"Because, gentlemen, I have had enough of those demonstrations.
They don't harm the Jews, but me, who is the last authority for coordinating the Germaneconomy. If today a Jewish shop is destroyed, if goods are thrown into the street, the insurance company will pay for the damages which the Jew does not even have, and furthermore, goods of the consumer, goods belonging to the people, are destroyed. If, in the future, demonstrations which are necessary occur, then I pray that they be directed so as not to hurt us". Am I correct ?
AYes, quite correct.
QSkipping two or three paragraphs, I come to this -
ABut the supplement has been omitted.
QWell, you can supplement it any way you want to.
A "And I wish to have these things directed in such a way that we will not be harming ourselves. If a Jewish store is evacuated and fired, the insurance will cover the damage and the products which I need will be destroyed, but in a case like that I might as well burn the row materials as they come in".
QThat's right. You read any part of it that you want to as we go along, in addition to what I read. "I am not going to tolerate a situation in which the insurance companies are the ones to suffer. Under the authority vested in me, I shall issue a decree and I am, of course, requesting the support of the competent government agencies so that everything shall be procassed through the right channels and the insurance companies will not be the ones who suffer. "It may be so that these insurance companies may have insurance in foreign countries. If that is the case, foreign bills of exchange would be available, which I would not want to lose. That shall have to be checkes. For that reason, I have asked Mr.Hilgard of the insurance companies to attend, since he is best qualified to tell us to what extent the insurance companies are protected against damage by having taken out insurance with other companies.
I would not want to miss tis under any circumstances". Is that correct ?
AThat is absolutely correct.
Q "I should not want to leave any doubt, gentlemen, as to the aim of today's meeting. We have not come together merely to talk again, but to make decisions, and I implere the competend agencies to take all measures for the elimination of the Jew from German economy and to submit them to me as far as is necessary."
A That is correct. Q I then skip a considerable portion, unless there is more that you wish to put in, and come to this statement:
" The Trustee of the State will estimate the value of the property and decide what amount the Jew shall receive. Naturally, this amount is to be seht as low as possible. The representative of the State shall then turn the establishment over to the Aryan proprietor, that is, the property shall be sold according to its real value.
" There begin the difficulties. It is easily understood that strong attempts will be made to get all these stores to Party members and to let them have some kind of compensation. I have witnessed terrible things in the past; little chauffeurs of Gauleiters have profited so much by these transactions that they have new about half a million. You gentlemen know it. Is that correct?" And they assented. A Yes, I said that. Q Do you care to read anything further in connection with that? A Perhaps only the next sentence:
"These is, if any individual was attempting to profit by Jewish possessions -- is that what you meant? A By the aryanization. Q I will quote another portion:
" In other words, an ordinary business transaction is to be sought, one merchant selling, the other one buying a business. If there are Party members among the contenders, they are to be preferred, that is, if they have the same qualifications. First shall come the one who has had the most damage; secondly, select should be according to ranks of Party membership."
I skip a line or two:
" This Party member should have a chance to buy the store for as cheap a price as possible.
In such a case, the State will not receive the full price, but only the amount the Jew received." Is that correct? A Just a moment, please, I believe we skipped something. Q Yes, we did. If you want to put it in, you may read it. A No, I might just say briefly, regarding the substance, I sai what you have already said, that if there is any consideration to be given, the Party member is to be preferred, first of all the one who had been hurt previously in that his business concessions had been taken away from him just because he had been a Party member, and then follows the paragraph which you read an which is correct as it was read. Q Now, you then take up at considerable length the method by which you shall aryanize Jewish stores, is that right? A Yes. Q And then you take up the aryanization of Jewish factories. A Yes. Q You take up the smaller factories first. A yes. Q Have you found the place where you take up the factories? A Yes, I have found it. Q Quoting:
" As for the smaller and medium ones, two things shall have to be made clear; First, which factories do I not need at all, which are the ones, where production could be suspended. Could they not he put to another use? If not, the factories will be razed immediately.
"Second, in case the factory should be needed, it will be turned over to Aryans in the same manner as the stores." That is correct, is it? A Yes. Q Do you care to say any more on that subject? A No, these should be the basic reasons for the laws. Q Now, I call your attention to the paragraph second from that, starting, "Take now the larger factories," Do you find tha THE PRESIDENT:
Just a minute, Mr. Jackson, the Russian trans-
lation is not coming through. All right, go on. BY MR JACKSON: Q Dealing with the larger factories, and so on, do you not say the solution is very simple, that the factory can he compensated in the same manner as in the sale of stores and factories, that is, at a rate whichwe shall determine, and the trustees shall take over the Jews interest, as well as his shares, which in turn may he sold or transferred to the State, which will then dispose of them to the Reich? A That means any one who has any interest in the factories wil receive reparation, which will be determinded by us, and that is true. Q And the reparation will be turned over to the State trustees. will it not? A True, to the State trustees. The matter was simple to follow, The Jews received credit, and received a crefit slip, and the matter was to be handled through the trustees. Q Well, we will come down to where you deal with the foreign Jews, do you recall that? A Yes. Q At that point a representative of the foreign office claimed a right to participate on behalf of the Foreign Minister, is that right? A Yes. Q Well, now, we will pass down to the point of the conversation between yourself and Heydrich. A Just a moment, please. Part of the minutes, I may have them. Yes, I found the place where Heydrich is mentioned for the first time. Q You inquired how many synagogues were actually burned, and Heydrich replied," Altogether there werde 101 synagogues destroy by fire, 76 synagogues demolished, and 7500 stores ruined in the Reich. " Have I Quoted that correctly? A Yes. Q Well, then Mr. Goebbels interposed, " I am of the opinion that it is our chance to dissolving the synagogues, and then you have a discussion about the divvelving the synagogues, did you n* A Through Dr. Goebbels, yes, and the explanation of Dr. Goebbels that is to say.
Q Then Dr. Goebbels raised the question of Jews travelling on railway trains? A Yes. Q And let me see if I quote the dialogue between you and Dr. Goebbels correctly on that subject. That Dr. Goebbels said, "Furthermore, I advocate that Jews be eliminated from all positions in public life in which they may prove to be provocation It is still possible today that a Jew shares a compartment in a sleeping car with a German; therefore, we nee a decree by the Reich Ministry for Communications stating that separate compartments for Jews shall be available. In cases where compartments a filled up, Jews can not claim a seat. They shall be given separa compartments only after all Germans have secured seats. They shall not mix with the Germans, and if there is no more room, they shall have to stand in the corridor. " Is that right? A Yes, that is correct. Q "Goring: In that case I think it would make more sense to give them separate compartments. Goebbels: Not if the train is over-crowded. Goering: Just a moment. There will be only one Jewish coach. If that is filled up the other Jews will have to stay at home. Goebbels: Suppose though there won't be many Jews going on an express train to Munich. Suppose there willbe two Jews in a train, and the other compartments would be over-crowded thesetwo Jews would then have a compartment all by themselves therefore, Jews may claim a seat only after all Germans have secured a seat. Goering: I would gibe the Jews one coach, or one compartment, and should a case like you mentioned arise, and the train be over-crowded, believe me, we won't need a law. We will kick him out, and he will have to sit alone in the toilet allthe way." Is that correct? A Yes.I had become a little vervous when Goebbels had had important matters that were brought forward in certain particulars and in this connection I gave out no decrees, or no laws. Of cou today, it is in their right very pleasant for the prosecution to present it, but I wish to state that it was a very lively sessioin which Goebbels made demand which were as I say in a radical scope, and in a radical criminal scope, and in accordance with my demeanor I expressed myself.
Q Then Goebbels would be radical at this stage when he said that Jews should stand in the corridors, and you said that they would have to sit in the toilet. That is the way you say it? A No, that is not so. It is only pictured that way. I said that they should have a special compartment, and when Goebbels still was not satisfied, and made a further explanation in detail I finally told him, " I do not need to require for some one to sit in the toilet, but that some one might as well sit in the toilet, and that these utterances had no worldly significance." Q Let's go down to where Goebbels brings up the subject of the German.
Forests.
AJust a moment, please, Yes. It became a state where Goebbels wished a decree which would prevent Jews to go to German Recreational Centres, and I answered to that, "Established some of their own for them," and then he said, "It would have to be considered whether we should turn a few German resorts over to them, to some of their own, but not the finest and the best, and we can not say that for the Jews for their recreation, also to put resorts at their disposal," and it was to be considered, if possible, to prohibit Jews from entering German Forests, because many Jews were taking walks in the Grunewald in Berlin, and that was not a Provocation. Then several others interposed, and I rather drastically answered, "Then it would be better to put a certain part of the forest at the disposal of the Jews, because you want them out of the rest of the forest, "and I made the remark which seems to be of interest at this point.
QLet's have that remark. Is it not correct, you did state, "We will give the Jews a certain part of the forest, and the Alpers shall take care of it with the forest animals that look damm much like Jews - - the Elk has such a crooked nose, get them also to become acclimated." Is that what you said"?
AYes, I said it, and that is to be understood as coming from the whole feeling of the men at this meeting, and Goebbels again said he considered this demeanor provoking, and if I may say so, it was provoking to me, and that he wished to leave the economic matters on the side, and rather bring in those secondary matters.
QNow, you come to the point where you ask Mr. Hilgard from the Insurance Company to come in. Do you find that?
AYes.
QThen you made a statement to Mr. Hilgard when he appeared." The following is our case. Because of the justified anger of the people against the Jews, the Reich has suffered a certain amount of damage. Windows were broken, goods were damaged, and people hurt; synagogues burned, and soforth. I suppose that Jews, many of them are also insured against damage committed by public disorder. Hilgard: Yes. Goering if that is so the following situation arises. The people in their justified anger meant to harm the -
Jews, but these German insurance companies are to compensate the Jews for the damage.
This situation is simple enough. I only have to issue a decree to that effect, that damage resulting from these risks shall not have to be paid by the insurance company." Is that what you said?
AYes, I said all of that.
QHilgard then outlines three kinds of insurance, and pointed out to you that at least as to plate glass insurance, the majority of the victims who were the owners of the buildings were Aryans, and that the Jews had usually been the renter, is that right?
AYes, those are all the particulars.
A Yes, those are the particulars.
QAnd Hilgard said: "May I draw your attention to the following facts: Glass for the shop windows is not being manufactured by the Bohemian but by the Belgian glass industry. In my estimation the approximate money value to which these damages amount is six million. That includes the broken glass, glass which we shall have to replace mainly to Aryans because They have insurance policies."
THE PRESIDENT:Mr. Justice Jackson, before you pass from that page, in the third paragraph, just for the sake of accuracy, it appears that the name "Mr. Hilgard" is wrongly placed, does it not, because he both seems to put the question and answer it.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON:Well, I think that is -
THE PRESIDENT:Probably the defendant Goering put the question. It is the third paragraph on my page.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON:It take it that the minutes came in that way; that when Hilgard appeared Goering addressed him as "Mr. Hilgard".
THE PRESIDENT:Yes, I see.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON:But it is correct as your Honor suggests.
THE WITNESS:I wish to point out that preceding this matter, if this glass damage, as Goebbels said, is involved, the Jews must take care of the damage and I said, "It is not possible, we have no raw material, it is all foreign glass. That will require foreign currency and this is a very important problem." Then come the discussions just mentioned.
BY MR. JUSTICE JACKSON:
QYes, and Hilgard pointed out that - - "Incidentally the amount of damage equals about half of a whole year's production of the Belgian glass industry. We believe that half a year will be necessary for the manufacturers to deliver the glass."
Do you recall that?
AYes.
QWell, passing down, you come to a point at which Hilgard tells you about a store on Unter-den-Linden that was a subject of attack. Do you find that?
AHe said, "the largest cases which we have is the case Markgraf Unter-den Linden." Is that the case you mean?
Q That is right.
AYes, I found the place.
Q "The damage reported to us amounted to about one million seven hundred thousand because the store was completely stripped." Is that right?
AYes.
Q "Goering: Daluege and Heydrich, you will have to get me this jewelry through raids staged on a tremendous scale." Is that the order you gave?
AYes, of course, that the stolen goods would be brought back.
QBrought back to you, brought back not to the Jews.
ANot to me personally, I beg your pardon.
QBrought back to the State -- you didn't intend to return them to the Jews.
AWe are not concerned with that at this point. Decisive is the fact that they were to be returned.
QWe are trying to get the loot back, " as Heydrich put it, is that right, and you added, "and the jewels"?
AI cannot, if a large jewelry store is plundered, permit that nothing be done because these valuables could cause a great deal of damage and therefore, I gave the order, through raids, to bring back these stolen goods as well as other goods. If this business was Aryanized the contents or the inventory of the store went over to the new possessor.
Decisive was that, first of all, against those who did the stealing and the plundering steps would be taken against them and it says here that already one hundred and fifty had been arrested.
QAnd Heydrich continued to report on the method of these raids after you reminded him to bring back, to get the jewels.
"This is very difficult to say. They were partly thrown into the street and picked up there. Similar things happened with the furriers. For example, in Frilderichstrasse, there the crowd was naturally rushing to pick up minks, skunks and so forth. It will be very difficult to recover that. Even the children have filled their pockets just for fun. It is suggested that the Hitler Youth is not to be employed and to participate in such actions without the Party's consent. Such things are very easily destroyed."
A It says that, yes.
QAnd Daluege then suggests: "The Party should issue an order to the effect that the police will immediately receive a report in case the neighbor's wife, everybody knows his neighbor, has a fur coat altered or in case somebody appears wearing new rings or bracelets. We would like the Party to support this". Correct ?
AThis is absolutely correct.
QNow, Hilgard objectedto your plan of relieving the insurance conpanies from paying the claims, did he not ?
AYes, that is right also.
QAnd he gave these reasons:
"Hilgard: If I may give reasons for this request,I would like to say that it simply has to do with the fact that we carry out to a large extent quite a number of international transactions. We have a very good international basis for our business transactions and in the interests of the equilibrium of the foreign exchange in Germany we have to make sure that the confidence in the German insurance shall not be ruined. If we now refuse to honor clear-out obligations imposed upon us through a lawful contract, it would be a black spot on the shield of honor of the German insurance.
"Goering: It would not be the minute I issue a decree, a law sanctioned by the State". Am I quoting correct ?
AYes, and Hilgard's reply, and that was the reply I am concerned with -- he meant without a basis in law they could not refuse to pay their claims but if the sovereign state made a low that the insurance claims may be taken over in favor of the State, then the insu rance company in itself is not responsible for any action there after.
QNow, I suggest to you that that is not correct but that even though you propesed to issue a decree absolving the German insurance companies, the companies insisted on meeting their obligations and then Heydrich iterpsed and said:
"The insurance may be granted but as soon as it is to be paid it will be confecated.
In that way we will have saved our face".
Correct ?
AHedyrich said that but I gave out a clear-cut and definitive law.
QDid you not then say:
"One moment. You will have to pay in any case because it is the Germans who suffered the damage.
But it will be a lowful order forbidding you to make any direct payments to Jews.
You shall also have to make payments for the damage that Jews have suffered but not to the Jews, but to the Minister of Finance.
"Hilgard: Aha".
You adopted Heydrich's suggestion which was quite contrary to the one you brought up ?
ANo, I did not support Heydrich. I made a law that the insurance claims that were to go to Jews were to be redirected to the Ministry of Finance.
I did not agree with Heydrich that insurance was to be paid and on the quiet be confiscated.
I went a definite, legal way and was not afraid to make the law and to take the responsibility that these premiums were to be paid to the State, that is to the Finance Minister.
MR. JUSTICE JACKSON:Well, The Tribunal will judge for itself, we have the evidence.
BY MR.JUSTICE JACKSON:
QNow, Hilgard, representing the insurance companies, then raised the question that the amount of glass insurance premium was very important, that glass insurance was the companies' greatest asset, "but now the amount of this damage is alone twice as high as for the amount of ordinary years" and he raised the question of destroying the profits of the German insurance companies, did he not?
A Yes. Q And also the question of the number of stores destroyed -Heydrich reported 7,500, is that right?
AYes.
QNow, I call your attention to the following conversation.
"Daluege --"
Who, by the way, was he?
ADaluege was the leader of the Schutzpoliezi (Protective Police).
Q "One more question ought to be cleared up. Most of the goods in the stores were not the property of the owner but were kept on the books of other firms which had delivered them. Then there are the unpaid for deliveries by other firms which definitely are not all Jewish but Aryan, those goods that were delivered on the basis of commission.
"Hilgard: We will have to pay for then too.
"Goering: I wish you had killed two hundred Jews and not destreyed such valuables.
"Heydrich: There were thrity-five killed."
Do I read that correctly?
AYes, it was a utterance of spontaneous excitement.
QSpontaneously sincere, wasn't it?
AIt was not meant seriously as I emphasized. It was a spontaneous and momentary excitement about the proceedings, about the destruction of valuables and the difficulties which had arisen for me. Of course, if every word you utter during the course of twentyfive years in intimate circles, if you put then into balance,I admit these utterances assume another nature.
Q Then Funk interposed to discuss the foreign excange point, did he not?
Ho contributed to the discussion, did he not, for a while? I will not bother to go into it.
AYes, but certain parts of the minutes are lacking and it is no clear to me entirely. I regret that these pages are absent.
QI join you in that.
Hilgard returned again to the subject of the profit of the insurance companies, did he not?
AYes, of course.
QAnd you made this statement, did you not?
"The Jews shall have to report the damage. He will get the refund from the insurance company but the refund will be confiscated. If it is all said and done, there will remain some profit to the insurance companies, since they so hot have to make good for all the damage. Mr. Hilgard you may enjoy yourself.
"Hilgard: I have no reason for that. The fact that we won't have to pay all the damage is called profit.
"Goering: Just a moment. If you are compelled under the law to pay five million and all of a sudden there appears an angel in my somewhat corpulent form before you and tells you you may keep one million, why can't that be called making a profit? I should actually split with you or whatever you would call it. I can see it looking at you, your whole body grims, you made a big profit."
Am I quoting correctly?
AYes, of course, I said all of that.
THE PRESIDENT:We will break off now.
(A recess was taken until 14.00).
Official transcript of the International Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America, the French Re public, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics against Hermann Wilhelm Goering et al, Defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 20 March 1946, 1400 to 1700 hours, Lord Justice Lawrence presiding.
DR.SEIDL (Counsel for the Defendant Hess): Mr. President, the Defendant Hess has expressed his wish to be excussed at this afternoon's session, for the reason that he wants to prepare himself for his being called as a witness, which will occur during the next few days, I don't believe that this will cause a delay in the proceedings, and I should to ask the Tribunal to approve this request on Hess's part.
THE PRESIDENT:Certainly, on the same conditions as before, namely, that you arrange with somebody to protect your interests whilst you are absent.
DR. SEIDL:I will not be absent myself, only Hess.
THE PREISDENT:Very well.
CROSS-EXAMINATION -- continued BY MR. JUSTICE JACKSON:
QI would like to call your attention again to the exhibit, US-261, Document 1816-PS. Would you turn to Part 5, where you were speaking of Markgraf's jewels that disappeared?
AThat is going back to what we have passed already.
QYes, for a time, to Part 5. I call your attention to your statement as follows:
"Now, for the damage the Jews had had, at Markgraf's the jewels disappeared and so forth. Well, they are gone and he won't get them refunded. He is the one who has to suffer the damage. If the jewels may be returned again by the Police, they belong to the State."
Do you find that?
AThat's correct, but on the basis of the laws he was compensated for that.
QNow, there was a representative of Austria represent at this meeting, was there not?
AYes.
Q And I ask you to turn to his statement in reference to conditions in Austria, a page or so farther on.
AYes.
QAnd I ask you whether he did not report to your meeting as follows:
"Your Excellency, in this matter we have already a very complete plan for Austria. There are 12,000 Jewish artisans and 5,000 Jewish retail shops in Vienna. Before the national recolution we ha already a definite plan for tradesman, regarding this total of 17,000 stores. Of the shops of the 12,000 artisans,a bout 10,000 were to be closed definitely" - -
AThe interpreter didn't fellow -
QDo you find it?
AT have found it, but the interpreter didn't.
Q "Regarding this total of 17,000 stores, of the shops of the 12,000 artisans, about 10,000 were to be closed definitely and 2,000 were to be kept open. Four thousands of the 5,000 retail stores should be closed and 1,000 kept open, that is, were to be Aryanized. According to this plan, between 3,000 and 3,500 of the total of 17,000 stores would be kept open. all others closed. This was decided following investigations in every single branch and according to lacal needs inagreemant with all competent authorities and is ready for publication as soon as we shall receive the law which we requested in September, This law shall empower us to withdraw licenses from artisans quite independently of the Jewish question.
"Goering: I shall have this decree issued today."
AYes, of course. This had to do with the law for the limitation of the retail trade which without connection with the Jewish question would have required a limitation in numbers. That can be seen from the minutes.
QVery well, let us go an a little further. Do you mean to inform the Tribunal that this did not apply to Jewish shops, that it had no connection with the Jewish question?
AI have said that indepently of the Jewish question, a reduction, an limitation of the stores and shops would have been taken care of in Austria, and that can be seen from the following sentence by Mr. Fischboeck which you nave read, that they asked for a law which should authorize them generally and without with the Jewish question to withdraw licenses That would be a short law.
Whereupon I answered, " The decree may be issued today."
QNow, if you will -
AAnd that now, of course, in the first line, Jewish stores would be eliminated. That I said in the beginning.
QPlease go on down two paragraphs to where this was reported:
"This way I believe that fewer than 100 stores would be left and by the end of the year we would have liquidated all the Jewish-owned businesses which so far have been abvious as such in the eyes of the public, "Goering:
That would be excellent."
AYes, yes, that was the sense -- the reason for that meeting.
"Out of 17,000 stores 12,000 or 14,000 would be shut down and the remainder Aryanized or handed over to the Bureau of Trustees, which is operated by the store.
"Goering: I have to say that this proposal is grand. This way the whole affair would be wound up in Vienna, one of the Jewish capitals, so to Speak, by Christmas or by the end of the year."
"Funk: We can do the same thing here. I have prepared a law elaborating that. Effective the 1st of January, 1939, Jews shall be prohibited from operating retail stores and wholesale establishments, as well asindependent artizan shops.They shall be further prohibited from keeping employees or offering any ready products on the market. Whenever a Jewish shop is operated the police shall shut it down.
"From the 1st of January 1939 a Jew can no longer be employed as an enterpriser, as stipulated in the law for the organization of national labor from the 20th of January, 1934. If a Jew has aleading position in an establishmentwithout being enterpriser, his contract may be declared void within six weeks by the enterpriser. With the expiration of the contract all claims of the employee, including all claims to maintenance, become obliterated. That is always very disagreeable and a great danger.
"A Jew cannot be a member of a corporation. Jewish members of corporations shall have to be retired by the 31st of December 1938. A special authorization is unnecessary. The competent ministers of the Reich are being authorized to issue the provision necessary for execution of this law."
"Goering: I believe we can agree with this law."
AYes.
QNow I ask you to pass a considerable dialogue relating to the Vienna situation and I call your attention to the point at which Funk inquires of you, "Why should the Jew not be allowed to keep bonds?"
"Goering: Because that way he would actually be given a share."
AYes, that was the purpose, to get them out of the enterprise. If he kept the shares, then, on the basis of the law, he still had an intreest in the enterprise, and on the basis of the shares he could still express his will in the enterprise."
Q You turned Funk's suggestion down that the Jews be allowed to keep bonds?
AYes. Obligations I put in the place of bonds.
QWell, we will pass several more pages of debate, unless there is something you want to call attention to, and I come to the point where Heydrich is stating his position. I call your attention to this dialogue:
"Heydrich: At least 45,000 Jews were made to leave the country by legal measures."
"Goering" -
AOne moment, please. I find it now.
"At least 45, 000 Jews were made to leave the country by legal measures. How was this possible?" and then heydrich tells you that "through the Jewish societies we extracted a certain amount of money from the rich Jews who wanted to emigrate. By paying this amount and an additional sum in foreign currency they made it possible for a number of poor Jews to leave. The problem wasn't to make the rich Jew leave but to get rid of the Jewish mob."
Is that correct?
AOne moment, please. I don't find it here yet but generally that is correct, yes.
QPass on a little further. Heydrich is making suggestions and says, "As for the isolation, I would like to make a few proposals regarding police measures, which are important also because of their psychological effect on public opinion.
"For example, who is Jewish according to the Nurnberg laws shall have to wear a certain insignia. That is a possibility which will facilitate many other things. I don't see any danger of excuses, and it will make our relationship with the foreign Jews easier."
"Goering: A uniform?"
"Heydrich: Insignia. This way we could put an end to it htat foreign Jews who don't look different from ours are being molested."
"Goering: But myydear Heydrich, you won't be able to avoid the creation of thettos on a very large scale in all the cities. They shall have to be created."
Is that what you said?