A. I heard about this. I heard that Rotterdam had been previously asked not to defend themselves as an open city and that they did not do this.
Q. And you believe, therefore, it was proper to bomb that city killing thousands of women and children?
A. Your Honor, if an enemy defends a city........
Q. Will you answer that. You believe it was proper then, that is your answer, yes.
A. If it was defended by soldiers, yes. Then it is a fortress.
Q. You believe that it was proper to make war on Norway which had not declared war on Germany?
A. Your Honor, I can only repeat that at the time it was explained to us quite clearly and we believed this.
Q. You believed it was proper; you believed it was proper?
A. Because we believed......
Q. Now, please answer that question.
A. We would be first this way.
Q. Well, regardless of what was told you, you believed it was proper to invade Norway?
A. Only because of what I was told.
Q. You believed it to be proper in view of what had been told you?
A. Yes.
Q. And you believed it was proper to invade Denmark and Holland and Luxemburg?
A. All this was connected with the statement that we had to carry out this in order to avoid that they attack us.
Q. Well, you believe that it was proper?
A. From that point of view, yes.
Q. You believed it was proper to invade Greece?
A. At the time there were differences already.
Q. But you believed it was proper. That is the only thing I want to find out.
A. Yes, your Honor.
Q. You believe it was proper to invade Yugoslavia and Belgium?
A. Yes, we were told at the time.
Q. Yes, now, do you justify all those invasions today. Do you think today that it was proper to have invaded all these countries?
A. Your Honor, I have no possibility to study history here.
Q. Do you believe today it was proper to invade Norway, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, Luxemburg and the other countries?
A. I can't reply to this, your Honor.
Q. Very well.
A. Because I cannot judge this.
Q. Then how can you judge whether Austria was proper annexed to Germany?
A. At the time we heard how enthusiastic they were, and we were in Austria.
Q. Well, you were in Belgium; you were in Holland; you were in Norway; you were in Greece; and you were in Yugoslavia. You were in all these other countries too.
A. No, your Honor. I personally merely wanted to give the impression which the annexation had on the people in Austria at the time.
THE PRESIDENT: Now, Dr. Lummert, I am going to ask you a question. You have seen that the witness is unable or refuses to justify the invasion of all these countries, but he stands upon the annexation of Austria to Germany. Now, what has that got to do with what happened in 1941? If you intend to show that everything which Hitler did up until that time was proper and correct, then it is not in order to show what he thinks about Austria, but you must take all that history and not one specific episode.
DR. LUMMERT: Your Honor, may I add something about this? I am afraid that I have not been completely understood. The witness testified that he believed in Hitler, that he worshipped him, and that for that reason the order of 1941 concerning the executions had special importance for him, and simply as one example on what this special belief in Hitler is based, he mentioned the annexation of Austria, and in this connection, that is merely to support the testimony of the witness, I wanted to introduce this Document No. 9. I believe that in this connection it could be considered relevant.
THE PRESIDENT: You said you would offer this affidavit as a window. We are perfectly willing to have a window, but we don't want to have the view shut off from the one who is looking through the window, and if we look through a window we do not only see Austria, but we see all the other countries which I have mentioned.
DR. LUMMERT: Your Honor, I certainly did not have any such intention.
MR. FERENCZ: The explanation offered by defense counsel who is offering this document as it will explain why the Defendant Blume adored Hitler. The prosecution is ready to concede that the defendant adored Hitler and that in his opinion he had good reason for it.
THE PRESIDENT: With this concession on the part of the prosecution as to the reasons for the adoration of Adolf Hitler by the witness, it doesn't seem that this affidavit has much probative value. However, the Tribunal is willing to give you every possible latitude, Dr. Lummert. The objection of the prosecution is overruled, and you may introduce the affidavit.
DR. LUMMERT: Your Honor, may I point out the fact it is not an affidavit but it is a statement which the Austrian Catholic bishops published at the time and which appeared in all German papers in facsimile.
Q. (By Dr. Lummert) I now ask, do you remember this statement by the Austrian bishops?
A. Yes. I remember the days in March 1938 because they Were the most beautiful days of my life and I know that many other Germans felt the same way. The statements by the bishops and the statements of many other authorities who all agreed to this at the time were, then, a confirmation for me of the fact that Adolf Hitler had a great mission for the German people.
DR. LUMMERT: The Document Blume No. 9 is in Document Book I, page 95 to 99. I will now read a few lines of the bottom half of page 96. I quote, page 96 - just below the middle:
"We, the Austrian bishops, after exhaustive deliberation, in view of the great historical times through which the Austrian people have lived, aware that in these days the thousand-year-old longing of our people for union with the great German Reich will find its fulfillment, have decided to make the fallowing appeal to all our faithful." ment on page 98 of the Document Book. I quote:
"Solemn Manifesto: We, the Austrian Bishops of the Austrian diocese declare, with serious conviction and of our own free will, on the occasion of the great historical events in German-Austria, we gladly recognize......."
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Lummert, it isn't necessary to read the manifesto. If you desire to sum it up in a few phrases we will permit that, but certainly we shouldn't take time to read this manifesto issued in 1938 on a subject which is not involved in the indictment.
DR. LUMMERT: Yes, Your Honor. I then request that I may just refer to this statement. I think it is not necessary for me to summarize the contents.
Blume on the witness stand. This section concerns Charge 3 of the indictment. That is the membership in organizations declared criminal by the International Military Tribunal. Only the time after 1 September 1939 is concerned here. 3, I first deal with the membership in the SS.
Q. (By Dr. Lummert) Witness, in your testimony you talked about your professional career and you mentioned that in June 1935, when you appeared on a scoial case in a civilian suit, Heydrich arranged that you be transferred from the SA to the SS in the same rank, namely in the rank of SS-Untersturmfuehrer. Untersturmfuehrer is the same as a lieutenant. Please give me further details now about your SS membership, in particular whether you did service in the SS.
A. I was never active in the SS but as a police official I was merely a formal member of the SS, no real or active member of the SS. Already before 1936 certain relations existed through Himmler between the SS and the police. These became closer when Himmler, the Reichsfuehrer-SS in June, 1936, became chief of the entire German police in the Reich Ministry of the Interior. zations which served for the special protection of the state would be united, in particular the SS, the SD, and the entire police. This idea of the state protection corps was not realized until 1945. Only a few odd measures were taken concerning this. Concerning these measures, or some of them there was a sort of equivalent protective corps of the police with the SS about which a special decree was issued by Himmler in the year 1938. On the basis of this there was an assimulation of ranks since 1938. According to my promotion in the police service I was always promoted to the corresponding SS rank. Therefore, an Regierungsrat I became Sturmbannfuehrer. That is a major. As Oberregierungsrat I became Obersturmbannfuehrer. That is Lieutenant-Colonel. Finally as Ministerialrat, Standartenfuehrer. That is a Colonel. But these were only SS ranks. Official positions I did not hold in the SS, and as I said, I was not active in the SS either. Only in the last eight days of the war, approximately, I was drafted into the Waffen-SS.
DR. LUMMERT: In this connection I offer the Assimilation of Rank Decree of 23 June 1938 as evidence Blume No. 10. The document is in Document Book, Pages 100 to 105. The listing of the corresponding rank is on Pages 101 to 103. In section 1 of this decree, Page 100 of the document book, it sags that members of the Security policy, upon request, be received into the SS. That means voluntarily, apparently. Witness, how about this voluntary effort?
A. Since the assimilation of ranks of the members of the police and the members of the SS confirmed the wish of Himmler, it was put in practice. It was fixed that every member of the Security Police should make this application if he fulfilled the conditions required in the decree.
Q. In Section 3 of this decree, Page 103 of the document book, it is said, and I quote: "The employees of the Security Police will be put into that SS rank which corresponds to their rank as civil service members of the Security Police. Incorporated into the SS they will be assigned to the units of the Security Service of the Reichsfuehrer-SS according to the more detailed instructions of the Chief of the Security Police and of the Security Main Office of the Reichsfuehrer-SS." The quote was on Page 103 in the center. Witness, what was the sense and the meaning of this instruction?
A. Although Himmler ordered that the members of the police would be given a rank in the SS, on the other hand he did not want these members of the police to be subordinate to the SS Main Office. He, therefore, decreed that these police members, concerning their SS Activity, should be subordinate to the Chief of the Reich Main Security Office of the Reichsfuehrer-SS, that is the later Chief of the SD, and that formally they would be assigned to the units of the SD. The police members with SS ranks were, therefore, not subordinate to the SS-Main Office, but were subordinate to the SD-Main Office, and since the SD-Main Office was subordinate to the Chief of the Security Police and the SD, the whole matter more or less remained within the police. Thus is shown particularly clearly that the whole SS assimilation of ranks was only a formal matter because in reality the police members did this service according to their assimilation of ranks in the same manner as before, and only served in the police and were active neither in the SS nor in the SD. personal files for the persons who were assimilated in rank in the police, only, as far as I remember, in the year 1943 or 1944. These are files which the Prosecution has used against a few defendants, including myself; by the way, those personal files contain a great deal of inaccuracies. The SS-Personel Office could not find out the personal details at this stage of the war to such an extent and in such detail.
Q. Witness, I do not intend to ask you about these small inaccuracies in detail, because in my opinion this is not the important point. You said that you were never active in the SS apart from a very few days at the end of the war when you were drafted into the Waffen-SS. Please give me some details about this.
A. At the end of April, 1945, I was drafted in Salzburg in the normal military drafting order and had to join the Waffen-SS. In Salzburg it was the branch, the Ausweichstelle of the Reich Security Main Office. From Blankenburg I had retired to Salzburg.
THE PRESIDENT: One moment plese. Mr. Ferencz, are you charging the witness under the count in question with the subject matter of his present testimony, namely his membership in the Waffen-SS in 1945.
MR. FERENCZ: Your Honor, we are charging the witness generally with membership in the SS after 1939.
THE PRESIDENT: Up to and including the day of surrender?
MR. FERENCZ: That is right.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
Q. (By Dr. Lummert) Witness, please continue with your testimony.
A. There the Reich Main Security Office released me from military service because they could not find any other work for me. I, therefore, received the normal drafting order to the Waffen-SS, which I had to follow like any other drafting for military service. Before the war I had had military training twice for eight weeks at a time, with the Fourth Antiaircraft Regiment in Dortmund and had been promoted to be a corporat and as a reserve officer. For that reason, when I was drafted into the Waffen-SS I was given the corresponding rank of an SS-Rottenfuehrer. Already, eight to ten days, Germany capitulated and I was taken prisoner of war.
DR. LUMMERT: Your Honor, "Gefreiter" has just been translated as corporal. I don't know whether that is quite correct. I believe the translation is Pfc., Private, First Class.
THE INTERPRETER: I beg your pardon, your Honor. That is the English translation.
Q. (By Dr. Lummert) Witness, we now come to the membership in the SS. The indictment says under Count 3, Figure 13b you had been a member of Offices 3, 6 and 7 of the Reich Security main Office. Does this apply and were you active in these offices?
A. No, I never had an official position in these offices, and I was never active in those offices either. If it says so in my personal files, which, as I already said, were started in the years 1943 or 1944 in the SS personnel office, it means merely a matter of form which was based on my SS rank which was assimilated. In reality I only worked as an official in the Security Police.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will be in recess until 1:45.
(A recess was taken until 1345 hours.)
(The hearing reconvened at 1345 hours, November 4, 1947.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. RIEDIGER (Attorney for the Defendant Haensch): Your Honor, I would like the Defendant Haensch to be excused for this afternoon and tomorrow morning in order to be able to prepare himself for his examination. I would like him to be brought to Room N. 57 now, if that would be possible.
THE PRESIDENT: The Defendant Haensch will be excused from attendance in court this afternoon and tomorrow. He will be taken to Room 57 under guard immediately.
(The Defendant Haensch was excused.)
DR. LUMMERT: May I proceed, Your Honor?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, certainly. BY DR. LUMMERT (ATTORNEY FOR THE DEFENDANT BLUME): of the defendant in organizations which were declared criminal by the IMT. I had finished the questions referring to the SD and SS and I now deal with the membership in the Gestapo. Witness, the indictment says, referring to Count III, under No. 353C, that you had been a member of Office IV of the RSHA, the Reich Security Main Office. Is this true? In May and June 1941 and then again from the end of August 1941 to July 1942 I was Personnel Office Chief of Office I of the RSHA. Since my return from Greece, that is from August, 1944, I was again a member of Office I of the RSHA. This position did not change even when in March, 1945, I was detailed to Thuringia by the Office Chief of Office I in order to deal with personnel and organization of the censorship and to transfer it to the Reich Security Main office.
This activity in Blankenburg was ceased after ten days, because the American troops were approaching. Incidentally, during those ten days, the activities were dissolved, because there was no longer any mail. Had I remained there longer it would have been probable that Kriminalrat Mueller who had been detailed to Blankenburg Office IV of the RSHA would have taken over, and, in this case, I would probably have been transferred to Office IV from Office I of the RSHA, but it never came to that.
DR. LUMMERT: Your Honor, I have now finished the direct examination of the witness, and I would now like to ask you to permit me to submit the documents 1 to 3 as exhibits. Document 1 I have already submitted on Friday for identification. I do not know whether it would be agreeable to the tribunal if I deal with the legal points, and if I would explain them --those points which are contained in Document No. 1. Perhaps the Tribunal would prefer it if I would just inform them of the content of the matter, I would like to comply with the express wishes of the Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: It is enough if you indicate with a phrase or two the purport of each document which you submit.
DR. LUMMERT: Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: However, if you come to some document in which appears a paragraph or more which you regard of extremely vital importance and want to read that, of course, you may.
DR. LUMMERT: Yes, Your Honors, In the proceedings on Friday I already mentioned that in Document 1, the most important points have been collected which concerned a more severe punishment because of refusal to obey, especially in police organizations, in special assignments.
I had also mentioned last Friday the first paragraph, the concerning paragraphs from the military penal code and the second paragraph, the so-called Special War Penal code and I have quoted from this paragraph. In accordance with this special decree, I would like to make the following remarks. It was published at the beginning of the war and contained more severe punishment regulations. Especially, it concerned the socalled undermining of military strength. The reason I mention this here is that during the later years of the war in Germany the utterance of a more doubt of German victory or just a more doubt that the Fuehrer was right was deemed undermining German military strength and was punished with death. October 1939 by which special legal jurisdiction was being granted-
THE PRESIDENT: Where do you have the decree you just referred to, namely that the expression of doubt in the Fuehrer's perfection could result in a death sentence?
DR. LUMMERT: Your Honor, does this mean '2 or '3?
THE PRESIDENT: You have just said, Dr. Lummert, that in the latter days of the war that even an expression of doubt in the Fuehrer's infallability could result in death. Now where is that decree?
DR. LUMMERT: This is not a decree, your Honor, but this I remember as I was active as a lawyer during the war.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, are you, in effect, taking the witness stand now, Dr. Lummert?
DR. LUMMERT: No, no. Your Honor. That was neither a witness' statement nor a legal argument, but it was just an explanation to paragraph 5, No. 1, on page 6 of the Document Book.
This paragraph was used in this particular sense.
THE PRESIDENT: What is meant by paragraph 3 on page 6, which reads: "In addition to the death penalty, a penitentiary sentence is also admissible." Did they put the corpse in the penitentiary?
DR. LUMMERT: Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you catch my question, Dr. Lummert?
DR. LUMMERT: Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: I don't think you did.
DR. LUMMERT: Yes, Your Honor, the sense of it is, in addition to the death punishment also the property can be confiscated.
THE PRESIDENT: No, no. It says in addition to the death penalty a penitentiary sentence is also -
DR. LUMMERT: Your Honor, I am very sorry. There is a mistake here, a typographical error. It should read, instead of "In addition to the death punishment and the penitentiary sentence" -- "Or the penitentiary sentence, confiscation of property is also admissible."
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
DR. LUMMERT: The third paragraph,of Document 1 concerns a special jurisdiction which also applied at the beginning of the war for members of the SS and members of the police, and other who were active in special assignments.
military law and with military jurisdiction, There was only just one difference. This difference was mentioned by the defendant Ohlendorf when he was on the witness stand. I may perhaps remind the Tribunal that the defendant Ohlendorf said -- it is in the English record 523, in the German 533 - "if war jurisdiction was very severe so the jurisdiction of SS was even more cruel." No. 6. That is page 3 in the center of the page. There it says that the SS and Police jurisdiction also concerned itself with police institutions in special assignment. The Einsatzgruppen whom we are dealing with here in these proceedings, and the Einsatz- and Special Kommandos were such police institutions employed in special assignment. I may mention here that this special assignment, this term is sometimes translated "on special, assignment" and sometimes "on special tasks," Both translations are correct and they mean the same. In German it is always "im besonderen Einsatz."
The next regulation which is No. 4, is on page 11, supplements the third decree and provided a special court in Munich as Highest SS and Police jurisdiction authority. contains a decree of Himmler as Reichsfuehrer SS and Chief of the German Police of the Spring of 1940, This decree was to the effect that the entire German police for the duration of the war was employed in the sense that has been mentioned before. The point therefore was that since 1940 the Special SS and the Police jurisdiction was valid for the entire German police, no matter whether the police was acting inside or outside Germany, Therefore, the severe penal regulations were valid for the police since Spring 1940 without restrictions of time or place. 2 and 3. I can deal with them in a very short way. Document 2 is an affidavit by the witness Soechting concerning a remark made by Heydrich which he had made in the year 1937.
He was then Chief of the Security Police and the SD. Heydrich on that occasion said and now I quote from page 14 of the document, "Nobody ever leaves the Security Police unless we don't want him any more. In such a case, however, he may leave through a concentration camp." This remark was the answer to applications of members of the Security Police,especially of the Intelligence Deportment,who had asked to be released, from a speech of Himmler of 1943, in which he responds and refers to former remarks. The document was introduced as evidence in the IMT Trial. Himmler on that occasion said, I quote, page 16, center of Document 1: "If within the sphere of your knowledge should there be anyone who is disloyal to the fuehrer or to ourselves even if it is only in thought, you must see to it that this man is thrown out of the organization and we will see to it that he departs this life." That is the end of my quotation. "that obedience must be carried out without reserve and blindly." These words of Himmler, of course, only refer to members of the SS, but Himmler was at the same time Chief of the German Police and in the year 1938 already had established a close contact between the Police and the SS.
I should also like to refer to Blume Document No. 10.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Lummert, by the introduction of these documents which tend to show that it was impossible for one to disobey an order or in any way to modify it, do we understand that you submit that your client did obey the order?
DR. LUMMERT: Your Honor, it is correct-
THE PRESIDENT: That he did disobey the Fuehrer Order?
DR. LUMMERTT: Your Honor, these quotations are merely meant to show that the defendant acted under force.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, that then he did obey the order? Witness, we will put the question to you. There have now been introduced in evid ence various documents which are copies of official decrees of the hierarchy in Germany during the war. These decrees all tend to show that if one disobeyed or qualified an order that serious consequences would follow. Do we understand that you did follow the order so that you would not come into conflict with these decrees?
THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor, in Vitobsk, for instance, as I described.
THE PRESIDENT: You did executes the Fuehrer Order?
THE WITNESS: Yes, however not to its full extent, but-
THE PRESIDENT: Well, now, just a moment. Then you did not execute the Fuehrer Order?
THE WITNESS: Not to its full extent.
THE PRESIDENT: Then why are you submitting all these documents as to the great difficulty you would incur if you did not obey the order. extent indicated by that order?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, then, according to these documents, you should be dead right now for having disobeyed an order?
THE WITNESS: The modified way which I gave this order odd. not come before an SS and Military Court or Police Court, It did not come to any proceedings.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, then, these decrees in no way disturbed or affected you, is that right?
THE WITNESS: Of course, without this duress which was behind me I could, have followed my own intelligence and I would not have had carried out any shootings.
THE PRESIDENT: Now, please listen to the questions and answer directly. You received a Fuehrer Order which called upon you to perform certain executions.
Bid you execute that order?
THE WITNESS: Hot to its full extent.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, you modified the order which was given to you?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT:You did not execute the order which was given to you?
THE WITNESS: No.
THE PRESIDENT: Then according to this decree you should have been court-martialled and shot, is that right?
THE WITNESS: If the matter had come before the court it would have been possible that the court would have drawn such conclusions, but I acted in a manner which one can call evasive, so that in such an action I would have been able to defend myself.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, so therefore all those decrees in no way distubed you, did they? You weren't court-martialled?
THE WITNESS: I said Your Honor, that there were particularly favorable circumstances so that nothing came of it.
THE PRESIDENT: I asked you whether you were court-martialled?
THE WITNESS: No,
THE PRESIDENT: Then these decrees in no way took hold upon you?
THE WITNESS: They were never used, Your Honor,
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, so far as your case is concerned, all these documents are irrelevant, is that right?
THE WITNESS: No, Your Honor, because I knew them and knowledge of these facts caused me to act in cases where I could see no way out to evade a direct order I remind you of the case of Vitobsk, for instance, where I tried to postpone the carrying out of the order until I got a new order by teletype message and, of course, now I had the last alternative, which, before I had evaded temporarily by joining the front troops.
THE PRESIDENT: You were ordered to execute all Jews, isn't that right?
THE WITNESS: Yes, that is right.
Q. And according to your statement, you did not execute all Jews?
A. No.
Q. So, therefore, you did not follow the Fuehrer Decree?
A. No, not to that extent.
Q. You were very fond of Hitler at the time, weren't you?
A. Yes, your Honor.
Q. You adored Hitler?
A. Yes, your Honor.
Q. Then, why did you not follow out his order which was very expressly given to you?
A. For the first time, I was confronted with the fact that all my thoughts and my feelings could not follow the order of the Fuehrer.
Q. Then you had sworn undying allegiance to Hitler, hadn't you?
A. Yes, your Honor.
Q. And according to this oath which you took you were not permitted to change or modify any order... isn't that right?
A. No, your Honor.
Q. You were not permitted to change any order which was given to you by Hitler?
A. According to this oath, not.
Q. No. Then you were not faithful to Hitler when you changed his order?
A. I have had a baa conscience too, your Honor.
Q. You we re not faithful to Hitler when you did not obey his order. Answer that question.
A. Yes, you can call it that.
Q. You lied to Hitler?
A. Your Honor, I tried to find a way out-
Q. You did not obey the order that Hitler gave you?
A. In an advance kommando there were possibilities of following the Hitler order without being confronted with immediately an alternative. And this is what I tried, I tried to find consolation in the thought that I was doing my duty after all, without carrying out this special order.
Q. But you told us you did not follow out the order as it was given to you. How, you either must stand by that, or not. You told us very clearly you did not execute the order as it was given to you. Now, please give me that answer again. Yes or no. Did you follow out the Hitler order to execute all Jews?
A. No.
Q. Very well. Then to that extent you repudiated Hitler?
A. Yes, and I was suffering from a bad conscience, because I did not do my duty.
Q. All right, And you lied to Hitler, You did not follow out the oath which you took to Hitler?
A. Your Honor, the assignment was not only to shoot Jews.
Q. Answer that question, now. You have told us that you did not follow out the order. So that when you did not follow out the order, you lied to Hitler, you did not follow the oath. Answer that.
A. I did not feel it in this manner.
Q. You did not follow out the oath?
A. I deviated from the actual duties which were mine in Russia because I was still thinking that I was doing my duty, because in advance kommandos-
Q. Yes, we have heard all that... We got your explanation. But I an making it more simple. You took an oath to follow Hitler, to obey his orders explicitly...
COURT II Case IX Now, you have voluntarily told us, from the witness stand, that you did not obey that order completely. You attempted to modify it; you tried to get into a situation where you could change it; you tried to evade it. You told us all that. So, therefore, you did not follow Hitler implicitly?
A. Yes; it was the first time that I deviated from a Fuehrer order.
Q. Yes, Therefore, you were not true to the oath which you made to Hitler?
A. Yes, in this particular moment I deviated from the path of my duty.
Q. You lied to your adored leader?
A. Your Honor-
Q. Please answer that question. You told an untruth, by your deeds, to your adored leader. By your actions, not by words... but by your actions you told a lie, an untruth, to your adored leader, Adolf Hitler... Answer that!
A. One can formulate it so, your Honor.
Q. Yes so to that extent you repudiated Adolf Hitler-to that extent, that little bit.
A. Yes.
Q. Yes, So, therefore, Adolf Hitler to you was not infallible?
A. Yes. That was the first feeling I had.
Q. Now, how do you feel about Adolf Hitler today? Do you still think he was the perfect man you believed him to be before you lied to him?
A. The results of politics speak against it, your Honor.
Q. You had told us that when you marched into Russia you believed it was entirely justifiable because you thought Russia was going to attack Germany?
A. Yes.