A Dr. Wilhelm Schneider. This becomes clear from Document NO-1271, which is in Volume XIX on page 67 and it says -
DR. GAWLIK: This is Exhibit 491, if your Honors please.
A It is the business report by Osti on page 2 under "A", "Legal Foundations of Osti". I quote: "The company was formed on 12 March 1943 (No. 169/43 of the Register of Dr. Wilhelm Schneider) and then the contract was drawn up."
Q Please look at Document NO-551, which is Exhibit 382 in Volume XIV on page 5 of the English Book. In that document, Osti is described as a subsidiary company of the DWB, is that correct?
AAlthough Osti is described here as a subsidiary company of DWB, actually it says, "T", which stands for subsidiary company. It is not correct. It is wrong.
Q How do you explain that mistake?
A Whoever made up this list made a mistake. When you look at the document, you must be reminded that it has not been signed. I think it is not entirely unlikely that especially in view of this error Pohl did not sign it.
Q Who would have been entitled to receive the shares, if Osti had been a subsidiary company of DWB?
A That would have had to go the DWB, GmbH.
Q And who was the owner of the shares?
A Pohl with 75,000 Marks and Georg Loerner with 25,000 Marks on a trusteeship basis. This can be seen from Document NO-1271 on page 67 of Volume XIX, Exhibit 491, which we have just discussed. There it says expressly that the capital was decided and fixed at 100,000 Marks by contract. From there Pohl took over 75,000 Marks and Georg Loerner, 25,000 Marks. The capital was paid in 25% in cash.
Q Did Staff W direct the Osti?
A No.
Q Can you give us a reason for that?
A Certainly. First, the first business manager of Osti was SS-Obergruppenfuehrer and Lt. General of the Police Globocnik.
The second business manager was Dr. Horn. Authority to issue orders was placed with the Board of Directors, the Aufsichtsrat. No member of Staff W was on the Board, only high SS officers, such as Pohl, as Chairman of the Board and as his deputy SS-Obergruppenfuehrer and General of the Police and also State Secretary of the Police and the Governor General Krueger. Another member on the Board was SS-Gruppenfuehrer and Lt. General of the Waffen-SS Georg Loerner and SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Dr. Ferdinand Sammern-Frankeneck. When the Board of Directors was changed no member of Staff W was invited but the SS SS Economist in Cracow SS-Standartenfuehrer Schellin. This becomes clear from Document NO-1271, Exhibit 491 in Volume XIX on page 67.
DR. GAWLIK: It is on page 64 of the English Book if your Honors please.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
A This is what it says there. "By a decision of June 1943 this Board of Directors was confirmed: Ministerial Director Oswald Pohl, Chairman, Friedrich Wilhelm Krueger, Deputy Chairman, Georg Loerner of Berlin, Dr. Ferdinand von Sammern-Frankenegg of Warsaw; SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Krueger has resigned as of the 20th of May, 1943. Dr. Ferdinand von Sammern-Frankenegg has left the Board. Newly elected was the SS Economist of Cracow Schellin." Although it says "Schelling" there, it is a mistake.
Second, Globocnik says in his report to Himmler himself that it was he who directed the Osti. That becomes clear from a document in Volume XIX, which is on page 93. It is Document NO-057, which is Exhibit 487. I shall quote. This is what the report from Globocnik to Himmler says, "Osti and the DAW were enterprises which I directed myself, whereas other enterprises, such as the aircraft factory of Heinkel, were only looked after by me." He contrasts here being in charge and looking after a plant. I think that this document is self-explanatory.
Third, as Osti was not a subsidiary company of DWB, it could not be connected by a corporation contract. It was independent.
Fourth, the members of Staff W were unable to give orders to Globocnik as the business manager. He was a Lt. General of the Police, whereas in Staff W the members of Staff W, especially myself, were much lower in rank. Globocnik was under the Higher SS and Police Leaders of Cracow, which was under SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Krueger in disciplinary measures. Therefore, Pohl had to appoint the Board of Directors of Osti in order to be able to give orders to Globocnik.
Fifth, the immediate management of Osti becomes evident from Document NO-1262, which is on page 109 of Volume XIX. It is Exhibit 495. There it expressly states that Pohl directed the Osti himself. It says there by an order of the Main Office Chief of the 23d of March it is hereby ordered -
Sixth, the secret file note NO-519, which is in Volume III on page 75.
DR. GAWLIK: On page 74 of the English Book.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
AAlso shows that Osti was not under Staff W. The 10 labor camps in the Lublin area are being transmuted into concentration camps. The document shows that Dr. Horn had several SS officers, such as Pohl, Loerner, Schellin, and Globocnik. With Dr. Horn they were all present at this meeting, but not one member of Staff W.
Seventh, it is remarkable also that Osti is not mentioned in the office plan of Office Group D under W enterprises, but under K, which stands for Lublin. That becomes clear from Document NO-597, which is in Volume XIII on page 72.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
Q Why was the OSTI liquidated?
A I had no details of knowledge about this. I assume that because Globocnik was transferred to Trieste.
Q Please look at Document NO 1906, Exhibit 493, in Volume XIX, on page 91 of the English Document Book, and Pages 102 and 92 of the English Document Book also. There are two decisions concerning the liquidation of OSTI, dated December 1943, and March 1944. What is the explanation that there are two decisions made?
A In the document on page 92 of the English Document Book, that is legally speaking wrong. Globocnik was not called away as a business manager. Therefore, according to GmbH Law, both Horn and Globocnik were liquidators. Globocnik was not supposed to be a liquidator, because he had been transferred to Trieste. When the Registry Court, or District Court raised an objection on 1 March 1944, a new decision was taken, which is the decision in Exhibit No. 493, on page 91, of the English Document Book. That decision is formally speaking correct in accordance with GmbH laws. There it states under No. 1, expressly, that Globocnik had resigned as a business manager.
Q For what reasons were the books of OSTI handed over to the DWB?
A No special reason applied here. The books according to German Commercial law had to be kept for ten years by the partner. As Pohl did not have room to keep them in his own office, he selected one of his subordinate companies, as according to the document the partner quitting has to name a person who could keep the books, and the DWB were named for that purpose.
Q Did the DWB take over the books?
A No, the liquidation was discontinued by Pohl's order, which becomes clear from Exhibit No. 495. It is in Book XIX of the German book, on page 109 in the German Book, and, I'll just quote from this document: "By order of the Main Office Chief of 23 March, it has been ordered that the OSTI be continued. We request there for to cancel the liquidation of the OSTI at an early date." This document also shows that Court No. II, Case No. 4.the OSTI was immediately under Pohl.
Q Please take Document NO 1271, which is Exhibit No. 491, in Volume XIX, on page 65. When did you hear first of the contents of this report?
A I heard first of this here in Nuernberg.
Q When you worked in Staff-W, or as Prokurist of DWB, or as Pohl's personal assistant, did you hear anything of this report?
A No.
Q Do you know of the contents of the report now?
A Yes, I know it now, of course.
Q Which of the facts mentioned therein were known to you on the basis of your work for the WVHA?
A I can not recall that anything of these facts was known to me. I did not worry very much about OSTI, as the OSTI was always a closed book to me.
Q How can you explain the facts that the contents in the record remained unknown to you while you were with the WVHA?
A I was Pohl's personal secretary, let's call it. I was the expert for dwelling matters. I was in charge of it, and I had the reorganizing of two companies from a legal point, and from 1943 on I was the expert for evacuations. These tasks particularly in the last part of the war overworked me considerably. Then I was also in charge with the legal department of Staff-W and the Prokurist of DWB. I had to distribute dwellings as an expert for the settlement of Zhelendorf. These tasks claimed so much of my time throughout the day that I did not have a moments time to think of or make decisions about other companies, which were not part of my duties. During those years I mentioned I did not even read one book, as so many people came to see me when I was on duty. People who did not know how to be brief and concise. The result was that throughout the day I was busy on conferences, and only after four or five o'clock in the evening did I find the time to dictate my own letters. Then, furthermore, wives of soldiers were calling up, and those of dead soldiers, and bombed out families came, and unburdened Court No. II, Case No. 4.their miseries to me, and asking me to help them, and, as I had to help them I could not cut them short.
Even if I could not help them, at least, I had to find a kind word for them. That was what I had to do. That was my duty.
Q Now, about the Litzmanstadt. When were you there at Litzmannstadt?
A In February 1944.
Q Why did you go there?
A In order to accompany Oberfuehrer Baier. I was to find out what legal status the enterprises were to be given, which were working in the Litzmannstadt Ghetto.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you say Kronstadt. We did not understand what you were talking about?
DR. GAWLIK: No, the ghetto "Litzmannstadt".
THE WITNESS: Litzmannstadt. Lodz it is called today.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q Please continue.
A I was to accompany Oberfuehrer Baier, and was to find out what the legal status of the enterprises were, which were working in the Ghetto of Litzmannstadt. The question whether the Ghetto should be changed into a concentration camp was not part of my duties, that in no way touched upon my tasks. I was not in a position to say anything about that, because I had never worked on a task of that sort. Pohl had his own agency for that sort of thing, as I have said repeatedly, I only looked after matters pertaining to civil law only.
Q Who gave you the orders to go to Litzmannstadt?
A Pohl. Pohl told me he did not have time, that I and Baier had to go together.
Q What was the cause for this trip?
AAs I remember it, an order of Himmler to Pohl to the effect that the economic enterprises of the Litzmannstadt Ghetto were important for the supply of the Eastern Armies, as regard textile and other clothes. Himmler gave the order to Pohl to transfer the enterprises to Berlin, as Court No. II, Case No. 4.Baier told me, Himmler had given the order earlier to transform this Ghetto into a concentration camp.
Q Tell us what you did while in Litzmannstadt?
A In Litzmannstadt Baier and Dr. Horn made negotiations. I was present without taking a particular active part, because the whole problem was unfamiliar to me. Baier said to him that it was impossible to transfer the enterprises to Lublin, because thereby production would be deferred by months. Dr. Horn said in reply that the State Police agency in Litzmannstadt had received the order from Himmler through Office-IV of the RSHA to transform the Ghetto into a concentration camp.
Q What did you think personally of this?
A When I heard I asked Baier whether I could tell him something when he was alone. I knew Baier, and I knew that you could talk more freer with Baier than to any other man. I said, "Oberfuehrer, I don't understand why they should be incarcerated into a concentration camp, because here they are working in the Ghetto and in their own native soil; they are with their families, and also they are not endangering peace and security, because I thought of what the protective custody order said on the basis of the Weimar Constitution in 1933.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
BY JUDGE PHILLIPS:
Q Well, what did you do over there? Did you just listen in and then left without doing anything?
A No, I told Baier, first of all, I didn't understand why Jews should be incarcerated into a concentration camp. Second...
Q (Interrupting) I'm talking about what you did at Litzmannstadt.
A In Litzmannstadt we only inspected the enterprises.
Q Well, did you do anything besides look?
A No.
Q Did anybody else in the party do anything?
A I don't think so. I didn't see anybody do anything.
Q Well, did you see the inmates working there?
A Yes.
Q They were in the concentration camp, inmates, Jews, and were working there?
A They were all Jews and they were working, yes.
Q And they were imprisoned?
A Well, prison is not really the right term because the soldiers, the police, the SS were outside the barbed wire. Inside the barbed wire, there were Jewish policemen and the enterprises were in charge of Jewish foremen. It was a self-administration of the Jews themselves. They did everything themselves.
Q Of course, it was self-administered on the inside, but the Jews were incarcerated in there by the Reich.
A Yes, I heard that the Jews, since 1939, were concentrated in this ghetto but when they made applications to their Jewish administration they could go into the town, but only special Jews were given such permission. This is how it was described to me when I inspected, and the man who explained that to me was the Chairman of the Jewish Administration.
Q We understand what the system of the ghetto was. Now, when you went back did you report to Pohl what you had seen?
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
A Yes.
Q Did you make a written report, or did you make an oral report?
A I made a written report for Herr Baier which is part of the documents here. Then, also, I made an oral report to Pohl. I told Pohl that I didn't understand why Jews should now be incarcerated into a concentration camp on top of everything else. I had no sympathy with that idea. I also told Pohl - I can repeat that verbatim - that Gauleiter Greiser was a terrific crook. He did not even observe the laws which his own Fuehrer had issued because the ghetto, if you observe the Jew laws, the ghetto should have been the property of the German Reich with its machines. Herr Greiser did not take the money for the German Reich but for the Party and thus financed the Party, the NSDAP, which he was not allowed to do, which I put down in this file note here. Pohl said to me: "Don't worry. After the war so many people will be fired whom you are not thinking of now even."
Q So many people will be what?
A So many officers will be dismissed from their high positions after the war.
Q Well, now, while I'm talking to you about this, did Pohl make any reply to you when you told him that you didn't like the setup of the ghetto, that it was wrong, that Jews shouldn't be imprisoned just because they were Jews? What, if anything, did Pohl say in reply?
AAll that Pohl told me was "I shall myself see to it that the Jews will not be put into a concentration camp".
Q Were you with the WVHA in 1943 when Frank left the WVHA?
A Yes.
Q Do you know under what circumstances and for what reason he left the WVHA in 1943?
A Yes.
Q Tell us, please.
AA few weeks before I met Gruppenfuehrer Frank on the stairs and this is what he told me:
"Volk" (or he always said "Dr. Volk") "You look awfully bad this Court No. II, Case No. 4.morning.
Why is that?" I said: "Gruppenfuehrer, I'm extremely worried." "What's going on?" he asked me. "Well," I said, "Unfairly, somebody has denounced me with the Reichsfuehrer SS that I made a statement about Pohl which is not true and Himmler told Pohl, as Pohl himself told me, please send Volk to the front and take all his positions from him." Frank asked me: "What did you say to that?" I said: "Obergruppenfuehrer, if this is an honor, as Himmler maintains, to be sent to the front, then it would not be a punishment to me." And Pohl said thereupon: "I know you, Volk, I don't believe you said this. You stay with us."
That, of course, had poisoned the atmosphere considerably. Having told Frank my reasons, Frank said to me: "Well, Volk, I'm not allowed to say anything either. I'm going to clear out of here very quickly if things continue like this after the war.
Then, later on, two months later, Frank was suddenly transferred to the regular police, and I deduced, from that conversation, that he was glad to go to the regular police.
DR. GAWLIK: Witness, in connection with the Tribunal's question, can you tell us what a ghetto is? What is the difference between a ghetto and a concentration camp?
JUDGE PHILLIPS: We know that. No use to go into that. It's just taking up time.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q Please take Document NO. 519, Exhibit 590. It is a letter of 9 February 1944, in volume 19 of Document Book, page 54 of the German document book. Can one see from that document how you stood at the time?
A No, that document is only a copy which I made about the conversation held between Baier and the officials of the Reich Governor. Baier told me at the time: "Our real attitude I think we'd better not put down in writing because otherwise the Reichsfuehrer will hear about it and we might be in for something", and, therefore, I merely wrote down this conversation as it took place with the Reich Governor. In this document I did not mention the name Baier but I always said "the representatives of the WVHA" because, if something should happen, I could always Court No. II, Case No. 4.say who it was because, after all, in Germany if you did anything for a Jew you had to expect that day after tomorrow you would lose your head.
Q Witness, do I understand you to say that this file is the result of the conversation but does not contain your personal opinion?
A No, I expressed my personal opinion personally to Pohl in the presence of Baier, and Pohl said: "I shall see to it myself that the ghetto will not become a concentration camp." That must have been on the 12th or 13th of February, roughly. Baier had seen Pohl first and he probably didn't quite make his point and so he said to me: "Volk, you come along too. I'll see what I can do about the Ghetto Litzmannstadt when I talk to Pohl. Last time, the Obergruppenfuehrer didn't have the time." So, Baier and I went together.
Q What did you do during the conversation? Did you have any important influence on the course of this conversation? What did you do?
A No, I merely kept the record in order to write it all down later on. I informed Baier on the Jew laws before because that is what he wanted to hear from me. How the Jew legislation was at the time and how the laws had been issued which Baier did not know.
Q Were you asked before a decision was reached during that conversation?
A No.
Q What is your explanation of that, witness?
A Well, Oberfuehrer Baier was the Chief of W, and I had nothing to say in this matter. It was not my task. Pohl had merely asked me to go with Baier and, as no other legal expert was available, to find out what the legal status of these enterprises was.
Q Well, tell us please, witness, the position taken by the other partners of this conversation, compared to yours.
A The people representing the Reichs Governor (Reichsstatthalter) wanted, at any price, that the WVHA would buy the enterprises from the Gau, the NSDAP. They wanted to have 20 million Reichsmarks. Baier simply laughed at them and Baier led the negotiations in such a way that it had to be discontinued, if not completely stopped. He did not want us Court No. II, Case No. 4.to take over these Jewish enterprises.
He did not want to have anything to do with it. One reason was that the enterprises were not very profitable. The other reason was that Baier, on the basis of his personal attitude, did not want to have anything to do with Jews and things of that sort. That is how I met Baier. This is how I got to know Baier. This was why I could talk to him frankly and openly. I must say, if Jews have been saved by the ghetto not becoming a concentration camp, that, to a considerable degree, this was Baier's merit.
Q The Prosecution has maintained that you were among those people in the WVHA who made the attempt to secure the ghetto, with its industrial enterprises and 80,000 Jews, for the Osti. Please give us your comment about that.
A. I had no authority to issue orders nor could I make assertions. I told you already that I only went along in order to find out what legal status these enterprises had. Himmler ordered that the enterprises must be transferred to Lublin, or that it must become a concentration camp. I did not wish to secure anything, I could do so anyway.
Q. Furthermore, the prosecution has maintained that the Reichfuehrer-SS intended to have the Ghetto put under Greiser's authority, is that correct?
A. The Reichsfuehrer had ordered that the Ghetto must be transformed into a concentration camp, which becomes clear from a Document in Volume 19. It is Document No-591. From paragraph 1 of this letter, it becomes clear that as early as 3 December 1943 Himmler, in the presence of Kaltenbrunner, gave the order to transform the Ghetto into a concentration camp and not to transfer the enterprises to Lublin. It is therefore incorrect for the prosecution to say that Himmler wanted to leave the concentration camp under Greiser's authority; whereas, I made the attempt to change the Ghetto into a concentration camp. The letter also shows that no visit of mine was necessary in this respect because the Reichsfuehrer had already issued the order. On the other hand, the Ghetto as an actual fact was not changed into a concentration camp. Himmler, therefore, rescinded his order of February 1943, which is another proof of the fact which I have testified to, that Baier and I, to a smaller degree, were successful in avoiding Himmler's order from being carried out.
Q. Herr Doctor, please take the document which beares the date of 14 February 1944. This is document NO-519, Exhibit 480, in Document Book 19, on page 44 of the English Document Book. Exhibit 480.
THE PRESIDENT: Is that Document 519?
DR. GAWLIK: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: That is Exhibit 490.
DR. GAWLIK: I apologize, Your Honor, it is 490.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. In this letter it says: "The Ghetto in Litzmannstadt is not to be changed into a concentration camp. This was emphasized by Dr. Baier and Dr. Volk in the conversation which we held in the Reich Governor's Office on 5 February 1943," is that correct?
A. Yes, that is quite correct. Oberfuehrer Baier and I were present. As I said before, I only had to keep the record. Oberfuehrer stated at the time that the Ghetto could not be changed into a concentration camp; and this letter again shows that Baier and I talked against the change during that conversation because it says expressly in this letter..... "The Ghetto is not to be changed into a concentration camp." We both emphasized that.
THE PRESIDENT: And it never was changed into a concentration camp, was it?
A. I never heard that it was changed into an official concentration camp.
THE PRESIDENT: It never was, was it, Dr. Gawlik?
DR. GAWLIK: No. As far as I can see from the files, it was not changed.
THE PRESIDENT: I wouldn't spend too much time on it then. This is something that never happened.
DR. GAWLIK: Well, I don't know what the prosecution has up their sleeve
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Robbins is just going to tell you.
MR. ROBBINS: I think the document shows, Your Honor, that SSIndustries were later operated in the Ghetto, and also as a result of the decision that was recommended by Volk and Baier the Ghetto was cleaned out and thousands of Jews were killed.
The issue there was whether or not to run the Ghetto on an economic basis or to wipe out the Jews, and the latter solution was reached.
THE PRESIDENT: I merely meant not to spend any more time trying to prove that the concentration camp was never established because you don't claim that it was.
THE WITNESS: Dr. Gawlik, would you please ask me questions now concerning the statement just made by the prosecution. I can give you an answer there immediately, if you like.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Were the enterprises in the Ghetto of Litzmanstadt enterprises of the WVHA?
A. If the enterprises in the Ghetto were directed by one of the enterprises of the DWB, surely I would have known about that; but I know that, with a hundred percent certainty, not one enterprise in the Ghetto was operated by the WVHA or taken by it. I know equally well that the man who unhappily withdrew himself from answering for his activity by suicide, that was Obersturmbannfuehrer Eichmann. He rang me us and he told me on the telephone -- I really didn't want to speak about that -- as he couldn't contact Baier. I was outside National-Socialism, and I talked against this.
Q. Were the enterprises in Litzmannstadt part of the DWB?
A. No.
Q. Do you know anything about the fact that the WVHA caused any murders in Litzmannstadt, do you know anything about that?
A. No, I think that was what the prosecution said just now. I am not quite sure.
Q. Did you yourself issue any orders?
A. I was not in a position to do so. I have never beaten a single man in all my life, not alone kill anybody.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Robbins will you state your position on this Litzmannstadt Ghetto again so that perhaps Dr. Gawlik and also the Tribunal will get just what your claim is? You stated it a few moments ago, but -
MR. ROBBINS: The documents show a continued connection of the SS-Industries with the Litzmannstadt Ghetto. A later document -- I think that I put in on cross examination of Baier -- shows that the SS-Industries utilized certain of the tools in the Litzmannstadt Ghetto; and further, it is the contention of the prosecution that the issue to be decided by Himmler at the time, that Volk and Baier was sent to Litzmannstadt is to whether wipe out the Ghetto, send the Jews to Auschwitz to be exterminated, or on the other hand to run it on an economic basis, to utilize the Jews in the Ghetto as workers.
THE PRESIDENT: And the latter course was adopted?
MR. ROBBINS: No. The documents show that the Ghetto was not turned into a concentration camp.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
MR. ROBBINS: But the Ghetto was eliminated, that is, the Jews were sent to -
THE PRESIDENT: Lublin, were they not?
MR. ROBBINS: Lublin and Auschwitz.
THE PRESIDENT: And the Ghetto was simply wiped out?
MR. ROBBINS: Whether or not it was reduced to the same level as the Warsaw Ghetto was, I am not sure, but the documents show that a good many of the Jews were sent away for extermination.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, it isn't your theory that the Industries in the Ghetto before it was depopulated were operated by the SS?
MR. ROBBINS: I think the witness is in the best position to say definitely whether that is true. The documents show a connection with the SS-Industries, whether or not they were actually directed and supervised by them, I am not sure.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that, at least, clarifies the issue somewhat. Thank you.
We will take the recess at this time, Dr. Gawlik.
(A recess was taken).
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Witness, now I show you photostatic copy of letter dated 14 February 1944, which is Document NO-519, Exhibit No. 490 in Document Book 19, page 44 of the German and page 59 of the English Document Books. Did you gain knowledge of the contents of this letter?
A. I did not gain any knowledge of the contents of this letter.
Q. I want to draw your attention now to the fact that according to the "re" in this letter, a copy was sent to SS-Oberfuehrer Baier and Hauptsturmfuehrer Volk. What do you have to say about that?
A. That is correct. However, I did not receive that copy. This can be seen particularly from the photostatic copy, which is only signed by Herr Baier. Herr Baier had this letter filed without passing it on to me, or without even informing me of the contents of the letter. Every letter which was submitted to me, and of which I gained knowledge, I always signed with my initials "DRV". This will be shown on all documents here. Therefore, I did not gain any knowledge of this letter. Apart from that, it is stated there, copy to Oberfuehrer Baier and Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Volk. It does not say there, copies. Therefore, only one copy. If Baier signed there, I should have also initialed, but Baier did not inform me of the letter.
Q. I show you a photostatic copy dated 16 February 1944 with the following remark contained on the letter, namely, copy of letter to Oberfuehrer Baier and Volk. Did you receive a copy?
A. No.
Q. Can you tell me why?
A. If I had received the letter, and a copy, I provably would have signed that letter also with my initials "DRV", but Herr Baier had this letter filed to and did not show it to me.
Q. Does that apply to any other letter which was introduced by the Prosecution as Document NO-519?
A. Yes, I did not see a single letter from this entire group of letters. I never did initial a single letter. You can not find my initials. All letters were filed by Herr Baier without his informing me in advance.
Q. Would you please inform me about the letter dated 24 January 1944, in Document NO 519, which is on page 50 of the German, and page 41 of the English. Did you receive copies of this letter?
A. No. In the last paragraph of this letter it is stated that I sent a copy to Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl, of this report, and at the same time Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl sent a "copy to Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Volk with your approval." This letter also is not initialed by me, but Herr Baier sent it directly to the files. Herr Baier did not inform me of this preliminary report either.
Q. After the Prosecution's statements concerning the Ghetto Litzmannstadt, I have a few more questions concerning that. If I understood the Prosecution correctly, it was first alleged that there was a connection between the Enterprise in Litzmannstadt Ghetto and the WVHA. Therefore, I would like to ask you, witness, are there any connections between the WVHA and the factories of the Ghetto Litzmannstadt? Particularly with the DWB, or Staff-W, or in your activity as a personal referent of Herr Pohl?
A. No, I can not tell you that with certainty. I never did hear anything further about it. After I had been in Litzmannstadt, and Herr Pohl had assured me there will be no concentration camp, I gained no further knowledge from the entire matter.
Q Will you please explain to the Tribunal who was in charge of the enterprises in the Ghetto Litzmannstadt, and what kind of enterprises were those?