A. The Litzmannstadt factories were part of the Party Org. of the NSDAP. Leader of the Gaul was Gauleiter Greiser. A certain business nan from Brimen was commercially in charge. His name was Bibo, and he is also mentioned I believe in the document in connection with the report which was contained in Document 519, Document Book XIX, page 60 of the German Document Book. It is stated therein that there was a man in charge of the Ghetto Administration by the name of Bibo, a business man from Bremen, and he was the man in charge of the Gau-Ghetto. Approximately eight or ten days ago I read in a paper that this man by the name of Bibo had been sentenced to death by a Polish Tribunal, and had been hanged. I read that in a paper. This Ghetto was like a ghetto, and it had nothing to do with the WVHA.
Q. Is it correct to say that then the enterprises in the Ghetto Litzmannstadt were not SS enterprises, but rather enterprises of a Gau?
A. Yes, they were enterprises of the Gau. The WVHA had nothing to do with those enterprises. So far as that goes, I would like to add something in reference to a remark which I made concerning Obersturmbannfuehrer Eichmann. It is a letter in Document 519, Document Book XIX, page 48, of which I have no knowledge. On the basis of this letter Eichmann called me up at the at the time, and wanted to talk to Pohl first and then to Baier. I knew from the documents here that Herr Pohl had written to Kaltenbrunner, and I shall quote: "As you can see from this copy enclosed, Herr Reichfuehrer-SS had reached an agreement with Gauleiter Greiser in reference to the Litzmannstadt Ghetto which frees me, i.e. Pohl of any other further competence in this matter. On the basis of this letter, which I did not know of, that Eichmann called me up, and made that remark to me, which remark I rejected before the Tribunal before.
Q. If I understood the Prosecution correctly, it is their contention that you somehow participated more actively along that line, namely, the transfer of Jews to Auschwitz, and to destroy the Ghetto. I would like to ask you, Witness, during the negotiations when you were present, did you ever hear mentioned even one word about the transportation of Jews to Auschwitz?
THE PRESIDENT: Please speak slowly. Wait one moment.
THE WITNESS: In my presence no single word was mentioned about the Jews. If it had been mentioned during my presence, I am sure I would have told Herr Pohl about it. Today I have to state with regret that Herr Pohl although he knew since 1943 that Jews were being gassed, after all, he did hear the Posen speech, pulled me into such a disagreeable thing. Not one single word was said about it in my presence.
Q. Do you recall at those conferences where you were present was, at any time, that anything was said about the Litzmannstadt Ghett's being destroyed?
A. No, not one single word was said about that. That would have been the greatest nonsense. After all, the Ghetto Litzmannstadt was right inside Lodz and part of the city would have been destroyed along with the Ghetto. The city was crowded anyway. Not one single word was said in that connection. As far as that goes, in Document NO. 519, in Document Book 19, page 44, of which I stated before again and again I had no knowledge, it is implicitly stated under C, Herr Greiser is writing to Herr Pohl, that the reduction will be carried out by the special detail of the Hauptsturmfuehrer Bodmann which had been already active before in the Gau. I only heard about this letter now. There was no Herr Bodmann in the WVHA at any time and this man Bodmann is the one who probably carried out the reduction of Jews or extermination.
Q. Did you, at any time up to this date, hear anything about the fact that the Ghetto Litzmannstadt was to be destroyed and the Jews were to be transported to Auschwitz?
A. No, I don't know. I never did hear a word about it.
As far as the tools were concerned, Mr. Defense Counsel, you could also ask me a few questions, you know.
Q. What do you know about any tools which were sent to the Ghetto Litzmannstadt from the SS enterprises?
A. In the cross examination, Herr Baier was shown a letter from the Osti Industry. According to my knowledge, I was not informed about this letter nor did I see it. It is stated in the letter that, from Lublin, tools were being sent to Litzmannstadt by the WVHA. But the WVHA had nothing to do with it.
Q. Doesn't the fact that tools for enterprises were being sent to a ghetto show that there was no intention to destroy the ghetto which statement was made by the prosecution? Namely, the alleged statement that the ghetto was to be destroyed? Isn't that in contrast?
A. Logically, this should be assumed, for, after all, you do not send tools into a ghetto in order to destroy the ghetto at a later date, but rather to have the people work there.
Q. Witness, I shall now discuss the Reinhardt Action. When did you first, during your activity, hear anything about this affair Reinhardt?
A. It was in the summer of 1943.
Q. Take a look at the letter which is dated 6 August 1943, Document NO. 1039, Exhibit 384, contained in Document Book 14, on page 25 of the German and 31 of the English document book. Could you realize and recognize from this letter what the Reinhardt Fund was?
A. This is the letter sent by Dr. Hohberg concerning the uncompleted work of Staff W and under 17 there is the Reinhardt Fund. In this letter I can see that Reinhardt had given a credit to the DWB. Where the money came from, I don 't know.
Q. What did you think the Reinhardt Fund was?
A. The Reinhardt Fund I understood or thought to understand that the state secretary Reinhardt from the Reich Finance Ministry, who was an exponent of the Part and who was a friend of Schwerin von Krusiqk, who was Reich Finance Minister, had placed those funds at the disposal of the DWB. Reinhardt was also known to me from his work and his activity during peacetime for the very simple reason that he introduced in Germany communal administration in the big Reinhardt Reform which was the real taxation reform. He also established the Reinhardt Interest Bonuses. He compiled and wrote several books about taxation laws. Apart from that, all new taxes and finance reforms were actually taken care of by Reinhardt according to both the press and the propaganda. Furthermore, Reinhardt was written with "dt" at the end in this letter and as far as I know today Reinhard is spelled with a "d" at the end rather than a "dt". Apart from that, Herr Pohl once called me to his office, in Frank's presence, and told me that the Reich Finance Ministry wanted to give a credit to the DWB, if this would be possible.
All I could understand from this was that this was actually a fund which was placed at the disposal of the DWB by the second highest official in the Reich Finance Ministry.
BY JUDGE MUSMANNO:
Q. May I ask a question, please?
Is it customary for the name of the Minister to be attached to a purely governmental function?
A. I'm afraid the translation didn't quite get through, Your Honor.
Q. I'll put the question very specifically. The Reinhardt of whom you speak was Assistant Minister of the Treasury? Is that what I understand? Ministry of Finance, yes?
A. Yes, that's right. Graf Schwerin von Krossigk was the Minister. The State Secretary was Reinhardt. Schwerin von Krossigk was the professional man and was Reich Minister even prior to 1933, and state secretary Reinhardt was SA Obergruppenfuehrer.
Q. Anything coming out of the Ministry of Finance wouldn't bear the name of the Minister as such, would it, being a purely governmental operation?
A. Yes, but as I have stated before, the real taxation reform was also called the Reinhardt real tax reform. I have to understand from that if this fund is called "the Reinhardt Fund" that the Reich Finance Ministry placed certain monies at the disposal of the DWB.
Q. I can understand how, in the newspapers, the name could be attached to the operation, but, within the government itself, if it is a governmental action, I cannot understand why the name Reinhardt would be used.
A. Yes, Mr. Federal Judge, such names in particular were chosen. You see, series of actions received the names of leading personalities. The reason why this was done was that the Fuehrer principle was to be shown more clearly by doing that.
In Germany, even in governmental circles, one never spoke of a cabinet or a government, one always spoke of the man.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Witness, perhaps you can answer the following question.
Would you please explain to the Tribunal, witness, the personality of the Finance Minister Schwerin Krossigk and the personality of Reinhardt. Tell us which of the two was the most important person and why it was not at all difficult to understand that fund wasn't called according to the name Schwerin von Krossigk but rather according to the State Secretary? what part did von Krossigk play in social life and what was the role of Mr. Reinhardt in public life?
A. Mr. Defense Counsel, if I, as a rather young person, have to give you a judgment or my opinion on these two personalities I have to say that von Krossigk was the most important one of the two because he was a sensible, professionally very skilled man who, step by step, actually worked his way up to the position of Minister. Even in the democratic regime, Herr Reinhardt, up to 1933, was nothing but a simple teacher in a business school. It was only through the help of the Party that he became a SA-Gruppenfuehrer and SA Obergruppenfuehrer. It was he then who was placed a bit higher as an exponent of the Party, and all these things which von Krossigk had done to the German Reich while working hard, the financing, etc, all this, during the war, was said to have been done by Reinhardt. You could read in the paper: "Herr Reinhardt, and Reinhardt again." Reinhardt held speeches at every conference. The people in the Finance Ministry knew that the real man behind it all was von Krossigk. Others knew that, but we all knew that Reinhardt would be the one credited with everything. That was the reason that I didn't have a single doubt that Reinhardt was the man who had given the fund.
Q. Witness, can you tell the Tribunal something - give us examples where the State Secretary, towards the outside, showed himself much more than the Minister himself?
I am think of the Justice Ministry, for instance.
A. Yes, the Justice Ministry in 1933. The Prussian Justice Ministry, I mean. There was not a single Prussian Ministry up to then where .....
INTERPRETER: (Interrupting): I can't do it. It's just impossible, Your Honor, if he doesn't slow down.
THE PRESIDENT: You must talk more slowly and you must stop between the question and the answer or what you're saying is of no help to you. It isn't properly recorded unless you'll help by slowing down and stopping between the question and answer. There's no use in talking unless we can read it afterwards.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Witness, as to another relationship between the Minister and the State Secretary besides the Justice Ministry - can you tell us something about it?
A. Yes, in the Reich Justice Ministry, Guertner, was the minister; Schlegelberger was one of the greatest German lawyers.
Q. Which one of the State secretaries actually played the real important part? Was it Schlegelberger, or was it the State Secretary?
A. There was a second State Secretary there also Freisler. Freisler was the one who played the most important part. Everywhere you could read the name of Freisler. Schlegelberger's name, for instance-- who was the great commentator--was never mentioned. By the way, Freisler was also the greatest enemy of the young lawyers.
Q. In the Finance Ministry, prior to 1933 were not there also cases where, for instance, certain reforms were not called according to the minister but rather according to the state secretary?
A. Well-
Q. How was it with Popitz?
A. Popitz was the State Secretary in the Reich Finance Ministry. He was the one who issued the Popitzsche Osthilfe Gesetzgebung. That was a special code according to which all the farmers in eastern Prussia and in Pommerania were helped, because, otherwise, they would have become bankrupt. And this Osthilfe Gesetzgebung was also called in honor of Popitz.
Q. I shall go on, witness, and show you again Document NO-1039, Exhibit 384, it is contained in Document Book 14, page 25 of the German and 31 of the English Document book. This is the file note of Dr. Hohberg concerning the incompleted works, and particularly conclusion of the credit contract with the Reich. Did you participate in that credit contract?
A. No, I did not participate in concluding this contract in any way.
Q. Did you know anything about the auditing report which was done by Vogt?
A. No, I had nothing to do with the Reinhardt matters and things in connection with that.
Q. Herr Pohl, in his examination as a witness, testified that upon Himmler's orders the WVHA, as of the first of January, 1944, was in charge of the handling of the Reinhardt Action. Did you have anything to do with that task, witness?
A. Amtsgruppe W had nothing to do with that. I was only active within the sphere of "W".
Q. Who was it that was competent for that, witness?
A. As I found out here in this trial, Amtsgruppe A was competent for those things.
Q. Did the DWB or Staff W contribute in this matter in any way?
A. No, I know nothing about it; nor can I actually think that the DWB or Staff "W" had anything to do with the handling of the Reinhardt Action.
Q. Witness, I shall now show you Document NO-3766, Exhibit 603. Do you have the document, witness? Take a quick look at the document, and give it back to me because I have to ask you a few questions in connection with this document. Those are a few additional documents; its number is 603, and those were shown Herr Baier during the crossexamination.
Did you find it, Your Honor. It is Exhibit 603.
To which company did those enterprises Lublin and Limburg belong? Could you tell me? They are contained in this document.
A. They were part of the Deutsche Ausruestungswerke G.m.b.H, Office W-4, the German Equipment Enterprises.
Q. Did you ever work in Office W-4?
A. Never.
Q. Could you issue orders to the business manager of Office W-4 as a--procurist of the DWB?
THE PRESIDENT: Who signed this letter?
DR. GAWLIK: (Counsel for defendant Volk) Who signed this document? Could you tell me, witness?
WITNESS: Dr. Horn; but that is not the Dr. Horn who used to work with Osti.
THE PRESIDENT: That is a different Dr. Horn?
WITNESS: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: He was with W-4?
WITNESS: Yes, that is correct, Your Honor.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Were you the superior of the Chief of Office W-4, or business manager of the DAW?
A. No.
THE PRESIDENT: This witness's name is not on this letter.
DR. GAWLIK: Well, Your Honor--but I believe that the Prosecution stated that Dr. Volk had such a superior position as a personal referent that he could issue orders to all the chiefs of offices. That is the reason why I have to refute that statement. If the Prosecution can state that this document will not be used against Dr. Volk, I think it is something entirely different.
THE PRESIDENT: How could it be used against him? He didn't write it; he didn't receive it; his name isn't mentioned in it; and he didn't get a copy.
DR. GAWLIK: Well, if that is the Tribunal's opinion-
THE PRESIDENT: Why don't you show him a copy of the London Times, and ask him if he had anything to do with that?
DR. GAWLIK: I didn't quite get that, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: It is just as well, probably. All right, go ahead, doctor.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Witness, I shall now speak about Document NO-4075 which is Exhibit No. 590, Your Honor.
Did you receive that letter, witness?
A. I am afraid I can't recall having received it, but I must assume I did.
Q. Were you competent to deal with that question?
A. No; actually I wasn't. I had nothing to do with the German Slate Oil, G.m.b.H., the name was simply fictitious, by the way.
Q. Who was it that had these examiners for aptitude tests transferred?
A. The examiners were sent in by the special delegate for slate oil production. That was a Reich agency which was under Commissioner Geilenberg. He was the one who initiated the emergency program for the production of gasoline because all synthetic gasoline plants in Germany had been destroyed by air-raids.
Q. With reference to this examiner for aptitude test, was he an inmate or a free person?
A. It was a free person.
Q. Witness, can you state if you had anything to do with that matter? Did you issue any orders or anything of the kind?
A. No, the entire matter with reference to this slate oil company--the production itself was under Herr Pohl personally. As far as I can recall he had repeated conferences with Prof. Krauch who came from I.G. Farben.
Q. Before I finish, witness, I will show you Document NO-3839, which is a letter-- Mr. Robbins, can you tell me the exhibit number.
It is Exhibit 594, Mr. President.
Did you participate in the conference of the 18th of October, 1944, witness?
A. Herr Dr. Gawlik, I would have to see the document before I could tell you.
This document is signed by me, even though it is stated there: "Signature illegible," it was signed by me. I can see that from the dictation mark. It is stated there that a conference took place at Mr. Pohl's office in the presence of chief of W. I couldn't tell you today if I did participate or not. I simply don't remember. From the way it is written up, I would like to say that I did not participate in it because otherwise I would have mentioned the fact that I did participate, and I wouldn't have written; in the presence of Chief W.
Q. Did you make the decision about the transfer of inmates?
A. No, I couldn't. The decision for their transfer was resting only with Mr. Pohl.
Q. Did you participate in any way in this decision?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. What was the reason for your having signed this letter to Maurer, witness, and why didn't you sign the letter addressed to the commander of Auschwitz?
A. In such important matters - I could only sign in the internal communication - Chief W had to sign. That was the reason why this letter which was addressed to the commander of Auschwitz in connection with this matter was signed by Herr Baier. Of course, I do not want to state by that I didn't sign quite a few letters which were also sent to the outside of the building--but in important matters I did not sign.
Q Witness, the coming questions will refer to membership in a criminal organization. At the same time, these will be the final questions. How old were you when you started dealing with political questions?
A It was with the beginning of my studies, that is at 19 years of age.
Q What was your political attitude at the time, witness?
A I was an active member of the Democratic Youth.
Q Were you active in any political way?
A Yes, I was.
Q How were you active?
A I was a member of the German Windhorst Bund, which was a youth organization of the German Zentrum Party, which at the time was the party of Reichs Chancellor Bruening.
Q Who was Windhorst, Witness?
A Windhorst was a Catholic politician at the end of the 19th century, who was the head of the Catholics in the so-called Culture Struggle.
Q Were you a member prior to 1933 of any organization or political party?
A I was a candidate to the membership of the Deutsche Zentrum Party.
Q What were the reason why it became impossible to you to become politically active in this line.
A By the seizure of power by the NSDAP.
Q Would you tell the Tribunal of what importance the 20 January 1933, was for both the cultural and mental activity of the German people, witness?
A The entire cultural and mental and political participation of the entire German people was tuned in with the ideas of the NSDAP, which meant that all organizations were changed to the leadershipPrinciple, all the leading positions were taken over by the socalled "Old Fighters," that is, those men who, prior to 30 January 1933, had joined the National-Socialist Party, and who had been politically active.
Political parties were all dissolved with the exception of the NSDAP. Every political activity which did not quite correspond to the principles of the NSDAP and was in contrast with it was forbidden under the threat of punishment. The German Youth was asked to become politically active in the sense of the NSDAP. Membership to the Party was not sufficient. It was necessary that a person be a member of an affiliate organization of the Party, that is the SS, SA, NSKK, etc.
Q How old were you, witness, on the 30th of January 1933?
A I was 23.
Q What did the then political situation cause you to do?
That is, after the 30th of January 1933?
A During the first few months, I refused to join the NSDAP or any other affiliated organization. However, at the time I was still getting my lawyer's training. I was a so-called Referendar in the courts. I had to work there for a period of three years without getting any pay, in order to enable me to become a lawyer. I wanted to become a lawyer. The judge who was training me, was a member of the Democratic Party until the seizure of power by the Nazis, had also joined the NSDAP in order not to loose his position. He told me verbating that he would advise me very urgently to join the NSDAP, both on amount of my political past and that of my familie. Then approximately two months he often drew my attention to the fact that I should join the NSDAP. On the last day before the Party was closed, on the 30th of April, I joined the NSDAP. My father had been dismined by the NSDAP due to his political activity prior, and my father-in-law, who was a member of the Christian Worker's Union had also been dismined.
Therefore, I cannot state that I joined the Party by conviction.
THE PRESIDENT: What year?
A 30 of April 1933.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q Did you also join any of the affiliated organizations?
A Yes, on the 5th of November 1933.
Q What was the affiliated organization?
A It was the Allgemeine SS, or the General-SS
Q What was the reason for you having joined the SS also?
AAll the young Referendars, as they were called at the time, the lawyers who were practicing toward the end of October were called to go to the Auditorium Maximum of the University, and one of the leaders of the Party spoke to us there. He stated that all the referendars had to join the affiliated organizations of the party. More membership in the NSDAP would not be sufficient, according to him. Those who didn't participate actively would not be permitted to pass the examination for assessors. It was left up to us to join the SA, the SS, NSKK, or the aviators' Corps. Apart from that I was a member of a Student's Corps, which was quite close to the political Catholicism. And they also urged us to join the affiliated organizations of the Party. The first order which was issued by the Associated of Young Lawyers caused me to join the SS.
Q On the basis of the knowledge of the facts which were decisive for your entry in the SS would you as a lawyer say that you joined the SS voluntarily?
A I am of the following opinion. A decision is only voluntary when it is not affected by any outside circumstances and as long as it is not done under duress. Voluntary decision no longer exists when the person concerned isn't free to make the decision in order to avoid both financial and moral damage.
Those were the circumstances at the time which forced me to join the SS.
Q Did you try to resign from the SS, witness?
A Yes, I tried to resign from the Allgemeine SS.
Q Did you succeed in doing so?
A No, I didn't.
Q What was the reason for your wanting to resign from the SS, witness?
A In 1937 somebody reported me by saying that I had secretly gone to the Rhineland and got married in a Catholic church. The trial on the basis of this repeat was quastred, however, because I had told the SS before getting the marriage permission of this fact, that I wanted to get married in a Catholic manner. It was due to this reason that I no longer wanted to stay with my SS unit. I decided to have my name changed from the list of that SS written into the list of the Cavalry-SS.
THE PRESIDENT: Was it forbidden to be married in the Catholic church?
A It was not officially forbidden, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, would that be a reason for making charges against you?
A If I would not have stated it on the fragebogen which had been submitted to me, then they would have started a trial against me, but I stated in the fragebogen that I was going to get married in the Catholic manner. When the official act of marriage had taken place in Berlin, and when I drove to the Rhineland together with my young wife in order to get married in a convent, the SS-men who were members of my unit assumed that I didn't want to tell the SS about it. Whereupon they sent a report to the highest SS leader in Berlin. A trial was started against me before I was even given a hearing.
Well, of course, I refuted that when I finally got my questionnaire, and I showed it to them. Therefore, I must state now officially that it was not forbidden to get married in a Catholic church.
THE PRESIDENT: The thing you were to be tried for was getting married in the church without getting the permission of the SS?
A No, not quite.
THE PRESIDENT: What did you do that was wrong, that is what I am trying to find out.
A I have done nothing wrong.
THE PRESIDENT: What did they say you had done, what did they try you for?
A Because they assumed that I had not told the SS -
THE PRESIDENT: Told the SS what?
A That I was going to get married in the Catholic church, it was assumed by a few of the SS men that I didn't tell the SS about it; and if I had not told them about it, they would have started a trial against me.
THE PRESIDENT: And did you have to tell the SS that you were going to get married in the Catholic church?
A Yes, indeed. However the question on the questionary was: "Do you intend getting married in church", and I wrote, "Yes, in the Catholic church."
THE PRESIDENT: Well, suppose you had said, "Well it is none of your business." Could they have done something to you?
A Well, I don't know. May be so, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, could they have stopped you from getting married wherever you wanted?
A No, they couldn't. May I would have been dismissed from the SS, and then I would have died sorially, because I would have lost my position, I would have been put in the street without a job.
I would have become a common laborer because after all, I was w working in a state position, I had a state position, civil service.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, had you finished, Dr. Gawlik?
DR. GAWLIK: No, Your Honor, I had a few more questions, possibly 15 minutes or so, then I have a few questions as defense counsel for Dr. Bobermin.
THE PRESIDENT: We will resume at 9:30 tomorrow morning.
(The Tribunal recessed until 0930 hours, 29 July, 1947.)
Official Transcript of Military Tribunal II Case IV, in the matter of the United States of America, against Oswald Pohl, et al., defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 29 July, 1947, 0930-1630. Justice Toms, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal II.
Military Tribunal II is now in session. God save the United States of America, and this Honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the courtroom.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q Witness, before the recess yesterday afternoon you spoke about the difficulties which you had with your sturm, with your unit. Was it after that you turned in a request for resignartion, and it was not approved? Now what did you do after your request for resignation was not approved?
A I had myself transferred to another unit, and I did that upon suggestion of some of my colleagues, I was transferred to the Standarte of the Mounted-SS.
Q When was that?
A I believe it was in the middle of 1937. In the meantime I had started to earn money, the activities in the Mounted-SS cost me some money, and I was in a position to pay, therefore.
Q What was your highest rank in the Reiter-SS, witness?
A I was Unterscharfuehrer. As compared with a military rank this amounts approximately to the rank of a NCO.
Q Will you tell us your promotions with the dates also while in the Waffen-SS?
A I was conscripted as an SS man; in the month of March 1940, I became an Unterscharfuehrer, that is a corporal. Then in the middle of July 1940 my rank was adapted to my education and I became an Untersturmfuehrer of the Waffen-SS. In September 1941 I became Obersturmfuehrer, that is 1st Lieutenant, and, in the Autumn of 1942 I became Hauptsturmfuehrer, that was my highest rank.
Q Were you at any time a staff officer in the Waffen-SS?
A No.
Q Did you have a higher or lower rank than your co-defendants, Witness?
A Out of the seventeen SS members who are sitting here as defendants, I and Hauptsturmfuehrer Sommer have the lowest rank out of all of them.
Q Were you an active officer of the Waffen-SS?
A No, I was not. I was a reserve officer.
Q Will you describe to the Tribunal the difference between an active and a reserve officer in the Waffen-SS?
A The leaders in the Waffen-SS who were active SS-officers, make it their profession, which profession they do not only perform during peacetime, but also during a war. The reserve leaders have a different career. Their activity in the Waffen-SS is linked to the time during the war. After the end of the war they are no longer soldiers and work in their own civilian profession again.
Q Were you a fulltime SS-Fuehrer?
A No.
Q Will you describe to the Tribunal the idea of a fulltime SSleader, or an SS-officer?
A The fulltime SS-officer only exists in the General-SS. He is working with the SS all day long, and is being paid by the SS. What I mean to say, he has no other professional career besides that one.
Q What was the reason for your not having the position of a fulltime SS-officer, Witness?