A. That company was to take the works from the Oil Slate Research Company after two years, after the patent had been tested and the plant was running.
Q. Who were the partners of that company?
A. Pohl was the first trustee, and I had to take over because Loerner was not available.
Q. Did that company start its work?
A. No, it did not even open any books. It did nothing at all. I said yesterday it was sort of a cloak, which has been translated by shares. It was quite wrong. By cloak we mean the establishment of a legal body which no longer actually does any work, or which never has done any work.
Q. Did the Oil Slate Research Company GmbH employ inmates?
A. No.
Q. Then you described yesterday the incident about the epidemic. Where did it break out?
A. I believe it had been in Erzingen in Wuerttemberg. It occurred with the Oil Slate Research Company. Not with a company belonging to DWB.
Q. Then following that up you were asked the question, after you had discussed the epidemic, that you had an important position in the Slate Oil Company and you answered the question in the negative. What do you mean by that?
A. By that I meant the Oil Slate Research Company, because the German Slate Oil Company GmbH did not exist at any time, did not exist, so, therefore, I could not have any important position with that company either.
Q. Therefore, your answer was correct, and you still maintain it?
A. Yes.
Q. Will you tell the Court why you became a partner with the Slate Oil Company GmbH, which did not do any work at that time and which in particular did not employ any concentration camp inmates?
A. The "dummy" (strawman) for these things was Loerner.
Q. Excuse me for one moment. Why did you have to have a "dummy" (strawman) at all?
A. According to the GmbH law you have to have two partners at least. Excuse me a moment, I have not finished yet.
Q. Please continue.
A. Once you have entered a company in the registry, one partner can sell his share to the other partner. The company thereby becomes a one man enterprise. This is the usual thing to do under German commercial law in order to by-pass the regulations that you have to have two partners. The highest Supreme Court of the Reich Court, the German "Reichsgericht", has acknowledged this process as legitimate.
Q. Is it correct that the companies of the DWB concern really became a one man show.
A. Well, in the final analysis they were a one man show. Pohl wanted that. Pohl stood up for the Fuehrer principle, even in the economic life, and for this reason Dr. Salpeter made these suggestions to him. He did not only want to ride the military horse, but he also wanted to ride the commercial law horse, for which reason the DWB GmbH in the final analysis was a one man show. The sole partner was Pohl as its trustee or Fuehrer Principle.
Q. Did you pay in the sum of five thousand marks, which was entered as capital there from your own private property?
A. No.
Q. Do you know who paid this money in at all?
A. I have no idea. I assume the Reich. The Reich Exchequer. That does not mean the exchequer of Office Group A but that which was in Pohl's office. Pohl had certain Reich funds at his disposal for these smaller things.
Q. Is it, therefore, correct to say that only formally you became a partner of the Slate Oil Company GmbH in order to observe the regulations through the by-passing of the regulations of the German commercial law?
A. That is quite correct.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, we will recess until 1:45.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will recess until 1345 hours.
(A recess was taken until 1345 hours, 30 July 1947.)
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1345 hours, 30 July 1947).DR. VOLK - Resumed RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) The Marshal:
Persons in the Court room take your seats, please.
The Tribunal is again in session.
MR. ROBBINS:
Dr. Gawlik just called my attention to the fact that I had not given an Exhibit number to the trade register certificate of the German Schiefer-Oil Company. I will mark that as Prosecution Exhibit No. 620. No, it hasn't been translated, your Honor. I will have that done.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q Witness, I am now going to hand that document to you. It is Exhibit No. 620, and in order to correct the record, please read to us the list from page 3.
A List of the partners of the Schiefer-Oil Limited Company. Name, status; DWB an enterprise with limited liability. Below that syndicus Dr. Leo Volk; then we have the DWB with limited liability 95,000 Reichsmarks, Syndicus Dr. Leo Volk, Berlin, 5000 Reichsmarks.
Q Thank you, that is sufficient.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
Q (By Dr. Gawlik) That was the company that had not even taken up its activity at all, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Now, besides these two companies there was an assignment of which Pohl was in charge with regard to the Schieferoel Company and the production of slate oil?
A Yes; that is correct. Pohl had been ordered by Himmler to take care, as plenipotentiary of the production of slate oil in order to supply the Waffen-SS and the Army at home with oil. In the year 1944, after the plot which took place in July, Himmler had become the Commander in Chief of the Army at home. That becomes evident from Document 3893, and I quote: "In consideration of the fact that the Reichsfuehrer-SS has appointed Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl for the supplying of the Waffen-SS and the Army at home with oil produced from oil slate, and had made Pohl personally responsible for the production of slate oil."
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Did you say this company was the one which never operated, Deutsche Schieferoel-Gesellschaft?
A Yes, your Honor; that is correct.
Q And this was an entirely different company than the other?
A The other company was the Oil Slate Research Company.
Q That was a company which was trying to find the process for making oil out of shale?
A Yes.
Q It was only a research company, a scientific company?
A It was a research company, and at the same time, in connection with this, it was a production company. At that time we agreed that a production company would incur severe losses since the production was in its early stages. As far as the production of oil from the slate was concerned, it was still in its very first stages.
Q Well then, this second company in which you were described as syndikus never produced any oil?
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
A No, never, your Honor.
Q Did it employ any workers?
A No.
Q Well, the workers that are described in the document, and the difficulties about the weather and the earth slipping, you know which document I mean?
A Yes, your Honor, I do.
Q Those were workers for the research company?
A Yes, these workers were employed by the Slate-Oil Research Company, and Dr. Sennewald was in charge of it. His name has been mentioned here in one of the documents. He was the collaborator of Professor Krauch.
Q Were you connected in any way officially with the research company?
A No.
Q Was your name in the official papers of the Research Company like this (indicating)?
A No, my name was never mentioned there at all. I did not hold any position there.
Q And that was a Reich enterprise, was it not?
A Yes, it was an enterprise owned by the Reich. It was subordinated to the Reich Office for Economic Development. That was an agency of the Four-Year Plan, which was subordinated to Hermann Goering.
Q And with that you had no connection yourself?
A No, I had no connection with that whatsoever.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: Didn't the whole program include ten oil companies that never produced oil?
THE WITNESS: I didn't hear the translation, your Honor.
(Translation repeated.)
THE WITNESS: I believe there were ten companies, your Honor. All of them belonged to the Oil-Slate Research Company.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q In connection with this question I want to show you once more Court No. II, Case No. 4.Document NO-3901. It is Exhibit 608.
Do you have that document before you?
A Yes.
Q This is a file note about the contract. In what capacity did Pohl participate in that discussion?
A He participated as the plenipotentiary for the supply of the Waffen-SS and the Army at home with oil slate.
Q Who was Dr. Sennewald?
A Dr. Sennewald was a plant manager, and he was the commissioner of Professor Krauch for the Oil-Slate Research Company.
Q Who was Captain von Kruedener?
A Captain von Kruedener was in the staff of the Reich Commissioner for the Gasoline Supply, Geilenberg. He wore an air force uniform. He was the liaison officer to Pohl. Just what he did in detail, I don't know.
Q Who was SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Jacobi?
A SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Jacobi was an officer on the staff of Pohl. Later on he was - later on, after two years, he was to enter the Oil Slate Company. However, he was not to be an executive there.
Q And in what capacity did you participate in that conference?
A Pohl wanted me to attend the conference so that I could take care of the record.
Q Who was responsible for the transfer of inmates to the Oil Slate Research Company?
A That was Office Group D, Maurer. Furthermore, in the file plan of Office Group D which has been submitted here by the Prosecution, in one of the documents, and among the firms there we have the Oil-Slate Research Company. That is a fact which shows to us that this company operated and that it received inmates.
Q And when this epidemic broke out with the Oil-Slate Research Company, who would have been competent for the measures which had to be taken?
A The Oil-Slate Research Company immediately should have turned Court No. II, Case No. 4.to Office Group D. They should not have turned to D-II, but Office D-III.
They should have turned to Lolling. However, they turned to Dr. Hoffmann instead, and as I have already stated in my cross-examination, here we are not concerned with clarifying the field of competence, but we had to take action. That is why he requested me to immediately try to get an appointment for him with Pohl. I did that. The man who furnished one truckload of drugs was SS-Gruppenfuehrer Blumenreuter. I thought of the name later on. At the moment he is at liberty.
Q Did you have the right to make decisions about the transfer of inmates to the Oil-Slate Research Company? I repeat the question. Did you have any right to make decisions about the transfer of inmates to the Oil-Slate Research Company?
A No.
Q Could you have prevented their assignment?
A No.
Q In connection with this document you were asked by the Prosecution whether you had ordered Sommer to send seventy-nine guards to that locality. You answered this question in the negative, and then you were trying to add something.
A It was late in the evening, approximately between seven and eight. The adjutant was not in his office any more. I myself went into the antechamber of Pohl, and I wanted to tell the adjutant that I was leaving. Pohl saw me and he told me, "Dr. Volk, seventy-nine guards have to be sent immediately to Erzingen. Please make a phone call to Office Group D at Oranienburg. This must be done immediately." Then I returned to my office, and then I made a long-distance call to Oranienburg. However, nobody was in the office any more at Oranienburg, and I was only able to talk to Hauptsturmfuehrer Sommer. I was able to talk to him. Sommer told me that he was not competent for that order. I told him that the matter was urgent and that he should accept the telephone call and that he should inform the competent officer. That was the state of affairs at the time.
Q Was this an order which you gave to Sommer; was this an order on your own initiative?
A. No, I just passed on the order from Pohl to Sommer.
Q. Why did Pohl ask you to pass on this order?
A. Because there was nobody also around.
Q. Was that actually part of your work?
A. No, the adjutant had to do this work usually. In all the 14 boxes containing my files, you won't find any other order of that kind.
Q. I am now coming to Document 3892, Exhibit 609. An now, I come to Document 3902, Exhibit 610. Do you have these documents. It is document 3892, Exhibit 609; 3902, Exhibit 610. Have you found the documents?
A. Yes.
Q. Was this qualification expert an inmate or a free worker?
A. He was a free worker.
Q. What was his task?
A. The Oil-Slate Research Company feared at first that they would not have sufficient amount of experts in order to fulfill their tasks. For this reason, a man who was an expert on oil-slate was needed who was to select several engineers from the inmates. This qualification expert was to contact the then Standartenfuehrer Maurer. As a result of the fact, however, that the Russians had occupied Estonia and since the Oil-Slate companies there had been dissolved, and all Estonians had escaped from the Russians, the Oil-Slate Research Company afterwards had so many experts at their disposal that it was unable to find work for all of them. Consequently, it was not necessary anymore, for the qualification expert to do his work in Oranienburg, that is to select the inmates who had any specific knowledge with regard to oil-slate production.
Q. Is it therefore correct that the classification officer actually never carried out his work?
A. No, this qualification expert never carried out his work.
Q. Did you order this qualification expert to be given that assignment?
A. No.
Q. Did you see to it that inmates were selected?
Court No. II, Case No. IV
A. No, no inmates were selected.
Q. For what reason did you carry out this activity at all?
A. Pohl told me that I was to write to Hauptmann von Kruedener or that I was to write to Mauer to see if he had a qualification expert at his disposal, and that is why I wrote to Mauer.
Q. I have one more question with regard to the guards which were furnished. Were the 79 guards actually sent to Erzingen?
A. I don't know that. I can't tell that, but I assume that they were sent there.
Q. In your cross examination the question was further put to you whether you had an executive position in a company where inmates were employed; and you answered this question in the negative, is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Then the prosecutor put to you that you were a member of the board of supervisors in Golleschau?
A. Yes, that is also correct.
Q. Please describe to the Tribunal, first of all, the tasks of the board of supervisors according to commercial law and with consideration of the point of view of whether this activity can be considered to be an executive activity.
A. We have a board of supervisors in the A.G. law and the GmbH Law. The GmbH law did not carry out the Fuehrer Principle because no new law had been worked out yet. This was prevented by the outbreak of the war. The stockholders law dates from the 30th of January 1937. It was to be brought completely into line with the Furhrer Principle. However, the economic circles opposed this measure because they alleged that the Fuehrer Principle could not be used in the economy, at least not to the extent as it had been done in the Reich government or as the Leadership of the Third Reich wanted it to be in politics. Therefore, on the 30th of January 1937, a new stockholders law was issued. The stockholders law determines the authority of the board of supervisors. It states that the Court No. II, Case No. IV board of supervisors can check the books of the companys and the objects owned by the company, the treasury, the bonds, and goods on hand, and so on.
And then, they can charge individual members with certain tasks. Then comes the second paragraph and that states explicitly: Measures of the business management cannot be transferred to the board of supervisors. Therefore, a member of the board of supervisors cannot carry out any business. That is the German stockholders law which was in existence then. In addition to this, in the companies which were under the supervision of the WVHA, Pohl carried out the Furhrer Principle. With the exception of the Golleschau Company, he never ordered any meeting of the board of supervisors to take place, nor did he ever attend any. He made all the necessary decisions with the business managers whenever he had discussions with them. No board of supervisors was ever consulted, but Pohl gave the orders.
Q. In this connection I have one more question about the SchieferOel GmbH. The following question was put to you, with reference to the document which I just showed to you, the files of the local court at Berlin. "This same document shows", that was the question, "that you and Pohl carried out the appointment of the business manager." You answered this question briefly with "yes". I now want to ask you: Did Pohl discuss the matter with you before, as is customary, or as is necessary between two partners? Die he ask you who was to become the business manager, or did he just give the order and you had to agree with him?
A. I answered the question in the affirmative because according to commercial law it is necessary that formally I had to assist in the appointment of a business manager, because I, so to speak, was a dummy, I was one of the partners. In fact, however, the state of affairs was different. Pohl didn't ask me about this matter, not did Pohl ask me for my consent. Pohl was the general, and I was a captain. I had been conscripted into the Waffen-SS, what also could I do. After all, I have received one single penny for my activity which I carried out there, that activity.
Court No. II, Case No. IV
Q. Can we say, therefore, that you together with Pohl appointed the business manager?
A. According to penal law, if you want to judge it from that aspect, I must say no. If you look at the question from the civil law, then I must say yes. That is my opinion.
Q. In this connection you were also asked: You say that you were one of the founders, and that you invested some capital, and then you were asked some other questions so that you did not answer this particular question. --Just a moment please -- Usually when a company is founded, who provides the capital?
A. Well the persons who found it.
Q. Was that the case here?
A. No.
Q. Why was it different here?
A. Because I didn't have any capital. Furthermore, I wouldn't put any money into a company from which I would not get any profits.
Q. Do you know who provided the funds?
A. I assume that the German Reich provided the funds. But not from Treasury A. After all, Pohl had funds which he would draw from.
Q. Did you put the capital into the company as is usual with companies? Did you even care about that?
A. I didn't even see anything about it.
Q. You were further asked the following question: You also were a Syndikus in the Slate-Oil Company, is this question correct?
A. No.
Q. Did you work -- were you supposed to be a Syndikus for the SlateOil Company?
A. THE PRESIDENT: This isn't redirect examination, Dr. Gawlik, this is just going over his direct examination, repeating it. He's been asked all of these questions by you in the first instance, when he first went on the stand.
DR. GAWLIK: Your Honor, this is a question which was asked in the cross examination.
I just quoted it, I didn't ask that question.
THE PRESIDENT: About the Syndikus?
DR. GAWLIK: I had the question written down in shorthand, and it reads -- you were also a Syndikus in the Slate-Oil Company.
THE PRESIDENT: And he said no.
DR. GAWLIK: And then he replied, the title also goes along with me. That is why I wanted to discuss the matter once more. That wasn't a question that I asked in the first instance, Your Honor.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, Mr. Robbins asked him the same question: Were you a Syndikus in the Slate Oil Company? He said no; didn't he?
DR. GAWLIK (Counsel for defendant Volk): Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Now you ask him, "Were you a Syndikus in the Slate Oil Company?" And he says, no.
DR. GAWLIK: Well, that was only a preliminary question, Your Honor. Then other questions were asked the witness and he was interrupted.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, don't even ask the preliminary questions all over again; and, by the way, didn't you just show me a document in which he was in the Slate Oil Company with 5,000 Reichsmarks?
DR. GAWLIK: Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Then you ask him whether he was in the organization, the Slate Oil Company, and he says, no; and you showed him that document.
DR. GAWLIK: Yes, Your Honor, but-
THE PRESIDENT: I know what is in it. Apparently he doesn't.
DR. GAWLIK: Mr. President, from the questions which the Prosecutor put, I had to conclude that this point had not yet been clarified. The Prosecutor asked the witness "And, therefore, you also were a Syndikus in the Slate Oil Company." And then the witness replied, "The title always goes along with me." And then the Prosecutor continued his question, "What did you do in the Portland Cement Company as a Syndikus?"
THE PRESIDENT: Portland Cement Company...?
DR. GAWLIK: "Nothing." And he continued to ask, "Did you get paid as a Syndikus?" And from that I concluded that the title of Syndikus which the witness had, and that his relationship to the Slate Oil Company and to the Portland Cement Company, has not been clarified.
If the Tribunal understands it, then I will be able to conclude this question. The witness did not do anything there, and he didn't carry out any activity there.
THE PRESIDENT: That is just what he told Mr. Robbins, that he Court No. II, Case No. 4.didn't do anything, and that he didn't get paid.
Isn't that true?
DR. GAWLIK: Yes, Your Honor. But if he didn't do anything, why was the question asked? "Were you paid for that?"
And then the witness wanted to explain his position to the matter and he stated, "I will be able to explain that to you in the redirect examination." And now I want to give the witness the opportunity to explain whatever he wanted to tell us. I want to give him the opportunity now.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you mean about a Syndikus in the Slate Oil Company or the Portland Cement Company?
DR. GAWLIK: I mean his position as a Syndikus in both. I want to show that he was not a Syndikus in any of these companies.
THE PRESIDENT: Well? that is the same answer that he gave to Mr. Robbins. He said he never was; my name was there, I didn't do anything and I didn't get paid. Now, he will tell you the same thing, won't he?
DR. GAWLIK: I only wanted to ask whether the witness wanted to add something to his previous testimony.
THE PRESIDENT: That is what I am afraid of, you see. I am afraid how far you will go when he adds something. Well, all right, go ahead and ask it. But I am going to stop him very soon.
Go ahead and ask him what it was he wanted to add. Go ahead.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q Do you want to add anything to your previous testimony, witness?
A Syndikus was a title-
THE PRESIDENT: That I heard nine times. Now go ahead. Next.
WITNESS: As a board of supervisors, we had nothing to say; we had no authority. Just as was the case with the Reich Government, the cabinet did not have a voice either, but orders came from above, the orders came from Adolf Hitler-
THE PRESIDENT: Do you remember? He said that same thing about the Reich Cabinet before.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
DR. GAWLIK: Your Honor, I am now going to another point.
THE PRESIDENT: Good.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q And then, in your direct examination, you were asked about your trip to Switzerland, and you were asked about what information you gathered there about the concentration camps. You then told us about your discussion with Pohl, and then you gave us half a sentence: "And especially since the commandant Loritz--" And then you were interrupted. Please continue this sentence now.
A Since the commandant Loritz had already been dismissed from his office in 1942 by Pohl, I had to assume that this was a false report, and I believed Pohl that this article in the newspapers was written in line with the enemy propaganda. That is all I wanted to say.
Q In order to clarify the matter, when did Loritz get dismissed?
THE PRESIDENT: We have got that very statement in our notes here. We must have heard it before.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q I am now coming to Document 1292. It is Exhibit 46. Just what statement is contained in that document?
A It says "Information Copy to Office Group W, in the same building." That is to say, Office Group W actually had nothing to do with this matter. They only received an information copy.
Q Now, please take a look at the list which, when the document was circulated, you did not look at. Please take a look at the last number, the last figure contained in that list... "61 Danzig Stutthof." Yes, what is written there?
A Five thousand prisoners of war.
Q Are the prisoners of war listed in the last figure there? And what becomes evident from that?
A Well, it becomes evident that all the others were inmates but near Stutthof there was a big prisoner of war camp which was subordinate to the commander-in-chief of the Army and the chief of the prisoner of war service.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
Q Construction brigades have been mentioned in this document. Can you please tell us the tasks of these construction brigades, and how these construction brigades were organized? After all, they were to employ these inmates and the prisoners of war.
A The construction brigades were subordinated to the chief of Amtsgruppe C, Dr. Kammler. They were brigades, that is to say companies or battalions or other units which consisted of inmates and other workers. They were always used whenever emergency repair work had to be carried out. For example, when railway lines had been bombed, or whenever houses had been bombed. They never stayed at one place permanently. That is all I know about the matter. Since I had nothing to do with the matter I have no further information about it.
Q You stated today in the cross-examination that Office A, amongst other things, had to work on conscription. Who conscripted the members of all branches of the Wehrmacht, including the Waffen SS?
A That was the army corps area. However, when they were conscripted, then, of course, their records were sent to the agency where they served as soldiers. That is what I meant. Since I was conscripted as a soldier, my personnel files were in the hands of SS Brigadefuehrer Fanslau, who was the Chief of Office A-5.
Q Do you have Document NO-1027, Exhibit 613 which was submitted this morning?
A No, I don't have it.
Q Well, I am going to hand you this document now. Was this purchasing contract ever concluded?
A No, this becomes evident from Document-
THE PRESIDENT: Don't repeat it! He told us that this morning. It was never completed, and he proved it by the document that he is now looking at.
DR. GAWLIK: Very well, Your Honor.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q I am now handing you Document NO-4086. It is a letter of the 15th of December, 1942, which was submitted this morning. In what office Court No. II, Case No. 4.was Finke working, who signed this letter?
A He worked in Office C-2.
Q Please read into the record the sentence in parentheses.
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute! Are you talking about Exhibit 618, signed by Finke?
DR. GAWLIK: Yes, Your Honor. I haven't received my document back yet. It is Exhibit 618.
THE PRESIDENT: Give him the document please.
DR. GAWLIK: Yes, it is Exhibit 618.
THE PRESIDENT: Now, why do you want him to read any part of it? The whole document is in the record. The whole document is in the record. Here it is.
DR. GAWLIK: I want to ask one question in connection with the sentence which I want the witness to read.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, don't have him read it. Ask him the question.
Q. (By Dr. Gawlik) Does this document show that a part of the money was to be used for the settlement and was that the settlement which you had to deal with?
THE PRESIDENT: Wait a minute. Give me that -- The question doesn't mean anything to me. What is it that you want to know? Ask him again, if you please.
DR. GAWLIK: I want to show, Your Honor, that the witness only assisted in the work in the Stutthof matter, because he was interested in the settlement there.
THE PRESIDENT: He told us that this morning. Don't you remember? He told us that all he was interested in -- was the building settlement.
DR. GAWLIK: Yes, and that was also shown by this document which was submitted today.
THE PRESIDENT: When you come to the argument, you can say that. You can prove that.
DR. GAWLIK: Well, he worked on it and, of course, he has better knowledge about that than I have; that is why I wanted to have this fact confirmed by him as a witness.
THE PRESIDENT: You want him to make your argument on this point.
DR. GAWLIK: No, he was to confirm that as a witness, on the basis of the document.
THE PRESIDENT: All right.
A. Yes, I was to receive the money for the settlement as soon as the contract had been concluded.
Q. Is that shown by the document?
A. Yes.
Q. In what sentence?
A. It says that it has been discussed here and that the money would be furnished for the SS settlement program in Danzig.
Q. Very well. I am now coming to another point, the medical experiments. What do you know about the activity of Dr. Vaernet?
A. I knew that Dr. Vaernet worked in the laboratory of the German Heilmittelex, G.m.b.H., and I knew that he was experimenting on a process.
I didn't know anything else about it.
Q. Did you know Dr. Vaernet?
A. No, I have never talked to him. I have never seen him.
Q. Did you have any knowledge of the process on which he worked there?
A. No.
Q. Did you hear any details about his method?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever hear that for this purpose concentration camp inmates had been used?
A. No.
Q. Do you know that in the opinion of Swiss Physicians this method of Dr. Vaernet were not an experiments, but that this was just a sort of medical treatment which has been discussed in detail in medical science?
A. Yes, I think it has been discussed in the Medical Trial.
Q. What do you know about the laws which existed in Germany about the confiscation of Jewish owned property?
THE PRESIDENT: It's the book. It's the same book. I think I know the section number, the paragraph number. No, I am afraid to gress. I think it was 282. Right?
DR. GAWLIK: Yes, Your Honor.
THE WITNESS: Your Honor, if I would have to give a lecture about that, it would take up five hours.
DR. GAWLIK: Now my final question.
Q. (By Dr. Gawlik) Now my final question. Were all Jews in Germany put in concentration camps during the war?
A. No.
Q. For example, in Berlin were there still many Jews left who were not put into concentration camps?
A. Yes, in 1944 on a Jewish holiday in Kaiser-Allee in Berlin, I saw a very large number of Jews. They must have come from some sort of a meeting and, after all, they could be recognized because they wore the yellow stars, the arm bands, and I know from the letters that my mother sends me from Berlin that a large number of Jewish families are now living in Berlin.