Therefore, I attach particular importance to whether the defendant remembers when these epileptic fits occurred again....
THE PRESIDENT:Dr. Gick, it isn't necessary for you to keep emphasizing the malady with which the witness is afflicted thereby only emphasizing in his mind the situation. Let us proceed immediately now to the issue.
DR. GICK:I shall be as rapid as possible.
THE PRESIDENT:It isn't a matter of being rapid. It is a matter of getting to the issue. Dr. Gick, now please do that.
DR. GICK:Herr Strauch, In order to give a short picture of your personal conditions, again please tell us what you did after you left high school.
THE PRESIDENT:Dr. Gick, now you are doing just exactly what the Tribunal to..d you not to do. Now will you please listen to what we say, Dr. Gick. We are having more difficulties with you than we have with the witness. Now please immediately get to the issue and the issue is not whether he graduated from high school. I think the Prosecution will admit that? The Prosecution very generously admits that the witness graduated from high school.
DR. GICK:Your Honor, I deem it necessary to give the Tribunal a picture of the personality and development of the defendant so that the Tribunal will be in a position to recognize what mental and professional development the defendant had which seem to me of great importance for the judgment of his deeds. Therefore, I went to deal very briefly with his professional training.
THE PRESIDENT:Well Dr. Gick, can't you get - you have got him out of high school, now, he is a grown-up man. Get into the field of activity, of his life's activity. BY DR. GICK:
Q.Yes, I can do that. Well, then I want to start with the period when the defendant became politically active for the first time, Your Honor. Herr Strauch, will you tell the Tribunal now in what way you became politically active for the first time?
A.First I was a member of the "Jung Deutschen Orden" because I was of the opinion that Communism had to be fought. Therefore, I joined the German-Sweden. It was an organization which sometimes increased and sometimes decreased and I don't remember exactly, but I think I joined the Deutsche Orden in 1937. That was the year, I believe, which I joined.
Q.What was this organization? What were the tasks of the Jung Deutschen Orden?
A.Well, the tasks, the idea was to protect the German Nation and to get the light back into the German people. therefore, it was the belief that in this field it could become active.
A.Was not the task of the Jung Deutschen Orden to fight Communism?
Q.Certainly. There was only communism and bougeosie in Germany and then it was the right, the political right, that nothing else could be discovered and one had to fight this state of affairs. We fought Communism with the few people we had. please excuse me, it is a little difficult again. We wanted to fight Communism and as we had experienced the war a short while ago and because there was no air as a consequence of the War it was very difficult to live, and so on, and, it was no longer possible to go on.
QFor how long were you a member of Jung Deutsche orden? Did you understand me?
ANo, I don't understand you.
QI asked you for how long you were a member of the Jung Deutsche Orden?
AI was member of Jung Deutsche orden in 1915, I think, until 1925. I don't remember exactly.
QDidn't you only join in 1926?
A yes, of course, 1926. I remember that when I joined the university then I joined the Jung Deutsche orden.
QWhen did you join the SA?
AThe SA I joined on 8 September, I think, 1931. Then I joined the SS......
QJust a moment. Let us remain with SA for a little while. Why did you join the SA?
AWhy? I was of the opinion that if one did have to join an organization for political reasons then one must join the NSDAF.
QYou mean SA which you joined?
AThe SS and at the same time I joined the SS. Again, therefore, in 19 - - - The SA, then the SS, and finally in 1943 -- is it all clear?
QBefore you joined the SA did you leave the Jung Deutsche orden?
AYes in 1927 I left the Jung Deutsche orden, I think, 1924.
QIn any case you left. Why did you do that and why did you join the SA?
ABecause I wanted join a political party. I wanted to join a Party which one could decently join.
QWhat were the aims of the SA at the time.
AThe aims of the SA were at thee time -- during the proceeding time -- I and my comrades -- my comrades suggested to me to join the SS-
comrades who were members of the Party and to fight for Germany. Under the conditions, therefore, seeing that Germany would be lost, therefore, one had to be a member of a Party which one could decently join.
QWhich formation did you join after you joined the SA?
AI beg your pardon.
QWhat formation did you join after you joined the SA?
AAfter I joined the SA I joined the Party and after the SA Party, and then the SS.
QWhen did you join the SS?
AThe SS I joined, I think, in August, I think in August.
QWhat year?
A 19 - - -, I think -- I believe, in 1930. Then in 1931 I joined the Party. No, in 19 - - - I joined the Party in 1932 and 1933 I joined the SS.
QHerr Strauch, did you not join on 10 January 1932 the SS?
ANo.
QA nd did you not join on 1 August 1932 the Party?
ANo. If there is material you can produce for being given to me I can certify it and comment on it.
QWhen did you join the SS and when did you join the Party?
A 1931 I joined the Party, 1932 the Party -- 1933 the SS.
QWhy did you leave the SA, Herr Strauch to join the SS?
AI wanted rather to be a member of the SS because it was more to my liking. The general conditions were better.
QCould you explain to the Tribunal what you mean.
AI was of the opinion that the SS, this was a better organization.
Q you mean the best organization?
AThe better organization.
QOrganization for what purpose?
AOur task was mainly to protect the Fuehrer. For instance, when somebody came -- it's all right -- I have heard that -- when any fights or incidents of that kind took place they were shot at by our people and they were fought by our organization, that is the SS.
QDid you ever hold any office Within the Party?
ANo, not in the Party itself but only in the Party where tasks were carried out, such as being a Scharfuehrer -
QYou mean the SS?
AYes, the SS.
QWill you then tell us about your career in the SS?
AI was admitted to the SS and joined the SS and we had mainly to protect the territories and I can't say what else. mainly, however, our main task was the protection of - -
Q protection of what?
AOf the members and so on, Goering, when he came to Essen, etc.
QWere you during your membership in the SS not also being trained for being a referendar? Did you not also receive a law training.
AI beg your pardon.
QAs referendar, legal assistant, you had a training period of three years.
A yes.
QThere years. Therefore, were you not during that time a member of the SS? A member of the SD I mean.
ASS.
QSS or SD member?
ASD.
QDuring 31 you were still referendar?
AI was an ordinary referendar.
I received my legal training.
QYou were at the same time amember of the SS?
AYes, during the same time I was member of the SS.
QDid you have the opportunity to become active in the SS?
ADuring the time of preparation I did not do anything as all our comrade.
QDid you not have any service with the SS storm troop.
ANo, we had none.
QPlease go on with your career. What other jobs did you hold in the SD?
AI was gradually promoted. Well, I was a legal official first. Then I was examined by the Internal Administration, by the Internal Administration. I was taken over by the Internal Administration.
QBut that is not what we are talking about. We are speaking about your career in the SS.
A yes, I wasin the Administration. That is completely correct what I said -- in the Internal Administration, as referendar.
QHerr Strauch, how did it come about that you joined the Security Service.
AI beg your pardon.
QHow did you join the Security Service?
AI was to join the Security Service, the administration and Security Sector. I received the order to report to the Sector and I was to report there -- was to report there.
QWho ga ve you the order?
AThe order waspassed on to me by the supreme commander.
QWhat supreme commander?
ARhineland. But my commanding officer did not went to have me transferred he wanted to keep me.
QYou mean your Commander in the SS?
AYes.
QWas that the SS-section officer in Essen?
AYes. What was his name?
QWhat was his name? It doesn't matter. Anyway, it was the SS-section chief, Essen, who passed on the order to you. Witness, what order did he give you?
AHe gave me the order to take over the office in Essen and then I was to take over the sector in Dortmund.
QWhat job was that, the SS-section?
AYes, the SS-section.
QOr is it the SD-sector?
ASD, of course, SD sector.
QSD sector?
AYes, SD sector.
QDid you have any idea of the task that you were expected to fulfil with the security service?
ANo, not at all, I never knew what happened. I had no idea what they were doing there.
QWhat was your first task in the security service?
AThe Security service was very small and something had to be organized and built up before one started with the organization. Everything that has been said here I can only confirm.
QWhat was your activity at the beginning, I mean your SD activity?
AYou mean my SD activity? Yes, the worst for me was, or the most important thing was to organize the organization and to build up something, to build up an information and news service.
QWhere?
AFirst it was in Dortmund and then again in Dortmund.
QWere you not first in Essen?
AYes, yes, first I was in Essen.
QIn the branch office, Essen.
AYes, Branch Office, Essen, but I left Essen soon and that chapter was closed.
QWhat did you do after that?
ANo, I went first to Riga.
QWhere did you go?
AFirst to Essen. Then I remained in Dortmund, and remained in Dortmund.
QWere you then in charge of the Security Sector for the district of Arnsberg?
AYes.
QHow long did you hold that position?
AYou mean in Dortmund?
QYes.
AI think eight or ten years.
QUp to what year then?
AI think for eight or ten years.
QHerr Strauch, please give us a brief description concerning the tasks and the manner of working of your security service which you were in charge of.
AI had to cope with the tasks which came in, to collect tasks, and during the - within the population to collect names and activities and to pass these on to the the superior office which again passed it on, and collect them somehow, and that was the task, to transfer them to the superior office and thus to conclude this.
QDid you hold any other tasks besides?
ANo.
QWas it, for instance, your task to report people to the station police whom you suspected?
ANo, we never had anything to do with the state police.
QWere you active fulltime in the security service?
AI said that, no, I had nothing to do with it, that is the state police, and I refused to work for the state police in any manner whatsoever, and it was thus that a number of comrades of mine suggested to me that I should occupy myself with other things. There was one, or at least two, which matter somewhat, but I said, "Here I have my directives, and I only have to collect information, and there is nothing else that I want to do."
QYou said already that it was not your fulltime job in the SD. What, then, was your fulltime job, your professional job?
AWell, my orders and my salary, I received from the secret state police, not the state police, but from the I can't remember.
QThe interior administration?
AThat is what it was, the interior administration, and I could manage with this.
QTherefore, apart from your activity with the SD, which was an honorary activity, you were an official of the interior administration?
AYes, and those were the ones who paid me.
QFor how long were you the chief of the security sector of the district Arnsberg?
AI arrived there on the . . . .
QHow long was it?
AWhen I went to what-you-may-call-it, that is Koenigsberg, I immediately took my wife with me because I reckoned with difficulties.
QJust a moment, Herr Strauch, we are not in Koenigsberg yet.
At the moment we are still in Dortmund, managing district Arnsberg.
AWhat do you mean, at the beginning of the war?
QYou were security chief of Sector Arnsberg in Dortmund. How long was that?
AOh, that is what you mean. There I was from -When was it that I started? That was in -- Well, I was in Rot.... and there I remained for seven years I think.
QSeven years? That is until the year '41, is that right?
AUntil 1941 -- You mean from on up to-- Yes, but I arrived there until the year 1941. I don't know when it was that I started. That must have been in 19-- probably in 19--, I really cannot remember. I should like to say the following. I believe - I want to say the following - I was taken there 1626. I was taken there and then I was separated and simultaneously I was assessor and assistant lawyer. I don't know when I arrived. I would have to look deeper into matters.
QLet's recollect. You were the leader of your "SS" sector in Dortmund and that was in the year 1934. Do you remember that?
A '34? No. In '34 I was a section leader, an Abschnittsfuehrer.
QYes. Now I ask you, for how long did you remain the section chief in this district?
AUntil when?
QYes, I asked you until when.
AUntil the beginning of '34.
QThat is when you became section chief, and for how long did you remain a section chief?
AAnd then -- Well now, I left in 1920 as far as I recollect and then in '20 yes, I think it must have been '20, I come to Koenigsberg. That is approximately how it was.
QYou mean '20 you went to Koenigsberg?
AYes.
QHerr Strauch, if I may repeat, in 1934 you went to Arnsberg as a section chief and you remained in that position until 1941. Do you remember whether that is correct?
A 1940 to Koenigsberg? That is quite impossible.
QUntil 1940 you were in Dortmund.
ANo, that is impossible.
QHow is it according to your recollection?
AAccording to my recollection it was in 1930 that I I don't remember.
QYou can't remember that? Do you remember that your activity as section chief in Dortmund was interrupted on repeated occasions. Do you remember that? Do you understand what I asked you?
AThat in 1940, the war started in 1941, and 1941 I went to Russia, or the middle of '40, of '40 I went to Russia, and then I first was under Stahlecker.
QYou are mixing up a number of incidents, anticipating certain events.
AYes
QNow, pay attention to what I am going to tell you. Do you remember that during your activity with the sector in Dortmund, you repeatedly did something else just them cope with your SD activity?
AThat is what I said from the very beginning, that it is very difficult to concentrate. I can't even keep that thing on, the earphones on.
THE PRESIDENT:Dr. Gick, we will anticipate the recess by five or ten minutes, and I would suggest that when we reconvene after the recess that you begin with the year 1939. He will have had a little rest, his energies may be refreshed, and then we can get immediately to the issue. Later on, if you believe that it is important, then you can go back in to the period prior to 1939, but now that we have him here and he is oriented, let's get to the issue. So I would suggest that after recess you do that.
The Tribunal will now be in recess for fifteen minutes.
( A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL:The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. BELZER:Dr. Belzer for the defendant Graf. Your Honor, I would like to ask that, for the further preparation of his defense, the defendant Graf be excused from attendance in court this afternoon.
THE PRESIDENT:The defendant Graf will be excused from attendance in court this afternoon.
QDr. Gick, it will be permissible within reasonable limits for you to lead the witness, so that the amount of talking that he will need to do will be reduced to a minimum. You can take him right up to a situation, and then put the question to him.
DR. GICK:Very well, Your Honor. your Honor, I had my earphones on , and thus I was not able to hear the English translation. During the recess it was pointed out to me that the testimony of the witness didn't come through in the English translation as it was said originally by the witness. What the defendant said here as a witness appeared in the German as rather confused German, in fact, completely confused. I understand the fact that it is difficult to translate the words of the witness in such a manner that the Tribunal gets the impression exactly as given by the witness. But I think it necessary, that the translation, in order to give you a correct impression, give every word the defendant says, no matter what nonsense it is.
THE PRESIDENT:Now Dr. Gick -
DR. GICK:Even that repititions are also mentioned.
THE PRESIDENT:Just a moment, please, Dr. Gick. Now, we will instruct you not to keep referring to the defendant's condition, to nonsense, and so on. You proceed with the examination. The Court will determine whether it is nonsense or not, and we are not aware there were any libertics taken with the translation, but if any mistakes occur in the translation, and they are pointed out to the Tribunal later, or even now if you know exactly which ones they were, the corrections will be made.
Now let's proceed immediately to the issue. 1939, what happened?
DR. GICK:In order to bring this up again, may I ask the interpreter be asked that every word be translated.
THE PRESIDENT:We have the utmost faith in the interpreter, and that will be done without any additional admonition or request on the part of the Tribunal.
DR. GICK:Very well. BY DR. GICk:
QHerr Strauch, we were talking about the year 1941. At that time you were still Section Chief?
AWell, when was I supposed to have arrived?
QWe were discussing before the recess the year 1941. At that time you were Section Chief in Dortmund?
AYes.
QWhat office did you take over after the year 1941?
AI cannot understand at all.
QThat is all right. You should merely answer.
AYou mean -
QAfter the year 1941, after concluding your work as Section chief in Dortmund, where were you transferred to ?
AYes. Yes.
QDo you understand my question?
AYes, I understand the question.
QPlease, answer it?
AI think I understand the question.
QYou don't understand the question then?
AYes, I think I do Understand it.
QThen please will you reply to it?
AYes, I was -- well -- there was the meeting, and I already discussed that I was to go somewhere else, and the Section Chief said - -
THE PRESIDENT:Witness. Witness, will you please direct your attention to the Tribunal. Where were you in the year 1941?
THE wITNESS: I beg your pardon?
THE PRESIDENT:Where were you in the year 1941?
THE WITNESS:Well, Your Honor, I always get the German. I always hear you speaking in German. I don't know that much German.
THE PRESIDENT:Where were you in the year of 1941?
THE WITNESS:In the year of 1941, I was in Koenigsberg.
THE PRESIDENT:All right, Proceed Dr. Gick. BY DR. GICK:
QIn the year of 1941 you were transferred to Koenigsberg then?
AYes. No answer.
QWhat office did you take over there?
AThe Government Counsellor Office.
QI don't understand you?
AThe Government Counsellor's Office.
QThe Government Counsellor's Office, is that right? Herr Strauch, please think what you are saying. You could not have taken over the Government Counsellor's Office?
ANo, I didn't take it over. I took over one department in the Government Counsellor's Office, that is what I took over. The Government Counsellor's Office in the police - - the subject of - - - in the police county counsellor, senior government, that is too main government.
QIn Koenigsberg there is a district government?
AYes.
QWere you with the district government?
ANo. There are two government. There is one main government, and another government.
THE PRESIDENT:Counsel, please, please, now Dr. Gick, you know from the document, and from the personnel record, of Eduard Strauch, that since 4 November 1941 he was leader of Einsatzcommando Latvia, two. so begin with the date, November 4th, 1941. you know what he is charged with in the documents. Take up the document immediately and have him give whatever explanations. Counsel, you may begin with. when he actually arrived in Russia, or, when he was assigned to go to Russia, but this is a crux of the charges against him, what he did in the East, and, if you want to go back later, you may. You may lead two witness to that point.
DR. GICK:Your Honor, It is very difficult for me to conduct this direct examination here, because in my opinion I don't have a man in front of me with whom I can conduct this examination in a normal manner. I was just about - -
THE PRESIDENT:That is quite obvious to the Tribunal, and for this reason we said that you may lead the witness. you know your case. you know what he is charged with.
DR.GICK: yes, I am just about to clarify that point.
THE PRESIDENT:Very well.
QHerr Strauch, when did you come to Koenigsberg?
AI came to Koenigsberg about 20 -- 22--22 of January -- 22 February Nineteen Hundred and -- 22d January Nine Hundred and -- Well, as far as I know -
QWhat office did you take over in Koenigsberg
AOf course I took over an office with the SD.
QHow long were you in Koenigsberg then?
AIn Koenigsberg, I was -- Just a moment -
THE PRESIDENT:Dr. Gick, you don't need to labor over a date. If he doesn't think of it, you may supply it. We don't need to linger and work and puzzle over things which can easily be found in the record and which you undoubtedly know, so help the witness.
DR. GICK:Your Honor, may I comment on this very briefly? It is my opinion that the most important part is to hear what the defendant has to reply himself to may questions, and, if I lead him and he answered a leading which I put to him, this would not give exactly the same impression which the defendant would give otherwise.
THE PRESIDENT:We don't mean that you should lead him on a very vital point, but the matter of when he left Koenigsberg, if it is in the documents, you needn't worry him with that, and, incidentally, it is the first time, Judge Speight observes, that we have heard a lawyer objecting to leading a witness.
DR. GICK:The special situation requires it, Your Honor. May I continue, Your Honor?
THE PRESIDENT:Please do. Q (BY DR. GICK) Herr Strauch, may I remind you that in Koenigsberg you were Section Chief of the SD, which is the same as in Dortmund, until the time when you were supposed and had to take over another office.
Do you know what office you were supposed to take over?
AI was transferred to Riga -
Q when did you receive this order that you were to go to Riga?
AThis work or this order -- this order for my work reached me on 2 January, as far as I know.
QSecond of January, what year?
AIn what year? Nineteen Hundred -- Nineteen Hundred -22 -- 20 -- 2d January 1920.
QHerr Strauch in 1941 you were in Koenigsberg. Then the order only could have reached you in the year 1941, is that right?
ANo, I do not think so.
QWhen do you think that the order reached you?
AWhen war started and the Russian campaign started. Yes, 1941 Is that right, 1941? And then 19-- I took over the kommando in Riga for a very brief period. I had to remain there and them in 1942 I was transferred form Riga to -what is that called again? I can't think of it. I will think of it in a moment. Just a moment. Rovno.
QHerr Strauch, it is important to give the Tribunal the date.
THE PRESIDENT:Mr. Glancy, just a moment, Dr. Gick. Mr. Glancy, will you please furnish the Tribunal with the document numbers, document books, and the pages which contain ther specific charges against this witness?
MR. GLANCY:Sir, that might be found in the Order of Presentation contained in Document Book III-A, Responsibility. of the Defendant Strauch.
THE PRISIDENT:Page?
MR. GLANCY:Page 2 of Document Book III-A. It begins with NO-2966 in Document Book III-A and continues on.
THE PRESIDENT:Yes.
MR. GLANCY:Do you have that, Sir?
THE PRESIDENT:Yes, I have it now, thank you. All right, proceed, Dr. Gick. Q (BY DR. GICK) Herr Strauch, please concentrate hard and try to remember when you received the order to take over the office in Riga.
AI can't say quite exactly. but I assume that -- I assume that in '44 -- that must have been in 1944.
QHerr Strauch, I want to remind you that in the first few days of November, 1941, you received a teletype message containing the order that you were to go to Riga, is that right?
AYes, yes,
QWhat happened after this?
AThat was not quite like that, but it is possible. No, it is not right. It isn't right.
QWhat is wrong here?
AThis teletype message was not this one. It was a teletype message where it was suggested to me in Riga to remain. I was told in this teletype message to remain in Riga.
QWhat happened as a result of that teletype message?
AIt was noted that I was not to leave Riga, but that I was to remain in Riga forever.
QThat you were to remain in Riga forever?
ANot forever, not to remain forever, but that I was to remain there constantly.
QDo you remember that at that time you broke your elbow and your upper arm again?
AYes.
QWhat was your reaction to that teletype message, I am asking you again?
AIt is quite simple. I wrote to my wife and told her -- now I probably would have to return to Berlin.
QYou would have to return to Berlin?
ANo, to Koenigsberg. I would have to return to Koenigsberg.
QBut you were in Koenigsberg. You were to go to Riga from Koenigsberg?
AWhere was I? O, like this -- that is how it was In Derrings I was in Koenigsberg and I waited there and wanted to get away and then there came my attempt to remain in Koenigsberg and since -- and since I did not want to remain in Koenigsberg, I made an attempt -- well, through a teletype message, I was trying to get away through this teletype message, and then I was told I would not be permitted. I could not -- or, rather, I could get leave, but that I had to go back to -- to -- what do you call it? To Frankfurt on the Oder River.