Then he goes on to say:
"This conversation with Puhl occurred just a short time, approximately two weeks, before the first delivery, which occurred on August 26, 1942. The conversation was in the office of Mr Puhl; nobody else was present. I don't remember if Mr Frommknecht was present during the whole time; and Puhl said it was very important not to discuss this with anybody, that it was to be highly secret, that it was a special transaction, and if anybody asked about it that I say I was forbidden to speak about it."
And on the next page you find in paragraph 8 Mr. Thoms says;
"I was told by Mr. Puhl that if I had any questions on this matter I was to get in touch with Brigadenfuehrer Frank or with Gruppenfuehrer or Obergruppenfuehrer Wolff of the SS. I remember getting the telephone number of this office, and I think I recall it was furnished me by Mr. Puhl. I called Brigadefuehrer Frank about this, and he stated that the deliveries would be made by truck and would be in charge of an SS man by the name of Melmer. The question was discussed whether Melmer should appear in uniform or civilian clothes, and Frank decided it was better that Melmer appear out of uniform." And so on.
Then, moving on down, he says in paragraph 10:
"When the first delivery was made, however, although Melmer appeared in civilian clothes, one or two SS men in uniform were on guard, and after one or two deliveries, most of the people in the Hauptkasse and almost everybody in my office knew all about the SS deliveries," Then moving on again, paragraph 12:
"Included in the first statement sent by the Reichsbank and signed by me, to Melmer was a question concerning the name of the account to which the proceeds should be credited. In answer to that I was orally advised by Melmer that the proceed should be credited to the account of 'Max Heiliger.' I confirmed this on the telephone with the Ministry of Finance, and in my second statement to Melmer, dated 16 November 1942, I confirmed the oral conversation."
Now, the next paragraph is 13:
"After a few months, Puhl called me and asked me how the Melmer deliveries were going along, and suggested that perhaps they would soon be over.
I told Puhl that the way the deliveries were coining in it looked as though they were growing," And then I call your attention to the next paragraph:
"One of the first hints of the sources of these items occurred when it was noticed that a packet of bills was stamped with a rubber stamp 'Lublin'. This occurred some time early in 1943. Another hint came when some items bore the stamp 'Auschwitz'. We all knew that these places were the sites of concentration camps. It was the tenth delivery in November 1942 that dental gold appeared. The quantity of the dental gold became unusually great." attention to the fact that Thoms says you called him and asked him how the Melmer deliveries were going, and also to the fact that you, as he states here, impressed upon him the need for absolute secrecy. will recall that you told our people yesterday that that affidavit, insofar as your knowledge was concerned, was absolutly true. Now I am going to ask you if it isn't a fact that there was a very special reason for keeping this transaction secret. the wish for secrecy originated from the SS, and that tallies quite exactly with what I have said earlier, namely, that the SS were keen to see that this was done, and they were the originators of this wish for secrecy. That goes as far as adopting the name of "Max Heiliger," inventing it for the account. for the Reichs Ministry of Finance. In other words, this tallies with what I have been saying, namely, that the special duty for secrecy was imposed and wished by the SS, and was carried out; and that it applied to the transfer of the value for these articles. talked to Thoms, as I stated yesterday, I do not remember such a conversation. And I can't imagine that I might have gone to see him. That would have been quite an unusual procedure.
As to whether the word "Melmer" deliveries was used in that connection, I don't remember, but I suggest that it was used for simplicity's sake in this connection, and that it was used just to signify what was meant.
Q It isn't too important, but of course he says you called him on the telephone, that you didn't go to see him. However, I offer this as USA Exhibit 850.
THE PRESIDENT: This statement we have before us doesn't appear to be sworn.
MR. DODD: Well, the witness is here in Nurnberg. I will withdraw it and have it sworn to and submitted at a later date. I wasn't aware that it wasn't sworn to. He is here and available. I had him brought here in case any question was raised about him. BY MR. DO DD: too, didn't he? Now that we are talking this thing all out, what about that? Treasury, the Reichsbank rather. It is Number 3947-PS, and it is a new document. You haven't seen this, by the way. and its subject is, "Utilization of jewels, and so forth, which were acquired by official agencies in favour of the Reich.
"According to the oral confidential agreement between vice president Mr. Puhl and the Chief of one of Berlin's public offices, the Reichsbank took over the selling of loval and foreigh currencies, gold and silver coins, previous metals, securities, jewels, watches, diamonds and other previous objects. All incoming objects will be processed under the code name "MELMER".
"The large number of previous objects acquired hereby have been turned over to the Municipal Pawn Shop, Div. III Main Office Berlin N 4" -- and the rest of the address -- "for the best possible utilization after checking the number of pieces and their weight, provided they have not been smelted."
I am not going to read all of it. It goes on with more material about th pawn shop, but I want to call your attention to the paragraph beginning "The Reichsmarshal of the Greater German Reich, the Deputy for the Four Year Plan informed the German Reichsbank, in a letter of 19-3-44, a copy of which is enclosed, that considerable amounts of gold and silver objects, jewels, and so forth, at the main office of the Board of Trustees East should be delivered to the Reichsbank according to the order issued by Minister of the Reich, Funk and Graf Schwerin Krosigk. The utilization of these objects should be accomplished in the same way as the Melmer deliveries. The Reichsmarshal informed us also about the utilization of objects of the same kind, which have been acquired in the occupied Western territories. We do not know to which office these objects have been delivered and how they are utilized." the pawn shops, and so on. But, first of all, I want to ask you: In the firs paragraph it says "According to the oral confidential agreement between you an the Chief of one of Berlin's public offices." Who was the chief of the Berlin public office that had the confidential agreement about this business with you
A. That was Mr. Pohl, and it was the agreement which we discussed this morning.
Q. That was Mr. Pohl of the SS, wasn't it?
A. Yes.
Q. And there was this whole transaction; this is his transaction that th memorandum is about, that much of it is about.
A. This is a report from our cashier, and within the duty of secrecy it avoided the words "SS Economic Department." It is using general terms, It says "The head of a Berlin public office."
Q. And in another paragraph it refers to the incoming objects to be processed under the code name 'Melmer', m-e-l-m-e-r. That is the name I asked you a few minutes ago if you recognized, isn't It?
A. I didn't understand the question.
Q. Well, the last sentence in this paragraph says: "All incoming objects Will be processed under the code name 'MELMER'" M-e-l-m-e-r-. That is the name I asked you about a few minutes ago, and you said you didn't know it.
A. Yes, and this statement shows that I couldn't have know it, because the cashier himself is giving the information that it is being carried out unde the name "Melmer."
Q. I think if you will read it you will see that it shows jest the opposite. It says according to the oral confidential agreement between you and Pohl of the SS, the Reichsbank took over the selling, and so on, of gold, silver coins, and so forth. "All incoming objects will be processed under the code name 'MELMER.'" on in your bank -
A. Yes Q. -- over which you were vice president, under a code name, and you didn't know it, and you were the man who was dealing directly with the SS man.
Are you seriously saying that to this Court?
A. Yes. The word "Melmer" was never used in my presence, but the directors had the possibility of using a code word if they preferred not to use their own name. In this connection the cashier's office made use of that procedure.
Q. You will observe that this is the second time this mroning that we have run across the name Melmer. Mr. Thomas says you used that term in talking to him, and now we find it in one of your own bank memorandums, which is a captured document. Are you still saying that you don't know the term?
A. Just because -- incidentally, the memorandum wasn't made for me. It was made for the cashier's representative, but particularly because it was to inform him regarding the arrangements made by the cashier's office. That is the very explanation under which this code name in this transaction was being carried out.
Q. Mr. Puhl, look up at me a minute, will you. Didn't you tell Lt. Meltzer, Lt. Margolies, and Dr. Kempner, when they were all together with you that all of this business with the SS was common gossip in the Reichsbank? These gentlemen who are sitting right here, two of them at the United States table and one up here. You know them. Now I want you to think a minute before you answer that question.
A. We talked about it, that the secret hadn't been kept since it can't be kept in a bank permanently, but that has nothing to do with it. What we are discussing at this moment deals with the technical details, how this sort of transaction is being acrried out. Something which couldn't be avoided was that the fact as such became know.
Q. Now, in case you don't understand me, we are not talking about that. I think you cannot help but remember, because this is only a day or so ago, in this building, you had a conversation with these gentlemen, didn't you?
And I am now asking you if it isn't a fact that you told them that this whole SS transaction with the hank was common gossip in the bank.
details ware of course not known.
Q Are you worried about your part in this? I think that is a fair question in view of your affidavit end your testimony. Are you concerned about what you had to do with this business? Are you?
A No. I myself, once ithad been started, had nothing to do with it, nothing further to do with the matter. Thoms' statement, which you have Just submitted, shows that he himself admits that I didn't see Pohl in the bank. During the meetings of the Directorate this matter was never reported, and no decision was ever called for in that connection. were the one who first told him about the SS business. Is that your version of it?
A No. My recollection is that the first conversation took place with President Funk when he told me, for reasons which I told you earlier, that we wanted to please the SS and to take over these deposits after all. That is the way it was used. about it, when you said "Can you imagine Himmler talking to me instead of Funk?" Do you remember saying that to these gentlemen?
A I didn't quite understand the last question.
Q Well, it is not too important. I say, don't you remember telling these gentlemen, Lt. Meltzer, Lt. Margolies, don't you remember making this statement; That Himmler wouldn't talk to you as vice president of the Bank, but that he would talk to Funk. You were quite exercised when we told you that Funk had said that you were the man who originated this.
Q You got terribly upset about it. Don't you remember that?
Q Finally, this question: Are you serious in saying that youdidn't know about these deposits until you were interrogated in Frankfurt, or what the nature of them was? In view of the Thoms' affidavit, this exhibit that I have Just shown you, and the whole examination this morning, do you want your testimony to close with the statement that you actually didn't know what was in these deposits at any time?
cashier's office was seen by me at Frankfurt for the first time. It has never been before me before, and I didn't concern myself with the details of this transaction. I couldn't as vice president, since I was responsible for general economic and military policy, or rather armament policy. After all, we had a very highly qualified expert in our cashier's office who, if necessary, could have made a report, or should have made a report to the Directorate of the Reichsbank.
Q Of course you don't deny that you knew there were jewels and silver and all these other things in the deposits, do you?
A It has been said at the beginning that Schmucksachen (jewelry) had been used.
Q You knew the deposits. You knew there was jewelry, some jewelry, there. You knew there was some currency. You knew there were coins. You knew there were other articles. Now, the only thing you didn't know was the dental gold; is that so? at the beginning, Mr. Pohl had told me that in principal and in the majority these deposits weald contain gold, foreign currencies, silver coins, and he added "some jewelry."
Q Well, now the question I think you can answer simply is; Everything that is mentioned in your affidavit except the dental gold you did know was on deposit from the SS, Don't you understand that question? I don't think it is complicated. You don't need to read anything, Mr. Puhl. If you will just look up here, I am asking you if you knew about everything that is mentioned in your affidavit except the dental gold.
A I knew about jewelry, but I didn't know how, in detail, this jewelry would lock.
Q I am not asking you about details. I am simply asking if you don't know it was there. You knew there was currency there, and you knew there were articles there. That is about the only things that are mentioned excepting the dental gold, and that is the one thing you seem now to have not known.
repeat -
Q So the only thing you say now you didn't know was the dental gold. That is all I am asking you. Why don't you answer that? It doesn't take very long. Isn't that so? The only thing you didn't know was the dental gold.
Q Well, what else is mentioned you didn't know about?
A This mentions, for instance; spectacle frames.
Q You didn't know about those either? All right, I will include those, spectacle frames and dental gold.
Q Those are the only two you didn't know about?
A I had bean informed only by means of the general term "jewelry." aren't they, eye glass frames and dental gold?
MR. DODD I have no further questions, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: One moment, please. Have you got a copy of your affidavit befor you?
THE WITNESS: Of the 3rd of May, yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Have you only got one copy of it?
THE WITNESS: I will just have a look.
THE PRESIDENT: Let me have it, please, will you?
(A document was handed to the President.)
THE PRESIDENT: This documetn will be identified, and form part of the record. It had better be given whatever the appropriate number is.
MR. DODD: I believe, Mr. President, that is already in evidence.
THE PRESIDENT: Not this particular document, it is not. Yhis is the particular document he had before him, which has a number of manuscript notes on it, and is in the English language.
Mr. Dodd, you had better lock at it.
MR. DODD: All right, sir.
I believe it would be come U.S.A. Exhibit 851; I think that is the next r number in sequence.
THE PRESIDENT: U.S.A. Exhibit 851; very well.
MR. DODD: I might say, I think there is no question that might be helpful to the Tribunal with respect to this affidavit. BY MR. DODD:
Q Mr. Puhl, you personally typed up a large part of this affidavit yourself, did you not, or wrote it up, or dictated it?
THE PRESIDENT: And then you signed it after you had altered it?
THE WITNESS (nods head.)
THE PRESIDENT: Do not nod; please answer. You said, "A complete draft was put before me, and I altered it". And I ask you, did you then sign it?
THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. DODD:
Did you not put your initials in each place that you wanted to make a change?
Isn't that so?
A No; we copied it again.
Q You copied it anew. Did you not mark the places that you wanted change and say how you wanted it changed? You did, did you not?
A Yes; but that was of little significance. For instance, the word "Reichsbank" was replaced, and "Gold Discount Bank" was used, and there were some other snail changes like that.
MR. DODD: It right be helpful to the Tribunal to know that it was re-writte and initialed.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well. BY THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle):
Q Mr. Witness, I want to ask you a few questions. The first you heard a about those transactions was from the defendant Funk, was it not?
Q Did Funk tell you who had told him about then in the SS?
Q Himmler had spoken to Funk about this? about this?
Q You do not know whether Pohl was there also?
A No, I cannot tell you that. But I can say that right from the beginning the name of the Minister of Finance was being used and mentioned. But whether he was personally there, I do not know.
Q Did Funk say to you what Himmler said to him? disposal of the SS for this purpose. Board of Directors?
Q Was Funk at that meeting?
Q What did you say to the Board of Directors?
Q What did you say to them?
A In a few words I described my conversation with Mr. Funk, my conversation with Mr. Pohl, and confirmed the fact that the Reichsbank was taking valuables of the SS into theit vaults.
Q And then did the Board of Directors approve the action?
A Yes; there was no objection.
Q Now, the Defendant Funk said to you that these objects had come "from the East", did he not?
Q What did you understand that he meant by that phrase, "from the East"?
A Principally I thought of occupied Poland; but some Russian territories may have been meant by it.
Q You knew that this was confiscated property, I presume? the property, did you not? be placed at the disposal of his men; and that I offered to do so and describing it?
Q I did not ask you whether it was talked about. I asked you whether the services included arranging the property and putting in different kinds of containers and sacks. Is that what you did?
A Yes. That was up to a decision by the directors of the Cashier's Department. If they considered it necessary, they could do so.
Q Was that done?
A That I could not know. That is a matter for the Cashier's Department.
DR. SAUTER: Mr. President, may I put two very brief questions, please?
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, Dr. Sauter. BY. DR. SAUTER:
Q The one question, Witness, is this: You have always been asked who has talked to you here during the past few days.
A In Nurnberg?
Q Yes, in Nurnberg. And you have heard that several members of the Prosecution have discussed this affair with you during the last few days.
I should like to ascertain this. Have I talked to you?
Q I will say I saw you for the first time in my life to-day. I just wanted to state this for correctness's sake.
And the second question is this: This is something you have already confirm ed; but after the Prosecution's cross examination, I should like to put it to you again. submitted and which you have read, was there ever any mention of the fact that these were articles which came from concentration camps?
A The word "concentration camp" was neither used during the conversation with Mr. Funk nor during the conversation with Mr. Pohl.
Q So that Funk did not give you a hint of that type, either?
DR. SAUTER: In that case, Mr. President, I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: The Witness can retire, and the Tribunal will adjourn.
(A recess was taken.)
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Dodd, you did offer 3947 as an exhibit, did you not?
MR. DODD: Yes, sir, I did, as Exhibit 850, I believe it was.
THE PRESIDENT: 850 was the order, and then that copy of the Puhl affidavit was 851?
MR. DODD: That is right. I did not offerthe other affidavit because we discovered it wasn't sworn to. I have it here and I will do it later, and I have that witness here. This thing can't go on interminably and I don't want to drag it on, but I would like to offer the affidavit when he can swear to it, and if there is going to be any demand for him I would like to state that Dr. Stuckert? is not a prisoner. He is a free man in this country.
THE PRESIDENT: He should be called now.
MR. DODD: If he is going to be called I would suggest that it be done soon.
THE PRESIDENT: If you want to cross examine him he should be called now.
DR. SEIDEL: Mr. President, I am representing Attorney-At-Law, Dr. Hoffmann for the defendant Goering. The defendant, Goering, asked me in the re-examination of the witness Puhl to ask two questions. The questions will probably be in connection with the Document which the Prosecution submitted to the witness, Puhl, in cross examination, Document 3947 PS. The Prosecution on page 2 of this document read sentence 3, which begins as follows:
"The Reich Marshall of the Greater German Reich -- "
THE PRESIDENT: If you want to put questions to the witness Puhl on behalf of the defendant Goering you can do so and Puhl will be recalled for that purpose.
DR. SEIDEL: Mr. President, the difficulty is something else. The defendant Goering has in my opinion a justification. The questions which he wanted to ask the witness he could put plainly if he previously had an opportunity to see the document to which the Prosecution referred. Therefore, during the cross-examination I wanted to have the sergeant on duty give document 3947 to defendant Goering. This was refused with the explanation that on the basis of an order of the Commandant of the Prison, documents can no longer be given to the defendants in the main proceeding when their case has already been concluded.
THE PRESIDENT: As long as the document was read over the earphones the defendant Goering and yourself shall certainly see the document, but the witness must be called during this sitting. You may see the document and the defendant Goering may see the document, but the witness must be recalled for any questions at once.
DR. SEIDEL: Mr. President, only excerpts were read from the document. In my opinion the defendant Goering if he desired to ask a sensible question must know the whole document. I am of the opinion that there are only two possibilities; Either the defense will in the case of defendants whose cases are already concluded, disperse with further material in crossexamination; or the defendants will be given the opportunity to see the now evidence submitted in documents from which excerpts are read, and that can only be done by showing the defendant the whole document.
THE PRESIDENT: There is only just one page and there is only one paragraph in it which refers to Goering. And that paragraph has already been read. When I say one page, it is just one page of this English copy. I think you have a German translation before you.
DR. SEIDEL: I have three and one half pages.
THE PRESIDENT: There is only one paragraph which relates to Goering.
DR. SEIDEL: It is only a matter of whether in the main proceedings I may give this copy to the defendant Goering. If this is possible -- and I see no reason why this should not be possible -- I will be able to ask the witness Puhl any questions that are necessary. I am of the opinion the defendant is right when he says that of a document from which only excerpts are read he would like to read the whole document.
MR. DODD: Mr. President, I would like to point out that Dr. Seidel had the document for 10 minutes during the recess; and also I would like to point out that we did not like to prevent his having the document; it is a security measure altogether.
THE PRESIDENT: Perhaps you will be satisfied, Dr. Seidel, if the witness Puhl is recalled at two o'clock for Dr. Seidel to put any questions to his that he wishes. And of course he would have the document. He has the document now.
And of course Goering would have the document too.
DR. SEIDEL: That is the difficulty, Mr. President. I have the document but on the basis of the instructions of the police the defendant Goering is not allowed to have the document.
THE PRESIDENT: You can give the document to Goering now.
DR. SEIDEL: I am not allowed to do that.
THE PRESIDENT: I am telling you to do it, and they will let you do it.
Dr. Sauter, do you wish to cross-examine the man who has made a statement? Do you wish to cross-examine Toms?
DR. SAUTER: Please, yes.
THE PRESIDENT: You do?
DR. SAUTER: Yes. Mr. President, may I comment on what Dr. Seidel has just said? It isn't just a question of this one document which Dr. Seidel just wanted to give the defendant Goering. It is a general question of whether a defense counsel is justified in giving a defendant during a session, documents. So far that was permitted. Now the police say that those defendants whose cases have been completed here for the present may no longer be given any documents by the defense counsel in the court-room. We of defense counsel feel that that is unjustified, since it may very easily happen that the defendants may have something -- may have some connection with a later case. We request you and the Court that in the future the defendants should be permitted -- the defense counsel should be permitted to give the defendants documents here in the session, even if the case, as such, has been concluded.
That is what Dr. Seidel wanted to ask you.
Mr. President, may I say something else?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Dr. Sauter? You wanted to say something more to me?
DR. SAUTER: May I point out the following: In the interrogation room down in the jail we are not allowed to hand any documents to the defendants. Thus, if I have a document then which I want to discuss with my client, I have to read all this document to him. If 10 or 12 or 15 defense counsel are down, there in the evening -
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, the Tribunal is of the opinion that any document which is handed to the defendants' counsel may be handed to the defendant: themselves by the counsel and that it does not make any difference that a particular defendant's case Has been closed with reference to that rule.
DR. SAUTER: I am very grateful to you, Mr. President. I hope that his will involve no more difficulties.
THE PRESIDENT: Well then now, you want to cross-examine Toms?
DR. SAUTER: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Is Toms here? Can he be brought here at oncce?
MR. DODD: He is on his way -- he is probably right outside the door.
THE PRESIDENT: All right Marshal, see if he is available.
MR. DODD: I have not had time, Mr. President, to have the affidavit sworn to because I have not seen the man.
THE PRESIDENT: No, but as far as his cross-examination is concerned, he can be put under oath here.
THE MARSHAL: No sir, he is not here yet.
MR. DODD: He is on his way.
THE PRESIDENT: He is not available.
MR. DODD: He is on his way. He was in Lieutenant Meltzer's office a minute ago and he went out to get him.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, he can be called then at two o'clock after the other witnesses.
Now Dr. Siemers, would you be ready?
DR. SIEMERS: Dr. Siemers, defense counsel for Grand Admiral Dr. Eric Raeder. a witness in connection with all the documents which the Prosecution submitted in the case against Raeder. I hve given all of these documents to Raeder so that he will have them with him in the witness stand in order not to lose any time by bringing each one to him separately. These documents are in part in document book number ten. The British delegation put these documents which were not yet in the document book into a new document book 10 (a). I assume that this document book is in the possession of the Tribunal.
document book 10 (a) and 10. documents from my document book connected with the case in question. Thank you. ERIC RAEDER, called as a witness, took the stand and testified as follows: BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Will you state your full name.
A. Eric Raeder.
Q. Will you repeat this oath after me: truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(Witness repeated oath)
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down. BY DR. SIEMERS:
Q. Grand Admiral Raeder, please tell the Tribunal briefly about your career?
A. I was born in 1876 in Wansbeck near Hamburg. I joined the Navy in. 1894. I became an officer in 1897. Normal advancement; two years naval academy; three months leave in each year to Russia to study languages during the Russian-Japanese War. Foreign press -- I was editor of the "Naval Review" and the "Nautikus."
1910 to 1912, Navigation Officer on the imperial yacht "Hohenzollern." 1912 to the beginning of 1918, First Admiral Staff Officer and Chief of Staff of the cruiser "Admiral Hipper."
with Admiral von Tother. For two years I wrote a naval history for the naval archives. As Rear Admiral from 1922 to 1924, inspector of training program of the Navy. 1925 to 1928 as Vice-Admiral, chief of the navy station Baltic in Kiel. appointed by President von Hindenburg at the suggestion of the Reichswehr Minister Groehner. April, 1939, I became Grand Admiral. Navy and received the title Admiral-Inspector of the Navy without being connected with any official functions.
Q. I should like to come back to one point. You said that in 1935 you became Commander-in-Chief of the Navy. This was only, if I am right, a new title, is that right?
A. It was only a new name.
Q. That is, you were head of the Navy from 1928 to 1943?
A. Yes.
Q. According to the Versaille Treaty Germany had an army of one hundred thousand men and a navy of fifteen thousand men, with one thousand five hundred officers. In proportion to the size of the Reich the Wehrmacht was extremely small. Wehrmacht, to defend herself against possible attacks by neighboring states and what dangers did Germany have to count on in the twenties?
against attacks of even the smallest states, since she had no modern weapons while the surrounding states, Poland in particular, were equipped with the most modern weapons. The modem munitions plants had also been taken away from Germany.
The danger which Germany faced in the 20's was an attack by Poland on East Prussia, in order to cut off this territory and occupy it. This was cut off from Germany by the Corridor. The danger was especially clear to Germany because at that time Wilna was occupied by the Poles, and because Lithuania had taken away the Memel area. In the south, Flume had been taken away without the League of Nations or anyone else objecting. could not be allowed to happen to Germany in that period of impotency was the occupying of East Prussia and taking it away from Germany. Our efforts were therefore aimed at organizing ourselves so that we would be able to oppose such an invasion of East Prussia by Poland. place. Was not the border crossed, in fact, on several occasions in the 20's? the military circles, but also by the Government in the 20's, especially by the Social Democrats and by Stresemann?
A Yes. I said before that the Government realized that such an invasion could not be allowed to occur. internation law and contrary to treaty in the time before Hitler.
On the 1st of October 1928 you became Chief of the Navy Command. Thus you received the highest position in the German Navy. Did you use all your efforts, in viewof the dangers described, to build up the German Navy in the framework of the Versailles Treaty in order to be able to protect East Prussia in particular?
A Yes, I used all my efforts. I considered building up the Navy my life task. In all stages of this period of construction, the reconstruction of the Navy was especially difficult, and as a result, in all these years I was constantly having to fight in one direction or another in order to put through this construction work.