QYes, if you were placed in the same situation as Foltis and you had this Feuhrer Decree that all Jews were to be executed and you found these Jews before you, you would have executed the decree and you would have shot,the Jews, even though they had had no trial?
AI would have tried to circumvent this order, as I had done in my kommando.
QWell, all right, how would you have circumvented the order? Here are these 27 Jews in front of you. They are Jews and the order says you must kill all Jews. How would you have circumvented that order?
ABecause I also had other tasks and could give them priority. I could leave a place where there were Jews because the Army advanced and, therefore
QAll right, all right, Then you would have tried not to kill these Jews?
AYes.
QAll right. Now, did you tell Foltis, if you had known of this episode, would you have said, to Foltis, "Now, listen, Foltis, when you can avoid killing Jews, please do so, because I don't like that idea of killing Jews without a hearing," Would you have told him that?
AAt least I showed Foltes through my attitude that I thought along -- those lines.-
QYou said Foltis was far away from you. You gave him independent control. He didn't come and ask you each time he was going to shoot a Jew or anybody. He had to know beforehand what your attitude was and before you sent him out in the field, did you say to him, "Now, I don't agree with this Fuehrer order in all its extent, and don't you shoot anybody unless you first have a trial." Did you tell him that?
AI was in the same place with Foltis most of the time.
QFoltis was with you all of the time?
AIn the first three weeks he was in the same place with me, except for the few days when I visited the Sub-Kommando Welikie-Lucki, and I conscientiously recommended anti-partisan combatting to him because Foltis on his part preferred to be active as a soldier against partisans and not to shoot Jews.
QWell, you said here in your testimony just a few minutes ago: "you left it ot Foltis to determine what shootings were to take plac." You left it up to him, didn't you?
AAt the time it was the question of anit-partisan comtatting and accordingly I was forced to leave the decision up to him.
QYou left it up to him whom he was to shoot?
AAs part of the regulations for the Army concerning partisan combatting.
QYou left it up to him to determine whom to shoot. He was to decide whether they were partisans or not, is that right?
ATogether with the officials and together with the Army he was to determine this in such a form as I have described during my direct examination .
QWell, he was to determine whether a person was a partisan or not. He was to determine whether to shoot or not?
AIn the cases, and at least 80% of the cases it was the question of joint operations with the army in which officials, and the Field Police, not Foltis, carried out an investigation.
QWell, take those cases where the Army wasn't there. You said in 80% of the cases. In 20% of the cases did he decide whom to shoot?
AIn the rest of the case's he decided, but, after that, he reported to me orally and also in writing, so that I was informed.
QYes.
ASo that I was informed.
QAfter he did the shooting, he advised you what he had done?
AThe operations were not in the city of Welish, but they were carried out.
QPlease answer the question. After he had conducted the operation, he reported to you what he had done?
AYes, ---
QYes, so he did have some independence of judgement?
AYes, there -
QAnd in that independence of judgement, did you limit him in any way? Did you tell him "Now shoot partisans; shoot spies; shoot saboteurs, but don't shoot Jews, just because they are Jews, or just because they won't work." Did you tell him that?
AI have already mentioned, I told him that in every case he should examine conscientiously and conduct examinations.
QAnd then you let him decide what to do?
AInasfar as outside Welish, and in the so cases it was so, he had been assigned.
Q.You at no time told him not to shoot Jews, just because they were Jews?
AThe order as it was known to Foltis and the other sub-kommando leaders, that is what I tried to reply in the direct examination, I did not revoke this order.
QThe Fuehrer Order said to shoot all Jews, didn't it?
AYes.
QAll right, now did you tell Foltis not to obey that order?
ANo, I did not revoke the order.
THE PRESIDENT:Yes, proceed.
DIRECT EXAMINATION -- Continued BY DR. MAYER:
QWitness, did you have any moral misgivings, or such as to legality at any time against your combatting all partisans?
ANo, because, as I have already said, the responsibility in the partisan combatting was up to the military authorities, who ordered the operations. Secondly, there was not other possibility of fighting the partisans in their fighting which was contrary to international laws.
QDid you not have to be afraid that innocent people would come under this measure?
ANo, I was convinced that the individual guilt was investigated.
QIn connection with partisan fighting, did you give any orders?
ANo direct orders, but during our discussions I insisted on the principle of justice and examination of each case and I pointed this out to Foltis and the other sub-kommando leaders.
QWere you always informed about the various operations?
AWhen I was there, that is, in Welish, I knew about the plan by the G-2 or by the G-2 CIC: After returning Foltis always gave me oral reports.
QWas a written report sent to Einsatzgruppe B?
AYes, Foltis made written reports about his operations which were handed on the The Group.
QYour Kommando had also the order to secure the territory against Communist resistance, as well. In what manner was this carried out?
AAs I have already explained, the Communist Party with its functionaries that is, at least in the territory of the 9th army, the carrier of the partisan combatting. The Communist functionaries and its active supporters had withdrawn into the woods and the smaller villages after the Red Army had withdrawn in order to carry on Guerilla Warfare from there. This was done in such a manner that in some villages bases here established and attack units stationed themselves in the woods. The securing of the territory against Communist resistance was identical with the partisan combatting.
QHow was it possible when partisans had been taken prisoners to recognize them as Communist functionaries?
AIn Welish and also in Demidow, the two biggest cities in that territory, the Kommando found the papers and the records of the Communist Party and of the NKWD.
QDid these documents contain specific material?
AYes, they revealed the preparation for war and the personal function of some leading personalities in case of invasion of the enemy and of the resistance to be formed.
QWhat measures were taken as a result of these documents?
AWithin the scope of the partisan combatting, they created the prerequisites for a systematic search for the active Communist leaders and of the NKWD.
QAre you trying to say that in your Kommando there was no reason for shooting if a person before the German invasion had been a member of the Communist Party or had been a Communist functionary?
AYes, owing to former membership to the Communist Party nobody was shot. The functionaries owing to orders of the Russians which had become known had bean requested and bound to carry on active resistance.
THE PRESIDENT:We may have our recess now, if you don't mind. Recess for fifteen minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL:The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT:Dr. Mayer, before you begin your direct examination the Tribunal will make the following announcement. When the Tribunal recesses on Friday afternoon, at the usual hour, it will not reconvene until the following Wednesday morning. Tuesday, November 11th, is an official holiday, a national holiday and Monday will also be a holiday. So that therefore anyone who wishes to make any arangements for that rather long week-end is now advised that he may make those arrangements.
You may proceed.
DR. MAYER:I shall continue with my direct examination.
QBefore the recess, witness, you stated that the findings of documents were the basis of the finding cut who the active Communists were among the partisans, and I have asked you the question ... Do you mean to say that, that in your Command it was no reason to shoot anybody if that person was a member of the Communist party before the invasion by the Germans?
AAs far as the former membership to the Communist party was concerned, for that no one was shot. Functionaries of the Communist party, through the orders that had been announced by Stalin and the Russian war leadership, had been obligated for active resistance behind the fronts. Of these functionaries were found to have offered such resistance shootings were carried out. This is not a persecution for political reasons, but The punishment for crimes against the occupation power, and its directives.
QWhat directives do you mean by this?
AIn public announcements of the Wehrmacht, which were made public everywhere, it was announced both in the Russian and the German language, that the Communist party was dissolved, and every type of activity on its part, as well as participation, and assistance in partisan warfare would be punishable by death.
QDid you personally take part in carrying out these measures and in the investigations and judgments?
AThe answer is connected with the answer I have already given about anti-partisan warfare, that I gave a Foltis free hand in this field, but, during personal discussions I told him my point of viewnamely, that he should treat all cases justly. In the same manner I had a long conference with the director of the Russian service for the maintenance of order in order to tell him the same things. After Foltes had left, about the 15th of October 1941, when his successor dealt with few cases which were still under way I always made tests in the cases which were still being dealt with by his successor, to see whether they were being treated justly.
QWere you convinced of the legality of the measures adopted?
AYes. It corresponded with the directives of the army, and it was a question of punishbale resistance against the German occupying power.
QI now come to the treatment of the Jewish question in the territory of your Commando. What happened as far as this question is concerned, in the area of Welish?
ADuringmy entire stay in Welish, Foltis did not undertake any action against Jews. Other leaders, too, of my Commando, no such operations.
QDo you mean to say by this that the Einsatz order in reference to the Jews was neither carried out by you, nor by any of your subordinate offices?
AYes, as far as I have been informed about it, this was so.
QFor what reasons did this not happen?
AThe most urgent security mission was combatting all partisans and the breaking up of Communist resistance, Through this activity this Commando was so busy, and had been given orders concerning partisan warfare by the Army directly, the Jewish, question was pushed into the background.
The order for the execution of Jews, only because they Were Jews, was considered by me as humanity impossible. Of course, this opinion was not valid for those cases in which individual Jews or groups of Jews had committed crimes. In such a case I would, of course, have approved measures against Jews because like every inhabitant of occupied territory, they were under German jurisdiction and subject to German laws.
QDid you do anything against the execution of the anti-Jewish order in the area of Welish?
AI have already said before, that the order as it was known to my office, and as it has been carried out in some cases that I did not revoke this order - but I did not renew it, for my part, nor did I issue it again.
QCould you have revoked the order?
ANo, I could not, If I did not want to expose myself to punishment, namely an obvious punishment for refusing to obey the order of the chief of state.
QWhat do you mean to say, when you say that you did not give the order or renew it?
AI achieved by this that my office had the certainty that I did not insist on the execution of this order.
QCould you assume that you were in a position to avoid the execution of the order?
AYes, in cases when my commando entered areas containing no Jews, or very few Jews. This was possible on the basis of Army instruction which I had. This was valid for the area of Moscow, with the exception of the city of Moscow itself. Because in this area up to the revolution of 1917 the settlement of Jews had been prohibited by the Czarist government.
QDid you see any other ways of evading the order?
AI saw another possibility owing the actual situation that I could keep the Commando busy with fighting partisans, so that if my superior would ask me about it I could point out to this activity of my Commando.
And the final possibility was that I might move the Commando so near the fronts that the execution of the order would be impossible. For this reason I did so in the following period.
QDid you worry about the activity of your sub-commando in Wellikie Lucki?
AAs I have laready said, I visited the sub-commando, and spent about two days with it.
QWhat was the security position in this area?
AAccording tp report by the responsible commanding officer of the sub-commando, the city was relatively quiet. As far as I remember, there were hardly any Jews, or no Jews at all. On the other hand, in the vicinity of Welikie Lucki a partisan movement had been formed and the commando had accomplished several missions there.
15 November 1947_A_MSD_22_1_Hoxsie (Lea)
QDuring your stay in Weliki_Luki did you give any orders for executions or did you confirm the orders already given, or did you demand that these orders be executed expressly?
ANo. as far as this kommando is concerned. I asked that every individual case he thoroughly investigated and tried justly.
QWere you later in Weliki_Luki again?
AI cannot answer this question with certainty, but it is probable that at the end of the month of September I was once more there for two days.
QWere you ever given information according to which the kommando in Weliki_Luki carried out an anti-Jewish operation?
ANo, I never received such a message.
QDid this kommando undertake executions of active Communists and partisans?
AYes, I can remember that reports about such executions were sent to me.
QWhat were the following garrisons of your kommando?
AIn the beginning of October 1941 one small detachment under leadership of Foltis during the battle of Vyazma, moved toward Vyazama with a tank unit. with a mission to secure the documents in Vyazama. The kommando remained there for several days, about until the 15th of October Subkommanaos remained in Welish and Welikie_Luki at that time.
QWhere did you yourself stay in the following period of time?
AIn the beginning of October I went to the Army staff in order to discuss the advance of my kommando with the G_2, corresponding to the military Voperations as they had been laid down. As future garrisons Rshev and Kalinen were intended. I received the permission from the G_2 and his consent to move into these places with the combat troops. Order were issued by the Army to that effect.
QWhy did you consider it important to move your kommando into the front area?
AFirst of all, only in this manner would I have the possibility 5 November 1947_A_MSD_22_2_Hoxsie (Lea) of finding important documents, Secondly, the advance on Kalinin was considered a part of the operation against Moscow, the capture of which was expected.
Thirdly, by moving my kommando up to the front troops, I hoped, as I just said, to evade the execution of the anti-Jewish order.
QDid you have any special cause at this time to fear a Compulsion about executing this order?
AYes. After I returned to Welish from the G_2, after this conference which I have just mentioned, I found the news that Foltis had been recalled to Berlin, As a result I immediately had to go to the kommando in Vyazma. I did not know itsgarrison at that time but I had to go there to relieve Foltis. Therefore, I ordered the kommando Welish the order to bring in the subkommando in Weliki_Luki as soon as the road to Vyazma, was free, and to go there and to find out where the garrison was then I personally started the trip with twp vehicles, and since I went via Smolensk where Brigadier-General Nebe had his headquarters, I reported to him, and I informed him about my intention of advancing. On this occasion, Nebe came to talk about the prospective activity of the kommando in Moscow and he told me, among other things, that the kommando 7a had thus far not shot any Jewish women and children, but the Fuehrer order referred to all Jews, and the other would have to be carried out accordingly.
QDid you object to Nebe about carrying out this order?
ANo. After I clearly saw that this order had been given to this extent by the highest authority in the State, I considered expressing my opinion directly to Nebe impossible, impossible because of my tactics which I had started, I considered such an opinion as dangerous insofar as the order then certainly would have to be executed.
QDid you have the impression during that conference that Nebe knew that your kommando had not executed any Jews during your time?
ANebe did not receive any reports about Jewish executions from me or my subordinate officers. He, therefore, could have only judged by 5 November 1947_A_MSD_22_3_Hoxsie (Lea) the experiences which he had made with my predecessor.
QDid you go back to Welish or Weliki_Luki, after this conference?
ANo, I did not return to any of those places.
QDid you at any time during your stay with Kommando 7a pass on this clear order of Nebe's to your subordinate offices?
ANo. I did not pass it. on.
QHow did things develop after that?
AAbout the middle of the month of October I took over the command of the subkommando Vyazma from Foltis who had now returned to Germany via Smolensk, and around the 20th of October I reached Rshev.
There I set up a head quarters and moved to Kalinin with a small detachments of the subkommando in the last days of October, and in the early days of November. As far as I remember I reached Kalinin about the 7th of November. Up to my final departure from the kommando on the 10th of December, since approx. middle of November, Rshev and Kalinin were the garrisons of this kommando.
QWhat happened to the subkommando Welish and Weliki_Luki?
AThe two had not joined up in Welish as ordered since the road connections had been completely interrupted by partisan action. There fore, the end of October, beginning of November, they proceeded toward Rshev separately, Since a period of muddy weather had made the roads impassable and since a great number of vehicles got stuck because of this, the arrival of these subkommandos was delayed until the middle of November, Part of the time some detachments had spent some time in Smolensk with the Group.
QWhat was the type of activity of your kommando in Rshev and Kalinin?
ADuring my stay in Rshev, this was about from the 20th to the 27th of October, we were busy setting up a headquarters, end I also think I can remember that we made the beginning of setting up an auxiliary Russian police force. When I left for Kalinin its work had not yet started.
5 November 1947_A_MSD_22_4_Hoxsie (Lea)
QDid you later spend any more time in Rshev.
AYes I was in Rshev again two to three days each time. That happened whenever I reported to the Army Staff which was still a little further back.
QDid you know any details about the activities of the kommando in Rshev?
ANo, I don't remember any such details, I don't know whether executions were carried out there.
QDo you know whether an action against Jews took place in Rshev?
AI did not order such an action against Jews in Rshev and I never heard of any, but if such an action had taken place I would certainly have hoard about it.
THE PRESIDENT:Then your answer to that question is that no execution did take place there?
THE WITNESS:That is right. As far as I was informed no such execution took place.
Q (By Dr. Mayer) What did your kommando do in Kalinin?
ADuring the time of my entire stay in Kalinin, because of the front situation there were extraordinary conditions there. The front went along the northeastern border of the city. Therefore, during the entire time the city was under the artillery bombardment of the Russians. The German division staffs, for example, were still west of the city. The first house which we wanted to use as headquarters had to be evacuated because of direct hits.
The kommando suffered some casualties during this attack. The activity to secure the city area, which was always interrupted because of the front situation, was concerned exclusively with Russian espionage and with frequently appearing sabotage detachments. Here too we made an attempt to set up an auxiliary Russian police force, and at the request of the town commandant we picked out Rusian personalities and investigated them, who would be used for the preparation of the city.
5 November 1947_A_MSD_22_5_Hoxsie (Lea)
QDid any executions take place during that time?
AYes, in a few cases because of proven espionage or because of attacks.
QWere any Jews living in Kalinin?
AYes, I happened to hear that there were a few Jews in Kalinin.
QDid executions of Jews take place?
ANo. Because of the immediate proximity of the front area, which was connected with the immediate action by the enemy, this question did not actually come up for the missions of the kommando could only consist here of fighting espionage and partisans. Every superior would have had to see this point of view.
QHow long were you in Kalinin with your kommando?
AThe kommando was there from about the 7th of November. May I correct myself? I personally was there from the 7th of November to about the 7th of December. During this time I was absent from there about two weeks - although not consequently - once in Smolensk and a few times in Rshev.
QWhen did you personally leave Kalinin for the last time?
AOn the 6th or 7th of December, 1941 On that date I left for Rshev in order to go to Germany on furlough.
QDid you have permission to leave your kommando?
AYes. I had gotten the consent of my superior, and with his consent I had handed over the kommando to a deputy.
5 November 1947_A_MSD_23_1_Hoxsie (Lea)
QI still have a few questions to ask of you which concern your entire activity as a kommando leader. As a kommando leader did you ever attend, an execution?
ANo.
QDid you ever order such an execution in individual cases?
AGenerally not, but as already mentioned, as far as I investigated or made check-ups on measures carried out by my subordinate officers, this investigation sometimes would confirm such an order.
QDuring your activity were all the executions compiled in lists made of them?
ANo.
THE PRESIDENT:Dr. Mayer, I didn't quite understand his answer. You asked him if he ever ordered an execution. He says generally not. Now, he either did order an execution or he did not, 'Generally not' to me signifies that he did order some executions even though that was not his usual practive. Now, did he or did he not order executions?
THE WITNESS:Your Honors in the following sentence I said that in those cases in which I investigated. Some cases handled by my subordinate officers and in which I had one of these officers submit to me one of those cases, and when his decision was to execute, then by examing the case I confirmed such a decision and thereby ordered such an execution.
THE PRESIDENT:Well then, you did order an execution?
THE WITNESS:In a few individual cases which I examined myself I ordered executions, yes.
Q (By Dr. Mayer) during your activity was a current list of executions kept?
ANo, I neither found such a list when I took over command of the kommando nor was such a list kept during my time.
QIn your opinion, where do all the total numbers of executions listed in these documents originate from, where do they come from?
AI don't know. At any rate they were not listed by my kommando.
5 November 1947_A_MSD_23_2_Hoxsie (Lea) The documents submitted to me which show these total figures cannot possibly he correct in my opinion. May I come hack to this when I discuss the various documents?
QOn what was you collaboration with the Army based?
AThe Special Commando 7a, on the basis of the Barbarossa Order which has been mentioned here before was assigned to the Ninth Army. On this the cooperation with the Army is based and the orders given by the Army to the kommando.
QWhat did this order mean to you?
AIt meant that my kommando would have to carry out security tasks in the roar area of this Army and then safeguard important documentary material, furthermore, that that kommandoo as far as supply is concerned, was under the Army, and that for operational reasons the Army could exclude the activity of the kommando in certain localities.
QDid such exclusions take place?
ANo.
QWere you only active in the rear Army area?
ANo. When I received the order to go to Vyazma, Rshev and Kalinin I got the G_2's consent to use my kommando in the operational area, that is in the front area, as this had already been granted to predecessor.
QDid you personally have contact or connections with agencies of the 9th Army?
AYes. After my arrival I introduced myself to the G_2 of the Army, or rather I was introduced there by their liaison officer, and during my activity I had frequent conferences with the G_2.
QWhy did you just keep contact with the G_2?
AIn the Barbarossa Order it was designated as the competent liaison with kommando.
QDid your activity bring you into contact with other Army agencies?
5 November 1947_A_MSD_23_3_Hoxsie (Lea)
AYes, especially with the G_2 counter intellegence officer. That is with the officer working on counterintellegence under G_2. Other agencies were field commands and town commands and divisional staffs.
QDid the assignment of your kommando to the 9th Army have any influence on your activity?
AThe conditions already described, especially in the area of the 9th Army, in view, of the partisan question, carried with it the fact that the kommando during my time worked almost exclusively under the direct order of the Army or under subordinate units of that Army. The executions mentioned in the documents can be traced back to. direct orders by Army agencies, or they are the results of such order.
QDuring your presence in your kommandoo what was your work?
AOutside of the organizational and command tasks which I have already mentioned, I devoted myself to SD reports, and I tried to give as exact a picture as possible of the area of the Soviet Union in which I found myself.
5 November 1947_A_MSD_24_1_Spears (Lea)
QBut what did you report in these SD reports?
ADuring the few weeks in Welish I worked on the collective farm system and collected documents about the position of the Russian church and Bolshevist state.
QHow did you acquire the documents of such reports?
AI had Russian personalities called to see me who were experts in their fields, and I had them report to me partly orally, partly in written form then I inspected a collective farm, and I had them give me documents about the size, the harvest about the quota of harvest, handed over about the machinery, etc. then I sopke to the workers in the collective farms by means of an interpreter, and also with former real estate owners. I then collected these impressions in a report. BY THE PRESIDENT:
QWhere did this all take place?
ADuring the time I was in Welish.
QAnd how far away was that from the front?
AWelish was about 60 kilometers from the front, which was at the time fixed until the time of October.
QNow, you say that when you were up close to the front you didn't have time to consider the Jewish question, but you had time to go around collecting statistics on farms and crops and agriculture, and finding out how things grew, and did not grow, and you completely forgot about the Fuehrerorder which demanded immediate and complete action?
AYour Honor, I can divide the time of my activity in two periods, the area Welish-Welikielucki, on one hand, secondly, the area Rshew-Kalinin, on the other hand. In the area Welish-Welikielucki, the described partisan activity was cause for orders, on the part of the army.
QJust a minute, please, now, you were part of an Einsatzgruppe, weren't you?
AYes.
5 November 1947_A_MSD_24_2_Spears (Lea)
QAnd "Einsatz" means "action"?
AYes.
QYou were sent into the field for action?
AYes.
QYou were to combat partisans, saboteurs, spies, and shoot Jews, that was the purpose of Einsatzgruppe, wasn't it?
AYes.
QNow, you tell us that you were spending your time touring the countryside, looking over farmland, and leisurely writing up reports, which you sent back, what about this order which you had?
AThe order also spoke of SD reports, and the entire organization even with the Einsatzgruppe staff were such that next to the chief of the Einsatzgruppe there was an officer of SD reports, a Leader 3 and Va Leader 4, who was competent for police executive measures. These two items were both mentioned in this report.
QAt this time you say the front was quiet, now was partisan activity quiet also?
ANo The partisans were active.
QThey were active?
AYes.
QWell, then, how could you spend time making reports on beans, and wheat,and land and so on, if the partisans were active?
ABecause of what I have already said, I left the fighting of partisans to Foltis and militarily trained leaders, and according to my activity which I had carried on before the Russian campaign, I was devoting myself to SD reports.
QWell, then, are we to understand that so far as you were concerned this Fuehrerorder was purely academic, you were just a country farmer, and a little tout, and that you weren't engaged in fighting partisans or killing Jews, you were just on a nice, little jaunt, gathering up these reports and sending them in, is that what we are to understand?
AYour Honor, I said that I spoke with the subcommando officers 5 November 1947_A_MSD_24_3_Spears (Lea) about these tasks, that I checked on their activities, and I have also explained why I, as a man with no militarily training did not participate in these partisan action.
The documents show this action clearly, how they were carried out.
QWell then, now you tell us that you were not even against partisans?
AI said that I did not personally participate in them.
QWell then you didn't have anything to do with shooting at all while you were in the field in charge of an Einsatzkommando?
AI said that I had reports sent to me, and that in some cases I carried out personal investigations.
QBut so far as taking any interactive in the field, you took none?
AI did not take any other interactive, merely move my commando up to the front in Kalinin, and to maintain contact with the army agencies.
QWho appointed you to the Einsatzkommando?
AEvidently, the office of Chief I Streckenback of Berlin.
QDid Streckenbach know that you were gun shy?
AI was not afraid of guns, and I was not afraid of shooting.
QWell, I must confess that it is a little mysterious and bewildering to me how they could put you in charge of an active unit when you say that you didn't do any fighting against partisans, you didn't execute the Fuehrerorder to kill Jews, and you merely sat at a desk and wrote up reports on farms and confirmed reports which were sent to you by your subleaders.
AYour Honor, I said that I investigated those things, that I made check-ups, that I visited my subcommandos in the Welikielucki once or twick, and that I spoke to the subcommand officer about his activity. That I didn't lead a platoon of active SS men into the forests was due to the fact that I was not militarily in a position to lead such an expedition in the military manner, and as it had become evident 5 November 1947_A_MSD_24_4_Spears (Lea) in the documents, when two army divisions comb through a territory, clean out a territory, and the commando is supposed to furnish interrogation detachments, then I, as a commando leaders, who knew nothing about the interrogations until then would hardly be able to lead a tiny platoon of 5 interrogators in an Army unit.