Under Dr. Schidlausky it was the other way around. He wanted to take the last medicine from the prisoners to the SS Hospital. That would show the difference best.
Q How were the medicines taken from the SS hospital to the prisoners' hospital?
A Drugs and medicines you could put in your pocket sometimes. But plaster was needed, for instance, for casts, and that was not so easy to carry. That was not approved and the prisoner who carried it would be punished. There were pigs in the camp and we had to pick up the garbage. Sometimes we transferred these things carefully hidden under the garbage.
Q Please describe to the Tribunal the general conduct of the Defendant Hoven toward the prisoners, insofar as you have not already done so.
A I have already told you most of it--that the prisoners stopped Dr. Hoven and talked to him, that he had the medicine men, that he had these medical guards, and then there were other separate matters. The first Czech ambassador in Switzerland, Scrava, was a prisoner. He had a stomach tumor. Dr. Hoven learned of it and had him taken, I believe by car, to the prisoner hospital and he had me called through the public address system. He said I was to report everything that Dr. Scrava needed and we succeeded in helping Dr. Scrava to the extent that today he has taken up his position as chief editor in Prague. Such things were not exceptional. There were operations announced where the SS doctors were to come. I was to perform an abdominal operation. It was my custom and it was sensible of me to report to Dr. Hoven before every operation. I never performed an operation without the knowledge of Dr. Hoven.
Then there was an orthodox Russian, Dr. Galsky, I believe his name was Papa Andre. He had been severely mis treated by the Gestapo.
The Soviet Union at one time had concluded a peace with the Church, the Hierachy, which mostly had called emigrated people to go home to Russia. It is probably not technically possible but it was permitted then to return to Russia. When this orthodox priest, Dr. Galsky, fell into the hands of the Gestapo, he was to sign a statement of the orthodox church that he would not go to the Soviet Union. The consequences were the usual ones with the Gestapo. The prisoner came into the camp in a terrible condition. We prisoner-doctors had a certain position there. I was told quite openly by the head of the camp, that is first or second head of the camp, "You won't have this nan long." Nevertheless we succeeded in keeping Dr. Galsky alive for a long time. We were certain when he was in the hospital that Dr. Hoven would have no objections. Dr. Galsky later died because of the terrible food conditions in the camp.
Q How about the hair cutting?
A Dr. Hoven had a peculiarity. He did not like prisoners without hair but to be allowed to keep your hair, that was a very complicated matter that had to go through Berlin. But in 3 months we always had our hair. It happened to me that after a week my privilege as a protectorate prisoner was taken away from and I was me given a red triangle, as protective custody prisoner, and I had to give up my hair. It did not take long before Dr. Hoven brought me a note that was to be allowed to keep my hair. Dr. Hoven made a very difficult situation for me once. He had a professional criminal as an x-ray technician and the man had no hair at all. Dr. Hoven decided that he was to be able to wear at least what hair he had a little longer. I was supposed to sign an application that the man was to get hair.
I did not sign it. I did not quite understand how he was to do that. When I gave up this problem I saw that Dr. Hoven himself had written down that the man was suffering from a hair disease and he really got the approval. Jews also got permission from him, for instance, Jerlinek, the nurse from the tuberculosis ward, and others.
Q What do you know about Hoven's killing of professional criminals?
A I saw no such killings, either of these habitual criminals or of anyone. Certainly Hoven divided the prisoners as follows: There were decent prisoners and then there were prisoners who were not so decent. This was not the division that the SS officials made, this was a division depending on how the prisoners behaved; this was not the way Dr. Hoven classified them but the way the prisoners themselves classified the other prisoners. If I reported anything, a great deal depended on whether this prisoner I reported was a "decent" prisoner or whether he was not. The habitual criminals were part of this classification also.
DR. GAWLIK: I am just told that a change must be made in the microphone and that the meeting will be interrupted for a few minutes.
Among the habitual criminals, there were many moral offenders and they were very afraid of Dr. Hoven, But I did not see that ho ever killed a habitual criminal.
Q. What point of view did you find in the camp about the justice that the camp inmates administered themselves?
A. Self administered camp justice was a very difficult problem. I myself, as a physician, was absolutely opposed to any harm that was done to human life or health. I was a physician and my fate there was somewhat better than that of most. My stiffest opponents in this matter were precisely the old political prisoners and I cannot condemn them; sometimes they got me into very difficult situations because of my attitude. With a mass of a few thousand person there, there must have then differences of opinion among them and there wore crimes committed against the prisoners. We could not go to the SS, it was not possible.
Later when Dr. Schidlausky was in the camp, I was suddenly called away from an operation once and he told me that trouble was already beginning with the Czechs. I did not know what he was talking about, he told me I should give him an answer in two hours. I went into the camp and found out the following, a prisoner had been turned over to the camp who had accused sixteen people of our home town of Brne. I believe that ten of them were condemned to death. The relatives of these sixteen prisoners were already in the camp and they found out that this man had been brought in. They went after him, another group joined the chase and the consequence of all this was that the man died of a fractured skull. I was to initial the death certificate. I refused, however, because that death did not happen in the hospital.
Schidlausky asid he would not sign it. It was the middle of summer, the dead man had already been lying around for two days and I did not know what to do.
Now, whether it was by accident or design, there appeared in the hospital a Roman Catholic Theologian, a young fellow and a member of one of the largest orders in Czechoslovakia. Dr. Schidlausky knew this man well and sometimes, half in jest and half in earnest, would ask; "What do you say about this as a priest?" His name was Peter Kajetan Deihl. He said "I repudiate any killings, I cannot approve of that, but I bring to your attention the fact that it is a great crime on the part of the SS to leave thousands of persons without any form of administration of justice or at least with only SS administration of justice." At this time the Red Army was a long way off and it did happen that the SS hung persons, including even a physician and the man was even asked before he was hang, what he had done.
Well, to begin we had a chance to turn the man over to the SS or not to do so. This was a very dangerous business. Those who had been decontaminated and had lice removed from them, could not be penalized and it was a very difficult matter to leave so many people without any form of justice. I said before that I repudiate all Killings and I cannot understand. This was a very stricking thing to me and it was an internal problem always being discussed among us especially the illegal management of the camp and the under-ground management had its own attitude toward such killings.
For instance, in the case of a man who committed a homosexual act, he was simply killed.
Again I repudiate that, but if I go home and if a regular trial takes place on this matter, then I am convinced that for example the man, who had denounced the sixteen people to the Gestapo, ten of whom were hung, I would like to believe that before a regular Czech court he would be condemned to death.
Now, today, I would like to give my answer to that under-ground management. There is the man who perhaps is dead, out how many would have have denounced at that time had he not been killed; how many would, have died as a result of his acts if he had not been killed then.
Q. What do you know of the activities of Dr. Hoven in block 46?
A. I know this block; I spoke with Dr. Hoven and asked him what was to be done with block 46; it had been fenced off specially and I did not know at that time it was to be an experimental block where human beings were to be treated like guinea pigs. Dr. Hoven told me then that Dr. Mrugowsky wants to do something there and I did not discuss the matter further. I knew Dr. Ding at that time and that was enough for me; however, I was interested in this matter. The doctors slept in a room containing eight beds and among us there was a prisoner tailor. This man said to us, please don't give as typhus or anything of that sort. Whereupon we said of course not. He said, "I sew up clothes and the clothes are sent out to one place and another; there is no typhus there. I want to be perfectly sure I am in a perfectly clean room. In addition, Dr. Hoven comes to us so often, if he comes so often the clothes must be hygienic." Also there was a shoe repair shop. We could not go around in the operating. -5261 room in wooden shoes and there were no soles in the camp.
I, was usual, simply turned to Dr. Hoven with the request for soles and received them from block 46, so I assume there was a shoe repair shop there also. Whether Dr. Hoven worked on the typhus experiments, I do not know as I was never in block 46.
Q. What do you know about Dr. Hoven's activities in block 50?
A. That was the vaccine production Institute of the Waffen SS. The origin of this institute with its proud name did not get to Buchenwald by accident. The SS doctors were changed, the situation among the prisoners was uncertain, there was a commando or detail on which the prisoners could be put away.
Long before the detail was founded, Dr. Hoven told us that it is possible that a hygienic institute would be set up in Buchenwald. This would perhaps do something among the lines of producing vaccines against typhus and he told us that he would have preliminary discussions concerning this in Berlin and again he mentioned the name Mrugowsky. After awhile Dr. Hoven came back and said that the institute would be set up. We were not serologists, we did not know anything about this business and it was a pretty important matter. We had heard that Dr. Ding would take it over and Dr. Ding was a man of varying moods. Then, we were finally sure that the institute would be there. We were interested because we know that the SS would not make the vaccines. Then, Dr. Hoven told us that no one knew that and, he knew of no one who could come from Mauthausen at the time. I was there in Mauthausen and there was a Czech serologist, a University Professor from Brno, by the name of Thomaschek.
I told this to Dr. Hoven, who jotted down the name, but Thomaschek did not come at first and came only later. After the liberation we found out that he had been taken from Mauthausen from Berlin and sent to Auschwitz.
In Auschwitz he was also under the charge of a seriologist but the general situation in Auschwitz was much worse than it was in Buchenwald, so we merely did him harm by making this request for him. Well, the detail was set up and was called Block 50. Inmates were housed there, particularly Nacht and Nebel prisoners, Dutchmen, by the name of Biek, Robert, and many others. There were Jews. It was also a risk to send them there. Professor Fleck was one of them from the University of Lemberg, one of the best men in typhus research in eastern Europe; and Ding was chief.
Now, everyone was afraid of what would happen if Dr. Ding was in a bad mood, and everybody said that all of a sudden what would happen would be that the detail would be shifted to 46. Thus I can very well remember that these prisoners negotiated with Dr. Hoven or at least pointed out to him that either Block 50 should be subordinate to the Standort physician or Dr. Hoven would have to appoint somebody in charge of the personnel there. This took a lot of weight off everyone's mind in the camp, that is, that Dr. Hoven was Ding's deputy for Block 50.
Q. I come now to a different point. Were you the liaison man between the Czechoslovakina prisoners and Dr. Hoven?
A. Yes, I was one of the liaison men.
Q. Were you also a member of the underground camp management?
A. No, these differences of opinion regarding camp justice prevented that.
Q. What was your activity as liaison man for the Czech prisoners?
A. The following: We had been taken over into the Protectorate by Hitler. It didn't cost him anything to call a part of the prisoners honorary prisoners, and these honorary prisoners had certain privileges. One of these privileges was that now and then such a prisoner was freed. Now, Dr. Hoven always went immediately and said, "I can release about three people. Write me out three certificates." When we asked him which prisoners he wanted to have freed, he said, "Well, you talk it over in your Czech block and decide." In other words, this was done in a very democratic way.
We decided who was in greatest need of being set free. We talked this over and then I went back to Hoven and told Hoven that such and such a man would be a good man to set free. Such requests were what I took care of as liaison man.
Q. Did you frequently turn to Dr. Hoven with requests on the part of other inmates?
A. No, I have to correct you. There was something of an official system among the inmates. Everyone had access to Dr. Hoven regularly. Thus regularly we made requests. It was not a matter simply of requests but of suggestions, and all this was done very regularly.
Q. Did it ever happen that Dr. Hoven refused a proposal that you made in behalf of the prisoners?
A. We made several justifiable requests of Dr. Hoven, but these more serious questions, particularly medical matters, were all reported to Dr. Hoven and I cannot recall that any one of them was ever refused.
Q. At what time did the defendant Hoven help the prisoners?
A. I have already said that Dr. Hoven did already at the point when Germany was being most successful in the war, even then Hoven often helped the prisoners.
Q. In connection with this testimony I show you again Schalker's testimony from Document NO-1063, Exhibit Number 328, Page 14 of the English and 16 of the German translation. I quote verbatim what Schalker said, "Later, when it was almost certain that Germany would lose, he did many good things."
Now, in view of this testimony, I ask you again, did the defendant Hoven do good things for the inmates only after it became clear that Germany was going to lose the war?
A. I have already testified and I reiterate.
Q. What do you know about the prevention of "Nacht and Nebel" transports through Dr. Hoven?
A. We knew if something was done in the political department or if something concerned either us as individuals or as groups. First of all Dr. Hoven succeeded in relieving some prisoners from service in the political department.
From the Czechs, the present Landesminister Dr. Dolansky, he brought us a number of things. But Dr. Hoven was a very precise informant, and so he came to us once with the news that there existed an N.N. commando. We didn't know what that meant, and we were told that it meant "Nacht and Nebel". We heard from Dr. Hoven that this was a horrible commando in Natzweiler, consisting mainly of Norwegians, and from the camp particularly Dutchmen were sent to the Nacht and Nebel commandos.
There were a few nurses among these Dutchmen, Masseur, Robert, then the well-known painter Piek, but there were also prisoners of whom the illegal camp management had said that they should stay in the camp. With this matter also recourse was taken to Dr. Hoven. Thus the camp management could not put prisoners at the disposal of N und N, and thus it was good not to get in touch with prisoners if they were a part of that commando. If they were in Block 50, they could be kept from being shipped to Natzweiler to the Nacht and Nebel commando.
Q. Do you know of other transports which Dr. Hoven prevented?
A. I can only tell you the broad outlines. Once a transport was standing outside the hospital with a few hundred persons, including all the old German political prisoners, Czechs of all professions, ministers, university professors, workers, members of parliament, and so on. I was quite sure that this commando could not go off if Dr. Hoven had not seen the commando. It was to be transferred somewhere to the north to Magdeburg, I believe, Magdeburg, Belsen. I sent someone out to Dr. Hoven's house with the request that he come to the camp. This was late afternoon. Dr. Hoven did come and immediately sent the transport back into the camp and said he wanted to examine the prisoners. Later we worked things out so that we could save the majority of the prisoners. We knew that this was an extermination commando because these were really weak persons and invalids.
Q Can you tell the court the number of people who were saved by Hoven from this transport?
A With the Germans, Czechs, a few hundred prisoners, it might have been two-hundred.
Q Who had ordered this extermination, the commando?
A That was certainly on the transport from the camp management, it was certainly a RSHA transport.
Q Can you give the Court the names of a few persons whom Dr. Hoven saved from this transport to Madgeburg-Belsen?
AAll professions hero were represented, senators, ministers, representatives, all sorts of persons who were in this transport. Dr. Hoven did not concern himself with the names.
Q Can you tell the Court about the release of members of United Nations, which Dr. Hoven brought about?
A Of the United Nation, not too many of the United Nations came into question here. It was out of the question to send a Pole home, so any questions comes only of Dutchmen and with Czechs at this time. Later, French and others were included. Among the Dutch, whatever happened about that, that took place at the time after I was in the camp, and so far as Czechs are concerned, from time to time three, four or five were freed, as I have already described, but Germans also were set free, as one or two always being let out from time to time. I have described those events already.
Q Please describe to the Tribunal how the defendant Hoven opposed the measures of RSHA?
A The general rule was the beating of prisoners, and the SS gave them beatings; so all of a sudden a prisoner was told that he would receive twenty-five strokes, but this verdict had to be approved by the management, officially by the RSHA. Prisoners were so beaten that whole pieces of flesh were torn from their body; I have seen cases where the leg bone could be seen, or bone of the leg could be seen, and this affected all sorts of prisoners, whether they were habitual criminals, or any other kind.
Those were all taken to the hospital and treated. I can even remember a political prisoner from Bremen who simply could not stand to receive a beating of fifty strokes, so this beating was carried out under the supervision of a doctor. He was kept for months in a hospital, and I believe that the matter was sort of forgotten, because the camp commander who had brought this case up was relieved, and the man was then spared receiving the rest of his beating. Then he was reassured that in that connection he would not be beaten to death. Then there was the question of the Jews. The Jews were simply loaded into trucks, and disappeared, and a couple of days later people came and told us to take their names from the file index. These were transports in which there were never any medical examination to see if a person was fit to travel, whether they were seriously ill, or healthy. I believe this was the transport at the beginning of 1942 in which Jews were to be sent away on masse. They were all loaded on stretchers in the hospital, but as soon as they get around the corner, they took them off the stretchers, and disposed of them in another way. I myself intervened for a Jew named Cohen. He was sent from Czechoslovakia to Buchenwald, from the prison window I could see his wife with a newly born child in her arms, that from my window, and this sight of this woman so moved me, and I took what effort I could to help him. Cohen was carried around the corner like the others, I think that was the result of haying him freed. But this was in opposition to the RSHA, and then there were activities with the Nacht and Nebel prisoners. Then there was also individual actions. A young metal worker by the name of Stari, who is still alive today and in Freiburg, in a restaurant poked out Hitler's eyes in a picture, and he was brought to camp in a terrible condition. He was a good worker, and he was put to work in a quarry, but simply had sharpened the instruments in the quarry, and the leadership wanted him to stay there. One day after Hoven came and said, "Do you know Stari," I knew that story, and I said, "Yes, I did." Then Dr. Hoven said, "Things are not going too well with that man, we must take Stari into the hospital." a few days later he was called to the door, and either I or someone else was to examine him, and an answer came that he was sick, and then this was done, and in this way the man's life was saved.
This was also a measure taken against the RSHA. There was also an affair that concerned me. I was known in my region in Czechoslovakia, and this was the only case in which a representative of the Kreisleitung came to a camp to take a look at the situation. It was quite clear that he had come for that reason, to see to it that all possible measures were taken against me. At that time I was not present, and he really believed that these measures really were carried out, but these are not shown, and specific cases that occurred, and this to me, is one of Hoven's activities against the RSHA.
THE PRESIDENT: It will be necessary to suspend the examination of this witness at this time until tomorrow morning.
The Tribunal has considered the objection on the part of the Prosecution to the calling of the witnesses Topf and Borkenau on behalf of the defendant Sievers. These witnesses were applied for by the counsel for the defendant Sievers, sometime ago, and an order was entered by the Tribunal that the witnesses be called. This order was entered without any objection on the part of the Prosecution. The Prosecution, however, this morning moved that the witnesses be not called on the grounds that the statements made concerning their testimony were beyond the legitimate field of inquiry for the Tribunal. The Tribunal has examined the applications for the witnesses, and the memorandum filed today of Dr. Weisgerber, attorney for the defendant Sievers. The Tribunal is of the opinion that the testimony which counsel for the defendant Sievers proposes to elicit of these witnesses is within the field of competency before the Tribunal, and that the testimony may be appropriate to be heard before the Tribunal. The order is then signed by the Tribunal directing the witnesses be called. The order being dated February 4th, last, will be carried out.
The Tribunal will now recess until 9:30 o'clock tomorrow morning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 1 April 1947 at 0930 hours)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America against Karl Brandt, et al, defendants, sitting at Nuernberg, Germany, on 1 April 1947, 0930, Justice Beals presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats. The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal I. Military Tribunal I is now in session. God save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal. There will be order in the courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Marshal, you ascertain that the defendants are all present in court.
THE MARSHAL: May it please your Honor, all the defendants are present in the court.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary General will note for the record the presence of all the defendants in court.
DR. WIDESLAV HORN - Resumed
THE PRESIDENT: Have any of the defense counsel questions to propound to this witness?
BY DR. GAWLIK (Counsel for the defendant Waldemar Hoven):
Q. Doctor, please describe Hoven's attitude and behavior toward the Poles.
A. Despite the fact that the Poles were in a much worse situation than we were, I never saw that Dr. Hoven behaved otherwise to the Poles than to the others. The best example is the so-called Germanization of the Poles. The Poles who worked in Germany and who had sexual relations with German women were brought to the camp and were hanged. After a certain length of time a regulation appeared which said that suitable Poles could be Germanized. The Germanization consisted of an anatomical examination where the persons were measured all over the heads, their feet, their mouths, their noses. They were given intelligence tests, a certificate was written out, and then the Poles were released and some of them were inducted into the Wehrmacht. Thus, the examination to which they were subjected actually saved their lives. Dr. Hoven usually left this examination up to us non-German doctors and please observe that we were doctors who did not even understand so-called racial medicine, ethnic medicine.
We wrote up the examination and the persons were thereupon Germanized. In this way a few Poles were saved.
Q. Can you describe to the Tribunal measures through which the defendant Hoven protected Czech citizens?
A. Dr. Hoven was in touch with the Czechs largely in connection with the protectorate action. This was the action in which the Gestapo in a few days disposed of a few hundred Czech intelligentsia and workers and sent them to a concentration camp after the 1st of December 1939; in other words, right at the beginning of the war. This group of persons was, to be sure, called an honorable group of prisoners or hostages. They were allowed to keep their hair and they could write home every week, but in this whole Nazi system there was nothing legal and nothing was secure, certain. After a short period of time these prisoners also were given hard labor.
It is a sad thing when an official who sat at his desk for twenty years all of a sudden has to work in a garden. These again were ministers, senators, representatives, leading personages in political life who simply were not able to stand this work without doing themselves serious physical damage.
There was in the camp a so-called stocking repair shoe where stockings could be patched but it was no secret that this stockingmending department was only for the very old inmates who had been in the camp a few months ago. Dr. Hoven formed a branch of this stockingmending section where he employed all the older Czech inmates who weren't able to do physical labor, including Dr. Senker, mayor of Prague and representative of our prime minister, and many others.
In another institution which Dr. Hoven instituted was the so-called Race Research Commando (Ahnenforschungskommando). The SS wanted research carried out as to heredity as far back as the 17th century. It was no easy matter to find these documents. Moreover, the officers of the SS needed crests. They were the new Nazi aristocracy, and since Dr. Hoven had found among the Czechs an expert in heraldry, he formed a team which accommodated many of our painters and other persons.
This team became more important later.
These were the generous measures that Dr. Hoven took to assist Czech citizens.
Q. What was the SS Camp Administration's behavior toward the Czech inmates after Heydrich's death in May, 1942, and what did Hoven then do?
A. The days after Heydrich was killed were the most difficult days that we Czech inmates in Buchenwald went through. We heard from the SS various theories as to how the Czech nation should be handled. We heard it stated that 1939 was the end of the Czech state and 1949 would be the end of the Czech nation. In this difficult and dangerous atmosphere the news arrived of Heydrich's assination. It is certain that the RSHA had already taken measures in Czechoslovakia because of this, but in various camps we heard that the camp management, on its own initiative, had also taken measures against Czechs. This attitude on the part of the commandant and the Gestapo chief in the camp was a very important matter. On the same day, in the afternoon, when we were waiting to find out what would happen to us, Dr. Hoven came and said: "The political department is quiet", and repeatedly thereafter every day we received such news from Dr. Hoven, and we were assured that neither the Gestapo chief nor the camp commander, on his own initiative, would take measures against us Czech inmates in Buchenwald. Very much happened then which indicated Hoven's attitude towards us Czechs because, in general, we were regarded by the Nazis as an altogether inferior nation occupying a rank just above the Jews. It was not just an SS man or a group, but rather the whole SS was in contact with us and they said to us: "What need do we have for you eight million people. We simply have to exterminate two million, deport two million, and four million that are left, they are then ripe for denaturalization." Dr. Hoven pointed out that the Czech doctors could be used for something, we treated the Fuhrer. Dr. Hoven showed also that in other sectors the camp administration had found ways of using Czechs and all political parties in Czechoslovakia were clear that Dr. Hoven was playing an important role in our behalf in this matter.
Q. How great was the number of Jewish steady inmates in Buchenwald when Hoven took over in September, 1943?
A. What do you mean by steady Jewish inmates?
Q. I do not refer to those who came in later but to those who were always there.
A. These were Jews who simply said that they were masons by trade and thus saved their lives. Also there were Jews in the sick bay detail and in Barracks 50, the vaccination barracks. I should estimate that they were between two hundred and three hundred. There could have been more.
Q. And what do you know about the fact that these steady Jewish inmates were saved by the defendant Hoven?
A. When it was said that the Jews should be removed from the camp it was pointed out, from the statistics of the camp, that there were no masons there. Then the suggestion was made that the Jews who were capable of work should be examined and put in that commando. Thus, many persons were certified by Hoven as masons. These Jews were certified as masons and were used as masons and, in this way, most of them were saved. Those were the two hundred or three hundred Jews I mentioned later.
Q. And what further measures did the defendant. Hoven take to save Jews? Where else did he accommodate Jews?
A. I have already said - in Block 50 and in the hospital.
Q. Were the prisoners interested in seeing to it that Hoven remained in the camp?
A. The old inmates, who had been there for a long time, or inmates who had something to do with the camp administration who knew Hoven's discrimination between decent and non-decent prisoners - they were interested in seeing to it that Hoven remained in the camp.
Q. Why did these inmates want Hoven to stay in the camp?
A. It was never known who his successor would be or how he would behave. By that time, our attachment to Dr. Hoven was too great and I point out this business with the Nacht und Nebel action. If Dr. Hoven had not been in the camp, the Dutchmen would have disappeared without our knowing where they went.
Q. Were the inmates also interested in having Dr. Hoven take over the management of Block 50?
A. I described that yesterday.
Q. Did the defendant Hoven only help inmates when he had some personal advantage from it?