material? Can you give me further details upon this? sariats, were selected. All the organizations - that is, the Bolshevist party organizations, all public cultural organizations, archives, libraries, institutes, were established. Degrees of their importance were established. Individual offices and institutes, were marked down on the map accordingly and these materials were passed on to one particular expert to work out in his particular sphere. Did you take part in the preliminary discussions in the setting up of tasks for the Einsatzgruppe, at Berlin, Pretsch or Duben? I was to go to Berlin. or some other representatives, or did you receive instructions about the execution order? with Heydrich or Streckenbach before my departure or even after my return. My sole discussion was by telephone. It was a discussion with the adjutant Ploetz. Therefore, I received no instruction from anyone in Berlin concerning the execution order. or just information concerning the execution order?
A No, not even Nebe. Nebe gave me neither instructions nor information, neither in Warsaw nor in Minsk. did you receive any knowledge about the execution order?
Q Where?
naturally were mentioned and were discussed, but I myself - and I have to make a point in stating this - had no knowledge about the general elimination of Jewery, especially about the extermination of women and children... As I said, I had no knowledge and never received any knowledge. did it ever get the assignment, or, in your opinion, could the Einsatzkommando have received such order for executions?
A No. The advance Commando Moscow was special commando of the Reich Security Main Office. It was not an Einsatzkommando. And as a consequence of this, there was no need for me to pass on any instructions or give any orders. Vorkommando Moscow concluded?
A That was on the 14th of July. At that time I left Minsk.
Q That is, with the Advance Commando Moscow?
Q What was your next destiny?
A That was the Division Reich. It was a combat division actually, Combat Division for Moscow.
Q Where was it situated?
A The Division Reich was in the vicinity of Smolensk. About the garrison I was to find out from OAK-4.
Q Where was the army under AOK-4?
A That was stationed in Tolochino. That is half way to Smolensk.
Q Did you actually move there, to Tolochino? Were you stationed there? of AOK-4, on an estate, on a farm.
Q When was that?
then, and who were the men you negotiated with? staff, vonHelmbach. Helmbach? Furthermore, I gave him a full explanation of the purpose of the Advance Commando Moscow for the securing of archives material in Moscow. I furthermore gave him an explanation that it was of major importance to reach Moscow with the actual combat troops in order to secure the material undamaged and undestroyed, and in conclusion I asked him to issue a decree, an army decree, so that the advance units would be informed about this and would be able to support me. special assignment of your Commando, as the Commando for archive securing? about the consistency of the Commando, whether I had enough experts, and he asked me how I would behave in Moscow, and he was fully in agreement with this, in general.
Q what did he do? How did he express his approval in front of you? me that he would issue this army task, and he just said that he would issue it when Moscow actually would be taken, in due course. he explained to you and told you details about the military position of the garrison and direction of the Division Reich...did he talk to you about this? He explained to me about the fighting around Smolensk, which had been particularly severe, and for the first time had stopped the quick advance of the German troops, and he also mentioned in detail the garrison and the location of the Division Reich.
This was in a gap, a little further from Smolensk in the so-called Djelna Curve. He said that it would be good to wait for a few days until the AOK-4 itself would march into Smolensk as the road had been interrupted on various points.
Q What did you do then in Tolochino?
A I said that I arrived there on the 16th. I spoke to Helmbach on the 12th about, I sent a few quartermasters, in advance - and on the 23d I marched off in the direction of Smolensk with the AOK-4.
Q Then you stayed in Tolochino for quite some time. Did you have further discussions with Helmbach?
A I had two further discussions with Helmbach. One discussion just shortly before we reached Smolensk, because Smolensk was still being bombarded, a position had been built up in the vicinity of Smolensk; and a further discussion I had with Helmdach in the middle of August, which I shall come back to eventually. activity?
A That was not my assignment. Furthermore, I was in a combat zone. There was no possibility to carry out any executive activities. 23d of July 1941 --- you sent quartermasters in advance, didn't you? up quarters there? in the vicinity around Smolensk - the eastern part of the town still was in the hands of the Russians. Until the 4th of August there were heavy artillery fights, and practically until the 4th of August the town was bombarded by an immense number of Russian batteries. in Smolensk?
Smolensk. Only the water carriers were sent out to fetch back water at the wells.
Q Where about were you stationed in Smolensk? That was one of the few buildings which had not been fully occupied by troops, because it was only three hundred meters from the foremost front lines. administration?
Q Were there other units in this building?
Q Did you then go to your Division Reich from Smolensk? Division Reich, and I had given him a letter to the commander of Division Reich, in which I explained the purpose of my being on the way there, and that I should take up contact with him.
Q Did the commander react to this? ed me that the division would be withdrawn from the Djelna area, that it would be stationed there and that I should not go to beyond the Djelna curve.
Q Who was this commander?
Q When did you talk to him? the division while they were marching.
Q That title of Sturmbannfuehrer is that equal to a colonel? advance to Moscow with the Division Reich?
A Yes, I did say it in several discussions. I called on the division while it was stationed there, as well as the Commander Wunder, and some of his officers came to see me in Smolensk in order to clarify this question.
Q What did you arrange with the Division? Division to Moscow, that I would receive fuel and rations from the Division and that I would furthermore be able to use their signal service.
Q Who is "We" would advance with their Division?
Q What did you and your leaders do in Smolensk? to do for some time. Therefore I decided to inspect Smolensk which is a large city in the Russian territory and to look for archives and other valuable documentary material.
Q What did you do then for example?
A I inspected the archives of the town. The archives of the administrative district; all cultural organizations, institutions, universities, and other places like churches. Either as I said , I looked at them, and inspected them, or I marked them with notices and protective notices.
Q What were these protective notices you stuck there? in Minsk to print proclamations in the German and Russian languages which proclaimed to the population and soldiers that certain articles were under protection. For experience had taught that archives and documents were deliberately destroyed by the indigenous population and sometimes by our own troops through negligence.
A There were two big churches in Smolensk. One was the famous Cathedral of Smolensk which by the Russians had been turned into a museum. It was full of wonderful treasures such as crowns and other objects which were completely exposed. The other was a very famous and beautiful old Russian wooden church which was used as a central archive for the Russian Government.
I turned this cathedral over to a Russian orthodox minister and I had the objects taken away from the other church and I turned this church over to the catholic priest. The reason was to safeguard these treasures from plunder and spoliation. in Smolensk? have already said, the city was under artillery fire until the 4th of July, the whole town before the retreat of the Russians, was evacuated and dismantled and there were only a few inhabitants remaining who as a consequence of the battle had gone into hiding. The rest had escaped, and fled to the vicinity of the town of Smolensk. The town was practically empty of all population.
Q Therefore, no police actions or executions were carried out?
Q Nebe, and the group-staff had remained, isn't that so? You were alone with the VKN?
Q Did Nebe arrive with his group-staff in Smolensk and at what date?
Q Where were the accommodations for him and his group-staff? remaining buildings, he moved into another wing of the same building.
Q What kind of contact did you have with Nebe? Security Main Office. I did not look for such a point of contact either, because I had to deal with the marching of the Division Reich, and I was definitely marching with them.
Q Were there any actual personal tensions between you and Nebe? interpreters of my command for his purposes.
Q For what purposes were you to place them at his disposal?
A He wanted translation work to be done. He wanted contact with the town administration, and that in one case he even wanted interpreters for the police commander.
Q For what purposes?
Q For interpreting purposes? reference to your kommando? the part of my interpreters without my special approval. Furthermore, for reasons of our being stationed together in the same building, I demenaded strict separation between the group-staff and my own unit.
Q That, of course, increased the tension?
Q Why then did you not simply leave Smolensk? Smolensk created a completely new military position, a position which was decisive for the final phase of the campaign of this year; the Army and motorized units of the AOK-IV were taken away from the advanced direction of Moscow and were put into the position in the direction south of Chernikov-Kiev in order to eliminate the endangered flank. Among those transferred troops was also the Division Reich. A discussion with I/c Major I.G. Helrmbach in the middle of August, it must have been the 15th of August, revealed that Moscow would not be taken within a measurable space of time, therefore, the advance kommando Moscow became idle for weeks, even months. protective assignment? porate my kommando into the Einsatzgruppe B.
Q You mean the whole command?
Q What kind of thing was this special task going to be? in the East territory, that is in the vicinity of Smolensk. With this, of course, the nature of the assignment of my VKM would have changed completely and I would have been forced to most severe measures.
Q Did you accept? accepted it I would have been his subordinate.
Q Well, what did you do?
Q Where did you send this teletype message?
Q You mean the Reich Mein Security Office to Streckenbach?
Q Did you choose another way also? courier, in which I detailed my position, and the reasons for the wish for my release.
Q What was the result, were you released? On 20th of August I left Smolensk and went to Berlin.
Q Who received the order?
Q It was to you, was it not?
Q Did you take leave from Nebe? Or did you just leave without much ado? the responsibility for Vorkommando Moscow. superior command office?
secure files and archives in Mascow. I only reached Smolensk with this order, therefore, I had no reasons to send reports.
Q And you didn't do it?
A No, I didn't.
Q Did you make reports to the Einsatzgruppe B? Office directly and there was no point, there was no reason and no duty to report to Nebe. situation reports? during this trial, but I assure that these reports are not due to my own initiative. before I do so, will you give me some data you have on the VKM? order to establish the VKM. On 14 July I left Minsk; from the 16th to the 23rd of July I was in Tolochino;from the 23rd to the 4th of August I was by myself in Smolensk. That is, I was with the Vorkommando Moscow. That is the date when Smolensk was still being attacked. On 5 August the group-staff arrived in Smolensk, and as to this I was luckily united with the group-staff; from the 20th of August - - on 20 August at six o'clock I left Smolensk.
DR. ULMER: Your Honor, I am now forced to name a number of operational situation reports which unfortunately have not been submitted by the Prosecution. The use of these documents, however, has been promised me by Mr. Ferencz, who told me I could use them outside of court, and which I shall offer in evidence in my document book for the defense. May I put a few questions from the contents of these operational situation reports?
THE PRESIDENT: By all means. Since you have mentioned document books, the Tribunal would like to announce to defense counsel that we are informed that up to this point only two defense books have been prepared, and two are in the state of preparation. We would like to repeat that defense counsel should interest themselves in the immediate preparation of any documents which they intend to submit, so that we will not he confronted with a state of congestion towards the latter days of the trial. You may proceed.
DR. ULMER: Your Honor, as to my own case, and my own defense, I can say that my document book is being prepared very actively, it has already been stencilled, and it is only a matter of having them run down and translated. Therefore, shortly after my direct examination of the defendant Six, it will be submitted to the Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. BY DR. ULMER: operational situation report of Einsatzgruppe B covering the period o of July and August 1941. There is one operational situation report for instance, of the 9 of Julh 1941, which lists first of all the advance kommando Moscow, and states: "After negotiations in Minsk the Special Kommando VII-A is being transferred from the AOK-IX which is to march past Moscow to the newly formed armored AOK 4 to which an Advance Kommando is attached, including interpreters, and those who know the locality of Moscow under the command of Standartenfuehrer Dr. Six. The present AOK-IV has been turned into AOK-II, and the Sonderkommando VII B will be at the disposal of AOK IV". How do you explain the compilation of this report? it to Berlin. ferred from AOK IX, to AOK IV?
with my archive-assignment.
Q Would you have been able to carry on with your task? (Film not to be heard here). not have inspired my task as both Kommandos had completely different tasks. But this report, in my opinion, confirms my task's concerning the archives ahd the independence of the Advance Kommandos Moscow.
Q Why? one AOK which the Einsatzgruppe with its personnel status could not have afforded to carry out.
Q You mean a double staffing , in what way?
AA double staffing with the two kommandos. I mean, the same character, but if I really just simplify, VII-A was a special Einsatzkommando, and my unit was an Archive-kommando.
Q There is an operational situation report of 23 July 1941. This states: "VKM is still stationed in Tolochino". Is this report correct? stationed in Tolochino in the combat zone AOK-IV. this report? inflammation of the jaw. He had to leave for home via Minsk, evidently Nebe reported that fact.
Q And Nebe made a report of this?
Q On his own initiative, without your suggestion?
DR. ULMER: Your Honor, another operational situation report has to be presented, so would you like for me to proceed, or would you like to call a recess?
THE PRESIDENT: I think that we should have a recess at this point. The Tribunal will be in recess until L;45.
(A recess was taken until 1345, 24 October 1947).
(The hearing reconvened at 1350 hours, 24 October 1947)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) BY DR. ULMER: situation report about Tolochino. A further operational situation report on 26th of July 1941 reports the VKM to be in Smolensk, is that correct? with some quartermaster since the 21st of July, 1941. The city was still being fought over as the report mentioned.
Q How do you explain this report? who suddenly got sick and had a severe appendicitis and had to leave immediately. He went back by way of Minsk. Therefore, it may be assumed that he gave his report to Nebe orally. of the German text, Exhibit 118, the Staff of Einsatzgruppe B is reported to be in Smolensk, is that correct?
THE PRESIDENT: Which Document Number please?
DR. ULMER: I beg your pardon, your Honors. It is Document NO-2949, Exhibit 118.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, thank you.
Q (By Dr. Ulmer) Is that correct? his group staff on the 5th of august, 1941. been yet submitted of 6th of August 1941 reports from Smolensk as follows:
"In the City of Smolensk in the House of the Soviet important material was safeguarded. The material, after having been examined, will be forwarded." Is that correct?
Q How do you know that? safeguarded in Smolensk by the Advance Kommando Moscow.
Q What did this material consist of? USSR shortly before the outbreak of war.
Q You know that - how did Nebe know about that? was lacking, I saw to it that those secured documents were handed over to the staff in order that the staff may send them on to Berlin. Further material was sent on to the staff also as it was found.
Q It was sent continually to Berlin in this manner?
Q Thank you. According to these operational situation reports the group staff under Nebe's direction and the Advance Kommando under your direction was in Smolensk from the 5th of August 1941, until the time of your departure on the 20th of August, 1941, and they were locally together? to the Einsatzgruppe or to the Einsatzgruppe staff in that time? kommando.
Q On Nebe's approval? that time? sent to Berlin by courier. If Nebe wanted to process this material in his reports this was completeky outside of his duties for it was safeguarded by the Advance Kommando Moscow.
Q Thank you. Why did you yourself not report the safeguarding of this archive material to Berlin? the way the other kommandos had it and had no other means of communication. The safeguarding in Smolensk was caused by the special military situation and by the fact that we had stayed there without having planned to do so.
Q Now, I have the operational situation report, No. 67, of the 29th of august 1941. This is Document No. 3837, Document Book II-B, Page 5 of the German text, Page 6 of the English text, your Honor, Prosecution's Exhibit 58. Do you know this document?
Q Since when? mentioned according to which the Army gives 740 civilians over to the Advance Kommando Moscow in two days. Is this report correct?
A Factually yes, but formally no. The field command, because of lack of interpreters, had handed over some hundred civilian prisoners to the Einsatzgruppe who had been handed over to it by field units. Since there were so many of them, Nebe asked me that the interpreters of the Advance Kommando Moscow be used in order to screen these people.
DR. ULMER: Your Honor, unfortunately this operational situation report which I have just mentioned has not been fully submitted by the Prosecution. I intend to submit several of the paragraphs from the operational situation report which have a direct Bearing on the questions submitted by the Prosecution, and I want to read these paragraphs now, and later I want to submit them in my document books.
It says there, "During the screening the following took place: First, the main group of civilian prisoners were people who, in the course of the advance of the combat troops, for security reasons, had been taken into provisional civilian or prisoners of war camps, for the most part outside of their regular identification papers they hold discharge papers from a Dulag, from a transient camp. Secondly, one group of punitive prisoners who had been sentenced to prison-terms by the Bolshevists for misdemeanors such as drunkness during work and reporting too late for work, had been used as punitive labor for digging ditches after the outbreak of the war and for building improvised fortifications. When combat took place in their territory they had mostly fled and were later arrested as vagabonds by the Army agencies. This group usually lacks identification papers since, when they were brought into the Russian prison their identification papers were taken from them by the prison officials. Third, a group of draftees who had an order to report to the Army and were on the way to join their unit but were no longer able to roach their unit. They were mostly to be used as drivers, as road builders and railroad engineers."
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Ulmer, how long is this quotation which you are going to read?
DR. ULMER: I just read about half of it, your Honor. I could summarize it.
THE PRESIDENT: I think that is what you should do, summarize it, especially in view of the fact that you intend to submit the entire text later. You give us the content in a few brief words indicating that you intend to let us have the entire text later?
DR. ULMER: Yes, your Honor. people who had been ordered to join the Army and who were no longer able to reach their unit. Their identification papers consisted only of their order to report to a certain unit. A Fourth group is also mentioned, persons who had been taken away from their field work and farmers who had been arrested without any reason. They have identification papers issued by Army agencies, Wehrmacht agencies as workers on collective farms.
Q. (By Dr. Ulmer) Witness, my question in reference to this is as follows: Outside of these four main groups were any more persons isolated, selected?
A. The distribution of the prisoners was done as follows: It was done the way the report says, and the exactness of this report shows how much care was taken in this to see to it that these partly half-starved people be distributed justly and that they be subdivided into these four groups. Any further subdivision of prisoners or even execution did not take place since there was on reason to do that. These civilian prisoners, after the subdivision into these four groups had taken place, were led away by soldiers of the Field Command who had been present during COURT II-A CASE IX the subdivision.
More than that I cannot tell you about this subject.
Q. Thank you. In Document Book II-B, Document 2844, Prosecution's Exhibit 61, Page 22 of the German text and Page 22 of the English text, we find an operational situation report, No. 73, Do you know this one?
A. No, I did not see it until the trial here.
Q. Thank you. Can I have it back, please? This operational situation report mentions, on Page 29 of the German text, that group staff and Advance Kommando Moscow from the 22nd of June to the 20th of August had shot dead 144 people. Is this report correct?
A. No, The Advance Kommando Moscow in the time between the 22nd of June, 1941, and the 20th of August, 1941, did not shoot any people. As far as the Advance Kommando Moscow is mentioned in this report, the report is wrong. As far as the group staff is concerned, I cannot give you any details.
Q. How do you explain that this report came to be made out?
A. An explanation is easily to be found. The report was made out after my departure, that Is to say at a time when I had already subordinated the Kommando to Nebe.
Q. How do you come to the conclusion that this report was made out after your departure?
A. That can be seen from the report itself. It is here a collective report of all kommandos of Einsatzgruppe B with the deadline 20th of August. These reports took at least a few days until the Einsatzgruppe received them from the various Kommandos. At that time, that is when Nebe made out this collective report, I had already left.
Q. How do you come to conclude that this report was made out unjustly as far as the participation of the Advance COURT II-A CASE IX Kommando Moscow is mentioned in the execution?