THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. STUEBINGER for Braune: Your Honor, I would like the defendant Braune to be excused from the session this afternoon as I have to discuss with him various matters concerning his document book.
THE PRESIDENT: The defendant Braune will be excused from attendance in Court this afternoon.
BY DR. BELZER for the defendant Mathias Graf: examination of the witness. you were to be assigned to the Russian campaign you have not answered yet. When did you go to the East? it was the 23rd. I do not remember exactly.
Q What was the means of transport of the Kommando? the Soviet Union?
Q What was the first garrison of EK-6 in Russian territory?
Q How long did you stay in Lemberg? 6 July 1941.
Q What did you do in Lemberg? Einsatzkommando C-6 arrived in Lemberg. The NKWD building which was assigned to us for billets, a former Polish bank, was at that time inhabited by other units. I believe EK-4-B, EK-5, and EK-C, as well as the Security Police and Crakau, his name was Schoengat, were housed in the center of the town in the school. The vehicles stood on a open square and had to be guarded.
For sentry duty those were appointed who had no special assignment yet. On the first day of our stay I had sentry duty. On the second day I had 24 hour standby. I was to be relieved by SS-Unterscharfuehrer Krimminger. As he did not arrive I took his guard duty as well in order to protect him from punishment. Later on I found out that he was unconscious, apparently poisoned, and he had been delivered to the Hospital. Krimminger came from my home town and at the same time was my superior officer. I asked the Kommando chief SSStandartenfuehrer Dr. Kroeger to care for Krimminger. I got this order and I went to see Krimminger in the field hospital. I turned over to the medical officer his personal belongings, that is, Krimminger's and I tried, as the staff him whether I could take he, Krimminger, would die very soon, I asked him whether I could take his last greetings to his wife. Unfortunately he never woke up again from him unconsciousness. especially of carrying out execution of Jews? active in the actual main building but what they were doing I never learned. EM-6?
A EK-6 moved to the East. As it was raining and the roads were in very poor condition -- they had been partly destroyed -- EK-6 moved very very slowly. We spent the nights in various villages on the roadside and eventually we moved into a brick yard in time which was two kilometers from Proskurov.
Q How long did you stay in Proskurov?
Q What did you do in Proskurov?
Q What was the next garrison?
long did you remain there? remained there until toward the end of July. period?
A No. A few days after we marched into Winiza I was detailed to the liaison officer of AOK-17. That was Untersturmfuehrer Heyer. post with Heyer? Golshevists had not destroyed and with a number of auxiliary workers, they were Russians and mechanics of the Kommando, we catalogized these films and chose the cultural films and also the propaganda films. We packed them into boxes and sent them to the Einsatzgruppe. August when I finally arrived back at my Kommando. Untersturmfuehrer Heyer? That was the Ministry of Economics Staff which had been installed. These military economic leaders had the task to issue several economic decrees. All roads met there. As this economic staff was advancing together with the 17th Army therefore a contact with the SD work was of major importance. In Winiza, however, there was no such German office. untersturmfuehrer Heyer, or did these bits of information also have bits of police matter or were they just merely general information concerning all domestic spheres?
concerning all domestic spheres. you arrived back with your Einsatz-Kommando 6. Where did you meet your Kommando?
Q How long had the Kommando been there?
A I don't know how long it had been there when I arrived, but as far as I remember it remained there until the beginning of October 1941 in Kriwoij-Rog.
Q And you stayed all this time, did you? your activities in Kriwoij-Rog but be as brief as you can.
A May I just point out on the map just where Kriwoij-Rog is?
(The witness pointed out the place on the map)
THE PRESIDENT: How do you spell that town?
MR. HOCKWALD: May I spell it, your Honor? K-r-i-w-o-i-j-r-o-g, Kriwoij-Rog.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. important ones of eastern Europe. As far as I can remember 60-70% of the Russian-European supplies are being won there. While until then EK-6 had been mainly active in agricultural territories, with Agricultural installations, the Kommando came for t he first time into an industrial territory. It is obvious that, of course, through this the SD reports became of major importance to this. First of all we had to make an inventory as far as this was concerned -- how many ore mines were there before the war, what is the stateof affairs after the occupation, what industries are there, and how far they are intact. All documents concerning these things I obtained and I submitted them to the Kommando chief.
Apart from this the general reporting was started and things had to be found out such as exactly what difficulties the German Military Government wasconfronted with as far as current and lack of water supplies, assignment of indigenous personnel, it had to be esta blished whether any experts or skilled workers or technicians were available. The atmosphere of Kriwoij-Rog was something newto us as well because it was first a purely industrial town with the major part of the population being workers. Therefore, the atmosphere, the mode of the working people had to be reported about, the attitude toward the German Wehrmacht, their preparedness to take up work again, the effect of the German rules and regulations on the general atmosphere, food, health, culture, and the effect on the government. Shortly, we had more and more work with each day, therefore one man was not able to cope with it. Therefore, I suggested to the Kommando chief that as a substitute for Unterscharfuehrer Krimminger, who had died, Unterscharfuehrer Dr. Haste should be appointed as my collaborator. This was agreed to by the Kommando chief. executions on the part of EK-6?
well as the other criminal assistants and secretaries and inspectors who were all contained in the executive department, carried out arrests and interrogations. Who actually carried out executions, I do not know but I only knew that such executions were actually carried out. Jews and Gypsies without being interrogated first?
Q Did not on one occasion Himmler come to Kriwoij-Rog to Kommando 6?
A Yes, I think it was at the end of September 1941. As it was known that Himmler was very interested in German settlements, the Kommando had to prepare for his visit. That is, such settlements had to be prepared for ceremonial welcome. It was my task to deal with these preparations. which you are sitting now it was said that Himmler on the occasions of a visit to Einsatzgruppe D spoke to the officers and Men of Einsatzgruppe D and made known the Fuehrer order to them. I now ask you, did Himmler do the same with EK-6 in Kriwoij-Rog?
Q Did Himmler give a speech in front of a collection of men?
THE PRESIDENT: Did you see Himmler yourself?
THE PRESIDENT: What was the occasion? dinner, to Himmler.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you give him a good dinner?
THE PRESIDENT: If he were alive would you serve him the same dinner now?
BY DR. BELZER:
Q Where did the Kommando go after they had been in Kriwoij-Rog?
A From Kriwoij-Rog we went to Dnepro petrowsk. May I spell it D-n-e-p-r-o-p-e-t-r-o-w-s-k. Dnepropetrowsk.
Q Did you come in one unit to Dnepropetrowsk?
Q What was the unit with which you arrived there?
Q How long did the main Kommando remain in Dnepropetrowsk? in a few short sentence your activity in Dnepropetrowsk.
THE PRESIDENT: Why don't you say in that place.
A Thank you your Honor, I shall follow this ruling. - - - were similar to those in Kriwoij-Rog. The only difference was there were a number of bigger towns with specific industrial institutions. As far as I remember before the War there were in the vicinity of this town two million people living there. Again I had to ask for expert workers, skilled workers, technicians, engineers. And, through these I had to affirm and establish whether these industrial workers were still there and still available. I had to report about the re-opening of plans and industrial enterprises and about the difficulties connected with the feeding and paying of the working population, as well as other problems, such as electric current, water supply, raw materials, question of transportation, colloboration of the over-lapping German agencies, as far instance, the labor exchange, the mining offices East, railroad administration. I had to take up contact with Economic Agencies and Economic Kommandos who had already founded their central offices for the whole Kommando in Dnepropetrowsk. Apart from that, this place was a university town and the local population tried very hard to re-open the university, especially the medical faculty.
The professors had to be taken care of and the university teachers. Apart from that the effect of the independent administration, that is, the Ukranian mayor's office and the other Ukranian agencies had to be reported about. Furthermore the black market which was extremely active in this place had to be reported about. Then there was an order in existence to compile and collect all important material and yo sent it on to Kiew. Current reports went to the Kommando leader first who then passed them on to the competent agency of the AOK or to the Einsatzgruppe itself. Is your activity as a reporter to be understood with that effect that you were the information piece for the organization?
A No. SD information work and executive activity exclude each other. An SD official, for instance, cannot arrive at a place in the morning in order to carry out an arrest and then in the afternoon report about the same enterprise, about the mode and atmosphere in the working stage. that is quite impossible - dealing with the case in the executive is the work of the Police officials and for this a counter-intelligence service is necessary who has to report about actual cases of persons and who actually deals with these cases. The establishing that the working population takes and the attitude that they work whether willingly or unwillingly, or for this or that reason do not want to work, the executive authority cannot do very much with a report of this nature or, at least, they can't do anything at all with it because there is no basic case from which they can start. But such reports are very significant for all competent authorities in German Administration because if they are issued with expert knowledge they can, or may, be the basis for the elimination of unnecessary severity. Also they can be the basis of further directives and regulations.
and the administrative. what do you exactly mean by executive authorities? up to the carrying out of sentences, in other words, the assignments of Departments 4 and 5 of the domestic agencies. so-called authority in the EK-6, or rather, who was in charge of it? or state police, Stapo. authorities concerning executions, arrests, or even only interrogations in Dnepropetrowsk?
A No. I had so much to do with my work with the Einsatzgruppe C for the department chief of Department 3, that he had no reason whatsoever to assign me to deal with any tasks of the executive authorities. cutions were carried out by the Einsatzgruppe or by other authorities?
A No. In several discussions with the local population I learned that in October numerous Jews had been shot. This I reported, in accordance with my duty, to my kommando chief, the SS Standartenfuehrer Dr. Kroeger, who said that this had been a special police action ordered by the Higher SS and Police Leader Jeckeln, and no official or no man of his kommando had participated in this operation. He did not approve of such measures.
Q were you enlightened about a special figure of Jews? nor by kommando leaders and officers. members of the local population about this fact. Were you then under the impression that knowledge about such facts was a general thing among the population or that it was only certain circles who knew about it?
Ukrainian authorities. One could almost say official agencies because they had been approved of by the German administration, and it is obvious that the chief of a food supply office or the population office, or even the mayor of such a large city has, of course, some extensive knowledge, more extensive knowledge at least than any, citizen. I never heard such remarks expressed by members of the population. you see any Jews there?
Q At any time? were a usual picture in the city. Of any measures of confining these Jews to ghettos in Denpropetnowsk I never heard about. any Jews?
A No. I heard merely and only afterwards of this operation which I have mentioned on the part of the Higher SS and Police Leader Jeckeln.
Q Where did the EK 6 move from Dnepropetrowsk?
A The Kommando advanced via Saporosje to Stalino. In the activity of Saporosje, the kommando, during the night of the 12th to the 13th of November, 1941, was surprised by a fall in temperature, by a catastrophic fall in temperature. Within a few hours the temperature had fallen from plus 10 degrees Centigrade to minus 20 degrees Centigrade, and this had as a consequence that most of our vehicles froze, and the kommando chief passed on the order that the individual vehicles should move on their own independently, or at least try to move, to Stalino. The EK remained in Stalino for eight months.
Q How was the kommando billeted in Stalino? This large building made it possible for us to subdivide the kommando according to departments exactly as it was in the Reich. I myself and my collaborators moved into our own office which was a special office for Department 3, as all other departments of the kommando had other offices allocated to them.
Offices and spheres of activities of the individual departments were divided and separated. General matters were discussed by the kommando chief either in the officers: mess or in the offices of the chief, always with the man competent, to deal with the individual sphere of activity.
Q Did you have access to the officers? mess in Stalino, that is, were you able to take part in the discussions between the chief and the departmental chiefs, or could you only discuss matters with the kommando chief in his office?
AAs an NCO I had no access to the officers? mess. Discussions which I had with my kommando chief took place in his office. Even during the periodical visits of the chief in the Department 3, the discussions pertaining to my sphere of activity took place in my own office.
Q Could you never enter the cassino at all? there as an NCO. of the chief of Office 3? and asked questions concerning SD reporting which I had made and which were to go to the Einsatzgruppe, which had gone in fact to the Einsatzgruppe. Furthermore, he visited other authorities and offices, together with me and my collaborators, and he visited important plants and enterprises.
Q Did you only have to deal with SD reports exclusively in Stalino?
Q Did you make any observations in Stalino concerning executions? that arrests, interrogations had been carried out, and that in individual cases shootings had been carried out.
Stalino, were you them also in Stalino all the time? occasions. On the 20th of December, 1941, I got home leave for 21 days. For the journey there and back I needed about 18 days. On the 28th of January, 1942, I arrived in Stalino. Therefore, I was not with the kommando for five and a half weeks. That is 38 days. The second interrogations happened at the end of March, 1942. I fell ill of dysentery and I was delivered into hospital. During the second half of April, 1942, I was released from field hospital, and first of all I remained in medical treatment. Around about the 9th or 10th of May I got recreation leave of 21 days from which I returned at about the middle of July, 1942, to Stalino. This absence from my kommando therefore lasted for about three months.
Q When did the kommando leave Stalino? towards the east.
Q. did you move with the kommando?
A. No, by order of Einsatgruppe C for "Charles" I remained until further order at Stalino. I saw from letters from my wife that the Inspector of the Security Police and SD in Munich wanted me to be retransferred to my home country and had taken steps to do that and that I could reckon with return very soon. No marching order arrived from Kiev for me so that for almost the whole September I had to remain at Stalino.
Q. What was your activity in Stalino after the kommando had left, Kommando EK 6?
A. That is the new commander of the Security Police and SD in Stalino, for him I had to build up the SD reporting.
Q. What was your subordination?
A. As far as personnel is concerned, according to my knowledge I was a member of the EK 6. I was merely transferred, I was detailed for work in the SD.
Q. Did you ever return at all to the EK 6?
A. No.
Q. Therefore, your activity with EK 6 was practically over at the end of July or beginning of August, 1942, when the kommando left Stalino, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. In Document Book III-C of the prosecution, on Page 123 of the German, Page 74 of the English document book, that is Document NO-4855, Exhibit 146, that is your affidavit of the 28th July, 1947. In this affidavit it says under Paragraph 3, I quote: "In Einsatzkommando 6 I was until the 15th of October, 1942." That is the end of my quotation. How can you bring this in agreement with the statement you just made that your activity with Einsatzkommando 6 was over at the end of July or beginning of August, 1942?
A. As I have said, I did not move from Stalino with EK 6, but I was not active in the kommando since August, 1942, but as far as personnel is concerned, I was a member officially of Einsatzkommando 6. With this limitation the affidavit of the 28th of July 1947 is correct, or this statement.
Q. Were you an officer while you were a member of EK 6?
A. No.
THE PRESIDENT: Do we understand, witness, that you were physically with the kommando until the early part of September, 1942, and then were carried on the rolls of the kommando without active service until October 15, 1942?
THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Proceed.
A. (continuing) At the beginning of the assignment in June, 1941 I was Unterscharfuchrer, which is corporal. After approximately a year I became a Scharfuehrer, which is sergeant, and a few months later I became SS-Oberscharfuehrer, which, perhaps, is first sergeant. I was promoted to this rank. These are ranks of the NCO rank and correspond to NCO ranks in the American Army. During my assignment in the East I was at no time an officer.
Q. (By Dr. Belzer) Did you, during any period whatsoever, during your activity in EK 6 or with the kommando of this Security Police and SD, hold any executive powers there?
A. No. I was never in charge of a kommando or a subkommando. Never was I entrusted with the leadership task.
THE PRESIDENT: Did an SS N.C.O. carry the same insignia of rank as a Wehrmacht N.C.O.?
THE WITNESS: No, your Honor, the insignia were slightly different. An N.C.O., exactly as in the Army, has a silver line at his collar, and he had one star on a black ground, one pip, but an N.C.O. of the Wehrmacht and Armed Forces did not have that. He had this line without a star or pip. An N.C.O. of the SS had the same shoulder pieces, the same as in the Wehrmacht with a white silver line.
THE PRESIDENT: How about the insignia of the Officers' ranks of the SS, were they similar in appearance to the insignia of the Army officers holding the same rank?
THE WITNESS: Similar, yes. The shoulder pieces were the same, but the insignia on the ground, on the collar, were different from the Wehrmacht ones. The different ranks of the SS could be recognized by the collar of the officer. An Untersturmfuehrer, for instance, had three stars on his black ground; an Obersturnfuehrer had three stars and a silver line, a silver bar; a Hauptsturmfuchrer had three stars and two silver bars and on the shoulder piece he had two buttons, which was exactly as in the Wehrmacht; a Sturmbannfuehrer had four stars, etc.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, Thank you.
Q. (By Dr. Belzer) Did you ever have anything to do with a police interrogation?
A. No, I neither actually supervised an interrogation nor was I ever present in one.
Q. Did you at any period whatsoever have anything to do with executions carried out by the EK 6?
A. No. I have never been present at any execution, and I could therefore not say who ordered it or carried out such executions.
Q. Were you occupied at any time whatsoever with sifting and sorting out of prisoners in camps?
A. No, and I don't know anything of it.
Q. Did you, at any period whatsoever of your activity in the East, have anything to do with recruiting or with forced deportation of Russian workers to Germany?
A. Recruiting and deportation? No. I merely reported about transports of workers.
DR. BELZER: Your Honor, I think this would be the moment to have our recess before I begin with a new chapter.
DR. HOFFMANN: Defense Counsel Hoffmann for the Defendant Nosske. Your Honor, I should like the Defendant Nosske to be excused this afternoon and tomorrow - this afternoon and tomorrow afternoon in ordered in order for me to prepare his document book with him.
THE PRESIDENT: The Defendant Nosske will be excused from attendance in court this afternoon and tomorrow, Thursday afternoon.
The Tribunal will be in recess until 1:45.
( A recess was taken until 1345 hours.)
(The hearing reconvened at 1400 hours, 7 January 1948.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session
THE PRESIDENT: Proceed, Dr. Belzer.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) BY DR. BELZER:
Q. Witness, theprosecution , in support of their charges against you, as far as your activity in Einsatzkommando 6 is concerned, has referred to three documents, Document No. 3240 in Document Book II C, page 65 of the German text, page 60 of the English text, Exhibit 80. Secondly, it has had reference to Document No. 3405 in Book IIA, page 61 of the German, page 67 of the English, Exhibit Number 42; and finally, to Document No. 3340, in Document Book I, on page 119 of the German text and page 86 of the English text. This is Exhibit Number 22. When the prosecution submitted these documents, it had the following to say, and I quote, "All these documents refer to the executions carried out by Einsatzkommando 6 during the time that Graf was a member of it." Can you say anything about these documents?
A. I can, first of all, only repeat that I did know of the carrying out of executions, but that I had no knowledge of details about how they were carried out. Whether, when and where the executions mentioned in these and other documents were carried out, I do not know. The reports were not made out by me, and I did not see them until I got here to Nurnberg. I was in no way concerned with matters dealing with the executive measures.
Q. Witness, you have read through all the prosecution documents?
A. Yes.
Q. And in other situation reports, too, I have read of executions which were carried out by the Einsatzkommando 6. Does your statement which you just made also refer to those situation reports?
A. Yes, likewise.
Q. Will you now briefly tell the Tribunal how you were finally relieved from the Eastern assignment?
A. The office of the commander of the security police and SD in Stalino was set up in August 1942, as far as I remember. As I said before, I had been transferred to this agency in order to build up the Department III, which is the information service. In the beginning the commander had very few officers. New subcommandos had to be set up. Because of this great lack of officers, noncommissioned officers were given the leadership of the subcommandos. Around the end of September 1942 I was to take over a subcommando, too. I rejected this, saying that I had only been ordered to set up Department III, that I had been furnished by the group for this purpose and I was onlya man who dealt with SD reports. Because of refusal to obey an order, a trasncript was immediately taken down and I was arrested. After eight days I was released from this custody; in the middle of October 1942 I was ordered to repor t to Kiev where a disciplinary proceeding was to be started against me. After long delay General Thomas decided that no disciplinary proceeding was to be started against me, and I was returned to Germany.
Q. Thus from Kiev you neither went to Stalino nor to Rostov to return to the Einsatzkommando 6 ?
A. No. After this stay in Kiev I rturned directly to Germany.
Q. While travelling from Stalino to Kiev did you stop in Rostov?
A. Yes, my orders read Stalino, Rostov, Kiev. I was to report to my unit, Einsatzkommando 6, in Rostov before leaving.
Q. Did you speak to the commando leader in Rostov?
A. No. I was told that the commanding officer was in Kiev.
Q. Who was the commanding officer of Einsatzkommando 6 at that time?
A. The co-defendant Biberstein.
Q. Were you not in Rostov on another occasion?
A. No. I was in Rostov only once.
Q. Did you have any special mission to carry out in Rostov?
A. No. During my trip to Rostov I had already been relieved because I disobeyed the order. I undertook the trip to Rostov in the accompaniment of the two responsible Ukrainian physicians of the civilian hospital in Stalino, who, because of a threatening epidemic of diphtheria, were in need of diphtheria serum. I accompanied these two physicians to the director of the bacteriological institute in Rostov where the physicians , on the basis of a requisition slip , which I obtained for them, were able to obtain a sufficient amount of vaccine.
Q. Did you voluntarily offer your aid to these two Ukrainian physicians, or did you have an order to do so?
A. I offered this assistance voluntarily. Of course, I had to notify my commanding officer to the effect that I wanted to help them.
Q. That was then your last activity in the assignment in the East in Russia?
A. Yes.
Q. I cannot leave the unsavory field of Russia without asking you a specific question. You need not answer this question.
THE PRESIDENT: What kind of a question is it, if it isn't to be answered.
DR. BELZER: I think that after I have asked the question, the Tribunal will understand why I made this preliminary remark.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, we are all in expectation. BY DR. BELZER:
Q. Witness, do you know anything about a nickname which you had in the Einsatzkommando?
A. Yes.
Q. What was this nickname, and how do you explain that you were given this nickname?
A. I was named "the paper soldier", perhaps because I had more to do with paper and files than with military matters.
DR. BELZER: Thank you. BY DR. BELZER:
Q. Then we shall return back home. When did you get back home?
A. About the middle of November 1942.
Q. What was your activity back home?
A. After a short furlough I took over the leadership of the SD office in Kempten as a commissar. On the 15th of November 1944 I was given the commissar leadership of the SD office in Kaufbeuren. In Kempten, as well as in Kaufbeuren, I was occupied purely with SD intelligence service.