Well, go ahead and do it your way.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Did you take part in the foundation of DAW?
A. Yes, that becomes also clear from Document NO-678 which is Exhibit -- I don't know what the Exhibit is. That company was founded on 3 May 1939 but at that time I was not yet with the Main Office for Economy and Administration. I was only called into that office later on.
Q. Did you take part in the foundation of the German Experimental Food Station?
A. This becomes also clear from Book 17 and I shall quote "The German Experimental Food Station GMBH which was founded on 9 February 1939 and entered in the Commercial Registry of the District Court". I was at that time not yet with the Main Office Economy and Administration.
Q. When the contract for Textile and Leather Works was signed did you have any part in that?
A. No, that again becomes clear from Document 1001. The company was formed 21 June 1940. In paragraph 6 of this contract the managers are named. One of them was a legal expert and he advised that company from the legal point of view.
Q. When the foundation contracts of companies were drawn up the purpose of which was to employ inmates, did you have any part in it?
A. In each contract, according to German law, with the GMBH matters, the purpose of the contract is also to show what enterprise wishes to do. In no contract which I ever prepared did it state that the purpose of the company was to employ inmates during my time. I do not remember that companies were formed for the purpose of employing inmates.
Q The Prosecution has also said that you, as a member of Staff W, had taken part in the management of economic enterprises which employed inmates. What connections were there between Staff W or DWB and those firms, particularly DEST or DAW?
A I never directed companies or took part in the direction of companies which employed inmates. The firms of the concern, particularly DEST and DAW, were not directed by Staff W. They were directed by managers who received their orders most strictly from Pohl. These managers had to do what Pohl told them to do.
Q What connections were there between you and DEST and DAW?
A No connections at all.
Q Do you know whether, in those enterprises, other forced workers were used apart from concentration camp inmates?
A No, I don't know about that. When Dr. Hohberg was on the witness stand I heard that some forced labor - Jewish women - was used for Appolinaris of which I knew nothing.
Q Did you know at that time whether prisoners of war were employed in these enterprises?
A No, I didn't hear anything about that. As I had never been in a protective custody camp and I knew also that prisoners of war camps were under the Wehrmacht, therefore, it did not occur to me at all that prisoners of war could possibly be in concentration camps, especially as I was aware of the decrees of the International Red Cross.
Q Did Staff W have the task to select sites for concentration camps? This refers to page 84 of the opening statement of the prosecution.
A No.
Q Who was in charge of that task when the WVHA was founded?
A Before the WVHA was founded that task was looked after by the Inspectorate of Concentration Camps by arrangement with the Main Office Budget and Building.
The Main Office Budget and Building had a legal department which regulated the purchase of such sites as would be suitable for concentration camps. That becomes clear from Document NO-019 in Book 2, Page 46 of the German Book. It is Exhibit 46. I quote:
"In addition to my letter, referred to above, I wish to report that, after today's discussion, the chief of the Budget and Buildings Main Office, SS Gruppenfuehrer Pohl, would welcome if the Prisoners' Camp Stutthof near Danzig and its places of work would be taken over as a State concentration camp."
This shows quite clearly that Pohl, who was then Chief of the Main Office for Budget and Building and the Main Office for Economy and Administration, is being addressed as the Chief of the Main Office Budget and Building.
Q Who was responsible for the order to establish a concentration camp?
A Himmler himself. That becomes clear from the document which is on page 44 of Book 2. It is Exhibit 24. I shall quote: "Concentration camps can be established only by my permission. "Signed Reichsfuehrer SS H.H., which stands for Heinrich Himmler.
Q The Prosecution has said that to purchase sites for concentration camps was a typical task for Staff W. Is that correct?
A No, the purchasing of sites for concentration camps was always done by the Legal Department. Before the WVHA was founded, it was done by the Main Office Budget and Building, an office, in other words, of the German Reich. This, as I have quoted before, becomes clear from Document NO-019. After the foundation of the WVHA, the purchase was carried out by the Legal Office A/III, the main department 2 thereof. This becomes clear from Document PS-1643, Exhibit 466. It's in book 18 on Page 36 of the German book. The English document book I'm afraid I haven't got. This is concerned with something we have discussed before in this trial. It's a document con cerning the enlarging of Auschwitz Concentration Camp.
That document says:
"The tasks put by the Reichsfuehrer SS demand that Concentration Camp A Auschwitz must be enlarged to the extent which has been put down on a map."
Yesterday on cross examination the Prosecution obligingly has submitted two documents, one document received the number 588 and the other received Exhibit #591. Document 588 is addressed to the Legal Department A/III. It says there in the second paragraph, last sentence:
"I informed the company of the fact that negotiations concerning the purchase of real estate for the Reich sector of the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office can be concluded by you."
The second document which was submitted, #591, says in its second paragraph concerning the question whether sites for the inmates' camp is to be purchased or leased:
"The Legal Office of Office Group A is the competent office for the purchase of real estate for the Reich has to decide on the question whether the area for the prison camp is to be bought or leased. I informed the Legal Office about your inquiry. You will hear details in the near future."
This shows clearly that the Legal Department A/III was competent for the purchase of sites for concentration camps.
I should like to add:
INTERPRETER: (Interrupting): Your Honor, the sound system is very faint.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will recess until Monday morning at 9:30.
(A recess was taken until 0930 hours, 28 July 1947).
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America against Oswald Pohl, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 28 July 1947, 0930, Justice Toms, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal No. 2.
Military Tribunal No. 2 is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the Court.
DR. LEO VOLK -- Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION -- Continued BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q On Friday I asked about the tasks and duties of Staff W. The Prosecution have asserted that Staff W had the function of leading negotiations about the purchase of sites for concentration camps, is that correct?
A No, that is not correct. A task of that sort was not part of Staff W.
Q The Prosecution had referred to the documents concerned with Stutthof. When were you in Stutthof?
A I went there on the 9th of January, 1942; then on another occasion I went to a place near Stutthof.
Q Will you please describe to the Tribunal the purpose of your visit to Stutthof?
A In Stutthof there was a camp for civilian prisoners. Himmler had ordered that this camp must be converted into a concentration camp. Outside that protective custody camp there was a piece of land which belonged to the Reich Forestry Administration. On that site the Sector had established a school, and for that purpose they had spent 600,000 Reich Marks. In connection with the conversion of the camp into a concentration camp, the idea was to have this land bought by the Reich. The amount of 600,000 Reich Marks which because of the sale of the piece of land became free was to be used for a settlement which was to be located 60 kilometers from Stutthof at a place called Oliva near Danzig. That land for the settlement was to be bought by the Public Utility Housing and Property, GmbH, went to Stutthof in order to take cafe of the interests of the settlement.
I had nothing to do with the conversion of the camp into a concentration camp. For that reason did I not take part in the negotiations about the protective custody camp.
Q Why did you take part in the negotiations at all?
A Only in my capacity as the manager of the Public Utility Housing and Property, GmbH., I took part.
Q Who ordered that Stutthof was to become a concentration camp?
A The conversion of the camp into a concentration camp was ordered by Himmler.
Q Will you please look at Document NO-2147, which is Exhibit 30. It is in Document Book II on page 59 of the German and page 48 of the English Document Book. Is this document correct in its essential features?
A The document is correct in its essential features. It shows in particular that the sites were correct, namely, that the civilian camp was to be converted into an official concentration camp on Himmler's orders.
Q Now please look at Document NO-2147, which is Exhibit 30 in Book II, pages 57 to 58 and gives us your comment about that document.
A The contents of that document are also correct. From paragraph 3 of that document it becomes clear that I went there only in order to establish the settlement near Danzig. I quote paragraph 3: "About the question of the Settlement, the Main Office said that this is to become an important settlement at the suggestion and for the purpose of the SS Main Sector Vistula and thus within the Allgemeine SS. The Reich Treasurer need not come into this at all, but for this purpose the existing enterprises, namely the Public Utility Housing and Property, GmbH., of Dachau, was to be interpolated. SS Oberfuehrer Dr. Kammler, and SS Obersturmfuehrer Dr. Volk are to go there early in January, 1942, together. The Main Office Chief expects me to report to him until the 15th of January 1942.
Q. Now please take the same document, the letter of 6 JanUary 1942, which is on pages 52 of the German and 42 of the English Document Books. Is that document correct?
A. By that document my statements are born out, which shows unequivocally that the land for the settlement was concerned. The purpose of the trip was, therefore, to regulate the questions concerned with the settlement were at Danzig. Only inorder to clear up that point I went up there, as I had said before.
Q. Now, please, take Document No. 2150. This is Exhibit No.31 in Book II, on page 51 of the English Document Book. Is that document correct?
A. This document confirms my statements, which shows there, and I quote: "The planning of the SS Settlement will be submitted to you. Your wish to have funds at your disposal for the purchase of the land near Stutthof, I shall take into consideration as much as possible, as soon as I have the instructions you will hear from me again." A letter from SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl to SS-Gruppen fuehrer Hildebrandt shows that here again it becomes clear that the purpose of my contract was purely and simply to purchase the site for a settlement near Danzig, as I have said before, at a distance of seventy kilometers from Stutthof, and therefore the funds are to come from the sale of the land with the school to the German Reich.
Q. Now, please take Document NO 2133, which is Exhibit No. 387, in Book 14, on page 41 of the English Document Book. Is that document correct?
A. Paragraph two of the document is not very precise, but for anybody who knows it is the same complicated matter, but it is not a doubtful formulation. You used and built up that of the land belonging to the Reich Forestry Administration outside the Protective Custody Camp upon which the school was standing. I, representing the Public Utility Housing and Property, GMbH, was interested in the money coming from the purchase, and, was, therefore, taking part in the negotiations.
After the land had been purchased by DWB, this piece of land was to be sold to the Reich. These negotiations were to be led by me. I emphasized already that the piece of land was never actually purchased, and, therefore, I did not take part in any further negotiations.
Q. Now, please take Document NO-2133, which is exhibit No. 387, in Book XIV, on page 36 of the German Document Book. Did you purchase the Brick Works at the Estate of Werderhof?
A. No. Those enterprises were either bought by the Reich Offices A-3 and Main Office II. My testimony concerning the Brick Works at Stutthof is born out by Document 1041, which is in Volume XVI, on page 44 of the German Document Book. I shall quote: "The Stutthof plant is contained in the business report by the DEST, and was established on 10 April 1941, by Office B-3 which is the Reich Office, the Billetting Administration, by Obersturmfuehrer Dr. Leube. I should explain this so that the Tribunal will know the organization of the offices of the Reich sector. If the Reich buys a piece of land --
THE PRESIDENT: What document are you talking about in volume XVI? What document?
THE WITNESS: It is Document NO-1049, which is on page 44 of the German text, No-1049.
DR. GAWLIK: It is Exhibit No 436.
THE PRESIDENT: All right.
THE WITNESS: It is a business report by the DEST, and it shows under Stutthof, "A-Stutthof"; the word Stutthof, which is the Brick Works, was leased on 10 April 1941, by Office A-III, by Obersturmfuehrer Leube. This shows that the Reich took over the Stutthof Works as its own property.
In order that the Tribunal will understand the organization, and particularly why Office B-III was interpolated here, I should like to give a brief explanation. If the Reich bought a plant with commercial negotiations, then the legal contract was carried out by the legal office, which is Office A-3. If that plant was sold to a private firm, which in this case was the DEST on a leased space, then Office B-III had to become active as the accommodations office. That office had the task of drawing up the list of inventory, so that it was clear in the future what things were being handed over when the lease was signed. So that, therefore, this is what this mark is about, and this shows quite logically that I, as the representative of the DWB did not buy the Brick Works at Stutthof, but the German Reich did. As far as the Werderhof is concerned, on that estate unhappily I have no document at my disposal and I know for a certainty today that this estate was not bought by the DWB, but again by the Reich. The commercial negotiations were lead by one Dr. Ast.
Q. Now, please take Document 2159, which is Exhibit No. 388, in Volume XIV, on page 43 of the English Document Book. Why was this document submitted to you?
A. This document was submitted to my by the legal department in my capacity as head of what was called Staff-W. The purchase of this piece of land on which the school building, and later on the commandant's office stood had to be effected by the DWB. The Public Utility Housing and Property, GMbH, was not in a position to carry out the negotiations, because according to the regulations or orders concerning dwellings and houses, such legal matters could not be dealt with by them.
Q. Witness, you just mentioned that the letter had been submitted to you as head of the so called Staff-W. Didn't you make a mistake there, or did you have a slip showing you as head of the so called legal department?
A. As the head of the legal department of what was called Staff-W.
Q. Now please take Document No. 2117, which is Exhibit No. 78 in Volume IV, on page 3 of the English Document Book. This is a letter by Loerner to the German Court of Audits. Why was that letter submitted to you for your information?
A. That letter was submitted to me, because when the school was being transformed into the commandant's offices, the 100,000 Reich marks were used up by the Chief of the Regular Police, and he thought they ought to be repaid. Unless the transaction, that is to say, the purchase of pieces of land to sell to the Reich by the DWB had been carried out, the DWB was to pay back those 300,000 marks to the Chief of the Regular Police. The DWB, therefore, was interpolated purely to disentangle this matter financially for money which had been invested into the piece of land which was not yet the property of the German Reich. It belonged to the Reich Forestry Administration. That is the reason why this letter was submitted to me.
Q. Was the piece of land ever purchased at all on which the protective custody camp was located?
A. I don't know. I had nothing to do with that. Nor did I work too much on that. That was up to A/III, the legal office as I explained on Friday.
Q. Was the piece of land outside the protective custody camp ever purchased on which the school was located?
A. No, for this one should look at Document NO 2157 which is in Volume 14. According to that document, one can see.......
Q. (Interrupting) If Your Honors please, it is Exhibit 388.
A. Under German law, a piece of land is only purchased after it has been entered into the registry, but the document also shows that this entry had not yet been made two and a half years later. I shall quote from this document:
"On 31 March 1944, together with Senior Ranger Neumann, representative of the Reich Forestry Administration, I had the certificate of transfer written out before the Local Court in Tiegenhof and filed a petition for entry."
He only made the petition, in other words.
"Unfortunately the entry will be delayed as:
"1. the Reich Forest Administration had not yet obtained the necessary official permit for the sales contract, and as "2. contrary to the prior statement of the Forestry Office, the Nehrungen Forest land register, volume 1, page 1, is not compiled by the Tiegenhof County Court, but by Danzig County Court.
The real estate dealt with in volume 1, page 1, extends over 70 km and is subject to the jurisdiction of three county courts. Only the parcel of land acquired by us can be separated and entered into a particular page of the land register. Senior Forest Ranger Neumann promised to speed up the affair. I shall make inquiries occasionally."
THE PRESIDENT: Who wrote Exhibit 388? Who signed it?
A. SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Hoffmann.
I should also like to point out that the piece of land cost us 50,000 Reichsmarks with woods thereon, and this becomes clear from the same document on page 41 of the German text. From that price and from the fact that it was only one separate piece of land it becomes quite clear that the negotiations were concerned only with that part of the land where the school was located, not the site of the concentration camp or the price also would have been much higher.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. I shall now come to a different chapter in your activities, where we are concerned with the period of time from the foundation of the WVHA until you became a personal assistant to Pohl. When was the WVHA founded?
A. On 3 March 1942.
Q. What organizational changes did this entail?
A. As far as the economic enterprises were concerned, no changes resulted.
Q. Was there any change in the tasks and duties of the DWB through the foundation of the WVHA?
A. No.
Q. Any change in your duties and activities as the Prokurist of the DWB?
A. No.
Q. After the foundation of WVHA did you merely work on questions of civil law?
A. Yes.
Q. Through the foundation of WVHA did the DWB become part of the SS?
A. No, the DWB remained in the same hands in which it had been before.
Q. Were there any changes in the business policy of the DWB?
A. As far as I can judge, no.
Q. Why were the W offices concentrated in Office Group W?
A. Pohl did not want to have to deal with fifty different managers and legal persons. He wanted to deal with eight to twelve because it would not have been practicable otherwise. He had four office groups and economic enterprises. Therefore, he created the W Offices in order to have better coordination of the concern. They were not offices in the sense of government departments.
Q. Were there any changes, after the foundation of WVHA, in your duties as the legal assistant of Staff W?
A. No.
Q. Were there any changes in the duties of Staff W?
A. No.
Q. Did the foundation of WVHA lead to any changes in the allocation of inmates and the working conditions in the concerns of W enterprises?
A. As far as I could judge, no.
Q. What influence did the DWB or Staff W have, after the foundation of WVHA, on the labor allocation of inmates and the conditions under which they worked?
A. Just as little as they had before.
Q. Did Staff W, after the foundation of WVHA, have the task to purchase sites for the establishment of concentration camps, to evaluate them and to find them?
A. No, those tasks were always part of Office A III/2. I wanted to say on Friday that Office A III was not under the charge of Gruppenfuehrer Frank as the chart on the wall says, but under somebody else as a legal expert. As I remember it, Frank only was in charge for one or two months. Gruppenfuehrer Frank was a General and had no idea about legal matters.
Q. Did Staff W, after the foundation of WVHA, have the task to collaborate with Office Group D?
A. No, that was not the task of Office Group W.
Q. How far did you, as a member of Staff W or as the Prokurist of the DVB, after the foundation of WVHA, collaborate with Office Group D?
A. I did not collaborate with Office Group D.
Q. Please take Document NO 1290........
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. (Interrupting) I want to ask the witness one question.
When was DWB established? What year, do you know?
A. I believe, in 1940, but I am not absolutely certain because, at that time, I was not yet with Staff W.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Please take Document NO 1290, which is Exhibit 60, in volume 3, on page 64 of the English Document book.
The Prosecution, when they offered this document, pointed out that this letter to the various commandants of concentration camps was also addressed to Office Group W, and they added that this represented a liaison between Office Group D and Office Group W and the W industries. Why was that letter of 22 November 1943 sent to Staff W?
THE PRESIDENT: What date did you put in the record?
INTERPRETER: 22 November 1943.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you talking about Exhibit 60?
INTERPRETER: Yes, we are.
THE PRESIDENT: Our copy bears the date 22 January 1943.
INTERPRETER: It should be November.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Robbins, which of these dates is right? The first of the documents says: "Oranienburg, 22 January 1943". Later it says: "Mail received 30 November 1943."
MR. ROBBINS: I'm very sorry. I seem to have left my Book 3 in my office. I will check on it at the recess.
THE WITNESS: If Your Honors please, I checked that on the photostat copy and the date in the English book is wrong. The correct date should be 22 November 1943.
THE PRESIDENT: All right.
WITNESS: From this document, no collaboration can be construed because this order was only sent for informative purposes to W. Informative purposes do not amount to collaboration. It merely means that enterprises and offices are being informed which are not actually concerned with this. If that order from Pohl was also sent to Staff W and to the W offices it would not have been submitted to W and to W offices for informative purposes, but directly. Collaboration would also entail that Staff W, in some form or other, would have been instrumental in drawing up the order. This again is not the case which becomes quite clear from the file note "B II".
Q. Can you make a statement on why this letter of 22 November 1943 was sent to W for informative purposes?
A. The letter was sent for informative purposes to the W offices for them to know how long inmates were allowed to work in their enterprises because the enterprises also had civilian employees, and the work done by the inmates and the civilian employees had to concurr. I am bound to assume that similar letters were sent to the private industries which were not under the supervision of the WVHA, so that they would know how long inmates were working for them.
Q. I shall now speak about the next period of time in your service. When you were appointed a personal consultant to Pohl, when did you receive this appointment?
A. At the beginning or middle of May 1942. I am not quite sure of the precise date. Pohl did not want his purely personal matters known all over the office. For that reason, he felt that they should be dealt with only by one single person. I was also to handle Pohl's personal and private matters. A legal expert was needed because a number of legal matters would crop up. Those were the reasons why I was appointed to that position.
Q. What did you do -
THE PRESIDENT: One moment, please. Will the interpreter refer to Exhibit 60, please?
INTERPRETER KURTZ: Yes. We do not have the document, we only have the translation. We are just getting it. I have the document now.
THE PRESIDENT: That is Document 1290?
INTERPRETER KURTZ: Yes, it is.
THE PRESIDENT: The English translation -- just after the address in which the W Offices are listed -- reads: "Message to". Do you see what I mean?
INTERPRETER KURTZ: Yes, I do, sir.
THE PRESIDENT: "Message to Chief, Office W-1,..." and so on.
INTERPRETER KURTZ: Yes, I've got that.
THE PRESIDENT: We are interested in the translation "message to". Is that an accurate translation, does it have any other meaning or possibility?
INTERPRETER KURTZ: I think it should perhaps read "for the information of ". That would be a better translation, I feel.
THE PRESIDENT: All right, thank you.
INTERPRETER KURTZ: Thank you, sir.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: When Pohl appointed you as his personal representative in May 1942, did he outline in writing your duties?
A. No, he only told me orally.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Herr Volk, what were your duties as Pohl's personal assistant?
A. As I said before, I had to handle all private matters of Pohl and those of his family. Also, I had to submit documents for internal circulation which were signed by Pohl as the Main Office Chief. As far as private matters are concerned, I wish to give the Tribunal a brief survey so that the term "personal assistant" (referent) will be correctly understood. For instance, I had to check up on his private bank accounts; I had to remind him of regular payments, his life insurance, for instance; thirdly, I had to remind him of salaries to be paid to him; I had to draw up his annual tax declarations; I had to draw up his will; I had to deal with matters for Pohl's administration of property and money from his first marriage. That type of work took up a large part of my time. As time went on, the circle of people who wanted legal advise grew, demands and requests by relatives and friends who needed legal advise as the war expanded were referred to me. One came along, for instance, and said that his servant girl had been taken away from him. Somebody else said, "My factory is going to be closed." The third had difficulty with the tax authorities. As time went on this work grow to such an extent that it would have fully occupied a solicitor's office.
Then there was those who wanted help, wives of SS men who had been called up, and widows of dead SS men, people who had been bombed out. They were all referred to me. I was to help them all. That was the order which Pohl gave me. He could not receive everybody because he was working from morning until night. These visitors took so much of my time that I could not start on my own work until 4 or 5 o'clock in the afternoon. It was a particularly difficult task because if I did not succeed with the best of intentions to help people, the Sword of Damocles was suspended over me in that these people might go and complain to Pohl about me.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: May I ask a question, please? Witness, this may not be of too much importance, but I am curious just to know the location of your office physically with reference to Pohl's office. Were you actually within the walls of his office or next to it?
A. If Your Honor please, for that purpose I drew a little picture which perhaps my lawyer could submit to you. I made a very bad drawing, not as good as I could have done, namely, the one where I am nearest to Pohl. If you please, my attorney could submit the drawing to you. I was in the same house, but on a different floow. I can explain the drawing. It is important for the reason it shows how keen Pohl was for keeping everything secret.
THE PRESIDENT: I'd like to see it, please.
A. If I may say something about this. This was the location in which I was working in 1944. In 1942, I was three floors above Pohl's office. In 1943, I was a distance of roughly about two hundred meters from Pohl's office, and I'd have to walk across the street for 200 meters until I reached Unter Den Eichen. If I had my drawing back, I could explain it to the Court, how the offices of Pohl were located and where the secret files were situated. Unfortunately, I haven't got the drawing with me, or otherwise, I could do it right away.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Was this a very large building, the one which is depicted in that sketch?
A. Yes, that is the end of this very large building. The whole building was about 300 meters long. It comprised two whole streets. The building went from Unter Den Eichen 126 through 135, and then adjoining there was Schloss Strasse 62 through 65.
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Was all of the WVHA with the exception of AmtsGruppe D located in this structure?
A. I can't give you a uniform answer to this question. One must make a difference between the various years. The building was frequently bombed in the war. In 1942 Pohl intended to have all offices in that building, but the WVHA in 1942 expanded with the result that we were short of space all the time; and therefore, the least important offices were located somewhere else, but on the first of March 1943, and in August '43, and in April '44, the building was heavily damaged in an air-raid, the economic enterprises were transferred to the outside. W-VIII went to Kranichfeld, W-I to Oranienburg, W-II was no longer in Berlin anyway, but in Posen since 1940. Office W-III was transferred to Wannsee, a suburb, and so was W-IV. W-V was taken to Mecklenburg, W-VI was looked after by the Office Chief of B-II. They were always in the same building.
Pohl later on only kept Staff W in the house, and Office Group A-- some of it at least -- and Office Group B. Office Group C was transferred also because SS Obergruppenfuehrer Dr. Kammler wanted to lead a life of his own. From the beginning he was very ambitious and one could see at that time that his aim was to be in charge of a Main Office of his own. He wanted Himmler to establish a Main Office Construction, which is the reason why he always had these many special orders such as V-2 and Aircraft Production from Minister Speer.
That was, roughly, the development, if Your Honor please.
Q. Did the Inspectorate Always remain in Oranienburg?
A. The Inspectorate in Oranienburg, when it became Office Group D always remained in Oranienburg. It had its own building there. There was never an office chief or a part of Office Group D in our building; nor did we ever hear of anything of Office Group D in Berlin. We had, it is true, our own teletype machine in Berlin, but Office Group D had a different teletype which was not connected with us but with the RSHA, and Office Group D, furthermore, had its own wireless network which connected it with the RSHA.
We in Berlin did not have a network of our own.
Now, if I may explain to the Tribunal -
BY DR. GAWLIK: (Counsel for defendant Volk)
Q. Just a moment, if Your Honors please, could we perhaps do that after the recess. I have the other plans outside of the courtroom. I shall obtain them during the recess and then submit them to the Court.
The term "personal assistant" or "referent" -- was that a correct designation for your work?
A. No.
Q. What would have been a better term?
A. A better term would have been "secretary." By a personal assistant, or a referent, I understand a man who is present whenever the chief makes a decision, including all the tasks of Office Groups A, B, C, and D; but I was never present when matters pertaining to Office Groups A, B, C, and D were dealt with.