They made a large bend in the north and then they landed in eastern Finnmark.
After we had listened to the people who arrived in this way, we learned much more about what had happened in the various villages. Slowly but surely, we discovered what had happened and the whereabouts of people, and where help was most needed. The Norwegian soldiers had arrived at this time in Finnmark, and Lt. Colonel Johnson, was appointed leader of the expedition which was to help the civilian population.
We listened to what these people who came from the other parts of Finnmark had to say, and in this way we also discovered how the Germans had acted in the various districts.
Slowly but surely we succeeded in bringing the people who had been living under the most difficult conditions to Eastern Finnmark. In the meantime we received news that the Germans had also been carrying out destructions in Western Finnmark.
Q Witness, the town of Vardoe which you spoke about last, it is on the Varanger peninsula; is that correct?
A It is on the Varanger Peninsula. Vardoe, - the town of Vardoe, is on a small island which is divided from Varanger by a sound. There is no land communication from the town to the island, but the main road goes on up to this waterway, this sound.
Q Would you please show us the town of Vardoe on the map? Witness where is the main road 50 which goes from the East to the West?
(Witness indicating these things on map?
A It starts here and then goes along this red line where I am pointing.
Q How far, approximately is this town, Vardoe, from the main road, main road 50 which goes from the East to the West?
A The waterway which divides Vardoe from the main road is about 1500 meters wide.
Q I do not think the witness understood my question.
A From the main road 50 there is a branch, a continuation, so to speak, from Vardoe to Vardsae.
Q Witness, the question I think was very simple. How far is the distance from the main road 50 to Vardoe, in kilometers?
A 75 kilometers from Vardoe to Vardsae.
Q That still is not the answer to my question. You have now told me how far from Vardoe to Vardsae. I asked you how far it is from Vardoe to the main road, 50.
AAbout 125 kilometers.
Q That's correct. Now, witness, this town which you mentioned before, - my Norwegian is not very good, - but it's Finnkenjkeila, how far is this place from the main road 50, in kilometers?
A 130 or 140 kilometers.
Q. Witness, in your capacity as a policeman up there, have you often traveled through this whole territory?
A. Yes.
Q. During the occupation?
A. Not as much during the time of the occupation as afterwards.
Q. How soon after the occupation?
A. I went from Skjanes to Vardoe on the 17th and 18th of November. On the 18th of December, I was in Berlevaag. On the 28th or 29th of December, I went from Vardoe to Palmak, and then back again.
Q. An of these towns which you have named are in Finnmark?
A. Yes. In May, 1946, I went by air from Vardoe to Tromsoe. That is on the other side of Finnmark, in the West.
Q. Were these trips which you have just spoken about of an official nature?
A. A part of them, yes. Some of them were official. The trip to Tromsoe was of a private nature.
Q. Apart from the private trip, what was your official task?
A. My trip to Berlevaag, had to do with the traitors, - the trial against the people who had committed high treason.
Q. Witness, you do not have to toll us the reasons for every single one of your official trips. Generally speaking, in which capacity did you travel there, and what was on the whole, your task?
A. I travelled in the capacity of a police official. They were only investigations on those kinds of tasks.
Q. Did you have contact with the inhabitants during these trips?
A. Yes.
Q. Witness, during the evacuation did you ever receive a reason from the German occupation authority why the evacuation took place?
A. Yes. During the conversations which I mentioned before with the German officer in Finnkonjkeila, I heard about this. This was that the population had to be taken from the sphere of the threatening soviet Russian domination of terror. When I was in the house of my mother--in law in order to get the clothes which I spoke about before, I met a German soldier who was forcing some drawers, etc.
I do not know what he was looking for. He saw that I took various pieces of clothing, and tried to put them into my rucksack, and he said to me, "Leave it; you don't need anything." He said, "If you should succeed in getting away into the mountains, you are going to be shot anyway, and if the Russians come, then you will be used for forced labor in Siberia, and you don't need any of these things there."
Q. Witness, did the Russians really penetrate into this territory about which we are just speaking?
A. No.
Q. Did the population with whom you spoke ever tell you what they thought bout the reason for the evacuation?
A. The Norwegian population regarded the destructions which bad taken place, and the evacuation as pure vandalism.
MR. RAPP: I have no further questions at this time, your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY DR. FRITSCH:
Q. Dr. Fritsch for the defendant Rendulic. Witness, you were a police official for four years during the occupation?
A. Yes.
Q. Well, then, you worked for the Quisling government?
A. No.
Q. You were a police official?
A. Yes.
Q. And who constituted the government then?
A. From 1941, it was the Quisling government.
Q. And to whom were you subordinate as a police official?
A. During the period of the Quisling government, we police officials followed the orders and paroles which were given us by our lawful government in London.
Q. But the exiled government in London couldn't give any individual orders, any detailed orders.
A. We had our system of information and we were so informed that we know and could follow what was decided in London.
Q. And what kind of information was this? What system of information?
A. We listened to the Norwegian radio from London. I would like to point out that the Quisling government had their own police, state police, and a party police.
Q. Well, who paid you then?
A. I got my salary from the Norwegian state.
Q. And this Norwegian state was represented by the Norwegian Minister of the Interior for you?
A. I would like to point out to the defense counsel that although we had a Quisling government in the country, the Norwegian resistance movement was in no way dead, only a small percentage of the population supported the Quisling government and the government was supported by bayonets.
Q. Witness, when the Quisling government came into power, did you have to swear an oath of loyalty to them?
A. No, we didn't have to. If anyone had been asked to swear this kind of oath, I would have left my job.
Q. Witness, I am now speaking about the period November 1944. According to your description, a telephone conversation from Finnkonjkeila told you for the first time of the imminent evacuation. Is that correct?
A. Yes, that is right.
Q. And previously, no announcements of any kind had been issued about an evacuation?
A. During the middle of October, I went on my bicycle from Vardoe to Smallfjord and then I went on by boat to Skjanes. There I saw an heard that the Norwegian members of the Nazi Party had received information that they were to be evacuated. They were told that they were to be brought to safety. About that time, I didn't discover anything about the fact that the Norwegian population was to be evacuated. This information only referred to the Nazi population, and I thought it probably that the Germans would tell their followers in Norway that they were to be brought to safety.
Q. Witness, when did you see for the first time a poster, an announcement which urged the population to evacuate?
A. As I traveled through Tana, those proclamations were nowhere to be seen. As I have already said, in Skjanes there was no land communication. Everything there took place at sea, by sea routes. The only telephonic communication which we had in Skjanes was with Finnkonjkeila and in this part of the country no posters were put up.
Q. And did you see later on posters of this kind?
A. Yes. I saw then when I came back to Vardoe in connection with the work which I had to do as a police official.
Q. Witness, did you go in an official capacity to Skjanes?
A. Yes.
Q. As a police official?
A. Yes.
Q. Well, what did you have to do there? Just one quite short answer.
A. Since the town of Vardoe was far from the main routes, it was decided that a part of the police chamber there was to be transferred and this part was to be taken to Skjanes.
Q. Who issued this order?
A. The order was given to me by my chief, the police director in Vardoe.
Q. And from whom did the director of police receive this order?
A. I can't say because I naturally do not have the right to ask my superiors from whom they received their orders.
Q. To whom was this police director subordinate?
A. The Department of Justice was superior to the Police director.
Q. And this Department of Justice belonged to the Quisling government?
A. Yes, but a very large percentage - the greatest percentage in the Department of Justice did not belong to the Quisling Government.
Q. Not to the Quisling government? Or the Quisling party?
A. Only the ministers were in the government.
PRESIDING JUDGE CARTER: The Tribunal will recess until one-thirty this afternoon.
(A recess was taken until 1330 hours.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Courtroom will please find their seats.
The Tribunal is again in session.
MR. RAPP: Your Honors will see before them a piece of paper which I have passed out during the recess to be marked for identification 523-A. I just wanted to get this in in time so that by tomorrow noon when the 24-hour period elapses we can tie this particular certificate up to Norway Document 6--523-A. I furnished copies of this to the interpreters, the court reporters, the assistant Secretary General, the German defense counsel.
CROSS EXAMINATION (Continued) BY DR. FRITSCH:
Q Your Honor, may I continue the cross examination? Witness, before the noon recess, you told me that the middle of October, 1944, you had been transferred to Skjanes by the then Norwegian government.
A Yes.
Q Were you then again in service as a police sergeant major?
A The police office was to be transferred. However, it did not get there because the boat which was to take these people there was seized by the Germans and requisitioned. That was in Batsfjord.
Q What did you do in Skjanes?
A I was waiting there for our office. The telephone communications were cut and for that reason I had no information. I was waiting for the boat to arrive.
Q Witness, who was your highest superior in Norway?
A The police was administered by the Justice Department and thus the Justice Department was the highest authority.
Q And this Justice Department was part of the Norwegian Government of that day?
A It is like this: every minister took care of the duties of his department.
Q He belonged to the government, didn't he?
A Yes, he did.
Q Witness, you told me that you did not have to swear an oath of loyalty to the Norwegian government of that time. Is that correct?
A Yes, it is.
Q Only you yourself didn't swear an oath of loyalty or did none of the police officials swear an oath of loyalty?
A The whole of the police. Those who were Norwegians among the police officials did not swear so oath of loyalty.
Q But then you carried out your duties on the directives of that government?
A I would like to point out that the adherents of Quisling goverment in Norway were not more than two per cent of the population. In all departments of the government, people who were bitter enemies of the Quisling government had their place. Even within the Quisling party, the resistance movement had its people who informed the resistance movement about what was happening within the Quisling party. It might be said that the whole country, almost the entire population was not only opposed to the Quisling government but was fighting against the government.
Q Excuse me, that is sufficient for my purposes. Witness, you then went to the Norwegian place which I can hardly pronounce-Finnkonjkeila. The German soldiers who landed there--you saw them, did you?
A Yes, I did.
Q Were these marines or were they ordinary troops?
A Ordinary army troops as well as marines.
Q How did you recognize the difference?
AAfter the Germans had been in the country for four years, it was natural that one knew the difference between a marine and an ordinary army soldier.
Q You talked with the leader of that unit?
A Yes.
Q That was a Lieutenant?
A Yes.
Q A Lieutenant of the Marines?
A That was an army lieutenant.
Q Do you know, witness, when in this place the inhabitants were first asked to evacuate it?
A That was on the previous day, on the 30th of October, 1944.
Q And in what manner?
A This place has no road communications; for that reason, a ship came which landed those soldiers. These soldiers went through the village and told the population what was to happen.
Q Witness, you had said in this children's home which was situated in this village had been transferred from Vardoe. Is that correct?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q For what reason was the children's home transferred from Vardoe to this place?
AAs I said before Vardoe is situated far to the east, and for that reason there was a great danger that war operations would take place in that region. Apart from that, the building in which the children's home was housed, had been taken over by the Germans.
First of all the children's home was transferred to Kongsfjord.
Q Just a moment, did Russian air attacks take place on Vardoe?
A Yes, indeed.
Q Was not that the reason why this children's home was transferred from Vardoe to a place which was in less danger?
A I assume that both reasons applied.
Q Was Vardoe greatly damaged by these air attacks?
A Yes, indeed.
Q What was the approximate percentage of the town which was destroyed by these air attacks?
AAbout 45 per cent, of the houses.
Q Were destroyed by these air attacks?
A Yes.
Q Witness, you then brought these children to Skjanes on the 1st November 1944?
A Yes.
Q You said it was very difficult to go across the mountains-these children were dressed in a very insufficient manner, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Why did you not put these children into the ships in order to send them to safety in that way?
A Since numerous attacks had taken place at sea by the Russians and other allies, it was deemed very dangerous to evacuate the children by sea.
Q Did this evacuation of the children to Skjanes take place in agreement with the German evacuation commission?
A No. That was out of the question.
Q How did the German evacuation authorities want to transport these children?
A They were transported in such a landing craft, it was an iron boat with a roof and nothing else.
Q And this kind of a transport you found more dangerous than the transport with insufficient clothing across the mountains?
A From Finnkonjkeila to Skjanes the distance is not greater than about 30 kilometers, but to Tromsoe, and that was the first point where the German landing craft would stop, it would have been 650 kilometers, across wide stretches of sea infested with mines, and so forth.
Q Witness, how big is Finnkonjkeila?
AAbout a 100 people lived in Finnkonjkeila.
Q 100. Can a landing craft travel over a distance of 650 kilometers non-stop?
A Mr. Defense Counsel must not assume that I know tho efficiency and capacity of tho German war vessels.
Q You had stated that this was a small iron boat which would only touch land in Tromsoe, that is after a voyage of 650 kilometers, do you know that?
A It was not a small boat, it was one of those flat boats with a flat bottom the English called landing crafts.
Q It was a large boat then?
A What do you mean by a large one and what do you mean by a small one in talking about ships?
Q Just because of that I would like to be told the size of this boat by the witness who has after all soon this boat.
A For the length and width to be given in meters?
Q Yes, please.
AAbout 20 meters long and five to six wide.
Q When you then returned to Skjanes did you again take up your duties as a police officer?
A I said previously that in Skjanes I was waiting for my office which had been delayed in Batsfjord, and as long as my office and the officials had not arrived in full strength, I could not take up my duties with this office.
Q You then had lots of children in the school in Skjanes, how many children were there and how old were they?
A I have already said that there were 23 children, and the age categories from one to 15 years.
Q Did women look after these children?
A Yes, indeed.
Q How many women were available for this purpose?
A I have already told you four.
Q You then said that these small children especially were brought half clothed, half dressed on the boats; why did not these women see to it that these children were properly dressed?
A I have already said that the directores of the children's home came to me and asked me to intervene. The children were taken on board the ship while I was looking on myself.
Q This does not constitute an answer to my question.
A How could the women dress the children when the Germans tore these children from their beds and conducted them to the boats.
Q Excuse me witness. I put a question to you, why did the women not dress these children. You answered by putting a question to me.
A It was like this. The directores of this children's home had come to me and she hoped and expected that I would be successful seeing that the children were not taken and if the children were not taken away there would have been no necessity for dressing them.
Q. How long did you negotiate with the German officer about this question?
A. About 5 minutes.
Q. And he still refused to leave the children in the home?
A. Yes, indeed.
Q. Was the director of this children's home present at this discussion?
A. She was in the house while I was talking to the officer outside the house on the stairs.
Q. Could she not in the meantime see to it that the children were dressed?
A. The director of the children's home did not believe the Germans would be brutal enough to take the children in this manner.
Q. Had it been said that the children were to be evacuated on a ship?
A. Yes, that was said.
Q. Now, what was the brutality in this procedure?
A. First of all it was brutal that the children should be subjected to such a. voyage. It was so to speak an iron box, the boat was nothing else but an iron box with a motor at the end. Apart from that not enough time was loft to prepare the children in a proper manner for a voyage of this kind.
Q. How much time was at their dispositional?
A. Not much more than 5 minutes.
Q. You mean to say that from the time the German soldiers announced Skjanes was to be evacuated until the time the children had to board the ship?
A. The children's home or the population generally?
Q. The population generally?
A. One hour.
Q. How large is Skjanes, as regards population, I mean?
A. About 150 inhabitants.
Q. Witness, you had received permission for yourself to return home again and to look after the evacuation of your family, is that correct?
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. Have I understood you correctly that the Germans had surrounded the whole village by sentries?
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. In spite of that you did not board the ship?
A. No.
Q. Rather you went into the mountains?
A. Yes, indeed.
Q. Were you not observed by the soldiers who surrounded the village?
A. No. The village of Skjanes is so very extended there is one house here and one house quite a distance away.
Q. One can't really speak of surrounding this village then?
A. German soldiers were posted around the village. To say "surrounded" would not be the proper expression.
Q. Have I understood the number correctly of those who entered the mountains from Skjanes, did you say there were 130?
A. I said in the camp in which I was we were 130 People.
Q. Were all of these people from Skjanes?
A. All of these people came from Skjanes.
Q. Witness, how many people were evacuated from Skjanes?
A. 27.
Q. And all the others could save themselves from being evacuated by fleeing?
A. Yes, I have already said that.
Q. How many German soldiers had landed in order to carry out the evacuation?
A. I don't know whether I saw all of them the way I was, however, I want to say there must have been 15 to 20 men.
Q. Do you want to say these 15 or 20 people were not in a position to supervise the place that was evacuated?
A. It is evident that the population of the village knew the conditions of the terrain in the village and in the surrounding country better than the soldiers who were posted there, and for that reason they were successful in gaining the mountains in spite of the soldiers.
Q. Where was the evacuation intended to take the people from Skjanes?
A. We did not get any information on this.
Q. Was this transport boat which was to evacuate the peculation from SKjanes, was that also a fairly large boat, that is to say a ship?
A. It was the same landing craft of which I have already spoken.
Q. The same boat which evacuated the population in that other place?
A. The same boat which evacuated the children from Skjanes traveled to Finnkonjkeila, on the next day, and that is as far as I heard, and took the population on board as there were only very few who had come to the boat.
Q. You said, the evacuation of Finnkonjkeila took place before that of Skjanes, is that not correct?
A. No, it took place afterwards.
Q. Witness, you were in Finnkonjkeila, that place was evacuated, there you escaped the evacuation, and you also took the children with you, and then you went to Skjanes?
A. My family was in Skjanes. I was asked from Finnkonjkeila to go there and help and bring these children to safety. I therefore went from Skjanes to Finnkonjkeila. My family, therefore, was not in Finnkonjkeila.
Q. That is correct? Witness, when you were in Finnkonjkeila, there were German troops there, as you said, in order to evacuate that place?
A. German troops were there in order to burn down the place.
Q. And leave the population there?
A. The population was to stay there. It was said that a ship would come and will fetch you.
Q. And this ship, witness, when you went to Skjanes had not arrived in Finnkonjkeila?
A. No, it bad not arrived at Finnkonjkeila yet. The ship which actually came had been in Skjanes, had taken the children aboard, and touched Finnkonjkeila on the way to the south on the way across the fjord.
Q. Witness, on my question when I asked if the ship was to go to Skjanes, you answered me you did not know, is that correct?
A. We got the information that the population was to be sent to the south.
Q. No place was named?
A. No place was named.
Q. But you knew that the same ship which had taken the children was going to Tromsoe, that is what you said previously?
A. I did not know that the ship was bound for Tromsoe. I heard later when communications were re-established that the ship had gone to Tromsoe.
Q. Witness, as reason for your wanting to take the children across the mountains, you told me this was that Skjanes was only 30 kilometers while you had known that the ship was bound for Tromsoe, that would have been 650 kilometers; and now you are telling that you learned only later that the ship was to go to Tromsoe?
A. I named Tromsoe because I know now where the ship was bound for. That is the reason I named this distance.
Q. At that time you did not know that the ship was bound for Tromsoe?
A. No. I only knew that the children were to be sent south.
Q. Previously, you told me on my question of why you went by foot over the mountains, you told me that you had escaped evacuation because the ship was bound for Tromsoe. That is previously, you tole me that you knew at that time that the ship was bound for Tromsoe. Why is there discrepancy in that, witness.
A. When the Germans came and said the ship was bound for the south, when we in Norway talk of the south we mean everything south of Trondehjem. If we talk of northern Norway, we talk of everything situated north of Tromsoe.
Q. Witness, thank you, we can leave this subject now. One question. Did you talk about the evidence during the noon recess with any of your fellow countrymen?
A. No.
Q. Witness, as you said, you then went in a Norwegian motorboat from Skjanes to Vardoe, is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Witness, may I first of all ask you, do you speak German?
A. Very little. I understand a little bit of German.
Q. Was this motorboat belonging to the Norwegian government of that time?
A. This was a fishing vessel which belonged to a fisher in the Batsfjord.
Q. Witness, when you returned to Vardoe, did you take up your duties?
A. Yes, indeed.
Q. You said you had made investigations regarding those people who had escaped to the mountains?
A. Yes.
Q. And on whose orders did you do that?
A. On the order of my chief, the police director.
Q. That is on the official orders of the then Norwegian government?
A. What does the defense counsel understand by "Norwegian Government" in this case?
Q. The superiors of your police director.
A. The Norwegian government was in London. The Quisling government was never recognized as a Norwegian government.
Q. Witness, I please ask you not to evade this Question. I have asked you on whose orders your director of police was acting?
A. Norwegian members of the Norwegian government in England had come back to Norway as well as Norwegian soldiers, and they started work right away.
Q. When was that, witness?
A. I returned to Vardoe on the 19th November, and there the Norwegian agencies had already started work who had come over from England.
Q. Witness, on the basis of these investigations you made, what did you find out about those people who had escaped into the mountains? Did many people die?
A. The people who had escaped from the burned down villages to the mountains had made great efforts to build houses. Winter should have started at that time already, but in that year autumn was very long.
