Q. Would you considered it careless or irresponsible if such a new vaccine were used, relying on the statements made by the producing firm about compatibility, without testing the new vaccine in any Arm on a small group?
A. That would depend on who produced it. If it was a well known firm whose reliability had been proved, I would not consider such a test necessary. In other cases, yes.
DR. FLEMING: Thank you. I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Is there any further examination of this witness by any defense counsel? There being none, the Prosecution may cross examine.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY DR. McHANEY:
Q. Witness, let's get a bit better idea of your position in the medical service of the army. To whom were you directly subordinated?
A. I was directly subordinate to Professor Schreiber.
Q. And who did you have working under you?
A. Under mo, Dr. Scholz, who was mentioned before, and Later after Dr. Scholz went into the field there was Dr. Keller, Dr. Peetschke, and a pharmacist, Dr. Lehmann, the latter only to a limited extent.
Q. What problems -- medical problems --were you particularly concerned with between the years '40 and '44?
A. I was only there until the year '44 in the medical inspectorate, 1940 to 1944. The main problem was the production of typhus vaccines and methods of combatting lice.
Q What sort of contact did you have with Handloser? Was it frequent and of a personal character?
A. No. Professor Handloser was my supreme superior, I made no direct reports to him, only later when Professor Schreiber was changed as section chief, and the new section chief was not a hygienist. Then I reported directly to Professor Handloser after reporting to the chief of staff.
Q. When did this changed occur? When did you start reporting directly to Handloser?
A. Unfortunately I do not know the date when Professor Schreiber left the Army Medical Inspectorate, and I don't think I can find it here. But that can probably be found in the records.
Q. Do you remember when Schreiber left the Army Medical Inspectorate?
A. No, I do not remember the year.
A Why did he leave? Do you know?
A. Professor Schreiber became commanding officer of Instruction Group "C" of the Military Medical Academy, and at the same time he became a member of the Reich Research Council.
Q. That doesn't mean that he left the Army Medical Inspectorate, if he became instructor of the Military Medical Academy, does it?
A. Yes, these are two quite separate agencies. The Military Medical Academy was an agency under the Army Medical Inspectorate. In order to become commanding officer of the instruction group he had to resign from the Medical Inspectorate.
Q. But the Military Medical Academy was subordinated to the Army Medical Inspectorate, was it not?
A. Yes, that is true, but Professor Schreiber was not directly under the Army Medical Inspectorate. But he was under the commander of the academy and he was under the Medical Inspectorate.
Q. Isn't it true that certain hygienists in Germany hold the opinion that animal experimentation with typhus is not efficacious because of the fact that 40%, roughly of the experimental animals have resistance to the disease?
A. I know nothing of this opinion. The vaccines were tested in the state institute for experimental therapy in Frankfurt. We had nothing to be with the methods used.
Q. Witness, are you swearing to this Tribunal that you have never read in any medical journal published in Germany, or have never heard from any report, that the opinion was held by certain hygienists that animal experimentation with typhus was not too good, not too reliable, because a good percentage of the animals had resistance to the disease? Are you swearing that you have never heard of that opinion, read any reports about it, or read any articles in medical journals?
A. In this form, in my opinion, that is net true. The method of testing in the state institute was questioned by various agencies, but not the fact that such tests can be conducted on animals at all.
Q. Witness, I don't think you have answered the question. Is there any scientific opinion that animal experimentation with typhus is not reliable? Now answer yes or no.
A. I do not know of this opinion.
Q. Then if the Defendant Karl Brant expressed such an pinion to this Tribunal, he didn't know what he was talking about? He advised the Tribunal that he thought it was probably as necessary to experiment on human beings with typhus as it is with malaria. That is not your opinion?
A. It is not my opinion that typhus experiments must be conducted on human beings.
Q Do you know whether certain experimental animals have resistance typhus? Is it customary that often they do?
A In guinea pigs--and these are the animals concerned--there are certain difficulties, since in series of experiments the guinea gigs sometimes without being infected with typhus, have increased temperatures, but for this purpose a large number are taken to eliminate such inaccuracies.
Q Criticisms were levelled at the experimental methods of the institute at Frankfurt that you have already mentioned?
A Industry sometimes questioned these testing methods, since industry itself called the vaccine good while the state institute said that it was less effective, and we therefore rejected it. This was the vaccine that I mentioned before.
Q Well, you mentioned something about this Bearing Works, the vaccine produced by their institute at Marburg being made from the embryo in a chicken egg. You weren't speaking about their total production, were you? They did produce vaccines developed from the egg yolk, didn't they?
A Yes, there arc two methods of reduction. In the first place the embryo is used. Then a much larger quantity of vaccine is obtained. In the second place the embryo is net used. In our opinion this produced a more effective but a smaller quantity. We used only this latter type without the use of the embryo on the basis of the recommendation of the state institute.
Q Well, I don't think you want to leave the impression with the Tribunal that the Army Medical Inspectorate was rejecting all of the typhus vaccine produced by the Bearing Works. That is not true, is it?
A No, I did not say that. I say only that there were two vaccines from the Bearing Works. One vaccine was quite good, and another using the embryo, which we rejected on the basis of this opinion, which was considered less effective, and we did not use it.
Q Do you know a man named Eugen Hagen?
A Yes.
Q He held, the same opinion that you did about this typhus vaccine produced from the chicken embryo. He went so far as to write a letter objecting to it. Do you knew anything about that?
A No.
Q What contacts did you have with Hagen?
A I had no contacts with him at all. I met him on some occasion since I was a hygienist. I know that he was a professor at Strassburg.
Q You knew he was working on typhus vaccines, didn't you?
A When he was at the Robert Koch Institute he was working on the virus field.
Q Didn't you know that he continued his vaccine experiments, typhus vaccine experiments, after he left the Robert Koch Institute at Strassburg?
A No.
Q You have never been to Strassburg to see him?
A No.
Q Did you usually attend the meetings of the consulting physicians of the army?
A I attended a few meetings, but not all of them.
Q Which ones did you attend?
A I cannot say for certain. I don't know any mere which specific meetings I attended.
Q There were about five, witness. Can't you remember which ones you attended?
A I remember that I did not attend a meeting at Hohen-Luechen.
Q Well, did you attend all of them at the Military Medical Academy where you were working?
A No, not all of them. The whole personnel of the Inspectorate couldn't leave for days. I did not attend the whole meetings. I attended parts of the
THE PRESIDENT: It is now 12:30 o'cl.ck. The Tribunal will recess until 1:30 o'clock.
(A recess was taken until 1330 hours.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DR SEIDEL: (Counsel for the defendant Herta Oberhauser). Mr. President, the defendant Dr. Herta Oberhauser asks in view of her situation of health to be absent from this session after 3 o'clock. The Prison Physician will submit a medical certificate to the Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT?: The defendant Oberhauser may be excused after the afternoon recess upon filing a certificate from tho Prison Physician.
BY MR. MC HANEY:
Q Witness, can you tell us definitely of any of the meetings of the Consulting Physicians which you remember having attended?
A I cannot tell that for certain since I only attended individual meetings of the Consulting Physicians, which included about a hundred lectures.
Q Do you possibly remember having attended the meeting of May 1943 at the Military Medical Academy in Berlin?
A During that time, I was in Berlin, It is quite possible that I attended this meeting, at least I may have attended some of the lectures.
Q I assume you attended the lectures concerning hygienic problems?
A That may be. I couldn't tell you that for certain.
Q Well, did you usually attend the meetings where the surgeons were holding forth?
A No, I attended meetings of interest to physicians and hygienists.
Q Do you possibly remember at that meeting in May 1943, at the Hygienic Section, that Doctor Ding made a talk on his Typhus experiments?
A I did not listen to any lecture made by Dr. Ding at any time.
Q When did you first meet Ding?
A I cannot remember that.
Q You do not remember when you first met Dr. Ding?
A No, it was on some occasion in Berlin, but I don't know exactly when.
Q I take it you met him then before your trip to Buchenwald in February 1943?
A Yes. I met him before.
Q Do you remember the occasion of your having met him. Did you have any business with him?
A No, I cannot tell you that.
Q Do you know what Ding was doing?
A I only know that he belonged to the collaborators of Professor Mrugowsky.
Q Do you know that he was working in Buchenwald after you first met him?
A No, I didn't know that.
Q How many times did you see him later? Did you have frequent contacts with him?
A No, I only met him on one or two occasions at tho most. I had no personnal contacts with him at all.
Q Did you have any contacts with Mrugwsky?
A Yes, in so far as hygienic problems arose since part of the Waffen-SS was subordinated under the Army. I reported about that before.
Q How frequently did you have contact with Mrugowsky?
A Very rarely, he only telephoned me maybe once or twice a year. At any rate, very, very, rarely.
Q Did you over consult with him concerning Typhus problems?
A No.
Q Do you know that they had a Typhus producing establishment at Buchenwald?
A No, I only found that out here.
Q I suppose you know Dr. Weigl?
A A Professor Weigl. Yes I saw him once when he visited Cracow.
Q As a matter of fact, wasn't he working for the Army, Dr. Weigl?
A Professor Weigl was working as a bacteriologist in the Institute for Typhus Research in Cracow or Lemberg. The methods he used for the production of vaccines was taken over by us.
Q Well, but he was attached to and working for the Army, wasn't he in 1941 and 1942?
A Yes, he was a civilian employee, so to speak.
Q And, the Army made him available to the Behring Works now plant at Lemberg didn't they?
A No, the Wehrmacht made him available, as I said before, for the institution of a Typhus vaccination production of the industry, that is to say, Behring Works, only in order to increase production and in order to teach them of the technics which he developed.
Q That is what I said, the Army made Weigl available to the Behring Works so they could start a producing plant at Lemberg; that is right isn't it?
A Yes.
Q When did this production plant at Lemberg begin its operations? When did it actually get into Typhus vaccine production?
A I believe no production of any amount came about since the technical installations brought about some technical difficulties, since no actual production could come about. At any rate, I never heard that we received any Typhus vaccines from them for the purpose of the Army.
Q Don't you remember, roughly, when they actually began operations? You remember that the plant hadn't been built at the first part of 1941. Now, don't you remember when they actually, formally opened the Behring Works at Lemberg?
A No I don't remember that. You see, we didn't receive our vaccines from here, and therefore, didn't know from what production agency of the Behring Works this vaccine came.
Q You just turned Weigl over to them and forget about it; is that right?
A No, I didn't know how long Weigl had worked there. I only know that Weigl was made available by us in order to work there with this institution.
It was not my task to send Weigl there or call him back. I had nothing to do with that.
Q You don't remember having attended the opening of the Behring Works? They had a bit of a celebration there late in 1942. You were not there?
A No, I was not there.
Q And you don't even know when they started producing typhus vaccine there; all you know is that they were very much interested in typhus vaccine production. Is that right?
A No, I don't remember these details. As I said before, it was because we didn't know whether it was delivered to us by the Behring Works. I only know that no substantial quantities came from there which we were to use.
Q If you got any Weigl vaccine from the Behring Works, you certainly knew it came from that plant in Lemberg because that was the only place they were producing the Weigl vaccine, except in the two OKH Institutes; is that right?
A I didn't quite understand that.
Q I said if you got any Weigl vaccine from the Behring Works or anything else you knew it had to come from the Behring Works in Lemberg because there was only three places in all of Germany and I think in all of Europe producing the Weigl vaccine; one of them was the OKH Institute at Cracow, the OKH Institute at Lemberg, and the Behring Works at Lemberg, three places?
A That is quite correct, but I had no list at all about the amounts of vaccine or the way the vaccine was produced. It was not my task, you see. The vaccine was distributed by the main medical supply office. We in the Medical Inspectorate only dealt with the question of whether somebody will get vaccine or not, but not what kind of vaccine they were to get; so, I know nothing about the amount of vaccines. I only know what amounts were available on the basis of the list which I received from the Chief Medical Supply Officer, but I certainly didn't know anything of the details, that was not my task.
Q Did you control the allocation of Typhus vaccines for the Wehrmacht?
A With reference to the vaccines which we received ourselves, it was distributed by us to the various Wehrmacht branches according to the size of the epidemic, and the amount of people that were there. Are you referring to an investigation of vaccine, maybe I don't understand you correctly.
Q No, I should think there would have been a central agency in Germany which was advised about the production of vaccine, who was producing it and how much. I should also think that this agency would have control over the allocation of that production, so much allocated to this group and so much to that group; is that right?
A We didn't know what amounts these works were producing, but we only know what amounts we received, and they were then distributed. I didn't know whether the Behring Works distributed any of their vaccines to the civilian sector, for instance; so, we were not justified in approaching the Behring Works and asking them what amount of vaccines they were producing. So, there wasn't any real control.
Q What about the production of the Robert Koch Institute? Did you have any control of that?
A. No, the Robert Koch Institute delivered their vaccines for the civilian sector. It may be at the beginning they sent us a few liters of vaccine but it didn't amount to anything much.
Q Well, witness, we have a letter here which I think is from Gildemeister, dated January, 1943, in reply to a letter which was sent to him by Handloser, in which he was directed not to distribute any typhus vaccine to any branch of the Wehrmacht. It all had to be sent to him or to his Medical Supply Officer, and moreover Gildemeister gave him a report on the production of the Robert Koch Institute.
A The individual Wehrmacht branches were always trying to get vaccines through deviating channels since they were not satisfied with the distribution and in this way a Wehrmacht branch may have approached the Robert Koch Institute. That is quite possible.
Q Witness, about these lice which went to Buchenwald. There were only three places where Buchenwald could have easily obtained lice. As I see it one place was Eyer's Institute in Krakow, and the other place was the OKH Institute in Lemberg and the third place was the Behring Works in Lemberg, only three concerns in all Europe, making Weigl vaccine from the intestines of lice and only three agencies with typhus infected lice readily available, now how can you swear to this Tribunal that Ding didn't get his lice from Eyer?
A I didn't quite understand you. Who is supposed to receive these lice from Eyer?
Q Dr. Ding at Buchenwald.
AAs I said before, that the camp of Buchenwald did not receive any lice from professor Eyer since otherwise I or the Medical Inspectorate would have learned about that situation or we would have been asked for permission. I explained that before, so the vaccine of the OKH cannot be included. In this case there only remains the Behring Works in Lemberg. It may be the Behring Works in Marburg for instance had some lice. I don't know about that.
Q Where did the Behring Works in Lemberg get their lice from, from Weigl when he came over from Eyer's Institute?
A I don't know that. Lice are all ever the world. One only has to have lice suck on any typhus diseased person in order to get such lice, that is all that is necessary.
Q That may be true, witness, but suppose you tell us how many places in Germany were in the business of cultivating typhus infected lice?
A Wherever typhus occurred.
Q Now, witness, you aren't suggesting to go around and look for typhus infected lice, are you, I mean that we should get lice and feed them typhus infected blood, that isn't the way to do that. In other words, how many places in Germany were actually cultivating typhus infected lice, any place besides the OKU in Krakow, the OKU in Lemberg, and the Behring Works in Lemberg. Those are the only three places, isn't that right?
A Yes, they are the only places where lice were cultivated, but you can always build up such a breeding place where you want to.
Q Now I think you told Mrugowsky's attorney that the typhus vaccine situation was so critical in the latter part of 1941, that you only had enough vaccine to innoculate doctors and nurses and other people who were in very exposed places, is that right?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q I, therefore, assume that typhus vaccine must have been allocated with considerable care, is that right?
A Yes, according to the demands of the individual Wehrmacht branches, who naturally had to take all responsibility for these demands. We didn't know anything about the situation.
Q. For instance, if the Waffen SS said then, "we need 100 litres", you just sat back in your chair and said: Okeh, give them 100 litres," and shipped it off to. "Dr. Genzken ever here and didn't pay any attention to what he did with it, is that right?
A. Whenever, the Wehrmacht branch demanded a certain amount of "X" vaccine then we tried to find out whether we had a sufficient amount of vaccine and we distributed the vaccine in accordance with what was available. We distributed it to the Medical Supply Office of that Wehrmacht Branch and that concluded our task.
Q. Witness, I am interested, in knowing how Dr. Ding on the 5th of January, 1942, six days after the meeting on the 29th of December 1941, at which your man Scholz attended, had obtained a sufficient amount of Weigl vaccine to start an experiment, during the course of which he artificially infected a substantial group of people?
A. If we were concerned with the Weigl vaccine it must have come from the main medical supply office from the Waffen SS. When this occurred we couldn't know because we didn't know when the chief medical supply office delivered these vaccines to their group of branches.
Q. Now, nobody go t any of this vaccine except front line troops, did they And you didn't have enough to innoculate the troops? You could just give it to doctors and nurses, couldn't you? Now you tell me you delivered a substantial amount of this vaccine to the SS in Berlin and then forgot about it?
A. We assumed that the SS in the very same way would use that vaccine as it was done by the other Wehrmacht branches, that is to say, give it to the physicians, to the nurses and to the medical personnel.
Q. Now , in view of the critical shortage of typhus vaccine late in 1941, what did you do about remedying the situation?
A. The army Medical Inspectorate, as I mentioned before, tried to interest industry in the production of vaccines. We mentioned that before.
Q. Didn't you fellow that situation pretty carefully. Wasn't the Army going to be a customer of the pharmaceutical industry too?
A. The industry up to that moment obviously had no great interest in the production of vaccine, and it is a matter of course that this was a question of business for industry, and the production of the typhus vaccine is very expensive, and that could have been the reason why industry was not very interested in this matter.
A. Why did you send your man Scholz to this meeting on December 29, 1941?
A. I don't know what you mean by that, Mr. Prosecutor. I didn't send him anywhere.
Q. Witness, you have been shown a document by Dr. Nelte concerning a meeting held in the Ministry of the Interior on the 29th of December 1941, at which typhus production and typhus vaccine testing was under discussion, and that the representative of the Army was there, and his name was Scholz, and you were his immediate superior. For what purpose was Scholz sent to this meeting?
A. I have already said that I didn't send this man there but that this man represented me during by vacation. Of course, I didn't send him to that meeting. I wasn't there to do that.
Q. What was the Army doing there? Why were they interested?
A. According to that invitation I think we are concerned with an invitation of the Reich Minister of the Interior, and circles interested in the production of typhus vaccines were invited, among them the Army Medical Inspectorate, whose representative Dr. Scholz was.
A. Do you remember having received any report on this meeting? What transpired there?
A. I have already said that I was informed about this meeting by Dr. Scholz but I don't remember the report itself. It is very improbable that I read it myself.
Q. Witness, paragraph B in there says something about testing these egg yolk vaccines and somebody has to see Mrugowsky about Denmitz, didn't somebody have something to say about that?
A. I cannot remember these details. I am sure he must have reported that to me. We are very concerned with a Dr. Denmitz, who was representative of the industry and who was to visit Dr. Mrugowsky, but we are not concerned with a member of the Medical Inspectorate.
Q. Witness, to get it rather narrowly now, the whole purpose of contacting Mrugowsky was to test this egg yolk vaccine, of which you were afraid, You had confidence only in the Weigl vaccine. I think the army as a whole her great interest in the egg yolk vaccines produced by the Behring Works at Marburg and by the Robert Koch Institute in Berlin. Now, didn't they tell you about that?
A. They told me that the Behring works, as before, insisted that this vaccine which we refused because of its late effectiveness, had been proved successful after their investigation and from that, in my opinion, the note in this document can be explained, where it says that any other party which was not interested, like industry, would have to test this vaccine.
Q. Witness, you see it is not quite so simple because only six days later, January 6, 1942, Dr. Ding in Buchenwald started testing this egg yolk vaccine.
That was the whole purpose of starting the experiments in Buchenwald on living human beings, during the course of which several hundreds of them were killed; that was the very purpose of the Buchenwald experiments to test this egg yolk vaccine. I am suggesting to you the army was very much interested in the testing of this vaccine and that you very well knew they were going to test it at Buchenwald. Isn't that true?
A. No. I must deny that very energetically. I understand this note as I said before by knowing that this is merely an investigation of the vaccine in an animal experiment. I am not convinced at all that any such vaccination on the human being would bring about a result which was of any value, for in this case, for ope can never imitate the biological conditions which apply to the human beings so that to get a biological experiment the result, in my opinion, would be of no value at all.
Q. Do I understand you to state the typhus experiments on human beings are of no value?
A. According to my opinion they are at least of no importance. I cannot explain any importance at all. Personally, I think they are of no value.
Q. I am sure that it will be of interest to Dr. Ding. Now, let's go back to your visit to Buchenwald in February 1943. Just exactly whey, again, did you go there with Dr. Eyer?
A. Initially I said I stated that the question was to send a commission of physicians there to show them how the typhus vaccine was prepared and in order to show them how the difficulties which prevailed UP to that moment, namely to dissolve the dry vaccine, were overcome. This Commission of Physicians, as it was provided, were to vaccinate the troops right there in Africa, because the transport of the vaccine by ordinary channels, that is by medical supply office, was impossible since the vaccine is to perishable and can too easily be destroyed and it could not be preserved under freezing degrees.
Q That is yellow fever vaccine now, and not typhus?
A No, that was yellow fever.
Q And why did you go to Weimar, is that where you went to visit to Weimar?
A I was told that this was to be presented in the vicinity of Weimar, where the SS was. We were to be fetched there by the SS and then sent to the place where this presentation was to take place.
Q You were just seeing the SS doctors in Weimar, is that right?
A I don't quite get you. Would you please repeat?
Q I say, you were seeing only the SS doctors of this Commission in Weimar?
A Yes. We were to present this dissolution of the vaccine to the SS physicians at Weimar.
Q What SS doctors were on this Commission that was going to North Africa? What were their names?
A I only remember the name of Dr. Ding.
Q Witness, are you telling this Commission that Dr. Ding was on a Commission that was going to be flown to North Africa to vaccinate some troops with yellow fever vaccine?
A I do not know whether Dr. Ding was to do that, but I assume that these few physicians who saw that had to train other physicians in order for them to practice this manner of vaccination. There were only a few physicians who witnessed that. I wouldn't assume that only these few physicians were to fly to Africa. I am sure there must have been more than that.
Q What were the names of some of these other SS doctors?
A I regret I can't remember any of the other names.
Q That is unfortunate. And how many were there?
A Five to six, I think.
Q High ranking doctors?
A The gentlemen were dressed in white coats, and I couldn't tell.
Q Where was this demonstration carried out?
A I already said it was in an ante room of the barracks. The camp itself consists of a number of barracks. In one such ante room a table was erected where this presentation took place.
Q This was in the Buchenwald camp itself, it wasn't in Weimar?
A No, we were fetched on from Weimar by car, as I said before, and then driven to Buchenwald, and this presentation occurred in Buchenwald itself.
Q Where did you travel from to get to Buchenwald, did you come from Berlin or come from Cracow?
A No, I came from Berlin.
Q Where did Dr. Eyer come from?
A Dr. Eyer had also been in Berlin before.
Q. What did you do during this demonstration, I remember something about breaking a bottle and putting some water in it and shaking it; is that right?
A No, they is not quite right. I said that this bottle had to be filled, and after that the bottle had to be shaken, end because of the little pieces of glass which ere inside the vaccine is being dissolved. In the use of all vaccine bottles it occasionally happens that the glass broke, since it was too fragile -
Q You are asking this Tribunal to believe that two such distinguished gentlemen as yourself and Dr. Eyer traveled from Berlin to Buchenwald and went into the concentration camp, and demonstrated to five SS doctors, whose names you don't remember, except Dr. Ding, -- demonstrated how to break the neck of the ampule containing the vaccine and how to dissolve it; is that what you want the Tribunal to believe?
A It isn't so simply. You don't just have to break open the ampule, and then dissolve it. You have to work very carefully in a sterile manner. The matter of the dissolution of the vaccine is very important, and it is of much value in presenting this method, especially if any large amount of troops are to be vaccinated.
Q Did you refer this process to anybody else on this Commission, any Army doctors?
A No, the question was never executed, because the problem had been dropped.
Q. Well, you taught the SS men first, then the whole thing was dropped and you did not do anything more. Is that right?
A. We merely trained the SS physicians and then preserved the vaccine in order to be able to use it at a given time.
Q. Witness, did you not see the typhus experimental station when you were in Buchenwald?
A. No, I already said that I did not know that such a station was there.
Q. Dr. Ding did not tell you that he was carrying on a typhus experiment although you were in Buchenwald. Is that right?
A. He did not tell me anything about it.
Q. You know they had an experiment going on the very day you were there; they were testing Akridin and Methylene Blue in the Behring Works. You were actually familiar with these drugs, were you not?
A. No, I know nothing about that.
Q. You never heard of Akridin and Methylene Blue?
A. We were concerned with Methylene Blue, which is something which we used in medicine for many years, but I cannot know for what purpose it was used there. For decades it was used in laboratories for coloring purposes. Akridin is a yellow-colored agent and I do not know what it is used for. It absolutely did not concern my sphere of work.
Q. How long were you in the Buchenwald Camp?
A. I already said that I stayed there for about one and one-half hours.
Q. Yes, I recall you said you saw a group of happy, well-fed workers Marching back to the camp singing.
A. Yes, I saw a column, which marched past as we went out being accompanied by a harmonica or something.
Q. Did they act like happy boy scouts?
A. That I could not judge.
Q. Now, you apparently don't know anything about these yellow fever vaccine tests that Dr. Ding carried out for you in Buchenwald, do you?