AI do not know of any written or oral announcement instructing the DAF in any way in connection with the war of aggression.
QWas the German Labor Front in war entrusted with the caring of foreign workers?
AThe German Labor Front, as far as I can recall, as early as 1939 voluntarily took over the care of foreign workers.
QWitness, we are here interested in the question of those foreign workers who camt to Germany during the war and particularly those who came compulsorily.
AThe German Labor Front during the war took over the care of all foreign workers.
QWhat was the task of the DAF?
AThe task was, in the first place, that the DAF supPorted the work of the factory managers who, according to law, had to care for their workers. Furthermore, through its own measures, tried to lighten the task of the factory manager.
QDid the Labor Front fulfill this duty?
AThe conditions during the mar were particularly difficult, especially in those districts which were the targets of enemy bombers but I can explain that the German Labor Front did everything humanly possible to care for those workers.
QIn the year 1945 and 1944, during the severe air raids on the Rhur, you mere employed there, especially by the Labor Front, in order to carry out the difficult special-care measures; is that correct?
AAbout in July 1943, I received the assignment to go to the Ruhr myself so that in spite of the air raids, the production of industrial workers would be maintained for this is purpose--I was to support the competent local agencies.
QFron this period, do you know of conditions of the Krupp firm in Essen?
A I do not know the details of the factory conditions at Krupp's but I can give information about the essential things since, I, myself, visited the Krupp concerns in part two or three times during this period.
QWhat was done there in the field of social care, on the whole?
A.On the whole, there were two things that had to be taken care of, food and lodging of the workers; since Krupp as well as the City of Essen were repeatedly attacked by bombers with serious damage, this concern was working under extraordinaril difficult conditions. It was often necessary through institutions beyond the concern; that is, the DAF, the Provisional Economic Office and such, to help the concerns.
QA report of Dr. Jaeger was shown you in the Commission a document D-288, and mistreatment of workers is indicated there. Does this report correspond to the facts as you found them?
APersonally, of course, I cannot investigate to what extent this report of Dr. Jaeger corresponda to the facts. On the basis of my own experience, however I had the impression that in many points things were presented with some exaggeration certainly by Dr. Jaeger, with the good intention of influencing the agencies which were to help him. I recall that Dr. Jaeger once said that the foreign workers received only a thousand calories. I can say one thing. Even during the war in Germany, even for normal consumers there was no ration of only a thousand calories a day.
QCan the conditions which Dr. Jaeger describes of a few camps be extended to all the camps of the Krupp firm?
ADr. Jaeger, as far as I recall, describes two camps and describes only individual occurances in those camps. Conditions were difficult at Krupp's. These cases cannot be applies to all camps. If Dr. Jaeger points out that in one barracks in prticular it rained in for weeks, I can only say that in the City of Essen it rained for weeks and into thousands of houses and the people were happy there; people were lucky who had any shelter at all even if the rein bothered them a little.
QIn the Commission, other documents were shown to you regarding the treatment of the workers at Krupp's. Do these give an approximate picture of conditions throughout the Reich?
AI have the following to say to that. In the Reich we had tens of thousands of medium-sized and large concerns. The conditions found in Essen, even if they are true, cannot be considered in general as a norm for the treatment of foreign workers in Germany.
Q. Were security measures taken so that no unsuitable elements would be cared for by the German Labor Front?
A.The German Labor Front from the Reich level as well as the Gau level and in the Kreis level, had an office that was the Office Labor Commitment which dealt exclusively with these questions of foreigners. All orders direct to the agencies and to the concerns by this office repeatedly deal in some form with the necessity for correct and just treatment for reasons of humanity as well as for reasons of production. I would like to add something. To prevent men who had in any wasy misused their powers, who should not come into contact any more with the foreign workers, this Office Labor Commitment had a so-called card index of the camp, to warn camp leaders, which were issued to the Kreises and Gaus. This list contained the names of all men who had misused their powers. It also listed the punishment which they had received for doing so and it said that they were no longer to be used as camp leaders.
Q.And were orders issued, ordering correct treatment and, for example, prohibiting punishment by beating? Does this not show that such orders were necessary and mistreatments general?
A.In every organization there are social elements. I do not deny that here and there a functionary of the German Labor Front misused his powers. This fact was the occasion for such an order. On the other hand, this order is to be considered a collection of all the many decrees which had been issued up to that time. One can say the following about that: In every cultured state there are laws prohibiting murder, robbery and so forth.
THE PRESIDENT:Is it necessary to go into all these details?
DR. SERVATIUS:Mr. President, it is only because this question was repeatedly asked the witness in the Commission. That is why I wanted to present it to the Court once. I do not see what great interest the prosecution has in this question but it repeated it many times. Then I shall go on to the next question.
BY DR. SERVATIUS:
Q.What happened to the guards supervising and executing the orders about social care?
A.Aside from the Office Labor Commitment which was responsible for the care of these workers, which I have already mentioned, D.r Ley, within the German Labor Front, set up a so-called camp inspectorate which was under the direction of a DAF functionary and had the task outside the jurisdiction of the Labor Commitment Office to inspect the camps of foreigners and to maintain order if there was any disorder. This arrangement served the tactic purpose of preventing other organs aside from the DAF in dealing with this question.
Q. Were you yourself able to observe anything about the inhumane treat-
ment of workers, or were any such mistreatments reported to you? You travelled, around to the different places. What was your total impression?
A.These things were not reported directly to me since I was not the competent office chief for these matters, but as deputy for the German factori I was in hundreds of factories and camps. I must say that aside from individual cases, things were in order there.
Dr. SERVATIUS: Mr. President, I have no more questions to put to this witness and I have examined all my witnesses.
THE PRESIDENT:The Tribunal will adjourn.
(A recess was taken)
CROSS EXAMINATION BY LT. COL. GRIFFITH JONES:
Q.Witness, I want to ask you one question on the expert staff Officers of the Gau, Kreis, and Ortsgruppenleiters. Do they come under their respective Hoheitstraegers on the matters of discipline? Did you hear that question?
A.Yes, I did. Each of the functionaries of the German Labor Front had to obey the orders of his immediate superior as well as discipline. I personally was out side the DAF. I was subordinate to the leader of the German Labor Front. He was the only one who could call me in the office or remove me from office.
Q.The expert, for instance the DAF representative, on the Gau Staff, received his professional technical instructions from his DAF superior, is that correct? Is it not?
A.I personally, as well as the others, received the directions and instructions from the superiors.
Q.I am sure you can answer my question yes or no. The point I am putting is this. Although you received your professional or expert instruction from your DAF superior, you were also subordinate, were you not, to the Hoheitstraeger of your staff in all matters on discipline and matters connected with the party?
A. If anyone was a political leader, he of course was subordinate to the party discipline, and he only concerned himself with those things which belonged to his sphere of activity.
Q.One question about the political leaders of the DAF. A political leader in the DAF, was he sworn in as a political leader in the same way as any other political leader was sworn in?
A.A political leader of the DAF took his oath to the Fuehrer.
Q.Did he also receive a special certificate or identity card which was issued to all other political leaders?
A.Yes, he did, he received a certificate stating his rank.
LT. COL. GRIFFITH JONES:This witness was cross-examined before the commission, and I would like to draw the Tribunal's attention to one new document which was not put to him, and two others which deal with the DAF particularly. The first one is a new document, D-338, which will be handed up to the Tribunal. It is a report of the conditions in the sick bay hut in one of the Krupp Camps. My purpose in putting it in is that it is addressed to the KVD and the Gauamstsleiter Doctor Heinz.
Q.Witness, is the KVD the association of Doctors and Physicians?
A.That is an Association of physicians - a panel - but the organization for the physicians was the Aerstebund League of Physicians.
Q.It is an association of doctors. Is theGauamstsleiter, Doctor Heinz, would you presume from that document, that he was an expert nonpolitical political leiter on the Gau staff concerned with medical matters?
A.The position that he held is not noted here, but I assume it was the some person, yes.
LT. COL.GRIFFITH_JONES: My Lord, the Tribunal will find --
THE PRESIDENT:What is the number?
LT. COL GRIFFITH JONES:I beg your pardon - GB-547. The next document will be found on page 19 of the Tribunal document book. It is a document which has been put in and I am not certain whether or not it was read to the Tribunal, and I would particularly refer to the penultimate paragraph on the first page which is of considerable importance in connection with the DAF.
It is a report by one of the Krupp officers. It is an original German document and it refers to a discussion which that gentleman had with three members of the DAF in connection with the food which he was trying to get for the starving Russian Prisoners of War and Russian laborers.
The Tribunal, I know, will stop me if it is familiar with the Document, but perhpas I may be allowed to read the one paragraph describing that point
THE PRESIDENT:The Document has been read.
LT COL GRIFFITH JONES:I would like to draw the attention of the Tribunal to the decree for Ensuring the Discipline and Output of Foreign workers, which had been passed by the DAF, it will be found on pages nine and ten - Document D-226 -US 697, perhaps I might ask the witness one question on this. BY LT COL GRIFFITH JONES:
Q.Witness, will you look at that document and the covering letter, which is dated November 10, 1944. Is this letter signed by yourself ?
A.Yes.
Q.On page 10, it will be seen that it is a covering letter, enclosing a decree on the employment of foreign labor, in which it says :"It is of particular importance that not only the present good out put should be secured, but also that further working reserves should be freed, which, without doubt, can still be obtained from these millions of foreign workers.
It then goes on to say in paragraph 2 :"All men and women of the NSDAP, its subsidiaries and affiliated bodies in the works, will, in accordance with instructions from the Kreisleiters be warned by their Ortsgruppen leaders, and be put under obligation."
My Lord, the Document further states that the close cooperation of the Party, the State and Industry, with departments of the Secret Police is absolutely necessary for this purpose.
I now read the last three lines of paragraph 2-b :"Party members, both men and women, and members of Party organization and affiliated bodies must be expected more than ever before, to conduct themselves in an examplary manner."
At the bottom of the page will be seen :"The Gau Trustee of the DAF will issue detailed instructions in cooperation with the Gau Propaganda leader an the lader of the Gau department for Social Questions."
In the last paragraph it will be seen that there is further evidence of cooperation between the political leaders, the Kreisleiters and the Gestapo.
I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: If there are who further questions, the witness may retire.
Dr. Servatius, you may make such comments as you wish on your documents
DR. SERVATIUS:Mr. President, I do not have the documents at hand and they have not been translated; therefore, they cannot be presented to the Tribunal. I would suggest that first of all the witnesses be examined and then the Documents will be ready and I will submit them at that time.
THE PRESIDENT:We have the books ourselves.
DR. SERVATIUS:It is not only the Document books that we are concerned with, but the affidavits are not at hand. I do not have them myself and they have not been translated. That is the way I interpreted the decision and I shall take care of the matter in the morning.
THE PRESIDENT:Would it be convenient to submit some of these documents in these two document books now and leave the affidavits until later on ?
DR. SERVATIUS:I do not have the affidavits with me and I have not prepared myself on this matter. It would not be an orderly presentation and I should prefer to submit them some other time.
THE PRESIDENT:Then, the Tribunal will go on to the evidence for the next organization.
DR. SERVATIUS:Mr. President, when shall I sumbit this matter ? After the evidence for the next organization, or after all witnesses have been heard ?
THE PRESIDENT:After the next one, I should tink.
DR. SERVATIUS:Very well.
THE PRESIDENT:What is the next organization we will deal with ?
DR. MERKEL:On behalf of the Secret State Police - the Gestapo.
Mr. President, may it please the Tribunal, first of all I should like to submit my two document books, one containing numbers one to thirty and the other containing thirty one to sixty two.
Mr. President, shall I confine my point of view to the individual documents now or after the witness is heard ?
THE PRESIDENT: When it is convenient to you.
DR. MERKEL:I should prefer to do it after the witness has been heard.
THE PRESIDENT:Very well.
DR. MERKEL:First of all, I would like to submit a list of the thirteen witnesses, who have been heard before the Commission. Furthermore, I should like to submit a German copy of the thirteen transcripts. I should like to submit this material as evidence and the arguments, which I will present myself, in connection with the examination of the witness.
Finally I should like to submit a list of the names and a summary of the affidavits, given in the Commission, numbered one to eighty five, which I should like to offer in evidence.
The three transcripts of the Commission sessions, which were discussed I shall submit as soon as I have them.
Then, finally, I have perhaps fifteen hundred affidavits, which I would like to submit in one summarizing affidavit, but that summary has not yet been completed. For this reason, I should like to ask that I be permitted to submit this after the witness has been heard.
With the permission of the Tribunal, I should like to call the witness, Dr. Best.
THE PRESIDENT:Bring on the witness.
DR. KARL RUDOLF WERNERBEST, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows : BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q.Will you state your full name ?
A.Dr. Karl Rudolf Werner Best.
Q.Will you repeat this oath after me ? I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. MERKEL:
QMr. Witness, please tell us briefly your professional autobiography.
AI am a jurist and a professional civil servant. Beginning with 1929 I was a judge, and since 1933 I have been an administrative official, and since 1942 I have been a diplomat.
QWhen and how did you join the Gestapo?
AFrom 1 January onward, as a Oberregierungsrat and Amtsleiter for administration and law, I was active in the Gestapo in Berlin. Beginning with 1936 in the Reich Ministry for the Interior and in the Special Department of the Security Police, up until 1940. Beginning with 1940 and until 1942 I was the administrative official, and since 1942 I have been Reich Plenipotentiary in Denmark.
QWas the Gestapo a union of people?
ANo.
QWhat was the Gestapo?
AThe Gestapo was a number or multiplicity of state offices.
QHowever, the Prosecution seems to consider the Gestapo as a union of people joined together voluntarily in order to realize certain aims.
Witness, please pause between question and answer.
AAn organization has members. The official of the Secret State Police were officials hired by the state, and they occupied a public position. An organization sets its own aims, but the offices of the Secret State Police received their tasks from the state and from the state leadership, which put to them.
QDid the Gestapo belong to the NSDAP or to any other National Socialist organization?
ANo, the offices of the Secret State Police were purely and simply state ofices.
QWitness, please speak a little more slowly. Otherwise, the interpreters can not keep up.
AVery well.
QIn the year 1933, did a general state police arise in the entire German territory?
ANo. In the various states political police systems arose which the state government concerned set up.
QWere these offices completely new? Were they a novel idea?
ANo, they arose out of the political police systems that already existed through re-organization.
QIn what way did this take place?
AThrough the directives or decrees of the state governments concerned
QFor what reasons were these new offices and agencies created by the state governments?
AOf my own personal experience I can state that in the state of Hesse a state police system was created. The authority of the police had been shaken by the incidents that took place before 1933, and a new form of politic police was to be strengthened, and especially as it applied to members of the National Socialist movement. I assume that this reason existed and played a part in other German states as well.
QDid these new agencies receive new tasks?
ANo. No, they received the same tasks which the political police had had in the past,
QWhat tasks were they? Can you enumerate them?
AOn one hand, prosecution of acts that violated the criminal law where there was a political motive, and on the other hand, the police prevention of such acts and deeds.
QWhat do you mean by "preventive measures" by the police?
APreventive measures by the police are such as applied to individual perpetrators or to groups of perpetrators with the view that these groups or individuals concerned would not undertake criminal actions.
QWhen and how did Himmler become political police chief of the Go man state. -- Polizeikommandeur?
ABetween March of 1933 and March of 1934 Himmler gradually brought about an agreement with the governments of the various German states on his position as Polizeikommandeur of each individual state in Germany.
QDid Himmler come from the police or from the police system as such?
A No, he had never had anything to do with the police, and as far as political training of thoughts and methods of work was concerned, he never quite worked his way into that.
QWere the agencies and the officials of the various police systems responsible for Hitler's coming to power?
ANo, the appointment of Hitler was made known to them as a fait accompli.
QWhen and how were the political police systems of the various German states unified into a uniform German Secret State Police?
AAfter the appointment of Himmler as Chief of the German police in the Reich Ministry of the Interior. That was in the year 1936. By several directives and decrees issued by the Reich Ministry of the Interior, the political police systems of the various German states were unified in a uniform Secret State Police.
QWhere in the German Reich did the NSDAP establish a political German police, or was this ever done?
ANo, nowhere was this ever done.
QWas there anywhere an organization of the Party that was taken over by the state as a political police system?
ANo, nowhere.
QWere the political police systems of the German states taken over by Party members in the year 1933?
ANo, those officials who had been in office prior to that time remained, and only a few officials were taken on new at that time.
QWere the leading officials members of the Party? Were they Party people?
AThat varied in the various states. In part there were officials who had belonged to entirely different parties.
QCan you give us an example along this line?
AThere are several well known examples. It is well known that Mr. Diehls, the leader of the Prussian Socket State Police, had had different political beliefs in the past.
The closest collaborators of Himmler and Heydrich from Munich, who together with him were taken to Berlin -- such as Mueller, the later head of Amt IV; Huber, Fresch, Beck -- all of those men in the past had been follower of the Bavarian Peoples' Party, and the leader of my small Hessen police office was a former Democrat and Freemason.
He was a man whom I considered suitable and proper for this post.
QWhy did these officials remain in their police positions under National Socialist rule?
AFor a German official it was a matter of course to keep on serving the state, even though the government was changed. -- to serve the state as long as he is in a position to do so.
QWere these officials removed and replaced with National Socialists later on?
ANo, these gentlemen had much success and achieved good positions.
QWhat was the further political construction of the political police in the years that followed?
A AOfficials from various police agencies were called to the offices of the Political Police, and they were transferred to these offices. In the meantime new candidates came in and were trained to be officials according to these rules that applied.
QWere people taken over from the Party, from the SS, and the SA?
AOnly in relatively small measure, for service in those police agencies paid very little in wages and therefore it was not desirable.
QDid the officials volunteer to enter the political Police?
AThe officials were transferred from agency to agency and from office to office.
QDid the officials have to comply with these transfers?
AYes, according to civil service laws, they were obligated to do so.
QWhat would have been the consequence if they had refused?
AA disciplinary measure, with the result that they would have been dismissed from office, and they would have lost their seniority rights and their rights to a pension.
QDo you know of any such refusal?
ANo, I do not know of any.
Q Was the Political police completely separate from the general administrative set-up of the state?
ANo, on all levels there were Kreisfuehrers, the leaders of the state police agencies, with the political experts of the government; inspectors of the security police were personally responsible to the presidents of the states and had to comply with their directives.
QAside from the agencies of the Gestapo, did other agencies have a political activity in the political police system?
AYes, the Kreis and Orts police systems had police activity and exercised it.
QIn what way?
AThe Kreis and Orts police systems, the Landraete, the special gendarmerie, and the administrative systems, either on the basis of announcements that came in to them were activated that way, or they carried out the orders of the competent state police.
Q What part in the entire political police system did the Kreis and Orts police agencies have?
AAs far as quantitative is concerned, the Kreis and Ort police systems did the major part, of the state police cases and dealt with them. The state police offices sent out their men in special cases such as cases of treason and high treason.
QDid the Kreis and Orts police agencies receive the general decrees that went out from the secret police?
AYes, they received these decrees and directives if it wasn't prohibited in special cases on specialrequest.
QAccording to what view did the agencies of the political police prosecute certain crimes?
AAlmost without exception on the basis of reports which came in from private persons or other agencies outside of the police, reports which were addressed to them.
QAnd in what lines did this apply?
AThese reports applied to all spheres which might have interested the political police. The police, therefore, were not in a position to investigate these cases and to check whether they actually existed, and a message service was organized where groups were suspected of activities such as the illegal Communist party or in cases of espionage. In cases like that, through agents of through similar means they tried to find these groups and to clarify the matters.
QIf you did not have your own message service, how did arrests and other measures against people come about for political statements which they had made?
AIt is not the case, as it often has been, and stillis asserted, that the Gestapo was a not of spies and information agencies which kept track of the entire people. With a few officials who were always busy, anything like that could not be carried on. Such single reports dealing with unsuitable political statements come to the police. Reports like that were not locked for, were not sought after, for with 90% of the cases you couldn't do anything to start with, anyway.
Q Please speak a little slower. Was there a special class of Gestapo officials which differentiated itself completely from the other classes of Gestapo officials?
ANo. The officials of the secret police belonged to the same categories as the corresponding officials of other police systems.
QWhat categories of officials were there in the Gestapo?
AFirst of all, we are to differentiate quite distinctly between administrative officials and executive officials.
QHow did these branches differ?
AThey may be differentiated through their tasks, through their legal status, and through their training.
QTo what extent did the legal status differ?
AThe administrative officials were subordinate to the Reich civil service laws. But for executive officials there was a special branch in the police law books.
QHow did they differ in training?
AThe administative officials were trained according to their career as higher or lower or medium administrative officials, according to the procedure set up in the internal administrative agencies -- that is, the police praesidium, and so forth. The executive officials, however, were trained in the so-called "Fuehrerschule", of the security police and in the agencies of the secret state police and the criminal police.
QWhich tasks did the administrative officials in the Gestapo have?
AThe same tasks as may be found in all other administrative agencies all other police agencies. That is, dealing with personnel records, with internal matters, and economic tasks, and on the other hand, the dealing with substantive laws such as passport laws or the laws dealing with foreigners.
QDid the administrative officials look after and control the other officials?
ANo. If there wasn't an administrative official to keep track of and look after them, and if he wasn't designated to do that, as far as carrying out of sentences, they had no connection with that.
QThrough other ways they could receive knowledge about the executive tasks?
A No. That was almost impossible, for each official was obligated to keep the matters that he concerned himself with secret, which was a customs maxim of the police, that one did not discuss the individual cases that were before one.
QDid the administrative officials join the Gestapo voluntarily?
ANo. Administrative officials were transferred from the other internal administrative or from other police agencies.
QDid all executive officials from the Gestapo carry out the same activities?
ANo. Each carried out his tasks to which he had been assigned.
QThat departments were there?
AOutside of the political police, in the smaller sense, there was the border police, later the defensive part of the military Abwe hr, and the border members were incorporated into the Gestapo so that they became part of it later on.
QThe special tasks of the various departments, were they put to the Gestapo after 1933 for the first time?
ANo. Even before 1933 they existed. They were carried out by the same officials who were later on taken over into the Gestapo, and the officials who had beenactive in the so-called Central police agencies.
QYou mentioned the Abwehr police as a part of the Gestapo. That were the tasks of the Abwehr police?
AThe criminal investigation of treason cases, and all of these cases, without exception, were given over to the courts for sentencing
QAnd you mentioned the border police, also. That were its tasks?
AThe border police were active at the border, checking passports. They checked the so-called small border traffic. They gave legal assistance to neighboring foreign police, supervised the deporting of people, the combatting of narcoti cs, international narcotic traffic, and prosecuted criminals at the border.
QWhat were the tasks of the so-called military counter-intelligence, which was a part of the Gestapo?
A As I have already said, the defensive part of the military counter-
intelligence which was assigned to the Gestapo during the war had the task of checking and clarifying the intelligence systems which were applied agains Germany and making them harmless through their work.
QA further part of the Gestapo was the so-called "Zollgrenzschutz" (Border and Custom Protection). What were its tasks?
AThe Customs and Border Police, before and after it was assigned and incorporated into the Gestapo, had the task of watching the so-called "green border", that is, beyond the border, and those border towns and passes where no border police was stationed. In cases like that it carried out the tasks of the border police.