Court No. II, Case No. IX.
did yesterday during my direct examination. In the preceding months and that is during a period of three months no reports were supplied concerning executions and other police activities of the Einsatzgruppe B. This report deals with a period from 6 to 30 March. That covers a period of reporting which did not exist for us at the time, because according to orders our reports were made at the deadline of the. 1st and 15th of each month. The compiling of reports from the 6th to the 30th is something so unusual that doubtlessly one of the superior agencies either the Einsatzgruppe or RSHA, to whom these reports after all went, an arbitrary compiling had been made. This I presume even more so since in this document all Kommandos of the Einsatzgruppe B are combined in this period from the 6th to the 30th. My neighboring Kommando, if this report would be assumed correct, would have executed two weeks after the happenings described therein occurred, This report is dated 21 April. Therefore, the executions would have occurred still in April, in the first week of April, when you were actually in the field with the Kommando. So, therefore, why wouldn't this enumeration be correct? necessarily as a basis. I remind you of the document containing the report about the operation "Eisbaer" which only appeared seven weeks after the actual operation. Therefore, one cannot always say it is two weeks. I can remember that on occasions four or five weeks passed and then a report was made. Now are we to understand that the report was delayed in each instance just long enough to get beyond the time that you were involved? apparently made after a few weeks, apparently two weeks, but another report was made after seven weeks, I do not want to say that it was Court No. II, Case No. IX.
always made after two weeks.
Q Well, tell us about this episode. Do you know anything about it; when your Kommando killed eighty-two persons, nineteen of whom had collaborated with partisans, twenty-two had spread Communist propaganda, fourteen had made inflammatory statements, and twentyseven were simply Jews? Do you know of this episode? out during the first time of my activity of my Kommando, and if that had actually happened, I would remember the cases individually even today; but I can assure you that neither during March nor during April executions of eighty-two people were carried out. just about come within that period; you took over the Kommando in the early part of March, This is dated April 21st so that even allowing for the maximum delay, this happening would still have occurred within the period of your incumbency, would it net? number of eighty-two, if it is correct, would, have been at the beginning of March or at the end of March, or at the beginning of April or at the end of April, but I can assure you that neither in March nor in April executions of this high number have been carried out, The first impressions which I would have gained during my first period of command would doubtlessly recall such happenings. mentioned yesterday? of six months, there were a number of miner cases and several operations, during which these twenty Jaws mentioned were apprehended, I said already yesterday that when operations were carried out against saboteurs and partisans, these Jews were seized too and they had to be shot. No matter whether or not they were partisans, whether or not they confessed because the Fuehrer Order automatically came into Court No. II,Case No. IX.
effect. about this Fuehrer Order when you first heard it, and then you said this morning to Mr. Ferencz's questioning that you never in any way opposed the order. If you were so shocked by it, why didn't you release some of these Jews? You had the opportunity, You were in command. Why didn't you release some of them? thing, namely consistency. Either I must shoot them all whom I capture or I have to release them all. To shoot some and let others escape would have been impossible for me. anybody, why couldn't you after having investigated the case of a Jew or several Jews have released them on the ground that they were innocent? and because I did not feel myself authorized and in the position to evade this order which had been given to me as a soldier. which you operated?
Q Did the Jews also speak Russian?
Q Yes. What designating characteristic proved that a Jew was a Jew? a Jew were not very difficult to establish, whether they be White Ruthenians or Great Russians or whatever they were, The Eastern Jew especially in Russia in his appearance is so characteristic that you cannot mix them up for anybody else. Furthermore, the people concerned when asked did always volunteer to give us their race or nationality. They never denied that.
as contrary to humanity, could you not have "salved " your conscience and your sensibilities by having released one helpless, piteous, defenseless Jew?
A Your Honor, first of all I didn't see a defenseless Jew, because wherever we captured Jews it was in the territories of the Partisan groups, they were rather militarilly fit , but even if a defenseless Jew had been sent to me and I would have to reach a decision and I could not have made an exception. and because of the Fuehrer Order which you felt compelled to follow? shot them down? defenseless. That is correct, isn't it?
Q Yes. How, witness, you spoke yesterday of executing a Jewess. On page 45 of your Document Book a reference is made to Jewesses. Did you kill more than one woman Jew?
A Your Honor, this is a report of 23 March 1942. This matter is unknown to me.
Q Very well, we won't waste any time on it then. How many executions did you witness, Ott?
Q How many people were involved in those executions? rogation was discussed. This was in Bryansk during my training period -
Q I just want to know, how many?
Q Six. The second execution how many were killed? near or at least in the vicinity of Orel -
Q How many were killed?
Q The third execution, how many were killed? to my recollection there were eleven people involved. I remember the incident why they were executed.
Q Yes. You indicated that when you went into Russia, that you didn't know the object of your mission. As we recall your testimony, you went to the RSHA in Berlin, and asked for on assignment; you indicated you wanted to go to the front; at any rate, later on you were called and you were given this assignment in Russia. In view of the fact that you had particularly asked for an assignment, why is it that you did not learn what the assignment was to be? I received by writing, and in this decree it merely said, "You are detailed to Einsatzgruppe D, and you will be in charge of the Special commando VII-B", and it said a little more there, "You will have to report to the chief of Einsatzgruppe" in Smolensk or something to that effect. would be?
Q And you didn't inquire? and Bohemia.
Q You joined the Nazi Party in 1922?
Q You were out of it how long, about a year?
Q Yes. You were out then about three years because of this difficulty you had had with the leader?
Q You, at no time, denounced the ideology of the Nazi Party? National Socialist at heart.
Q Yes, You took the oath to Hitler?
Q You took it voluntarily? oath to Hitler? to me that Adolf Hitler said, in 1933, in the Braune Haus in Munich, during a training course, for the SA: "No SA man and no Party member need ever have any pangs of conscience - if he gives his oath of allegiance to me".
Q And you accepted that?
Q And acted according to it during all the time of your service?
Q Do you regret ever having taken that oath to Hitler? with just one word. I was a National Socialist, and until the very last days of this war I was convinced of this idea, and I was of the conviction that Hitler had wanted to do his best for his Fatherland, and, I believe if the and of this war had been different, than we had expected during good times, then those were not the ideas which were at fault but the bearers of the idea who were at fault.
aims? conquered by Hitler?
A We, at the time, didn't think of it in that way as a conqueror of Europe, but as a protection to Europe.
Q Yes. You would have been satisfied to have see, all of Europe protected by Hitler?
Q Just as Czechoslovakia was protected; just as Holland was protected; just as Belgium was protected; just as France was protected; just as Norway was protected, and all those countries were protected, that is the way you would like to have seen it? completely different possibilities and conditions would have been obtained and that a satisfied and happy collaboration of all European countries could have been brought about. I was convinced of that.
Q Did you ever hear any of Himmler's speeches?
Q Did you also believe in Himmler?
A Your Honor, just I answer this question?
THE PRESIDENT: You do not. The witness will be returned to the defendants, dock and the defendant Klingelhoefer will be taken to the witness stand.
(witness excused)
JUDGE DIXON: Witness, hold up your right hand and repeat after me:
"I swear by God -- "
THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment, please. Can you hear it now. Do you hear that?
THE INTERPRETER: Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
JUDGE DIXON: "I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth, end will withhold and add nothing." You may be seated.
(Whereupon the witness repeated the oath)
DR. MAYER: Dr. Erich Karl Meyer for the defendant Klingelhoefer. Your Honor, before I begin with the direct examination of the defendant, I would like something to be corrected in the records. In the German record of 16 October 1947, in the afternoon session, approximately 1330 to 1630 hours, during my examination of the defendant Naumann in the witness stand, it was established that the witness Naumann helped, recommended the defendant Klingelhoefer to receive a decoration of war merit cross,1st class; it is on page 855 and page 856 of the German record, and the English record concerning the same examination, on page 846, talks about the defendant Klingelhoefer having received the Iron Cross of first class "Iron-Cross (Eiserne kreuz)". I want to correct the records and show now that the English record shows a mistake in translation, and that the defendant Klingelhoefer only got a minor decoration, the War Merit Cross, first class.
THE COURT: Mr. Ferencz, do you see any reasons why that correction should not be made?
MR. FERENCZ: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Dr. Mayer's statement will be made a part of the record, and of itself will work the correction of the transcript.
DR. MAYER: Thank you.
BY DR. MAYER:
Q. Witness, before I put my first question to you, I shall remind you to speak slowly and take great care that the question is translated before you start answering it. The direct examination, your Honor, will be in three parts, the political activity, including the Russian assignment; part two I shall deal with discussion of documents, and in part three: The activity of his in Office VI of the Reich Security Main Office.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. BY MR. MAYER:
Q. Witness, please give us your full name.
A. My name is Waldemar Klingelhoefer.
Q. Please give us the date of your birth, your birthplace, and tell about your family.
A. I was born on 4 April 1900 in Moscow. Son of a Cemetery Director, Hans Klingelhoefer. I have been married since 1932, and I have bee married since 1932, and I have four children.
Q. What training did you receive before you joined the SS and the SD?
A. I attended school first of all in Moscow and then in Kassel the High School with a scholastic education, and in 1919 I passed my matriculation. After that I studied music. Then I became a concert singer, and a singing tutor. From 1933 until 1934 I was employed as en opera singer at the State Theatre of Kassel.
Q. Why and when did you join the NSDAP?
A. Through my relationship and connection in Russian circles in Germany, and my interest in my native country of Russia, I recognized the grave danger which Germany, and moreover Europe was threatened with by Bolshevism and its world revolutionary ideas; the development of conditions in Germany made me accept the conviction that the political opinions as held by the NSDAP were the only possible solution in order to fight the Bolshevist attacks on Europe which could be expected, and which was able to resist this attack.
This conviction made me decide to join the NSDAP as a member. On 1 June 1930 I became a member of the Party.
Q. When and for what reasons did you join the General-SS?
A. When in the Summer of 1932 I reckoned with a lengthy stay in Kassel, I applied for membership in the SS, the reason for the enlistment in the SS was due to the fact that immediately afterwards I was engaged in a concert tour, this enlistment didn't come into effect; but after I returned from this concert tour on 1 February 1933, I finally joined the General-SS.
Q. How and when did you go to the SD?
A. Through my membership in the General-SS, 1, as a native German, living abroad due to my linguistic capability was acquainted with the information service of the SD; when for reasons of health I had been forced to relinguish my profession as a singer, the suggestion was made to me to join the SD, which for reasons of my special knowledge was of great interest for the SD. As I had had no other training, and as I had to support my family, I accepted this proposal, and, on 1 December 1934 I joined the SD full time in the Kassel sector.
Q. What activity did you indulge up to the beginning of the war?
A. First, I became just an office worker without any special duties, as the SD sector in Kassel was only just being built up. From the Fall of 1936, I took in charge of the cultural department, and in 1937 I was confirmed a departmental expert for the department of culture in the SD sector of Kassel.
My assignment contained reporting, conditions the SD sector of Kassel.
In details there were the subjects ture. These reports served the purpose of information for the higher administrative authorities.
Q. Did you have anything to do with the executive?
A. No, my activity mostly consisted of compiling reports
Q. What kind of material was it then?
A. There were reports by the sub-offices which were re ceived for the individual subjects of culture.
These reports
Q. What happened to your reports?
A. Those reports were submitted to the chief of the SD
Q. Could your reports be used as the basis for persecu tion of any people, by the Gestapo?
A. No, these reports, in shape and content matter, dealt
Q. Did your activity change when the war broke out?
A. Yes. With the beginning of the war in September 1939, the population; and to the evaluation of propaganda end film government and conditioned by the war.
This reporting was a matter of two or three times a week.
Apart from this, from the middle of 1940, approximately, I translated Russian material concerning the Russian emigration in France, which was submitted to me from the agency of the Reich Security main Office in Paris. This work I continued until May 1941, that is, until I was detailed to Pretsch.
THE PRESIDENT: I think that seems a very likely point at which to stop for recess, Dr. Mayer.
DR. MAYER: Your Honor, I have two questions to ask before I start on a new subject. There questions are very brief. May I put them to the witness?
THE PRESIDENT: Certainly.
Q. Witness, these situation reports which you issued after the outbreak of the War, could they be used against people on the part of the prosecution authorities.
A. No. The whole nature of these reports about morale was the same as the nature of the reports which I had issued before the War.
Q. Your Honor, thank you. I think the next question can be put after the recess.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. The Tribunal will be in recess for fifteen minutes.
(A recess was taken)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Mayer proceed. DR. MAYER for Klingelhoefer: Einsatzkommando? order from the RSHA according to which I was to be sent to the Police Training School in Pretsch immediately. The purpose of this order was not given.
Q What happened in Pretsch?
A Nothing of importance happened in Pretsch. I was merely uniformed and equipped suitable for a frontal campaign. I was taken to the neighboring village of Schmiedeberg where I was injected against typhus, cholera and pox. BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q Witness, before you wont to Pretsch were you already in uniform? field uniform?
A Yes, in Pretsch I received a new uniform. When I received the order it said expressly I should go there in civilian clothes and that I would get a new uniform in Pretsch.
Q Did you sometimes wear civilian clothes during the war?
Q I see. Thank you. BY DR. MAYER:
Q Witness, was the purpose of these measures made known to you? Pretsch were called for a roll-call. On that occasion Streckenbach appeared together with a number of SS officers. There the officers and men who were lined up were divided into groups end Kommandos.
I myself came to Kommando VII-B as an interpreter. During this rollcall the officers and men were told by Streckenbach that this was an assignment which required from all officers and men their utmost in duty and the utmost in discipline. The Reichsfuehrer expected everyone to do his duty to the bitter end. After this roll-call the Einsatzgruppen were distributed. BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q How many men were at this meeting, please?
A Your Honor, this was not a meeting. This was a roll cell in the open air. All the men were lined up there who were assigned to all the Einsatzgruppen A, B, C, or D, and during this roll call all the men were subdivided into Kommandos or Groups.
Q Well how many men in all were at this roll call?
A Your Honor, it is very difficult to estimate this. I cannot do that. gruppen A, B, C and D?
Q And who made speeches, only Streckenbach?
A Only Streckenbach spoke at this roll call. He just stated general instructions to the men for this assignment, without further instructions.
Q Did he go into details of any kind?
A No. Not at all. It was just e general speech.
Q Yes. Did Heydrich appear at this meeting?
A No. Heydrich arrived later.
Q I see, and do you remember the date of this roll call?
A No, Your Honor, I cannot remember that. That was about - well, I was ordered from Kassel in the end of May or the beginning of June and about two weeks later this roll call took place - about the middle of June.
BY DR. MAYER: Bad Dueben in the following time.
THE PRESIDENT: Proceed, Mr. Mayer. BY DR. MAYER: kommandos were going to perform; what did Streckenbach say about this? the Einsatzkommandos. The speech was merely limited to general orientation about the duties of officers and men as soldiers during an assignment.
Q What tasks were carried out in Dueben? Sonderkommando 7b, and subdivided it. It was split up into two executive platoon and one SD platoon.
Q What tasks and orders did you yourself receive? of the Russian language, as an interpreter in the commando. The Commando Leader Rausch, however, gave me, being on SD man, the special order to organize the SD platoon. From the men I had. I selected those men who had come from the SD, or who because of their ability and their previous training seemed suitable for intelligence tasks. take place? before the Einsatzgruppe left Dueben to go to the Russian border, my Commando Chief Rausch made a roll call of his commando on which occasion he announced that Russia was the destination of the assignment. chief?
the security of the territory in the rear of the fighting units and the reporting on of important material, and also the usual reporting of the SD. Concerning the manner of warfare with Russia which was to be expected, Rausch said that Russia neither has recognized neither respected international law nor the Geneva Convention nor The Hague hale of Land Warfare, and therefore are had to expect that the enemy would conduct this war by all means possible and ruthlessly. Therefore, we would have to combat them in the same manner, and in the came ruthless manner. Therefore, the war laws and the courts martial were rescinded for this assignment by an order of the High Command of the Army as to the treatment of this enemy.
THE PRESIDENT: Pardon me, may I have that again? I didn't quite catch it. BY DR. MAYER:
Q Witness, would you please repeat?
A From the beginning? consisting in the securing of the rear Army territory, reporting of all important material, as well as the general reporting of the S.D. Concerning the manner of warfare with Russia which we had to expect, Rausch said that Russia disregarded international law and the Geneva Convention or The Hague Convention of Land Warfare, and therefore, it had to be expected that the enemy would conduct this war ruthlessly and by using all possible means to achieve their end.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, now I did get that much of it. It is from this point on that it was a little difficult to grasp. How, state what you are going to state now a little slowly, please. BY DR. Mayer:
Therefore, the war laws and the courts martial were not to be applied concerning the enemy. These laws had been given by the Sigh Command. and they were to be disregarded as far as the enemy was concerned.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, here is where the difficulty arises. You say these laws had been given by the High Command and were to be disregarded so far as the enemy was concerned?
THE WITNESS: Yes, the commando leader said this, that this military law and this martial law should not be applied concerning the enemy in this case the USSR at the order of the High council.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh.
THE WITNESS: In this case this means Russia.
THE PRESIDENT: Could I state it this way, that the laws concerning the treatment of the enemy did not need to be followed in the fight against Russia because Russia itself was disregarding those some love?
THE WITNESS: Yes, that is the meaning.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
THE WITNESS: Since great activity on the past of the opponent had to be expected in the rear of the fighting unit, all officers and men must be prepared to do their duty to the end. BY DR. MAYER:
Q What did Rausch say about the manner of securing the territory? Einsatzkommandos because of the fact that the Fuehrer had given an order to the effect that the Jews in the USSR were to be shot as being the strongest bearers of Bolshevism in Russia. The commander of the Security Police and the SD realized fully how hard this would be for the officers and men psychologically to execute this task. An attempt had been made to revoke,this order, but nothing was of avail, the order must be carried out by the commandos because of its necessity for the security. He refusal can be allowed because it is en order from the Supreme Command.
For he same reason, according to this Fuehrer Order, all political functionaries and Gypsies were to be shot as factors of danger in the occupied territory, women and children should also be shot?
A No, women and children were not mentioned expressly. It merely said, "Jews, functionaries end Gypsies". the Einsetzkommandos? his opinion that his commando, as a Sonderkommando, would have nothing to do with these measures. The Sonderkommandos would follow the advance troops without delay and would merely have to carry out the first security tasks; while carrying out the measures contained in the Fuehrer Order would be dealt with only by the following Einsatzkommandos who had been especially assigned to do this, and who would be stationary. the orders for the Einsatzkommando? beginning was that something extremely severe end sinister was to come about, My inner reaction was immediately to evade this as far me possible, although I fully realized at the time that the special situation raising from this war, this war again Russia, required special measures, and although I fully realized that the Jewry in Russia in its entirety as convinced followers of Bolshevism would constitute a great danger in the rear of the German Armies, my inner attitude however objected to this, that people should be killed without prowled any guilt. On the other hand, there was the order by the Supreme Commander of the State, and no one could contradict it, and not understanding the higher conceptions and ideas behind this, which the higher political and military Leadership of the state had, I had to assume that this measure was absolutely necessary in the interests of the successful ending of the war in the East, and therefore in the interest of the people and the State.