Q. Did you consider these retaliatory measures which had been military law?
A. The continuous arson, explosions, attacks and murders, and
Q. In the document just cited it says, in the continuation of the above mentioned citation, I quote:
"In collaboration with the Gruppen staff and to commandos of the September, 33,771 Jews."
Is this figure 33,771 Jews, correct in your opinion?
A. In my opinion this figure is exaggeratedly high.
Q. In the case of the people who were executed, were they ex clusively Jews?
A. I don't know that.
Q. Did the exact numbers of executees -- did they ever become known?
A. He, they never did become known exactly. A lot of guess work best.
As a basis for his figure, the evacuated apartments might have
Q. How many members of SK 4-a took part in this execution, who had been ordered to do so by the Higher SS and Police leader?
A. As far as I remember, according to the number of people then
Q. Were these 15 men joined in a firing squad?
A. The men of SK 4-a were assigned to the general duties, whether any such people had been ordered to join a firing squad, I don't know.
I just don't know.
Q. During the action in Kiev did an officer of SK 4-a participate?
A. No, an officer did not participate, and I myself was not present at the execution. I personally was not fit for duty at the time.
Q. Were any reports made out by SK 4-a, about this execution perhaps giving the numbers?
A. The possibility exists. In my sick room Hoffman reported on the 1st or 2nd of October, and told me that he reported to Berlin, that the Group staff and the SK 4-a, and police units, had shot 33,000 Jews. As a further document he requested a report by SK 4-a. He then repeated this request. Whether this report was written or whether he dictated it, I don't know.
Q. Did you contradict such a procedure, or object to such a procedure of reporting about executions?
A. I told Mr. Hoffman at the time that such a procedure of reporting would give a completely false picture in Berlin, and if Berlin would ask for reports under oath, steps would be taken against him and myself; but Hoffman had already reported to Berlin and was not prepared to correct his reports afterwards. He continued to send detailed reports about Kiev to Berlin, which have also been included in these operation reports.
Q. Did you -- that is to say, did the SK 4-a -- have anything to do with the collection of clothing, since it says in the document that money valuables and clothing were safeguarded?
A. The SK 4-a had nothing to do with that. As far as I knew, Ukrainian militiamen did this.
Q. Do you know who received these things?
A. The Ukrainians had the administration of these things. How they were distributed, and who was the recipient, I don't know. The militia was under the Higher SS and Police leader.
Q. I again refer to Document Book 1, page 156 of the German text.
This Exhibit 30, Document NO-3140. In the English document book it is page 115, under III, in the middle of page 16 of the original. We have a report -
DR. HOCHWALD: It is page 125 of the English, Your Honor. BY DR. HEIM:
(continuing) In the middle of page 16 of the original, under III, there is a report about the operation against the Jews in Shitomir. There it says, I quote: "After the confinement of the Jews to a resstricted area, which had been carried out by the Feldkommandantur following a suggestion of the Sonderkommando 4-a, a considerable calm was noticed, for example, at the markets and so forth." tion to the Field Command?
A. As far as I remember the SK 4-a in a report to Group C suggested this in its report, about the situation in Shitomir. This was done because the Ukrainians had often confiscated apartments from Jews who had moved there in 1937, and at that occasion murders and excesses had taken place.
Q. On the next page of the document, about the middle of the German text, a little below the middle on page 17 of the original, a conference which took place on the 10th of September 1941 in the Field Command is spoken of. According to this situation report, it had been decided as a result of this conference to eliminate and liquidate the Jews of Shitomir Completely and finally, - did you participate in this conference, witness?
DR. HEIM: Your Honor, the Prosecutor just drew my attention to the fact that in the English document book the 13th of September 1941 is given as the date of the conference. In my document book, in the German text, it says the 10th of September 1941. I cannot determine at the moment which one is correct.
THE PRESIDENT: May we not have a look at the photostat to determine which is the correct date?
DR. HOCHWALD: Your Honors, please, this document is Exhibit No. 30.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary General, will please locate that exhibit and submit it to the Tribunal.
Q. ( By Dr. Heim) Witness, did you participate in this conference at the Field Command?
A. I didn't take part in such a conference, but I can say definitely that the report about Shitomir was submitted to the SS and Polices leader Jeckeln. The order of Jeckeln about the shootings and what was to happen about the Jews was brought by Obersturmbannfuehrer Meier. Furthermore, the document, just mentioned says that on the 19th of September the Jewish quarter was evacuated and three thousand and some odd Jews were registered and executed.
Q. Did the SK 4-a have anything to do with the execution of these Jews -- because the Prosecution insists on the responsibility of SK 4-a in this case.
A. The SK 4-a had nothing to do with this. The SK 4-a was not in Shitomir at the time but was about 150 kilometers east of it, just at the time they were marching into Kiev. On the occasion of this execution, and at any other time, or for any other reason, the SK 4-a did not confiscate any money, or valuables, or clothing. The statement in this document is absolutely incorrect and -
Q. In connection with this-
THE PRESIDENT: Pardon me. I didn't catch that last word.
INTERPRETER: The defendant said the statement was a big lie.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, I see. All right.
Q. (By Dr. Heim -- continuing) In connection with this operation report just discussed I want to refer to Document Book 1, page 159 of the German, page 129 of the English text. There we find Document NO3824, Exhibit 31. This is your affidavit, witness. It is an affidavit of the 6th of June 1947. In this affidavit it says, under number 7, I quote:
"In September or October 1941 the Einsatzgruppe C under Dr. Rasch placed a gas van at my disposal, and one execution was carried out by means of that gas van." that is to say, the Special Commando 4-a, used the gas van. Is that correct?
Court No. II-A, Case No. IX.
A. No, I never said anything in my interrogation about the use of the gas van for Special Commando 4A. This cannot be concluded from my statement in the affidavit that the Sonderkommando 4a used the gas van. This gas van was always with Group C, that is to say, it was delivered around this Kiev time and it was with the group staff. The group staff at the time was at the same location as Sonderkommanda 4a. I saw this gas van employed by another unit and later the gas van was used as a truck for general purposes.
Q. I now come to a set of questions which refer to a number of situation reports. Witness, was another Kommanda in Kiev together with the Special Kommanda 4a?
A. Einsatz Kommando 5 had also arrived in Kiev on the 25th or 26th of September 1941 with about 150 men. This was not the entire Einsatz Commando 5. Einsatz Commando 5 was larger than that.
Q. Who was the Commanding officer of Einsatz Commando 5?
A. The Commanding Officer of Einsatz Commando 5 was then Obersturmbannfuehrer Meyer who had until that time been permanent liaison officer to the higher SS and police leader for Group C and who had relieved Schultz.
Q. Did the performance of the two kommandos of Einsatz Group "C" in Kiev result in a change of the organization?
A. A change in the organization had been planned. The Special Kommando 4a which was weak and continued to be weakened by losses was to be dissolved and incorporated into Einsatz Commando 5. Obersturmbannfuehrer Meyer was to assume leadership since I was to be relieved because of sickness and injury. This reorganized Kommando 5 was then to put men at the disposal of the regular garrison duties and men were actually detailed to Shitomir, Rovonow and other places.
Furthermore, it was planned for the area of Charkow to use a certain advance commando there.
Q. Was this plan realized?
A. Not essentially, except for the details which I have already just described, but the files of special kommando 4a were handed over to Einsatz Commando 5,
Q. What was responsible for this plan not being realized?
A. About this time, October 1941, the Reichsfuehrer SS visited the higher SS and police leader Jockelm at Kiev. Dr. Rasch for reasons known only to him incurred the displeasure of the Reichsfuehrer. He then subsequently left for Berlin. In his absence Dr. Hoffman took over the command of Group "C".
THE PRESIDENT: Will you suspend just for a moment, please. We have before us now photostat of the Exhibit which was under discussion a few minutes ago. We have document No. 3140 before us for scrutiny and on page 17 we are looking at the date which was a subject for discussion a few minutes ago. We would like to have both the Prosecution and defense look at the data and see if they can agree upon it because it is not entirely clear.
MR. HOCHWALD: It seems to me to be a zero, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Heim, does it seem more like a zero than an eight to you?
DR. HEIM; Your Honor, I consider the number to be. a zero.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, we agree on that.
DR. HEIM: Your Honor, I would then request a corresponding correction in the English document book,
THE PRESIDENT: That correction will be made. What page is that, Mr. Hochwald, do you recall the page in the English text?
MR. HOCHWALD: I shall find out, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Page 126, Judge Dixon says.
MR. HOCHWALD: Yes, it is 126, on the bottom.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, we will accept for the moment September 10th as the date but we will not close the door to any further discussion on this date. It may be that the photostat can be subjected to microscopic inquiry in order that all ambiguity may be removed. It may be that in connection with the rest of the document and with other documents that the 18th of September might be more logical and then that would fortify the possibility that that digit is an eight instead of a zero but for the moment it will remain the 10 of September. BY DR. HEIM:
Q. Witness, I would like to repeat the question just asked of you. You have only answered it partly. Why was this reorganization which you mentioned not realized?
A. I described that Dr. Rasch had left for Berlin and Dr. Hoffman-had assumed command of the group. After the return of Dr. Rasch from Berlin in the last third of October, 1941, the command was finally handed over to Dr. Thomas in Kiev. The new Chief, Dr. Thomas, left the two kommandos, EK 5 and SK 4a, according to the plans and used SK 4a in the combat zone and EK 5 in the rear areas, just as Dr. Rasch also recommended my release since the setting up of garrison units had already started and was proceeding.
Q. What directives did the new group Chief, Dr. Thomas, make about the area or about the garrison disposition?
A. The remaining kommandos, SK 4a until it had completed the necessary motor repairs, remained in Kiev, but it had orders to meet with the other two sub-kommandos in the area of CHARKOW.
EK 5 was to remain In Kiev and to continue its activities East of the Dniepr River and the area Kiev -- POLTAWA was rear area territory.
Q. In your opinion, does the possibility exist that the simultaneous presence of SK 4a and EK 5 in the Kiev area lead to mix-ups in the reports of the chief of the security police and the SD?
A. The IK 5 with a strength of about 180 men and the rest of SK 4a with a strength of one kommando, which is one administrative officer and 30 men had the same garrison, namely, Kiev, as can be seen from the document book II-C, Exhibit 72, No. 2830.
THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment, please witness, would you like to make a request for the excuse of the defendant
DR. DURCHOLZ: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: He will be excused under guard. BY DR. HEIM:
Q. Witness you just said that the Einsatz Commando 5 had a strength of about 180 men, whereas SK 4a had one commanding officer, one administrative officer and 30 men. Here you had reference to a document which shows this relationship. Will you please refer to this document once
A. The document in which these reports are listed is in document book 2-C, Exhibit 72, document NO-2830, operational report of the 12 November 1941, on page 20. I now refer to document book II-A on page 43 of the German text. This is Exhibit No. 38, document No. 3155 in the English document book. This is on page 43. This is the operational report 111 of the 12 October 1941. On page 4 of the original, pardon me, on page 5 of the original, the second paragraph reads as follows:
In the English document book it is on page 45 and I quote:
"on the 26 September, the Security Police took up its activities in Kiev. On that day 7 interrogation Kommandos of Einsatzkommando 4a started their work in the Civilian Prisoner Camp, in the Prisoner-of-War Camp, in the Jewish Camp, and in the city itself." it to you?
A. This is an obvious mix up with the EK 5 stationed in Kiev. As has been frequently mentioned before the SK 4a strength was negligible so that the activities of the SK 4a mentioned here is impossible. I repeat, the SK 4a in Kiev consisted of an administrative office and supply units, the drivers, four men, and 7 or 8 Ukrainians, two men in the division and three men in the orderly room. Usually three men were detailed for interrogation duties. The interrogations themselves were carried out by officers who were first of all brought in from the Reich to the group and who had been provided for garrison duties and they frequently changed. SK 4a never was active in carrying out interrogations in camps as the report mentions.
Q. In connection with the designations in Kiev, I refer to document book II-C, page 28 of the German text. This is Exhibit No. 72, Document No. 2830, This is on page 20 of the English text. On page 17 of the original in the next to the last paragraph on page 24 of the English document book, page 28 of the German, there it says, and I quote:
"In Kiev, Sonderkommando 4a regularly carried out interrogations and arrests, which in most cases led to executions. Here, almost without exception, we were concerned with active Communists who had worked for the KP."
Witness, is this report correct?
A. What I have already said before is to be applied here, that this is also a mix-up with Commando 5.
Q. Can you give any more facts which point to a mix up between EK 5 and SK 4a?
A. The facts mentioned in No. 2832, in Book II-C, Exhibit 79, situation report 135, this is on page 50-a of the English text, the 19 November 1941, this is on page 51. The localities mentioned in this report, Koselex, Tschernigow, Njeschin, all of these localities were within the area of EK 5, which was in charge of the entire area East of Kiev, down to Poltawa, and to which this area had been given as rear army territory. The same document, page 22 of the original, shows that from the 20 October to the 26 October, 1941, the EK 5, executed the 36 political functionaries and 32 saboteurs and looters and 4372 Jews, in area of Kiev, without mentioning the locality. This is on page 57 of the English. In the week from the 26 October to 1 November, 1941, inclusive, Einsatz Commando 5 executed 40 political functionaries, 60 saboteurs, and looters, and 2585 Jews in the area of Kiev, again without mentioning the specific locality. There it is noted specifically that the number 2654, includes 414 hostages shot as a reprisal for various arsons and 1391 executions carried out by a sub-commando of Einsatz Kommando 5, which had returned from the area of Squirapogrewitscheplisky. This sub-commando at the time in question returned from the area of the EK 5 to Kiev. The mix-up of EK 5 with SK 4a becomes even more evident from the report of the headquarters and radio communications. In document No. 2830 of the 12 November, 1941, and in the document No. 2832 of the 12 November, 1941, and in the document No. 2832 of the 19 November, 1941, SK 4a is credited with signal communications with Dujivovetrowsk, which actually belonged to EK 5. This circumstance can be traced back to the reorganization which the group must have reported to Berlin.
DR. HEIM: Your Honor, I would like to give two exhibit numbers to the documents which the witness has just mentioned; Document NO-2830boars the Exhibit No. 72, and it is in Book 2-C, on page 20, of the English text. The Document NO-2832 is Exhibit No 79, and is on page 58 of the English Document Book.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Heim, this might be a good place at which to have a recess.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Heim, did you have the opportunity to study the document under a microscope, or under a magnifying glass.
DR. HEIM: I did so, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, doesn't it seem to you now more likely that it is an "8" rather than a "zero".
DR. HEIM: Your Honor, in an examination I have convinced myself that it is an "8". Especially as on the proceeding page I compared the eights and I can now state that it must be an "8" and not a zero.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, the record will show definitely and definitively that the date is "18" and not "10".
DR. HEIM: Thank you, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: yes. BY DR. HEIM: ness of the Operational Reports concerning the mix-up between EK5 and SK4A and I have one question to ask you. During this time did SK4A carry out executions at all, when the SK4A was stationed in Kiev together with EK5? September 1941.
DR. HEIM: I now refer to Document Book II-A of the Prosecution and I turn to page 42 of the German and 43 of the English text. Here we have document NO-3135, Exhibit No. 38, this is an operational report number 111 of 12 October 1941.
On page 4 of the original, of English Document Book, on page 44, the fourth paragraph at the bottom, it says, and I quote: "The Sonderkommando 4-A has by now reached the total number of more than 51,000 executions. Apart from the special action in Kiev of 28 and 29 September, for which 2 Kommandos of the Police Regiment South were detached, all executions carried out sofar were made by that Special Kommando without any assistance or outside help." It is on page 44 of the English text, and it is the fourth paragraph from the bottom. operational report. Will you comment on it, and will you give the Tribunal a detailed statement telling us whether this report about SK4A is true, and whether this SD4A carried out 51,000 executions, and if this statement is in agreement with the facts?
A. The facts according to the operational reports prove that the total figure is incorrect. In various and numerous reports, as I have already said, in connection with the SK-4-A, other units, as, for instance, Army units and units of the Higher SS and Police leader are mentioned. In the operation report of the 12th of October, which is Document 3155, 8800 Jews are reported as having been shot, without mentioning the name of the location of EK-5. From the 25 September until the 5th of October, 1941, the largest part is taken by the sector Kiev; EK-5, with approximately 150 men,-that is three-fourths of the actual kommando,--was stationed in this territory.
Q. Was the SK-4-A in the position, as it was a small unit, able to carry out the following executions within this period mentioned without outside help, these 51,000 minus 33,771, the result of which is 17,229? Will you comment on this?
A. Without any outside help this was practically impossible, and secondly the reported total figures contain execution numbers of other units. One can currently prove it in the succession of documents. There is also, furthermore, the reporter himself added the figures.
Q. I now refer to Document Book II-C of the Prosecution. On Page 28 of the German text--it is Exhibit No. 72, Document NO-2830-is the operational Report 132 of the 12th of November, 1941. It is Page 20 of the English text, your Honor. On Page 5 of the German copy it says, and I quote:
"The number of people executed by SK-4-A has increased to 55,432." That is the end of my quotation. Witness, do you think this figure mentioned here is correct?
A. The figure mentioned here is subject to the same condition as all others which were mentioned, and is equally incorrect. In the same document there are other executions mentioned which were, allegedly, carried out by the SK-4-A in Borispol., Q. mid you learn of these executions at the time?
A. No, I never learned of these executions at the time. The SK was never detailed to Borispol, and SK-4A could not dispose of a platoon, which is about fifty to sixty men.
Here is the same mix-up between a platoon of the EK-5, which is in the rear area territory, with units of SK-4A.
Q. I now refer to Document Book II-C of the Prosecution on Page 43 of the German, Page 37 of the English text. It is Document NO-3404, Exhibit 75. It is Operational Report 119 Of the 20th of October, 1941. On Page 47, the first paragraph in the German text, Page 40 of the English document book, second paragraph from the bottom it says, and I quote: "An operation was carried out in Iwankow on 19 September 1941 by the Sonderkommando 4a with the aid of the militia, in which 166 persons were apprehended and liquidated." That is the end of my quotation. witness, is the report correct?
A. Whether it is correct I do not knew. Through this document I am learning for the first time of this alleged fact. I looked on the map and I saw that Iwankow is north of Markov before Kiev. It is an incident which happened before we reached Kiev. The militia mentioned in the document, according to circumstances prevailing there, must have been subordinate to an Army unit. The action itself is not known to me. From the report it does not become evident for what purpose the executions were supposed to have been carried out. The order for such measures I was not authorized to give. I was not entitled to do so as the executive power was in the hands of the local Army commando. ment 3140, according to which on the 19th of September, 1941, that is, therefore, the same day, in Zhitomir an operation is supposed to have been carried out by the SK-4. Iwankow and Zhitomir are 110 kilometers apart as the crow flies, and the subkommandos at the time were in the vicinity, in a radius around Kiev and were marching towards Kiev, towards the units to which they had been detailed.
Q. In this same document an operation of the SK-4a is mentioned in korosten according to which 177 Jews are supposed to have been executed.
Will you comment on this?
A. By order of the group, three interpreters had been ordered to Korosten as from august 41, before I was detailed there, on the 13th August 1941. I was suffering from Wolhynian fever at the time. The SK-4a, according to my knowledge, never had a subkommando stationed in Korosten, or never had one ordered nor detailed there. The kommandos of the SK-4a were stationed in the frontal area around Kiev in August, or September at least.
Q. Please will you go to Document Book II-c of the Prosecution, to page 31 of the German text. In the English text it is Page 27. There we have Document NO-3151, Exhibit No. 73. on Page 32 of the German text, Page 29 of the English text, the third paragraph from the bottom, an execution is mentioned, an execution, in fact, of 160 people in Korosten. Is this action, according to your opinion, the same as the one mentioned in 3404 in Korosten?
A. In my opinion it is the same operation. The document does not mention any dates, at least no different dates. Both reports were taken from different contexts by the reporter. The situation reports and the other reports originated from the Higher SS and Police Leader.
Q. witness, I now come to the document just mentioned, which was NO-3404. It is in Document Book II-C of the Prosecution, Page 37 of the English book, Page 47 of the German text. On Page 40 of the English text, the second paragraph from the bottom, there is an execution mentioned, an execution of three adolescents by the SK-4a at Radomysohl on 13 September 1941. These adolescents, according to the report, are supposed to have carried out espionage, and therefore were executed. witness, did these executions take place according to your knowledge?
A. What measures were carried out there I cannot say. Basically, any case of espionage had to be reported to the competent Army agency, and in this case it was G-a. The perpetrators had to be arrested and turned over to G-2. In various cases they were parachutists who were arrested.
Q. who, according to your knowledge, gave the order for the execution of these adolescents?
A. It can only have been the competent G-2 division, or the G-2 officer of the AOK/6 who reported the incident and took the according executive measures.
Q. Do you believe that these executions were properly investigated beforehand?
A. Yes, I think than an interrogation must have taken place, interrogation and sentence was here in the hands of the Army.
Q. In the same document it says in the context that the special kommando 4a on the way from Wyrna to Dederow stopped a gypsy band of 32 persons and that these persons were executed by the SK-4a. The reason given was the fact that when the wagons were searched German equipment was found and that the band could not give any information as to the origin of this equipment. Is this report correct?
A. This is the first time that I heard of this report. In the frontal area around Kiev and also the rear Army territory, the existence of gypsies would have been an exceptional thing. In these territories there were no gypsies and no vagabonds. We never met them. It is not known to me that a report of this kind was ever issued or received. The gypsy country was very much more to the south. In the report, in my opinion, again there must have been a mix-up of the authorities of the kommandos. I can find no other explanation.
Q. Witness, you will not be able to tall me the order of execution, based on your statement, of course?
A. No, I can make no statements as to this.
Q. Furthermore, it says in the same document that an advance kommando, a Vorkommando of the SK-4a on the 4th of October, 1941, in B ereslow, with the aid of Ukrainian confidential agents, carried out a Jews-operation. According to this operational report a total of 537 Jews, namely, men, women and adolescents, were apprehended and liquidated. That do you know of these operations as mentioned in the report?
A. I know nothing about the operation itself. The territory at the cast of Kiev was the rear Army territory which came under the EK-5 in which Bereslow is situated. The SK-4a, the advance kommando, was stationed at that time in Charkov or near Charkov, 300 kilometers more to the east. The rest of SK-4a was stationed in Kiev and was not liable for assignment. It was just being restored, and of the men of the actual SK-4a nobody was ever there.
Q. I now refer to Document Book II-C of the Prosecution, Page 62 of the German text. It is Exhibit No. 72, Document NO-2830. In the English Document B ook it is page 20. Here an execution of 1365 people in Lubny is mentioned. Witness, were these executions ordered by you. It is Page 20, 24 of the English document book, first paragraph from the top.
A. These executions were carried out on my orders. A platoon of the SK-4a was never in Lubny. The advance kommando of the SK-4a led by Mueller must have passed Lubny, which is evident in Document 3405 which is in Document Book II-A. It is Exhibit No. 72. On Page 9 of the text it says that this subkommando of the SK-4a took over on the 18th of October, 1941, making use of the file material which was left over by the SK-4a, and it took over the tasks of dealing with current events. As I already ski, a platoon as mentioned in the documents was not at the disposel of the SK-4a and a platoon was not a part of SK-4a, and therefore it cannot have been made use of for a matter of this kind. It must have been a different unit. This is the first time that I heard of an event of this kind.
Q. In the same document it says that on the 8th of October, 1941, special kommando 4a in Jagotin was searching for suspicious elements.
During this operation 125 Jews had been arrested and had been liquidated. Herr Blobel, does this report agree with the fact?
A. The report concerns the same location and it can, therefore, not have referred to SK-4a. I do not know these happenings.
Q. Witness, I want to refer to the document which you mentioned before, and I want to deal with it in detail. Will you take Document Book II-A and will you take Page 61 of the German text? It is Exhibit No. 42, Document NO-3405. It is Operational Report 156 of the 6th January, 1942. It is on Page 57 of the English document book, your Honor. In this document shooting of 34 agents and Communists and 73 Jews of the SK-4a also in Lubny is reported. What do you know about this operation, and what did you ever learn about it?
A. This event concrns the subkommando 4a which in the middle of October, 1941, in Kiev, staffed by one leader and 15 Underleaders and men, was reinstated and subdivided, and marched towards the advance kommando in Charkov. The march passed Lubny at the direction to the sector Charkov. According to the document this subkommando took over the files in Lubny which were left by the preceding kommando. The advance kommando must have marched on by the time of reporting. The files could only be left with the local kommandantura or with an Army unit, and lists concerning information and investigation results must have been at their disposal which were then followed up by the kommando. I remember the leader of this kommando who took part in the reinstatements of the group and was detailed to the group SK-4a, he was quite a now man. I remember, as I say, that later when he arrived in Charkov in December, 1941, he described the state of the kommando and said that the kommando, including members of the Wehrmacht and Army, went to the kommandantura in Lubny and other villages in the vicinity, and that they searched for partisans and raided partisan hiding places, and thus they also found lots of food. The kommando itself found and took with them pickled beef, large supplies of pickled beef, and they found members of armed bands.