Perhaps you will be speaking about later times, and there again I shall prove to you the same thing.
Q Well, Doctor, how do you account for the fact that your illegal units did not participate in Hitler's attempt to overthrow the German Government?
A Do you mean the 9th of November 1923?
Q That is what I mean.
A That is very simple to explain. At that time I received no information About that Putsch. If I had received information in time in the morning of the 9th of November at eight or nine o'clock in the morning the Putsch will start, then I certainly wouldn't have participated in that Putsch. That is a sure thing. I have nothing to keep quiet about in that connection. That is how the situation was at that time and today I confess to that honestly, and just as I am saying it here today, it is written in my book which is public.
Q Well, now, have you ever been a political candidate, Doctor?
A Yes. You mean parliamentary candidate?
Q Yes.
A Yes.
Q You became in February, '24, a member of the Mecklenburg County Legislature, didn't you?
A Yes.
Q You were a member of a National Workers Community, is that it?
A Yes, National Workers Community.
Q What caused you to become a politician Doctor?
A The reason is very clear, and I think I am quite able to explain it clearly. Up to 1923 I had belonged to the German National Liberty Party under Graefe. Graefe had close connections with Hitler and Ludendorff.
In the year of 1923 I left that Party because demands were made which I because of a feeling of faith could not fulfill. Then in February 1924, the electorate for the Mecklenburg Diet came up. Since I had a number of followers in Mecklenburg, I had to fear that the votes of these followers would get lost. The result would have been yet another Red Government in Mecklenburg ruled by Communists and Social Democrats. It was not my desire to bring about a victory of the Red Parties by leaving the German National Liberty Party. Consequently, in order to see to it that these votes wore given to a proper party, I decided to find a new Party which bore the name National Workers Community. I received four seats in the Mecklenburg Diet with that Party, and these seats in the Diet safeguarded the National majority in Mecklenburg. We got a National Government in Mecklenburg which would not have come about if I had acted differently at that time.
Q Now on page 179 of your book, Doctor, I note with interest that you state that you became a politician as you, being an old fighting soldier, felt the shame of Versailes. Isn't that the same reason that Herman Goering extended?
A It may be the same reason. I didn't discuss this question with Herman Goering. At any rate, it would be wrong of me to state here today that at that time I did not feel that Versailles was a shame for the German people. This point of view was represented by the majority of German people, and I also represented that point of view.
Q That's right. You state that you felt the shame of Versailles, Doctor. When did you become a member of the SA, Doctor?
A On the first of July, 1931.
Q Now, from your book I gather that the reason why you became a member of the SA was that you wanted more and more to be active in the political light between national socialism and communism, is that right?
A Yes, that is correct, for the development of affairs in Germany were coming to a head with an enormous speed and were leading to a dispute between the two extremes. These extremes were communism and national socialism on the other hand At that time, as I believe I already stated here in Court, I considered for a long time whether to become a national socialist or a communist. The deeper reason I didn't become a communist at that time was because of the dictatorship of Soviet Russia, the form of government of Soviet Russia.
Q Now you became a Gausturmarzt, that is a doctor for the Gau in the SA, doctor, that was your title or rank?
A Yes, that was a designation which later changed to Untergruppenarzt. This comprised the SA members in the Gau, you see the SA was called the Gausturm at that time and that was the title for the doctors, was Gausturmarzt.
Q Your last rank which you received in 1941, was that of General Arzt or General Gruppenarzt, I understand the title to be, is that rignt?
A My last rank, the rank which I received in 1942 was medical group leader, gruppenfuehrer in the SA.
Q Did you actively participate in the functions of the SA?
A I participated actively in the SA up to the year 1936. I then left the active SA service.
Q I noted on page 238 of your book you state that from 1931 on you marched regularly with the SA. You were pretty proud in those days, weren't you?
A Perhaps you want a reply to that question. You put a question if I am not mistaken.
Q Strike it, doctor, and we will go on to the next question.
When did you form the so-called discussion circle where the national Socialist newspapers, that is the Voelkischer Beobachter, were daily discussed. I will spell that for you, if necessary. V-o-e-l-k-i-s-c-h-e-r and B-e-o-b-a-c-h-t-e-r, and the other paper, Angriff. Now you formed a discussion circle. When did you form that circle?
A I don't know anything about any discussion group which I am supposed to have formed. I know very well that these papers were in my ante-rooms when I had my very extensive practice, and that the patients who are sitting outside were always wanting to read these papers, and that was also true of my political opponents, but I knew nothing about the discussion group. Perhaps it is a mistake in the translation.
Q Doctor, we will go on. Did you organize the medical service of the SA?
A I organized the medical service of the SA in Mecklenburg, not for the Reich. I was not competent to do that.
Q On page 243 of your book you stated you organized the medical service of the SA and took part in the training of the SA on the basis of some regulations which were valid for the armed forces. Now you state it was only for Mecklenburg County for which you organized the medical units, is that right?
A Yes, that is correct. In the case of this description we were concerned with the settling up of a medical battalion in the University City of Rostock. This medical battalion was equipped in exactly the same way as a medical company of the Reich answer at that time, according to the same battalion.
Q You continued to be a member of the SA after it was forbidden by your Government, didn't you?
AAfter the SA was forbidden by my Government?
Q By the German Government?
A You mean the year 1932?
Q Yes.
A Before National Socialism came about?
Q Yes.
AAt that time the SA had been prohibited in some of the German counties. This wasn't true of the entire Reich. It was not a prohibition extending to the entire Reich. In Mecklenborg at that time we had a Red Government and this Government prohibited the SA following the example of other counties in Germany. That is true.
Q I note again with interest, doctor, on page 245 of your book, you state you and your friends had an SA flag which was dedicated to Hitler. You were always loyal to the Fuehrer, weren't you?
A May I ask you what do you mean by "always". Do you mean that period of time?
Q That period of time, yes.
A There I was loyal with regard to that time. That is correct.
Q Now then on page 246 you state you went to meetings in that part of Germany where the NSDAP were in power, and, therefore, many of the party organizations were not forbidden, is that right?
A Yes, that is partly true. In 1931, approximately in October, there was a large SA meeting in Brunswick. Brunswick at that time had a national socialist government. Since we were not concerned with the Reich Prohibition of the SA, it was a matter, of course, that a national socialist government in their own county didn't prohibit the SA, and for that reason Hitler invited the SA for a large scale meet ing in Brunswick and I also participated in that meeting.
That was a mere formality and I can tell you that in civilian clothes I went as far as the Brunswick frontier. Once we arrived at the Brunswick frontier, we stopped the car and went into a ditch and took off our civilian clothes and put on the SA uniform. These were conditions as they prevailed in Germany at that time.
Q You also attended many mass meetings for Adolf Hitler, didn't you?
A In the year 1932 I participated in all meetings of Hitler in Mecklenberg, t a meetings which he held in connection with the Diet election. I naturally participated in these matters.
Q I notice here on the photograph here on page 257 of your book, it gives your name on a very prominent place on a poster for a mass meeting for Adolf Hitler. That is the type of meeting you attended, is it?
A I believe we are not here concerned with a meeting of Adolf Hitler. I think that this is a meeting of the national socialist German Workers' Party, but that year I was speaking on the occasion of the Riechstadt election. Hitler wasn't speaking. I was speaking.
Q How do you account for the bold type, the name, "Adolf Hitler", at the top of the poster, doctor? Wasn't Hitler there?
A May I see it once more, I mean the book?
(The book is handed to the witness)
May I continue?
Q I say, wasn't Hitler there at that meeting?
A No, Hitler, wasn't there. I just want to explain this poster very shortly. On top it says: "Adolf Hitler." Beneath that: "Faith and Hope of Millions." This was the slogan under which the meeting was carried.
Two names are mentioned as speakers, the name of Biochka of Berlin and Blome in Rostock.
Q You were most impressed with Hitler, weren't you, when he appeared in Rostock, and gave a speech there?
A Yes, I was.
Q You had a favorable impression of Goering the first time you heard him speak too, didn't you?
A Yes, Goering wasn't an unknown personality in the least. I knew Goering from the old World War, though not personally. I had been in a position to watch Goering as he shot down enemy fighters at the front in a very expert and skillful manner. As a former front soldier I was full of sympathy towards an old fighter pilot, and that is a matter, of course, that is true of every country in the world.
Q Now on page 260 you quoted Goering as saying: National Socialism will finish with high treason. Heads will fall. And you further indicated you were very satisfied as you had the feeling Goering was a man who would never become soft. You felt Goering was the right man for the job, didn't you?
A Excuse me. I think something was incorrect in the translation. Why don't you repeat the beginning of your question. I understood the last of your question but repeat the beginning?
Q I said, on. page 260 of your book you quoted Goering as saying: That National Socialism will finish with high treason and that heads will fall. You further indicated in that same section of your book you were very satisfied with Goering as you had the feeling Goering was a man who would never become soft. Therefore, you felt that Goering was the right man for the job, didn't you?
A No, this description is not quite true. Maybe it is due to the translation. I will explain it. What I mean to say, or rather I don't want to say in my book, that National Socialism would deal with people who had committed him treason, that Goering is the right man, and that heads would fall.
Q Just a moment, doctor. I will have you read the section from your book. It is marked in red pencil.
A Yes, why don't you do that? Yes. May I read aloud a little from that paragraph? I quote: "In Gusstrow I saw Hermann Goering for the first time as a speaker. It was said about him that as soon as National Socialism got to power it would quickly deal with people who had committed high treason and that their heads would fall. After having heard him speak we were extremely satisfied for we had the assurance that here was a man who would never be soft." In that connection as far as to say the following: It says here: "People who had committed treason against the fatherland, and not people who had committed high treason, men who had committed treason against the fatherland, and so there were people who had committed treason on a lower level. The fact that a man who committed, treason against his country would lose his own head in every civilized country in the world as a well known fact. No country can tolerate a man who commits treason against his country. That is the most shameful crime."
Q Now, doctor, in the course of the direct examination you have stated that the reason why you didn't include any reference to World War II in your book was because of the fact that you were definitely opposed to it. Now, I am asking you were you interested in preparations being made by the Nazis to wage aggressive war?
A I knew nothing about any aggressive preparations on the part of Hitler or Germany. Consequently, I wasn't in a position to be interested.
Q Did you ever participate in the secret arming of Germany?
A Do you mean whether I ever participated in any secret arming of Germany?
Q That's right.
A I wasn't in a position to choose of any arms and I naturally could participate in no secret arming of Germany.
Q Did you ever receive funds to equip illegal medical units?
A Illegal medical units? Arm them? Oh, yes, I know what you mean new. Yes. What you probably mean is the setting up of the Medical Battalion of the SA in Rostock which I had mentioned before, the Battalion which was equipped in the same way as a Medical Company of Reichswehr at that time.
That in effect happened but that was the very publicly. Training took place in public, the equipment was bought at official German firms, and the money came from funds of the German Red Cross at Mecklenburg.
Q Now, doctor, did you ever held lectures about war surgery, gas poisons, and medical tactics in those early days?
A The heads of this Medical Battalion, that is to say the SS physicians, amounted to over one hundred in Mecklenburg. They participated in a course which I activated in the year 1933 or 1934 and which was set up for the purpose of giving these physicians old medical technical knowledge, as well as other medical knowledge necessary in case of a war. At that time there was not yet the general duty for military conscription in Germany but we could read in foreign papers daily that the National Socialistic State found very little sympathy in the world. One could indirectly interpret the foreign press as expressing threats of war. We all expected that sooner or later some country would find some reason to start war with us. Since we saw the position in that light we naturally generally rearmed. Germany was placed into the defense situation and that was naturally also done in the medical service. The entire German population at that time was well satisfied with this new order and welcomed these measures of rearmament and felt themselves safeguarded by them. That, on the other hand, has nothing at all to do without you mean and if I tried to get to the core of your question, namely that I or generally the German people, thought to set up any medical companies or to again receive the opportunity to set up fighting forces because we knew something about the military intentions of Hitler, I can assure you here under ?th that if we or the German people had known at that time that these preparations were going to serve as offensive arms of Adolf Hitler then Hitler's days, I am sure, would have been numbered at that time.
Q Well, now, on page 265 you spoke about your participation in the secret arming of Germany. In fact you mentioned that you received large amounts of money for the equipment of medical units, had hold lectures on war surgery, gas poisons, and medical tactics. That is marked in red pencil I wish you would read that aloud to the Tribunal. Read slowly so the interpreter can follow.
At the top of the page.
A Yes. I would like to. "I could now begin to realize my old plan, namely to set up a medical battle in which was started in 1932 and equip it just as a regular company of the Reichswehr. Since Germany had not yet regained its military liberty we had no choice but to work quietly for the emergency of again and again threatened war, namely for re argument. The Medical Service of the one hundred thousand man Army, as it was defined by the Versailles Treaty certainly could not suffice as it was ?? every reserve was welcome. I succeeded to obtain a large sum of money and with that get the complete equipment necessary for a medical company. The physicians very ardently worked for the war time equipment of this medical company. In case of war I would have been in a position to give to the Wehrmacht a completely equipped medical company and place them entirely at their disposal." This money which has been mentioned here originated from the German Red Cross at Mecklenburg which was here for medical purposes. And, had a war came about it would have helped the wounded and sick soldiers - the soldiers of Germany as well as the soldiers of their opponents.
Q Isn't there another quotation on that same page before we finish up this noon, doctor? Isn't there another quotation at the bottom of the page that I have marked with red pencil? Will you read that also? The one that goes over to the next page, would you read that, too, please?
A Yes, that is the continuation of what I have just read.
Q This is a convenient breaking point, your Honor, I am going on to another subject.
THE TRIBUNAL: The Tribunal will now be in recess until 1330.
(A recess was taken.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
TEE MARSHAL: Poisons in the court room will please find their seats.
The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel may proceed.
KURT BLOME -- Resumed CROSS EXAMINATION -- Continued BY MR. HARDY:
Q. At the noon recess, Doctor, I inquired as to whether or not you had read the last section of that particular subject concerning the lectures about was surgery, gas poisoning, and so forth, and my colleague, Dr. Hochwald, informs me that you have not. So, at this time, I'm going to ask that you will read this last Paragraph that I have now marked in blue ink. It goes on to page 266, Doctor.
A. I quote: "I, as a former officer, was interested in the military training of all SA doctors. Under an agreement with the Commander of the Rostock-Reichswehr, Lieutenant Colonel von Tay, I ordered over one hundred SA doctors to come to Rostock for a whole week. Everyone were a uniform as they had during time of combat, at their own expense. The courses took place in the University clinic. From military surgery to the combatting of epidemic from gas poisoning to the tactics of medicine in general. Everything was discussed here. Military exercises were the conclusion, which took place in the neighborhood of Rostock with SA, in which SCH, the battalion physician, who was a friend of mine, took part. "
Q Now, here in your book, Doctor, you state that you received funds to build up medical units; that you participated in this secret army and you gave these lectures. Now, is it my understanding that your purpose in doing all this was only to prepare for an event whereby another country might attack or declare war on Germany?
A. Yes, that is clearly to be seen from the previous citation from their book in which it was actually set down in writing that our measures were taken in case we should be attacked. That is a result which is a matter of course in any country.
Q. What were your ideas along racial lines, Doctor?
A. Could I ask you please to ask me individual questions in this matter I believe that otherwise it might take too long.
Q. Well, we'll get to the core quickly, Doctor. You were decidedly anti-Semitic, weren't you?
A. May I ask what you understand "anti-Semitic" to be so that I may correctly answer the question?
Q. That you were in favor of any program instituted against the Jews.
A. shall endeavor to understand your question correctly and to also endeavor to keep my answer brief.
In the National Socialist program there is one point that regulates the racial question. I, myself, had concerned myself with the racial question since the conclusion of the First World War, and I can now only honestly say the following. After the First World War I took a position against the extreme degree to which the Jewish population tried to participate in German life as a whole. I saw this extreme attitude manifested in the following. Beginning with the very first Soldiers' Councils there was hardly one in which there was not a Jew as a member. In the Revolution at that time the Jew took a leading and definitive role. In the reconstruction of the State that followed, again the Jew took a prominent part. In the entire political life of the Nation, in the economic life, in the financial world, in science, and in the cultural life and in the arts, a great number of the leading positions were occupied by Jews. This participation of the Jews, at that time, did not, to any degree, correspond to the proportion of Jews in the total German population. Nor was it ever my point of view that, for example, the Jews' participation in leading positions -- in all these various positions that I just mentioned -- should be regulated in accordance with the percentage of Jews in the total population. However, in Germany, the development was such that we could list numbers such as were also listed in my book -- numbers relating to the intellectual life and to the position that Jews occupied in the free professions. Perhaps, if you will let me have my book for a moment, I can read these numbers out to you.
A. Don't bother, Doctor. Continue.
A. Yes. In the company of many others I saw this development as an extremo attitude on the part of the Jews which I thought should be legally regulated the way any extreme position must be regulated. The reaction against this took place in political life and always does take place. The penetration of the Jews into all leading positions was interrupted by the advent of National Socialism. National Socialism -- and this I must mention here to make what I am going to say comprehensible -- was so stupid and nearsighted that it, in its turn, behaved as extremely as the Jews had previously behaved extremely.
after this legalization I mention that should take place in politics and in the nation as a whole, of course it had to happen that the extreme behavior of the national socialist must in its turn arouse as great a reaction as the previous extreme behavior of the Jews and this reaction actually did become formulated as law, namely with consequences that could not be foreseen and which I shall refrain from describing here but which everyone in this room is familiar with. My attitude toward the penetration of Jews in Germany did not rest in any way on a feeling of personal hatred toward the individual Jew. I had too many good friends among my Jewish colleagues to allow that to occur and who later, in the period after National Socialism came in, I assisted. If I had known that the Prosecution would take up this theme I could have provided myself with affidavits that would have exonerated me of any feeling of hatred towards Jews. I can assert about myself, justly, that I did not know the feeling of hatred at all, not towards groups of people and not towards individual persons. The word hatred is a word that does not exist in my dictionary. My purely objective observations were supplemented by studies of a purely scientific nature and here too I should like to express myself briefly and refer to the father of race hygiene, the Englishman, Francis Gordon, who lived from 1822 to 1911, and who is known in tho whole world as the creator of research into tho problem of twins. He is really the father of race hygiene. Gordon was then joined by well known Americans. I am not mentioning this because I want to make the Americans responsible for race hatred in Germany but only because this is a historical development which I must outline, in the interest of truth. In America.....
Q. Let us not concern ourselves now with the historical background of this particular subject. I will go on to a few quotations in your book and we will cover the ground much more rapidly. Now I note on page 25 of your book which is perhaps your first remark in connection with the Jews, in which you state that France, being then in the hands of the Jews, that is during the first world war, brought shame on civilization in that they promised negroes white German women and girls as a reward for bravery in battle. Now was the your only reason for saying that the Jews brought shame on civilization?
A. I never compared the Jews with the negroes. That is a quite different race.
Q. You said that the Jews brought shame on civilization because they -the Jews -- had promised white German women and girls as a reward for bravery in battle. Didn't you say that in your book?
A. It is a well known fact, which has been confirmed by negroe prisoner that they were promised white women as a reward after the victory. And to this I must say, quite openly and frankly, that I cannot by any means consider this just. I see in the mixing of two foreign races unhappiness for both races and Hadison Grant, an American, has particularly pointed out this fact in his book -- The Decline of the Great Races.
Q. And you were also of the opinion that the Jews were war profiteers, weren't you?
A. That the Jews were war profiteers I was not only of that opinion but I know it is a fact -- that is a historical fact.
Q. How have you ever made any anti-Semitic remarks, particularly in connection with the so-called unpolitical universities?
A. In my book I also dealt with the question of the universities and set down in my book to what a high degree German faculties were over-filled with Jews.
Q. I will have you read that section, Doctor, please -- the two section which are marked in red pencil. Read those two sections on page 85 which are marked in red pencil.
A. Well, first of all, it says here "Fresh Jewish kids who had avoided taking part in war, set the pace." Let me remark in this connection that this was not an invention on my part but that was observation on the part of most of the German population from the simple German laborer to the intellectual, and if I should write a biography and if I were a chronologist, then I should have to describe events in the way that they actually were at any one time. I now quote further: "Here it was that I first came to know of the socalled unpolitical universities. Far from realizing a new only one goal -to cultivate science for its own sake, whether Jews or Germans, whether front line soldiers or malingerers, -- in their life and in their activities there was not this difference.
For then there was only one thing -- to have an international reputation as great as possible. This attitude on the part of some of the universities was to be extended in the period that was to follow and was to produce the most strange consequences." This paragraph that I have just read -- I can only say of it that it is the pure truth so far as facts are concerned, but since this theme has been broached, please permit me to mention a few statistics in this connection.
Q. Just a moment, Doctor; before you mention those statistics turn to page 91.
A. 91, yes.
Q. I have marked there in red pencil where you speak of your deep hatred of the Jew. Kindly read that to the Tribunal.
A. "Under the motto 'Down with Capitalism' these Jewish characters paid homage to the owners of capital, otherwise they would not have been able to remain in the government. They were the frontline fighters for Jewry and helped the Jews to pass into foreign hands the last assets that the German people possessed. Whereas these groups, and I emphasize the words 'these groups; I despised because of their stupidity and lack of conscience, I, hated them also for their foreign nature which tried to assert itself within the German nation in order the better and the more effectively and the more destructively to exploit the German people. 'No More War' they cried to the people, reminded them of the horrors of the years just passed, but in secret they were in cahoots with the victors, with those who had run the blockade, and always conducted their dirty international deals, while the people, women, children, and old persons, starved by the ten thousands. When 200,000 milk cows were delivered and which, as I remember, took place in accordance with a provision of the Versailles Treaty and the doctors objected, a Jewish social democratic member of the Reichstag stated that this was a matter that did not concern the doctors at all." Let me remark in this connection the following What I have just read here is set down clearly in black and white. That was the situation in Germany at that time, unfortunately though the case may be.
As a historian I described the circumstances as they were, and I myself, as I thought was right at that time, opposed these matters which I thought I had to do as a decent German.
Q. You also approved of ill treatment of the Jews, didn't you? Yes or no?
A. There is nothing about mistreating Jews in my book, nor does my book even mention, let alone demand, mistreatment. I consider any form of mistreatment as abominable, whether it is Jews or someone else who is being mishandle. Mistreatment is always abominable. I have never preached such a doctrine, nor have I ever taken up any such things.
Q. Now on page 125 you blamed the Jews for being the main profiteers in the inflation, and you say that they received beatings from members of your circle, when they committed something of that kind. You further state, on page 128, in connection with the trial of a Jewish professor who had been beaten, you state that you were called as a witness in the trial which follow the beating of this Jewish professor, and that you refused to answer question put to you by this professor's Jewish defense counsel. Did you approve of the beating that was given to this Jewish professor by one of your friends?
A. I can say only the following to that, if the same thing should happen to me that happened to this man who beat this Jew I would have done the same. What happened to him was this: this man's fiance had been offended indecently by this officer, and whether this had been a Jewish professor or a German professor is of no consequence, but the man who indecently insulted my fiance will take a beating from me whether a Jew or a German.
Q. First of all, don't shout. The interpreter can hear you. Was this beating of such importance that it should appear in the autobiography of one Kurt Blome?
A. No, and I have already said in this connection, if I am writing and book, and it appears to a certain extent as historical, then I must adhere as to the truth about that period, otherwise I can't throw illumination on that period.
Q. All right. Tell us about the Jewish Minister of Foreign Affairs, Rathenau?
A. You mean Rathenau, the former Foreign Minister?
Q. That is right.
A. Kern and Fischer, members of Erhardt Brigade, murdered Rathenau. Rathenau was a Jew and was foreign minister. This assassination of Rathenau aroused great interest, not only in Germany, but in the entire World at that time, and in connection with this assassination I stated my views quite generally on political assassination, and said in my book verbatim, that in general the political assassination should be repudiated. My point of view expressed in my book was quite clearly negative.
Q. You and your friends were rather gleeful about the assassination of Rathenau; page 131 you state in connection with the assassination of Rathenau that you and your circle were not sorry Rathenau was no longer Foreign Minister, being that type of an International Jew. Actually, Doctor, you were an accessory after the fact to the assassination of Rathenau, were you not?
A. That is an assertion on your part for which you cannot offer any proof whatsoever. I was not an accessory to this murder, which can clearly be seen from my book, now should I like to say what you just quoted, you said I and my friends were gleeful that Rathenau was murdered.
There is no single word that says that in my book. We said we were not sorry that we no longer had a Jew as Foreign Minister, but the assertion that we were glad that a murder had taken place was a discussion which in no way corresponds with reality, nor is it set down in black and white in my book.
Q. On page 132, first of all, Doctor, do you know what an accessory after the fact is? I don't believe you do. We will go on. On page 132 in the following you elaborately described how the murders of Rathenau the two ment, Kern and Fischer, were protected and concealed by you and your friends; isn't that in the realm of an accessory after the fact of the murder of Rathenau?
A. No. That is quite clearly defined in the general German Penal Code. That means in the German Penal law, it means helping after the fact, and the maximum penalty for that is one year in prison. Therefore, the fact that I helped previous friends or comrades from the field and did not betray them, I could to be sure have been penalized with one year in prison but this has nothing to do with the planning or participation in a murder. The situation was as friends, I and my friends were at the time roughly 2$ years old. We were old comrades and old front line volunteers. If these two of my comrades actually committed such a crime, then in view of this situation at that time I really could not make up my mind to betray these comrades of mine and to turn them over to the police. The reason for this is undoubtedly to be found in the whole political and economic situation at that time. It was pretty chaotic. From this point of view and also in view of my youth and in view of the fact these were my comrades, and in view of the chaotic conditions at that time, this whole matter must be evaluated and appraised. I can say now that I am older and more mature, and if such a thing occurred now I should not have helped those people. I should have shown them the door, but again I don't believe I should have actually betrayed them. That is something that I did at that time, I described it quite openly in my book somewhere, and that is still my position today, and I can adhere to that position today, because that was no act that in any way had to do with motives affecting one's honor.