possibility by making the assignment of my commandos slightly different. Under consideration of the situation in the territory of the Ninth Army to evade carrying out this order, or at least, in the case of Jews, to delay carrying out the order by emphasizing the importance of partisan combating which actually was the most important thing at the moment, and owing to the fact that I tried to keep the commandoswith the fighting troops all the time as my predecessor before me had done. The small forces of the Commando had to be utilized to such an extent that for any other activity there was no time left. This could be justified any time.
QHow did your activity as Commandofuehrer develop? for two or three interruptions I remained until the 8th or 10th of October. That is about four weeks in all.
Q What interruptions were there?
A I was at Welikie-Lucki once or twice. Each time for two days. At the end of September or the beginning of October I visited the G-2 of the Army which had been transferred from Welish in the meantime in a small village near Tochowchina. Welish?
A The Kommandos in Welish consisted of about 30 to 40 people. The executive tasks I left to Obersturmfuehrer Voltes. Already previously he had been troop leader of an independent platoon.
Q What do you mean by executive activity? intelligence, arrests, interrogations, and if necessary, executions. in being in charge of this Sparte?
to be carried out? to make such decisions. Leader exclusively to make all the decisions as the only competent person, out the division of the Kommandos, into sub-Kommandos automatically brought it about that the sub-Kommando Leaders decided on their own authority.
Q Did such sub-Kommando Leaders act as they wanted to?
A No. The sub-Kommando Leaders in my case were informed better about their tasks than I was. During sever al personal discussions, I told than in connection with the communist and partisan question which concerned us, and I told then my opinion and ordered them always to examine everything carefully and to be conscientious in their decisions. I actually made tests and examined their decisions when I visited the sub-Kommandos; but I must emphasize again that I had neither been trained militarily; nor did I have police experience, and therefore experts had to deal with these subjects in the subdepartments. For example, as a replacement for Voltes, an elderly criminal commissioner was appointed.
Q Of what did Voltes' activity in the Welish area consist? Russian ausiliary police ; also in connection with the auxiliary police, a number of agents had been appointed. The entire activity was aimed against the activity of partisans already described, against parachutists, and agents. particularly endangered? which. are very suitable for partisans. According to reports by Russians in these territories, terrorists and partisans had stayed
Q In connection with partisan fighting, did you give any orders? principle of justice and examination of each case and I pointed this out to Foltis and the other sub-kommando leaders.
Q Were you always informed about the various operations? the G-2 or by the G-2 CIC: After returning Foltis always gave me oral reports.
Q Was a written report sent to Einsatzgruppe B? handed on the The Group. Communist resistance, as well. In what manner was this carried out? aries that is, at least in the territory of the 9th army, the carrier of the partisan combatting. The Communist functionaries and its active supporters had withdrawn into the woods and the smaller villages after the Red Army had withdrawn in order to carry on Guerilla Warfare from there. This was done in such a manner that in some villages bases here established and attack units stationed themselves in the woods. The securing of the territory against Communist resistance was identical with the partisan combatting. recognize them as Communist functionaries? territory, the Kommando found the papers and the records of the Communist Party and of the NKWD.
Q Did these documents contain specific material? of some leading personalities in case of invasion of the enemy and of the resistanee to be formed.
The corpses were thrown under the trucks by the partisans and the trucks were then get afire. Such incidents occurred continuously in the territory around Welish.
Q Why was Voltes particularly active in the combating of partisans? important security task in the Welish territory. For that reason, it was natural that the Army had given the Kommando orders to combat the partisans. It was necessary, in order to fight these partisans, to have a reconnaissance service, and this service occupied the time of Voltes and his people completely.
Q When happened to the results of the reconnaissance? the nearest Army unit.
Q Was what the entire activity of your Kommando?
A No. On the basis of the reports given to the Army and their units the Army ordered actions wherein Voltes and the Kommando took part by way of fighting and interrogations.
Q Which Army units carried out these assignments?
A That depended on the extent of the assignment. There were assignments in which two divisions took part. Also the army had a special unit which dealt with partisans, the so-called Eingreifgruppe, whose only task was to fight partisans. After arranging with the Army, Voltes with his own forces helped them personally and together with the Russian police he carried out small actions.
Q Owing to such actions, were there any shootings carried out? be shot? group could be established. Also in a few cases people suspected of partisan activity were shot. Among then were people of whom it could at least be proved that they voluntarily had been active by assisting the partisans, either by giving reports to them or by assisting them in some other way.
Q. Who established this during the investigations?
A. In common assignments together with the army, members of the secret field police and officials of Sonderkommando 7A conducted investigations and made written records about this. Based on these records, an army officer together with Foltes after listening to the accused person, passes the sentence.
Q. Who carried out the execution by shooting?
A. I cannot answer this question concerning all the actions because I am not sure of this.
Q. Howwas the procedure handled when Foltes acted independently?
A. Foltes only carried out a few assignments on his own, but the investigation was handled in the same manner. He passed the sentence after discussing it with the officials who had conducted the interrogation and listened to the defendant once more. During the examination the chief of the Russian Security Service was always consulted. The shooting was done under Foltes' supervision. The operations were not carried out in the city of Welish but in the territory around Welish.
Q. Did you yourself take part in such operations against partisans?
A. No.
Q. Why did you not do this?
A. Foltes was a very independent and energetic person. He was a soldier throughout, and formerly he had served in the army as an officer. I myself neither had a military rank nor any military experience. The rank in the SD only meant a rank as intelligence officer and not a military qualification.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Did you know Herr Foltes when you took over the commando?
A. No, but my predecessor. Dr. Blume, in a letter had mentioned him and the fuehrers of the commandos and described them to me in the letter.
Q. And was he recommended to you as a very good soldier?
A. At least, he was recommended as a very clever SS official Who had high qualifications and higher qualifications than some of the other leaders. Another judgment about Foltes I could form after staying there a short time because the army had given him a decoration for his work against the partisans. This had not been applied for by me or my predecessor, but the army did this on its own initiative because of their cooperation.
Q. Here you thoroughly satisfied that he was reliable?
A. As a soldier, as far as I can judge this at all, and according to statements by the army authorities, he was a man who was suitable for this partisan combatting.
Q. Did you have a report on him when you took over the command, and was it because of this report that you were entirely satisfied that he was a man who could be depended upon?
A. I have already said that Dr. Blume was my predecessor, and he mentioned in a letter that he was reliable; and according to the evaluation by the army prior to my time - also because he was given a decoration, I presumed that as a soldier in this partisan combatting he had distinguished himself.
Q. Did you talk with any others of the command about Foltes?
A. One of the leaders of the commando who was a liaison officer of the army and also knew Foltes, sometimes discussed Foltes with me. A further judgment of Foltes consisted of the fact that he was a member of the so-called executive service. He therefore was a man who was qualified according to his activities and his attitude.
Q. You are thoroughly satisfied from all the reports you received that he was entirely reliable and dependable?
A. At least, I could expect that he would carry out his orders according to the instructions of the army.
Q. And Dr. Blame had recommended him highly to you?
A. He had given a description of him which justified that among all. the leaders of the commando he should be given this job, and he was the most suitable man among the leaders.
Q. And you talked with others about Foltes?
A. I cannot remember at the moment having discussed it with anybody else.
Q. You said just a few moments ago that you carried on a conversation about Foltes.
A. Yes. Apart from the discussion mentioned, I did not talk to anyone.
Q. Well, didn't you just say a few moments ago that you discussed with someone else Foltes' reliability and his dependability and his virtues?
A. Yes, Your Honor, and my reply was that apart from this discussion, with the liaison officer whom I mentioned, this liaison officer for the army, I did not discuss Foltes with anybody else but him.
THE PRESIDENT: Just as a matter of information, we will ask the gentlemen of the. prosecution and of the defense counsel whether Foltes is the man that Blume accused as having shot 27 jews on the streets.
DR. FERENCZ: Yes, Your Honor, that is the way the prosecution understands it. It is the same man to whom Blume referred. He said the execution of the 27 was done by Foltes. BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Did you consider that a very highly commendable action on the part of Foltes of shooting these Jews on the street without any trial, without any hearing, just shooting them down because they had failed to work?
A. But this action which was mentioned during the examination of the defendant, Blume, I heard here for the first time.
Q. And Blume recommended him to you without any reservation?
A. He described the men whom he gave the commando temporarily, the man we had executive power in the commando.
Q. And he recommended him as to his attitude?
A. I cannot define this so exactly. He gave me a description of all the leaders of the commandos and the positions which they had under him.
Q. You used the word "attitude" just a moment ago in commenting on Foltes?
A. The letter expressed that Foltes was the suitable man to be in charge of the commando temporarily and to carry out the executive activity in the commando.
Q. Yes, Everyone was pleased with Foltes because he carried out the Fuehrer order?
A. I cannot say it like this because he did not refer to the fuehrer decree at that instance.
Q. That is what you were out there for, executing the fuehrer decree, isn't it?
A. The fuehrer decree also contained several security tasks, and in this special, field where Foltes was in charge temporarily, namely; in the Wacish area tasks of that kind were as important as the combatting of partisans, and Foltes, as former army officer among all the SS leaders there, he had the best practical military experience.
Q. And aid you ever have any occasion to be disappointed with him when he was working for you?
A.During the time when he was with me, that lasted for about 4 or 5 weeks, he exclusively dealt with the combatting of partisans, and as the documents can prove in detail, the army ordered him to these actions.
Q. Would you please answer my question, during the time that he was with you, were you ever disappointed with him?
Q Would you please answer that question. During the time he was with you were you ever disappointed with him? out. ing shot down 27 Jews or 21 Jews on the street because they had not turned up for work? stated, that the Kommando carried out shootings of Jews.
Q And that was entirely satisfactory to you? ing my time, he did not carry out any shootings of Jews, but combatted partisans. killed 21 Jews on the street without any trial or investigation, merely because of not having turned up for work, would you still have been satisfied to put him in charge of a sub-kommando? official task in any different manner.
Q Then you would have been satisfied with him? feeling of satisfaction with this. out any investigation or hearing of any kind, would you still have been entirely satisfied to let him be one of your sub-kommandos? That is the question. open protest against this order.
remain?
A May I have that repeated please? would have allowed him to remain as a sub-kommander, even though you had known of this episode? Witebsk would have meant the same as an open objection against the order given.
Q Will you please answer the question. If you had known of this episode, would you still have retained him as a sub-kommander, because of the circumstances in which you found yourself? would have been no way of having him dismissed.
Q Yes, would you have said to him: "Now I learned that you killed 21 or 27 Jews on the street and I don't approve of that kind of activity. From now on, do not execute anyone unless there is first a trial." Would you have told him that? I attached importance to it that the investigations....
Q Now, just a moment, please, Please listen to the question. Here you are out in the field and Foltis is under your command. It has come to your attention that he killed -- Oh, first let me ask you this question: Would you have executed 21 Jews on the street just because they were Jews and had not worked?
Q Please answer that question: Would you have shot them just because they were Jews who did not work, having in mind this Fuehrer Decree? Would you have shot them down?
Q If you would not have found a way out, you would have shot them? security, rather than shoot 27 Jews, theoretically speaking, I would have carried out the order.
had this Feuhrer Decree that all Jews were to be executed and you found these Jews before you, you would have executed the decree and you would have shot,the Jews, even though they had had no trial? kommando.
Q Well, all right, how would you have circumvented the order? Here are these 27 Jews in front of you. They are Jews and the order says you must kill all Jews. How would you have circumvented that order?
A Because I also had other tasks and could give them priority. I could leave a place where there were Jews because the Army advanced and, therefore these Jews?
Q All right. Now, did you tell Foltis, if you had known of this episode, would you have said, to Foltis, "Now, listen, Foltis, when you can avoid killing Jews, please do so, because I don't like that idea of killing Jews without a hearing," Would you have told him that?
Q You said Foltis was far away from you. You gave him independent control. He didn't come and ask you each time he was going to shoot a Jew or anybody. He had to know beforehand what your attitude was and before you sent him out in the field, did you say to him, "Now, I don't agree with this Fuehrer order in all its extent, and don't you shoot anybody unless you first have a trial." Did you tell him that?
Q Foltis was with you all of the time? for the few days when I visited the Sub-Kommando Welikie-Lucki, and I conscientiously recommended anti-partisan combatting to him because Foltis on his part preferred to be active as a soldier against partisans and not to shoot Jews.
Q Well, you said here in your testimony just a few minutes ago: "you left it ot Foltis to determine what shootings were to take plac." You left it up to him, didn't you? accordingly I was forced to leave the decision up to him.
Q You left it up to him whom he was to shoot? ing.
Q You left it up to him to determine whom to shoot. He was to decide whether they were partisans or not, is that right? determine this in such a form as I have described during my direct examination . He was to determine whether to shoot or not?
A In the cases, and at least 80% of the cases it was the question of joint operations with the army in which officials, and the Field Police, not Foltis, carried out an investigation.
Q Well, take those cases where the Army wasn't there. You said in 80% of the cases. In 20% of the cases did he decide whom to shoot?
A In the rest of the case's he decided, but, after that, he reported to me orally and also in writing, so that I was informed.
Q After he did the shooting, he advised you what he had done? carried out.
Q Please answer the question. After he had conducted the operation, he reported to you what he had done?
Q Yes, so he did have some independence of judgement? way? Did you tell him "Now shoot partisans; shoot spies; shoot saboteurs, but don't shoot Jews, just because they are Jews, or just because they won't work." Did you tell him that? examine conscientiously and conduct examinations.
Q And then you let him decide what to do? been assigned.
Q. You at no time told him not to shoot Jews, just because they were Jews? leaders, that is what I tried to reply in the direct examination, I did not revoke this order.
Q The Fuehrer Order said to shoot all Jews, didn't it?
Q All right, now did you tell Foltis not to obey that order?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, proceed. BY DR. MAYER: at any time against your combatting all partisans? partisan combatting was up to the military authorities, who ordered the operations. Secondly, there was not other possibility of fighting the partisans in their fighting which was contrary to international laws. this measure?
Q In connection with partisan fighting, did you give any orders? principle of justice and examination of each case and I pointed this out to Foltis and the other sub-kommando leaders.
Q Were you always informed about the various operations? the G-2 or by the G-2 CIC: After returning Foltis always gave me oral reports.
Q Was a written report sent to Einsatzgruppe B? handed on the The Group. Communist resistance, as well. In what manner was this carried out? aries that is, at least in the territory of the 9th army, the carrier of the partisan combatting. The Communist functionaries and its active supporters had withdrawn into the woods and the smaller villages after the Red Army had withdrawn in order to carry on Guerilla Warfare from there. This was done in such a manner that in some villages bases here established and attack units stationed themselves in the woods. The securing of the territory against Communist resistance was identical with the partisan combatting. recognize them as Communist functionaries? territory, the Kommando found the papers and the records of the Communist Party and of the NKWD.
Q Did these documents contain specific material? of some leading personalities in case of invasion of the enemy and of the resistance to be formed.
Q What measures were taken as a result of these documents? prerequisites for a systematic search for the active Communist leaders and of the NKWD. for shooting if a person before the German invasion had been a member of the Communist Party or had been a Communist functionary? shot. The functionaries owing to orders of the Russians which had become known had bean requested and bound to carry on active resistance.
THE PRESIDENT: We may have our recess now, if you don't mind. Recess for fifteen minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Mayer, before you begin your direct examination the Tribunal will make the following announcement. When the Tribunal recesses on Friday afternoon, at the usual hour, it will not reconvene until the following Wednesday morning. Tuesday, November 11th, is an official holiday, a national holiday and Monday will also be a holiday. So that therefore anyone who wishes to make any arangements for that rather long week-end is now advised that he may make those arrangements.
DR. MAYER: I shall continue with my direct examination. of documents were the basis of the finding cut who the active Communists were among the partisans, and I have asked you the question ... Do you mean to say that, that in your Command it was no reason to shoot anybody if that person was a member of the Communist party before the invasion by the Germans? concerned, for that no one was shot. Functionaries of the Communist party, through the orders that had been announced by Stalin and the Russian war leadership, had been obligated for active resistance behind the fronts. Of these functionaries were found to have offered such resistance shootings were carried out. This is not a persecution for political reasons, but The punishment for crimes against the occupation power, and its directives.
Q What directives do you mean by this? public everywhere, it was announced both in the Russian and the German language, that the Communist party was dissolved, and every type of activity on its part, as well as participation, and assistance in partisan warfare would be punishable by death.
and in the investigations and judgments? given about anti-partisan warfare, that I gave a Foltis free hand in this field, but, during personal discussions I told him my point of viewnamely, that he should treat all cases justly. In the same manner I had a long conference with the director of the Russian service for the maintenance of order in order to tell him the same things. After Foltes had left, about the 15th of October 1941, when his successor dealt with few cases which were still under way I always made tests in the cases which were still being dealt with by his successor, to see whether they were being treated justly.
Q Were you convinced of the legality of the measures adopted?
A Yes. It corresponded with the directives of the army, and it was a question of punishbale resistance against the German occupying power. territory of your Commando. What happened as far as this question is concerned, in the area of Welish? any action against Jews. Other leaders, too, of my Commando, no such operations. reference to the Jews was neither carried out by you, nor by any of your subordinate offices?
Q For what reasons did this not happen? partisans and the breaking up of Communist resistance, Through this activity this Commando was so busy, and had been given orders concerning partisan warfare by the Army directly, the Jewish, question was pushed into the background.
The order for the execution of Jews, only because they Were Jews, was considered by me as humanity impossible. Of course, this opinion was not valid for those cases in which individual Jews or groups of Jews had committed crimes. In such a case I would, of course, have approved measures against Jews because like every inhabitant of occupied territory, they were under German jurisdiction and subject to German laws. order in the area of Welish? to my office, and as it has been carried out in some cases that I did not revoke this order - but I did not renew it, for my part, nor did I issue it again.
Q Could you have revoked the order? punishment, namely an obvious punishment for refusing to obey the order of the chief of state. give the order or renew it? that I did not insist on the execution of this order. execution of the order? no Jews, or very few Jews. This was possible on the basis of Army instruction which I had. This was valid for the area of Moscow, with the exception of the city of Moscow itself. Because in this area up to the revolution of 1917 the settlement of Jews had been prohibited by the Czarist government.
Q Did you see any other ways of evading the order?
I could keep the Commando busy with fighting partisans, so that if my superior would ask me about it I could point out to this activity of my Commando. And the final possibility was that I might move the Commando so near the fronts that the execution of the order would be impossible. For this reason I did so in the following period. in Wellikie Lucki? spent about two days with it.
Q What was the security position in this area? of the sub-commando, the city was relatively quiet. As far as I remember, there were hardly any Jews, or no Jews at all. On the other hand, in the vicinity of Welikie Lucki a partisan movement had been formed and the commando had accomplished several missions there.
15 November 1947_A_MSD_22_1_Hoxsie (Lea)
Q During your stay in Weliki_Luki did you give any orders for executions or did you confirm the orders already given, or did you demand that these orders be executed expressly?
A No. as far as this kommando is concerned. I asked that every individual case he thoroughly investigated and tried justly.
Q Were you later in Weliki_Luki again? that at the end of the month of September I was once more there for two days. kommando in Weliki_Luki carried out an anti-Jewish operation? and partisans? sent to me.
Q What were the following garrisons of your kommando? leadership of Foltis during the battle of Vyazma, moved toward Vyazama with a tank unit. with a mission to secure the documents in Vyazama. The kommando remained there for several days, about until the 15th of October Subkommanaos remained in Welish and Welikie_Luki at that time.
Q Where did you yourself stay in the following period of time? to discuss the advance of my kommando with the G_2, corresponding to the military Voperations as they had been laid down. As future garrisons Rshev and Kalinen were intended. I received the permission from the G_2 and his consent to move into these places with the combat troops. Order were issued by the Army to that effect. the front area?