.
Q. What was the legal position of the economic enterprises which were under the supervision of the WVHA?
A. The economic enterprises at first were given special tasks as special departments as so-called W offices, and finally, as I explained before, as Office Group W, which was their designation. But no official basis was given to this, whereas the other office groups A, B, C, and also D, all had their budget that did not exist for office Group W, and while members of Office Groups A to D received their salaries from the Reich, members of Office Group W received their wages and expenses and other items from the firms where they were in employment. Then members of Office Group W were not supplied with the official SS documents. They were simply given their professional designations. The trade register also did not list them as SS officers or with their SS service ranks, but only with their positions within the commercial firms. The entire mail for these enterprises did not go through the registry office of the WVHA, but it went directly to the groups of firms. The firms themselves immediately were dealt with there and the files and correspondence remained with the firms. Nor did the enterprises have the official Party emblem. In about 1938 or 1939 through the Reich Treasury of the Party stated that the enterprises were not Party property, and therefore would not be audited by its officials.