Q You had explained to me that orders for executions were received in the camp at Auschwitz, and you told me that until the outbreak of war such orders were few, but later on they became more numerous.
Is that statement correct?
A Yes. Until the beginning of the war executions were hardly being carried out, only in particularly serious cases, of which I remember one in Buchenwald. An SS man had been attacked and beaten to death by detainees, and the detainees were later hanged. executions increased, and not inconsiderably. sentence of German courts?
A No. In the case of the executions carried on in the camps these were orders from the RSHA. received it? Is it true that occasionally you received orders for executions which had the signature "Kaltenbrunner", and that this was not the original but that it was a teleprint, which therefore had the signature in typewritten letters?
A Yes, it is correct. The originals of execution orders did never come to the camps. The orders either arrived in their original at the Inspectorate of the concentration camps, from where they were transmitted by teleprinter to the camps concerned, or in urgent cases the RSHA sent the orders directly to the camps concerned, and the Inspectorate was then only informed, s o that the signature of course in the camps were alwayson teleprint orders. you tell the Tribunal whether the majority, the far greater majority, of all execution orders, both in the earlier years and until theend of the war, either had the signature "Himmler" or Mueller's signature? Reichsfuehrer, and fewer from thedefendant Kaltenbrunner. Most of them, or I can even say practically all of them, were signed by Mueller.
Q Is that the Mueller about whom you had reported earlier that you had repeatedly talked to him on such matters?
He was concerned with all matters connected with concentration camps and had to discuss them with the Inspectorate. strength of your experience, were of the opinion that this man because of his years of activities was acting independently?
A That is right. I have discussed all matters in concentration camps, and had to, with Mueller. He was informed in all these matters, and in most cases he would make an immediate decision. these matters with the defendant Kaltenbrunner? were being evacuated, and, if so, who gave the orders?
A On that I must say the following. Originally there was an order fromthe Reichsfuehrer, according to which camps, in the event of an approaching enemy or in the event of any air attacks, were to be surrendered to the enemy. Later on, the events at Buchenwald which had been reported to the Fuehrer, or rather -- I am wrong here. At the beginning of 1943 when certain camps came within reach of the enemy this order was withdrawn. The Reichsfuehrer ordered the Higher SS and police leaders, who in an emergency were responsible for the security and safety of the camps, that they should decide whether an evacuation or a surrender was appropriate.
Auschwitz and Grossrosen were evacuated. Buchenwald was also to be evacuated, but then came the order from theReichsfuehrer that no camps were to be evacuated on principle. Only prominent inmates and inmates who were not to fall into Allied hands under any circumstances were first of all taken away to other camps. This applied to the case of Buchenwald. After Buchenwald had been occupied the Fuehrer was told that detainees had armed themselves and were carrying out plunderings in the town of Weimar. This caused the Fuehrer to give a strict order to Himmler that in the future no camps was to be surrendered to the enemy, and that no detainees capable of marching would be left behind in any camp.
Northern and Southern Germany were separated. It applied to the camp at Sashsenhausen. The Gestapo Chief Gruppenfuehrer Mueller called me in the evening and told me thatthe Reichsfuehrer had ordered that the camp at Saschsenhausen was to be evacuated at once. I pointed out to Gruppenfuehrer Mueller what that would mean. Saschsenhausen could no longer fall back on any other camp except perhaps for a few labor camps attached to the armament works, and I said that most of the detainees would have to be put into the woods somewhere. I said that this wouldmean thousands andthousands of deaths and that it would be impossible to r*ed these masses. He promised me that he would once more discuss it with the Reichsfuehrer, and he called me back several hours later and told me that the Reichsfuehrer had refused and was demanding that the kommandants should carry out his order immediately. same manner but could not be evacuated. How far camps in Southern Germany werecleared or not I do not knew, since we as the Inspectorate no longer had any connections with Southern German. question -- that the defendant Kaltenbrunner had given the order that Dachau and two auxiliary camps were to be destroyed by bombing-or poison respectively.
I now ask you, did you hear anything about this and, if not, would you consider such an order possible at all?
A. I have never heard anything about his, and I don't know anything either about an order to evacuate any camps in Southern Germany. I have said that before. Apart from that, I consider it quite impossible that a camps could be destroyed by this method.
DR, KAUFMANN: I have no further questions to the witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Do any of the defendants counsel want to ask any questions?
DR. MERKEL: Dr. Merkel, for the Gestapo. BY DR. MERKEL:
Q. Witness, did these State Police, as an authority of the Reich, have anything to do with the destruction of Jews in Auschwitz? sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann respectively, all orders which referred to the carrying out of that action.
Q. Was the administration of camps under the Economic and Central Department ?
A. Yes.
Q. You said already that in that way there was no contact with the RSHA Please, will you emphasize, therefore, that the Gestapo as such had nothing to do with the administration of the camps or the accomodation in them, feeding and treatment of the detainees, and that this was exclusively a matter for the Economic and Administrative: Central Department?
A. Yes, that is the correct way of describing it.
Q. How do you explain it that you had, nevertheless, several discussions with Mueller in which questions relating to concentration camps were mentioned?
A. The RSHA or AMT IV, Executive Department, was responsible for all admissions of detainees and the division amongst than into grades, 1. 2, 3. Furthermore, punishments which were to be carried out by the RSHA, executions accomodation of special detainees, and all the points which arose from that, all these things went through RSHA or the Department IV respectively.
Q. When was the Economic and Administrative Central Department created?
A. It existed since 1933 but under various descriptions. The Inspectorate of concentration camps was created as late as 1941 and subordinated to this Administrative Department, Central Department, which means the SS and not the State Police.
A. Yes.
Q. You mentioned the name of Dr. Rascher earlier. Do you know him personally?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know that Dr. Rascher before he started work in Dachau was taken over by the SS?
A. No, I had no idea. I only know -- wait a minute. I still saw him in the uniform of an air force medical officer, but I believe he was taken over into the SS later on, but I haven't seen him in that capacity.
Q. I have no further questions. Thank you very much.
DR. BABEL: Dr. Babel, for the SS. BY DR. BABEL:
Q. Witness, at the beginning of your examination you have stated that the Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler, when he ordered you to come and see him, had told you that the carrying out of this order of the Fuehrer was to be left to the SS, that had been ordered to the SS. What does one have to understand under SS in this general way in which it has been mentioned?
A. According to the explanations of the Reichsfuehrer, this could only be the guarding of concentration camps.
Q. Pleas carry on.
A. The carrying out of this task under consideration of the existing orders could only concern men guarding concentration camps, and that meant Waffen SS.
Q. How many members of the SS were there in concentration camps, and which units did they belong to?
A. Toward the end of the war there were approximately 35,000men of SS units, and in my estimation approximately 10,000 men from the Army, Air Force, and the Navy, who were employed at the labor camps for guard duties.
Q. What were the tasks of these guards? As far as I know, they were different. There was the actual guarding and then there was a certain amount of administrative work, in the actual compounds.
A. Yes, that is correct. It is correct in that sense.
Q. How many guards were employed in the inner compounds? That is to say, can you estimate it down to a thousand? How many guards were necessary for a thousand detainees?
A. You can't express it in that way. According to my experiences, the situation was that 10 percent of the total number of guarding personnel were used for interior purposes, that is to say, administration and supervision of detainees within the compounds, medical personnel, and all that sort of thing.
Q So that 90 per cent were therefore guarding outside the camps;
that is to say, they were watching the camp from watch towers; they were looking after working commandos of the company deternees?
the so-called Kapos?
filled even the lowest requirements of their duties. Furthermore, there their own hands almost exclusively.
In that connection, of course, there was a great deal of ill-treatment which couldn't be stopped at all because What punishment was used?
work, and deterioration of their accomodations as such; next, detention in the cell block and detention in a dark cell; and in the case of very serious cases, shackling, chaining.
The punishment of "turning" was prohibited by the Reichsfuehrer in either '43 or '44.
Then, there was the so-called stand independently.
He could only apply for it. In the case of men, the camps which have also been called concentration camps.
There was one at
A That's right.
proper?
centration Camps. They were under the SS police courts, and I myself have never
Q So that you don't know anything about the standing orders in those camps?
DR. BABEL: I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will adjourn for ten minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
DR. KARL HAENSEL: I have a question that I would like to ask the High Tribunal A second defense has been requested for the SS. Is it admissible by the Court that, for the second defense counsel, several questions may be put on his behalf ?
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal ruled, a long time ago, that only one counsel could be heard.
DR. KARL HAENSEL: Yes, sir. BY DR. KRANZBUEHLER (counsel for defendant Doenitz): guard concentration camps.
Q Was it concentration camps, or was it labor camps ?
Q Did labor camps -- Were they used auxiliary to armament?
A Yes, if they weren't in the actual building, they were used as auxiliaries. labor camps were transferred or used by the SS.
A That is only partially correct. Part of these men -- I do not recall the figures -- were taken over into the SS. A part were again returned to the unit, that is, were exchanged back. There was a continuous flux or change.
DR. KRANZBUEHLER: Thank you very much.
COLONEL AMEN: If the Tribunal please, first I would like to submit, on behalf of our British Allies, a series of exhibits pertaining to the Waffen SS, without reading them. It is merely statistical information with respect to the number of Waffen SS guards used at the concentration camps. D-749-b, and D-750, one of them being an affidavit of this witness.
(The documents were submitted to the witness.) BY COLONEL AMEN: you?
Q And you are familiar with the content of the others?
Q And you testify that those figures are true and correct?
COLONEL AMEN: These will become Exhibit No. 810, USA.
Q (Continuing) Witness, from time to time did any high Nazi officials or functionaries visit the camp at Mauthausen or Dachau while you were there ?
Q Will you state the names of such persons to the Tribunal please ? Gauleiters were at Dachau, and Himmler led this group. As far as particular people are concerned, I cannot give you any information. camps while you were there ?
A Do you mean the inspection tour of 1935?
A Yes, in 1935 Minister Frick wrap at Sachsenhausen; he was there with the Regierungspraesidenten.
Q Do you recall any other ministers who were there at any time?
Q Who was he?
Q And who else? Do you recall any others?
A Yes, although it is hard for me to recall the name at present.
Q Well, who? but at the moment I can't recall the name.
Q All right. You have testified that many of the execution orders were signed by Mueller. Is that correct? testified were signed by-
DR. STEINBAUER (counsel for defendant Seyss-Inquart):
know the contents of these documents. I request that we be
THE PRESIDENT: Haven't copies of these documents been handed to the defendants?
COLONEL AMEN: Yes, so I understood. We have copies here.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the matter can be looked into. BY COLONEL AMEN: you testify were signed by Mueller. Do you understand? testify were signed by Mueller were also signed by order of, or as representative of, the Chief of the RSHA, Kaltenbrunner?
A Yes. Underneath it said--that is, as far as the copies that I saw are concerned, after I was at Oranienburg--it said, under the heading, "RSHA, i.v." That means, "in Vertretung", or "as a representative," "Mueller."
of the Chief of the RSHA, Kaltenbrunner? Is that not correct? Chief of the RSHA, Kaltenbrunner. the prosecution?
COLONEL AMEN: I ask that the witness be shown Exhibit 3868-PS, (A document was submitted to the witness.)
Q You signed that affidavit voluntarily, witness?
Q And the affidavit is true in all respects?
COLONEL AMEN: This, if the Tribunal please, we have in four languages. told us about in part, so I will omit some parts of the affidavit. Follow along with me as I read, please.
Do you have a copy of the affidavit before you?
I will omit the first paragraph and start with paragraph 2:
" I have been constantly associated with the aministration of concentration camps since 1934, serving at Dachau until 1938; then as Adjutant in Sachenhausen from 1938 to May 1, 1940, when I was appointed Commandant of Auschwitz. I commanded Auschwitz until 1 December, 1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease making a total dead of about 3,000,000. This figure represents about 70% or 80% of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners, the remainder having been selected and used for slave labor in the concentration camp industries, Included among the executed end burnt were approximately 20,000 Russian prisoners of war (previously screened out of Prisoner of War cages by the Gestapo) who were delivered at Auschwitz in Wehrmach transports operated by regular Wehrmacht officers and men. The remainder of the total number of victims included about 100,000 German Jews, and great numbers of citizens, mostly Jewish, from Holland, France Belgium, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Greece, or other countries. We executed about 400,000 Hungarian Jews alone at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944."
That is all true, witness? paragraph 3:
"Prior to establisment of the RSHA, secret state police office (Gestapo) and the Reich Office of Criminal Police were responsible for arrests, commitments to concentration camps, punishments and executions therein. After organization of the RSHA all of these functions were carried on as before but pursant to orders signed by Heydrich as Chief of the RSHA. While Kaltenbrunner was Chief of RSHA orders for protective custody, commitments, punishment and individual executions were signed by Kaltenbrunner or by Mueller, Chief of the Gestapo, as Kaltenbrunn Deputy."
THE PRESIDENT: Just for the sake of accuracy, the last date in paragraph 2, is that 1943 or 1944?
Q. 1944, I believe. Is that date correct, witness, at the close of paragraph 2, namely, that the 400,000 Hungarian Jews alone at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944 were executed? Is that 1944 or 1943?
A. 1944. Part of that figure may be traced back to 1943, but the end was 1944, that is, the autumn of 1944.
Q. Right.
"Mass executions by gassing commenced during the summer of 1941 and continued until Fall 1944. I personally supervised executions at Auschwitz until the first of December 1943 and know by reason of my continued, duties in the Inspectorate of Concentration Camps WVHA that these maps executions continued as stated above. All mass executions by gassing took place under the direct order, supervision, and responsibility of RSHA. I received all orders for carrying out these mass executions directly from RSHA."
Are those statements true and correct, witness?
A. Yes, they are.
"5. On 1 December 1943 I became Chief of Amt I in Amt Group D of the WVHA, and in that office was responsible for coordinating all matters arisin, between RSHA and concentration camps under the administration of WVHA. I hold this position until the end of the war. Pohl, as Chief of WVHA, and Kaltembrunner, as Chief of RSHA, often conferred personally and frequently communicated orally and in writing concerning concentration camps."
You have already told us about the lengthy report which you took to Kaltenbrunner in Berlin, so I will omit the remainder of paragraph 5."6. The 'final solution' of the Jewish question meant the complete extermination of all Jens in Europe.
I was ordered to establish extermination facilities at Auschwitz in June 1941. At that time, there were already in the general government three other extermination camps; BELZEK, TREBLINKA and WOLZEK. These camps were under the Einsatzkommando of the Security Police and SD. I visited Treblinka to find out how they carried out their extermination. The Camp Commandant at Treblinka told no that he had liquidated 80,000 in the course of one-half year. He was principally concerned with liquidating all the Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto. He used monoxide gas, and I did not think that his methods were very efficient. So when I set up the extermination building at Auschwitz, I used Cyclon B, which was a crystallized Prussic Add which we dropped into the death chamber from a small opening. It took from 3 to 15 minutes to kill the people in the death chamber, depending upon climatic conditions. To know when the people were dead because their screaming stopped. To usually waited about one-half hour before no opened the doors and removed the bodies. After the bodies were removed our special commandos took off the ringsand extracted the gold from the teeth of the corpses."
Is that all true and correct, witness? from the teeth of the corpses, do you know?
Q Will you tell the Tribunal? medical office of the SS at Berlin.
Q "Another improvement we made over Treblinka was that no built our gas chamber to accommodate 2,000 people at one time, whereas at Treblinka their 10 gas chambers only accommodated 200 people each.
The way we selected our victims was as follows: we had two SS doctors on duty at Auschwitz to examine the incoming transports of prisoners. The prisoners would be marched by one of the doctors who would make spot decisions as they walked by. Those who more fit for work mere sent into the Camp. Others more sent immediately to the extermination plants. Children of tender years mere invariably exterminated since by reason of their youth they were unable to work. Still another improvement we made over Treblinka was that at Treblinka the victims almost always know that they were to be exterminated and at Auschwitz me endeavored to fool the victims into thinking that they were to go through a delousing process. Of course, frequently they realized our true intentions and we sometimes had riots and difficulties duo to that fact. Very frequently women would hide their children under the clothes but of course when we found them me mould send the children in to be exterminated. We were required to carry out the so exterminations in secrecy but of course the foul and nauseating stench from the continuous burning of bodies permeated the entire area and all of the people living in the surrounding communities know that exterminations more going on at Auschwitz."
Is that all true and correct, witness? the medical experiments as to which you have already testified.
"10. Mr. Rudolf Mildner was, the chief of the Gestapo at Kattowicz from approximately March 1941 until September 1943 As such, he frequently sent prisoners to Auschwitz for incarceration or execution. He visited Auschwitz on several occasions. The Gestapo Court, the SS Standgericht, which tried persons accused of various crimes, such as escaping Prisoners of War, etc., frequently met within Auschwitz, and Mildner often attended the trial of such persons, who usually were executed in Auschwitz following their sentence. I showed Mildner throughout the extermination plant at Auschwitz and he was directly interested in it since he had to send the Jews from his territory for execution at Auschwitz.
"I understand English as it is written above. The above statements are true; this declaration is made by me voluntarily and without compulsion; after reading over the statement I have signed and executed the same at Nurnberg, Germany, on the Fifth day of April, 1946."
you true to your own knowledge?
COLONEL AMEN: That concludes my cross examination, except for one Exhibit that our British allies would like to have in, which is a summary sheet of the Exhibits which I introduced at the commencement of the cross examination. That will be Exhibit 819. It is a summary of the earlier exhibits that I put in with respect to the Waffen SS at the commencement of my cross examination. the French delegations have one or two questions which they consider peculiar to their country which they would like to put to this witness.
THE PRESIDENT: General Rudenko, you will remember that the Tribunal were assured by counsel for the prosecution that so far as witnesses were concerned, with the exception of one or two particular defendants, the prosecution would have only one cross examination and, now, since thatassurance was given, this is the second instance when the prosecution have desired to have more than one cross examination.
GENERAL RUDENKO: This is correct, Mr. President, that the prosecution did make that statement at some time; however, the prosecution has reserved the right on certain occasions when deemed necessary to do otherwise. Since, in this case, the prosecution represent four different States, occasions do arise when each of the prosecutors feel that he must ask the defendant or his witnesses questions particularly interesting to his country.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you indicate the nature of the questions which the Soviet Prosecution desire to put: I mean the subjects upon which they are. I don't mean the exact questions but the subject.
GENERAL RUDENKO: Yes, I understand. Colonel Pokrovsky, who will ask the question, will report on time subject to the Tribunal.
COLONEL POKROVSKY: May I report to you, Mr. President, that the questions of interest to the Soviet Prosecution are those dealing specifically with the annihilation of the Soviet citizens and some details connected with that annihilation. At the request of the French Prosecution, I would also like to ask two or three questions connected with the documents which at one time were submitted as F-709-A, which were submitted by the French Prosecution to the Tribunal. This is really all there is; however, these questions do have great importance for the Soviet and French Prosecution. This is why I would like to ask them.
THE PRESIDENT: Colonel Pokrovsky, the Tribunal, as has just been stated, made the rule, with the assent of the prosecutors, that in the case of the witnesses there should be one cross examination. There is nothing in the Charter which expressly gives to the prosecution the right for each prosecutor to cross examine and there is, on the other hand, Article 18 which directs the Tribunal to take strict measures to prevent any action which will cause unreasonable delay, and, in the opinion of the Tribunal in the present case, the subject has been fully covered and the Tribunal therefore think it right to adhere to the rules which they have laid, down in this case.
They will therefore not hear any further cross examination.
Do you wish to re-examine, Dr. Kauffman.
DR. KAUFFMANN: I will try to be very; brief. BY DR. KAUFFMANN: 2 that at least an additional half million died through starvation and disease. Now, I am asking you, in what period of time did this death by starvation take place? Does this cover to the end of the war also or does this apply to an earlier period?
A No. I am dealing solely with the war years, from the end of 1942 to the end of the war.
Q Under point 3 -- Do you stillhave the affidavit before you?
DR. KAUFFMANN: May I ask that we return the affidavit to the witness? BY DR. KAUFFMANN: regarding protective custody, punishment, commitments and special executions were signed by Kaltenbrunner or Mueller -- "Mueller, Chief of theGestapo and Deputy of Kaltenbrunner", was signed. In that way, do you wish to contradict that which you stated just previously? saw only very few decrees which were actually signed by Kaltenbrunner. Most of them were signed by Mueller.
Q Under point 4, towards the end of the paragraph, you state, "All mass executions took place under the direct order, supervision and responsibility of the RSHA. I received all orders for carrying out these mass executions directly from RSHA." Your statement, which you just made to the Tribunal, had as its context that this entire action came directly from Himmler through Eichmann, who had been personally delegated, and you received your instructions from him. Do you still stand on that?
that which you testified to before?
A No. I am always saying that the re was a connection of the RSHAand the Obersturmbannfuehrer Eichmann. am not going to read verbatim, but I wish to say that you said that even though exterminations took place secretly, the population in the outlying districts knew of the extermination of people, and I am asking you now: Didn't even at a previous or earlier period of time -- that is, before the beginning of this special extermination action, didn't an action of this nature take place of people who had died in a normal manner in Auschwitz?
A Yes, even when the crematoriums had not been built; a part of those who had died, who could not be cremated in thecamp itself, we burned them in large evens, and a large number -- I don't recall the exact figure -were buried in a mass grave and later were cremated also. That was before this extermination of Jews began, however, is described here, we cannot conclusively prove that this was an extermination of Jews?