THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Mayer, pardon me, but when I interrupt you please understand it is purely to get information. I don't want in any way to impede you in proceeding with your case. The witness has stated that typhus broke out, and this made work impossible for weeks. Now, just what work were they engaged in at the time?
A. Investigations were currently carried out in those cases of which I spoke. The officials took out the arrestees, and put them into offices, to be interrogated there. Since they were mostly large complex questions, the interrogations lasted for weeks. Thus, if in the prison and in the house typhus broke out, the interrogations were interrupted and discontinued for medical reasons.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, BY DR. MAYER:
Q. During your stay in Kursk, what were you engaged in?
A. Aside from supervising police activity I made a extensive report on the school question of the Soviet Union. Furthermore, I dealt with captured material, which came from the NKVD in Rostov, which was found by the Kommando IV-A. On the basis of this material I made out a report about the system of work of the NKVD.
Q. At what time and why did you leave your Kommando?
A. On l5th January I started a furlough which had been granted by Thomas. After I arrived in Stuttgart, I informed the chief of Office VI Schellenberg, of my presence in Germany, and I asked him once more to try to have me trasferred into his Office VI. This time I was successful. In the meantime, on 30 January Kaltenbrunner had taken over the Reich Main Security Office. The former chief of personnel, Schulz had become chief of Office I, and thus my transfer to Office VI became retroactive 8 January 1943, and, I, therefore, didn't return to Russia.
Q. Did you mean to say January or February?
A. I mean, 8 February.
DR. MAYER: Your Honor, I now am to speak about the documents, which refer to this witness, and to his activity in Kommando VII-A. in as far as I must make reference to certain places in these documents which are not contained in the extracts submitted by the Prosecution, I shall submit these documents to the Tribunal. BY DR. MAYER:
Q. Witness, please lock at Document Book II-B, prosecution's Exhibit No. 64, Document No. NO-3143, page 42 of the English Text, page 47 of the German Text, it is operational report NO 92 of 23 September 1941. I ask you now, when you took over the Kommando, did y you know how many executions had been carried out by the Special Kommando VII-A, by that time?
A. In this operational report 7077 executions are listed for special Kommando VII-A. This is supposed to have been as of 13 September 1941. I must state in general here---
THE PRESIDENT: We don't find that figure. On what page does it appear?
DR.MEYER: Your Honor, the list is on the last page----
THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Thank you, very much. It is on page 53.
BY DR, MAYER:
Q. Please repeat your answer, witness?
A. This report lists 1011 executions for Special Kommando VII-A.This was supposed to be as of 13 September 1941. I must state in general here that during my command of Special Kommando VII-A, no numerical compilations were ever made which referred to executions. I saw such compilations when I took over the Kommando. During my time various individual figures were reported, which were evidently then compiled by a different agency. About the circumstance that the figure 1011 is supposed to represent the figure as of 13 September 1941, I would like to point out that on 7 September I took over the Kommando, and, accordingly I was then one week with the Kommando when this figure was al report No. 108, dated 9 October 1941, on page 17 of the English text.
The excerpt about the Special Kommando VII-A might be understood thus as if your Special Kommando had delivered to prison every male person between the ages of 15 and 55, Can you comment on this?
A. I can remember a large action against partisans at that time, which took place in this area of Demidow by the Army. One part of Special Kommando VII-A participated in this action. The excerpt here gives t the situation in an er roneous fashion.
I, therefore, ask for permission to be able to read the complete text, relative to the matter as it is stated in the photostat.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Mayer; did I understand you to say that this report indicated that the witness' Kommando had executed all those between the ages of 15 and 55? The report does not say that, It merely says that they were arrested.
DR. MAYER: Yes, Your Honor, it looks as if the Kommando had arrested all persons between the ages of 15 and 55, and put them into prison in the Camp Demidow. The witness would like to explain what was the situation?
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. I understood you to ask him to explain why the report had said that all of those males between these ages had been executed. The report says they were arrested, not executed.
DR. MAYER: That is right.
DR. FERENCZ: May it please the Tribunal. The prosecution has not charged the witness with this particular crime, and if I may bear out some time to point to the fact that we made no mention to it in our case in chief, and have no intention of discussing this problem at all in the case against him.
THE PRESIDENT: Please make very specific then, Mr. Ferencz, your admission that the Prosecution does not charge him with any crime as could be possibly drawn from any certain document.
MR. FERENCZ: Yes, Your Honor, we do not charge him with crime for any of the event described in NO-3156, Section II.
THE PRESIDENT: You have heard that very specific reference, Dr, Mayer, that the present witness, or defendant Steimle is not charged with any crime arising out of Section II of Document NO-3156,
DR. MAYER: Your Honor, May I point out that subsequent to this Section II, there are dots, which means that there is a place where words have been omitted, which are to be found in the original document. The next sentence then reads: "The SK-VII-A was able to find 18? partisans and communists." Then from the same page more dots. Then there is another paragraph which ends by saying: "The remainder of the partisans were shot." This whole operation is, of course, described fully and is also described in the context in the original. It would now depend on whether the Prosecutor explains that, he does not charge the defendant with the entire report. Otherwise, for the sake of understanding the context of the entire report would have to be discussed.
MR. FERENCZ: No, Your Honor, we do not withdraw or fail to charge him with other crimes committed as shown in otherparts of this document, We have not made any mention of the arrest of males in the prison Camp Demidow, but I understood that the defendant was going to make a long explanation of it, so I wasjust trying to save some time.
THE PRESIDENT: I think Mr. Ferencz and Dr. Mayer, that in a situation of this kind, where a report weaves in and out of alleged criminality and not an alleged criminality, that it may be simpler to have the witness explain the entire situation, because other wise you may get into difficulty in trying to determine just what the witness did explain away and what he did not.
MR. FERENCZ: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: So I think Dr. Mayer, it will be entirely in order for you to proceed asyou had originally intended, and let the witness explain in any way he sees fit this particular report.
DR. MAYER: Yes, Your Honor.
Coutr 2, Case 9 BY DR. MAYER:
Q. Witness, please continue?
A. This report is included in the number of executions of Special Kommando VII-A, and the report was based on the following; The Army made up a report from the numbers given it by the kommando, and I ask for permission to cite briefly the original text of the operational report." Special Kommando VII-A had repeatedly determined that in the dense forest southeast of Demidow, a great number of plunderings and attacks on the part of partisans had been carried out This caused great restlessness in that area, and endangered the through fares. There were reports according to which one could court she strength of the partisans from 800 to 2000 men. The Army High Command furnished two divisions to clean up this area. Every male person between fifteen and fifty-five years of age was put into the prison Camp Demidow for screening. The various mopping up operations resulted in the arrest of 693 persons, 438 persons, mostly collective farmers, could be rebased asnon-suspects. 72 former Rod Army men who lived in this operation area were brought into the prison of war camp. 183 partisans and Communist were determined by Special Kommando VII-A. Five partisans admitted to have killed fourteen German soldiers. One German soldier was asphyxiated when he tried to get some eggs, and the others were shot. Hand granades were thrown into passenger cars and in trucks." End of quotation. The compilation of this report shows fights with partisans, and of the taking of prisoners of 693 persons. It shows that extensive interrogations were carried out. On the basis of the document as far as I remember I can say that in the course of the use of Special Kommando VII-A.in this document, it was based on orders of the Army. Any action against these partisans took place under the leadership of the Army. The action lasted from ten or twelve days, if I remember correctly, including the interrogations carried out. The interrogations were not carried out only by Special Kommando VII-A but jointly with members of the Secret Field Police.
The sentences were not imposed by Foltis alone, the leader of the Sonderkommando, but after the review and investigation, the sentences were imposed after a deliberation by Foltis and army officers.
I do not know myself who carried out the execution. The document does not say anything about that either. I assume that members of my kommando, as well as parts of the Army, participated in this. This same report of the 9th of October also shows that the number of executions of the kommando increased to 1252. That is from the 13th of September an increase of 241 executions are shown. It seems necessary for me to cite two statements which are also contained in the original document. On page 7 of the original the document says - this report is not in the document book - that Special Kommando 7a, in connection with the arrest group of the Army Command, did, on several days and in several localities, carry out several actions against partisan groups in that area. Furthermore, some more localities were cleaned out. During these actions all in all, 7 partisans were arrested and liquidated." End of quotation. At another place the report contains another reference according to which eight persons were arrested and executed at another locality. I cite these events to show why this number of executions increased from beginning of September to the end of September and to explain this increase. of the German, page 14 of the original, the fact which is emphasized by the prosecution is mentioned here, according to which Special Kommando 7a executed juvenile communists because of their intention to destroy a railroad bridge. The document here lists a repetition of one event in two versions, one after the other. One time it is reported, and I quote: "Special Kommando 7a reports of juvenile communists who were liquidated because they intended to destroy a railroad bridge which had been almost finished. Explosives had already been acquired and had been made available." Then the text continues: "In Wilikie Luki too, there were a group of youthful persons who were rendered harmless who intended to blow up a railroad bridge. The leader of the group had persuaded its members to participate in this."
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Mayer, now this does appear in the document book which is before us. What is accomplished by his reading it verbatim to us, what is the purpose of that?
DR. MAYER: The witness will explain this right now.
THE PRESIDENT: When he has an explanation of an item which appears in the document book it is enough if he calls our attention to the particular item and then makes the explanation. It is unnecessary to read literally every word of an item which is on the bench here before us.
DR. MAYER: Yes, Your Honor. Witness, please remember this.
(Continuing) As far as I remember, this is the same incident which actually happened in Welikie Luke where there was a subkommando of mine. There was evidence, that investigation showed, that juvenile communists had gathered together and had worked out a plan to blow up a bridge. The explosives had been acquired and they were right before accomplishing this deed. The incident was considered an offense against the existing directions. As far as the expression "youthful Communists" or "juveniles" is concerned may not Le clear. May I point out that in the same document in the original text, on the original page 9 which is not in this book, it is reported of juveniles, and it is added there, "on the ages of 16 to 22 years of age." The expression "juveniles" never refers to childred but to persons who are at least fifteen years of age or older, and in view of the use of such juvenile people, as it was conscientiously directed by the Bolshevist side, in this way such sentences must be understood, since those juveniles had to be considered and treated as fully responsible people. I personally do not know whether in this case these are eighteen years old or sixteen years old, but certainly these were not children. I still remember this event and it happened during my period of command.
DR. MAYER: Your Honor, after having discussed this report No. 108 of the 9th of October 1941, the following reports, numbered after 109 up to 122, bring no more reports about the activity of Special Kommando 7a. I shall prove this fact in my document book by showing these various excerpts.
Q. (By Dr. Mayer) Witness, in Document Book II-B look at operational Report No. 124 of the 25th of October 1941, Exhibit No. 65, Document NO-3160, on page 54 of the English text and page 48 of the German book. Please comment on the executions of 63 Communists, NKHD-functionaries, and agitators listed here.
A. Without being able to say anything above the number from memory, that is to say whether the number is correct or too low or too high, I refer to my statements which I have already made about the treatment of Communist functionaries and other Communist resistance forces. As far as I remember, it is certain that as far as these executions which are listed here are concerned it is not a one-time collective action but a compilation which extended over a longer period of time of those cases in which persons were found who *---*tive Communists or agents of the Bolshevist Party actively led *---*partisan warfare. I do not exclude that one or the other was *---*ted for arson or some individual action and was executed; but *---*ally these are partisans whose membership and function in the *---*st Party had been determined.
THE PRESIDENT: Witness, for clarification, you say that basically these were partisans whose membership in the Communist Party had been determined. In order to execute a partisan, did you first establish that he was a member of the Communist Party?
THE WITNESS: No, the partisan activity was determined, and as I have already said, already existing lists gave information about the activity of the persons or his functions which he held in the Communist Party and which was now determined when the individual concerned was arrested as a partisan.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, if the person arrested was proved to be a partisan that in itself was enough for his execution, was it not?
THE WITNESS: Yes, that was sufficient to execute him.
THE PRESIDENT: And, then when you say his membership in the Communist Party had been determined, that merely means in addition to partisan activities he was also a member of the Communist Party?
THE WITNESS: Yes, that is purely an additional determination.
PRESIDENT: All right.
Q. (By Dr. Mayor) Witness, in the same document further down it lists the execution of 272 Jews and Jewesses in a place called Sadrudubs who were supposed to have been taken into a village of Belowschtschina which had been set up as a ghetto. Can you remember this?
A. No, I never received such a message, neither in written form nor orally.
Q. When did you hear these town names, Belowschtschina and Sadrudubs, for the first time?
A. When here during my interrogation in Nurnberg in June of this year. The text just cited by you was read by me. That is when I heard them for the first time.
Q. What can you comment on this report?
A. The report at hand does not say that the Special Kommando 7a carried out such an operation. Special Kommando 7a is mentioned in the text two paragraphs before in connection with the execution of 63 Communists. Thus it does not say expressly here that this operation, Sadrudubs, was carried out by Special Kommando 7a. It seems to be, to me, only a conclusion, if one assumes that from the sequence of the reports, this execution also refers to Special Kommando 7a, but, as I have already said, outside of that the names of these villages are completely strange to me.
At no time during my leadership of the Kommando did I send the Kommando VII-A or parts of it to such villages, and no such action at such a place was ever reported to me. Even now during my imprisonment I could not find these places on any map which was given to me. I could not find any place, Sadrudubs, or any place sounding similarly which is in my area. The same is true of the place Belowschtschina. I am sure that the event reported here did not take place in my area of commend and that no part of my kommando participated in this operation.
Q. Have you any other point of views which makes it appear impossible that this operation took place in your Jurisdictional area?
A. Yes, the already discussed document in Book II-B, Exhibit No. 60, of the 9th of October, 1941, on page 21 of the English and page 21 of the German, page 20 of the original. This shows that the Special Kommando 7a, as of the 28th of September, had carried out 1252 executions. This was the status subsequent to this partisan action. At this opportunity I would like to point out that at this time the neighboring Kommando 7b reports the executions of 1544 people. That is, 7a is listed with 1252 and 7b is listed with 1544 persons.
THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment, please, Dr. Mayer. There seems to be some confusion in my book. Page 21 does not carry the items which have been listed. What document number?
DR. MAYER: This is Document NO-3156, Exhibit No 60, operational report No. 108, and this is a compilation on the last page of the operational report.
THE PRESIDENT: What happened in my book is that page 20 was omitted and then 21 was misnumbered. However, I have a corrected book before me and you may proceed.
A. (Continuing) Yes. I would merely like to determine that this figure of 1252 is charged to Kommando 7a, the Sonderkommando, and 1554 executions are charged to 7b lying in its southern proximity.
I would like to compare this with Exhibit 63 in Book II-B of the 26th of October, 1941, Report No. 125. A comparison with this and that of the 26th of October shows that from the report of the 9th of October, which we have just discussed, the execution number of Kommando 7a increases from 1252 to 1344. Thus from the operational report of the 9th of October to that of the 26th of October an increase of 92 executions is determined for Kommando 7a. On the other hand, a comparison with the execution figures of 7b shows an increase of 278. In order to carry out this comparison be a conclusion: Since the 9th of October up to the period of this report, it is reported that the Kommando 7a had executed 63 Communists. If these Jews in Sadrudubs were to be included in this, no increase of only 92 people could ever be determined. This comparison proves that the man making out the report either at the Group or in Berlin did not include the 272 Jews in his report of 25 October of Kommando 7a. At least, it may be assumed that they were included under 7b, and this assumption becomes very probably since in no report after the 9th of October until the report of the 26th of October any executions are reported on the part of 7b. Therefore, the increase under 7b by 278 people is only comprehensible if the report about Sadrudubs refers to 7b. to 7b is to be found in the report of the 26th of October, Book II-B, Exhibit No. 63, Document NO-3403, Page 41 of the English, page 40 of the German, page 2 of the original. There it says, one day after the report about the Jews in Sadrudubs, that the Special Kommando 7b had secured 46,700 rubles in cash, and I quote, "which were found in possession of a number of Jews having been liquidated," no mention is made of 7a in reference to money which has been delivered from Jews.
in the area of 7b. On the other hand, a town Starudub, is mentioned in the reports of September and October as garrison of 7b. This is in the operational report No. 90 of the 21st of September and likewise in the operational Report No. 123 of the 24th of October. That is one day before the alleged action at Sadrudub. Both reports are in my document books in excerpts. The operational report No. 90 on the 5th page of the original, and I quote, "Special Kommando 7b, up to the 8th of September, had its headquarters in Gomel, and had several localities," - and here are some names and Starudub is mentioned here - "and had these occupied by its subkommandos." Then in the operational report of 24th of October, and I quote: "Sonderkommando 7b determined that in the vicinity of Starudub 102 partisans were found there." The city of Starudub is situated several hundred kilometers south of my garrisons in the district of Tschernikow. The fact that the village of Belowschtschina, according to an affidavit, according to an expert opinion to be submitted here, is to be found several kilometers southwest of Starudub might explain the fact, together with the other viewpoints mentioned, that the action reported in the operational report of the 25th of October about Sadrudub really refers to the town of Starudub, and the above mentioned action was actually carried out by Special Kommando 7b. The corruption of the names may be the result of a fault in the radio communications or is a typographical error. The number of letters is the same in both cases. At least I can say that my kommando 7a, at my time, was neither in Sadrudub nor in Starudub nor did it execute Jews or Jewesses.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Mayer, might we recess now?
The Tribunal will be in recess for fifteen minutes.)
(A recess was taken.)
Court No. II, Case No. IX
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. MAYER (ATTORNEY FOR THE DEFENDANT STEIMER) Your Honor, may I proceed with my direct examination?
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed, Dr. Mayer.
(By Dr. Mayer) Witness, I want to show you the report of events of the 14th of November 1941. It is in Document Book II-B. It is Exhibit No. 59, Document No-2825. It is on page 12 of the English Document Book and on page 10 of the German Document Book. It is the Einsatz report and it says on the page next to the last page that Sonderkommando 7a, in the time of reporting, carried out 173 executions. Can you remember these executions? It is also not mentioned in the text what persons are shot and where. According to the period of reporting and according to the dates, it must mean the time between the 10th of October until the end of October. During this time, I was in the advanced Kommando of 7A marching towards Wyazma and Wyazma Utask, and marching towards Kalinin. In this subkommando no executions were carried out at that time. As far as actual executions were carried out, that can only have happened in the mentioned reporting period in Welikie Luki and in Welisch. These two kommandos moved in the direction of Smolensk at the end of October. Either they reported to the Group Staff there or they reported at a later date by teletype message.
I can certify that in October I made no reports. The actual facts which I know are that in Welisch, as well as in Welikie Luki, during the course of October, activity was increased and actions were carried out against partisans together with the Wehrmacht. As far as executions were carried out at all by my kommando either directly or in connection with the Wehrmacht, they refer to partisans and other resistance parts of movements. It is therefore a combination of all executions in the territories around Welikie Luki and Welisch, but I would like to point out that I cannot confirm the number of executions.
Court No. II, Case No. IX.
this, for instance, points 3 and 5, these individual actions mentioned here do not refer to my kommando and have not been carried out by it. This can be proved in each case. and Jews, this refers to the shootings in Mogilew. Einsatzkommando 8 is mentioned in connection with Mogilew. That is on page 17 of this original document.
The following executions in Wyazma are reported to have been carried out by EK 9. Then in the action mentioned in Point 5, there again Mogilew is mentioned as the garrison for the Einsatzkommando 8. Then the following paragraph of Point 5 refers to the location of a garrison at Asmoni. This village Asmoni is again mentioned on page 17 of the original of this report, but it says Esmoni here with an "E", "Esmoni" and I quote, "It is 40 kilometres to the north west of Mogilew". Mogilew is, as I have already mentioned, the garrison of Einsatzkommando 8. The EK 8 is also charged with executions against Jews which are mentioned in this third paragraph. It is further mentioned in this report that Gorki is northeast of Mogilew. The next location, which is Mistislawl, is said to be 80 kilometres to the east of Mogilew. The further operations refer to Mogilew. From these locations it becomes quite evident that 7A did not participate in these operations and did not carry them out. December 1941. It is in Document Book II-B, Exhibit 62, Document NO2824 on page 30 of the English and 31 of the German. Did your kommando participate in these individual actions mentioned here? Naumann, who mentions the locations which are mentioned in this particular report and he made statements concerning these locations. He said that none of these villages were within the field of actions of Special Kommando 7A at that time. This is correct. Without much difficulty I could, using the names of villages, confirm and establish which kommando Court No. II, Case No. IX.
was in charge. I could find out by using the names of the locations which are mentioned in this document and if the Situation Report of 3 days later of the 22d of December is used, it is easy to establish this, which is on page 15 of the English Document Book III-B and on page 17 of the German. Apart from this remark, I can only repeat that my kommando had nothing to do with these executions which are mentioned in Document NO-2824, Exhibit No. 62 and in the Report of Events of the 19th of December, 1941. events, No, 154 in II-A, 162 in Volume III-B and l68 in Book III-A. No. 154 is Exhibit No. 51. It is Document No-3273. It is on 105 of the English Document book and 113 of the German. The Report 162 is Exhibit No. 122, Document NO-4784, on page 53 of the English Document Book and page 82 of the German Book, and Report 168 is Exhibit No. 107 and Document KO-4533 on page 45 of the English Book and 63 of the German Book. All these reports name you as the leader of Special Kommando 7A. They are of January and February, 1942, and do not carry any reports of Einsatzgruppe B. Please, will you comment on this briefly? 10th of December 1941, I went on leave, from which I should have returned on the 15th of January normally. During this leave, I asked for relief via the SS and Police Leader in Stuttgart, who was my immediate superior. The reasons I gave were that my teeth had to be treated. This request for relieve was not complied with, because I had to submit a certificate by a dentist. This I did. The long channel caused my prececessor to be prevented from arriving immediately and, therefore, automatically my name was mentioned as the leader of Kommando 7b. I should like to emphasize again that after my return from Russia to Stuttgart on the 20th of December, 1941 - that is, I arrived on the 20th of December, 1941 in Stuttgart - I did not return to my kommando. This was by permission of my superiors.
the Reich Security Main Office. In what position and how long were you employed in the Office 6 of the RSHA? was active in this office until the end of the war. I was in charge of Group 6b and from August 1944, apart from this activity, I took over a department Mil B -- that means Military Office B. That means the military office of the RSHA.
Q What were the assignments of Office 6? task to deal with political reporting in enemy occupied and neutral territories.
Q What do you mean "political, report", "political information service." ities of war importance of enemy, neutral, and occupied territories. This I did just like any political information service for any other state: to receive news on secret, political and other matters of war importance. One could describe this activity as political espionage.
Court No. II, Case No. IX.
Q Witness, when was Office 6 in existence?
A I think since 1939. It had no tradition and no experience. There were no experienced people with any knowledge of foreign countries as collaborators and because of the war such assistants could not be found. There was a lack of understanding on the part of the Chiefs for the tasks of such an information service. Hitler refused to recognize our activity at times because he did not want to be irritated by the adversaries. Ribbentrop refused to recognize it because it was not under his leadership. special operations? Portugal.
Q How was your service organized? ordinated to me and in the countries themselves we maintained organizations who dealt with information services and people who were employed in these services. tried to change the Spanish foreign policy, a political and economical Spanish-English treaty was brought about. In this case the collaborators of the service succeeded in receiving secret information and through this they obtained the exact wording of the contract. utilized? situation in these countries and were passed to competent German authorities, and individual reports were immediately submitted to the authorities. German political refugees abroad, to watch them and to fight against them?
Court No. II, Case No. IX.
Mil, what was this?
Q What was this office? tion Service be created. This meant an organizational combination of the military espionage service which had been up to that moment under the OKW, which was called up to than Counter-Intelligence with the Political Information Service of Office 6. That is a cooperative Counter-Intelligence. Military espionage from this point on became the military office in the RSHA and was combined with the Office 6 as The German Secret Information Service. That is what it was called. Schellenberg who was the office chief of Office 6 took over this office Military, so that these two offices had a personnel union. In this development I became Department Chief in Department B of this military office and I remained at the same time Group Chief of 6 B.
Q What were your tasks as Chief of Mil B? leadership of the military espionage service against the Western Allies. Excluded from this field of activities was the so-called frontal enlightment, that is, Military Intelligence in the enemy operational territory. This was the task of another individual organization, while my department only dealt with territory behind the front lines. vice within your office? Service. According to your statements, you already dealt with these matters when you were in Stuttgart. How was that?
A I had always been very interested in foreign policy. There Court No. II, Case No. IX.