Q. Were you competent to deal with that question?
A. No; actually I wasn't. I had nothing to do with the German Slate Oil, G.m.b.H., the name was simply fictitious, by the way.
Q. Who was it that had these examiners for aptitude tests transferred?
A. The examiners were sent in by the special delegate for slate oil production. That was a Reich agency which was under Commissioner Geilenberg. He was the one who initiated the emergency program for the production of gasoline because all synthetic gasoline plants in Germany had been destroyed by air-raids.
Q. With reference to this examiner for aptitude test, was he an inmate or a free person?
A. It was a free person.
Q. Witness, can you state if you had anything to do with that matter? Did you issue any orders or anything of the kind?
A. No, the entire matter with reference to this slate oil company--the production itself was under Herr Pohl personally. As far as I can recall he had repeated conferences with Prof. Krauch who came from I.G. Farben.
Q. Before I finish, witness, I will show you Document NO-3839, which is a letter-- Mr. Robbins, can you tell me the exhibit number.
It is Exhibit 594, Mr. President.
Did you participate in the conference of the 18th of October, 1944, witness?
A. Herr Dr. Gawlik, I would have to see the document before I could tell you.
This document is signed by me, even though it is stated there: "Signature illegible," it was signed by me. I can see that from the dictation mark. It is stated there that a conference took place at Mr. Pohl's office in the presence of chief of W. I couldn't tell you today if I did participate or not. I simply don't remember. From the way it is written up, I would like to say that I did not participate in it because otherwise I would have mentioned the fact that I did participate, and I wouldn't have written; in the presence of Chief W.
Q. Did you make the decision about the transfer of inmates?
A. No, I couldn't. The decision for their transfer was resting only with Mr. Pohl.
Q. Did you participate in any way in this decision?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. What was the reason for your having signed this letter to Maurer, witness, and why didn't you sign the letter addressed to the commander of Auschwitz?
A. In such important matters - I could only sign in the internal communication - Chief W had to sign. That was the reason why this letter which was addressed to the commander of Auschwitz in connection with this matter was signed by Herr Baier. Of course, I do not want to state by that I didn't sign quite a few letters which were also sent to the outside of the building--but in important matters I did not sign.
Q Witness, the coming questions will refer to membership in a criminal organization. At the same time, these will be the final questions. How old were you when you started dealing with political questions?
A It was with the beginning of my studies, that is at 19 years of age.
Q What was your political attitude at the time, witness?
A I was an active member of the Democratic Youth.
Q Were you active in any political way?
A Yes, I was.
Q How were you active?
A I was a member of the German Windhorst Bund, which was a youth organization of the German Zentrum Party, which at the time was the party of Reichs Chancellor Bruening.
Q Who was Windhorst, Witness?
A Windhorst was a Catholic politician at the end of the 19th century, who was the head of the Catholics in the so-called Culture Struggle.
Q Were you a member prior to 1933 of any organization or political party?
A I was a candidate to the membership of the Deutsche Zentrum Party.
Q What were the reason why it became impossible to you to become politically active in this line.
A By the seizure of power by the NSDAP.
Q Would you tell the Tribunal of what importance the 20 January 1933, was for both the cultural and mental activity of the German people, witness?
A The entire cultural and mental and political participation of the entire German people was tuned in with the ideas of the NSDAP, which meant that all organizations were changed to the leadershipPrinciple, all the leading positions were taken over by the socalled "Old Fighters," that is, those men who, prior to 30 January 1933, had joined the National-Socialist Party, and who had been politically active.
Political parties were all dissolved with the exception of the NSDAP. Every political activity which did not quite correspond to the principles of the NSDAP and was in contrast with it was forbidden under the threat of punishment. The German Youth was asked to become politically active in the sense of the NSDAP. Membership to the Party was not sufficient. It was necessary that a person be a member of an affiliate organization of the Party, that is the SS, SA, NSKK, etc.
Q How old were you, witness, on the 30th of January 1933?
A I was 23.
Q What did the then political situation cause you to do?
That is, after the 30th of January 1933?
A During the first few months, I refused to join the NSDAP or any other affiliated organization. However, at the time I was still getting my lawyer's training. I was a so-called Referendar in the courts. I had to work there for a period of three years without getting any pay, in order to enable me to become a lawyer. I wanted to become a lawyer. The judge who was training me, was a member of the Democratic Party until the seizure of power by the Nazis, had also joined the NSDAP in order not to loose his position. He told me verbating that he would advise me very urgently to join the NSDAP, both on amount of my political past and that of my familie. Then approximately two months he often drew my attention to the fact that I should join the NSDAP. On the last day before the Party was closed, on the 30th of April, I joined the NSDAP. My father had been dismined by the NSDAP due to his political activity prior, and my father-in-law, who was a member of the Christian Worker's Union had also been dismined.
Therefore, I cannot state that I joined the Party by conviction.
THE PRESIDENT: What year?
A 30 of April 1933.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q Did you also join any of the affiliated organizations?
A Yes, on the 5th of November 1933.
Q What was the affiliated organization?
A It was the Allgemeine SS, or the General-SS
Q What was the reason for you having joined the SS also?
AAll the young Referendars, as they were called at the time, the lawyers who were practicing toward the end of October were called to go to the Auditorium Maximum of the University, and one of the leaders of the Party spoke to us there. He stated that all the referendars had to join the affiliated organizations of the party. More membership in the NSDAP would not be sufficient, according to him. Those who didn't participate actively would not be permitted to pass the examination for assessors. It was left up to us to join the SA, the SS, NSKK, or the aviators' Corps. Apart from that I was a member of a Student's Corps, which was quite close to the political Catholicism. And they also urged us to join the affiliated organizations of the Party. The first order which was issued by the Associated of Young Lawyers caused me to join the SS.
Q On the basis of the knowledge of the facts which were decisive for your entry in the SS would you as a lawyer say that you joined the SS voluntarily?
A I am of the following opinion. A decision is only voluntary when it is not affected by any outside circumstances and as long as it is not done under duress. Voluntary decision no longer exists when the person concerned isn't free to make the decision in order to avoid both financial and moral damage.
Those were the circumstances at the time which forced me to join the SS.
Q Did you try to resign from the SS, witness?
A Yes, I tried to resign from the Allgemeine SS.
Q Did you succeed in doing so?
A No, I didn't.
Q What was the reason for your wanting to resign from the SS, witness?
A In 1937 somebody reported me by saying that I had secretly gone to the Rhineland and got married in a Catholic church. The trial on the basis of this repeat was quastred, however, because I had told the SS before getting the marriage permission of this fact, that I wanted to get married in a Catholic manner. It was due to this reason that I no longer wanted to stay with my SS unit. I decided to have my name changed from the list of that SS written into the list of the Cavalry-SS.
THE PRESIDENT: Was it forbidden to be married in the Catholic church?
A It was not officially forbidden, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, would that be a reason for making charges against you?
A If I would not have stated it on the fragebogen which had been submitted to me, then they would have started a trial against me, but I stated in the fragebogen that I was going to get married in the Catholic manner. When the official act of marriage had taken place in Berlin, and when I drove to the Rhineland together with my young wife in order to get married in a convent, the SS-men who were members of my unit assumed that I didn't want to tell the SS about it. Whereupon they sent a report to the highest SS leader in Berlin. A trial was started against me before I was even given a hearing.
Well, of course, I refuted that when I finally got my questionnaire, and I showed it to them. Therefore, I must state now officially that it was not forbidden to get married in a Catholic church.
THE PRESIDENT: The thing you were to be tried for was getting married in the church without getting the permission of the SS?
A No, not quite.
THE PRESIDENT: What did you do that was wrong, that is what I am trying to find out.
A I have done nothing wrong.
THE PRESIDENT: What did they say you had done, what did they try you for?
A Because they assumed that I had not told the SS -
THE PRESIDENT: Told the SS what?
A That I was going to get married in the Catholic church, it was assumed by a few of the SS men that I didn't tell the SS about it; and if I had not told them about it, they would have started a trial against me.
THE PRESIDENT: And did you have to tell the SS that you were going to get married in the Catholic church?
A Yes, indeed. However the question on the questionary was: "Do you intend getting married in church", and I wrote, "Yes, in the Catholic church."
THE PRESIDENT: Well, suppose you had said, "Well it is none of your business." Could they have done something to you?
A Well, I don't know. May be so, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, could they have stopped you from getting married wherever you wanted?
A No, they couldn't. May I would have been dismissed from the SS, and then I would have died sorially, because I would have lost my position, I would have been put in the street without a job.
I would have become a common laborer because after all, I was w working in a state position, I had a state position, civil service.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, had you finished, Dr. Gawlik?
DR. GAWLIK: No, Your Honor, I had a few more questions, possibly 15 minutes or so, then I have a few questions as defense counsel for Dr. Bobermin.
THE PRESIDENT: We will resume at 9:30 tomorrow morning.
(The Tribunal recessed until 0930 hours, 29 July, 1947.)
Official Transcript of Military Tribunal II Case IV, in the matter of the United States of America, against Oswald Pohl, et al., defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 29 July, 1947, 0930-1630. Justice Toms, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal II.
Military Tribunal II is now in session. God save the United States of America, and this Honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the courtroom.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q Witness, before the recess yesterday afternoon you spoke about the difficulties which you had with your sturm, with your unit. Was it after that you turned in a request for resignartion, and it was not approved? Now what did you do after your request for resignation was not approved?
A I had myself transferred to another unit, and I did that upon suggestion of some of my colleagues, I was transferred to the Standarte of the Mounted-SS.
Q When was that?
A I believe it was in the middle of 1937. In the meantime I had started to earn money, the activities in the Mounted-SS cost me some money, and I was in a position to pay, therefore.
Q What was your highest rank in the Reiter-SS, witness?
A I was Unterscharfuehrer. As compared with a military rank this amounts approximately to the rank of a NCO.
Q Will you tell us your promotions with the dates also while in the Waffen-SS?
A I was conscripted as an SS man; in the month of March 1940, I became an Unterscharfuehrer, that is a corporal. Then in the middle of July 1940 my rank was adapted to my education and I became an Untersturmfuehrer of the Waffen-SS. In September 1941 I became Obersturmfuehrer, that is 1st Lieutenant, and, in the Autumn of 1942 I became Hauptsturmfuehrer, that was my highest rank.
Q Were you at any time a staff officer in the Waffen-SS?
A No.
Q Did you have a higher or lower rank than your co-defendants, Witness?
A Out of the seventeen SS members who are sitting here as defendants, I and Hauptsturmfuehrer Sommer have the lowest rank out of all of them.
Q Were you an active officer of the Waffen-SS?
A No, I was not. I was a reserve officer.
Q Will you describe to the Tribunal the difference between an active and a reserve officer in the Waffen-SS?
A The leaders in the Waffen-SS who were active SS-officers, make it their profession, which profession they do not only perform during peacetime, but also during a war. The reserve leaders have a different career. Their activity in the Waffen-SS is linked to the time during the war. After the end of the war they are no longer soldiers and work in their own civilian profession again.
Q Were you a fulltime SS-Fuehrer?
A No.
Q Will you describe to the Tribunal the idea of a fulltime SSleader, or an SS-officer?
A The fulltime SS-officer only exists in the General-SS. He is working with the SS all day long, and is being paid by the SS. What I mean to say, he has no other professional career besides that one.
Q What was the reason for your not having the position of a fulltime SS-officer, Witness?
A Because I never did receive any pay from the General SS. The SS was an organization of the Party, of the NSDAP, and payment came from the Reich Treasurer of the NSDAP, his name was Schwartz. He also took care of the military pay. I never did receive any pay from the Treasurer of the Reich. My pay was never affected by the directives as issued by the Reich Exchequer. It was never fixed as such.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Well, who did pay you?
A From the end of September 1941 the DWB, G.m.b.H., paid me the German Economic Enterprises.
Q And those were SS industries, weren't they?
A Your Honor, on Friday I explained that. The DWB, G.M.B.H. was a Reich company. Therefore, it was not an SS industry.
Q Well, all right. Did you receive no salary as a Hauptsturmfuehrer?
A No, I didn't. My contract of employment which is among the documents here states explicitly that I was being employed as a legal advosor. I didn't sign that contract with my Army rank either. Apart from that, Your Honor, according to paragraph 3 of the contract, I reserved myself a three months notice unilaterally.
Q That isn't the point. You held a position as Hauptsturmfuehrer.
A Yes, indeed, Your Honor.
Q But you received no pay as a military officer?
A No, I never did receive any salary. I only received the so-called Wehrsold of 96 marks.
(That is Wehrsold, Your Honor, I can't think of the translation of that, Your Honor. It is pay in connection with military service but you can't very well call it military pay.)
Q Well, all of your pay came from the DWB?
A Yes, my entire pay came from the DWB, G.m.b.H.
Q And, how much was it?
A 1600 marks, Your Honor.
Q Per month?
A Yes, indeed.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q Witness, when were you conscripted into the Waffen-SS?
A I was conscripted into the Waffen-SS on 3 January 1940.
Q Where did you get your payment from since you joined the Main Office of Economics and Administration?
A From 3 January 1940 on until September 1941 I received my salary from my peacetime agency which was the German Gemeindetag and not from the SS with the exception of the military service pay given to every soldier. That military service payment, however, was deducted off my salary. That regulation is contained in the military pay code dated 1 September 1939.
Q Witness, will you take up the contract of employment you spoke about before. It is Document NO-2163, Exhibit 399. It is contained in Document Book 14 on page 76. Are the contents of this document correct?
A Yes, indeed.
Q Did you become a fulltime SS-officer on the basis of this contract of employment?
A No.
Q Did this contract of employment have any importance for your legal relationship with the Waffen-SS?
A No.
Q Can you describe this more in detail?
A First of all, let me explain to the Tribunal how this contract of employment came about. In 1941, it was the end of 1941, I already had received such a contract. I already mentioned on Friday that old contract has approximately the shape of this contract here with the exception of the last five paragraphs.
As I in 1941 had been transferred from the Main Office for Economics and Administration to the DWB, G.m.b.H., my vice president tole me that he could no longer pay me. After all I was working with the G.m.b.H. now. Therefore, with a private enterprise and the State and administrative regulations do not allow to continue to pay a salary to a man who is working for the G.m.b.H. I also explained that Herr Pohl wanted to take me over as a fulltime SS officer which I refused, that he wanted to pay me as an officer of the Waffen-SS which I didn't like either because that pay was too low. I had a much higher pay during my peacetime activity. That was the reason why this contract came about.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q We heard this same story last friday, Dr. Gawlik, it's now new.
A It was on the basis of this contract that I became an employee of the DWB, G.m.b.H., The German economic enterprise is a company under civilian law, therefore, not unlike the SS, an organization of the Party. If I would only have become a fulltime SS officer I would have received my pay from the Reich Treasurer of the NSDAP.
Q That is sufficient. We have heard enough about it. Would you have been dismissed from the Waffen-SS if you refused to sign that contract?
A No, I would have had to continue to serve in the Waffen-SS and carry out my duty. I couldn't have been able to resign. The only question would have been "How am I able to feed my family?"
Q What additional facts can you state as the reason why you did not become a fulltime SS officer on the basis of this contract?
A I was neither a member of the Lebensborn, nor of the SS-Spargemeinschaft as a paying member.
Q Was it possible during the war to resign from the Waffen-SS?
A No.
Q Can you justify this a little bit more in detail?
A The Waffen-SS was the fourth branch of the Army, besides the Navy and the Air Force. Just as it was impossible to resign from the Army, Navy or Air Forces it was also impossible to resign from the Waffen-SS.
Q Was it possible for you to have yourself detached from the Waffen-SS to one of the other three branches of the Army, that is, the Navy, the Air Forces?
A No, during the war the Waffen-SS was extended more and more and many soldiers and officers of the other branches of the Wehrmacht were transferred to the Waffen-SS and that under duress.
Q The Prosecution has stated that the defendants had been for all the time professional members of the Waffen-SS. This is contained in the record on page 113. Does that apply to you also, Witness?
A No.
Q Now, this is the last question. The Prosecution on page 113 also alleges that the SS was your way of living. What do you have to say about that, Witness?
A. This charge preferred against me is not comprehensible to me, I do not understand what the prosecution wants to show by saying this. However, I would like to say one thing, namely, the SS, as seen by the prosecution, was not my way of living. I could actually prove that statement from a whole number of facts of my life so far. It would especially result from this that I in no way was a blind fanatic follower of Himmler who, without criticism, agreed with all the measures taken by Himmler. I observed all political events with a critical eye at all times. According to my sense of justice, I always acted wherever I could act. I would like to point out two facts which came to my knowledge officially and which have already been mentioned in this trial. In the first case I am speaking about enemy property with which I officially had to deal, namely, the case of the Appollinaris A.G. which was the greatest soda water enterprise. Heydrich, or the Gestapo, illegally confiscated that property and had already decreed the seizure. When the property administrator, that is, the Reich Commissioner for Enemy Property, called me up, I drew Pohl's attention to the fact that was an illegal measure. After long debate, I succeeded in getting Pohl to give me an order to take care of the matter - put it back into order. In a conference in the Reich Justice Ministry, where highest officials of various ministries and representatives of the RSHA were present, I, as the only man there in presence of my legal assistant, saw to it that the property was not seized but administered as defined by international laws.
A second fact which came to my knowledge while on duty was a woman who was being persecuted for racial reasons. The RSHA wanted to take away whatever she had inherited and I saw to it that the woman received her inheritance. Her name is Helene Hoffman and she is living in Geneva, Switzerland. She received all the money, paid in foreign exchange. I succeeded in doing so in two years, from 1942 to 1944.
I do not want to speak about all these individual cases in detail, but I shall prove by affidavits, and probably also by international affi davits, that all those facts stated are true, and I shall introduce them in my document book.
Apart from that, I helped many people and advised them in political matters; I could do this because I was conscripted in the Waffen-SS. This will be shown in affidavits, also.
DR. GAWLIK: Your Honor, I have then completed the direct examination of Dr. Volk as a witness in his own behalf.
I have only a few questions on behalf of the defendant Dr. Bobermin.
BY JUDGE PHILLIPS:
Q. Did you receive any additional compensation as the personal representative or advisor of the defendant Pohl in addition to what you got under your contract from the DWB?
A. No, I did not receive anything further.
Q. That was just additional duties, not outlined in your contract?
A. Yes, indeed, Your Honor. Your Honor, I also never did get paid for any other activities which I had to carry out.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Will you explain what the Allgemeine SS did? I mean, what were the activities of the Allgemeine SS?
A. The activity of the Allgemeine (General) SS, Your Honor, is very difficult to explain, the reason being that it depended on the individual units where the men were assembled. First of all, you had to do some training in the first few years.
Q. What kind of training?
A. Military training.
Then the SS, in case there should be party rallies and parades, had to make a cordon, a ribbon, around the people there just as if they were policemen. Political lectures only took place very seldom and depended entirely on the officer in charge of the individual unit. If the man was culturally high and well-educated, then the lectures were good. That is to say, lectures in connection with National Socialistic idea, but there weren't too many of those so they sometimes didn't have any lec tures whatsoever.
Very seldom, as I stated before.
Q. Did the members wear a uniform? A military uniform?
A. In the Allgemeine SS every SS-man had to buy himself a black uniform at his own expense and he wore that uniform only when he went on duty which was every Tuesday and Friday evenings, for instance.
Q. When the members of the Allgemeine SS drilled, did they carry arms - weapons?
A. I didn't quite get that. Would you repeat, please?
(Interpreter repeated)
No, that was forbidden, Your Honor. Only in the first years - I believe in 1934 - it occurred that we did some small caliber shooting but those were weapons which were given us. For instance, a unit of 150 men received three to five rifles and those rifles were permissible according to the Versailles peace treaty.
Q. The only weapons you had were hand weapons, that is, side arms?
A. We were not permitted to wear side arms or bayonets. All we used, at the beginning, was simply a belt. The officer of the unit, compared with the military rank in a company, had a pistol, but he had to have a special permit for that. And in later years, Your Honor, the men received a so-called honorary dagger. It was not a bayonet, though; it was simply a small piece for decoration.
Q. Did the Allgemeine SS drill with horses or with artillery -- with large caliber guns?
A. The Allgemeine SS did not drill, only the Mounted SS had horses and they did horseback riding. Possibly a wrong impression was created abroad when pictures were shown about the SS Special Task Group. That SS Special Task Group, even before the war, had a black uniform, but that was not the General SS.
Q. When you were with the DWB as Prokurist after 1943, you were in uniform?
A. Yes, I was. I had to wear a uniform. Herr Pohl asked us to.
Q. That is, you wore the uniform of an SS Captain?
A. Yes, indeed.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Witness, do you know how the defendant Dr. Bobermin joined the Waffen SS?
A. The defendant Dr. Bobermin received the same order of conscription as I did.
Q. How do you know that, witness?
A. When I was in the Main Department III A/4, he showed me that conscription order and he told me to add that to his files.
Q. Herr Dr. Hohberg, in the cross examination, explained the forms of German enterprises and their organs according to commercial law and commercial law and commercial code. Was that correct? Was that description complete?
A. I'm afraid I don't remember Dr. Hohberg's testimony very clearly. Maybe you can give me a few tips or ask me direct questions.
Q. Was there an organ missing, not according to commercial law but according to another law, according to the law concerning labor? Please give it to me very briefly, witness.
A. After the seizure of power--
Q. Very briefly, please, tell us what organ was missing.
A. The business manager.
Q. Who was the business manager and how did he receive his job and his sphere of responsibility according to the legal regulations?
A. The explanation of a business manager is contained in the code concerning national labor. The law is dated 30 January 1934, I believe. The term "business manager" is explained there. This law was changed completely to comply with the Fuehrer principle; it says there:
"The leader of an enterprise decides in all managerial questions."
Therefore, he was the leader of the enterprise and he was the one who made the decisions in all managerial questions.
Q. Was the business manager always identical with the business owner or the organ according to commercial law?
A. He didn't have to be that. If, for instance, an Aktiengesellschaft (A.G.) had several supervisor board members, then one business manager was appointed, or then if a GMBH had several business managers, then one works manager was appointed. One could not change the GMBH law to comply with the Fuehrer principle immediately. That was the reason why one used the law concerning national labor.
DR. GAWLIK: Your Honor, I'm just informed that the German word "Betriebsfuehrer" was translated "business manager". That is not correct because business manager is "Geschaeftsfuehrer". The Betriebsfuehrer is a works manager or plant manager. I don't even know if there is an English translation. I am not speaking about the business manager, but I'm speaking about the plant manager. This is a term which was created after 1933 and that plant manager was the one who was responsible for everything.
THE PRESIDENT: I think we understand the difference.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. How were the conditions with enterprises which had several plants?
A. I don't know that, Mr. Defense Counsel. I would have to take a look at the law concerning national labor again. I couldn't possibly give you such a quick answer without even looking it up in the booklet.
Q. Do you know the situation in the DWB? Who was the plant manager there?
A. In the DWB GMBH Pohl, the defendant, was the sole plant manager. Then, in various affiliated companies there were also plant managers. I believe, since you are examining me for Dr. Bobermin, that the plant manager of the Golleschauer Cement Works was Herr Goebel. I believe that he had that explicitly stated in the contract.
Q. Now, I shall speak about another subject, witness. Do you know if the administration of brick factories which were in the Russian territory were part of the task of the defendant Dr. Bobermin?
A. Dr. Bobermin was simply to find the brick factories. He did not run them. I don't believe that ever occurred; when we are speaking of Russia, you have to differentiate between various areas. You have Central Russia, and the Eastland, the eastern territories, were under Gauleiter Lose, who was Reich Commissioner for Russia. The Ukraine was under Gauleiter Kock, who was the Reich Commissioner for the Ukraine. Then there was a third territory, Bialystok, for instance, which the Russians had occupied and incorporated into Russia in 1940 -- I believe it was toward the end of 1939. After that territory had been recaptured by the German Army, it was incorporated into the Ex-Government General at the time. As far as the conditions are concerned between the territories in Eastland and the Ukraine, I can say the following: The brick factories in the Eastland were always operated by the Reichs Commissioner for the Eastland. He didn't want to have anybody else interfere within his sphere of tasks. Now, as far as the territory of Ukraine is concerned, I believe there was an agreement between Gauleiter Kock and Herr Pohl, according to which Herr Pohl would delegate several SS officers to Kock. These SS officers were taken over by Koch and incorporated into the administration of the Reichs Commissariat. These brick factories were also operated by Koch at the expense of the Reichs Commissioner and not the expense of the WVHA.
Q. Witness, I shall now speak about something else. On the direct examination, you stated that until the end of 1942 you were prokurist of Klinker Works, GMBH. Were inmates employed in the Klinker works GmBH at that time?
A. No.
Q. Was the labor allocation of inmates intended at the time in the enterprises there?
A. No.
Q. Do you know that in the summer of 1943 in the Golleschauer Portland Cement GmBH inmates were used for labor assignments?