MR. FENSTERMACHER: Thank you, Your Honor.
RE-CROSS EXAMINATION DR. GUENTHER ALTENBURG BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:
Q Dr. Altenburg, you say that the Italians were in charge of the occupation of Athens during 1941 and '42, and until SeptemBer 1943. Are you able to explain why the hostages mentioned in the document which I showed you on cross-examination, hostages said to have been executed on the 5th of June, 1942, were executed by a German firing squad?
A Because the protection of the railway lines was in German hands. The railway line was under the protection of the German Military agencies which after all, were first in the country, and the protection of railways around Athens was in the hands of German military agencies.
Q Did you find Schimana understanding and approachable?
A Yes, that was the reputation which he had in contrast to his predecessor.
Q You have been in Nurnberg since April of this year, Dr. Altenburg. Have you been interrogated by the Prosecution in connection with cases other than this one since that time.
A Which one do you mean?
Q Can't you answer my question? Do you know whether or not you have been interrogated in connection with matters other than this case? The Foreign Office case which is now Case No. 11, for example?
A Yes, I believe I stated yesterday that I have been arrested because I can be a witness in the Foreign Office case also.
Q Did you ever ask for counsel since you have been in Nurnberg?
A I have contacted Dr. Mueller-Torgow whom I got to know through an affidavit, and I said if it becomes necessary I would like to call him.
Q Did you ever ask any representative of the office of the Chief of Counsel for War Crimes for permission to contact counsel in your own behalf?
A No, I know from similar cases that that is not admissible.
Q Did you ever ask, on your part, for counsel?
A No, this did not become acute in my case because in June, Dr. Kempner told me I would be discharged again quite soon.
Q You said that Mr. Rapp interrogated you, and that Mr. Rapp only interrogate in connection with this case. You don't know what cases Mr. Rapp interrogates in connection with, do you? For all you know, he interrogates in connection with every case in this building?
A I know Mr. Rapp only as an interrogator for this particular court, or for the case of the Southeast Generale, if you want me to put it that way.
Q But you do not know what Mr. Rapp's other interrogation activities are do you?
A No, I don't know that.
DR. WEISBERGER: No further questions, Your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION DR. GUENTHER ALTENBURG BY DR. LATERNSER:
Q Dr. Altenburg, is it know to you that those arrested in this prison here are not allowed to talk to counsel until they have received the indictment?
A that is very well known.
A Yes, it is.
DR. LATERNSER: Thank you.
I have no further questions.
THE COURT: Are there any further questions?
DR. MUELLER_TORGOW: If it please the Tribunal, I would ask for this witness to be dismissed and I ask to be allowed to call the next witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Before this witness is passed, I will ask the members of the Tribunal if they have any statement to make.
I have this statement to make for the record, and it is made only on my own behalf, for which other members of this Tribunal have no responsibility.
In the proceedings yesterday afternoon, it was stated that there was a possibility that this witness might be extradited for trial in Greece, the suggestion was made that because of that fact there was a possibility that he could not or should not be released.
It is my personal request, and only a request, that it may carry such weight as my personal position bears, that before this witness is extradited, if he is extradited, he be given the opportunity to have counsel who shall appeal to the highest authority in Germany, and to such other higher authorities in the United States as may be justified under the circumstances.
That is all.
The witness may be excused.
ROBERT BERGHOFER, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
THE PRESIDENT: The witness will raise his right hand and be sworn; repeat this oath after me:
I swear by God, the Almighty, the Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
THE PRESIDENT: You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION ROBERT BERGHOFER BY DR. MUELLER_TORGOW:
Q Witness, will you please state your full name?
A Dr. Robert Berghofer.
Q When and where were you born?
A I was born in Nurnberg on the 13th day of April, 1909.
Q Where do you live?
A Nurnberg, Kressenstreet 4
Q What is your profession?
A I am a former Army Administrative Officer.
Q Herr Berghofer how does it happen that you know General Felmy?
A In May, 1942, I was called into the staff of General Felmy. That was approximately; I had before that worked for him a month before that on his special staff in Greece, and I was then assigned to transform this special staff F into the Special Command 287th in Berlin. From July until September, 1942, I worked on the transformation on the staff and of the supply troops under my command.
Then from the end of September 1942, until the beginning of March, 1943, to the best of my recollection, I was in Russia with General Felmy. Then I came back to Berlin to transform this Corps Headquarters 287th into what was later known as the 68th Corps. I remained in Berlin, with interruptions, from the end of March, 1943, until the beginning of July, 1943, when I came back to General Felmy to Greece. I was his Administrative officer, and until the end of the war I remained the Administrative officer of the 68th Corps.
Q For how long, roughly, were you altogether in General Felmy's staff?
A General Felmy left our Corps around Christmas, 1944, so the period was approximately 2½ years.
Q 2½ years?
A 2 to 2½ years. During that period I gained a fairly good picture of General Felmy as a man and as a superior.
Q You said that in May, 1942, you came to his special Staff "F"?
A Yes.
Q Did you immediately have close contact with General Felmy?
A No, not immediately. The General had his office in Athens, and we -
Q Who do we know by "we"?
A The remainder of General Staff F had their offices up in Sunion. General Felmy was simultaneously Commander for Southern Greece, and also Commander of Special Staff F.
Q And when did you come into closer contact with him?
A In Russia, toward the end of September and the beginning of October, 1942.
Q And from then on?
A Constantly until he left.
Q Witness before we will deal with your proper sphere of work, I would like to ask you some general questions because General Felmy has been indicted in this particular connection. Did you, in these 2½ years while you were a member of his staff, at any time learn anything about the fact that he himself ordered reprisal measures of any kind?
A No, I did not learn anything of that sort.
Q Would you have heard about it if it had been the case?
A I doubt that, because that is a purely tactical matter which has nothing to do with my sphere of work in particular, but it might have been possible that I would have heard about it.
Q Did you have frequent contact with other members of the staff?
A Yes.
Q Socially?
A Yes.
Q Would you have heard about it then?
A I think it is probable.
Q Mr. Berghofer you said that you were Corps Administrative Officer; what was your rank in the German Armed Forces?
A Lt. Colonel.
Q I see. What was your sphere of work as administrative Officer for the Corps?
A You mean in Greece, which is discussed here mainly. In Greece, the supplies of the 68th Corps were carried out by Army group E in Salonika. This army group had for this purpose a chief Quartermasters' Department in Athens.
Q What is a Chief Quartermaster's office?
A The Chief Quartermaster is the Quartermaster of the Army Group in Salonika.
Q I mean, what are his tasks?
A The Chief Quartermaster in Salonika had to deal with the total supply in the area of the Army Group E. This Chief Quartermaster as I have stated, had branch office in Athens and here was also an administrative officer, and from here, from this office, the 68th Corps received its distribution of supply. I myself was in charge of the direction and distribution of the stocks, in charge of the Chief Quartermaster branch office. These were concerned with clothing, food, hay, currency and accommodations, etc. all of those things whey were needed by the troops.
Q. In the sphere of supply were there any orders or directives concerning the supply for German soldiers?
A. Yes.
Q. I have in mind particularly the currency restrictions, if you want to discuss that for a moment?
A. There were in Greece, from higher agencies, orders concerning all parts of the Armed Forces and these orders were of a rather decisive nature which restricted the troops to a great extent. These measures on order of General Felmy, at least where our corps was concerned, were carried out vigorously. I may have in mind mainly the living off the land, which was carried out by Army Group E, if it was carried out at all and not by the 68th Corps. It was strictly forbidden, and if excesses occurred, then we sought to make up for it. Agreements existed in this sphere with the International Red Cross and these were always strictly observed by the 68th Corps. General Felmy again and again, on the occasion of oral reports which I gave to him and which took place almost daily, gave me the order and I have always passed on this order that the directives and instructions be adhered to rigorously.
The currency restrictions were of a particularly decisive nature, and the 68th Corps behaved in an exemplary manner. How the other parts of the Armed Forces, Navy, Air Force, let alone the SS, behaved I don't know. In the shops of Athens everything could be bought, starting from beautiful oranges to expensive diamond rings. Everything was there to be had. The military pay of the German soldier was so low that he could hardly buy a few cigarets which were there in abundance.
Q. How did the German soldier receive his pay, what currency?
A. To the best of my recollection, although I don't know it exactly, he received it partly in drachmen and partly in German bonds.
Q. Was it generally the case with the men and the officers?
A. Yes, officers and men.
Q. Herr Berghofer, what in particular was the situation concerning food stocks? Was there plenty of food in the country?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honor please, I object to this testimony as irrelevant and immaterial to the charges made in this indictment. General Felmy has not been indicted for anything in connection with the food supply of Athens
MR. MUELLER-TORGOW: If it please the Tribunal, I am trying to prove that General Felmy issued strict instructions concerning everything his soldiers did to help the Greek population and that in particular he made every effort not to take anything away from the country so that the food could be maintained and that the Greeks should not suffer. I believe that is part of the subject of terrorism which is under discussion here and it is furthermore part of the affidavit.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: The mention of the terrorization plan in the indictment, if your Honor please, is concerned solely with the reprisal measures and the executions of hostages and the concentration camps, deportation of slave labor. It is not concerned at all with the economic conditions which existed in Greece.
PRESIDENT WENNERSTRUM: I take it that part of this at least is preliminary. The objection will be overruled with the suggestion that the examination along this line be limited to matters which are pertinent to the charges which are before the Tribunal. I don't want to limit you, but we have to have some restriction somewhere along the way as to the matters under discussion.
With that suggestion the objection will be overruled.
Q. (By Dr. Mueller-Torgow) Herr Berghofer, I would like to quite briefly discuss with you immediate relief actions which were carried out by order of General Felmy in the interest of the Greek population. Can you make some comments about these?
A. Yes. On order from higher agencies in the Greek area combat commandants were established. Through these officers a certain area of jurisdiction was given completely into the hands of one such commandant. Thus, in the area of the 68th Corps this was the commander of the 117th Light Infantry Division. The consequence of this arrangement was an administrative limitation or isolation of the Peloponnes from the rest of Greece and where channels of command were concerned, it was also cut off from the 68th Corps.
General Felmy in the first discussion which he had immediately after these instructions arrived, informed me to arrange immediately that this administrative isolation should be changed. The danger existed that the civilian population of Athens could no longer receive foodstuffs from the Peloponnes which it needed desperately. I succeeded later in changing this order to the effect that with regard to the supply of Athens from the Peloponnes no change was made. The supply of Athens was given preference to the security of the German troops for it was well known that the tradesmen who traveled to and fro from Athens to the provinces were more or less camouflaged Partisans who transmitted news about the situation in Athens and about measures taken there, back and forth.
Q. In conclusion on this subject, were reads also built for this purpose?
A. Yes, the 68th Corps took a decisive part in the road building on the Peloponnes. Partly they participated in the building and partly they made suggestions. These roads did not only serve a tactical purpose. I would also like to recall all the irrigation measures and the artificial wells which were established by order of the 68th Corps and where the 68th Corps played an important part.
Q. Before that had there been no roads?
A. Yes, there were some roads before that but they were too narrow and insufficient.
Q. Herr Berghofer, let us now deal with that period of time where Greece was evacuated by German troops. At that time had many supply goods been stocked in the country by German military agencies?
A. There were enormous stocks of a fantastic amount in Greece. The plan of the OKW which existed up to then, or rather, of Army Group E in Salonika had been to keep the area stocked up for sixty days and for a military troop of fifty thousand men in the South. Everything concerning foodstuffs and preserves was to be stocked in that country. Furthermore, the troops were to be made so independent that they had everything ready in case they were encircled. Therefore, goods were transported down there, large quantities of iron, instruments, vehicles and masses of that stuff was distributed all over that area.
Q. Were there any orders issued from higher agencies around that date which concerned those supply goods stocked up in that country? What was to happen to these supply goods?
A. These goods were to be kept in readiness for the troops.
Q. I beg your pardon. I mean now, when Greece was evacuated. Were there any orders from higher agencies?
A. In August and September -- I believe the more important date was September -- we received an order which I remember well. I don't quite know who issued it. I think it came from the Army Group but the OKW may have been the last instance that issued it. To the best of my recollection it was issued by Army Group E in Salonika and it concerned the evacuation of Greece.
Q. And what was provided in this order?
A. If one had adhered strictly to this order Athens would have become a mass of ruins. It had been ordered that not only the stocks which belonged to the German Armed Forces, supply goods, et cetera, be destroyed, but also everything which was of vital importance for the continuation of a war by the Allies in Greece. All depots were to be blown up, all mills were to be blown up, all military buildings were to be exploded. Amongst others I received from a major Schenk of Army Group E two days before we withdrew -- that must have been around the 10th of October, 1944 -- the order -- I received this order personally and I remember it very well -- to transport away the printing presses on which the Greek currency, the drachmen, was printed and in case that it was not possible to transport it away, to destroy the machines as well as the buildings which harbored them.
Q. How was this order carried out in the area of the 68th Corps.
A. I discussed this order in great detail with General Felmy. He told me at the time -- which I remember very clearly indeed -- that the order must under no circumstances be carried out in the form in which it had been given. The warehouses on my order, and this order was initiated by General Felmy, were not destroyed. If anything was destroyed that was not done on our order. The printing shops and the printing presses were not destroyed.
Q. Not even transported away?
A. No, they were extremely heavy. They weighed several tons and we could not transport them. Seen from a practical and factual point of view, the whole order was ignored. Two days before the end, again on order of General Felmy, I made every effort to save the electricity plant of Athens. This again was initiated by General Felmy.
Q. And what was the situation there?
A. I shall come to that in a few moments. It was not possible to save the electricity plant altogether because there were several agencies which issued orders, as is unfortunately customary with the German Armed Forces, but the electricity distribution was only paralyzed for the moment, to the best of my knowledge, and shortly afterwards was usable again.
Q. And what happened to all the supplies which you had there, the food stocks, the clothing stocks, et cetera? What happened to all those?
A. Some time before I had had discussions with the representative of the International Red Cross, a man by the name of von Glutz, a Swiss. At the time when I had these discussions the evacuation order had not even been received but both of us had realized that the end of the German occupation period in Greece was close. We wanted to spare the Greek population the effects of this last bitter end. Together with this gentleman and with a man by the name of Sandstroem who, to the best of my knowledge, plays a part now in the Committee for the Division of Palestine, in connection with these two gentlemen and by order of General Felmy, I put at his disposal the stocks which we had for distribution to the relief for the suffering Greek population.
Q. Can you roughly tell us how much that was?
A. Shortly before this I received a letter from Athens from a Swedish national, Bengt Helger, and he informed me that there were thousands of tons of foodstuffs imported from Germany. If one takes into consideration what food stocks were destroyed in the chaos which followed our withdrawal, I believe it was quite a considerable amount which was left behind by us in Greece for the benefit of the suffering Greek population. I made the arrangements with Mr. Sandstroem in writing at that time and I was further informed that the commanding general of the Allied troops, the British General Scobie, had recognized the arrangements made between me and the International Red Cross. The actual words said in French, "La validitee d'agrement fut reconnue par le General Scobie".
Q. Will you please translate it?
THE INTERPRETER: The validity is recognized on the part of General Scobie.
A. The translation is a bit difficult for me, but it says approximately, the validity of this agreement was recognized by General Scobie. Beyond that I put at the disposal of the Red Cross Diesel motors, shipping parts, spare parts and other things which the Red Cross sold in a big auction to those who offered most for them.
Q. How did it happen that apart from clothing and foodstuffs with which you had to deal in your official capacity, you could also dispose of those commodities and pass them on to the Red Cross?
A. With the end of the German rule in Greece in the fall of 1944, the chief quartermaster branch in Athens and the other German military agencies in Athens were evacuated from Greece and received the order to withdraw.
Q. Approximately how many such agencies were there?
A. I don't think anybody managed to find out in Athens exactly how many there were.
Q. What is your guess?
A. I am convinced that the military commander and also the local headquarters did not know all the individual military agencies. I believe the only person who, at the end of this involved situation, knew all the individual agencies was myself, because I was the man to whom they had to come when they wanted something to eat. I counted on one occasion 180.
Q. You mean official agencies?
A. Yes, 180 official agencies. There were any amount of representatives of the OKW and the SD and goodness knows what other representatives, and we left everything behind in order to be able to safely retreat and get home. We furthermore were very unfortunate in falling heir to the whole chaos and to have to work with it, and that is how I got to know all these many agencies and we can well imagine how involved the channels of command were. Everybody received orders from goodness only knows whom and that only increased the chaos.
Q. By the way, what happened to the gold stocks of the Bank of Greece?
A. When the Embassy left Athens the director of the Reichsbank, Hahn -
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honor please, I don't think this man is qualified to talk about that. He has testified that he has been concerned only with supply matters. Now, we are getting into matters concerning finance.
THE PRESIDENT: The objection will be sustained unless the witness can be qualified to show his knowledge, personal knowledge of the facts which are sought to be brought out by the interrogation.
Q. By Dr. Mueller-Torgow) Can you give me an answer to my last question on the basis of your own knowledge, witness, about the gold stocks?
A. Yes, yes, I can make statements about that on the basis of my own knowledge. The director of the Reichsbank gave to- me -
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honor please, I'd like to hear his firsthand sources of information, precisely how he got his knowledge in an official capacity, if he knows.
THE PRESIDENT: The objection will be sustained unless it can be shown that this witness has some personal knowledge or the source of his knowledge. Perhaps we ought to got that preliminary information first.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: If your Honor please, I believe the witness was just going to mention these sources.
Q. (By Dr. Mueller-Torgow) Isn't that so?
A. Yes, the director of the Reichsbank, Hahn, who was Reichsbank director with the Embassy of Athens, and he was authorized to- dispose of gold stocks of the German Reichsbank, deposited with the Bank of Athens. Army Group E and this director of the Reichsbank asked us to transport back those gold stocks. I received a telephone call in this connection by the Army Group and I was instructed that the 68th Corps was to be in charge of the transporting back of these gold stocks and this was done in the manner ordered.
Q. Herr Berghofer, if any Greek national had suffered any damage was he compensated by the Germans for it?
A. We gave the instructions for this, the 68th Corps I mean, that the Greeks were, wherever possible, to receive compensations and that they were to be treated as generously as possible in this respect so that the esteem of the German Armed Forces in Greece should be raised.
THE PRESIDENT: We will take our morning recess at this time.
(Recess was taken. )
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Courtroom will please take their seats.
The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. Witness, when you belonged to the staff of General Felmy, were you also in personal social contact with him?
A. Yes, I often met General Felmy socially.
Q. On which opportunity, for instance?
A. Well, I was very interested in playing a game of cards called Skat and General Felmy also like doing this, too, and that is the reason -
Q. And therefore, you think you can judge General Felmy as a man and as a soldier, as long as you were together with him? Would you please, therefore, do this?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Your Honor, I don't believe he should be allowed to give a personal opinion of the defendant. I think the same with regard to the ruling made by the Tribunal yesterday. He can only talk about General Felmy's reputation in the community.
THE PRESIDENT: Sustained.
Perhaps I should amplify on this ruling, Dr. MuellerTorgow. You can ask this witness if he knows the reputation of the defendant in the community in which this particular incident occurred as to certain characteristics and if he knows he may testify as to that fact but you should limit it to that.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
Q. Witness, what was General Felmy's reputation amongst the officers of his staff and generally amongst his soldiers as far as you know?
A. General Felmy had an excellent reputation with his soldiers and with his officers. He was a kind of father to his soldiers and his officers. On this occasion, I would like to quote a few examples. In autumn 1942, Corporal Bohner from the munition detachment of the Corps headquarters sent a letter to an acquaintance or to a relation, which was censored, and to be followed by a court martial.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If your Honor, please, what the witness is now testifying is about matters of which he has no personal knowledge. I believe he can discuss the reputation of the defendant as a fact in the community but I don't believe he should be permitted to give specific examples.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW: Do you know this from your own knowledge?
MR. BERGHOFER: Yes, from my own knowledge.
THE PRESIDENT: Objection will be overruled under the circumstances.
BY DR. MUELLER-TORGOW:
A. General Felmy did not carry out the court martial against Corporal Bohner but he was degraded one rank lower and the whole matter then lapsed. In addition, I would like to quote the case of Captain Rowolt. This Captain was formerly owner of the famous Rowolt Publishing Company. He had issued a proclamation in favor of Max Hoeltz, a communist leader in Germany, and signed this proclamation together with other German intellectuals. This affair in 1941 or 1942, I don't know the exact year, was taken against him in the Corps headquarters 287. Three harsh letters were needed from the OKW until General Felmy at last sent Captain Rowolt to Berlin. The last letter was, as far as I remember, signed by Keitel.
Q. And, in conclusion, I would like to ask you, witness, was General Felmy, as one says, a wild National Socialist?
A. In the staff everything went on very comradely and there was a very friendly atmosphere. The officers spoke quite openly about political events and about the prospects for victory in which only very few believed. Strong comments were made, especially with regard to the Commander-in-chief. The ADC, Lieutenant Seyfried, was one of the best impersonators of Hitler and he made the Fuehrer look ridiculous within a large circle and, of course, the General know about these things, but he did not intervene. The effects you can imagine. For these reasons I did not get the impression that the General was a National Socialist Officer.
DR. MUELLER-TORGOW I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Are there other defense counsel who wish to interrogate this witness?
(None indicated)
You may cross examine, Mr. Fenstermacher.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. FENSTERMACHER:Thank you your Honor.
Q. Mr. Berghofer, your duties as an administrative officer on the staff of the 68th Corps were primarily concerned with supply, were they not?
A. Yes.
Q. You never saw any orders or reports dealing with reprisal measures?
A. No.
Q. You considered reprisal measures tactical matters which were outside your jurisdiction?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you say that General Felmy always obeyed orders of his superiors - of OKW and of Army Group F and E, for example - or did he sometimes disobey them?
A. In my sphere of tasks, General Felmy did not carry out the orders of Army Group E.
Q. Now, this scourched earth policy that was ordered. Do you know who ordered that? Was it Field Marshal Weichs, or.....
A. As far as I can remember, it was Army Group E. I was also phoned by Army Group E on behalf of General Loehr and I was told to carry out these orders of Army Group E as far as they concerned my administrative area, and as far as I remember, one, two or three times it was Major Schenk who was the fight hand of General Loehr.
Q. The fixing of roads and the prevention of starvation and holding down of inflation, there were certainly military self-interest motives which governed in those spheres. Isn't that so? You didn't simply take those kind of measures out of love for the Greeks, did you?
A. The measures were, of course, mainly carried out for the Wehrmacht but they always burned out to be for the benefit of the Greek population and I can remember measures which even tried to put the Wehrmacht into a better light. Measures of this kind were ordered. In general, one can say that General Felmy was very pro-Greek.
Q. Military necessity was the prime motive in this whole sphere, was it not?
A. Of course, that was always the motive but, of course, something was always done at the same time for the Greeks.
Q. Now, you left certain things behind at the time of the evacuation of Athens. That too was done out of military necessity because you couldn't take them all with you. Isn't that so?
A. No, we left them behind -- firstly, yes, correctly, because we couldn't take them with us but, secondly, we didn't destroy anything in order to help the Greek.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: No further questions, Your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. MUELLER TORGOW (Defense Counsel for defendant Felmy):