Q And why were you appointed Pohl's deputy as main office chief?
A The reason is simple. I was the next senior officer.
Q. As Pohl's permanent deputy in that capacity, did you have a special function, for instance, when Pohl was absent did you sit in his room and was it made quite clear that you were the man who replaced him?
A No, nothing was done in that sense. I had never sat in Pohl's room nor did I have any special function but as Pohl put it himself I was to look after the house while he was away.
Q Was Pohl, during the last year, and a half, when you deputized as main office chief, frequently absent?
A No, on the contrary; it happened very infrequently during that period of time.
Q Was he absent for long periods of time or only briefly?
A No, his absence usually lasted a day or two, not longer.
Q Were sometimes both of you absent, Pohl and yourself, and who was then deputy?
A That also happened. I recall two occasions. Then the next senior officer in the house would deputize.
Q Now, when Pohl was absent and you were there how was business done in the building, did the office group chiefs come to see you; did you issue orders; what was your authority?
A During these brief spells of absence of Pohl's nothing in the official routine changed at all. The office group chiefs did their duty in dependently. Business went on as it did before. Pohl's A.D.C. was present; he took long distance calls for instance, read the mail or rather kept it or forwarded it to Pohl and usually I didn't even notice that Pohl wasn't there. I only noticed it when I had to make small disciplinary decisions. I simply deputized for Pohl as the master of the house when he was absent.
Q Before Pohl left on these occasions did he give you any special orders; did you perhaps in this manner acquire official knowledge which otherwise you would not have acquired had you not deputized for him?
A No, in no way at all. When I deputized for Pohl, he himself said expressly that I need not bother about the other office groups; they were responsible to him direct and during his absence the same responsible officials were in charge.
Q Would you have had the special knowledge in order to take a hand in the affairs of office group C and D while he was absent?
A First of all I did not have the knowledge and secondly I would have had to be kept up to date for which it would have been necessary for me permanently to attend the conference between Pohl end the office group D but I never took part in these conferences which is the reason why deputizing for Pohl in these fields was not necessary.
Q Did perhaps something happen which might well happen in a large Government department that one hopes fervently that the highest chief will go away for a bit in order to be able to do a few things which one is interested in?
A Pohl's assistants would have probably barked up the wrong tree in that case for I would not have stood for that and I cannot remember to have signed anything in Pohl's absence on his behalf.
Q Did you send reports and sign them to Himmler in Pohl's absence?
A No, Pohl had written out an order forbidding it.
Q Did you ever report to Himmler personally?
AAs Pohl's representative.
Q Yes, as Pohl's representative.
A No.
Q Did you, when Pohl was away issue orders for concentration camp commandants?
A No, not at all.
Q Supposing an enquiry would reach you, what would have happened? An enquiry which would have made a decision necessary for the commandant.
A That enquiry would not have been addressed to Pohl but to Gluecks and Gluecks would have made it or waited until Pohl returned.
Q In the functions of Pohl's deputy did anything change when Frank left and you became the deputy of the main office chief?
A I did not have the deputizing for the Allgemeine SS nor did I have the Treasury's authority for the Reichsbank.
Q Did you take part in any ceremonies in Pohls' absence?
A No, I did not, probably for the reason that such celebrations did not take place on days when Pohl was away.
Q You mean they would have been deferred?
A No, but probably among that time big celebrations were no longer held.
Q After all it was the last period during the war?
A Yes.
Q To complete this part of the interrogation I shall now turn to another complex which has appeared in this trial as the Reinhardt action and in order that my question shall be understood I wish to state that I use this term only in order to enable the court and other members of this trial to know what drawer in their mind they have to open, because in the period of time in which I am speaking now no Reinhardt action existed for Georg Loerner, no action at all and certainly not one which was connected with the dead Gestapo chief Reinhardt Heydrich. Tell me, witness, did you have anything to do with second hand material at any time? By that I mean dealings with old iron, old clothes and such items?
A No, I never did that.
Q Is it now known to you that sort of second hand trade played an important part in the national economy after the first world war?
A Yes, I know that.
Q Is that an occupation which you like?
A. No, that field was regarded in commercial circles rather coldly.
Q But fate forced you to have some dealings in that part of trade. How did that come about? For instance in the middle of 1942?
A Yes, it all happened in 1942, the beginning or the middle. At that time the raw material shortages became extremely acute in that field. We made a report to Himmler for the first time. Himmler replied that he knew of course, about the shortages but that he was in a position to help. He told us that in Lublin he had a large collecting center of materials from the East which he had established which was under Globocnik, SS and Police leader at Lublin. And he told Globocnik to transfer certain raw materials to us.
Q You told us now that between Himmler and yourself there was Pohl, and that nobody would be allowed to interfere in that relationship.
A When I say we reported to Himmler, I mean of course that I sent the report and Pohl passed it on to Himmler; and in his reply again Himmler addressed himself to Pohl and not to me.
Q So, therefore, what you heard as Himmler's opinion you heard through Pohl?
A Yes.
Q What did Pohl tell you: what he had done with the agencies and what he had negotiated-
THE INTERPRETER: There is an awful noise, Your Honor, and I can't hear.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you suspend just a minute?
BY DR. HAENSEL:
Q I asked to describe to us what Pohl had told you about his negotiations with other agencies of Himmler about the materials.
A Pohl told me that on Himmler's order he had talked to Reichsminister Funk, and the latter he said was ready to let us have more raw materials in the textile field provided that we would submit to the Reich ministry of Economics the evaluation of these textiles as promised to us. Funk's agency had been informed and we only needed to start the negotiations.
Q Now, Globocnik's name had been mentioned?
A Yes.
Q Why is it that Himmler did not simply order Globocnik to send the second-hand materials direct to Funk or the Reich Ministry of Economics?
Why were you interpolated?
A Of course, there I believe that Globocnik would not have carried out the deliveries because it was his ambition to keep all the material in Lublin in order to have it used there. The second reason of Himmler was to use us so that through us we would be granted the increased raw material requested by the Reich Ministry of Economics which Globocnik, as SS police leader, would never have been granted.
Q How did you think that this second-hand material which you received in order to increase your contigents--where would they have been stored? Where would they have been space to store them?
A What I imagined at the time was that in Lublin, or that Lublin, itself would have a large warehouse for all second-hand material from the Occupied Easter Territories, both for German material from the campaigns and for confiscated material--so-called black market wares.
Q Will you please describe to us how it actually came in and was passed on?
A The whole business started somewhat slowly and from the beginning we felt in the case of Globocnik a secret resistance against any collaboration with the WVHA. What happened was that Lublin, usually by telephone or teletype, reported to us when now wagon-load of material were at their disposal. My official negotiated with the Reich Minister of Economics and that ministry told us what firm would use the material and where the transports were to go to; and by agreement with the management of the Reich railways railway wagons were put at our disposal.
These terms and the dates on the wagons supposed to be at our disposal were reported to Lublin by teletype--and that was the end of that for the time being. These were purely intermediary persons.
Q The Prosecution have submitted--and I am sure everybody will still remember it--a document signed by Frank of 26 September, 1942. It is in volume 18, page 85 of the English version, and page 108 in the German book, NO-724. Have you got the document?
A Yes.
Q Will you please tell us what conclusions you reached from the first line of this document, as far as our case here concerned?
A This order was made in six copies. I did not receive a copy of the order, but it was sent to me for informative reasons and I had to pass it on. From this order, I only memorized what concerned Office Group B, and I did not bother about the other regulations.
Q This order is addressed to the SS Garrison Administration in Lublin. Were you ever in Lublin?
A Yes; I was there twice, once in 1940 and on another occasion in the autumn of 1941. On both occasions I visited the Group Administration there.
Q What was the picture you had of Lublin from that period of time?
A The picture I had of Lublin was that of a large SS garrison. Lublin and its surroundings was full of SS troops, and I also had the impression that it was a large industrial center, in the extension of which Globocnik was extremely interested. It was also a large camp for any amount of supply goods for the Eastern front, and for any type of goods and wares from the Eastern territories.
Q In September, 1942--this is the period we are talking about now-did you have conception of the size of the territory east of Lublin at that time which was occupied?
A Yes, these vast areas I saw myself once, when in the summer of 1942 I went to Kiev and Dnjepropetrowsk.
Q Apart from this written order, did you have any secret official orders additionally from Pohl, or through Himmler, or someone else?
A No, in no way at all.
Q You told us now that you looked at this order only from the point of view of Office Group B, and you memorized it?
A Yes, that is true. It concerned the use to be made of the textiles.
Q Now, how did these things reach you? Or how was is that you heard about delivery the textiles goods?
A: These leads usually went in three or five wagons without our seeing them. They went direct to the firms which had been named by the Ministry of Economics. Lublin also reported that at Himmler's orders it had sent things to the Eastern German Agency or the concentration camp or any other agency named by Himmler. On some occasions he ordered the WVHA to have special supplies sent to the Eastern German Office. I recall for instance, that 10,000 pieces of clothing were to be sent to the Racial Germans on the Black Sea, and many other orders of this nature, for instance, a delivery to a certain construction scheme in the East. These deliveries were made from Lublin and we only kept the books.
Q: Who among your people worked on the technical side of the deliveries, which were the result of this order?
A: I told Hauptsturmfuehrer Kersten of B-IV to do this. He usually negotiated with the OKH and the Reich Ministry of Economics about raw materials.
Q: We have attempted to get hold of Kersten, but I couldn't find him. You don't know where he might be?
A: No, all I know is that in the end he was in the south.
Q: Did you give Kersten a free hand to carry out your order?
A: Obviously he had to work on the technical side of it. I couldn't be bothered with the technical details myself.
Q: In the order it says, for instance, that prices of this second hand material had to be fixed. Who fixed these standard prices?
A: Standard prices for textiles were fixed by the Reichs Ministry of Economics.
Q: At what intervals of time did Kersten report to you about the deliveries?
A: I am unable to give you the details there. Probably every four or six weeks he came to see me and told me how things stood.
Q: Apart from the textiles, there were leather goods and furs. How were they handled?
A: All these things were handled in accordance with orders issued by the Reichs Minister of Economics. On one occasion we received a few wagons of shoes which had come from the Reich Ministry of Economics and we were to use them to make shoes for inmates. The Furs went in accordance with the orders of the Reich Ministry of Economics to the Association of Furriers. A few sheepskins were sent by the Reich Ministry of Economics to us in order to have winter clothing made.
Q: How was the accounting done of these things which Kersten had handled?
A: The firms which received goods in accordance with the orders by the Reichs Ministry of Economics were given bills by us with the prices as fixed by the Reichs Ministry of Economics. The firms paid these bills by transmitting money to the treasury of WVHA. There they were booked as Reich income.
Q: Under whom were these Lublin camps? Who was in charge?
A: These camps were exclusively under Globocnik.
Q: You knew this man Globocnik, did you? What was his reputation?
A: I did indeed. I saw him perhaps four times and talked to him. His reputation was that he was Himmler's favorite and acted accordingly. He had the reputation of being extremely ambitious.
Q: And you hinted already that Globocnik did not like having the material collected by him sent to the Reichs Ministry of Economics. Do you believe that if the highest agency of the WVHA had not been interpolated in this the Reichs Ministry of Economics would have been able to copy with Globocnik?
A: I don't believe that they could have done so. Globocnik had the ambition of using material in his own enterprises and to make Lublin into an extremely large industrial center.
Q: Do I understand you to say that this artificial interpolation of the WVHA into the second-hand material business in Lublin with the German individual firms had two reasons: 1. Globocnik would obey only a very high agency and 2. That you received an increased allocation of raw materials in this manner.
How did Kersten handle these things -- from Lublin or did it go through some camp or some warehouse?
A: These deliveries came direct from Lublin to the warehouse appointed by the Reichs Minister of Economics without any intermediary stops.
Q: In these reports we find under paragraph F, bedding material, blankets, and so forth. Did you assume that the bedding material, for instance, had originated from concentration camp inmates?
A: You probably mean the feathers, not the bedding material.
Q: Where did you think feathers for beds came from. It is even more difficult to understand how feathers for pillows come from concentration camp inmates.
A: These immense quantities of feathers reinforced me in my opinion that these goods came from big warehouses which had been confiscated and I still believe that in this case we were concerned with warehouses and not things taken away from inmates.
Q: This order does not say it concerns Action Reinhardt, but it says it concerns the use of property on the occasion of the resettlement and deportation of Jews. What did you understand by resettlement and deportation?
A: At that time it was widely known that the Jews were to be deported to the East. How I pictured it was that in accordance with the various laws of the Reich superfluous properties and large warehouses and hoards were to be confiscated, the possession of which was blamed on the Jews by our propaganda.
Q: The prosecution have submitted documents in Book V on page 162, NO-606, Exhibit 151, Document Book 5, page 162. These are teletype letters signed by Brandt -- SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Brandt -- of Himmler's staff, and orders are given there, that working clothes, shoes, etc., are to be sent to racial Germans. Did you know anything about these orders of Himmler?
A: I said before that the WVHA received a few of these orders. Most of them, however, were addressed to Lublin direct by Himmler.
Q: Did you think that these instructions were justified in view of the situation of the racial Germans? What sort of people were they?
A: The racial Germans were people who had returned as persons of German blood from Russia, Rumania, and so forth, since these textiles were there I thought it was fully justified that these racial Germans should be equipped with these things, especially as these items of clothing were paid for by the agency for Racial Germans living abroad.
Q: How this second hand material did not only come from Lublin, but also from Auschwitz. Do you recall anything as to whether the Lublin or Auschwitz goods were bigger from a point of view of quantity?
A: As I remember it today, the Auschwitz lots were far less important than the ones from Lublin. After studying the files I am bound to assume that the biggest part of the material was used immediately for the needs of the concentration camps in Auschwitz and therefore only smaller quantities would reach the Reichministry of Economics.
Q: Did you form an impression at all where the Auschwitz material might come from?
A: What I thought at the time was that Auschwitz was a collecting center for the Jews who were being deported and that their superfluous baggage would be retained. We saw it after the war in the same way, when the Germans who had been deported from occupied Polish territories and Sudetenland only were allowed to carry a negligible part of their belongings and that was the way I imagined this to have been done.
Q Now, to talk about Document 1257 which is in Book 18, pages 137 and 138. This is on page 128 in the English Document Book. This document is subdivided into several parts; and I want to use the last letter of this document, on page 128 of the English version. The last letter is addressed by Himmler to SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Krueger. There Himmler says, on 15 January 1943, having been to Warsaw, quoting briefly: "When I visited Warsaw, I also inspected the warehouses where Jewish property was housed." I shall skip a few paragraphs and read on the next page the last two paragraphs:
"In Warsaw a very nice and personable administrative leader of the Cavalry Brigade helped me to put things in order. He was not really officially employed there, but SS Oberfuehrer von Sammern very sensibly had called him in to assist him. I would like to ask Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl to clear these things up down to the last detail and to get them in order because the utmost exactitude saves us a lot of trouble later on."
Did you know that document at the time?
A No, I did not see that document at the time.
Q Having read it now, is it your impression that the idea was to establish order?
A Yes. Himmler insisted that things should be kept on an orderly basis down to the last detail.
Q That would, I presume, include accounting, would it not?
A Yes.
Q Therefore I should like to turn to the first pages of this document. Do you have the document in front of you?
A Yes.
Q It is a report signed by Pohl; and in the left-hand corner at the bottom there are Kersten's initials. He was a SS Hauptsturmfuehrer. To that document there is attached an account of textile material, second-hand textile material, which is to be sent either to the Reich Ministry of Economics or the Liaison Office for Racial Germans living abroad or any other agency.
How was this document put together? Do you know it from that time?
A I can not recall this document nor can I say whether I saw it or not; but it was drawn up in my office group. I assume that when the document you mentioned first reached us, that is, Himmler's letter to Krueger and Pohl, this was the cause for Pohl to make a list in order to inform the Reichsfuehrer about the quantity of the material sent on by us.
Q Can you in that document see any indication of Action Reinhardt or any other similar material?
A No. The entire document does not contain that term for the simple reason that term was not very familiar to us at the time.
Q Did you see anything in the accounting about an Account Reinhardt at the time?
AAs far as the whole of the financial handling of this action is concerned, I had nothing to do with it.
Q Do you recall that Globocnik was transferred away from Lublin?
A I recall that, and I know that this transfer of Globocnik was warmly approved of by all of us.
Q Were you working in your official capacity on the inheritance of Globocnik in Lublin? Did you try to sort things out?
A No, I had nothing to do with that; and I had no orders to do so.
Q But meanwhile I suppose you saw the documents of the Prosecution in which Globocnik makes his accounts and tries to get assistance? I am now referring to documents from Document Book XIX where it is stated, "Trieste, 5th January 1944." How is it that Trieste appears on this?
A Globocnik had been transferred to Trieste.
Q He reported from there to whom?
A To Himmler.
Q Did that go through your office?
A I saw these reports for the first time here in Nurnberg, never before. I should like to add also that Globocnik in one of these documents speaks of 1900 wagons of textiles which were delivered to the Reich Ministry of Economics.
That figure can not be correct because I can not imagine that, in the course of 1943 when transportation was an extremely acute problem, another 1100 wagons would have come from Lublin. I think that would have been quite impossible. I should also like to recall the film which we saw about Maidanek Camp. In that film it was stated that large quantities of the textiles had been sent by the Gestapo to the Berlin Ploetzensee Prison. That prison was completely outside our competence; and this merely proves that Globocnik delivered things to other agencies as well and that they probably benefited from the 1900 wagons which are mentioned here.
Q. You wish to say, therefore, that from that document it can not be seen in any sense what went through your office on the basis of Kersten's actions?
A No, it can not be seen from that document, no.
Q This document is purely a final report from Globocnik from his point of view without taking your office into consideration?
A Yes.
DR. HAENSEL: I am thus leaving this complex. All I have to do now is to deal with one final chapter which will take up about one hour but which I would be disinclined to separate into two halves.
THE PRESIDENT: You would like to start in the morning?
DR. HAENSEL: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Court will recess until tomorrow morning.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is in recess until 0930 tomorrow morning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 19 June 1947 at 0930 hours.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America against Oswald Pohl, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurenberg, Germany, on 19 June 1947, 0930-1630, Justice Robert M. Tome presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Take your seats, please. The Honorable, The Judges of Military Tribunal No. II. Military Tribunal No. II is now in session, God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal.
GEORG LOERNER - Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
DR. HAENSEL: May it please the Tribunal I just want to quote quite briefly and to rectify the sources of this truth. "Don't blind the mouth to the ox who is thrashing". And that is in the Book of Moses 24/4 and I also quoted from first Timothy 15/18 and in the First Corinthians, 9/9. That means three times.
Q We will now pass to the last section of my questioning, which I announced under the heading, "What did you not do?" Is it permissible to enter such a question in a penal trial? Is it possible to become guilty by omitting to do something -- by not doing something?
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Haensel, don't you think that is probably a question of law for the court to answer, rather than the witness?
DR. HAENSEL: No, if Your Honor please, by this question I only wanted to lead the witness to come to his own omissions and to say whether he himself has omitted something important. That's the question I wanted to ask him.
THE PRESIDENT: Don't you think still that the Court should determine that rather than the witness?
DR. HAENSEL: Whether he has become guilty, of course, that is for the court to decide, but whether or not he is convinced that he has omitted something that he could have done that, of course, is a question for the witness himself, isn't it? Perhaps I might ask him, did he fail to execute orders which were given to him.
THE PRESIDENT: That's all right.
DR. HAENSEL: Something in that line, at least.
Q Would you please explain to the Tribunal whether as a soldier, because after all you felt as a soldier, whether you executed the orders you were given or whether you can reproach yourself for failing to execute orders?
A I know that one becomes guilty if one doesn't do something which one ought to do, especially as a soldier, if one doesn't execute an order, but I am not conscious of any order which I received, which I didn't execute.
Q However, you are reproached with the fact that because you executed orders you became coresponsible in criminal acts. Do you know that it is a crime to execute such orders?
A I never consciously executed a criminal order and I never received an order which was directed against the life or the freedom of a human being, except in the First World War when I was a soldier in the front line, when I had to shoot, but otherwise I never had orders to execute people or to seize foreign property.
Q Well, let's deal with this question of foreign property for a minute. But it is doubtless, after all, that you had to deal with such property and that you had to know at least that it had been taken away from their owners against their will. I mean, after all, you must have known that much.
A There again I have to say "no." At least as far as the period of peace is concerned and the first two years of the War. Only when the lack of raw materials and food became so strong, only when our military defeats at Stalingrad took place and when the Americans landed in Morocco, and when Africa was lost. Then for the first time I received property for disposal which I had to suppose was looted property or confiscated property.
Q You spoke of seized property or confiscated property. In other words, you disposed of property which you yourself didn't seize, which, however, were seized by other agencies.
Could you account for such property which had been brought together, by violence and didn't you think of that at that time -- didn't you have doubts?
A Of course, I had doubts and I much rather wouldn't have had anything to do with these matters, which had not been yielded voluntarily by other people. However, the situation of our people at that time forced us to do it. In all fields we had bottle necks and especially in the fields of textiles. Our soldiers didn't have everything they needed. We had to take it as it came in and from where we could get them. At that time I assumed that the property had been seized by military necessity; at least, that was the way it was presented to us at that time and I had no possibility whatever to doubt that it was military necessity.
Q Witness, the military necessity, of course, is a conception which has a lot of legal importance. After all it's written in the Hague Convention. But this military necessity could only have conferred a right to submit all civilians who live in the State or in the field of power to the seizure of their property and not only the Jews. This special treatment of the Jews is the question involved here. What do you think of that?
A. Well, you are quite right, Doctor, but I am convinced too that the totalitarian state at that time did not only seize Jewish property, but also the property of the whole German people and put it into the service of the war, without any exceptions and used it for itself. The conscription made it a duty for every German to sacrifice his life for the war, and the war-effort law made the same with property. The savings which the Germans brought to the savings banks were used without restriction by the State for war. Clever methods were instituted with which the last reserves were dragged out of the people. I remember the various collections and drives, wool collections, the clothing collection, and whatever it was --. We were told and we heard all the time on the radio and in the newspapers that the Jews would not yield anything voluntarily and constantly one spoke of enormous hoards of stocks which had been found in the Ghettos. I at that time had no possibility to doubt these facts. I imagined that from absolute necessity of War these materials had to be seized whereever found and I had no possibility, as I said, to protest against this kind of warfare and take any position against it.
Q. But, if you had known in reality everything you know how, how much misery, and how much blood and tears was connected with part of these materials, what would you have done then?
A. I certainly wouldn't have taken any part in it. What I would have done in detail that of course is very difficult for me to explain today, but if I had known how much blood was on those clothes and things I certainly wouldn't have taken part. These goods which were placed at my disposal, constituted for me looted property, looted for military necessity.
Q. But let's take a more concrete question. Let's deal with a few documents which you have been charged with by the Prosecution. I now put to you Document NO-517, that is in Volume IV on page 46. It is Exhibit 86, Your Honors, Volume IV on page 46, in the German, that is, It is NO-517. It is on page 34 in the English text. This document is headed "Camp Regulations for Prisoners" and it is signed by Baier.
In the parenthesis you see "Pay Regulations" that means it is that part of the camp regulations that deals with pay, and according to this document the Hauptamt Chief, that is Pohl, ordered the co-defendant Baier to establish a camp regulation and at that time, as it is said here, the Oberfuehrer Loerner was to have a part in it. From the contents of the document it becomes apparent that the inmate pay in a general way was to be paid to the Reich. It is true that the man who signed this document after all had the express view-point that not all the money should go to the Reich. It is a question of pay here which should be left to the inmates and premiums and so on. Does such a document, Witness, and that is the reason why I put it to you, not point to the fact that you took a part in an inhuman exploitation of human beings who had been deprived of their liberty?
A. Doctor, this document is not chosen very well, because the Oberfuehrer Loerner mentioned here is my brother and not myself, but he didn't have any part in this task, according to his own testimony. But apart from that I myself knew too that the inmates received only a small fraction of the pay which was paid by the enterprises for them. These facts as to deprivation of freedom by order of the State or the forcing to work by order of the State which had been ordered by all the Reich agencies, these facts were known to me. The coercion to work, which after all had started long before the date of this document on the strength of the emergency of the State and which had been extended to all citizens of the Reich was common knowledge. I in my position had no possibility to do anything against this way of conducting warfare.
Q. Well, let's take some concrete cases. Document NO-1563 has been submitted and that is in Volume 14 on page 56 in the German text, Volume 14, as I said, and page 56 of the German text and it is Exhibit 302.