Q. I beg your pardon. I mean now, when Greece was evacuated. Were there any orders from higher agencies?
A. In August and September -- I believe the more important date was September -- we received an order which I remember well. I don't quite know who issued it. I think it came from the Army Group but the OKW may have been the last instance that issued it. To the best of my recollection it was issued by Army Group E in Salonika and it concerned the evacuation of Greece.
Q. And what was provided in this order?
A. If one had adhered strictly to this order Athens would have become a mass of ruins. It had been ordered that not only the stocks which belonged to the German Armed Forces, supply goods, et cetera, be destroyed, but also everything which was of vital importance for the continuation of a war by the Allies in Greece. All depots were to be blown up, all mills were to be blown up, all military buildings were to be exploded. Amongst others I received from a major Schenk of Army Group E two days before we withdrew -- that must have been around the 10th of October, 1944 -- the order -- I received this order personally and I remember it very well -- to transport away the printing presses on which the Greek currency, the drachmen, was printed and in case that it was not possible to transport it away, to destroy the machines as well as the buildings which harbored them.
Q. How was this order carried out in the area of the 68th Corps.
A. I discussed this order in great detail with General Felmy. He told me at the time -- which I remember very clearly indeed -- that the order must under no circumstances be carried out in the form in which it had been given. The warehouses on my order, and this order was initiated by General Felmy, were not destroyed. If anything was destroyed that was not done on our order. The printing shops and the printing presses were not destroyed.
Q. Not even transported away?
A. No, they were extremely heavy. They weighed several tons and we could not transport them. Seen from a practical and factual point of view, the whole order was ignored. Two days before the end, again on order of General Felmy, I made every effort to save the electricity plant of Athens. This again was initiated by General Felmy.
Q. And what was the situation there?
A. I shall come to that in a few moments. It was not possible to save the electricity plant altogether because there were several agencies which issued orders, as is unfortunately customary with the German Armed Forces, but the electricity distribution was only paralyzed for the moment, to the best of my knowledge, and shortly afterwards was usable again.
Q. And what happened to all the supplies which you had there, the food stocks, the clothing stocks, et cetera? What happened to all those?
A. Some time before I had had discussions with the representative of the International Red Cross, a man by the name of von Glutz, a Swiss. At the time when I had these discussions the evacuation order had not even been received but both of us had realized that the end of the German occupation period in Greece was close. We wanted to spare the Greek population the effects of this last bitter end. Together with this gentleman and with a man by the name of Sandstroem who, to the best of my knowledge, plays a part now in the Committee for the Division of Palestine, in connection with these two gentlemen and by order of General Felmy, I put at his disposal the stocks which we had for distribution to the relief for the suffering Greek population.
Q. Can you roughly tell us how much that was?
A. Shortly before this I received a letter from Athens from a Swedish national, Bengt Helger, and he informed me that there were thousands of tons of foodstuffs imported from Germany. If one takes into consideration what food stocks were destroyed in the chaos which followed our withdrawal, I believe it was quite a considerable amount which was left behind by us in Greece for the benefit of the suffering Greek population. I made the arrangements with Mr. Sandstroem in writing at that time and I was further informed that the commanding general of the Allied troops, the British General Scobie, had recognized the arrangements made between me and the International Red Cross. The actual words said in French, "La validitee d'agrement fut reconnue par le General Scobie".
Q. Will you please translate it?
THE INTERPRETER: The validity is recognized on the part of General Scobie.
A. The translation is a bit difficult for me, but it says approximately, the validity of this agreement was recognized by General Scobie. Beyond that I put at the disposal of the Red Cross Diesel motors, shipping parts, spare parts and other things which the Red Cross sold in a big auction to those who offered most for them.
Q. How did it happen that apart from clothing and foodstuffs with which you had to deal in your official capacity, you could also dispose of those commodities and pass them on to the Red Cross?
A. With the end of the German rule in Greece in the fall of 1944, the chief quartermaster branch in Athens and the other German military agencies in Athens were evacuated from Greece and received the order to withdraw.
Q. Approximately how many such agencies were there?
A. I don't think anybody managed to find out in Athens exactly how many there were.
Q. What is your guess?
A. I am convinced that the military commander and also the local headquarters did not know all the individual military agencies. I believe the only person who, at the end of this involved situation, knew all the individual agencies was myself, because I was the man to whom they had to come when they wanted something to eat. I counted on one occasion 180.
Q. You mean official agencies?
A. Yes, 180 official agencies. There were any amount of representatives of the OKW and the SD and goodness knows what other representatives, and we left everything behind in order to be able to safely retreat and get home. We furthermore were very unfortunate in falling heir to the whole chaos and to have to work with it, and that is how I got to know all these many agencies and we can well imagine how involved the channels of command were. Everybody received orders from goodness only knows whom and that only increased the chaos.
Q. By the way, what happened to the gold stocks of the Bank of Greece?
A. When the Embassy left Athens the director of the Reichsbank, Hahn -
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honor please, I don't think this man is qualified to talk about that. He has testified that he has been concerned only with supply matters. Now, we are getting into matters concerning finance.
THE PRESIDENT: The objection will be sustained unless the witness can be qualified to show his knowledge, personal knowledge of the facts which are sought to be brought out by the interrogation.
Q. By Dr. Mueller-Torgow) Can you give me an answer to my last question on the basis of your own knowledge, witness, about the gold stocks?
A. Yes, yes, I can make statements about that on the basis of my own knowledge. The director of the Reichsbank gave to- me -
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honor please, I'd like to hear his firsthand sources of information, precisely how he got his knowledge in an official capacity, if he knows.
THE PRESIDENT: The objection will be sustained unless it can be shown that this witness has some personal knowledge or the source of his knowledge. Perhaps we ought to got that preliminary information first.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: If your Honor please, I believe the witness was just going to mention these sources.
Q. (By Dr. Mueller-Torgow) Isn't that so?
A. Yes, the director of the Reichsbank, Hahn, who was Reichsbank director with the Embassy of Athens, and he was authorized to- dispose of gold stocks of the German Reichsbank, deposited with the Bank of Athens. Army Group E and this director of the Reichsbank asked us to transport back those gold stocks. I received a telephone call in this connection by the Army Group and I was instructed that the 68th Corps was to be in charge of the transporting back of these gold stocks and this was done in the manner ordered.
Q. Herr Berghofer, if any Greek national had suffered any damage was he compensated by the Germans for it?
A. We gave the instructions for this, the 68th Corps I mean, that the Greeks were, wherever possible, to receive compensations and that they were to be treated as generously as possible in this respect so that the esteem of the German Armed Forces in Greece should be raised.
THE PRESIDENT: We will take our morning recess at this time.
(Recess was taken. )
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Courtroom will please take their seats.
The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. Witness, when you belonged to the staff of General Felmy, were you also in personal social contact with him?
A. Yes, I often met General Felmy socially.
Q. On which opportunity, for instance?
A. Well, I was very interested in playing a game of cards called Skat and General Felmy also like doing this, too, and that is the reason -
Q. And therefore, you think you can judge General Felmy as a man and as a soldier, as long as you were together with him? Would you please, therefore, do this?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Your Honor, I don't believe he should be allowed to give a personal opinion of the defendant. I think the same with regard to the ruling made by the Tribunal yesterday. He can only talk about General Felmy's reputation in the community.
THE PRESIDENT: Sustained.
Perhaps I should amplify on this ruling, Dr. MuellerTorgow. You can ask this witness if he knows the reputation of the defendant in the community in which this particular incident occurred as to certain characteristics and if he knows he may testify as to that fact but you should limit it to that.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. Witness, what was General Felmy's reputation amongst the officers of his staff and generally amongst his soldiers as far as you know?
A. General Felmy had an excellent reputation with his soldiers and with his officers. He was a kind of father to his soldiers and his officers. On this occasion, I would like to quote a few examples. In autumn 1942, Corporal Bohner from the munition detachment of the Corps headquarters sent a letter to an acquaintance or to a relation, which was censored, and to be followed by a court martial.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honor, please, what the witness is now testifying is about matters of which he has no personal knowledge. I believe he can discuss the reputation of the defendant as a fact in the community but I don't believe he should be permitted to give specific examples.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: Do you know this from your own knowledge?
MR. BERGHOFER: Yes, from my own knowledge.
THE PRESIDENT: Objection will be overruled under the circumstances.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
A. General Felmy did not carry out the court martial against Corporal Bohner but he was degraded one rank lower and the whole matter then lapsed. In addition, I would like to quote the case of Captain Rowolt. This Captain was formerly owner of the famous Rowolt Publishing Company. He had issued a proclamation in favor of Max Hoeltz, a communist leader in Germany, and signed this proclamation together with other German intellectuals. This affair in 1941 or 1942, I don't know the exact year, was taken against him in the Corps headquarters 287. Three harsh letters were needed from the OKW until General Felmy at last sent Captain Rowolt to Berlin. The last letter was, as far as I remember, signed by Keitel.
Q. And, in conclusion, I would like to ask you, witness, was General Felmy, as one says, a wild National Socialist?
A. In the staff everything went on very comradely and there was a very friendly atmosphere. The officers spoke quite openly about political events and about the prospects for victory in which only very few believed. Strong comments were made, especially with regard to the Commander-in-chief. The ADC, Lieutenant Seyfried, was one of the best impersonators of Hitler and he made the Fuehrer look ridiculous within a large circle and, of course, the General know about these things, but he did not intervene. The effects you can imagine. For these reasons I did not get the impression that the General was a National Socialist Officer.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Are there other defense counsel who wish to interrogate this witness?
(None indicated)
You may cross examine, Mr. Fenstermacher.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:Thank you your Honor.
Q. Mr. Berghofer, your duties as an administrative officer on the staff of the 68th Corps were primarily concerned with supply, were they not?
A. Yes.
Q. You never saw any orders or reports dealing with reprisal measures?
A. No.
Q. You considered reprisal measures tactical matters which were outside your jurisdiction?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you say that General Felmy always obeyed orders of his superiors - of OKW and of Army Group F and E, for example - or did he sometimes disobey them?
A. In my sphere of tasks, General Felmy did not carry out the orders of Army Group E.
Q. Now, this scourched earth policy that was ordered. Do you know who ordered that? Was it Field Marshal Weichs, or.....
A. As far as I can remember, it was Army Group E. I was also phoned by Army Group E on behalf of General Loehr and I was told to carry out these orders of Army Group E as far as they concerned my administrative area, and as far as I remember, one, two or three times it was Major Schenk who was the fight hand of General Loehr.
Q. The fixing of roads and the prevention of starvation and holding down of inflation, there were certainly military self-interest motives which governed in those spheres. Isn't that so? You didn't simply take those kind of measures out of love for the Greeks, did you?
A. The measures were, of course, mainly carried out for the Wehrmacht but they always burned out to be for the benefit of the Greek population and I can remember measures which even tried to put the Wehrmacht into a better light. Measures of this kind were ordered. In general, one can say that General Felmy was very pro-Greek.
Q. Military necessity was the prime motive in this whole sphere, was it not?
A. Of course, that was always the motive but, of course, something was always done at the same time for the Greeks.
Q. Now, you left certain things behind at the time of the evacuation of Athens. That too was done out of military necessity because you couldn't take them all with you. Isn't that so?
A. No, we left them behind -- firstly, yes, correctly, because we couldn't take them with us but, secondly, we didn't destroy anything in order to help the Greek.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: No further questions, Your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. MUELLER TORGOW (Defense Counsel for defendant Felmy):
Q. Witness, do you know the term "executive power"?
A. I can't remember this term at the moment.
Q. As supply officer did you have anything to do with this term?
A. No.
Q. Did you have anything to do with tactical affairs?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Your Honor, I object to that as being without the scope of cross examination.
THE PRESIDENT: At the risk of ....I would rather do it the other way. The objection will be overruled. You may proceed. Limit it as much as possible though.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. You said you only had to do with supply tasks?
A. Yes, and at the end with the evacuation of Greece. There can be different opinions as to whether that was a tactical event or not.
Q. Therefore, you did not have anything to do with tasks concerning executive powers nor tactical matters?
A. No.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: I take it there's no further questioning on behalf of either the defense or the prosecution?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I have no further questions, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness may be excused.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: With the permission of the Tribunal, I now call the next witness. Joachim Lange.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honor pleases, I don't want to be technical but the twenty-four hour rule has not been observed as far as regards the notification of this witness. I waive any objection that I might have, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: The witness may be called. I think counsel should guard against my breach of this rule though in the future so that we may not be embarrassed by this question being raised later.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: Your Honor, I think this matter has cropped up before, when the Prosecution knows for some time that this witness would be brought in the case of General Relay. The applications first go to the prosecution and then they go to the Tribunal.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: In that regard, your Honor, I should like to point out that we receive many applications on the part of the defense for witnesses. We approve those as a matter of course that the witness will be brought here and they may interrogate him. Of course, we have no idea. no knowledge of which of those many witnesses who are brought here will be called to the witness stand. It is with respect to their being put on the witness stand that the twenty-four hour rule is to be observed.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: Your Honor, I would like to add that on the first day of the Felmy case I announced this witness.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I don't want to seen to be argumentative, but I have no knowledge that I can recall that this witness was to have been called, but, as I say, I waive any right - my rights in that regard
THE PRESIDENT: If this witness gave notice, which the record will show whether he did or did not, that will satisfy the situation. You may proceed, under the circumstances.
JOACHIM LANGE, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
THE PRESIDENT: The witness will raise his right hand and be sworn.
I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. Witness, would you please tell the Tribunal your full name?
A. Joachim Lange.
Q. When were you born?
A. On the 27th of April, 1901.
Q. Where were you born?
A. In Jeschewo.
Q. Where is that?
A. In the District of Schwitz.
Q. Where?
A. Formerly West Prussia:
Q. Where do you live now?
A. Munsterlager, Lueneburgerstrasse 13, Hanover.
Q. And what is your profession?
A. Priest.
Q. Witness, please describe quite briefly your military employments during the last war as a soldier and as a priest?
A. On the 15th of August, 1939, I was drafted. I was in the antiaircraft during the first years of the war. Since the 5th of February 1942, I was an Army chaplain.
Q. What does that mean? Army Chaplain?
A. As a chaplain, I was concerned with the spiritual needs of the Wehrmacht. Since the 10th of March, 1942, I was hospital chaplain in Salonika with the field hospital detachment 3602. Later on, since the 1st of April, 1942, until the 1st of April, 1943, I was divisional chaplain for the 117th Light Infantry Division which was in Greece on the Pelopones.
Q. You belonged to the divisional staff?
A. Yes.
Q. And where was this staff at the time?
A. The divisional staff was stationed at the end near Corinthia.
Q. What was your sphere of work as divisional chaplain of the 117th Light Infantry Division?
A. To begin with, to care for the spiritual needs of the Wehrmacht in the division, and, furthermore, to care for the spiritual needs of those units who had no divisional chaplain. Since I was the only divisional chaplain on the Pelopones for a long time, and since there were approximately three divisions with war strength, during occasional visits in Summer, 1943, to Veccina with General Felmy, I was officially asked to take over the whole Pelopones area and to care for the spiritual needs of the troops there and to hold services.
Q. Were you often officially on trips in the Pelopones?
A. I was traveling almost the whole time. In the Pelopones, there is scarcely one town and very few villages which I did not know.
Q. On these trips did you hear anything about the band position in the Pelopones? Did you hear anything about this or didn't you hear anything about this?
A. In 1942, I came to Greece. At that time it was still relatively peaceful in Greece. As far as I remember, the unrest started around Autumn-Summer 1943 and reached its climax in Spring, 1944. Sabotage acts were carried out against the railways, bridges were blown up, supply units were victims of surprise attacks and were shot up, individual cars were attacked, trains were shot at, and terror acts were also carried out against the Greek civilian population, who were often terrorized by the bands and felt to be threatened and terrorized, often asked the occupation troops for help.
I know of cases in which Greek civilians were kidnapped by the bands and I saw personally, while I was a prisoner of the bands, that even women and children were taken away by the bands into the mountains and detained.
Q. Did the German occupation troops, according to your experience, look after peace and order in the Pelopones or did they provoke these band attacks?
A. The Last thing you said, certainly not. The provocations were, as far as I could observe this and I haven't heard of anything to the contrary - these provocations were exclusively made by the bands who, every time, as far as I can remember, started the matter.
Q. Yes. Well, then, what was the attitude of the individual soldier to reprisal measures? You saw quite a lot in the Pelopones and you talked a lot to soldiers and officers about this. What was the attitude of the troops?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If Your Honor please, I submit that counsel should not lead the witness by telling him that he went around and talked to the troops about these things. He should ask the witness if that's what he did, first.
THE PRESIDENT: Sustained. It's leading.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: Excuse me. The witness said himself that he went around a lot and that is why I formulated the question in this way.
THE PRESIDENT: Proceed. Avoid putting the proposed answer into the witnesses mouth.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. Did you talk with officers and soldiers about reprisal measures?
A. Frequently.
Q. And what did the officers and soldiers tell you about reprisal measures?
A. I was able to observe, and it is also quite understandable from a psychological point of view, that after every fresh attack in which sixty, sometimes even seventy, comrades were suddenly murdered, the excitement among the troops rose considerably. Therefore, it is very understandable that the soldiers thought it justified for reprisal measures to be carried out.
Q. Did you also talk with members of the Greek civilian population?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you speak Greek?
A. I have studied ancient Greek and also some modern Greek.
Q. You could make yourself understood?
A. Yes, I know enough to make myself understood.
Q. Well, then, would you please answer the question.
A. Now and again I spoke with the Greek civilian population about this question and I received the impression from these conversations that the Greek civilian population.......
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If Your Honor please, the witness is testifying as to certain conclusions which he has reached. I think he should limit himself to testifying just to facts what he saw and what he heard.
THE PRESIDENT: Sustained.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. What did the Greeks tell you about this subject?
A. They told me that they would be very glad if the German troops left Greece again but, at the moment, they realized that the German occupation was the lesser evil compared with an occupation of the Pelopones by the bands.
Q. Who was the divisional commander of the 117th Light Infantry Division?
A. At that time, the divisional commander was General von Le Suire.
Q. And how was General Le Suire regarded by the officers of the staff to which you belonged and what opinion did the officers of the division have about him as a leader of troops as far as you know? How was he judged?
A. The officers of the staff, as well as of the division, regarded General Le Suire as a very competent general; as a general who, in a military respect, was able to achieve something.
Q. And did the ordinary soldiers like him or not?
A. The soldiers didn't like him as much because he was well known to be a very strict superior officer.
Court No. V, Case No, VII.
Q. Witness, do you know about the so-called Operation Kalavrita?
A. More from hearsay than from personal experience and knowledge.
Q. And does the same apply to the reprisal measures carried out by Germany?
A. I only know that reprisal measures were carried out by the Germans following this attack in Kalavrita. In what ratio they were carried out I don't know.
Q. Do you remember what the officers of the divisional staff said at that time about these reprisal measures?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honor please, I think the witness should first be qualified to speak on this matter.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: Your Honor, the witness was a member of the divisional staff and, as a result, he was often together with the officers of the staff in messes, etc.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I don't believe Dr. Mueller-Torgow is competent to say what the activities of the witness were. Pure testimony on the part of counsel is that the witness was in the Casino and talked with officers of the division staff.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: Your Honor, the witness himself has stated that he belonged to the divisional staff of the 117th Light Infantry Division.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honor please, I submit that is not enough for him to say what the officers of the staff thought about the Kalavrita Operation.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, in order to clarify the situation you might interrogate the witness as to what knowledge he has or what he learned from other sources or what information he gained from certain individuals. In that way, you can avoid the hearsay phase of it. I suggest you first qualify the witness along that line. To that extent, the objection will be sustained.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. Witness, you said that you belonged to the staff of the 117th Light Infantry Division. Did you meet other officers of this staff and if so when?
A. I met the officers of this staff frequently, every time I went to the mess. We also met outside of the trips which I made.
Q. And then what did the officers of the staff tell you about the Operation Kalavrita?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honor please, that is complete hearsay. If counsel wants to prove what the officers thought about the Kalavrita Operation, they should be brought here to testify and not this witness.
THE PRESIDENT: The objection will be sustained.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. Witness, which connection then did you have with this affair of Kalavrita in your capacity as divisional chaplain?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your honor please, the witness has already testified to that, that he knows nothing about this Kalavrita operation of his own knowledge and all he knows is what he heard, and I submit that counsel is bound by his answers.
THE PRESIDENT: He is now asking him what connection or what information he personally had. He may answer that limited question.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: Your honor, I wanted to get at something else. I wanted now to ask him what connection he had as divisional chaplain with the affair afterwards.
THE PRESIDENT: You may ask that question.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. Well then, did you come into any contact with this affair after the murder of the German soldiers?
A. One day before Christmas 1943, 70 soldiers killed in this attack were to be buried by me. This was in Tripolis and also to be buried were 12 other dead who had been killed traveling from Tripolis to Sparta so that one day before Christmas at this burial in 1943 altogether 82 corpses were buried, as far as I can still remember.
Q. Did you see the bodies of the soldiers killed in Kalavrita?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. Because they were already in the coffins.
Q. Did you talk with people who had seen the corpses?
A. The corpses were found by our reconnaissance units near Kalavrita and officers and soldiers of the reconnaissance said they were mutilated.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: The witness is now talking about matters of which he has no personal knowledge. He can't possibly know of his own knowledge where the bodies were found or by what unit.
THE PRESIDENT: Your objection being, I take it, that it is hearsay?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: That is correct, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Sustained.
BY MR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. Witness, during your trips to the Pelopennesus, how did you travel? What kind of transportation did you use?
A. I was able to use the trains which ran according to plan as far as one can speak of "running according to plan" because of the danger of the position. I sometimes used armed escort trains because isolated travel was much too dangerous and it was also prohibited by the division because of this danger.
Q. And during these trips, did you ever come into contact with partisans?