hoefer, who took over the command of Vorkommando Moscow after Six, we gave numerous illustrations of executions by that unit. The defendant Klingelhoefer apparently was not aware of the fact that Vorkommando Moscow was -- as Franz Six would have us believe -supposed to collect documents. In view of the extermination function of all Einsatz units, the pattern of whole-sale murder, and the number of executions shown to have occurred in Vorkommando Moscow, while the defendant Six was in command, we submit that his contention that he was merely there to collect archives is quite incredible. individual responsibility of the defendant in Einsatzgruppen B. Court chooses to recess.
THE PRESIDENT: It is so close to the recess period, that we will now take the noon recess and reconvene at 1:45.
(A recess was taken until 1345.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: In order that there may be no misunderstanding about the preparation of the opening statements, please let me repeat that the first eight speeches must be in the hands of the Director of the Language Division in Room 106 by Friday afternoon of this week; and so that it may not be left to chance, as to who the first eight defendants will be, I will enumerate them: and Blume. defendants will be in the hands of the Translation as indicated. The speeches for the others, namely: Haensch, Nossko, Otto, Strauch, Klingelhoefer, Fondler, von Radetzky, Ruehl, Schubert, and Graf -- will be in the hands of the same Chief of Translation Section on Monday by noon.
MR. GLANCY: May it please the Tribunal - I beg your indulgence for a moment. Yesterday in the prosecution's presentation of the case in chief against the defendant Sandberger the prosecution noted that an excerpt was missing from its book, namely, Document Book I, Document NO-3279. I have learned that it was in all other books except the Prosecution's. I wish to make this a part of the record Sandberger. With the Tribunal's permission I will read it. It is on page 78a of the English, 108a of the German, already included under the heading, "Location Krasnowardeisk", also under the heading of "Communism" it states:
"With the exception of one, all leading communist officials in Esthonia have now been seized and rendered harmless.
The sum total of communists seized runs to about 14,500. Of these about 1,000 were shot and 5,377 put into concentration camps. 3,785 less guilty supporters were released."
DR. HOCHWALD-HORLIK: If the Tribunal please, before I present Document Book No. III-C, which deals with the individual responsibility of the defendants who were active in the Einsatzgruppe C, I want to inform the Tribunal that we tried to get Dr. Surholt, who represents the defendant Rasch -- and the prosecution has been informed that Dr. Surholt left for Berlin without leaving any substitute here. So I do think, as Dr. Surholt was duly informed by the Tribunal that the case will start on Monday, and as Dr. Surholt was present at the arraignment of the defendant Rasch, the prosecution should be permitted to now present its case against the defendant Rasch now.
THE PRESIDENT: The prosecution will proceed - and from this incident let me state when the Tribunal informs all counsel that any session will take place on any particular day, automatically counsel must realize that he will be present on that day or the case will proceed in their absence.
DR. HOCHWALD-HORLIK: Thank you, your Honor.
May it please the Tribunal. I shall now proceed with the presentation of Document Book III-C. The documents contained in this document book refer to the individual responsibility of the defendants who were active in Einsatzgruppe C. In most instances it will be necessary to refer to evidence that has already been presented in earlier stages of the trial. Your Honors will find the document numbers and their descriptions of the documents in the order in which I shall refer to them in the list -- with the reading in the order of presentation.
The list was to be inclosed in the Document Book but, unfortunately, by mistake only the first four and one-half pages are in the book itself. But I have furnished the Secretary General with other copies, and as far as I know there are copies also of the second part in the order I now present before the Tribunal. was under the command of the defendant Rasch consisted, beside the Group Staff of Sonderkommando 4A and 4B, of Einsatzgruppen 5 and 6, as your Honors will see on the chart on the wall. The original code letter for this Einsatzgruppe was, until 11 July 1941, Einsatzgruppe B. From 11 July on, however, the Einsatzgruppe, which consisted of these four units, was re-named Einsatzgruppe C. This change took place for reasons of organization, and I would like to refer in this connection to Document Book II-C, page 46 of the English, page 52 of the German, Prosecution Exhibit 78, Document NO-2934, which shows the change. This document shows also the defendant Rasch as commander of Einsatzgruppen B and C, respectively. Einsatzgruppe C operated, in the time in which the crimes particularized in paragraph 8 of the Indictment were committed, in the Ukraine. The defendant Ohlendorf stated, in paragraph 3 of his affidavit, which is in Document Book I, page 22 of the English, page 23 of the German, Prosecution Exhibit 5, Document NO-2890 - that Einsatzgruppe C had the Ukraine except for the part occupied by the Einsatzgruppe D. At a later time when the Einsatzgruppe D advanced towards the Caucasus, Einsatzgruppe C was in charge of the entire Ukraine insofar as it was not under civil administration.
that Einsatzgruppe C operated at a time which mainly concerns our presentation, in the area of Shitomir, Khiev, Lemberg, Sloviansk, Rowno, Stalino, Nikolajew, and Poltawa. area directly on the chart -- it is just behind the witness box. to refer briefly to Document Book I, page 89 of the English, 121 of the German, Prosecution Exhibit 23, Document NO-3154, which is Operational Situation Report No. 80, dated 11 September 1941. This Operational Situation Report describes the tasks of Einsatzgruppe C as follows, and I quote from page 1 of the English translation, under the heading, "Observation made and measures taken by the Security Police":
"Beside the thorough liquidation of the Party organization and the operations to clear the country of Jews who constitute the most evil disintegration factor, the executive operations by Einsatzgruppe C at present also include, above all, the fight against the partisan nuisance." times and in different positions, commanders or members of Einsatzgruppe C and Sonderkommandos and Einsatzkommandos, were the defendant Rasch, Schulz, Blobel, Steimle, Biberstein, Haensch, Fendler, Radetzky and Graf. Steimle, who was commander of Sonderkommando 7a of the Einsatzgruppe B from September to December 1941, and commander of Sonderkommando 4a of Einsatzgruppe C, from August 1942 to January 1943, has been already discussed during the Presentation of Document Book III-B, and I shall here avoid repetition.
The responsibility of the defendant Rasch. The defendant Rasch -- in paragraph 1 of his affidavit dated 13 August 1947, which is in Document Book III-C on page 1 of the English, page 1 of the German, Document NO-4749, which I offer as Prosecution Exhibit 129 -- admitted having been commander of Einsatzgruppe C from May to October 1941, but he omitted to state that he was, for a short period, at the end of October and the beginning of November 1941, commander of Einsatzgruppe B. This is proved by the Operational Situation Report No. 126, Document Book I, page 28, 31 of the German, Document NO-4134, which is Prosecution Exhibit No. 7. This Operational Situation Report shows Rasch in charge of Einsatzgruppe B on the 29th of October. Another Operational Situation Report, which is in Document Book II-D on page 10 of the English, 8 of the German, Prosecution Exhibit 85, Document NO-3159, lists him in the same position on the 5th of November. However, it is apparent from Operational Report No. 132 -- Document NO-2830, in Document Book II-C on page 21 of the English, 23 of the German, Prosecution Exhibit 72, that after this short service he returned to Einsatzgruppe C as its commander, as this report shows him in this position on the 12th of November 1941. I do not want to take up the Tribunal's time by quoting all the documents in evidence which prove the thousands of murders and atrocities which were carried out by the units of Einsatzgruppe C during the time when Rasch was in command. But I might be permitted to refer to some of the Operational Situation Reports in evidence.
Operational Situation Report No. 128, Document Book II-C, page 1, Document 3157, Prosecution Exhibit 68, shows -- and I am quoting from pages 3 and 4 of the document:
"As to the purely executive matters, approximately 80,000 persons were liquidated until now by the Kommandos of the Einsatzgruppen. Among these are approximately 8,000 persons through investigations convicted of antiGerman or Bolshevistic activities. The remainder was liquidated as a retaliatory measure. Several retaliatory measures were carried out as large-scale actions. The largest of these actions took place immediately after the occupation of Kiev. It was carried out exclusively against Jews with their entire families. The difficulties resulting from such large-scale action - in particular concerning the seizure - were overcome in Kiev by requesting the Jewish population through wall-posters to move. Although only a participation of approximately five to six thousand Jews had been expected at first, more than 30,000 Jews arrived who until the very moment of their execution still believed in their resettlement, thanks to an extremely clever organization.
"Even though approximately 75,000 Jews have been liquidated in this manner, it is already at this time evident that at this time this cannot be a possible solution of the Jewish problem. Although we succeed, in particular in smaller towns and also in villages, in accomplishing a complete liquidation of the Jewish problem, again and again it is, however, observed in larger cities that after such an execution all Jews have indeed disappeared. But when after a certain period of time a Kommando returns again, the number of Jews still found in the city always considerably surpasses the number of executed Jews."
some of the facts which this report reveals. Of 80,000 persons - only 10% of the total, as it is stated here, were convicted through investigations, - which means, in other words, that they were murdered without so much as a semblance of a trial. The remaining 90% - 72,000, were executed as a retaliatory measure. We cannot imagine crimes of such magnitude which would justify the killing of 72,000 people in retaliation, and it is even beyond imagination how the powerless civilian population could have been able to permit such crimes.
Operational Situation Report No. 106, which is in Document Book I, page 122 of the English, page 149 of the German, Document 3140, Prosecution Exhibit 30. You will find, in the middle of the page, a note which reveals that approximately 35,000 Jewish inhabitants of Kiev were actually exterminated on the 29th and 30th of September 1941 by Sonderkommando 4a under the command of the defendant Blobel, at the time when Rasch admittedly was commander of Einsatzgruppe C, to which Sonderkommando 4a was subordinate.
Operational Situation Report No. 132, which is in Document Book II-C, on Page 23 of the German -- and I want to refer to pages 23, 24 and 25 in the English -- reads, in connection with Einsatzgruppe C, as follows:
"The number of executions carried out by Sonderkommando 4a meanwhile increased to 55,432. Among those executed by Sonderkommando 4a in the second part of the month of October 1941 until the date of this report, in addition to a comparatively small number of political functionaries, active communists and people guilty of sabotage, etc.
, the larger part were again Jews, and a considerable part of these were again Jewish prisoners of war who had been handed over by the Wehrmacht. At Borispol, at the request of the Commander of the Borispol Prisoner of War Camp, a platoon of Sonderkommando 4a shot 752 Jewish prisoners of war on 14 October 1941 and 354 Jewish prisoners of war on 10 October 1941, amongst them some commissioners and 78 wounded Jews, handed over by the camp physician." the first paragraph of this page, your Honors: "Another platoon of Sonderkommando 4a was active at Lubny and, without any interference, executed 1365 Jews, Communists and partisans, among them 53 prisoners of war and a few Jewish riflewomen." I do expect these were Jewish women carrying weapons. It is obvious that the 55,432 executions were not carried out in a few days, but that is the number of total murders committed by Sonderkommando 4a.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Hochwald, it will be assumed by the Tribunal that once you introduce an exhibit, even though you only read a small portion of it the entire exhibit is in evidence.
DR. HORLICK-HOCHWALD: Your Honor, I was only referring now to documents which are in evidence, and we always put the complete report in.
THE PRESIDENT: I only want to make this statement so that defense counsel may feel free to refer to the other parts of the exhibit. Naturally, you are only reading a fragment of the exhibit, but the entire exhibit is evidence and will be regarded as being in evidence.
DR. HORLICK-HOCHWALD: That is correct; and we have always submitted a photostatic copy of the complete report.
(continuing) These executions were carried out with Rasch as commander of Einsatzgruppe C by Sonderkommando 4a, which was a Sub-unit of Einsatzgruppe C. your Honors -- page 25 of Document Book II-C, the same document from which I quoted, 28 of the German, paragraph 1 of this page:
"Sonderkommando 4b is stationed at Poltawa, according to a report dated 16 October 1941. Slaviasnk is to be the next location. The work of Sonderkommando 4b, influenced partly by weather and road conditions, was mainly limited to the town area of Poltawa. In the week from 4 October 1941 to 10 October 1941, a total number of 186 persons was executed, among them 21 political functionaries, 4 people guilty of sabotage and looting and 161 Jews. In addition, the task of the Sonderkommando included searches and pursuits of former leading Communist Party functionaries and members of the executory committee of the Poltawa district." 3, page. 19 of the original, your Honors, page 29 of the German, just under the heading:
"The number of people executed by Einsatzkommando 5 amounted to 15,110 on 20 October 1941. From this number, 20 political functionaries, 21 people guilty of sabotage and looting and 1,847 Jews were shot between 13 October 1941 and 19 October 1941. On 18 October 1941, 300 insane Jews of the Kiev lunatic asylum were liquidated, which represented a particularly heavy mental burden for the members of Einsatzkommando 5, who were in charge of this operation."
the same page, your Honors:
"137 trucks full of clothes, made available in connection with the campaign against Jews at Shitomir and Kiev, were put at the disposal of the National Socialist People's Welfare Organization - NSV - for further disposal. The greater part of these articles, after necessary disinfection, were distributed among German nationals. From this stock a field-hospital of the Waffen-SS, among others, was also able to meet its requirements of woolen blankets etc." Report No. Ill, Document Book 2a, page 44 of the English, page 40 of the German, Document No-3155, Prosecution Exhibit 38 -- it is on page 2 of the translation, the third paragraph from the bottom of the page:
"In the period between 7 September and 5 October, 207 political officials, 112 saboteurs and looters as well as 8,800 Jews were liquidated by Einsatzkommando 5.
"Special Kommando 4b, in the period between 13 and 26 September, executed 103 political officials, 9 saboteurs and looters and 125 Jews.
"Einsatzkommando 6, in the period between 14 and 27 September, executed 13 political officials, 32 looters and saboteurs as well as 26 Jews." under the defendant Rasch took part in the killings of thousands of people. As to Rasch's responsibility for killings carried out by Einsatzgruppe B, where he was in command at least from 29 October to 5 November 1941, it is sufficient to compare Operational Situation Report No. 125, which is in Document Book II-B, page 42 of the English, page 39 of the German, Document 3403, Prosecution Exhibit 63, with another Operational Situation Report in evidence -- Operational Situation Report No. 133, in the same Document Book II-B, on page 15 of the English.
The document starts on page 10 of the German, Document NO-2825, Prosecution Exhibit 59. The first report, No. 125, which is on page 42 of the English, 39 of the German, which is dated 26 October 1941, lists on page 2 of the translation the execution total of Einsatzgruppe B, as 37,180 persons.
The report No. 133 which is on page 15, 13 of the German, which is dated on the 14 November 1941--it is on page 15 of the document book, 45,407 executed by the same unit. In this number of persons killed by Sonderkommando 4-B, Einsatzkommando 9 and Vorkommando Moscow which belonged to Einsatzgruppe B were not in 2-B. Nevertheless, the increase shown in this period between 26 October and 14 November is 8,273. As Rasch was in charge of Einsatzgruppe B at least from 29 October-5 November, he is in charge and responsible for this. by affidavits of some of his co-defendants. I refer to Document Book III-A, page 10 of the English, page 17 of the German, your Honors. Document NO-3872, prosecution Exhibit 110. This is an affidavit of the defendant Sandberger dated on the 19th of November, 1945. This document lists Rasch under paragraph 5-B as responsible for the persecution of Jews in the Ukraine. No. I on page 97 of the English, 134 of the German, Document NO-3644, prosecution Exhibit 26 reveals that Rasch informed Schulz in Lemberg that Jewish officials and other inhabitants of this town were alledgedly guilty of murder. 2,500 to 3,000 persons were arrested and most of them were killed. It was Rasch who informed Schulz that according to an order of the Fuehrer not only guilty but also strongly suspected persons were to be shot as a so-called reprisal. Einsatzkommando 6, he was personally present at the executions. Schulz was ordered to take part in the execution by Einsatzkommando 5 and it was Rasch who handed down the order to Schulz that all Jews were to be shot. Exceptions were to be made only in cases where the Jews were necessary for forced labor. Rasch also ordered that Jewish women and children were eventually to be shot, together with the male Jewish population so that no avengers could survive.
Document Book III-C on page 60 of the English, page 98 of the German, Document NO-3341 which I offer as prosecution Exhibit No. 130. In this document, Schulz in paragraph 6, the second to the last paragraph on page 2 of the document, your Honors, it states that Rasch distinguished himself by extraordinary ruthlessness. He also ordered that the commanders of the individual units of Einsatzgruppe C should personally take part in the killings. on page 129 of the English and 159 of the German, prosecution Exhibit 31, document NO-3824 - and I am referring to paragraph 3, 6 and 7, 8 and 9 of the document--it states that when Blobel joined Einsatzgruppe C as chief of Sonderkommando 4-A in June 1941, Rasch was in charge of Einsatzgruppe C. That is in paragraph 5. Rasch was personally present during the execution of 700 to a thousand persons near Korosta which took place in August or September, 1941. book, your Honors, Blobel's unit which was one of the units of Einsatzgruppe C and was directly under the command of the defendant Rasch, also killed women and children. In September or October, 1941, Blobel received from Einsatzgruppe C a gas wagon and one execution was carried out by using this gas wagon. At the end of September 1941, the group staff of Einsatzgruppe C participated in the mass execution of Jews in Kiev. When Blobel was ill, Rasch or Radetski replaced him and Blobel knows that during that time executions were carried out. on the 1st of September, 1939, a member of an organization declared to be criminal by the International Military Tribunal, namely the SS, the Gestapo, and the SD. I refer to document book III-C, page 3 of the English, and the German, and offer Rasch's SS personnel file, Document NO-3253 as prosecution Exhibit 131. This document proves that Rasch was a member of the SS and the SD from 1936 on.
in the American army, and in the SS he was a leader of the regional area of Fulda Werra from the 1st February 1939 on. And rose to the rank of inspector of the Sipo and SD Security Police and Security Service which is a high ranking position in the Gestapo too. In the Gestapo he was attached as Brigadier General of the police to the Gestapo Koenigsberg from the 1st of December 1940 on.
Page 8 of the document book, your Honor. He received a high SS decoration--the death head and the sword of honor. Membership in Criminal organization is also proved by his own affidavit to which I have already referred. That is in Document Book III- C, page 1, prosecution Exhibit 1 to 9, document NO-4749. Sonderkommando 4-A, the case of the defendant Blobel. I refer to Document Book I, page 130 of the English, 159 of the German. This document is NO-3824, prosecution Exhibit 31, an affidavit of the defendant Blobel dated 6 June, 1947. In this affidavit, the defendant Blobel states that he was commander of Sonderkommando 4-A from June 1941 to January 1942. It was Blobel and Sonderkommando 4-A who exterminated approximately 35,000 Jews in Kiev on the 29th and 30th of September 1941.
Operational situation report No. 106, which is in Document Book No. I, page 118 of the English, 149 of the German, Document NO-3140, prosecution Exhibit 30, shows that Blobel arrived at Kiev -- and this is on page 3 of the document, paragraph 2 under the heading of I--Kiev.
Blobel arrived at Kiev already in the 21st of September. I would like to correct no error which appears in the English translation. In the document, the name of Blobel is not written out but your Honors will find on top of the document in a later sheet referring to this particular sentence and there it is shown that the name of Blobel appears in the original document. 21st of September.
II-C on page 21 of the English, page 23 of the German, Document NO-2830, prosecution Exhibit 72, about the location Sonderkommando 4-A under Blobel on the 4th of November, 1941, Rasch discloses that he personally was in command of the Kiev action. Book I, page 118 of the English, 149 of the German. This is Document NO-3140, prosecution Exhibit 30. I quote from page 124 of the document book, page 155 of the German.
Partly because of the better economic situation of the Jews under the Bolschevist regime and their activities as informers and agents of the NKWD, partly because of the explosions and the resulting fires, the public feeling against the Jews was very strong. As an added factor it was proven that the Jews participated in the arson. The population expected adequate retaliatory measures by the German authorities. Consequently all Jews of Kiew were requested, in agreement with the city commander, to appear on Monday, 29 September until 8 o'clock at a designated place. These announcements were posted by members of the Ukrainian militia in the entire city. Simultaneously it was announced orally that all Jews were to be moved. In collaboration with the Gruppen staff and 2 Kommandos of the police regiment South the Sonderkommando 4a executed on 29 and 30 September 33771 Jews. Money, valuables, underwears and clothing were secured and placed partly at the disposal of the (Nazi Party Public Welfare Organization) NSV for use of the racial Germans, partly given to the city administration authorities for use of the needy population. The transaction was carried out without friction. No incidents occurred. The "Resettlement measure" against the Jews was throughout approved by the population. The fact that in reality the Jews were liquidated, was hardly known until now, according to up - to - date experiences it would however hardly been objected to. The measures were also approved by the Wehrmacht. The Jews who were not yet apprehended as well as those who gradually returned from their flight again to the city were in each case treated accordingly. Simultaneously a number of NKWD officials, political commissars and partisan leaders were arrested and liquidated." I skip the next three paragraphs and quote from the last paragraph on page 10, page 156 of the German under the heading-it is ten of the document, your Honors.
After the confinement of the Jews to a restricted area which had been carried out by the Feldkommandantur following a suggestion of the Sonderkommando 4a, a considerable calm was noticed, e.g. at the markets and so forth. Simultaneously a number of until new persistent rumors died down and it seemed as if also a communist propaganda had lost much ground through the confinement of the Jews. It appeared however already after a few days that a mere spatial confinement of the Jews without construction of a Ghetto was not sufficient. and that the old troubles started again. Complaints were received in many offices about the insolent attitude of Jews on their working places. It was established that the Jewish district was the origin of an active propaganda among Ukrainians saying that the red army would soon reconquer the territories taken from it. The local militia was shot at from ambush at night and also at day. It was further found out that Jews exchanged their belongings for money and left the town in order to settle in the Western Ukraine - that is, in territories already under a civil administration. All these facts were observed, the Jews in question however could only be arrested in very few cases, as they had sufficient means to escape apprehension. Therefore a conference on this matter took place on 18 September 1941 with the Feldkommandantur, in which it was decided to liquidate the Jews of Shitomir completely and radically, as all warnings and special measures had been up - to - date unsuccessful: On 19 September 1941 the Jewish district was evacuated starting at 4 o' clock in the morning, after having been surrounded and closed the evening before by 60 men of the Ucranian militia. The transportation was carried out by 12 trucks which had been place at the disposal partly by the Feldkommandantur, resp. the city administration of Shitomir. After the transport had been carried out and the necessary preparations had been done with the help of 150 prisoners a total of 5145 Jews were registered and executed.
50.000 - 60.000 Pds of underwear, clothing, shoewear, cooking ustensils and so forth could he transferred for use to the deputy of the NSV in Shitomir, BOSS. Confiscated valuables and money were transferred to the Sonderkommando 4a." of the German: Exhibit 73, NO-3151, which is operational situation report No. 86 dated 17 September 1941, this report reveals that already before the murder of the Jews in Shitomir up to the 17th of Sept. in 1941, Sonderkommando 4-A had exterminated 6,584 persons described in the report as Bolshevists, Jews and asocial elements. on page 23, the document starts on 23 in the German, Document NO-2836, prosecution Exhibit 72, second paragraph from the bottom from page 23, proves that on the 12th of November, 1941, of the activity of approximately four-and-a-half to five months, and I quote:
"A number of executions carried out by Sonderkommando 4-A meanwhile increased to 55,432." 4-A. I would like to refer further to page 5 of the same document which I have already quoted when discussing the responsibility of the defendant Rasch. This entry proves that a platoon of Sonderkommando 4-A executed 1,365 Jews, Communists and saboteurs. "In Kiev, Sonderkommando 4-A regularly carried out interrogations and arrests which in most cases led to executions. Here almost without exception we were concerned with active communists who had worked for the communist party. It is worth mentioning that in several cases by way of incriminating statements made by witnesses, communists could be arrested who had just been released from prisoner-of-war camps because they had stated that they had never taken any active part in politics before.
One of them had been a functionary of the communist party since 1925. Another one had been a member of the party for 15 years and had served as a politruk in the Soviet army. English, 61 of the German, Document 3405, prosecution Exhibit 42. This document reveals the details of the activities of Einsatzkommando 4-A in a time when Blobel was in command. I quote from page *9 of the English translation, second paragraph from the "bottom of the page. It is page 65 of the document book, 69 in the German, under the heading of: Line 27 onwards: the Jewish population had been requested by means of posters to report on the previous day. Altogether 1,538 Jews were shot. Their clothing was handed over to the mayor if Poltawa, who gave special priority to ethnic Germans when distributing it.
This documentary evidence is corroborated by Blobel's own affidavit and by affidavits of his co-defendant Steinle and Radetzki. I refer to Document Book I, page 130 of the English, 159 of the German. The quote is on 161 of the German, Document NO-3824, prosecution Exhibit 31. This is an affidavit of the defendant Blobel dated 6 June 1947. He admits that Sonderkommando 4-A under his command carried out several executions of communists, saboteurs, Jews and other undesirable elements. executed but presumes that approximately 10 to 15 thousand were executed under the collaboration of Sonderkommando 4-A. He himself does not claim that this number is even approximately correct and the evidence which I have just referred to and other documents before the Tribunal manifestly prove that the number of the victims of Sonderkommando 4-A during the time when Blobel was in command was approximately 60,000.